TOTD EXTRA: United unveil plans for new 100k stadium
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It just started from the point that we needed a stadium which befitted the stature of Manchester United. I think it is the greatest football club in the world. It's certainly the most well-known football club in the world. And it needs a stadium of that stature, I think. It starts with the most famous football club in the world. A billion followers globally. So it starts with the fans.

And it starts with the idea of making something which is so intense, it brings you close to the pitch. Acoustically, it cultivates the roar.

As you move away from the stadium, it's not a fortress surrounded by a sea of cars. It's open and it's contained by an umbrella that harvests solar energy, harvests rainwater, but it's protective and it encloses arguably the largest public space in the world.

If we get this right, the regeneration impact could be bigger and better than London 2012. It's part of the city of Manchester, the fastest growing city in the United Kingdom. A city, again, like no other. It's a powerhouse.

Steeped in history Trafford Park was the industrial heartland of the nation A heritage which I have a personal connection to Past governments have sponsored a number of these regeneration schemes But they've all predominantly been in and around London They've been wanting to explore it Nothing of the scale of what we've seen in London But this will be So this becomes a global destination Normally a stadium would take 10 years to build

We halve that time, five years. How do we do that? By prefabrication. By using the network of Manchester Ship Canal.

bringing it back to a new life, shipping in components... I just think it will become recognised throughout the world and at the end of the day that will also help Manchester United. ...rebuild the Old Trafford station and that becomes the pivot, the processional way to the stadium, welcoming and at the heart of a new sports-led neighbourhood

So what makes a global destination? What makes something so special? Our ambition, as you heard, is to have the best football teams, men and women, playing in the best stadium, the most iconic football stadium. A new stadium as part of the wider regeneration project for us would be a game changer. That is at heart of the success of this project.

Hello and welcome to Talk of the Devils Extra, the bonus podcast taking you deeper on the biggest Manchester United stories from the Athletic.

It's never quiet being a Manchester United fan or a journalist covering the club, to be fair, but what a few days we have had with Manchester United. We weren't planning to do a Talk of the Devils Extra this week, but after the announcement that the club now do intend to build a new 100,000-seater capacity stadium, rather than redevelop Old Trafford, we thought we'd better get the band together. And of course, Sir Jim Radcliffe has also been speaking this week and causing quite a stir with what he's had to say, not least about...

about Manchester United running out of money. We'll certainly get into that. Laurie's with us. He's been down in London, minding his P's and Q's with Lords and Knights of the Realm and whatever else at a briefing. And Andy and Carl are also on the podcast as well. Manchester United then announced the ambitious plans on Tuesday about this new stadium at an architectural firm in London. We'll hear on the podcast from some of the key people behind the project. But Laurie, clearly a new stadium is big news. What are the key details then?

I think key detail is the look of it, to be honest, because this is the first time we're seeing sort of artist impressions and renders and videos to try and capture the mood. And obviously that has caused a division, I suppose. It's going to with any new stadium. I certainly have my own view of it. I think it's...

It's sad that it doesn't look more like Old Trafford as it is. Maybe it's me just reflecting on the memories that I've got there and maybe a new stadium was never going to look like that. But I don't know, it doesn't quite do it for me in terms of the design. But I thought that was quite a big new...

and then also sort of the idea around it and how it was conceived. And I mean, the big question is how it's going to be funded and that wasn't answered today. So, you know, that's something we can maybe debate a little bit. But I kind of think that the, I think we sensed it was going to be 100,000 capacity new stadium. We had the talk for senior figures back in Los Angeles last summer that were pointing that direction. So this is what Sir Jim Ratcliffe wants. The task force have suggested that that's the best use of the money. And so let's see if they can get things going.

Andy, I can't believe that you've not spent the entire day analysing every last detail of a potential new stadium. This is your forte. I mean, you should have been on the task force. We've said that before. I wish I could, mate, but someone booked me out for the day in Rotterdam, so I put my phone on at five o'clock. You've been sat in the toilet at key moments, just having a quick flick through. Yeah, I was following it and I was with people who had a vested interest as well. And then I put my phone on properly at five o'clock and just had like 60 different people

message is because it's something that I feel strongly about. It's something that I've written strongly about for years and obviously the wife is the most important person in my life. She's an architect and I said, what do you think of this? And she said, it's absolutely beautiful but when are they going to buy some decent players to play in it? Now given that she knows nothing about football, I thought that was quite an interesting take on stuff. I feel really conflicted. I feel

Sad that Old Trafford may no longer exist, somewhere where I've been hundreds, thousands of times, somewhere I just walked around last week and on Sunday speaking to people, the shopkeepers and the swag sellers and the fans and where we've got all these memories. But something had to change. It has gone stale. Everything about it has gone stale, even the fonts that they use.

It just looks very 2008. I was just thinking that to myself last week. I've always advocated redeveloping, expanding Old Trafford, but I think I said 14 months ago I'd be okay with a new stadium, and I am on a similar footprint to Old Trafford. I love the idea of 100,000 capacity going head-to-head with Barcelona. I don't think that's overly ambitious. I think United can fill 100,000 seats, but

The cost of those seats or standing areas is what would concern me. The atmosphere is really, really important. Fans should be consulted. I get that people have very different opinions on whether they like it or not. It's a very emotive issue. People come to me and say the ashes of a loved one are scattered above Old Trafford and I've got great respect for them.

As Laurie says, we don't know how it's going to be funded. It could be great for Manchester. Manchester needs housing. It needs affordable housing. It's a real privileged position. This isn't Chelsea where they can't build anywhere. There's a lot of space there with an already existing transport infrastructure. The optimist in me likes the idea of a brighter future in this amazing stadium. And I look inside and it looks really smart and beautiful.

I feel conflicted. I love the idea, but I've got so many reservations that it's just erasing a big part of my life if we're not going to have the current Old Trafford. A lot of pretty images, a lot of ambitious conversation, but not too much protein.

from that conversation. I know there's been, I've been getting a lot of messages from the people at Play 5 Aside with going, oh, it looks like a circus tent. Oh, it looks like the Butlins thing. Oh, we've had a lot of that. Oh, yeah, sure. Butlins minehead. Butlins minehead. I went there. And straight away, I've been there. Circus, therefore, being apt for some of the actions on the pitch. Look, it's one of a kind. It's a really bold design. I don't think the finished product will look

exactly like what's being pitched because all stadiums go over budget and all stadiums end up being late so that mass will not be that tall in real life this is your prediction right as opposed to actual like solid info this is just how you feel that the project will go yes given what's been said today i heard a lot of hopeful things said by some very important people in suits and going well okay if you can say that but i don't think that's going to happen in your timeline

But also, you know, they're saying it's going to be happening. This stadium is going to be here in five years. Five years ago, I was a Southampton reporter and we were days before UK lockdown. A lot can happen in five years. So I'm not getting...

too high or too low one way or another. Like Andy said, there was definitely a point where I thought renovating Old Trafford was for the best. However, when Andy Burnham was first announced as part of this Old Trafford task force, I got the sense that the direction of travel was going to be building a new stadium in that the cost it would have taken to renovate Old Trafford would have been close to a billion.

And if it's that much already, you may as well just build a brand new stadium and be best in class. And we know for everything we hear from Sir Jim Radcliffe, he's obsessed with best in class. He's obsessed with British excellence. He's obsessed with seeing himself as some sort of great disruptor. So yeah, a big umbrella over a football ground. Yeah, I can see why that would appeal to him.

Yeah, it's definitely caused a stir. I don't think there's any question about that. I mean, I'm probably one of those people that Sir Jim Radcliffe referred to in his interviews that were reticent to change. I love Old Trafford. Of course. Even with its flaws. All right, maybe a new stadium looks how it looks. But I really wanted the new stadium.

the new design to incorporate more of the old Old Trafford, to be honest. I want it to feel a bit more like Old Trafford when we walk in and there's a long way to go until we get to that point, obviously, but I think they need to really carefully consider how they incorporate some of the bits and bobs from Old Trafford into the new ground.

Ben's been in touch. He said, I agree with that. I feel like I should offer some balance, though. The inside does look spectacular, and I love the references to the old ground that have made it through there, all the things I wanted to see in the new design. I mean, Andy, I've done a bit of work around...

Bramley Moor and the new stadium for Everton and another consultation with the fans the first thing that came through from the very first conversation they had was about replicating the feel and atmosphere of Goodison Park and they have to think so carefully about how this feels like Old Trafford in the future. Yeah but what

which bits of Old Trafford would you like? I don't think that Old Trafford is a beautiful football stadium. I think the roof on it swoops in too low. It's got fault lines all over the place now. Everton's new stadium, in my opinion, I think it's a very good new stadium. I've heard people saying it looks like a Tesco Extra. I'm not sure.

I actually, I think it's a smart stadium. The location is wonderful. It's not identikit. You know, that sweep of stadiums where Derby's looks the same as Leicester, which looks the same as Southampton, which is not that different to Sunderland. You know, this is really individual. You can't say it's like anything else. You know, Arsenal's Emirates, it's the same as Benfica's stadium. I don't want Manchester United to have just another stadium.

But Old Trafford is our home. I love it. And reports of its demise are completely over-egged. And it frustrates me. People who've never been there singing songs about it leaking and it falling down. It's still a really, really good stadium. But it needs significant change. It needs to be bigger, for one. Because people who want to watch United can't get tickets to watch United. And it's lopsided because of the railway. So this new site...

It's a clean footprint. You can start again. I'm trying to get my head around the tent idea. But, you know, I'm a stadium nerd and I used to really like the Olympic Stadium in Munich, which has also got a tent. And the first time I went there when I was 20, it blew my mind. But then I'm thinking, well, half the stadium is uncovered. This doesn't really work. And I prefer Bayern Munich's new stadium to the Olympic Stadium.

So people change their minds and I'm trying to counterbalance how I feel against like that northerness moan about everything. We don't like change. Change is not good. And embracing something which could be brilliant

And yet I get the idea that it doesn't look like Manchester United. But what does? I need to see some renders of it when the weather was raining. Because I'm seeing all these renders of this great new stadium, all in the sunlight and all this. No, that's not what Old Trafford is like. I want to see some... That's what they've designed it.

with the idea in mind, you know, 65% rain, I think they were saying, you know, in terms of days of the year and the idea is that you could collect the rainwater and then, you know, use it in a certain way. So that's what they're thinking about with this kind of design. I just don't think that three spikes up in the air particularly conveys Manchester United. I spoke to the architects, they are going to use, you know, bits of the stadium, the red brick. For me, that's what signifies Old Trafford, the red brick.

and the organic nature that it was built, but also it does fit together. I know that maybe it's not quite perfect, but I do think it's an iconic stadium as it is. People recognise it. But also, Laurie, iconic stadiums, you know, it's not about how they're designed. It's about what's happened there and the teams that play there and the success and the moments that you've had there. Isn't that what makes an iconic stadium? I mean, some of the...

World Cup stadiums in Qatar looked incredible architecturally. They're not iconic stadiums, are they? Well, they didn't look dissimilar to this. And obviously, Foster and Partners built some of those. So you can see the similarities there.

I agree with Andy in terms of the overall renovation of that area looks incredible, but that obviously depends on government funding, which Rachel Reeves, the Chancellor, was backing it. But equally, they aren't saying how that's going to work in practicality. They want to start work this year, they're saying, the architects. So the government will have to get a move on for that to happen. Ratcliffe was absolutely saying that

that kind of, you know, it all depends on it. So you're sort of thinking, okay, are you manifesting it here? Are you kind of putting this out there into the public domain to force the issue? Yeah, okay. Before we move on to about the, you know, the aspects of funding and so on, we'll just focus in a little bit more on the...

The towers, I mean, they're said to represent the three spikes of a devil's trident. Let's hear from the architects then who've worked on this design. When you look at stadiums, they are pretty much always fortresses. And I think our idea, particularly as we're looking at it within the context of Masterband, was to really open it up and to do that with the roof and have these covered spaces. And I think as it kind of grew, the idea of a covered space, well, how do you do a structure for that?

the verticality of the mast kind of helps. To be fair, the Trident kind of came later. We'd already designed the stadium and then somebody went, hey, you know what that looks a bit like. Okay, that's interesting. But the idea of the, and then the kind of triumphal kind of procession here and then arriving in that key space, we felt that was,

completely different and new and the 136 days of rain to kind of get you into a cover space. We thought that was really interesting. And I think that to try and encourage the dwell time for fans around the football, we thought that was interesting too. So that's really how it developed. It was a combination of things to do with structural engineering, to do with making it, having it be iconic. And we had a meeting in this room back in the day,

back on the 17th of December with lots of ideas, lots of options. And we had a great session with Norman Foster and also with Jim. And I think there was a feeling that this really was the most iconic and the most different stadium we could do. And we'd set ourselves apart and offer something for Manchester which was appropriate for the climate, but also to have a place where you can go

I want to go in that place. The idea of the masks, the idea of it being open was something we looked at. The Trinity sculpture, it repeats itself. We think it's really important that the Trinity sculpture addresses the stadium as it does today. Those sorts of conversations we need to have with the fans. OK, well, that maybe gives you a bit more of an idea of where the idea has come from for this design or some of the aspects of the design, certainly. But, Laurie, unquestionably, the biggest question is,

first questions that were put to Omar Barada when he did his briefing with the media today as well. How is this going to be paid for? Yeah, well, there wasn't an answer to that. So we have to wait and see. No ideas, hints, suggestions? All options on the table. Right. And I said to him, you know, it

could you know Sir Jim Ratcliffe put his hand in his pocket and pay for it out of his own money could INEOS do that as a company you know would you have sponsors would there be naming rights would there be more debt accrued and you know they didn't say how it would be named but you know they didn't certainly shoot down the idea of a company being attached to a new stadium I don't know how that would look exactly but and then also the option of

of debt. We know that the club has enormous debt as it is. I think a large chunk of it is up for payment in 2027 so they'll refinance that. They won't pay it off obviously but that's going to cause a knock-on effect for then any new debt that you accrue. These banks aren't just going to let a club take on more borrowing and

they're going to have discussions around that. So yeah, it's a real complex one, but they were absolutely confident in their minds that they would get financing for this. Omar Barada said that they've got a lot of interest from brands already that want to be associated with the stadium and it wouldn't necessarily be perhaps an overall sort of partner. There could be

aspects of it that would get sponsored so like the fan zone or yeah i don't know what other aspects that you'd have there in a megastore maybe but you know so you could break it down into individual parts yeah it still needs to have a megastore if it was to be old trafford given the history of that institution

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You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Epglys. Before starting Epglys, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Searching for real relief? Ask your doctor about Epglys and visit epglys.lily.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. It is the big question, Andy, isn't it, about how this is funded? Because obviously this announcement comes in a week where Sir Jim Radcliffe has done other interviews. Pretty eye-catching statement that Manchester United could have been bust by Christmas, which Laurie's addressed earlier.

in an article on The Athletic. We'll talk more about some of the details in that shortly. But, you know, there's a bit of a contradiction between funding a new £2 billion stadium and also not being able to pay current employees' lunches. Yeah, it is. But they are two separate issues. It's a plan for the future and it's a plan for now. And whether you agree with it or not, they are two separate issues. With the stadium...

It's probably what Jim Radcliffe wants as his legacy. I am the man who delivered a new stadium. It'd been much, much talked about. They've done the training ground that is about to open.

It looks Disney-fied. I'm wary of anything that looks too sort of Disney-fied. I've been to all them big stadiums in America and I like some of them and I don't like some of the other ones. One of the best ones I've seen, I think it was in Indianapolis. It's indoor, but then I don't want Old Trafford to be indoor. I don't know what I want. And I love the SoFi in...

in Los Angeles. You can see the reflections of that in this car. Yeah, yeah. They obviously went there. But I didn't love the fact it was $100 to park your car in the lots closest to the stadium or it's $18 for a Budweiser plus the option to tip 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 or 60% just for someone handing you a drink. You're having a Budweiser. I just walked past that store because I am professional and my mates do not think that I'm doing work. You don't work. You have a few pints. You just open your computer and write a load of crap.

No, no, I'm going to be professional. Them big American stadiums, like the one in Vegas or the one in New Jersey, they've got that wow factor. And big football stadiums can do that. The Bernabeu in Madrid, it excites me when I go into it. The Camp Nou in Barcelona, what they're doing to it, it was needed and it excites me. And Old Trafford doesn't excite, but then it's home. You've got all these sort of conflicting emotions and...

The fact is 80% of Old Trafford now is post-1992. It's triggers brewing. What is it that you like about it? So when you're saying, Ian, incorporate bits, which bits? You know, the Munich Tunnel's really important to me. We were talking outside it the other day, weren't we? The three statues are important. We've complemented the Jimmy Murphy statue as well. They said the Trinity statue would be at the start of the walkway, you know, this big walkway that they're looking at. Well, that will be incorporated. I

I more mean some of the little architectural details that,

If you took a picture of Old Trafford and it could be the back end of the stadium, couldn't it? The ugliest bit. You'd still know it was Old Trafford because there'd be those little things in your eye, the bricks that Laurie referred to before, some of the steel supports, the white cylinders, even some of the geography inside the stadium, you know, the camber and the side of the pitch and things like that. I mean, modern terms, I'm sure they would not need those and I'm sure some of those details would be removed and I'm sure there'll be bright, shiny advertising boards right around that.

and that will be the priority. But I think they have to think very carefully about the colour palette of some of the materials and things like that to make it look and feel like Old Trafford. I don't want to walk into a stadium that could be anything and just change the badge and put something else on. I think that has to be really carefully considered. I don't think it's like pick up the North Stand and stick that in.

But, you know, I do think they need to sort of carefully consider how it feels and looks with those little details. I think that's really important to touch on that. And they were talking about the Arskeks, you know, including those kind of details, like I say, in the surrounding areas. So maybe not necessarily in the stadium. But I do think that to Jim Ratcliffe, the way he talked about it, you know, he referenced the Eiffel Tower being, you know, this iconic,

building that people flock to from all over the world. And I'm thinking, so you're thinking of this stadium really as a kind of maybe tourist attraction in a way, you know, as much as, you know, you want it to be a football home, that kind of broad idea that... That's the thing, it needs to be a football stadium first and foremost. Obviously, there has to be other revenue streams. That's what I mean, that kind of slightly, I don't know, concerned me, that was the way he was coming at it from. This is going to be Sir Jim Radcliffe's legacy.

First and foremost. Yeah. Just billionaires love building big bits of infrastructure and towers and whatnot. So you go, oh, what was their impact on the world? And you can go, that. They built that. And that's why this thing is looking the way it looks like right now. And I'm sure if there is enough conversation with fans and other groups, eventually they might be able to sway the opinion of architects and members of such a remarkable team to make it look a little bit more like Old Trafford. I think there's talk about...

Iconography is really interesting because you talk to West Ham fans, you talk to Tottenham Hotspur fans, you talk to any Premier League fan who's recently moved stadium and they often tell you that it takes five to ten years after you've moved into a new ground before it feels like home. And the rest. And the rest. West Ham will never feel at home in the London Stadium though. Well, now the interesting thing with West Ham is it began to when they reached that Europa League, deep in the Europa League before they won the Conference League. Winning helps you make your football... I hate the word iconic. It doesn't mean anything. Okay, you have a recognisable silhouette. That's character design. Blah.

But the best way for your football team or your football stadium to be recognisable is if you just start winning loads of football games in it. I think this is also the big nebulous thing we're talking about at Manchester United is, okay, you've just shown me a big space-aged umbrella, but who pays for it? And is this football team going to be any good when they move in? Because stadiums aren't cheap and you can either have a nice shiny new stadium or you can have a team that wins football games.

Spurs have tried to keep both and they went backwards. West Ham have tried to do both. They went backwards for a bit. West Ham was built for Olympics, so the sightlines are all over the place. And when you double the size of your fan base, that's going to bring growing pains with it as well. It doesn't seem like West Ham, but am I just an old man shouting at clouds here? I'm very conscious that...

that this isn't built for us, this is built for future generations. Sonoma Foster is one of the best architects in the world. He's a Mancunian. This is the opposite of being done on the cheap. I know he's Jim Ratcliffe's mate, but part of me wants to embrace that idea that these people are being brought in.

This is northernness of just changes, not good. This tower, well, you know, when the Eiffel Tower was built, that was only going to be temporary as well. That's ended up being one of the most...

iconic parts of Paris. I'm not saying that because the one at Old Trafford, because it looks more like that Spinnaker thing in Portsmouth and I've never had any real strong desire to go there. But people are different. If you make Manchester more of a destination, I don't have a problem with that. It brings money into the city, but this is going to cost an absolute fortune. And we say 2.5 billion now,

which stadium comes in on price? They actually only said two billion, so you've already factored in. Andy, you future-proofed it. Yeah, and what we don't want is a Valencia where they started building their new super-duper stadium in 2008 and then it just lay idle, half-built for 15 years. These things can go badly wrong. I think, and this is again, not me trying to read between the lines or whatnot, is if Manchester United try and do what Tottenham Hotspur do, they'll probably try and get some sort of

long-term bonds, secure it against the land, and they pay for that by the future income. The problem is when Spurs did it, interest rates were, they were 0%, whereas now they're a little bit higher, so it's a lot harder to borrow money. And also another problem is, I know Sujin and his architecture friends have been talking about this modular system

you need a lot of steel to build a football stadium and a lot of steel right now is going to Saudi Arabia I think it's 20% of all world steel is going to that neon project so maybe this sort of build it modular around the world and ship it in via the canal is one way so Jim's going to try and get it down in price and get it on time but even I'm hugely sceptical of

the majority of the things I have heard about this new stadium today. Yeah, interesting, Carl. And I don't think you'll feel alone in that. There has been lots of different responses to this. And the modular aspect is an interesting part of this project. It's what Omar Barada insists can make this a five-year project and not a 10-year project. So let's hear from Sir Jim Radcliffe on the mode of this build. There'll be an immense amount of work for the local people of Manchester. But

But the modules which you heard Norman Foster talk about means that we can build a stadium much more quickly. So there are yards in the world which specialise in building very large structures which then shift to locations around the world. And we have an example of that in Antwerp at the moment where we're building probably the largest petrochemical facility that's been built for

That's 50 years and it's been built in Abu Dhabi and Indonesia and Thailand and the components are being shipped in and they weigh five, six, seven thousand tons each. Coming by ship and then they're wheeled in on these extraordinary sort of vehicles with a lot of wheels. And we will do the same thing. The thing that allows us to do that of course is the Manchester Ship Canop. We didn't have the Manchester Ship Canop, we wouldn't be able to do that. So that halves the time. I think normally if you were building a stadium of a hundred thousand brand new from

ground up in an area that also needs to be regenerated into a 10-year project. But if we get going with the government, and I know they're enthusiastic to get going, then I think it's a five-year project, not a 10-year project. Before we take a break then, let's just read out some of your messages about this. Michael, I wondered if you knew what will happen to the current Old Trafford on the pictures. It looks like it's completely demolished.

wouldn't it be good to keep parts like the tunnels that survived the World War II bombing? And that feeds into what we were saying about retaining some of the aspects that make Old Trafford Old Trafford. Kerris says media outlets have been reporting that the idea of keeping Old Trafford or downsizing it to be a home for the women's and academy sides has gone quiet.

Is there any indication of plans to build a new ground for those teams or is it still unconfirmed? In a word, Laurie, was that mentioned today? Yeah, I don't think Old Trafford will still be there. Obviously, parts of it will survive and they'll use that. And in terms of the women in the academy, they're saying that basically the new stadium, you can...

reshape it so that the stadium becomes lower in capacity so to speak and it doesn't feel like it's empty the way they've done the atmospherics in it they think will make it feel complete when you've got matches in there that aren't actually at the full capacity Okay, that's an interesting development as well

While we're on it, they also announced that it's going to deliver an estimated £7.3 billion to the local economy as part of the wider regeneration project for Trafford Wharfside. 92,000 jobs, 17,000 new homes and an estimated 1.8 million extra visitors as well. So,

This is not just about building a brand new stadium. This is also about the wider regeneration of the area. That's where the government needs to be involved. That's where public money comes in. And in some ways, it's over to them now. Next move is the governments and the people and the politicians who are working on this project. But let's keep on Manchester United. After the break, we'll take a look at what Sir Jim Radcliffe has had to say about the current state on and off the field.

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Andy Mitten has been a busy boy today, there's no question about that and he's had to peel away from the podcast. It was good to get his thoughts because he is the stadium nerd amongst us to be fair isn't he? So it was brilliant to get his thoughts on all the plans that were announced today and of course he'll be back on the next episode of Talk of the Devils after the Real Sociedad game on Thursday night. That will be available for your ears of course on Friday morning, whatever happens at Old Trafford on Thursday.

So, of course, you will have seen, you've not been able to escape it, Sir Jim Radcliffe has spoken to several media outlets during the course of this week. Obviously, he spoke to Andy a few weeks ago for United We Stand. There's a piece on The Athletic, like I mentioned before, from Laurie, Critch is on there, Adam Crafton as well, analysing exactly what the United co-owner has had to say. So we're going to have a look at that if you want the full picture on all the comments that have been given to the various publications, broadcasters,

and YouTube channels that he spoke to. But Laurie, there's two or three things that have really jumped out from what he said. Manchester United going bust by Christmas, potentially. Some of Manchester United's first team squad, and he'd only just spoken about a few of them, which made it a little bit of awkward timing in the conversation, are overpaid and not good enough to be at Old Trafford. Some very hard-hitting stuff.

Some honest stuff. I mean, refreshing from the outset that a Manchester United co-owner is speaking in this way. I think it's good to hear from him whether you agree or disagree with what he had to say. But,

It's made quite an impact for many different reasons. Yeah, I think that is the first thing to say. It's absolutely the case that we want people in charge of the football club to be speaking. So, Omar Barada, Colette Roach doing a talk today. Jim Ratcliffe obviously doing his media the day previous. Albeit not to us, you know, maybe next time we can get the invitation. But I thought the people that interviewed him did really good jobs and obviously he came out with some strong stuff. And yeah, I mean, the going bust by Christmas thing though,

it's just not true. They just wouldn't have gone bust by Christmas because he's talking about cash levels and yeah, cash levels have dipped a lot and without his investment as part of the deal to take the control of the club, they would have suffered more

cash deficit from last year. Could they have run out of cash? Is that what he means? They could have run out of cash by Christmas as opposed to going bust. So don't say going bust. Two different things. Yeah, going bust is like the club folding, right? And like, you know, it just wouldn't have happened. So he starts by saying run out of cash and then the second time he brings it up he does say go and bust which is a real man in a pub

style exaggeration when you're telling a story. Yeah, I mean, cash levels naturally dip around Christmas time, but then they get the funding from season ticket holders and broadcast revenues and things like that. So it's a cycle. And I think my issue with it, it wasn't just could have gone bust, it was

would have gone bust without the changes that I'm making in terms of the job cuts. And that's fact. He can make the job cuts. That's up to him. Absolutely. You know, if he wants to streamline the club, you know, I think a lot of people thought there was too much fat on the bone and, you know, it's a very sad thing to happen to a lot of people. But,

equally I think people can understand what he was trying to do. But the staff levels wasn't the reason why they were losing money. The reason why they were losing money was because they were spending too much on transfers and they had to service the debt. They're actually the club with the highest operating profit in Europe. UEFA did a report recently that said that. So,

That's about how much you get in terms of commercial, marketing, matchday revenue and broadcasting and the like, and then how much is going out in terms of wages and stuff like that. So I just think it's a bit disingenuous to say that without these job cuts, the club would have gone bust. It's an ideological thing, which is absolutely his prerogative as co-owner of the club. And then, yeah, in terms of the player thing, clearly that will cause players to kind of

sit back and stand back and take notice of it. I mean, you might say, well, good, that's what some of them might need, a bit of a sharp, sharp shock. But I think, you know, generally, you know, the fact that he obviously is irritated by having to pay instalments for players, you know, that clearly aren't going to be featuring...

in the first team although some did catch a bit of collateral you know in Andre Onana and Rasmus Hoyland that you'd hope would you know feature in the first team that being said we actually heralded you know Jadon Sancho's transfer from British Dortmund being paid in installments at the time we knew it was going to be you know several years that they were going to be spreading these costs out that's kind of

you know, business really than the Harry Maguire transfer that they had to pay in full for, which effectively I think probably gave less to their training ground. And then also obviously they did pay 50 million pounds for the training ground that they're putting money towards. So if he was really that concerned about cash levels,

Do you go and use £50 million to improve the training ground? It's great that he is, and obviously Foster and Partners were involved in that. There was a line from that actually today that's going to be open July 31st. So I thought that was interesting that it's definitely going to be ready for the new season. That'll be important, yeah. We've not really talked about it much on the podcast, but I know people working at Carrington have found that as a major upheaval for them throughout this season. And I'm sure getting to a new base and everything being open and the freshness and everything else

will definitely help ahead of the new campaign. It's so important that some of this stuff is finished this season. This season has been badly affected for so many different reasons. You just want there to be a full stop, don't you? In May, start of June, whatever it ends up being. And they can move forward with things like the training groundwork being done. Carlos, on the player comments, even if you think they're not good enough and you think they're overpaid, you're going to have to then sell them. So it's not exactly a brilliant negotiating position for...

for the leadership group to work with moving forward in the recruitment team when you're trying to get rid of some of these players potentially in the summer or beyond. I know. I came away from that one going, ah...

Rakov's got the same thing Aaron's got. They're truthful to a fault. Well, he says he's a Manchester United fan. He talks like a Manchester United fan on topics like that, I suppose. A lot of people feel it endearing, right? Yeah. There's many United fans who think a number of these players are overpaid and not good enough. We've seen the emails that come in.

Those series of interviews were quite enlightening. One, Radcliffe's not one for facts and figures and detail, which he warned us originally when he first did a set of interviews with the BBC and Dan Rooney said, I'm not a stato when they asked him about his Manchester United fandom. The conversation about the retired players fund and the 40,000,

And Gary Neville suggested, why don't you just get Bruno Fernandes and Aaron Maguire to do a dinner and then you can auction off and then raise 40,000. To which Radcliffe went, oh, no one had brought that up to me. Set off alarm bells in my head going, who's in your inner circle if no one brought that up to you? I would say, I reckon he was told that maybe that was a bad idea. I think there might have been people that told him. I don't know if they would have put

proposed that specific thing that Gary Neville suggested, but there was probably people suggesting that it was about that. I'm sure there's someone in his inner circle that Gary Neville referring to it as this one comes with a health warning, I quite enjoyed. I think Radcliffe's comments on the women's team again showed his...

they're nowhere near top five, top 20, maybe even top 50 of his considerations of the football team right now. And okay, that's your prerogative. I know there's some listeners that are going, there are much bigger things to deal with rather than women's team, but I think he's missing out on opportunity to get quite a bit of silverware if he just puts a little, a little bit of,

not even a large amount compared to the men's team, instead of the women's team. And one thing I found really interesting was he kept mentioning Manchester United are going to be the most profitable football club in the next three years, which is something that Omar Barada brought up two or three times today when talking about the stadium. So this...

This is a football club that seems to be working on multiple timelines. So one, they want to win a Premier League by 2028. They've also done a bunch of calculations because they're going to spend the next four years in the Europa League. They want to be the world's most profitable football club in the next three years. And they also want to get this football stadium done in the next five years. All of these cannot happen at the same time.

Come on, be serious. Omar Barada did talk a little bit about that in the briefing. So let's hear from him now. This is the paradox, really. And a lot of people have been in touch about this, Matty included. Can you help clarify some of the confusion around how we can afford to build a stadium but need to make some much lower scale cuts to staff and staff lunches? Well, here is Omar Barada explaining exactly why they feel that the cuts they've made are necessary in order to get to the point where they can afford this new stadium.

What you heard yesterday was about the need to do a course adjustment. So the way the club was tracking with all the losses that have been accumulated over the last year is more than 300 million in the last five years was not sustainable. So all the plans that we've been putting in place over the last months really address the short term issue, which is that the club is losing money.

Once we stop losing money, we then put ourselves in the best financial position to continue investing in our team and also to allow us to be able to have the ambition to build a new stadium. The goal that we have is to become the most profitable club within the next three years. And we want to do that whilst we continue investing in our squads. So that's the goal for the next two, three years. Once you become profitable, then everything else becomes more manageable and also allows us to be able to invest into the future, which is what this stadium is about.

Well...

I think that ticket prices are going to be announced soon, right? Next two weeks, according to Jim Ratcliffe. I mean, I don't know if that was the ideal way to announce something like that. I think a lot of people are very invested in it and would like clarity rather than a bit of confusion. But yeah, I think maybe that's part of it where you sort of,

show this is the ultimate ambition to build this incredible stadium that people want to go to and this is the future let's look ahead to this and okay maybe you're going to have to pay a little bit more right now to afford it I mean Omar Barada did touch on ticket prices in the new stadium and said because I asked him about it

that would allow them to have more flexibility in terms of what they price things at. So, you know, bigger stadium, more people go in so you could maybe charge some people a lot more than you're charging them now, but equally keep some, you know, quite a lot, hopefully, tickets at a very reasonable rate for, you know, the younger people that can go. Core support. I feel like, you know, maybe that was

part of it maybe they just he just wants to apply a bit of pressure to the government you know it's now like i say on them so get this out there in the public domain um let's get people talking about it you know get a bit of momentum behind it um but yeah i mean it's i do like i said i do i

value the fact that you've got somebody that's talking to the media because you know for 20 odd years we've had silence from the glazers really you know aside from you know an open letter that obviously had been you know ghost written um and an mutv interview at the very start of things you know where you know communication was going to be at the heart of their their reign and

ultimately they never saw any value to it. They were encouraged at different moments to speak, even just to MUTV, but they always declined, Joel Glazer in particular, to do that. So at least you've got somebody who is able to take questions on all manner of subjects and no hold's

barred in a way so maybe just want to remind people of that you know the results haven't been bad you accepted mistakes that they've made you know in terms of the dan ashworth one that's a real bad you know error on their part he called it chemistry chemistry yeah i mean i don't know how much you can go into it really because i wonder about the terms of dan ashworth's exit but at the same time you feel like that needs to be addressed by the people that were involved in making that decision so yeah um

Hopefully that turbulence has happened, but I feel like doing it now was a culmination of things, partly because his career has been built on his personality, his force of nature, and showing that to the people again maybe is a part of bringing United to better times.

Sizmay from Uganda says, I have to say, it feels good to hear an owner of a club speak in depth to the media outlets about the protests or after the protests as well. Ineos isn't perfect, but they seem miles better in communication compared to the Glazers. I liked how he held himself accountable. That's Ratcliffe for the Ashworth and Ten Haag mistakes.

Phil, not in Uganda, impressed that in. So that shows you how diverse our listener base is. The glaring omission from all the comms that fills me with delight is the word glazer. Do you think this is an indication that they won't be involved by the projected 2030 build?

Laurie's nodding. It's a good point. Yeah, very good point. Yeah, their names were glaring by their omission. Sir Alex Ferguson was even quoted and he's been cut as an ambassador. Well, he was dragged in to help people like me accept the change, basically. If you've got the greatest manager of United's history sort of advocating for it, then that does have a certain persuasion. Yeah, I think that's really interesting. Obviously, the whole dynamic between the Glazers and Ratcliffe is fascinating in terms of

how it's been divvied up. They are the majority shareholders, but he is the one running the ship. So how is that going to solve itself as this progresses? They've obviously got those drag along rights that come into effect in about 18 months, I think. So how will this all map out? There's certain people that think they will ultimately sell the club. There's certain people that think Ratcliffe will ultimately buy the club or maybe something else happens. But I think that's a really astute point. What is their view on all this?

Carl, obviously this is a week where there's been thousands of people outside Old Trafford protesting against the Glazers, against the future direction of the club, according to the 1958 group. The communication, all the things that we talked about on the last podcast and hearing from Steve from the group as well.

It was interesting hearing Sir Jim Radcliffe not talk about them as well. Gary Neville, in particular, in his interview, really did try to press in on this topic. And it does speak to a sort of uncomfortable truce in a way, doesn't it? There's tension. Talking to Steve on Sunday, he said, Sir Jim needs to come out and talk about what the plan is and where the club goes forward. And I suppose, whether this was by accident or design...

We've got an answer Monday and Tuesday. So Jim Radcliffe's giving you lengthy interviews across multiple media spheres. And on Tuesday, the plan is big, big, big football stadium in 2030. Now you've got to figure out the other stuff, how it gets paid for, what sort of football team will be playing in there, and will Manchester United be able to challenge for the big trophies when that stadium is built? I mean, even this conversation about putting pressure on the government.

Lord Sebco was there. I remember when he was talking as part of London's bid for the 2012 Olympics. When it got announced, the mayor of London was from Labour.

and the government was New Labour. When it was unveiled, the Mayor of London was Boris Johnson, the government was a coalition government, and all of the plans for that sort of legacy and where all that housing was going to completely switched like that. And I still, when I walk around Stratford when I'm going to London Stadium, it looks nice, but I can't shake the feeling this wasn't what the plan was when this all got announced. A lot can change between now and these proposed things from Sir Jim Radcliffe, and he's doing better than the Glazers in terms of communication.

but I can't give anything more than a...

you know, the men's going, yeah, fair play, fair play. Give me more. Give me more. Come on. Okay. Well, we'll see how it develops. We'll see how the conversation goes on. See what future announcements are made and how the project progresses over the weeks and months to come. And of course, we'll cover it here on Talk The Devils. There might be a few more emergency extras between now and the stadium build completion. Needless to say, there is lots of brilliant coverage of this announcement, of the interviews done by Sir Jim Radcliffe this week as well on The Athletic. Go and have a look at that.

you can get in touch with us as well join the conversation on this let us know what you think about what we've had to say on the podcast devilspod at theathletic.com or use the hashtag TOTDX on social media you can also make suggestions about what you want future topics to be on these special edition podcasts but for the moment thank you Andy for being on the first bit Carl and Laurie thank you for lasting the distance

We will be back with a podcast released sometime on Friday morning, no matter what goes on, on Thursday night in the second leg of the last 16 Europa League tie against Real Sociedad. We'll all be on that again and we'll speak to you then. But yeah, let us know what you think. It's a moment, isn't it? Take care. Thanks for listening. Bye-bye.

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