E70: EMERGENCY POD! Russia invades Ukraine: Reactions, Putin's ambition, Biden's response and more
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Alright, everybody, welcome to another episode of the all in podcast episode number seventy. We made IT to seventy episodes, which is just shocking to me and were recording a little bit earlier um because one of our best ties had to change your schedule to math and um it's um a crazy day to be doing this. Last night putin decided to invade the ukraine um late wednesday night, early into thursday morning, putin uh started a special military Operation in quotes to demilitarize the ukraine. And we've been watching this build up .

for weeks using s and not sifry yes .

of course um because the ukraine was filled with so many not uh his trolling continues I guess just starting IT off um sax you're big putin fan along with trunk, the right wing so tell us how glorious is this invasion republic party.

It's interesting well, that that's funny but it's also it's also kind of sad because what you're doing right there is exactly what the old twitter far is doing, which is anybody who wants to actually deescalate and defuse this war before IT escalate some attias and something much worse gets announced a put apologist. I have no dealings in either, you know, russia or ukraine for that matter. Ukrainian and cash is not lining my pockets.

Like many of our politicians, their families and watching ton, I have no interest except preserving the safety of the united states of america. And the point is that I think by, and the one clear loser point that he made is last week, I know he's giving one today, is that the united states, amErica would not intervene. Military in ukraine, we should all understand that.

He made IT very clear the troops that were being sent over there were to defend our nato allies. Ukrainy is not when we do not have a treaty obligation to defend them. What is happy right now is tragic. Putin is the aggressor, is a humAnitarian disaster. I do feel bad for the people of ukraine, or thin payers or with them.

However, we are not in an intervene military in that conflict, nor should we, because we cannot risk starting or or three IT is not a vital american interest who rules the dam bass in a way that IT is a vital american interest to avoid a war with russia. And the tragedy here, the second tragedy is that we did not do everything we could to the politically try and solve this problem. And what do I mean by that? On the pot? Three weeks ago, I said that ukraine was never going part of nata.

why? Because I just said that we can't defend the military against that. We were never going to admit them. Why didn't we give up that hard? That we don't know for sure what what had happened. But if we have been willing to basically a firm that we believe in ukraine sovereignty, but they are not in part of nato that might have defuses conflict, think we had .

consensus on that. We said like if I think actually actually just what if we said a five year, you know moratorium on them joining or something, you put that out there.

Can I just ask sex one question on this? Okay yeah sex. Do you not think that the us you know regardless of the obligations under a um nato faces a little bit of an issue on a global stage where you know we we told this leader backdoor don't do this and then we don't respond military that that action effectively reduced america's influence and credibility when IT comes to be sort of statements in this kind of global theater.

And our privacy is being chAllenged because we lay down the law. We said, this is not allowed, you cannot do this. There is gona be repercussions. And then IT happened, and there are economic sanctions. And you know, maybe we talk in a second about some other potential repercussions, but by not doing something military, we weaken ourselves and we weaken our position and that gives permission to others to take action that maybe counter ultimately the kind of the U S.

Interests uh abroad okay. So in response I have to quote what broke obama said um and we've mentioned some of previous party said the fact is that ukraine, which is on this back in the landing of U I gave the fact is said ukraine which the non nator countries can be vulnerable to military domination by russia no matter what we do. This is an example where we have be very clear about what our core interest and what we are willing to go to war.

Ford, the fact of the matter is none of us on this pod, one to send our sons and daughters to go fight and reach their lives and die to determine who rules the on vast or even ukraine. We sympathize with them. We may impose sanctions on their behalf.

We may ARM the military, but we are not willing to fight. And so therefore, us trying to lay down this lot of putin was a bluff, and he called a bluff. And the smart thing we can do right now is not to escalate.

Look, we've already gone to the river. He's we basically tried to barrel and blood from at every street we got to the river. He has now invaded.

We're now on to show down. What do you want to do now? You want to escalate this even more. The only way that we could make this worse is to precipitate a world war. No.

our absolute priority.

our absolute priority right now should be to make sure that this war doesn't spread.

My prediction is, as of right now, I would be very unpopular to go to war, uh, or for the U. S. To enter the war, uh uh, on the battle field. I do think and I don't know we're going to hear more about this today, but I do think that the cyber war is beginning today.

Uh, the united states has talked at length about having uh you know uh, tremendous cyber capabilities and understanding is as of this morning, a number of state websites were down in russia. A number of uh, you know, russian cyber interests were under attack. And so we may see the U. S. Kind of confront russia, uh, on another battle stage, not on the uh you know on the field, on the musical field but if over the next couple of weeks, this continues their days.

And I was just looking at sea this morning and BBC and there are these images that started to come out of like you know ukrainian um airplanes that that had been down um and if you start to see images of children um you know helpless children, buildings being bombed, body thrown on the street, does that not change kind of the american opinion on whether or not we should do something here and will that not kind of lead us potentially into a war that you know today? I think we all you know where many people would say, strategically, ally doesn't sense. Economically doesn't make we're only gona lead to kind of escalation. But don't you think that american opinion typically changes when imagery .

arises when out of brutality of war s it's like the .

first day. And there is like these really gruesome, awful photos coming out. And I I could see people getting sympathetic to that and starting to of, you know, being the war drum, saying, this is ridiculous. We can't let this tyre do this.

It's awful. It's already, it's already happening. you. But this is why we should not conduct foreign policy by twitter. We should not twitter ize the situation. This is, this is when cooler heads needs to prevail. The fact the matter is, when soviet tanks, they rolled into hungry in thousand and fifty six, or checks Sophia one thousand nine hundred sixty eight across the prog spring, or poland in one thousand and eight one across solidity, we did nothing because avoiding war with the soviet union was more important, even though we sympathy with those people. And in two thousand eight we've been in the situation for two thousand eight, georgia, the republic of of georgia, putin invaded on behalf of these break away russian sort of dissident.

Uh, province is south of city and cosa, why did that happen? When you remember back in two thousand a there was a lot of talk about George ornee nato, and you had, you know, the war hawk senator john mccain, go over there and declare where all georgians now. And so what happened all of a sudden? These break way provinces, the russian ed provinces of south of city and a atia started rebelling that get putin excuse to roll in there and the tanks.

A year later he left. But there was no more talk of georgia, Johnny, nato. So and again, we, George w.

Bush, was present the time we did nothing. Military, we just sent humAnitarian assistance. That was IT.

So we've bit in the situation before. We should not keep hearing in the media, on cable news and on twitter. This is historical. And president, we must act. No, we've been in this situation before two thousand and eight and all those previous times we were in the situation two thousand and .

fourteen went putin invade question um we we had this concept of hey maybe if we said, hey, we won't admit them into nato and um do you think that if we had actually made that concession or said not to let them in to need for a decade and whatever you think I want to change quoits behavior as or no well.

it's honestly it's hard to know. I mean, I I can't prove a counter factual. However, I think IT was tragic not to try. I do think, I think, I think really the goal of diplomats sure to try.

And and again, as I said, a previous pot IT was the sleeves of our vast ukraine is not going to be a member of nato. So to give that up, which was basically giving them nothing, I was almost meaningless toss. And instead of making that concession, what happened? Blinking came out with a statement, naos door is open and will remain open. IT was perhaps the most provocative thing he could have said in that situation.

And they would have had to been voted in, wouldn't happened anyway. Let me ask you this question.

You've been complaining about the media and democrats, uh, banging the drum of war and you're saying there are more hawkish on the other side of the table you have, uh, trump came out and said that put his move on the ukraine is genius and the guy is very savy and then you had pompeo saying, I have enormous respect for him and that is a very talented statement, has lots of gifts and he knows how to use power we should respect that. So your party, uh, your crew, is praising putin. Doing the praising of putin is wise in this kind of situation.

No, look here. Here's was going on first. All the war hawks and the people being the drummer of wars happening on both sides of the I le. And on both sets of cable news, I was watching fox last night. And they were all but, you know, two leading for war basic saying we have .

to go on office. What they were saying.

we have to go on offence that what what is by and doing, saying that we're not in intervene military. I'm like watching these people who acting, you know, IT reminded of doctor strange love, where you have slum pickings, the cowboy, why do the atom bomb in the way down?

And I watching .

the cable news and all these people acting this way. And i'm like, what in the world is going on? You know, it's it's all this is a .

big part of what I try to point at. Our prediction show at the end of last year, you know the if a country is happy, if the economy is growing, if there is a significant risk of inflation, no one wants to go to war. When those are not the case, there is a tendency to say we got to do something and if you don't, you're anxious. And if you don't have anything to do and some conflict arises. That's a good place to kind of apply your energy .

in your pressure. Let me bring the dictators to this trip a even silently thus far. Uh, any thoughts on what we're seeing here?

I was letting the proof speak, are you the Better .

see you or what? That sweater is very beautiful.

I have to say, I mean, sweater Carry right?

Drafting SHE is title SHE is.

Now, I think that has to be a go fund me to revoke that sweater for me.

What is a story with that sweater trude truth to restate of emergency.

Yes, how to grow and seeds to go for me. I mean, this feels like we're processing this to mah so quickly that the ukraine just asked on twitter today for everybody to tell at russia how they feel about what they're doing. And the ukraine, this is happening a real time. Is treeing memes now about putin, uh, that seems almost surreal and is getting very strange in terms of how are interpreting IT. I mean, is they're an off frp here or we just gonna to deal with putin doing this every number of years and this is just going to be, you know, a year two of you know, conflict.

I don't know, but here's what's important two a two points. One is the economic sanctions have been done, and the economic damage to russia has been started to be, I think the rubble against the dollar was of nine or ten percent this year when I woke up here in europe. So IT means so it's down even more so.

Um now the interesting thing about that was that I D A may uh preceding this, russia had built massive amounts of U S. Dollar reserves in that they had been completed over like the last little crisis that they went through and rebuilt in some ways made. These guys have plan all along.

They put some, they build up their bank accounts just in case, because they knew that this will happen. The other thing is, there is a problem from feature master. He said that deterrence is a simple equation, is the product of will and capability, right? Well, time capability.

And so you know if you're going to be uh, a deterrent on the world, they military ally not only do have to have an incredible military capability, you also have to have the will to go to war. And I think in america, you know what three groups said is I think if you pull a lot of people, um you know people are pretty does after all of these different conflicts. And so i'm not sure that the will is there to go into.

And so the best all rap is to try to find some to uh, economic pressure points, you know release out for more of that economic to return for some ronni zone. Baby, I think that's really the best check. You know, I could be onest of you and I was thinking about godd of this just from a financial perspective.

And you know whether I should be doing something different in something on. I thought that there was zero change that this up, I proposed zero as possible. I thought in twenty, twenty two IT. Just seem like this could be here we are and seems like IT is I hope everybody is a safe but I think to announced some pretty crippling exchange and I think that what is gonna very putin and you um and that's probably Operate but IT depends on IT depends on supper. Last again, I said I think russia and currency is are pretty going into this time.

Let me let me IT then a possible to use acts is there's going to be a lot of people are going to die, both russians and ukrainian. Sadly, if this thing keeps escalating, there's one hundred ninety thousand russian troops on the border or making their way into the ukraine. Is there an offer? And here in your mind, in any way you think the sanctions will work in in god, this the poor citizens of russia.

I mean, are they going to a crack at some point? And is this going to blow back onto a podden? Because what did they seem to get out of this, I guess, is a question, do the russian people support this? And will they support an an extended basis?

Well, okay, there's a few questions there. yes. okay. So the fact of the matter is so so I think you're write that putin has bought himself a headache here, right?

I mean the the eastern parts of ukraine that are you know ethically russian, the areas, the dog bus, they will those people will support him. But the western part of ukka ine that wants to be free is not ethically russian. That is going to be a headache for him to manage.

I don't think he wants this problem long term. It's probably going to be more like the situation we had in georgia in two thousand and eight. He goes in for a year.

He institutes perhaps some sort of hopper government or some government that's more favorable to him, and then he gets out properly. This is if there is no escalation, I think it's very important. I keep making this point.

The most important thing biden can do is to make sure that this is not escalate militarily and that we do not get military involved. I think sanctions will happen when that's pretty clear. Probably we have to move forward that.

But but at the same time, IT will sanctions work in terms of being a strong deter? No, I don't think so. There was a very good article by neil ferguson and knifin actually in the wall street journal talking about what we should do.

They made the point that sanctions don't usually work. However, what we should really be a striving for is energy independence. So hundred percent so, yes.

But the crazy thing is america, despite having these huge, uh, natural gas reserves, seven percent of our natural gas is going from russia right now. So why? Because we stop fracking. We stop the you by and cancel the keystone pipeline. And then in europe, the situation is even worse, which is they are completely dependent on on russian natural gas.

Germans are, and the U. K, not france. The open made the point .

that we could be investing in liquid file natural gas and exporting IT to europe to create more energy independence, and that would remove their dependence. Who and that energy independence here?

Problem of energy independence is IT takes too wrong. And we went through a massive capital under the best in cycle over the last six or seven years. And so you know, in the order to start this up, you need to get started actually putting money in the ground six or seven years of.

And the problem today, we put money the ground to and and that gas companies, every single one to a name as basically, and we are not going to put every any incremental capital into U. S. Domestic and gas for shale or even off short.

The real solution is factually go fully alternative and to go to renewable energy, because you can today, right, uh, deploy solar vastly more aggressively in the united states. Look at the end the day, the thing that is completely abundant and has the best implications around is so and it's gotten cheap er than coal. Why why are the only three percent peneplain the united states manufacturing these channels can deploy them broadly right now.

You know we're in the situation where california actually revisiting the I T C. Credit or the the net meting law. Sorry, rather, we should have huge implications to the california solum. They could actually destroy that all market. And so you know, we have to get really organized, David, to your point. But there is a pop energy and and I think it's all turning the energy, it's wind and solar um because we can do IT today and you can do IT really quickly and you can basically me through the entire captain investment ycl that you need to do for training.

But and also you could have germany could start turning back on nuclear power plants if they could get their citizens to pack nuclear over war. That seems like a .

pretty easy .

choice to a one year.

No, they're been doing for twenty years. They've been hearing them off .

for twenty years. I know they could. That means they don't have to rebuild them so .

they could just turn the back on. I know about .

the building, a new one in the U. S. That's the point. They .

could help them back on.

But you got to to think about the thread of doing IT would terrorize the social and the russians if all the suddenly eu said we are going to go massimilla massive nuclear and we're going to be energy independent, just threat high the country dramatic effect.

I'm not sure any country is going to is going to really uh all have a master actually to any other country talking about a multi er investment. I do think this to your point, solar is not a lot fear less cycle IT can literally happen in much, yes. And so that is much more disruptive.

So for example, you could if you took three trillion dollars to feel back Better and and said you we're just to make you put solar everywhere, everywhere. That would be if you take three trillion dollars of solar and you could literally everywhere in the united states, I think everybody would support IT. You would have domestic job creation like nobody's business. You would take so much carbon out of the air and you get out enormous energy vendors while you would give you a degree of freedom so that the next time you're push the war, you can actually evaluate IT under very different um you know this chocolate us and if you the energy from the country .

point yeah that's the point. And just for um a fact check here, nuclear part in germany accounted for thirteen point three percent of germany will supply in twenty twenty one. France by the way, seventy eight percent.

And that was generally a by six powerplant, of which three were switched off at the end of twenty twenty one. They literally just turn these often mamah. And the other three I know.

but the decision was not made yesterday. You so I pointed this, these are twenty year decision .

now was focused me of that pushed them actually in the sentiment of and they also had seventy percent of their electricity on a couple of weeks come from renewable. So the german so suddenly thought that they didn't live in a shading area and they could get by with just solar, which is a big mistake and is turning these off. Germany, if they didn't turn this off, they would have a different approach here too. You can be sure of that.

So like i'm a fina solar, but just make the point that natural gas burns from a climate standpoint, IT burns much cleaner than than oil, and oil burns much clear than coal. So natural gas is a way Better, a lot of the alternatives. And the main problem with that is that when you frg, you can get the release well, that but that's in the ground, but interns to the release of mEthane, which is a Greenhouse gas that's actually worse in C O two.

And so you can actually get mEthane released. But in the us, we have techniques for recapture of IT, where I don't think russia cares about that. So will be a lot Better off. I think solar is part of the answer, but I don't think we should be turning our backs on the enormous reserves of natural gas a we have here in this country.

free. But what do you thought you're hearing three of us talk about energy? Give us your science boy H A superpower's here. And what what do you think is the clarus shot on goal here for energy independence as an option to war?

I'll just point out that the notion that there are countries that are jacking or positioning to stop the train towards renewable alternatives for energy production this century, uh, the number of countries in that bucket are closed to zero. You know, saud ababa took saudi aramco public specifically so that be under kind of ambitious strategic direction, diversify away from uh, you know the fossil fuel dependency of the economy and diversifying other assets.

So they are onna sell down their equity interest in in saturday time and invest in things you know they probably made their first bet and regret IT with soft pink, but they'll probably make other bets to try invest and cut in next uh industries. And so you know if you look at the money that's going from uh even x on and you know there's a guy locally here in san Francisco who ran a very significant board proxy fight to get on the board of exon and he won um and he is joking for continued and increased investment from an R N D perspective in uh renewables and alternatives uh and we're seeing this across the board. There is gonna in the next couple years, if not already.

Many of these fossil dependent businesses and countries have are making a massive shift towards alternative renewable sources of energy. So I don't think that there's any enemy here. There's no evil like all the folks that have been dependent on the past are aware of the fact that this is not where the future is. We do have to transition. So the reason I bought energy stocks in december and the reason I made at this point was three fold.

One is because we have, as a result of the general consensus view, under invested in energy infrastructure and we demanded that gonna come out of the x COVID um economic growth cycle cannot be met with the current energy infrastructure and you're going to see energy Prices continue to climb, coupled with the fact that when war or conflict rises, typically you see um stockpiling uh and you see trade ground to being shut down and you see energy Prices climb. And so you know I think generally we're in a little bit of transitioning state. Everyone knows where the puck needs to be.

Everyone's had IT there. But um for now, I think everyone's trying to navigate how do we get through the next couple of years and in this particular year, you know get through the season of uncertainty, know how how fast this economy growing, how much have we actually underinvestment in infrastructure and how much renewables do we have coming online. Now I think the right answer, if I were to be president of the world, I would um immediately a deregulate uh nuclear um uh and make nuclear vision reactors uh a mainstay of energy production here in the U S.

And I think that there are a number of techniques we can undertake uh for safer um uh uh can a building without all the regulatory cycles and process needed to get these things stood up you know china, as i've mentioned in the past, is over the next thirty years committed to building. Check this number out. I think we talk about this one hundred and forty nuclear power stations.

Um they are estimated cost, I believe on the three billion dollar per station range. They are um gonna increase their total energy production capacity with these nuclear power stations um on the order of fifty and twenty percent. So they will take coal offline as they bring those online um or they will kind of start to have a cleaner mix of energy rather than building an action infrastructure.

So um you know if we have the united states intend to be an economic chAllenge to china the century, if we intend to compete effectively with them, we are gonna a really hard time with energy Prices being what they are here in this country. China is already thirty to forty percent cheaper than not on an industrial scale basis with their current energy infrastructure. And when their nuclear comes online over the next decade, their Prices are going to drop even further.

Nuclear should be in the four to five cent per kilo one hour range today. China's in the kind of you know uh seventy eight and particularly what hour range the U S. For industrial, I think is in kind of a nine and ten cent range a tencent, depending on where you look.

So you know they're already cheaper. They're gonna get even cheaper. And so not just from like what's the right transition from a security point of view, but energy is going to be so critical in this next century for us to maintain our footing as a competition to china, particularly as a big, big about this for a second. If automation is the future of manufacturing, that electricity and energy ends up being the biggest cost driver for those systems. And if if everything is aren't parody to everyone, got the same automation systems.

whoever got the cheaper energy wins and to tell you N S both positions, a friend of us said, hey, you know, nobody wants to live near nuclear power plants and they've already got the great going there because he has to be there, surround the nuclear power plant with a solar farm because it's the most efficient way. So actually pairing these two things, perhaps you, even with some batteries, solve the the entire problem.

What do we think sax, is the eventuality here in terms of the relationship between russia and china now that we've rapped up the energy? And then, you know, are all of us, I think, don't want to code war here. So I guess there's two questions here of escalation and i'll let you pick which one you want to go for escalation with taiwan or because, uh, if putin is not held, if we don't hold the line here, you know putin picks another country to uh or another region to go after in twenty twenty three, twenty twenty four. At what point do you say we've got to hold the line?

Well, I mean, I think the line is we have existing nature treaty obligations to protect the members of nato. On the article five, we have to come to their defense. Ukraine is not one, georgia is not one. So to me, that's the line is our existing treaty obligations.

And this is why we should not want to add some these countries tomato is because IT involves us in there disputes and drags this and toward, you know, on twitter, all I hear is that this is one thousand nine hundred and thirty eight all over again, and we cannot appease a dictator. And that is one lesson of history, is an important lesson. However, there are other lessons of history.

And IT seems to me that the situation in could be more like nineteen fourteen, which is war. War one, what happened in war world? One, basically conflicts between minor powers, drag major powers into wars.

And that basically germany gave, uh, austria this so called blank check war guarantee. And then that LED to a war with russia, and then that drag the a you brit in Franklin and eventually the united states. So, you know, IT was a case where nobody, none of these powers, wanted to be in a war with each other.

And yet somehow a ntia and threats and escalates and miscalculation and fly, all sort of tumble their way into IT. And that I think may be the historical person here that we want to avoid. I think we need to be very careful not to let know every conflict all over the world dragons into these these types of the um wars and disputes.

Sex, you think um american primacy is coming to an end.

I hope but if if our goal is to preserve american primacy, which I think IT should be, then we need to be smart about how we use our strength and we don't want to friend away and what have been doing for last twenty years frideric away our strengths in wars we didn't need to be in in the middle east. We spent how many trillions on nation building there that turned out to be a total volume. Waste of money.

Uh, look at this and we are a thirty trillion dollar debt. If we want this century to be an american century like the last one, we need to preserve our strength and use IT wisely and not involve ourselves every conflict. And so look, we need to protect our nature allies. I agree with that, but we don't need to be creating disputes and and involving ourselves in wars .

that we have no obligation to get involved. American Price, and it's possible, but it's gonna quire a lot of pressing cycles. I really think the team that I just made up really quite genius, which is redirect that three trillion dollar build back Better build to just pure solar everywhere.

They about states. IT would be so disruptive. I mean, that would just be .

so disruptive to know to somebody IT becomes a dividend. It's like it's U. B, I. In a way, everybody gets no electrical bill.

I I don't think you would allow people about electricity forever, but I do think I would subsidize basically the disappointment of energy infrastructure to every single household in amErica in a way that would just completely shake up, uh, Frankly, the political rural order because you know what you guys said is so true, a lot of this stuff rests on you know the politics around natural resources, right? So you know today it's oil um tomorrow it's going to be some rare or.

You know, in ten years, that could be copper and lithium. And we want to find ourselves with the ability to be clear, I and focus in our response to these issue. But if we need critical resources that can only come from one other for two other places, and we don't have the engineering engineering that figured out how to, you know, deliver our reliance, and we're going to get dragged into not just this conflict, a whole bunch .

of other conflicts, food, I say yes. And we could be energy independent for free right now if we are destroy peals in these executive waters. I mean, we were energy independent like a year two ago until we ban Franking. why?

Why do the Franking when soler available? IT seems to me we want to actually preserve the environment, stop global warming. So if solar is available and nuclear is available, why would you advocate for tracking and ripping up the earth and polluting IT?

I'm a fanatic. Lar is really just about cost and time to deployment.

God, okay, so you see IT as a bridge. Hey.

maybe we do IT for five years, ten years, long time. I S, I think the long term.

the other thing is confounding, like americans. And this is another thing. I was just watching the media, and I did exactly what you to David d, as I put on fox, as I can let me get their interpretation of this, because the trump folks are praising pun.

And then these guys are wanting to go to worse. So IT feels like there some inner conflict, or of war going on in the republic. excited.

But even on the on, yeah, and on the left, you have this craziness, uh, they were, I mean, wolf blitzer and everybody was so excited about the scale. They were like, stay tuned and and oh my god, we're gonna be twenty for our coverage. They were like orgasmic in their .

coverage. Remember, CNN got their big art, the world. I was a little.

that is the language freeway existence to be there, that was the language they were using. So don't let me with saying, and we have the full resources to give you blow by blow coverage of everything happening. Stick CNN.

This is where we do our best work. And IT was little like war porn, and IT was really uncomfortable to watch, combined with sex. And this is what I wanted.

What maybe feber got? Throw this one to you. They kept talking about how americans were gonna suffer at the pump.

And I just thought, this is so crazy to stoping, there's one hundred and ninety thousand Young russian man who are gonna die, countless ukrainian civilians who are gonna die potentially. And this thing could escalate a sux, you know, you can't play games with work. Could the dominos can fall in all directions, and you have no idea when you light off these great adds.

And and we're talking about our pain at the pump. Very weird, very weird, very broken. Any thoughts? AmErica is weird.

I want, if if freeboard doesn't, to respond to that. I I want to talk with the media coverage all add to that. I mean, you foot over M S N B C. John bolton is on M S N B C.

And one of the weird dest things happening in our politics now is that all the neocons who used the members of republican party who work for w bush and into the iraq war have now all become democrats and they're all over closely the the consciences of the country, over on CNN and M S N B C. A beating the drums of war. It's absolutely unbelievable.

And one of the one of the tactics I used, I think we should talk about is, and this goes all activity on war, is that anybody who merely tries up, let's say, understand the other side, or once A D equator will get out of a conflict, they try to portrayed on patriotic. I mean, this again, this goes all be back to the vietnam war, where the vem protesters were portrayed as on american and unpatriotic. Well, turns out they were right.

That was a mistake for us to get embroiled in vietnam. And similarly, the iraq war IT. Turns out that was a gigantic mistake. But in two thousand, three David from is like one of the leader's this group rotten article called unpatriotic conservatives in which he attacked.

And sort of, mom, they were, you know, conservative, like pp, you can Robert know back who are against the iraq war, and he called them on patriotic and implied that they were unamerican because, and somehow in the pockets of storm who, seen because they were against us, are involved in iraq war. Will they turn? They turn out to be right.

And yet they were demonized and dn patriotic. And where are we today? Those same people are seeing David from on twitter now in pune, the patriotism of people who merely want us not to escalate this, not to get involved and maybe to try and understand our enemy.

Because you mean this is one. The problems with twitter ized. Our foreign policy is, look, we can see who is an agreed, we can see him as a dog or an authority or as a dictator, but nonetheless, we should still trying to understand our enemy. And anybody who tries to promote a greater degree of understanding or diplomacy gets attacked by these people as being put in apologist. But you said you didn't .

see in this company thought was a very small probability. I think we all felt there was a prety small probability that russia would actually go through this. You thought I was actually something I actually I do freeburg. You did think I was gonna en as a certainty. Yeah we you there was a certainty that america, we get involved because of the wag the dog scenario or that putting would do IT because both.

Yes, this is not like a surprise. I put in IT this. I mean, this is been a long time company.

Yeah I mean, just felt like I I, I thought that he would say a rattle and we come to some resolution here. And but what does he want? IT seems like nobody. And this is what everybody .

keeps saying. And by the way, adding that a really complicated question feel like this decades of and layers of like to the story, it's like, you know warm peace and then you read like one half of the final chapter and you're like, oh, okay, there's a lot to the story that's going to be really hard for us to pack. Um so you know i'm much sure there's a very simple like what is putin want as much as there a significant narrative back history you know, post soviet history with ukraine and the relationships. I mean, you guys may remember that there was a president, a presidential canada president that was poison by putin at some point I mean has been like a long history of this that I don't think is something .

that we can what reunification is, what mostly would put that under this.

There's economic, there are social, there are individuals cultural um motives. I think there is a lot driving this. There is a lot of influence within the country that I don't think we really fully grasp within the country of russia. I mean that we don't fully grasp related to some of the uh cultural relationships with some of the population in the in the ukraine. And so you know it's a very difficult question to simply answer.

Chicken.

can I get out of IT? Yeah, sure. okay.

What does putin want? So I want to there was an article by Peter byarnie was an ember of the new europe public. He's not you know some far right conservative whatever um he published this uh quotes from a memo that was written by biller ns back in two thousand eight.

So a billboard is the current dcs of director central intelligence ahead of the CIA. He is also a russian expert. He speaks russian fluently.

He is the he and he spent uh many years over there uh in our government and he works for biden, his biden of the cii. So he is the highest ranking russian expert in our government. In two thousand and eight, he wrote a memo to under rise was in the secretary state.

And what he said is, this is about ukrainian entry, tornado o, he said, ukrainian enti in tornado o is a brightens of all red lines for the rationally, not just putting, he says, in more than two and a half years of conversations with key russian players, from nuckles dragons in the dark recesses of the criminal to putting sharpers libel critics, I ve yet to find anyone who use ukraine and nato as anything other than a direct chAllenge to russian interest. So burns pointed out to the then secretary state that this was a huge red line. And since then, since two thousand and eight, putin has been very consistent, that ukrainian entry in tornado has been a red line.

And even in the speech that he gave last week, he talked about, he talked about this and he said that i'm quoting put from his speech, he says if ukraine was to join nato, IT would serve as a direct threat to the security of russia. So, you know, in response to putin speed, and on twitter, I keep hearing that putin is this mad man. We can understand what he wants, that the only possible explanation for his behavior is either silly, he's gone crazy.

He's gone mad. And you know, i'm looking at this. I'm like, okay, maybe those things are true, but you can't say that he hasn't been clear about what is red lines are he's been saying this for twenty years that ukraine joining the nato alliance is an abode red line.

And I mentioned before on this pot that imagine if the cold war still going on and the war saw paxil existed. And you know, Justin trudeau was gna lead canada into the warsaw pack. We would absolutely be up in arms about that. We would not let that happen IT is that kind of issue for putin. And we just act like this guide is in saying, has no point of view or not. We don't have to believe he's right, but to basically say that his he has no interest a in russian security that we need to give any weight to that we just need to dismiss all of his concerns out of a hand in this year. This is not the history of the situation.

Yeah did you read anybody read metal in all rights? Um near time space was pretty interesting because he was uh in the position when they first met him and he's been talking about the ukraine and reunification for twenty years and it's probably a good lesson for the entire planet that dictators are going to a know they they have a certain to your point to month of like having well and capabilities a lot of people have capabilities. A lot of people don't have well to start wars anymore on this planet and and he clearly is in that room.

I think hard, I don't know. Here's the thing, by not taking nato off the tables and issue. We don't know whether his true aim here is the restoration of the russian empire or merely to avoid, you know, this border country being part of a military alliance that he uses a threat. So I don't know what the answer is.

part or door. Number three, he wants more attention and he wants to be more .

globally relevant, right? But we made the mistake of not taking this issue of the table. And so if we are taking the issue of the table, then we could get to the real heart of the issue.

Maybe you would a defuse situation and to have done IT, right. It's not just us in this. The people in you have a big say here as we're discussing this on on a thursday, february twenty fourth, a byan has announced a coalition partners eu, australia, others are doing, uh pretty uh, significant sanctions IT seems limiting, uh, russia's ability to do business in dollars, euro in, yeah imposing major sanctions on the russian banks, trying to cripple the rubble, blocking form major russian banks, freezing all of their assets in america, adding sanctions to russian elites. I guess that's the Oliver class. And russia's largest state on enterprises will no longer be able to raise money from, uh, coalition of government. Biden assumes this will degrade their military advanced ment.

And other funny russians started. So h right, when I was, when I was still running, when I was managing a not just my money but other people's money and I was raising suns. Uh eventually you know you uh you get A L P commitment um for all kinds of people interested in investing with you.

You're generating grape or just right mean, you know rich family office all around the world wanted give you capital and there's a very strict cess in amErica where when you get capital in um you have to make sure that those folks basically pass uh um you know an anti money lin chao know your customer kind of checks k one these checks and one of these checks is actually a agree list in a black was that treasury and the D O J kind of manage um and every now then we'll put people on and off the list. And there is a very famous person in russia. I won't not say when I was raising money for my last fund.

This is probably in two thousand years. He was on the he was not on the list very well. And I thought that this is a great opportunity to get somebody who seems to be doing a lot of really interesting goods.

And and not less than two or three weeks after we assigned their own agreement, uh, I think he was the O, G for the on this. And we get, we get a an email, basically a terror. L, P, A and h. You can take the capital and we had down to to the entire limited partner. Rem, um crazy one .

percent of the .

fun with that person, bit of five ten .

percent or something. So I guess.

hey Jason, I just wanna go back on a point time made about energy and energy independence earlier because I actually pulled up the number of so you know the average costs um per kilo what hour uh in the um in china right now about nine cents uh for um for energy production IT is estimated uh that um nuclear power production should drop to about four cents but could be as low as one cent per kilo an hour if Operated at scale with perfect efficiency just to give everyone a sense of where are not just security risk and cut of the Green opportunity lies but also where economic advantage lies uh in investing in nuclear infrastructure. And so as china built out a hundred and forty nuclear plants here over the next two to three decades, they're going to see their energy costs decline from about nine cents for industrial use um potentially you know into the sub five cent per quila what hour range which makes them tremendously competitive on a manufacturing in point of view.

a lot of big in service, a lot of hash.

I think it's never going to happen. Um i'm not I I love is going to have nuclear and I think american amErica ability to skill nuclear, I think is a very difficult proposition. And I think our real solution is the solar is practical. They can be done today and they .

can be done right down. And just to look at the E. U.

Versus the U. S. In terms of gas mallet's, which is just stunning, the E U. Has Mandate and .

the american doesn't have the result. It's like it's like we have to we have across so many bridges and you we have to really can point a bunch of issues that we um that have been rigged with so much in accuracy. You know example of the environmental impact, the understanding of how nuclear energy works. The nimbi is in Jason, that you refer to about not being able to give these things is all around the country. And so reducing the foreign tor, my thing in is a technical chAllenges I think we can overcome, but IT still leaves the policy and the societal level chAllenges that I think are very difficult to make because you're talking about rewriting history in many ways and and convincing, you know, hundreds of millions of people, but things that they had thought were true or no longer true. And I think that's much, much harder than we give a credit form in cars.

As a perfect example, americans now where averaging twenty four miles to the gallon, the eu is Mandates fifty seven miles per gan in twenty twenty one. They're getting a done in the eu. There twice as effective.

I tweet, he, listen americans, we need to buy Better gas knowledge cars and moved to evs. And I was fed with qua backlash. I mean.

alist the the issue because the car and is too expensive for us to build. Two different for california, one for the rest of america.

The already building once three E U.

just to give you one counter point to your statement about energy independence arising potentially from solar to generate A G capacity and industrial scale solar farm would take about seventy five hundred acres. You so that's about the right.

I don't think that I I don't think that I that I think I think a very simple solar installation and everybody is with a simple battery, is more than enough to basically give people the power they need. And then these big C N I installations of happening on top of all these big buildings will cover the rest.

And I think you'll still have some amount of that speakers usage and maybe you can have some of a solar or fibre or wind um but people are experimenting and figuring out the battery storage capability to supplement this. I think what we don't have is that three percent reset solar, we don't have a credible alternative. But you know eighty percent rise solar um with battery systems in everybodies home, which is a tractable solution that cost thousands lars, for which the government could subsidize, would be a great news of capital. I think we'll be transformational for logy that would completely rewrite the end to so.

So again, to do that today would cost uhh cause when you do something on a residential roof, IT costs a lot more than doing on an industrial scale. So when you build a seventy five hundred eight facility, you get economies of scale. You get single tubes.

Everything can run off one wire. When you build them on the roof, you need contractors to come in, and you got to win the home. You ve got to put batteries in.

So the actual advertise cost over the lifetime of that solar installation works out to something on the order of fifteen incense to kill. What hour? Or as if you do an industrial scale that works out about three cents a kilo, one hour. So you know your point makes sense, but IT IT IT makes things more expensive. So then the question is the delta, and if someone actually gonna pay for that delta to make this.

you're the next years we're going to spend millions and trillions of dollars on nothing. Those trillions and trillions of dollars could probably, whatever your gap is, I don't know whether your map is right, wrong. But whatever the gap is, that gets us to china as an example, in terms of the cost for killing about hour, the government could substance, and there is a quantifiable number.

And if we had if we decided whether IT was worth at or night, we can decide that on. All i'm saying is it's something that we need to put on the table because every time a new president comes into town and gets elected, they generally get this one big shot on goal. You know the last few presidents have tried either, you know contact us. So basically give these massive um economic emely with packages and the net dollar effect of these things now influence and I suspect the net you cost of subsidizing and up solar energy that you get a be deploy is also in the trillions of dollars. And we should .

just right just IT is a quick Matthew to booster trim's point he almost nailed IT. exactly. There are eighty five million standalone homes in the us.

To 吧。 I'm just going to sume none of them for the sake of this argument and have solar on them. But three percent do I think um average cost of putting solar on homes twenty to thirty five thousand I picked the number thirty thousand.

Yes yes, how is that? But but in australia.

and okay, they have a cheap er system or something.

No, it's because of .

all the so but just to give the rock cost here, if there was three thousand dollars to put on any .

thing you can do IT, you can do IT for five thousand dollars the home, because australia, which in one sixty sides of amErica is able to do IT with no subsidies, directed the consumer five thousand dollars in installation. So that Price is possibly.

I going to pick the thirty thousand dollar crazy Price in america, two point five trillion dollars to put solar on every home. The end, like you were, thirty trillion dollars in debt. Ten percent of our debt would make us energy independent forever. The plan gets Better when you do math.

Think the amount of savings you do to the american. Think of the lack. I don't know if he saw this, but there is A U. N. Report without the criticality and importance of emerging wild fire threats to our ecosystem in our ecology. I don't, you know, for all of us that lived in california, you guys remember how the sky was orange and red two years ago. Angle reliance and these utilities infrastructure, the forest fires, the air will be cleaner um people will be more resilient. Think of the times that for example, in texas, whether is a massive fees right where people were shut out of, they couldn't have power because the actual traditional utilities were shut down, IT is only two and two hundred dollars done this yesterday. I can't believe the numbers that well, considering the things that when we put to a trillion dollar of .

things that to the cost of upgrading, i'm just pulling some numbers off of the internet. but. Um replacing uh uh electrical gray would be five trillion. So if you think about the replacement cost, which which are going to have to do at some point in the upgrade cost of five hundred illiac h or the maintainance of average million a year, this actually starts to seem very reasonable and achievable if we had the will, which means we need to have some politicians who actually aren't in the pocket a bit.

The number of jobs, and I would create if he actually ran with this then. And because you do need for a lot of local installation capability and other jobs, you would create hundreds of thousands, maybe even in million of jobs in the united states. They would be really well paying. Um and you'd pushing us towards a completely energy, independent clean energy we know, uh, zero carbon future translation.

I wonder how many hours of work IT is to install. You could actually do that math as well and figure out how many jobs you create and then how much tax those people pay and then how much they spend of that money to put back into the economy. You're probably getting a thirty forty percent rebate on that two point five trillion dollars. So becomes even Better because of the high paying jobs, right? The markets are h tanking a obviously, over the last couple of months, that is down eleven percent year to date.

And of course.

a lot of the growth socks, we talked about this over and over again, from zoom to netley, facebook, spotify, coin based, really all down over fifty percent. Uh, today the market went down five, six percent on the news and then rebounded. Is this all Priced in? And is this the bottom of the market? Kathy wood is supposedly um buying and I don't know if it's net buying or SHE just reallocating. But uh or are we now in the bargain hunting period of the market? And and we gotten .

out the smart folks that I talk to, who I really know a look up to the respect, think that the bottom in the sop is around thirty eight hundred and that what we still need to do is is one last rush and that last wash will really touch the big cap um companies. But that uh growth is largely um done sort of getting taken to the witch.

And so in general, I can create so generally buyers are broke down and sellers of value and waiting for this one last you know four hundred point move down the S M P. And I think people think it's rock ly the bottle. Now there's a moral bore, obviously, who knows all that's so sex.

what's more shocking that were almost at the bottom or there's people in the markets that trim's really respect.

which is, well, street king of people that we respect. I think black and I really want to take on this, which .

is sorry, all so uh.

gers publish a couple of charge showing basically multiples in the internet index and among sas companies over the last whatever dozen years or so. And what you can see is that over the last two years, during covet, there is a huge Spike in multiples for international companies, for such companies. And that over the last, really since november last three, four months has now come down.

And as of, I would say, last week, I was right out about the historical trend and now IT starting to go under the historical trend. So from a bargain and hunting standpoint, you'd have to say that this is the first time that we've been below the the average um for a few years now. It's not to say I can't go down even more because in the same way that you can be above trend, you can also be below trend. And if this war escalates methodized, I will go down more. But if this conflict can stay localized um and the economy doesn't go into a recession because everything has happened, then yes, this might be bargain hunting.

Here is the chart for we take a look at from january twenty to january twenty two, the two years of the pandemic. And I think this is time ford looking cells. If I am reading a correct, I don't have the full charge here. I just have a screen shot of IT.

a portion of IT. Yeah I think it's enterprise value. Enterprise value divided by like for looking revenue, which is A R um and so yeah .

we had this fifteen x we went up to forty fifty x private market deals going at one hundred two hundred x um those days are over a big time. Uh and h it's sleeve talked about that and not say what are the interesting things that i'm seeing is I think people are looking at businesses that have been corrected and um saying, hey, what is the true value of this and the I think the best example is paton new CFO the CFO I got that flix .

I love love .

you you out and stay safe and enjoy your vacation. Cheers now so I just without your mattheo you want to talk a little bit of you guys watched what happened with paton and the CFO coming in and just really revitalizing that business very quickly.

But I would just i'll say one thing, I think um two weeks ago, uh, if you pulled the market, I there will probably have or if you looked at the the the trading Prices of bonds, you probably would have assumed a ninety five percent chance of a half point rate hike and march and um as of today, my guess is that the probability of that is below five percent and you're probably assuming you know um a quarter point retire or maybe even a deferred uh at this point. And I think that's one of the things that's keeping the market up instead of tanking so much.

Uh, this morning are predicting that it's been such bad news that i'll push IT out .

yeah they are assuming that under the conditions of great uncertainty like this, the fed cannot act as aggressively as they were planning to act interested as a result that that rate hike um would be pushed out and IT would continue to kind of keep Prices uh somewhat inflated h and continue to support the market with cheaper a capital and and liquidity.

So you know a lot of uh capital around the world is gonna get locked up as armed conflict kind of comes to bear. Um and when that happens, you know markets will tighten up and Prices will be affected. And so the fed in in traditional in typical times, we want to have an incentive, have a motivation to uh you know inject liquidity into the markets.

Um and so this is not a great time to do a half point right hike. And so it's almost certainly this point that they are not going to do. A half point rate feels .

to be like huge set up right now. People have capitulate, the markets gone demolished. I just think some these companies are still great.

great businesses out there and some great companies to invest in some great stocks to buy all the from technology through to industrials uh through to um you know even some of the energy companies that are going to benefit greatly from the commodity cycle or kind of in middle of um and so there's gonna, you know um I I think an opportunity to move away from uh speculative um behavior into real kind of Cherry picking productive cash generating um businesses in the next um uh you know or or or even growth businesses that are actual um you know value craters uh so versus being like ten years speculative kind of bet.

So is a great time to kind of be looking for businesses you really like to own h to identify them to make investments and to hold those investments for a very long period of time. Uh, you know you're not going to find a lot of market conditions like this. I think we all went back to march of twenty twenty and your member, the S P was twenty three hundred, is going to buy this I ever got around.

And first, at that point, you pick businesses that you knew we're going to be durable business is and you love and you thought we're going to have legs to them. You bought everything alphabet to disney, uh to lucky Martin. Uh, you know you could have done um tremendously well.

So now a great time to kind of be looking for businesses that you really like and to buy stake them. Forget forget about trying to time the bottom. That's a false and right.

I don't know if you want to buy stuff you want to hold for ten years, things are relatively cheap to a time arizon the sex point IT out and um and gars girl pointed out. So things are relatively cheap. Find businesses you like to own and bim team.

they could get cheaper, but they're kind of at the bottle. You the whole I think the .

whole time frame around like speculative stuff is kind of White out like I think that errors gone out. What do you?

Well, it's it's that plus I think one of the things that happened is that people are realizing now that the burst of activity, especially like an e commerce type companies that happened during the pandemic, that was not ongoing sustainable growth, that was one time growth.

In fact, in many cases, IT was sort of worse than one time growth, which is IT was pull ford growth, meaning that growth in the future be lower because you pulled forward all of that remote. why? I think pale time might be a good example. Everyone bought them during the pandemic. But then after pandemic, everyone who needs one has .

got one ready. So could be cars is are right? So what what happens .

only have most poles gone down. But these companies were being calm to based on growth rates were sustainable. And so now they're all revising their forecasts down.

So it's the double ami and and brads made this point. But what's interesting right now is the markets are actually rilling. And um I think that might be because of this latest biden news at this press conference.

So the important point here is that biden did not sanction putin directly. There is talk about thanking ing him personally or and he also did not remove russia from the swift system, which like through the key banking system. And I don't know this is because biden doesn't want to do IT or because europe want to support the move.

Pretty clear, europe doesn't want to do IT. So no one is willing to suffer too much economic last year to defend ukraine, never mind sending troops. So IT seems to me that the signal here is that um both military and in terms economic interest, europe does not want further escalation and that maybe why the market is rilling. Also the fed may hold off on interest increases while this is all going on. So you sometimes markets connect in funny ways.

Well, they're ford looking. People are putting money at stake so they have skin in the game. So it's you know, the people can talk all they want about what's gona happen with the markets.

But unless they're placing bets, that kind of cheap talk. And here, people are actually placing bets on socks. They think. Will do well in the future.

Skin the game. People look that their economic interests are skin in the game, having people, people lesson and daughters go off to fight and die in some foreign war. That is al skin in the game. What is not skin in the game is people tweet, you know, there are more on age and condemnation and whipping things up and you know, we should not be listening to the and calling everyone who disagrees them traders because that's happening to this is a time for cooler .

heads for prevail. You and I are going to actually agree on this and we're both gone agree that trump on ao should not be funning over putin.

You never committed on that.

Let's get people want to get us get into IT what? I mean you can support them funding over put in like that, do you? I can't imagine you.

I heard, I heard what trump said when he was saying. I didn't hear the pump a quotes.

I can speak to that a genius.

Look, listen, you know, sometimes trump is being sarcastic when he says things like, oh, what a beauty. You know, he've means the opposite. And I think the point trump was making wasn't really about putin being so great. The point I heard trump making was that if he were president, this would would be happening. Now you can disagree with that. IT may be true or untrue but that was the real point is making I think that you're letting you know the political partisans try to whip this thing up and is part against part of this um meme of anybody who doesn't support what I want must be a trader, must be in the pocket of truth of putin.

We have to use this mean warfare to get people free berg to shame these politicians into backing like the solar plan and doing something meaningful like this like and backing nuclear, how do we get the politicians to reflect energy independence as a priority? IT feels like that. It's not a priority for them.

Well, I mean, the one one of the good things about american democracy is that politicians are generally pretty responsive to what their constituents want to believe. So they use polling data, and that polling data drives, you know, if if they want to get reelected, they Better do what the the polls you're telling them people want them to do. And so ultimately, if you can kind of influence people broadly in the united states, uh, and that can that can go both ways, by the way, a special interest .

to and and you have people with weird ideas.

right yeah generally I give something is deeply unpopular. A politician risks not getting reelected. They're not going run to do that. And if is very popular, even though may not be the right thing by some objective framework, uh, you know they would still run to do that. So you know I do think that there is you know some degree of a of work to be done around you know framing for people broadly. You know the other work maybe that we do on our podcast, but I think more importantly, on a repeated way and in a way that kind of inspiring um uh and inclusive will drive people to kind of want to see these changes happen and .

ultimately politicians should respond. You you know who today would be concerned, you know, in the words of genoa c parody, russian talking points, barack obama, if obama today he we're after saying exactly what he told the the atlantic magazine back in there was two thousand twelve or fourteen, if he was saying that today he be accused of being in putts pocket and being put an apologist and a trader, all this kind of stuff because he said that in that interview he said, listen, putting was always very business like he was punctual, he showed up.

He wanted to negotiate a deal. Basically he sounds like a guy who, look, we may disagree with him about everything, but he wasn't a mad man. He was someone .

you could actor.

He, he was a college, ruthless but rational actor. And that's basic what obama said, he someone you could talk turkey with. And if you say that today, that, hey, maybe we could negotiate our way out of this with putting you accused of being, you know a puppet of .

his yeah the concept of starting a war uh, in this day in age is just it's crazy like and this is crazy that he's starting this war and putting all these people at risk and we don't even know what the goal is. Not even ask for anything like what is he exactly asking for so he may not be he may have been rational than, or maybe obama trying to steer him towards rationality and praising him publicly to get that more rational food to show up. This feels like irrational, that we don't know what is goal is like the fact that the world can say, if we gave him ex, he would do why, as I think his strategy, putins always like to be this like unpredictable madman.

right? No, I mean we just said that he's a coldly ruthless, rational actor, a sort of the opposite of a mad man I mean his red lions have been clearly been stating them for for years um that the problem is that again we're .

conducting to murdering opponents of oh there's .

no question that he is ruthless. He's an authoritarian calm editor if you want i've tweet in support of elections of all yeah so I get IT but that doesn't mean he's a mad man um he has desires and interest and it's the job of diplomats to figure out how to conduct diplomacy, negotiation with people you disagree with. And one of the problems we have today is, again, we have twitter ized everything.

So you know, we basically figure out the first step is, who are the people who should be cancelled? You know, who's wearing the White hat, who's were in the black cat was all rise up and virtue signal and moral denunciation. And you stick our fingers in our ears and not listen to the other side and and listen that that is a way to find yourself in greater conflicts, not avoid them.

right? So just wrapping up here, let's let's wrap with sax is favorite part of the show saxes favorite moment where he super engaged and learning. He's got a thinking cap on, he's taking notes and that is the science corner. No, not corner.

I thought you said fandel.

my favorite in a twitter space.

who you really loves IT, because twitter is all about veneta.

But I have no veneta this week. Then three.

with your time. Yeah.

i'm trying to advocate that this is time for cooler has prevail. And so the fuck.

I started with something hard. You fight program.

nobody said I don't.

Think finding over anything, not I, not that I can take go right for the dictator to moth polio petition sulton science David freedman g in the rain man himself to have a sx i'm jacket out and we will see you all the all in summit in may fifteen, sixteen and seventeen. You can go to the website, summer, all in podcasting a co.

We can just type all in the all in summer into google and find IT make fifteen to seventy of the miami, florida we're doing IT out the new worlds symphony and we have a page there. We can vote on. Speakers can be three days of fun. We have a scholarship there if you can afford the regular ticket, and you can apply for a scholarship if you're a super fan, and look for you to seeing you there and go over some speakers, bye bye. Love you.

your winners, right?

man?

We open sources to the fans and .

got crazy with.

You should all just get a room, just have one big, huge, or because I like sexual attention and 没想到。

What you be good. 我 一定 只 给。