DEBATE: Is Everything Antisemitism | Candace Ep 19
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All right, guys, welcome back. So as promised, I told you that I had a very long discussion with Rabbi Barclay that went much more viral than I had anticipated. Strangely, I do like the guy. I think he's a little kooky, but I think he's honestly kooky and he lies a bit. But I don't know. I guess he's at the age where I just sort of go, oh, well, it's just like he's just like a crazy old man. But anyways, I did.

previously have Ami Kozak on, and I think that he was just a way more sensible voice on pro-Israel issues. And I know that because he saw these clips going viral and saw people pulling it out and pretending that Rabbi Barclay was the voice for pro-Israel, of course he's going to take offense to that, because who wouldn't when you feel like this person doesn't actually represent your beliefs? And so I wanted to give Ami a platform to kind of respond to that and to say and ask anything that he wanted to. So welcome back, Ami.

Thank you, Candace. Well, he's not here to defend himself. So I'm just going to speak to a couple of issues I thought weren't covered. And just I think, as you believe, you know, conversation and dialogue is the best. I maintain that that's the best way forward when these problems arise. And, you know, I mean, the last conversation we had was called Am I anti-Semitic?

And since then, I mean, you're definitely anti a few Semites, you know, like just a few. A few Semites? Which ones? I'm just kidding. But no, what I'll say is in all seriousness, I think where I'm identifying the problem as you're coming up and clashing with the Jewish community broadly, let's say, is that there is a difference between what's going on internally with you and what you feel in your own heart and mind. And I am not comfortable telling anybody that.

that they are something inside internally that they claim not to be. I don't think that's appropriate. I think someone knows who they are and what they are and what they feel. So when people label you an anti-Semite, you are this, naturally your defenses go up because you know inside what you are, what you feel, that you have relationships with Jews, that you've had enriching relationships with Jews and Jewish people and have no hate in your heart when it comes to this.

But the distinction I'm going to make is between what you feel internally and what goes on externally. And my concern as to what you've been doing, and I think for a lot of Jewish people, but I'll speak for myself here, is that externally,

The rhetoric, the types of things you've been engaged in on Twitter, the types of language you're using, this kind of conspiratorial, suggestive nature of talking about issues. We can get into the specifics of that, saying things like, what's really going on here? This is what they want. There's Jewish gangs going on and taking the actions of

particular Jews that you've had bad interactions with are nefarious Jews in history, and extrapolating off of that and generalizing off of that is emboldening antisemitism broadly and adding to a climate that's very disconcerting for Jews and for me too, to see that. And in a world post-October 7th, when we've seen mobs of people on the street supporting it, and I know that's not you, and I know that's not David we had a discussion with, but there are people who do support it proudly,

And to see rises in antisemitic incidences, have there been mistakes in the past where we called that antisemitism, where it wasn't there? Yes. But when we're seeing it now, for you to engage in this kind of rhetoric repeatedly in a pattern going on here, whatever's going on internally with you saying you're not antisemitic and you don't have hostile introduce, I believe you.

But to call out what's been going on externally and what you've been engaged in, to me, is not us trying or me trying to cancel you or control you or doing any of those things. It's engaging with you and making you aware of such things. And in our last conversation, there was a point you made that I wanted to address. We didn't get to it. But the idea of like Jews are doing well, you know, this perception that Jews are just doing well and we're comfortable. Now, if you took a snapshot in history right now, like I will not disagree that there's a lot of

prominent Jews and we've made a lot of impact and made a lot of positive contributions and are represented in a lot of ways. We're proud of that. And the reasons for that are because of...

are very clear, like, because we, in terms of culture and what we, what we value, there are things that you've advocated for during BLM and during Blexit, two parent families and education and scholarship and commitment to those things that's accomplished. That's, that's been very positive for our community. And so I, I wonder why there's not more admiration for that as much as it seems like there's suspicion for that. And I'll just close by saying in this opening part that, um,

that for us to engage with you on this issue and to call your attention to it is just to make you aware that even though Jews you perceive as doing well in this current moment, the history, it reveals to me a certain lack of awareness and ignorance to the history of repeated cyclical anti-Semitism that Jewish people and the Jewish community has faced for decades, a hundred years, millennia throughout history in every society we've ever been in. And to not be aware of that or sensitive to that

To make you aware that you are contributing to this climate, I think is important and it's important to engage on that. And I'm curious to hear if that's something that concerns you. Yeah, no, it doesn't concern me at all, really, because I think it's just overblown. I mean, I don't know why anybody would be offended to say that Jews are doing well in America. They are doing well in America. I don't say that as a way to slack off and say, oh, well, I guess we should point the finger and say that we should get everything. It's just a fact. Asians are also doing well. I mean...

I've said that plenty of times. No, but what about the conspiratorial language? I'm going to get to that. So that's the first thing. I'm not going to apologize for saying something that's abundantly true, and it's literally abundantly true. You could go and look at statistics that Jewish Americans are living really well, so I'm not going to pretend that they're not. To the second point about you saying that I'm engaging in conspiracy, even something as simple as saying when you say they, when did Jewish people suddenly—

get the right to the word they. Like that's even like, when did now they always means Jewish people. That's a, like, to me, that is such a leftist. Now we're taking this word and it implies that every time you use this English word that you've been using since you could speak English, this automatically means that you're talking about Jewish people and you need to be extra sensitive every time you type out this word because of October 7th. I just can't

I just can't subject myself to that. So if there's a specific allegation regarding a conspiracy that you think that I perpetuated, I would like to answer for it. But I would like a specific allegation and not just like you say they sometimes because they is a word and I have a right to use it. Yeah. Fair enough. Fair enough. I'm talking about in specifically when you're talking about.

a Jewish person that you feel that you've clashed with and then jump from that to say, what's really going on here? And not focusing on the actions of individual people, but to say, I'm just going to say it. Like there's Jewish gangs out there, or I'm just going to say it. Like this pattern of focusing on, you know,

Um, you know, not a lot of people know that in Nazi Germany, when they were burning books, the first Jewish first book they burned was a Jewish pedophile. Was that not something you talked about on the show? That was. So I'm just saying in an isolated context of of if we're having an academic discussion about certain things in history, I can understand wanting to be able to cover everything. But, you know, I'll give an example like.

Remember the incident you had with Ted Lieu where he deliberately took you out of context to make you look guilty of saying something you didn't say? And I thought that was despicable. It was so obvious what he was doing at the time. But I think sometimes what you're doing, perhaps inadvertently, is...

In resenting being taken out of context to make yourself look guilty, you take yourself out of context to make yourself look innocent. Yeah, but I don't take myself out of context. I say an entire episode of what I want to say very plainly, and then I'm taking it out of context because I think that after October 7th, a lot of people have grown hysterical, and they're looking for every time you talk about a Jewish person. Case in point, obviously, rather notoriously, when Andrew Klavan, and you just referenced it, talking about Magnus Hirschfeld and his institute being burned to the ground, you know, this...

Jewish pervert, happens to be Jewish pervert. Out of context, meaning that you stripped that I mentioned four Christians in that exact same monologue. Four Christians. I was talking about psychology and the fact that it was created by a lot of perverts. And I talked about four Christians before I got to Magnus Hirschfeld. How do you just completely strip that out and pretend that this was a monologue about Jewish people? Actually, what's really happening is that you are defending Jewish people because every time you hear a Jewish name, you think that you somehow have a right to

you know, defend it. And to the second point, and I'll tell you what really bothers me about this, when you say you're talking about Jewish gangs, Jewish gangs have always existed in America. So I don't know why this is like suddenly something that we're going, you can't say that there could plausibly be a Jewish gang. Yeah. You know who else is always existing? Black gangs. I talked about it regularly all throughout BLM, talked about gangs. I talked about black gangs.

gang violence the entire time today on my show. I was talking about Lil RT and how he's going to end up in prison. But for some reason, Jewish people think that they're just like in a special category where you're just not allowed to ever allege that they were in gangs, even though there's nonstop evidence in American history that Jewish gangs did exist. And

they had a ton of power. You know, you can go back to prohibition. You can go back to the Jewish gangs that, you know, were quite literally the Jewish Defense League that were putting bombs under people's cars. So to say that you can't imply, and it wasn't even me who implied, by the way, I was actually going back historically and talking about what Michael Jackson was implying as I was reading Diddy Doc

and saying that we keep hearing this allegation that's being made in Hollywood, to say that you don't have a right to even imply there's a Jewish gang is just a nonsense. If I have a right to imply there are black gangs and talk about black gangs, I certainly have a right to say that there are Jewish gangs and imply that there could be a Jewish gang.

I'm not saying you don't have a right or a legal right to say these things, but I'm just in terms of a pattern of things and an inference of things and assuming something. One of the things that you were astute at pointing out during BLM was that what was the fundamental flaw there? It's that

They were assuming that because of an incident with a white police officer and a black individual and something took place or somebody was killed, that must mean that there is a systemic problem of white racism targeting black people in the United States. And you spoke out against that. And so the generalization taking single incidences and assuming there's something bigger or grander going on is...

to me what you're doing with the Jewish community when you take certain instances that have happened historically or whatever and jumping to these conclusions in the way you're engaging with it. But I didn't jump to a conclusion. That episode was me quite literally reading through the Diddy Docs and the allegations that were made in the lawsuit. And then a TikToker did an entire video talking about how these were the same allegations that were made by Michael Jackson. And he didn't do that to create a conspiracy. It was quite

quite literally the person that was involved in the Diddy lawsuit was the person that was there when Michael Jackson died. So there was a direct tie. So again, you say I take myself out of context. You're taking me out of context. I wasn't like, here's an episode where I think that Jews are conspiring to control Hollywood. And again, like I said, if the feedback from these individuals during the time of BLM was, Candace, you can't talk about black people conspiring to commit

crimes and gangs that are rising up because of BLM, because slavery existed, and this isn't a racism, then I'd say, okay, fine, fair bait. But it feels exceptional to me that the same people who applauded me for this exact same rhetoric, and I'm going to give you an example here, David Horowitz, David Horowitz of the Horowitz Freedom Center, he's a despicable human being. How dare you give me a literal...

award, an award, and say, you are so brave for tackling BLM and talking about all of the ills of Black Lives Matter and talking about how we're using this one issue and they're destroying communities and they're doing all of that. And then when I say, oh, wow, look at this issue going on,

post-October 7th, you suddenly go, no, you're an anti-Semite of the week and you deserve to have your entire life destroyed. I just, I don't accept Jewish supremacy. And that's what it sounds like to me when you have individuals who didn't care when I said the exact same thing, who still don't care as I still cover black American issues like sexy red and Cardi B and talk about how their fame is completely fake and that there's some system that allows this fame to float to the top. And yet you're so sensitive if it has to do with a Jewish person. Also white people

The people that get the most coverage on my show are white people. I'm constantly pointing to what's happening in their TikTok trends and what they're doing, and they're not offended. So it actually, to me, is like snowflake culture that's gone writ large in the Jewish community, and they're just calling everything anti-Semitism, like Black Americans called everything racism in 2020. And I'm consistent. I find it boring, and I'm not going to be, like, persuaded against talking about these topics because there's a Jewish sensitivity.

So, this is a great conversation. I mean, Ami and I are just talking purely. You know what I appreciate? A brand that is not afraid to stand by me as I do that, a brand that allows me a platform to speak freely about the most important issues that we are facing as a country. That's why I'm so happy to say PeerTalk is still my wireless company. If you haven't made the switch yet, I encourage you to switch now. PeerTalk puts you on America's most dependable 5G network and offers unlimited talk, text, and plenty of data for just $20 a month.

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So go to puretalk.com slash Owens and you'll save an additional 50% off your first month when you make the switch today. Again, go to puretalk.com slash Owens and support a wireless company who shares your values. Right. Well, I mean, I find it really interesting because I think the way you're coming at it is as if

the Jewish community is acting woke and snowflakey. And the way I'm coming at it from seeing what you're saying is that, is like using woke collectivist sort of leftist tactics and sort of generalizing about groups and using the identity as paramount, as if that's relevant in any way to the stories you're covering. But I didn't-

I didn't say it was relevant. That's what I'm saying. I never said that it was relevant that Magnus Hirschfeld was a Jew. No more than I said that before other people that I had mentioned before I got to Magnus Hirschfeld, Sigmund Freud was also in that segment. He happens to be Jewish. But I also didn't say that there that.

their Judaism was the reason for this, or if you view it as a race, that because they're racially Jewish, that this was the reason for this. I never connected that dot. I simply said their names, and Jewish people got offended. They just cannot handle that there could have been a Jewish pervert that existed and had a weird sex institute, and he wasn't perverted.

I'm sorry. And Magnus Hirschfeld is a pervert. I find it weird and extraordinary that someone would race to defend a pervert. Like if someone was like, hey, here's a black pedophile. I'm not like, how dare you talk about this black pedophile? We're going to defend this black pedophile. How dare you talk about this at all? I find that to be quite bizarre. Like you don't you're actually not required because you're a Jewish person. And this guy happens to be Jewish to defend him. Magnus Hirschfeld, because he has nothing to do with the Jewish faith. Right.

Right. But if you went on to say in several pattern of episodes in which every time you said...

I'm not I'm just asking questions as a black pedophile. I don't know what's going on with black people, but something's going on here. And then when black people got offended, you'd say, why can't I make it part of the narrative is what you're making that up. You don't have several episodes where I said, I'm not going to. That's just you kind of saying that right now. You gave a specific example about Magnus Hirschfeld. And I told you this was an episode where I was talking about psychology and I had listed four Christians in that exact same monologue.

No, no Christians. No Christians were outraged because no Christians are snowflakes. Right. So they weren't like, why is Candace pointing out what the Christians are, that there were Christian perverts in the past? And yet the Jewish community post October 7th has gotten a little snowflakey. Everybody can see that, except even speaking to your point, by the way. And I'm sorry to cut you off here because this kind of even proves it further when we.

first began that conversation with Dave Smith and you were talking about these people online that hate Jews, these anonymous accounts. And I had a Jewish friend who had messaged me and asked me, can you publicly disavow these people that are saying bad stuff about Jews? What an absurd notion. Welcome to the internet. Every time I've logged on since I said I was anti-BLM, I'm being called a coon. I'm being called an N-word. I'm being called a house N-word. And I've never

reached out to my Jewish friends and said, "Hey, could you do me a favor and disavow these random accounts on the internet?" It's like, grow up. I'm sorry. If this is too much for you to handle on Twitter, log off. You're adults. This is how the internet works. Have you even played the stupid game the boys like to play? Have you ever read that chat on, what is it called?

not Grand Theft Auto. I don't know. I think it's Grand Theft Auto or one of the ones where they... Yes, there's atrocious things on the internet. Welcome to it. Where is everybody going to defend us from these anonymous trolls online? I'm like, goodbye. I'm sorry. I'm 35 years old. If you need your hands held because there's anonymous accounts that are saying mean stuff to you on the internet, then you got to log off.

You just got to log off. And you shouldn't be in politics at all. You really shouldn't. You're too soft to be in politics. Can I ask? I didn't bring this up in the last conversation because I think it just would have distracted from the issue that we were discussing. But something, a clear example of this that I'd say raises legitimate concerns. So, and I saw you talk about this with Piers Morgan, too, when he brought up Kanye West and those remarks. Okay, so I know you're bored of the subject, but just for the sake of clarity, what Kanye West said was,

I'm going DEFCON 3 on Jewish people, nothing to do with Israel, nothing to do with policies at DEFCON 3 on Jewish people. And you admitted, I think in videos after that, from what I've seen, and it could be stuff I haven't seen, but from what I've seen, you admitted I fumbled on that a little bit and I could have been more clear. The amount of, does it concern you, or you can see why it concerns us, that while you may have had a lot of information going on behind the scenes that may have clouded your judgment on how to respond to that, I would simply say, first of all,

you can have a personal relationship with somebody and a friendship with someone and care about them and not condemn and not condone what they say. In other words, so the inability to make that separation is,

Like, this is clearly not anti-Semitic if you're thinking about this. I mean, it clearly was. And does it concern you? And you see how it concerns us that many millions of people, lots and lots and lots of people responded positively to that. And when we see things like Kanye speaks truth or he's on to something. And then subsequent after that, going on Alex Jones and speaking the way he spoke about Jews and for that to be received positively.

The way it is. It's very, very, very unsettling for us. Can you see that? Yeah, absolutely. And I've multiple times said, like you just admitted, that I understand how people were perceiving this 100%. But that's not a... That Candace, it seems like she's not saying enough or she's not being defensive enough. And I also did an episode saying I can understand how my friends like Dennis Prager and Marisha Street may have read that. But also...

and this again gets into the conversation that we just had, when you're sitting with your friend and they're receiving text messages from someone that's threatening to take their children and drug them and they snap, like you can be also understanding to that. And obviously I had assumed he would

tell that to the public sooner than he had told them. So yeah, did I perfectly deal with that situation with one of the most famous people in the world who I happen to be friends with, knowing what he was going through, not just from one person who happens to be Jewish, Harley Pasternak, but also multiple people who were doing those things to him? It was an imperfect situation. It was almost an impossible situation. And I've owned that. I've said, listen, I totally get how you perceive that. And I am sorry that you felt that way.

I dealt with the hand, you know, and people said, I'll never listen to you again for it. You know, I've taken my punishment for it. And I'm, you know. But but to call it a perception when so clearly it was very clear what he said was so anti-Semitic.

Well, he wasn't. He was not talking about what he specifically wrote that tweet. He was talking about Jewish people in his life who he felt were messing with him. And I could give you more. I'm only judging the statement in isolation. I'm only judging the statement in isolation. Okay. I get it. But you knew that. So you're just saying, well, no, he meant all Jews. He didn't. He actually didn't, which is the reason why, as I was going through the situation, I was hoping he would be more understanding. And as people rightly pointed out, he then went on Piers Morgan and clarified instantaneously

that he didn't mean all Jewish people. And so, and I will say, I mean, this is, yeah, but I mean, that was weeks later. So you're talking, you can only hold me account to, like, you're talking about my response. Not you, I'm just, based on what you just said. Yeah, you're talking about my instant response to the DEF CON 3 tweet. That was the only statement that I had made, which was immediately after that there was stuff going on in his personal life that had inspired those tweets. But now to kind of hold the mirror up to you, and this is what I said to Piers Morgan, like, your reaction

The Jewish community reaction to that, very strong. Cancel Kanye. He's lost his entire life. His marriage fell apart. You know, he should never have a record deal a stadium ever again. And then...

But you're so forgiving when Bibi Netanyahu goes a literal DEFCON 3 on Palestinians. People are so forgiving when Rabbi Shmuley harasses me for two years openly. I didn't see if—where is the response? Where is the cancel Rabbi Shmuley? Get him out of here. He's awful. It's just not the same treatment. For whatever reason, Harley Pastor Nick's—

Text message to Kanye, okay? He should never be welcomed in polite society ever again. That is how demonic it was. Way worse than what Kanye tweeted about going DEFCON 3 on Jewish people. You're talking about going after someone's kids and drugging them. Okay, that's a real threat, not something that you're going, what does this mean? And I'm kind of panicking. That's a real threat. Nobody cared. It was a blip in the headlines. So that is the reason why people at this time

Then we'll say, okay, why does it seem that Jewish people are able to get away with more? You have a black man who did something, it was wrong, he got hit down. You have a Jewish person, they are just feeling so comfortable. Like Rabbi Shmuley, he's like, I can do a two-year open harassment campaign, no one's gonna touch me. What is that? If we can't call that Jewish supremacy, what can we call it? Okay, so first of all, the comments that Kanye made on their own

You knowing all that information is irrelevant to the fact that what he said was inflammatory and anti-Semitic. What was the rest of his tweet? Everyone always has DEFCON 3 on some Jewish people, but what was the other half of Kanye's tweet? On Jewish people? Yeah. But he went, what was the other half of Kanye's tweet? You tell me. Yeah, exactly. The other half of his tweet, he said that had been messing with him for too long. He didn't just say, I'm going DEFCON 3 on Jewish people and tweet. It's all everyone talks about. He didn't name individuals. Yeah, but it was very clear.

clear, but he was talking about something that was wrong. You could have guessed there was more here. There was more here because he said, who have been messing with me for too long. Okay. Right. But then as, as you look, as you agreed weeks later, he went on to Alex Jones and these things and said, I love Hitler and just doubled down on the anti-Semitism. Right. 100%. I'm not, you're not accountable for that. Exactly. Because what you're, what you're asking me is you're saying, Candace, your initial response when he said this tweet

This is what people have tried to hang me on. This was an example of anti-Semitism, was that you said, hold on here. He's not going to go blow up Israel. Okay.

OK, he's not going to war with Jewish people. Let's just hang on and allow him to explain this. That's literally all I said. And there was a cancel Candace campaign. I like that is what started Rabbi Shmuel's nonstop harassment of me, like me saying, let's hang on and hear what else he has to say. Like that was the greatest example of anti-Semitism that people could ever pull of Candace Owens. And I'm like, well, if that's your greatest example, like you're not sounding like you're not exactly presenting very strong evidence that I'm anti-Semitic, especially because I have owned that.

in the moment, again, me having too much information, did I fumble the ball? I wish I could have said more, but it wasn't my place to say what he was going through personally. And again, it is annoying that people always cut his tweet in half because he said more that would let people know that he didn't mean all Jews in the world, you know?

Did the rest of the tweets say that? No, I don't mean all Jews. I mean two specific Jews. Okay. What's interesting is from my perspective, just so you can understand, it's like from my perspective, Jews are one of the few people you can say, you know, it's...

There's two different things. People are watching two different screens here, Candice. It's like you're saying Jews are supremacists and you can't say anything about them. And I'm saying Jews are one of the few people you can say, and probably white people too, generally speaking, and it gets bundled into that as far as the left is concerned. You can say whatever you want about it and pretty much get away with it. Do you think if Kanye dropped an album tomorrow, it would do well? Well, he dropped an album and it went to number one.

Right. Well, that's because black Americans think that what happened to him was wrong, you know? So it's his own culture. I don't think Jewish Americans were the number one buyers, if that's what you're asking me. And so he... Well, not Jewish Americans, but he was able to get away with it. Well...

Talking about you no longer a billionaire, right? I mean he took away his Adidas deal and I listen I don't I'm not here You deserved it. I'm here only to defend what I actually said and how taken extraordinarily blown up It was as if I had actually sent the tweet that he said and yes the rest of his tweet was the funny thing is I actually can't be anti-semitic because black people are also Jews are actually Jews also pardon you guys have toyed with me and you've tried to black

blackball anyone, whoever opposes your agenda. That was his tweet that he wrote. That doesn't help. I don't think that helps. You guys have toyed with me. I would just imagine that when he said, and also the beginning of a tweet, I'm a bit sleepy tonight, but when I wake up, did you think that he was actually going to kill Jewish people when he woke up? I'm going to ask you that question. Did you think that when Kanye woke up, he was going to actually kill Jewish people, or did you think that he was going to go after certain Jewish people?

Did you think Jews were gonna try to kill you, the ones who were canceling you? - I literally never said that the people who were canceling me were gonna kill me. What are you talking about? - I think in, we don't have to name names, but in your whole beef with Rabbi Shmuel, are you trying to kill me? What, are you gonna kill me? - I said, what's next? I said, you've already done this, you've already said this, literally what's next? And that was very tongue in cheek. I didn't think Rabbi Shmuel was gonna hunt down and come kill me. It was tongue in cheek as if you've thrown everything at the wall here. What is actually next?

Can I ask you another question? Just this like a personal question. Because you said this album went to number one, certainly not with the Jewish community, but with the black community who sympathize with what Kanye was saying. Growing up, was there a lot of anti-white racism you came up against in the black community growing up, like against white people? It's a personal question because I'm just curious. What I came up against as a black person

Just like witnessing it in the community, in your experience growing up. In my experience growing up, everyone got along. Did you notice a lot of anti-white racism? And things have since gotten worse, which is quite...

quite weird to me. It's something that I think I've been trying to understand. And I think a lot of it has to do with politics and has to do with sensitivities that are being perpetuated really in the media. Like people are being propagandized into believing that they should see each other as other. But I feel like I always say the 90s was like the golden decade. Like everyone was like, cool. We all laughed at each other, made fun of each other for our differences. Like you could throw a Jewish joke, throw a black joke and we laughed. And then I would say it's

maybe since Barack Obama became president around that time, not trying to pin the blame on him, things have definitely dramatically shifted and people have gotten very- In race relations generally, you mean? Yeah. Race relations generally deteriorated. Generally people got along growing up. Right. Okay. And I'm curious as far as regarding the subject of anti-Semitism generally, I think this whole notion that you keep bringing back to of Jewish supremacy, which is interesting to me. Yeah.

Jews don't want to be held to a different standard than everybody else in terms of criticism. We just want to be held to the same standard. That's, and speaking for myself, seeing it as being held to the same standard as far as criticism. And like you said, Kanye's album went to number one. So therefore, I don't know if the social consequences of saying certain things, and listen, free speech, free speech, even hate speech can be protected speech.

That makes you free from legal consequences, but it doesn't make you free from any consequences when you say certain things. So to conflate the two, I think has been a mistake in this conversation about free speech. And my, my larger point was that, um, in terms of supremacy, which is such a loaded word, um,

First of all, yeah, I don't think anybody's inherent identity or immutable characteristic makes them better than anyone else. So I agree with you about equality, that we're all equal under the law and whoever we're born to and whatever group we belong to doesn't make us better or worse than anyone else. But...

Culture and practice and ritual, we all make kinds of different decisions and value judgments. For example, that we... And we... Everyone has sort of the groups they're close to that we all... And communities we come from. And we take pride in those things. So...

For example, do you think, your whole contention is like Jews think they're above scrutiny and better than everybody else. Not all Jews. I would never make that statement because that's a very broad statement. But like I've said, Rabbi Barclay is obviously a Jewish supremacist. I mean, that's like so obvious to me that he's a Jew supremacist. All right. I don't want to speak for him, but my point to you is like, you know, do you think Christianity or Christians who follow is better than

than other religions. - Yeah, that's why I'm a Christian. I think that if, I think-- - So would that make you a Christian supremacist? - Well, you're talking, Jews view themselves, a lot of Jews view themselves as a race, so I mean, Christianity. - Jews is multiracial, multiracial. - Honestly, that's the first time I've heard that because if you ask other people that are pro-Israel, they'll say that they view Jew as a race. Like if you ask them what their racial-- - As a people, as a people,

Yeah, so that's a bit confusing right so I don't know if I don't know who I'm you know what it depends on who I'm speaking to some people say to be a Jew is to be that you racially identify as a Jew other people say you know we are different than white people obviously even though we're from Eastern Europe we are our own race hence the entire reason like that many of them

Whatever. It's very confusing. But to answer your point, Christianity is a doctrine. And I believe that if Christianity was spread about the world, you would see a better world.

That is my belief. But it's not a race. So it's like there's nothing that's barring anybody else from having a Christian perspective. You can be a Christian tomorrow. Racial supremacy is a immutable characteristic. And I think if you even Googled it, I think it is now officially like Judaism is a race. It's considered like Jew is a race. It's its own set apart from other races. They don't consider themselves white. Do you consider yourself white?

Anti-Semites don't consider ... I'm from the Nazi regime. We're the ones who really delved into this whole idea of Jews being a race by blood, and therefore ... There's a racial component to being Jewish, but there are black Jews, there are white Jews, Hispanic Jews, multiracial, multiethnic that are all Jews. So just to dispel the notion narrowly that Jews is race, we also ... People can convert to Judaism, as you mentioned before. Right, so that's why it's very confusing. And therefore, you can't change your race, but you can't ... So Rabbi Wolpe, a

a man I really admire, who phrased it this way, that to be Jewish is to be part of a Jewish family, that you come from a peoplehood, from a culture. And there's nothing wrong with Jews feeling, to me, like they're mission driven to have a certain role in the world. To me, that's

okay, just like you are mission-driven as an individual and as a Christian, to feel that you have a role in the world to play. And part of the Jewish role that we believe is in terms of bringing godliness into the world. These are values that I would think you would also stand by and advocate for. And everybody, in other words, the fact that you think Christianity, everyone should be, it doesn't bother me that you believe that. In a world that we can respect each other's differences and we are a tolerant society, you can believe that. And as long as you're not forcing me to do anything...

I think that's great. And I can believe- I think everyone should be- Not in supremacy, but in dignity and difference. I believe everyone should be a conservative, a free market capitalist. Here are my reasons why, but- There are better ideas. So there's supremacists in terms of, the word supremacy is what I'm really objecting to when you use that word, because it is such a loaded term in terms of

I think it's just a misnomer for the situation to believe that you have a role to play, that you're proud of coming from a common culture and a common people that has contributed in a lot of ways. And even Christianity and Judaism have a shared history, and that's a beautiful thing. So I just don't, I reject that use of that language. I don't think it's helpful. And I think it's-

people just didn't hate you supremacists, right? So it's like saying, like, I reject the idea. Are there white supremacists? Yes. Are the majority of people white supremacists? No. Are there black supremacists? Yes. We saw that a lot during BLM, especially. They were making demands that were absolutely insane. And there was a lower value placed on white life.

Does every white, as every black person, a black supremacist? No. But you have to call it out when you see it. Right. But is everyone who criticizes you a Jewish supremacist? If you don't have the courage to call it out. And unfortunately, I think any person objectively listening to the conversation between me and Rabbi Barclay would reasonably acknowledge that he is a supremacist. Now, I don't find that to be problematic because what he says does not become law. You know what I mean? It's not like he says this and suddenly it's law and his perspective prevails. So you don't have to care. No. No.

And because I know the majority of my Jewish friends don't think like that So that's why I I clown on him even harder because it's like you do you are actually not representative of the Jewish community You're kind of lost the plot no more than rabbi Shmuley is representative of the Jewish community I went after these people not because they were Representing the Jewish community because they were attacking me they were time opposite That was the only reason and which is why I I want to I

Yeah, on the, sorry to cut you off, on the Barclay conversation, there was one moment that came up that I think really needs clarification. And it was your discussion on the definition of anti-Semitism. And I know you objected to this idea that, oh, I guess it could just be anything, anything I say. And you see a lot of bad actors on Twitter and online talking about how, I guess, just speaking truth is anti-Semitic, which is such a, like, there is a catch-22, as I mentioned earlier, about when somebody says something in Sindir and you call it out as anti-Semitic, all of a sudden that feeds into the notion that Jews are

are somehow controlling speech. But the point is, the definition of anti-Semitism doesn't change. It is always fixed as the...

Call it what you want. Jew hatred, hating Jews and being hostile to Jews, wishing them harm. We understand each other. Anti-Semitism means that. Well, no, it doesn't mean that. Racial bias. Semitism does not just imply Jews, right? It's anti-Semitic to say things against Palestinians as well. Anti-Semitic to say things against Arabs. Well, this is semantics. That's not semantics. They are Semites. In the current vernacular, when we say anti-Semitism, we're talking about Jews. But for the sake of argument, Jew hatred. Let's call it Jew hatred.

Because yes, there are Semitic peoples and academically it's understood that there are different Semitic peoples. In today's current language, in the vernacular, when we talk about antisemitism, we're talking about Jews. But let's just say Jew hatred for the sake of argument and for the conversation.

It's not that the definition of Jew hatred changes and evolves and is a shape-shifting definition. It's the reasons and causes of anti-Semitism change throughout time. There are so many different sources of it throughout history of hatred towards Jews, whether it's theological, religious,

in the early days of Crusades or Islamic, having to do with hostility towards Jews. There's a theological component to it. Economic and social and racial, as we see from Nazi Germany, deeming Jews as this other race, this dirty race polluting our people, and we need to cleanse our society of these dirty Jews.

and this notion that some of the narratives you hear on the far right, that Jews are somehow co-opting, this sort of they're controlling our government, they're cabals, they're behind the scenes, the left-wing anti-Semitism, which is that the Jews are the capitalists and the exploiters. And whenever we see wealth and power, we presume it must be exploitative. And who's at the top of the wealth and power and who has all that? It's the Jews or in the form of anti-Zionism against Israel.

- So it just comes from different places, but we end at the same place. - There are definitely people that hate Jews. There's no question about that. There's obviously people-- - I just wanted to clarify what that means. - And the problem I think is that too many people are being thrown into this camp of people who hate Jews. And it's just not real. I'm not afraid to offend a Jew. Whatever that is, whatever words you gotta give that, I'm not afraid to call out Jewish people when they're behaving badly, okay?

And that is offensive to some people who think that there's some special category doesn't exist in my head or anywhere else. So they just get offended when I say this was a bad person who was Jewish. So let me ask you a question. What have Jewish people done bad in human history?

What have Jewish people done bad as a whole? And don't say like you can't say as a whole because you just we just had a whole conversation about like, you know, Palestinians, we can say blah, blah, blah. So I'm not saying this in a way as like we need to assign collective guilt. I'm just saying, have Jewish people ever done anything bad throughout human history?

Jewish individuals certainly have done bad things. You cannot ascribe malice to entire groups of people. That's racist. So you would agree then that saying like the Germans is not the right thing to do, the Palestinians, this would equally be as wrong.

to say the Germans, the Palestinians, any sort of that rhetoric would be completely wrong based on your- - Yeah, and it's low resolution. It's low resolution. If we're being specific and precise in our speech, you know how I feel about Jordan Peterson, precise, you know? Being precise in our speech,

We are talking about the Nazi regime of Germany. We're not talking about the Germans that brought pianos over to the United States. Not the same people. Yeah, okay. Because a lot of times you will see that they're very comfortable kind of assigning collective guilt when you go backwards. You know, like, this was done to the Jews by these people and these people and these people. And I'm like, okay, but

then suddenly like you'll get real specific if you're talking about a bad Jewish individual. Yes, of course. And so it doesn't- But you can historically trace anti-Semitism towards regimes. It would go a very long way if Jewish people would stop defending bad Jewish individuals.

It would go a very long way. That's why I say it's like beyond bonkers to me that someone would defend Magnus Hirschfeld. Like, what is the purpose of that? Like, literally, why do you feel like you have to defend this weird pervert? We're some of the most self-critical, self-reflective people. We argue all the time. We call out people amongst ourselves. I agree with you about not having tribal allegiances and looking past morality and decency because of any sort of blind tribal allegiance. We have to avoid that. Just like I wouldn't ascribe collective guilt

and group identity as paramount above all things. If someone says, like, oh, there could be a Jewish gang, you're not in it, so who cares? There could be a black gang on the south side of Chicago. I'm not going to be like, well, don't, be careful. Be careful when you're talking about Shud Night and the things that he did in the past. Be careful.

I'm just like, yeah, there's definitely Jewish gangs. There's definitely black gangs. There's Hispanic gangs. And I don't need to be all sensitive about it because I'm not in them. That's it. And I think if you guys employed that perspective of not having to defend the plausibility of a bad person who it would go a very long way. Just don't defend bad Jewish people because you're not them. It's not collective. But the context of what we're saying matters, too. So I would say that obviously any Jewish individual who does a bad thing should be condemned. But

If you were in a context of, if you were in the South, in KKK South at one point and started profiling black individuals who were bad, but you continued to do it, and it's not like you're excusing their individual behavior, but you were surrounded in a way by a culture or something that used it as red meat, who do have nefarious intentions towards innocent African-Americans.

To simply be mindful of that, that that is out there and be sensitive to that, that your words could inadvertently be used to provide. And I'm not saying that you're doing that intentionally and that's not what's in your heart and that's not what your intentions are. But for us as a community that's experiencing it and seeing it, to be mindful of that is okay. I mean, not everything that can be said is necessarily relevant and appropriate.

should be said just because it could be something true. Just it's okay to be mindful of the communities around that are going through certain things. And I don't think it compromises your ability to freely express yourself or, uh, or, or, or speak the truth as you see it. Us to engage with you and let you know that this stuff is out there and brewing. And there is a deep rooted cyclical history of this, even though in a snapshot in this moment, there's,

certainly a lot of comfortable Jews doing okay. In the last episode, I was moved by the fact that you told me about, and you've spoken about your grandfather who was an extremely influential figure in your life, right?

My parents grew up on both sides and they didn't have grandparents. And none of their friends in their community had grandparents. They were all dead. They were all gone. They were all wiped out. And one of the ways that that happened, if you look at it, historically in Germany leading up to the Holocaust and trying to figure out what exactly happened was a lot of propaganda and rhetoric over time. As Jordan Peterson has said, things get bad one small step at a time. And it's true that incrementally with time, building suspicion, creating a sense that

Jews are above this and this and this. There's some special class. It can feed into something really, really dangerous, really nasty, really incendiary that I know you don't intend to do. And I know you care a lot about the Jewish people in your life. So making you aware of those things is all I'm trying to do here. I think that's totally fair. You know, I think if there's any chip on my shoulder, obviously it's because like you just...

watched me take on the entire black community over George Floyd and people were saying the same stuff, you know, don't talk about the fact that he was a drug dealer. Don't talk about the fact that he had all these arrests because there's all this history in black America and all of this stuff and police brutality. And I'm like, guys, the truth is the truth. So it is my personality. And I hope that people acknowledge that, that, okay, actually no, for seven years, she's been going at her own community over BLM. So this is like, not as, especially because it's Jewish people that she's doing this. I just don't like bad faith actors.

And sometimes those bad faith actors happen to be Jewish. And if you're reading a document, that person's Jewish. Or if you're reading into history or talking about psychology. And by the way, a lot of, you know, those early psychologists were perverts. That's just a fact, you know, and some of them were Jewish, you know, and maybe for people that makes them uncomfortable. But it's like, guys, just call it out, because actually that that dilutes the conspiracy. I think the conspiracy actually thrives when Jewish people defend a pervert.

I think that's not a good thing. I think that makes them go, whoa, my God, why are they defending this weird perv? Like, is there some conspiracy? Whereas there's no conspiracy when you're like, yeah, no, that guy's a perv. He has nothing to do with Jewish people. And we're not tribal with perverts and pedophiles. Like, that goes a very long way. Like, Sigmund Freud was defending pedophiles. Like, it's like, let's not defend Sigmund Freud's actions on that just because he's, you know—

racially a Galician Jew, you know? Subjects aside, I think trust from the vehicle that information is coming from is super important. And building that trust and establishing that trust matters. And that's why I think you're getting the backlash and you are connecting it to what was happening to you during the BLM Blexit campaign, that there's someone that's trying to strip you of your blackness and your legitimacy as a person to comment on these issues. And all you're doing is kind of speaking the truth. And I can see why you're connecting those dots. At the first...

The first thing I opened with in our last episode was that it's true that calling out racism or anti-Semitism where it doesn't exist is an unproductive thing to do. And then you don't see the real anti-Semitism where it does exist. And that's what I'm drawing here is highlighting the fact that I've seen as someone who pre-October 7th

I did agree that Charlottesville happened, but it's those guys and it's marginal and it's not something we have to be super concerned about. And there was a derangement there and a hysteria under Trump that I always downplayed as well, even as the grandchild of Holocaust survivors.

But when Israel, for example, the only Jewish state in the world, the only Jewish state, 50 plus Muslim states, there's Christian countries, other countries with ethnic characters to it, but the only Jewish state gets attacked in the way that it did. And to see mobs of people supporting it, cheering for it more and more and more, and to see criticism and not any sort of sympathy at first, in some sort of broad way, to not see that or to see the first reactions to not be sympathetic in some way,

was just so rattling. And it did change my perspective in that, okay, it's not the right-wing anti-Semites at first I'm really worried about. They're marginal. And the worst ideas of the right, I think you'd agree on this, are not ascendant in society. You don't see Nazi KKK shows on Disney+. We just don't see that. The worst ideas of the left, to me, have been on the ascent from the academy. They're everywhere. Corporate America, children's programming, it's everywhere, the worst ideas of that, and viewing people in groups and hierarchies and group identity, politics and all that stuff. But

After seeing that, the anti-Semitism of the left come out, and then I'm starting to see this new sort of really troubling thing happening on the far right. And I know Twitter's an ugly place, but I want to just...

Talk to you. And because you have such a huge platform and such impact, and I know you want to be consistent and I appreciate you always being open to the dialogue of it. That's my role here to try to convey that how that's being perceived. And I know that your intentions are good. By the way, because I've heard this as well. And I've tried to make people understand it, especially from the UK, because they're saying this, too, like the conservative right seems to be kind of changing on Jews. And I. Yeah.

had to clarify for them, no, actually, you are seeing a sentiment that's changing against Israel. And the reason for that has got absolutely nothing to do with Jews. Let me tell you, if October 7th happened in Boca Raton, there would not have been a question of—

unfettered allegiance to what was going on with Jews in America. Israel is a different equation. And that conversation is starting to shift because, A, we see that as a foreign country. B, people are starting to call into question a lot of things. Bibi Netanyahu has said that to me, to hear a foreign leader speak about America as if he controls it makes me uncomfortable.

And then the third thing is AIPAC, ADL shoving through laws through Congress, John Greenblatt getting caught. You know, if you want to talk about not giving into Jewish conspiracies, John Greenblatt getting caught on the ADL on the hot mic talking about how he's going to we got to get rid of TikTok and then tomorrow it gets passed through Congress isn't good. You know, we want separation. We don't want Israel in any capacity controlling our speech. The anti-Semitism bill was

absolutely horrific and it caused a reaction. That wasn't against Jewish people.

That was against a foreign country having influence on American politics. And I think because it's all happening at the same time, it can be hard to dilute that and go, OK, actually, this isn't about Jewish people. They really just don't like what Israel is doing and the impact that AIPAC and ADL is having for specific reasons. And we can disagree on that. But what we should agree on is that actually that's nothing like I'm free speech, more speech. You're going to make an enemy of me if you're...

caught on a hot mic like Bibi Netanyahu was, saying that if you criticize Israel, we're getting laws passed in America. If you criticize Israel, it's going to be a problem in your life. That's gangster talk. Don't care what his religion is. Don't care what he thinks his race is. You got to now get out of my, get out of American pockets. That's my view on Bibi Netanyahu, which I think a lot of conservative Americans feel as well.

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war or whatever, that it animates the world in no other way than Israel. It's like there's so many different things going on and suffering going on around the world and innocent people and Muslims being slaughtered in Syria by Assad and all these things. And people don't storm the streets. But for some reason, with Israel, people get crazy. Are you suspicious of that and what's going on there? Why people get so crazy? Because the media covers it.

Then this kind of gets to what I was speaking to with peers. If you go talk to the average person about what's happening to Christians in Armenia or Christians in Nigeria, nobody even knows. But when October 7th happened, it was wall-to-wall coverage.

coverage in America as if it happened on American soil. Right. So that then made people and it wasn't even that it was then they instantly condemned a lot of Americans. And I think that upset a lot of white Americans because they were like, well, wait a second. This has been happening to us. This rhetoric has been happening to us on college campuses for years and no one did anything. And then suddenly it

it became a mainstreamed issue. If it was relegated to the same coverage as Nigeria and Armenia, it wouldn't have been in the forefront of people's minds. So what we're talking about is the psychological impact of having day in and day out. I mean, literally, I used to be like an avid reader of the New York Post. I had to stop reading it after like two weeks. I was like, is this even an American publication anymore? Is this like full-time, we're covering Israel every minute of every day? So I think that the response

came from the fact that it was all the media would talk about. It was all the media would talk about. But it's the cart before the horse. Same with Ukraine. No one ever talks about Ukraine. And then suddenly, you know, Russia invades Ukraine and you couldn't go through it. Suddenly, I'm like, when have we ever spoken about Ukraine here? And now everyone's got an opinion about Ukraine. So that's just the power of the media to make something a bigger issue. But you could...

You could see why from the Jewish community's perspective and the pro-Israel Jewish community's perspective, why everyone gets so fixated and the media does decide to put a spotlight and scrutinize every military operation in Israel like they do with nothing else, is a call for suspicion as to this is more than just being critical of an ally of the United States that it supports. There's something else going on here. What's different about Israel than any of these other countries? What's different? Well, our relationship with Israel is different, I would say. And I think...

actually the coverage was... We fund lots of countries. I mean, we give a lot of aid to a lot of countries, but somehow when AIPAC is advocating for legislation... Yeah, well, AIPAC pays journalists. You know what I mean? This is part of the problem where they were covering this issue feverishly. And I mean, on the New York Post, there are literal journalists...

who are in the IDF. You can just see it right on their thing. So there is this sort of marriage between America and Israel. And so I think what you could be reading as, well, why is it Israel? Part of it has to do with the fact because the media is insisting on us covering Israeli issues as if it's American. And so then people started paying attention to what was happening. I actually think if they didn't cover it, you wouldn't have seen any of those protests.

But most of the Western media coverage of Israel is hostile. Oh, see, I don't... Maybe it's because of the publications I read, but I would disagree with that. I don't read leftist publications, so I'm biased. I'm reading the New York Post. I'm reading, like, the Daily Mail, the Wall Street Journal, and I would not say... I would say it's above and, like, very pro-Israel. That speaks to the algorithmic realities we live in and what you're seeing. And we get this risk and read, but I would tell you, internationally, the BBC, CNN, MSNBC, most of the...

Well, you would agree most of media is left-wing. Well, you better read different... What are you doing watching CNN? That's a bigger problem. What are you doing watching CNN and SNBC? But most of media... We talk about it all the time, right? You talk about it all the time. Most of mainstream media, it leans left. That is true. I just don't read it. There's only a few on the right that year. To be fair, I don't read it. I can tell you this. They're hostile towards Israel. It's all Israel's fault. It's all like that point. So...

That's the thing. This obsession with the Jewish state. I mean, that's what Douglas Murray astutely says all the time. There's tons of suffering all over the world, but nobody cares because they hate the Jews. It has nothing to do with the Jews. It's only when the Jews get attacked that they're attacked more. I think in that spirit. Why is that so good? I'm not public about it, but it's only when Israel gets attacked that it gets attacked more. Israel is the only country not allowed to win a war. Yeah.

He'd be good to talk to. I recommend it. You got to get him on and do that with him. But I personally don't like Bibi Netanyahu. Fine. He's foreign. I don't really care. I get that that upsets some people because they think it's like a lot of Israelis. Yeah, they're protesting in the streets against him. So I agree with them. I think they've been they've been up to no good. And I think, unfortunately, the Israeli population, as well as Jewish people in America, are really

bearing the brunt of bad decision making by his party. But I look at that as an abstract in the same way that I look at like what Joe Biden is doing. I think he's awful, too, you know, and I critique my own president. So, yeah, I'm going to critique Israel. I'm going to critique AIPAC. I'm going to critique the ADL in the same way that I critique big pharma, the same way that I critique the CDC, the FDA and my own politicians. It's just it's just

people should just stop taking it so personal. When I start advocating for like, Israel shouldn't be a state and that sort of a stuff, which I would never ever do, then we're in a whole different category. But I think people should just like, you know, give it some time. So that's a good distinction to make that you know that you can recognize that the people saying Israel should be abolished, dismantled. That's where the anti-Semitism comes in. We're not just talking about criticisms of particular politicians in Israel or Israeli policy, which Israel is known to do and has a whole culture of dissent

and criticism. They're a robust democracy, which they should be proud of. And we should recognize as a friend of the US in that sense, at least forget what the policy should be in terms of giving people money. I mean, there's a lot of friends you have that you don't just give them money in regular life as individuals. That's a separate conversation. But to recognize that I think is super important. And to recognize that those that hate Israel for nefarious reasons are there and are using this guise of

obsession with Israel and under the guise of anti-Semitism to say only the Jewish state can exist. I mean, Rabibi Netanyahu will be voted out at some point. That's not the same thing in much of the world that surrounds Israel. These people have indefinite, indefinite terms of leadership. So that's what Israel is up against. So I just think it's always looked at as the one that has the power. But Israel is the size of New Jersey, literally a little smaller than New Jersey. There's only 15 million Jews around the world.

you know, there's billions and billions of other populations. We're such a small percentage. And in terms of who's the underdog looking at that situation, I think if you just zoom out a little bit and see all this territory and all these regimes that want nothing more than to just

Knock Israel off the map. It gives a little bit of perspective to it. Yeah, I have no allegiance to Israel. I don't know. I'm just an American and I would like more divorce in terms of our politics from Israel. Don't wish them any harm. Hope that they solve all the issues that are in the region. But quite literally, I have no attachment to the place. And I think it's weird that people are kind of trying to...

You would, of course, because you've been there, you're Jewish, you've got heritage there. It's just weird when people are trying to make me feel that their ancestral or their heritage is mine. It's just not, you know? If you want to go down with me to St. Thomas, and then I'll be like, hey, listen, look at this great island, these Caribbean accents, there's great jerk chicken, like,

Come on. And it's doper. It's even, it's, it's better if we want to go tit for tat, food's better. But, but if St. Thomas got attacked and people were taken hostage and I, and I went time and time again, criticizing the response that St. Thomas made and saying, Hey, it's ridiculous. You know? And I said, we shouldn't support them. We shouldn't give them any money. They should just do their own thing. I mean, understanding because I would say, listen, and this is a,

if St. Thomas was its own country, I would be understanding because I would recognize that this is America and this is St. Thomas if it was its own country. Obviously, we're just a territory of the United States. It would be weird if you did it now because it is territory of the United States. So actually- - But it might bother you if I kept crapping on it. - Well, if you were talking about, because I'm so consistent on sending no money overseas, I just think that about every country, and by the way, that's even, and this would be the hardest for me, the UK,

My kids are half British. My husband is British. That's probably the best comparison. I would feel the most emotionally attached to a terrorist attack on UK soil. It would be very difficult for me to... But I would wear those biases. I would say to people, my husband is British. My kids are half British. Our family lives there. And that is the reason why you are correct. Like I started our conversation with Dave, I said...

Let me put my biases on the table, right? But I would totally understand if people said, I don't want to send a single dollar to the UK. I would just have to respect that. Right, but it's been more than about just foreign aid. It's not just foreign aid. If people started to say, like, criticizing the UK when it's the one that's been attacked or criticizing the UK's response to try to get UK citizens out of being in captivity and being kidnapped, it would make you a suspect of the people who continually only see it on that one side. Yeah, I guess if it was...

Like I said, the issue is very complicated. We just went over this for an hour and a half with Dave. It's a very complicated issue. Some people say historically it's wrong. People are like, let's just look at this as what happened on October 7th and response to it. I just say I'm American and I just am not that moved by what's happening in the Middle East. And I'd like to get people back to focus on American issues. And and I mean that of no offense to any person that feels offended by it.

But fair enough. Anyways, I think that we should we've kind of gone way over here. But I want to keep the conversation going with you. And I again want to just commend you because I just think you're a really sensible, perennial voice. I think there are people that are radical and they're so radical perennial that they might as well be pro-Palestine. They actually might as well be pro-Hamas. They're so crazy in terms of what they're saying. It's not helpful. And I think people like you and Dennis Prager are just always sensible, always sensible.

open to a conversation, always willing to say it. Like you're like, I don't like that you're saying this, Candice. And I'm like, well, here's why I'm saying it.

let's normalize this, guys. Let's just normalize having conversations, disagreeing, and moving on. That is really what I hope you get away from this, irrespective. I know in the comments some people are going to kill me. Some people are absolutely going to kill Ami. There are going to be all sorts of weird comments. It is what it is, but I hope you at least are listening to these conversations and growing from them and realizing speech is not that scary as long as we are not becoming hateful people who actually wish harm on other groups. And those people should be called out.

Amen. We agree on that. Ami, thanks so much for all of your time. We'll be in touch. Thank you.