E42: China's tech crackdown, CRISPR breakthrough, practical climate change solutions & more
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Hey, everybody, everybody, welcome to another episode of the all in podcast with us today, the dictator himself to mop up and the rain man David sax, i'm jaco and the queen of kinda quit the show up here. quit. Quit the show.

I think I think you quit. So we're looking for a science person if you know anybody, email or science guy at the all in podcast I com, if you want to apply for the science position here. No, uh, he could not make IT.

He was a bracing. He's moving. He's moving. I guess we can say that without really his privacy, but he's he's not going to be able with what we do to show anyway is so much going on.

Uh, and I think we should start with this. Do we want to start with the covered stuff again for the third episode? Or do you want to sort .

of china and back into .

coffee the cover? I IT quickly, because I think as much as the audience complained about IT, we got a lot of comment saying why you talk about coffee so much. We were ahead of the curve.

I'm predicting the sole new delta wave. Now we told people all was coming. I think IT was a useful service that people might not want to hear that. But I was, I think I would say, were probably two .

weeks ahead of the year. I think that we've gotten a couple things actually right a couple weeks ahead of other people.

Yeah so yeah, I mean, IT was pretty obvious that this was going to race through the places that had low vaccination. And having the breakthrough cases is I don't think anybody anticipated that. And the thing we did IT yeah .

over last week on twitter, i'm seeing this big debate on whether vaccine people can spread the delta version and more like guys. And you see the show two weeks ago, we covered this. I got IT.

I was vaccinated. I got IT for someone who was vaccinated. This is no you know altiera has slipped the vaccine.

IT still prevents the most serious cases. Generally speaking, we need to see as a spectrum protection rather than completely binary. But uh yeah absolutely. You can get IT and pass IT on if you're vaccinated like we know that. And we said, we told the audience three weeks ago.

the other thing we predicted was you know that this is gonna be incredibly disruptive and it's gonna create another debate of lock and potential lockdowns and mass Mandates. And most of all, we discussed, and we know we have to, I think, a pretty viBrant debate between all of us about under what circumstances is your decision to not get vaccinated impact everybody else visit the petry dish of the next very that's coming.

Uh, hopefully that will be less uh, deadly, less contagious, which is tends to be how these things go. But we also predicted some people are just going to start requiring vaccines, vaccine cards. And we we mentioned what's happening in france. And I know what examples you've seen this week. Yeah.

I thought last week when you made vaccines passports to the main issue, I thought, well as but this way I think that was actually turned to be great moderation because what has been the big issue all over the world since the last episode? Same passports. You saw IT with enough toy bennet in israel. They are taking any of the vaccine haz and see there is nine million people, that country, eight million of vaccine. They're told in the last million you have got to go get vaccinated he has laid down the law saying enough is enough.

A billion people gotten vaccinated um IT works and for the last million of you who have gone back to that, if you want to attend any function with more than one hundred people, if you want to go to synagogue, if you want to go to a sports game, if you want to go to the mall, you have to be vacated or you are going get tested that day at your own expense. Um everywhere you go it's can be so there's going to make you a real pain of the actin. You get vicinity.

You then separately had rogier good dell basically doing the same thing in the nfl, saying to players, you will first, all all the coaches, sufficit bx stated there was an anti back coach who got fire. And then they don't have much power with the players because the players have a union, but get all set to them. Listen, if you don't get vaccinated, you're going to get tested every day that you go to work.

And if the team if there's an outbreak on the team and you guys miss a game, you're going going to lose all your salary we're not going to put up with. Apparently there's a game last year during the um during a copy where was a ravens stealers game and half of the one of those was the raven half the first string was out with covet or they were an isolation protocol because they were around players. You know obviously, if you're in a locker room, one player gets everyones to be exposed, right? So IT turned out really like one of the the worst games that the nfl put on last year and get all saying we're not going to put our product like that anymore.

If you are the reason why the team misses a game, guess what? You and all your teammates are going to lose your salary. And this is only seventeen games in N, F, L.

Season, is talking about real, real money. So you have good dell doing that. And now you have facebook and google basically coming out saying, in order to go back to the office, you have to be vaccinated.

Now it's a little bit of the soft. It's sort of more of the they aren't fesi f of all the globe because they are offering testing. So if you don't get vaccinated, you can get a test at every time you go to the office.

I don't like israel, which is making you pay for IT. Facebook and google are so rich are going to pay for IT. So basically what you're seeing here is that government .

is not in the us. By the Mandate, uh, federal workers um otherwise you have to get tested weekly. This is beyond now debate. I think the funny thing is the republicans, I think somewhere along the way realized, oh my god, we're going to lose the mitter elections. They have found way to find a single modality and behavior to steal defeat from the jaws of Victory.

You know I think that the republicans were probably trending to basically win back the house, and now I don't think that's the case. Um and you have a bunch of these um red take governors who are literally flipping their shit right now, trying to figure out how to get their folks vcs ated many these people may not even be able to vote coming terms because there are they going to be there is still sick. I mean, uh it's it's uh we've learned a lot um and at this point you're being left with folks there again, there are people who do IT for religious reasons.

I get IT. There are people that you know organized of like live off the great and live by themselves. I get them to. But the folks that want to be attacks on the system or use public resources, I don't understand and um they're basically going to get single out and discriminated against. And uh they .

Carried on the stick method here I think is gonna because we saw a bunch of people sign up to get vaccine in france once said you a cafe or a bar. And I think that a lot of the people who are not accent ated are probably enjoying going out and having a life. They admire the restaurant tour in new york from unions or k cafe and and grammar item, one of the most famous restaurant tours of all time. Announced cnbc this morning that he'll be requiring vaccines for all staff and customers. What do we think of that restaurant saying you've got to to show a vx car on the way and if I love IT.

listen to me if i'm going to go in and i'm going to spend two or three thousand dollars on wine and then a couple of thousand books on a tip, I don't want to ask all who's going to get me sick. There is bad enough that I still make IT sick. And and by the way, Daniel wyers restaurants are not like, fuck, you know, red Robin, these are extremely high places. The are that you can get a communicate respiratory disease and spent five thousand dollars .

is untenable untended able.

none.

Started sax, I mean, listen, you, you, you, they are interesting. Last episode you I felt like you were really trying to baLance your belief in freedom, uh, and people being to make decisions ourselves with, you know, the reality that we can be close rever how is the last we change your thinking and what you think of the day mie.

I like what danny mr. did. In this sense, he wants to create a certain experience for his client, tell, and he knows that his cant tell him more likely to go dine in his restaurants if there is a vaccine policy at his restaurant.

He's not saying the policy for the whole country. He's setting IT for his establishment. He has every right to be to do that, and he believes that will help his bottom line.

And he's probably right about that. Similarly, Roger, get out. Same thing. I mean, he took a tough line because he knows that if you want to, na fell to put out a great product every week, they can be cancelling games because a copy outbreaks.

You know, they can have the first ring players out with covey. So he made a smart business decision. I think people should have the freedom, the right to do that.

Now I still have this call, the reservation about government requiring IT. Not because I don't see the benefit, I definitely see the health benefit, but this because I don't like giving government the power to you. Stick a sick neel in your ARM.

If you're a government employee, I do think the government has added power. We talked about this last week. They can make you a job requirement.

And know, it's interesting in california. California said, if you're a state employee, you gotta get vaccinated. But the one group they single out, where the teachers, because, you know, garden sm, has no guts to stand up the teachers union whatsoever.

And I find IT so ironic that early in the pandemic, we had this big debate about whether the teachers will go back to school in the fall. And the teachers, you said we won't go back unless we're first in line for the vaccine. Well, guess what? They got that now they're saying they are not going to go back. If you make us cutback, you can't win.

They move in the goal post, I mean, people post. They want to work from home. They is kind of ridiculous.

That is a one group that needs to do at most, and they should be the one. It's kind like the army and teachers and health care workers. They should be given. AManda, if you want this job, you must be evacuated ity. You cannot be in the army, in the military and not be vacated, because we need you in close quarters on a helicopter to go wo soma a lot, and we can have a coffee outbreak in the navy seals when we got to go.

I'm okay with that. I think I think every employer has the right to required if they believes can impact performance. Now want to go back to the point that to month made about the mitral elections.

I I because I A part of I agreed with and a part of I disagree and so the party I agree with is that the republicans were cruising to you know amid term slacking and now um the uh the whole vaccine hesitancy issue, I think there was a prospective that cause damage. The republicans not because most republicans are vaccine hesitant, but rather because republican politicians were not out front enough on getting vaccines. But look, there's a different thing.

Reality and perception here. Here's the reality. Every single republican governor, every single one has been vicinity and has supported the vaccines.

Michael conal is vaccines vacine. Kevin mccarthy put out a statement, you even how the house mory wiped, please get vaccine on on live TV. Why had he not been vaccine? Because you ready had of IT. And you, I think you need, but he got the vaccine anyway to basically double down. You had Sarah gaby senders come out and say that he was getting to try SHE called the trump vaccine.

Yes, please. If put the trust logo on .

IT right I mean he understands right like this is probably you know Operation uh, light speed or speed to whatever was probably the because Operation .

Operation fuck up the meter's.

That's what the republicans should call this republic ican politicians in the main support vaccines. The problem is that they were being a little bit too quite about IT. And as a result of that you had the french people, the mark Taylor Greens and so forth, they were occupying too much air space around this issue. Um and you Frankly right now.

and I think the democrats are gonna keep those.

I I would not to go that far but because I think that I think the republican problem was not that their vaccine has a sized, but rather that there has been a little too quiet about IT. But now I think that's changed. I mean, there is not a single major republican politician who isn't strongly in favor of vaccine.

If the republicans can get their actual act together and actually get this uh you know Jason does joke about IT, but I do think he's right in a certain way basically like this this group of republicans largely um who refused to get vaccinated, then they may be able to pull something out. But I think that it's gonna to require a little bit of backtracking and showing up, as you said, by the mainstream political groups. And they just have not .

done a good job if there's a really simple offering for them. New information, new strain, new approach. Listen, we didn't anticipate delta what happen. This is ten times people to save face.

Basically, they can say.

face, you get a perfect offer and list this new information here.

This thing is even the cdc hasn't officially changed their policy yet. I mean, it's coming, right? We know it's coming. We've always been behind the curve.

We predicted the policy change on the show anywhere from two weeks to two months before they actually do IT the look on the vaccine. I don't design a difference in position on the vaccine itself between republican governors and democrat governors. They both are advocating IT.

They're both allowing private organza to acquire IT. But none of them, to my knowledge, have either had the guts or the memories. How do you want to .

see IT to actually require IT? I love you not used enough.

I just putting a capital before we move on to what's going on in china. Um we talked about implementing this and how do you implemented? Well, we don't need to have a national registry.

People have vaccine card or bring your vaccine card, you show IT. And then of course, people go to, well, what happens if you uh, create a fact? Can anybody create a fake vaccine card? Yes, of course you can.

But the FBI has put out uh a statement now because a lot of plus a the music festival, they are saying do not buy a fake vaccines court because if you want to have no mask at lap lusa you have to uh show your vaccine card and they said the FBI is uh treeing about this ah it's illegal and endangers yourself and those around you and it's a federal crime that could lead to have defines a present time oh my god. yeah. So show us your pay .

first just .

to and were dealing with this is quickly .

becoming a dark in award. This is quickly moving into Darwin, a or territory we are.

I talk to my doctor and I think I want to get the moderna or ja j, which one should I get and we got the file already. Like, I wanna take a second. Like, I don't think that's gonna a difference.

I like, I think it's just going to make a difference when we got off the power last week. And they're like, yes, well, you give me the third shot of fires or that and I like, well, that's not necessary either. Like, I don't care if it's not necessary. I want IT give me the third shot of fires. And then I opened up judge report, yeah, that is a third shot of vaccine, a pfizer in israel, whatever they're going to start giving .

people a third of shot at. But by the way, there's one other piece of news that came out that I thinks very positive on on copy, which is the availability of these oral anti virals, the pills that .

you can take when you get an early case of IT.

right? So it's like what they have for tama flu with the flu, like no one should ever die of the flu because tama flu is like completely effective at stopping at, provided you take tama flu early in the case.

So I think that you with the reduce effect ness of vaccines, what we're going to have to do is supplement of vaccines and the boosters with home testing and then, you know these oral anti virus so that you get you take a test, you discover you got cove IT and you immediately get prescribed, you know, one of these these pills. And the farmer companies are coming out. There's like three different farma companies coming out with these oil anti virus and a freeburg here, he could tell us .

all about IT and besides hind .

know the science, go fuck itself. Hey dani, my chill, a great bottle .

of White .

burger uh.

all right at the china situation has been perplexing to me. You know my position was always be be careful working, uh, in chor investing in china. We're investing in chinese companies because they could change the rules at any time and change the rules they have in the past a year.

We talked about obviously and financial uh and jack ma going M I A bite dance cco and founder a stepping down a CEO amid chinese regulations and all the scrutiny and and then we have D D last week being pulled from the abscess in an unprecedented penalty where you are not allow to download D, D, and the be existing users can use IT. And then on top of that, uh all the educational companies this week were told that they uh cannot Operate as for profit companies and these companies have gone public in hong kong g and in the west. Uh and this has cause such an acute effect.

Soft bank uh is clearing a bunch of its uber position to cover their losses indeed. Uh and then there is the story of Larry chan hoo is a chinese education entrepreneur. He was worth fifteen billion in january. Now he's lost ninety nine percent of his network, according to bloomberg.

He uh found a go to techno uh or techy do, which is a chinese online to inform as we know education huge uh in china that company um go to peak at one hundred forty tales to share in january and has fAllen into three dollars a share. Big sorted story there ten cent lost a hundred billion in market cap in three days early this week as china crackdown on what they called the monopoly and music rights. So while we debate what happens with the here in the united states, china just literally told them.

And here's the quote from the BBC article. The company in its safty businesses have been told that they can no longer engage and exclusive deals over music rights and must to solve any existing agreements within thirty days. I mean, this would be like bite in just saying the APP stores now open, you have to let other absolutes in apple or you know just coming down and saying to amazon, you can sell amazon basics anymore and thirty days, no more amazon basics at the site. What are we what do you think the end game is here is to say, because china seems like they are very deliberate and they plan in centuries.

What is happening here, there's the short term in the long term. I think what's happening in the short term is that the same thing that we are talking about in the united states that taxes know very eloquently.

Basically, I think that most everybody in just really framing for a lot of people is this idea that um you know we have privatized free speech and we have put the distribution of information into the hands of three or four founder CEO all the guards that's also true in china and when you look under the hood of the major internet companies is four, five guys that are in charge. And so I think that in the united states, politicians feel increasingly uneasy with those folks having power because it's applied in discriminating. Trump gets band.

Trump may not get banned. This person gets distribution. This articles considered misinformation, that articles considered this information.

This article is suppressed. It's a dangerous place to be. Um and in china, they were just like enough enough.

So I think the short term as IT relate to the internet companies was basically a realization that we are not going to allow any more devolution of power from the chinese communist party to and into the hands of these internet entrepreneurs. So that was that was sort of like the I was a move out of fear. They're scared.

They're onna lose their not scared. I think they're just smart and they were like we're not going to allow this to happen, so they don't have to deal with section to thirty or any law like that. I think he was just a realization that we want them to understand who is boss, right? And so there is a wave of resignations.

There was uh, now all of this market cap of people, and this is now what we get to sort of like the appetizer. And I think in the appetizer, what they're basically saying is we will control how money is made and who makes money. And and I think that, that sets.

The really difficult thing that I think happens, which is about the larger so in this in this thing, what's happening right now is china very firmly telling everybody we are firmly in control. There is no private market and there is no capital market without our approval. And that's a really big statement.

Um and in fact, IT was such a big statement that um I think the chinese uh security authorities and have like a conference calling go on sax J P. Morgan, all these folks were invited and you know the vice german, basically his cope with something to the effective. We promise that any more changes will at least let you know not a there's nothing, nothing to see here or there's nothing more to come is just more that as we decide, new rules will make sure that we give you guys warning.

So it's very much firmly saying we know exactly how money is made. We will decide who makes money in what way. And we're going to make sure that you know all of this wealth creation um happens under terms that we define.

And I think that the set up for the long term, the long term in china is complicated. IT is an enormous demographic time bomb. We've talked about this before.

By the end of twenty one hundred, china's population will shrink from one point one, one point two billion people, down about seven hundred million people, right? So they had very progressive coron quote under their framework laws of one child policy, to basically make an economically viable. In the sixties and seventies there were such A A number of people, those people were able to get great job.

The, you know, eighties and nineties and two thousands. And now we've realize, oh, while we made a huge miscalculation because now there is just not enough people and so china's gna shrink. And I think that honesty, I think jian ping probably thinks the simply way to solve this is to basically nationalized lot of the economy over time. And so I if I was a betting man, which I am general, but not in china because I just don't understand the market, it's but I don't know the market.

I think that change the rules of the game.

Just finish, I think that what were what we're starting to sees the beginning of nationalizations and I think it's gonna start in technology universe because those are the critical assets that the chinese need to own for the future. So that's in my union happening. I think it's really important what's going on there.

Um and sex, when you look at this, we've been talking about you know this these two great competitors, amErica and china, and who's going to win? How does china win if this would seem not having a viBrant entrepreneurs, socialist, communist hybrid? Is this the end of that experiment? And now it's just gonna all national. And doesn't that make IT easier for the west to win? If china's just going to say we're going to we're going to Operate everything and they don't have a competition of ideas if they go that far.

I think it's really interesting actually to compare what's happening in china with what's happening on the U. S. In the us.

Because on the surface, both countries are having this debate about whether big tech needs be rained in, broken up, controlled. We're having that debate in the U. S.

And and obviously, they are having some version of IT in china. But it's a little bit like the the civil rights to be right where you know we have our cil rights issue in the U. S.

And you know they have chance. You know they have uh the weaker. You know it's like a whole order of magnetic different in terms of the way they react.

And I think there's I would say there's three main differences here between the chinese approach and the U. S. approach.

Number one, data privacy. We have a concept of separation between private companies and the data day control and the data that the U. S.

Government can get its hands on. And the U. S. Government typically has to get a warrant and go through a corporation or to get that data. What china is doing.

They're now passed a law basically saying, all these companies, your data belongs to us. If we want IT, we get IT. They're taking Operational control over the data and you know they're onna use IT. Okay, that's a big difference.

Number two, I think that china seems to be really worried about these big tech companies, not just in terms of um whether they might engage in anti competitive practices or consumer harms, sort of those conventional anti trust concepts in the united states, but they are concerned about these big tech moguls becoming power centers in china. And you saw this with jack mall, right? I mean, clearly the C, C, P had a problem with the way that jack mall have become a figure.

The people rally ed around him. They looked to him. They cared about what he had to say.

And all the son, yes, the ant IPO was put on the hole, but I was more than that, right? Um you know this was not just like, know what the S C was. I just all of the sun jack mod disappear.

He goes into some sort of house arrest. He comes out three months later looking kind of amasidia uh, you know they are putting the the fear of god in, you know, these big tech mobile in a way that we would never do in the U. S.

I mean, look, I don't want tim cook to engaging into competitive practices, but I don't want anything bad happening to tim cook. I don't think the guy, I should be in their house arrest if he wants to donate his money to political causes and speak out as a private citizen. He has every right to do that and all defend his right to do that, no matter how much I want you, apple, to be rained in, they don't have that.

Again, that separate concept in china. And I think the last thing is going on here that's different, is you saw trying to put the cables on. There are thirty four IPO s of major, a chinese tech companies that were scheduled to IPO in U.

S. Markets and they have sort of shut that pipeline down. And what IT appears to to they appear to be saying is that, know, we talked about reassuring strategic industries back to the U.

S. Like pharmacy, opal manufacturing. They seem to be saying we are going to reassure the IPO business.

We do not want you big chinese tech companies. I paling on american markets, on american exchanges. We are bringing that business back to china.

And that is why I think you're seeing you giant ripple effects now because means such mass point about decoupling. We now IT looks like we're gonna decoupling our financial markets. And um you know that's why you're seeing know gigantic kids the value that would .

you agree with me that the decoupling of this financial markets might be in the best interest of humanity and and ultimately the decoupling of these two economies. If we don't see I dye about human rights and how to treat people, maybe it's good that we have a little more distance between the two markets. I mean, IT is hard to know if engagement is the Better process, but IT doesn't seem like the chinese communist party wants to have anything to do with democracy, anything to do with free markets. They want to control all the markets yeah I mean.

you could see um but in a way, the product that the U. S. Was expLoring to china was 啊 was so financial markets and and I think a good way， right?

So I think the bad version of this is when china is able to buy up ownership in critical strategic centres in the U. S. And that affects people.

Speech tried so over here, but this is not china buying up ownership in the U. S. This was china acting as a consumer of U.

S. Financial markets. And and I think I think is defer right when we're selling products over there that helps correct our trade baLance, right?

This is why I don't have a problem with you want some over in china is he's helping our trade baLance. okay. But so but they're of canceling that. They're of saying we're going to reassure this industry. We want to have a domestic this .

this is this is creating a mono economy, right? It's like it's gonna blur the lines between public and private ownership and it's going to basically make IT one huge part from which the chinese government can can take and put IT back into as a deems fit for the broader success of china as a whole, right? So if you're A C E, O and they don't like you, you're going to resign, right? If you're a company and they are worried about your propensity to be a little too frisky on your own, they'll rain you and i've the lot to use cybersecurity or something else.

But the point is that I think that we shouldn't take this as free market regulators having their way. This isn't leana on implementing, you know some was this is a top down decision to nationalize large parts of the economy, starting with technology. And I know that for some people that may seem unfathomable but um if i'm a betting man, which I am, that's what I would back on that this is the beginning of the beginning of an attempt to pull these companies in. I mean that the at what David said is true, the chinese government owns the data of chinese companies. So at the end of the day, the chinese government also owns the users and and also owns the revenue, which just hasn't told you had ah in a way.

it's like the chinese government in our our government is trying to officiate the game fairly and create a really competitive, viBrant game. And anyway, the chinese government just said, as the games over.

like there is no game, there's a game .

IT just me.

IT has new bro. IT made a bunch of CEO general managers in a large corporation that report through a reporting chain to one person to me.

But there's no more game in terms of building companies and investing in channel. How is the west ever going to trust? How is golden's, acr, sqa launching a venture firm there? Or retail investors or hedge fun investors? How are they ever gonna to participate in the market?

Because so look, for example, when you invest in china, right? Or if you set up a fund, you know, there are two pools of capital, right? There is the local remain dominated investment vehicles, and then there is the us. Dollar to nominated investment vehicles. And they do that to segregate where the capital comes from.

So it's not too difficult for the chinese government to basically say, you know what, i'm going to actually make a constraint on dollar inflows so that you know the remember, the nominated investment funds that are from chinese investors into chinese companies needs to be above a certain percentage, call IT two thirds, right? Or call IT eighty percent. They can make all these decisions because these logic rules that are completely under the control.

So I I think that people who don't think this is gonna en. Are probably not looking at the set up. The set up seems to be directing itself towards that outcome. And by the way, that makes sense for what decision ping wants to do for.

But that's not my question. My question is why would mozos on or another entity ever invest in china?

Because you look through the risks and you got completely enabled by the population at the time. But what i'm saying now is, why would they do IT again? But there are there are bound recondition that would say that even before this, you would have had to reconsider.

The population is shrinking. There's a different demand side pull that happening, right? Older people need different kinds of services in Younger people.

There's not enough Younger people. There's too many men. There's not enough women. So there's not enough couples. There's not to all of these demographic issues ultimately will get reflected in the economic reality, which is that smart investors would put money in china differently over time anyways.

But I think that this is a bigger thing, as David said, which is if that's coming to pass, you want to control the pipes because you want to control how that information is presented to people, your citizens, so that they don't get pissed off. And then you might also just on the east on the business. Anyway.

this is being amazing for american tech companies because I don't see who would ever want to be an entrepreneur. Whoever has a great idea, I wants to pursuit in china.

I to do IT. No, I do, do you? And the reason I do you, we don't have access .

to their markets anyway. What company has access to their market?

The difference is Young, smart chinese people for decades have been staying in china, in part because there was more they could more relate culturally to jack ma, then they could to jack dorsey. 嗯， okay, that just I mean, that just makes sense OK, and I understand that. And then the second is we uh like a lot of a like sorry, like the opposite of some other western countries that canada closed their doors.

Why would the next jack ma start a company if they saw jack ma disappear?

That's my day because you know what if you're coming from china and you you can only make a billion versus five doing, I think you still take the shot, okay?

I think jack l is is right in in the sense I don't things can be like a binary decision. All this and everyone to stop doing business in china, but they going to be hedged their bets. I mean, if you are a chinese billionaire looking at this landscape, your priority has got to be to get some wealth outside the country.

Beyond the control of C, C, P. You're going to be buying bitcoin. You're me trying to get your money overseas. You have got to be very nervous about .

what's flying homes in people.

absolutely. I mean, luck. I think what president he is doing is fundamental, redefining the bargain between chinese entrepreneurs and the government. And here, here was the original bargain, right?

The great chinese leader and economic reformer dung shopping basically step the bargain, you know, forty years ago and and basically the bargain was this, we're going to open up the economy and let you the entrench get rich. We're going to keep all the political power. So as long as you don't mess with us politically, you can get as riches you want.

That was the original bargain. Now present, he is saying, there's a new bargain. There's a new boston town.

And here is the deal, that economic interests in channel be subordinate to national interest. Those national interests are defined by the ccp. And I run the ccp for ext is, and that is a big change.

They just got layered. There is a new CEO that they report to. This actually .

makes me very hopeful. actually. I think this is going to be like a spiring down of their economy.

I don't think to spare. I don't. So I mean, who's who's going to see who's gna .

invest in their economy?

Everybody, guess what? Because if you want a share of fucked and lifeline, if you want a battery, if you, if you want anything to happen, you need to work with china. They are incredibly smart and doubtful.

They had been strategic while we've been running around, you know, complaining, crying, talking about the kindergarten soccer game. They were doing the hard work. They were doing IT for decades. And until we find solutions that can work around them, we need to work with them. I think they just .

throttled innovation and they just shut themselves in both feet. I I think they are gonna regret this decision. I would come .

out in the middle and say they would ve just attached a discount rate that now every investor has to consider political risk when they invest in china because the future is very uncertain. The bargain is getting changed. And if you're in an investor, you now have to take you're taking some huge I agree with David.

I think that's a Better way. I would refine what i'm saying by saying it's a distribution of risk where it's closer to russia now than I distributed ted.

This yeah and then I think this a there's literally an act called the gin gin skii act magsy act. What is the act that bill brother lawyer kinski?

Oh yes.

because basically in russia they were just killing people in taking their businesses. I think this feels like the equivalent in china.

I mean, literally.

that was bill brother lawyer who was torture to death. And I just don't see anybody wanting to investor anymore. And this does make the bitcoin in hindsight, IT does look like they shut down bitcoin a couple of months before making these actions.

So in your point, David, they probably anticipated that people would start chipping their money out using bitcoin. And so they banned bitcoin and now they're banning CEO from having too much power. That was probably a sequential event .

that would be very smart on their part, you know.

can't smart.

What is this duty? Like the zoia capital, china, the moo I on investing heavily there and invest very active in the united states, investing all the chinese L.

P S are are fine. All the chinese G P S are fine. All the chinese companies are fine. I think David is right, is just a discharge tor. I do think IT affects global bowler flows. I think it's hard for um a western capital pool to allocate money into china without doing a little bit more work and applying a higher discount.

Yeah, I have to believe that the conversation happening in these firms that have made gobs of money in china last couple of decades IT has to be are we living on borrowed time? How much more time do we have before china says that chinese profits, chinese return on the investment, we're going to go to chinese individuals and companies under our control because that's that's the direction and all seems to be have yeah and .

how quickly can I get get out of these positions? I mean, how do you even get out of these positions? This anything I don't understand if they're going to reverse some ipos, how does that mechanically happen?

Or they're going to just say the bio, it's a second, second transaction and we'll just do like A A bio.

So if museo sia as on owned some amount of dd, they say here here again.

here's the Price pressure that repay you. Here's your cash. Give us a shares jail .

that's incredible. A force sell at whatever Price they determine.

I know. I mean, like I think these things will Operate more faciendo than that because you have a distribute or children. So you know china can't force a shelter of D, D to sell the shares because it's listed in an american stock exchange. But they but if D, D does go private the way that you know the news er reporter saying somebody's gonna to back, stop that capital, I suspect it'll be a chinese organization .

so they will take D, D, private again and then buy out all of the shareholders who .

bought from by the week if that does come to pass. I think that is the that is an obvious signal that we're moving in to sort of a more a nationalization of critical resources. And china has determined that internet resources are critical. And I think that that's right. If I was in their shoes, that's exactly what I would do as well.

Does this mean that we should be, uh, kicking out chinese companies from Operating in the U. S. I? Tiktok.

do you know? But I do think that tiktok needs to a carve out a bite dance that he needs to have a completely american capable. But that shouldn't be a government idc. That should be something that the bite task investors and board are scrambling to do right now because otherwise that actually value may go to zero by tense, should be a half a trillion dollar company. IT probably is a couple hundred billion dollar company now, which means that IT probably lost half of its market value.

It's crazy.

crazy. Yeah, I think there's a few things first story about there. I mean, I like the idea about competing china by having fewer and more open capital markets and allowing anyone of the world to invest our companies.

I think the issues with tiktok are more around data. You know, we know now that any data that by dance has belongs to the chinese government. This isn't just a tiktok issue.

It's any company, any U. S. Company is doing business in china. Look, IT applies to zoom. Okay, look, zoom wrong.

Zoom right now, zoom had is not a chinese company, but has a giant engineering team in china. What are the data implications for that yet? They stop .

rounding their service. Remember, they had some services routing through china. I do think they are going to have to shut down and sell off whatever their assets are in china. That's gonna untenable to have a communication platform.

You know, it's kind of like Willy, right? We don't allow willing to Operate and we're going to have to do that with software, right? Has been a big Christopher breakthrough sixty five year old man and Patrick dirty uh was suffering with a uh a disease in which his protein was misshaped we shape and uh building up in his body destroyed important tissues are such as nervous hands and feet.

He watched the same disease kill his dad h and here's the quote, had watched others get crippled and die difficult deaths from this disease, and it's a terrible prognosis. He entered a trial utilizing crisp er, the gene editing a tool, and researchers report the data indicating map experiment treatment works well. The study dirty volunteered for is the first in which doctors are simply infusing the gene editor directly into patients of letting you find its own way to the right chain in the right thousand, this case the thousand and the ever uh, making the destructive protein. The advance is being held not as says, not just for amy lodz patients, but also as a proof concept that Christopher could be used to treat many other much more common diseases. The new way of use the innovative technology to methods.

I think this is a really important breakthrough and what IT allows us to do. Now I see a world bird. Look, if you, if you think about the two different paths of the following idea, you're gonna make a solution to a problem.

If if the problem was um an internet company or you wanted to make a product, what you would do is you would go to amazon web services, you'd be able to consume a whole set of abstractions and then you would build a light amount of programme which is essentially like the application logic of your right. I think a lot of people listening understand that idea because that's what they do here. What we're getting to a places now, soon we're going to be able to view biological problems in the same way.

So we're building all these small little building. I don't want to call them small, but building these very important building blocks that is very much, again, to the building blocks we needed to put together, the first set of computers to put together, and a stop. All of that allowed us to create windows.

Windows allow us to actually access the internet. And there is an insertion autumn development of things that happened. And I think that we're on the verge of that.

And that's what these kinds of breakthrough really show us, which is that you can view. So for example, you know in a different company um they've created these M R N A gator ies, logic gate eries. So if you you know a chip designer, you'd understand how to basically create electrical function in part using ino gator's.

But if you reduce a biological function to the same idea, now that same person has a translation ability to solve a different problem that they didn't have before. So I think what we're saying is that works, seeing this platform zone, this A W U S, A fiction of a biological tools in with things like crisp r and all of the other modalities I need to stack on top of IT so that the next person can view IT as a programme problem. And I think that that's a really exciting path that accelerates a lot of this development.

But this is an enormously important breakthrough because IT validated a lot of a Crystal, a was beyond a lot of theoretical innovation that, that up until now was basically what I was known for and a lot of investment had gone into companies that we're trying to do things. Uh, but this is the first really important one. The funny thing about telling is that it's been public for like seventy years and it's been toiling, toiling, toiling, toiling and then you know the last little while. Obviously one absolutely crazy because of this breakthrough yeah .

in related new in related news, crisp a crates tes its first genetically modified marsupials. After years of using the gene erring technique, Christopher, to generally modify any information about to lab rodens, researchers have used IT to edit one of the hardest targets, marsupials, the M, I, T. Technology reports.

I guess IT turns out they're very hard to edit and we're now editing more subs and changing things like their hair color. So brave new world freeburg was here. The freeburg show will be off the charts. All right, wrapping up.

we have incredible. Just one thing add to that. I mean, I think what IT shows that these code of vaccines es are just the first product, the first break product of this mr.

N A. technology. There's going to be a lot more. And when I wonder about is this category of vaccine has some people and they are kind of like, you know, in the in the technology world, you have kind of spectrum of early adopters, late adopters, lood etes. You know, people are actually against logy yet well, I mean, a lot d lots and .

lot yeah little eyes.

even more violent opposed I think the original lood etes I think the original eyes were in england. They lost their jobs from factory and they broken to the factory chAmbers to destroy all the machines that replace their jobs. So ah is quickly a spectrum. And what I wonder about is that if you're on sort of a lot, I end of the spector, with respect of biotechnology, I mean, are you going to have a materially worse life because you're not getting the benefits of all these vaccines and all these treatments? And I mean, quebec could just be the first example of this.

What I mean, if you build on IT, it's sort of like we're going to create a two class society, one that is not only dealing with all the males and cancers and and living longer, but we haven't even started to think about while taking somebody who's already in great health. And what can you do for them? So oh, you know what? Uh, you can be two interest taller.

You could add ten I Q points, you can run faster. You could have higher blood, oxygen and whatever. I mean we we can genetically modify people to stay under water for ten minutes, uh, and be, you know, Better processors of oxygen like other mamas are.

You could have superhumans. I mean, that's basically where this is going. And that unlocks a whole another level of ethical and moral considerations. But you're right, there could be a group of people who are like, I don't want to touch any of this and they die at sixty, seventy, eighty years old, and they we had another class of people who embrace this, and they have twenty more I Q points, and they live to one hundred and twenty. No, I mean, IT sounds funny, but and like science fiction, but that is in the realm of possibility in our lifetimes.

There's a lot of great science fiction right about this whole inhumed st idea. A books series I really like is uh access by ramaz nm, who actually was developer at microsoft and here then became a writer and he writes with, i'd say, a high degree of sort of a accuracy and specificity about these technologies and how they might evolve their peers. Be sure to check out that back just and be honest.

if you could actually increase anything in your body through the general thing out .

there and would increase my muscle mass one hundred percent, increase my muscle mass, percentage of fact would go down, not in reality in absolute terms, but just in percentages.

So this Christopher thing was, uh a public company called entel therapeutics. Um but I want to throw a shadow to another start up that seemingly, I think, may have had to break through this week called for energy. And the reason why these guys you're interesting is that theyve built this incredibly massive long duration battery out of iron.

Now why is that important? We have really simple ways of harvesting iron from the earth. IT is literally everywhere.

Everywhere you look, I exist. It's not so true for nico. It's not true for cobalt. It's not true for management. It's not true for lithesome. It's not true for all of these other special chemicals that we need in order to build batteries, but these guys have solved a very complicated technical chAllenge that will allow you to store energy cheaply, which has huge implications.

Parents for electricity and grids and so big shut up to these guys at form um because if if if IT looks like what they said they did is true, it's a really important breakthrough that i'll have some important uh ratifications. It's it's amazing, by the way, to see progress. Now you wake up and you read these things in just like god. This is incredible that there are people working away on ship that really matters.

It's almost as if there is like one group who we talked about cynics in a previous episode, de recently. There's one group of people, whether you're in the founder circles or capital allocators or a journalist covering the space who understands IT there. There is a technical, you know, explosion going on here and innovation that is going to solve a lot of problems.

And they have another group, people who think that all these problems are intractable. I'm kind of looking at this, you know what happened? We covered, and I was talking to my wife about global warming. And I like feels to me like we can solve global warming, like feels like it's very much in our control. And there's the other group people who feel like it's over and don't have kids because the whole planets .

gna go on five where I mean uh I think elan tweed this out um and I think we've talked about this now with respect to china. But you know we have an enormous problem in the world in general which is that unless our birthrate is positive and a creative um IT has huge implications to progress, right?

If you just like if you eliminate or you decrease the the nomination of the global population, the odds that there's another elon mosque, jeff, bases that are created or just lower and so net of anything else, a declining population rate, particularly in western countries, has huge detrimental effects to the world. And so all the folks, I think that they're going to solve the ecology of the world by not having kids is a little misguided. The thing to do is to actually have a positive birthrate, find technological solutions to this problem, and allow what we've been able to do, which is a rising population, to basically be motivated to work and solve problems.

And I think that we have to be very careful about that, because if if people don't get this right, they're going to take the wrong solution. It's not going to be a solution is at all, and it's going to make the problems even worse. Could you imagine if the population of the earth shank and hf, what IT would mean in terms of productivity services, the health care requirements that are needed, the cost of providing those things, the economic viability of countries will go away. IT would be a disaster.

Yet there is a group of people who feel we should do exactly that. And and not not a small group of people.

Well, they think that I think, I think the mistake isn't thinking that human consumption is the problem um especially with respect to to climate change, to global warming. No you can see that that way because um like humans in order to exist need to consume. And we're going to amit carbon as part of that process.

The important focus on is energy production. Are you shifting to clean production, not because you're never been able to shrinking your consumption enough to basically eliminate carbon emissions? IT has to be done on the production side.

And one of the interesting things that's happening now, um I think we should talk about is in the europe, they're creating this new carbon trading plan. I think china's even trying to set up one of these markets and so they're creating these new um you marketplaces to trade carbon permits. And I think the most exciting part about this is that he gives an incentive for for innovators to create new technologies that actually take carbon out of the atmosphere.

They're called negative emissions technologies. Because what happens is if you have a technology to take carbon out of the atmosphere. You can now sell a permit on the exchange that give somebody else the right to admit that carbon.

And now those technologies, those those nets, the negative emission technologies, it's unclear that they really exist yet, but no one's gone to create them. If there's not a customer for them, and that was really cool about these new tradable permit schemes, is they create a buyer for for those nets. I think that's ultimately how we're going to solve this problem of climate change. We're not going to do IT through reducing human consumption like we're going going to go back to the stone age. If you don't want to emit carbon, it's about moving to clean production of energy and creating a negative emission technologies.

Yeah, let me just build them up for second. There's but there's a bunch of capital systems. China basically has A A ter um uh a carbon tax system in place.

The big thing that none of these folks have gotten to yet. But I think if you look at the laws in europe, there going there is the idea of a carbon terf. And I think these carbon taxes, if they actually exist properly, will look like a tarifa.

What does that mean? Let you say you're britain and you want to import a vote waggin from germany. If britain has a carbon tariff that says, basically you need to account for all of the emissions that went into making this car and i'm going to assess an import duty that basically maps to that, um I think that that's where the world is going.

And that's probably, David, to your point, it's going to be a really big value or not because the amount of money that i'll get both made but also destroyed in that process will be incredible. And that's where we have a chance to really reimagine consumption in a different way, like there are just so many categories. I saw this interesting that if you look at C, P, G companies, right, companies like procter and gamble, chorus, and you compare them to the places where they sell their goods, like walmart, n target, every single major big box retailer has basically declared in that year old mission strategy in the next five, ten years.

Not a single company on the C P, G side, uh, has actually any plans to do anything meaningful anywhere near twenty, thirty, twenty, twenty five, twenty fifty. And when you look at to the hood, those companies like P, N, G and chords are enormous emitters, enormous. So even though you walk into a target, amazon and you try to make yourself feel good thinking, thinking yourself on buying something that zero missions is not true, it's basically that amazon will bear the cost of getting into a zero.

But the products that you actually consume are horrible for the environment. And the amount of false of feels that went into IT and the amount plastic that will then get put into the ocean, it's tremendous. And so moving slightly more aggressively beyond these capital systems into something that looks more like a tariff, if I think could be really important for the world. And we're gna need to do IT.

There's and there are multiple ways to do IT identity. I saw elon backed the sea, uh, express carbon, the question, the question project, which is a hundred million dollars. Ze, and you can do this in multiple ways. You can do that the factory. And there is the one trillion trees that work until you saw that where they are trying to plan to trillion trees because of the original way to h sequester the carbon so that there's to be like three or four different ways to do this. And if there is an incentive to do IT, yeah that um is gonna for sure.

Part of why there's such political discreeter over this is because you look at approaches like the Green new deal. I mean， I think they understand the the the the problem, but what they're proposing is always on the consumption side, is basically politicians picking and choosing how people are going to consume carbon. Whether I see a cracking down on private planes to know factories, I mean, again, taking us back to the stone age.

Um nobody wants to, no, no insane, I think wants to support that kind of totality italian principle that the politicians get to tell us how to consume. But this this is why I think these these market based solutions where you say, look, carbon emissions are obviously an externality. If you want to admit you need to basically pay the correct Price for carbon emissions and we use the the money that you pay as as as some sort of whether it's attacks or either it's buying a permit, we use that money than all set into negative corporate missions in some market base system where the government controls the exco onny, but they don't dictate how people get to consume carbon.

And I think that's the right baLance. And we don't really have that type of baLanced conversation in the us. Yet because you've kind of got one side that says they want to save the planet, but they want to control everything and then you got the other side saying, well, look, I want to save the economy because your plan, the Green new deal, is going to destroy IT. What we need is, is again a marketplace solution to this.

And I guess the criticism of a marketability solution is you're basically giving people away to a the most cynical interpretation will be you can pay to pollute. You can just you can pollute all you want and just pay a fine intially. But that's not the right way to look at that.

You're actually offsetting somebody also is capturing what you put out there and IT, depending on the rules of the road. If you had to capture fifty percent more than you put in, you could create a formula that right? I mean, there could be some formula .

that over time, there's been a lot of fraud in this market like you know, people sell these carbon credits from you know certain forest and there is joke, which is like there's been a tree that's been sold like eighty billion times because it's like you can't really verify. You can only really estimate the amount of carbon sequestration that you know, for example, a tree actually does in the first place. And so there's been just a lot of um unfortunately, you know fly by night, uh unreliable non trust for the ways that this market has evolved. People have been waiting for decades with this carpentras market to really step into high gear, which is why some folks think the more aggressive plan will just be introduced terrible and let the market, David points, sorted out.

What do you think the prospects are for these negative emission technology? I I can't believe that a solution as low tech is planting trees is going to solve the problem, the carbon yeah yes. So the question is, do you think that assuming we create the market, the demand for negative emission technologies, the permits to admit, what do you think the prospects are technologically that innovators going to come up with these solutions?

I do think that we are a couple of breakthroughs away from these things being non issues. So i'll give you a couple of examples. If you look at like i'll just use batteries as an example because where i'm spending a little time when you look back and like you ask yourself like how did you decide to make the batteries the way we make them?

Um you know was IT some like you know broad survey of every single chemical composition and all these different structures and we realized that you know a composition of nico and manages and cobalt was the right thing to do, or lithium and iron and fox fatwas IT turned out that he was mostly like a handful of people decided, and we all just been iterating around the edges ever since. So one of the solutions to a lot of these problems is actually go back to first principles. The problem is that as these industries get build up and you notice you have so much um P P E, like so much equipment, so much investment in physical capex that happened.

The idea of switching platforms is almost impossible because is not economically viable. So we are in this situation today where a bunch of solutions have been proposed, David, to solve that problem, right? The problem with carbon capture and other other things and negative emission technologies is that they are extremely expensive.

They're very inefficient. They require an enormous amount of energy themselves, and it's not clear that they work. So what's happening, one is that there's been some pretty novel innovations in moving people past some of these basic problems by looking at the period table to try to find different ways of solving things like energy storage, which has huge implications to climate.

But the second is that we are pushing the boundaries of physics in different ways as well. And that's where there's going to be the potential foreign ormers breakthrough, specifically around superconductors. So what is a superconductor is something that allows an enormous amount of energy to basically translate.

Now we have this issue, which is that you can actually create superconductors in highly controlled environments that are extremely, extremely cold, but they have incredible performance characteristics that would revolutionize power and energy transmission in storage. People have been innovating in bringing that up to room temperature in that breakthrough, which I think you will see in the next twenty to thirty years. It's just a complete the change of how we think about the solve problem.

So I think the short term were innovating in the period table. In the long term, we're figuring out how to been the laws of physics. And I think that those are those are probably the two most practical solutions to a lot of things that remove the constraints that we've created.

And again, the constraints have been completely human defined, which is the sad thing. They were not necessary from the start. We could have made very different decisions had we known these problems were gonna as big as they were.

You know, the way that we make plastic didn't have to be this way, right? The amount of patrol um that we use IT IT did have to be in this specific c way. But this is where we .

are and there are direct air captured technologies deck which is basically an energy issue. You can literally suck the carbon dioxide out of the air. Um and again.

another another issue, material science, because the the the substrate that you use them to be relatively inefficient and sort that really activate them, you're pumping a tremendous amount of energy through there.

Taxi issue is can you give the energy? And I think will we talked about the small reactors ah the small module or nuclear actors, if energy is free or are a solar based a you you could kind of get a virtual or cycle going here.

That's essentially what superconductors allows you to see is a world where you basically we have limitless free energy.

IT sounds like the thing that we all agree on is that this problem is ultimately can be solved by innovation. And this is the problem I have with some of the political proposals, is. You know our ability to innovate is a function of the size and scope of our economy and the incentive and rewards for innovation and the freedom for on for north to do their thing. And if you crush that, yeah you know with government Mandate, you won't get the innovation we need to get out this problem.

We can easily innovate our way out of IT. And IT requires some individual to say, I want to dedicate my life to IT. And then what is the motivation to do that? And who is the capital? Alligators, who are going to give them the billion dollars to create time?

I spent a bunch of time. So on the capital allocated, give millions. In fact, I did a survey of the superconductor cases in the, and here's what I found of the of the four folks that I found, uh, who are all age, each individually, doing things in superconductors that I think are incredible.

They are all immigrants. Every single one were not part of the united states. You could you? They are so fucking happy to be here. They feel so lucky. And they don't understand why everybody complaints of .

the fucking ton yeah complaining is a there is a disease of constantly complaining about stuff. And if you count the number of times you complain every day and it's more than two or three times a day, uh, you need to get your head examined. You you're probably just talking yourself into anxiety problems.

Stop complaining. Start building. I means problems are solvable.

There is an immigrant in uh in the united states right now that will figure out how to conduct electricity without resistance. IT will transform the world. And we are so fucking lucky that that guy came here to this country and we have the chest c of the guy.

Billion dollars movies is like a dog with and one era and doesn't have in place this character and every time there's a setback he's like, oh, this is nothing. I only made this movie and three of the four, three actors died, and we request the movie like, this is nothing yeah and that serve his cut races. He's not this can do attitude matter what set back happens, he just makes them like all this is nothing. And that's kind of the attitude you need if you want to be an auto. Nor is there's give me you not around yeah this one of the guys are .

working on superconductor showed me his data for the last ten years. And what's interesting, David, to your point is yet a four year period where he took a huge step back where basically like you know he had this superconductor, he like he works that you know i'm just onna use simple numbers here, but like you know minus three hundred cells, he got all way up to minus you know, one hundred.

And then I went back to minus two hundred for four years. Could you imagine the mental devastation? And I said, how did you do that? Because h, you know, basically he's like, that's nothing.

yeah. And thank you for that guy. It's interesting.

I just listen to quitting time tinos on a podcasting tour because he got a new book. He wrote a novel out of the ones of a on a time in hollywood characters and I just started listen to its fantastic. I listen on auto and um brian coleman from the moment to interviewed quinton .

and I .

listen to a yesterday my bike ride and he was just talking about how he just never gave up and he had written true or romance and then he wrote um what was the other one he wrote at that time?

Natural born kellers natural killers.

And he was just talking about how the first movie, nobody would do that. He wrote a two screenplays and nobody would do. And then he got to reserve our dogs. And, you know, they tried to describe to other eight hundred thousand dollars, and he kept desk.

My White inhibit what equi think what you know, I just, I figured IT out like, I figured out I had a voice, and then nobody would buy my scripts because I was trying to do innovative. And they were reading the scripts and they didn't understand what I was doing in terms of innovating on how a movie would be with, know how he does with perfection. He changes the time and does the story telling in a non lining of fashion.

You think nobody understood IT. But every time I read and I realized I had a voice, that was my voice that was getting Better and Better. And then people, you know, I saw those movies and then you can building them. And I was very inspiring to think about that take of like, he just didn't give up and .

he just .

looked at the work and he found his he found his own value in his own work, improving even without the external. You know.

it's a fantastic story. It's like one of those classic know hollywood around from our stories. He's working in a videos store for years and you know, he would start where he was making his own movie, and he would a film on the weekends.

And then, yes, he made a few hundred dollars every week basis this. And then he would rent the equipment on a friday because then they would only charge them for one day because was the weekend. So he could basically record the entire weekend.

And so he had go often record, and, and then he had have to go back to work. And he started making this movie, you one weekend at a time for like two or three years. And then he finally put the you need to have of the money to get the film developed.

So finally, after three years, he gets the film developed. And he is unfortunate. IT sucked. IT wasn't what he was expecting. But during that time, uh, he wrote term's, which they got body.

He sold that screen play that gave a little bit money, then he wrote resolved dogs, and that he met long spender and know vender, went out, read scripters. I always said this, amazing. They raised the million or so books to make the movie, and then that kind of launch everything.

And yes, it's one of these amazing rags to the Richard stories. You know, there are kind of rare and or they are more rare in hollywood. They occur all the time in the tech. Dusty.

such interesting point, he said. They're like, you would never let you make that movie now. And you know, in another conversation, I think I listen to three pockets with them, a jerod, an bretty sinless son and brian compliments, and all three of my tremendous, I think in the pretty and in the George guan.

One is like, I like, they would never let you make time. When was like, bullshit, you can just make IT. I just made that I did you not see the last two films and how politically incorrect they were? You know, I don't care about bursley.

You know, fans, think of how I portray bristly. He was a, he was a bad actor. He was a terrible unhuman being to folks and he his basic thing was everybody keeps waiting to ask for permission and his like, i'm just going to make my movies and, uh, let the chips fall where they may.

I'm not going to be sensor. I'm not going to sensor myself. And I make my ted movies. And that's IT came over.

I'm going to tell the very rich story I wanted. Tell this poker story.

You tell your story. Tino, success with resort dogs. I think he came out one thousand nine hundred ninety one that really inspired me to want to make movies, because I saw that somebody could make a movie outside the system for so little money.

And that's why I may think we're smoking. We have another have another independent movie coming out next year about solar dolly, which you finally got made after about fifteen years. So yeah, I mean, he's inspired a lot of people and he shows what can be done.

This is the right, richer story that involves out. So I get inside. I get invited to the harvard business school to give a speech first. And last time I was invited because I was disinvited Jason. After that, what had happened?

But well, the the back to rose walked out in the first five minutes.

read, I get invited to do this thing. Obviously, in boston, it's in winter time, right?

chicken. He was boost winter and he was bother like not a great trip .

so as you know, I was like, okay, jack out, what are we going to do this spice to trip up and we invite big out oh okay and ah we get on the plane and big house says, oh, you wanna play a little poker I said, absolutely and I turned to jack alan and said, Jason, do you anna play? He's like, ah, I said, you know, you guys play against each other and I said, Jason, why don't you deal? He like, i'm not interested in dealing, and I said, jail, i'll give you ten percent of whatever I would like fuck up.

He deals the game for fucking six hours from L A chinese poker to boston. I smash bigger. I smash bigger, smash, smash. And then we go into the thing we have, like A A nice dinner blub a blood. We go out.

We have the thing at the, at harvard, what I said, something like, you know, I think in N, B, A is basically worthless as a matter you could use of your time. I think you should be out building things. The black two roles walked out.

They were completely invented. And I think this piece IT doesn't matter. I keep back on the plane and replying back and um at some point I realized I suggestion, what's the tally and Jason says i'm up forty thousand and I said, excuse me.

your rope and he turned .

out that I was fucking splashing him, smashing matching anyways. The long story short of IT was that we circled for a few times and then we finally landed and J, K, one fifty five thousand .

dollars through the.

Pack of cards I never would see you ever get. I never wanna have .

you fucking the grays. I went to the pilot and I told them, give you five grand if you can make this flight less another hour. And they're like, we ve got a circle.

They got, we just get circle hour.

I got going to get another hour .

in five hundred and fifty thousand dollars. stupid. He never even wanted to call these.

We go to the best visual and star .

restaurant by my god. But it's so fucked and stuffy by the and they're trying to you .

know bring you know eighteen courses to us and you know big hours of big guys called big out for a reason, I mean, line backer and they say a big like i'll take the time one to stake what is a stake included in the prefect? You should do the tasting menu. Al, I got IT tasting.

Fuck IT. Let's go put more travel on and the likes, not traffic season. Sorry, I OK i'll make a travel seas anyway, start bringing the food and he he wants me to stake and they bring him I could not .

funny season in a movie were like they pulled the ten and it's like of, look, a small piece .

of meat that take a giant ship for come to be a .

piece of parsely invented.

The stake was the size of a pack of rigorous gum. I am not kidding. They took like a beautiful cake, and they just made a little rectangle out of IT.

He takes his fork, he puts IT on and he holds up the room because where's mistake? And he, did you concern that was your stake? He's like, I want a stake.

I dreaming.

I want to stay the whole restaurant here. He's like.

I orde to stay if you ask him, if you ask him about the strip. P, he's like, I lost so much money. Yeah, it's like, I didn't eat. IT was called bob and he is like, the .

woman's like, well, how can we make you happy? Bring me a stake like, well, sir, we we gave you a stake, put the stake .

in many states. How many stakes are you going to afford now that.

yeah, you know, it's right now. It's my third biggest win, h ubertin. And then this one and you know time in market.

I I think Robin hood going out of thirty billion, there is a chances to go ten to thirty x from here. Think IT could be a true in our company someday. Twenty two million members, even through all the craziness that we talked about on this podcast. Uh, you know they're learning they are fixing things and twenty two million people using the product and they are gonna launch so many other products as part of IT and all these Young people getting financially literate. I know it's a double at short, but I kind of feel like this generation .

baLance it's it's Better and baLance it's important.

I mean, can you imagine if we were in our twenty trading derivatives and options and and just trading stocks, all that I wanted to do that, but I was too hard you had to get a broke IT was thirty five dollars a trade when I started trading and he had a culture swab and put them in water of all .

the things and all the things I could have done online in my twenty and thirties, uh, trading stocks, what didn't end up being hidden? 不是。

you play like hard, I mean.

a lot cards.

but that's what these kids are doing like for them. This is, you know, in the same zone, a lot of them as sport, bedding, wagering, playing poker for money. They are they're learning .

I don't know how you feel Better.

Well, I mean, if you make a lot of mistakes early in your career when you're making hundred dollar beats, you're buying a tenth of a so you know it's kes and you are going to learn a hell of a lot. So I I think the education part is you can only learn by doing right. I mean, you can learn.

And and okay, this, there has been an amazing episode. Our freedom, ah, we miss you. Your freedom.

Come back next week. Uh, let the conspiracy theories abound. But freeburg just was busy. You could make IT and we all wanted to. We miss each other so we want to to see our best is we love you freeburg and we love, I see you all next time on the all .

in process by bye your winter.

man.

We open sources to the fans and they .

just got crazy.

get. A room or.

Sexual and to release.