How Senada Greca Built Her Fitness Empire | Ep 281
01:10:21 Share

And for me, I think the stress around worrying about eating a piece of chocolate or cupcake is actually worse for me than just eating the piece of chocolate or cupcake. Exactly. I always say like the stress of what you're stressing about is going to kill you before the thing that you're worried about kills you. Yeah.

So you're from a small city in Albania, and it was communist back then when you lived there. I know that your family endured a lot, food ration lines. There's a lot of hard times, but you labeled it as also being the happiest time of your life. Can you tell me why you called it the happiest time of your life? It was, and for a lot of people that would be seen as, you know, you were standing in food lines, you were struggling to get a loaf of bread.

But because your reality is confined to what you experience, you're not exposed to TV or social media. You don't know what exists outside of those borders of your reality. So I was happy within those confines. I looked forward to taking that one vacation that everybody took once a year. Yeah. So at the time, I was definitely happy as a child. When was the first time...

that you started using social media? Do you remember? That was, I mean, I started, I guess, maybe 2014, just to post, you know, flowers or a picture of me running, very rarely. It was until 2019, January of 2019, that I decided to post more strategically and for purpose.

That was, I would say, when I first started to really post on social media. And when you were growing up, there was, you know, you didn't have social media you were comparing and stuff to. No. Did you, what did you consume? Besides, like, playing outside, like, did you watch TV? Were there shows? Like, until you came...

to the US, like what did you do for fun? I think there was like one hour of TV a night on weekdays that everybody looks forward to. And maybe on the weekends, there was a couple of hours more in the morning with like cartoons and stuff. So that was another exciting part. I think it speaks to what

When you don't have so much like we have access to nowadays and dopamine hits from one thing or another, when you're limited to your resources, then I think that the importance and the significance of those little events like one hour of TV or two hours of TV in the weekend is so much more significant. And what I did for fun was just go outside and play with my friends, you know? I was out in the dirt just playing.

climbing trees to get, you know, ripe fruits. That was my childhood. How do you think that influenced you as an adult? I think it brought on an appreciation for things, for the little things. You know, I still go out in nature and I'm in awe, you know, I'll walk out and see an orange tree and I'll still try to pick oranges from even though, you know,

The partner is always kind of yelling, "Any of you like Sonata? Don't steal fruit." Yeah. "You're not going to miss an orange that's about to hit the ground." That's funny. But it's still that stuff that brings a lot of joy and appreciation. Do you remember the first time that you remember feeling depressed or anxious? Because I know that you've talked about that growing up, then there was a point where there was anxiety, there was depression, and possibly eating disorders. Do you remember the moment that started?

Yeah, that started when we transitioned to the United States. We came legally to the United States, and it was supposed to be temporary, even though we were legal immigrants. We had our green cards and whatnot, but it was supposed to be temporary just to escape a civil war in Albania.

There was a civil war and the time we left in '97, I still remember, you know, hearing all of the gunfights and gunshots outside and hiding underneath the bed and, yeah, that's what we needed to escape that. How old were you? I was 14.

So that was like a significant change. I mean, like I had something happen to me when I was 14. And like, I remember it was like it was yesterday. I can imagine that that... I can still remember that. I can still remember. But I don't know that it affected me as much as the transition to the United States, believe it or not. I mean, I can still...

remember that event very, very light. It was very lively in my head, but it is still very much alive in my head. But I think the transition to the United States was what was more shocking. It's a new culture with at a very formative point in my life. Teenager, you know, your body's changing. You're not dressing the same as your peers.

Because you came from a different country with different clothes, with very limited clothes, handmade down clothes. So, you know, bullied, made fun of my accent and whatnot. And I was the only one in the family that knew English. Wow. Some English, not perfect English yet. British English, which was another thing because the accent. British Albanian English, if you will. So I helped my family through a lot of...

them transitioning to the United States, or whether it was my dad getting a job or my mom getting a job or them filling out paperwork for like the doctors or legal documents. So a lot kind of fell on my shoulders at the time while I still managed to, you know, be an A student in school because that was highly promoted growing up. And you didn't even fully speak English at this point. I didn't. You're still getting A's. Yeah, yeah. So how did the...

anxiety and depression, like what do you think triggered that in you at that point in time? I think a lot of it is the overwhelm of having to assume so much responsibility at a young age. And I think part of it was also trying to fit in in a culture that was very different, which that

The eating disorder, I think, came with that and trying to really control an uncontrollable situation, a situation that was kind of out of my control. You know, you could perhaps speak to like a predisposition there of anxiety and depression. Like my mom has had her struggles with it. And I think she even speaks to like her dad having some struggles with that. So yeah.

It's a combination of being predisposed to that and also circumstances that I found myself in at a very formative young age. In terms of talking about the eating disorders, would you say that that was linked to feeling depressed, feeling anxious, and it kind of turned into this need to control things? And you did that through the eating disorder, or would this be unrelated? Yeah.

I think potentially it was, you know, they were maybe linked somewhat, but I think mostly came from trying to fit in, trying to fit in a new culture with just trying to fit in, basically. So I think...

But again, it probably has to do with the depression, anxiety, and trying to control that uncontrollable situation. I think a lot of eating disorders come from that, come from just trying to control something that is out of your control. And I think, yeah, part of it was that and part of it was so much that I was dealing with at that time. Yeah. And

And with the eating disorder, when did you realize that you had one? When they didn't let me play sports. Sports was, I've always loved sports. Even before I started developing an eating disorder, I've always been active, like whether it's like dance groups or then I came to the United States and started playing soccer. And I got so thin that they wouldn't let me play soccer. Like my teachers were like, you have to

See a therapist. You're not allowed to play sports. I became the manager of the team because I couldn't play. But I wanted to be close to that because for me, like playing sports was also a way of helping myself kind of put myself out there, even though I've always kind of been a little shy.

socially maybe, I don't want to say awkward, but shy, you know, but even then I kind of pushed myself. There was like this sense, this inner knowing that I needed to make myself do these things. I needed myself to play sports and socialize. That was one aspect of it, to make friends, but the other aspect was also to like be active so I could be thin and skinny and which fed into that eating disorder.

So that was it. When I was told not to play sports, I was set up with the therapist and, you know, it didn't get better overnight. It took some time to overcome that body dysmorphia, the eating disorder, depression and anxiety. What did you learn about yourself through that process? Like, they sit you down, right? I can imagine they're like, "We're not going to let you play sports because you're too thin." And it's like, "Wow, okay, like, people are saying this is a problem."

And then you have to go talk to a therapist. I'm curious, what did that process look like for you? And what did you learn about yourself throughout it? Honestly, at the time, I was just so against it. I did not want to do it. My parents would have to bring me and basically force me to go through those sessions just because I was so focused on...

I don't care. Like, this is how I want to look. This is what I want to do to myself. And almost in like a self-harming kind of way. Yeah. But I did realize, like speaking to the therapist, I did realize how much it was consuming my mind space. Thinking about food, thinking about working out, thinking about being thin. I would...

And honestly, anywhere we went, I would stand up. I would stand up. I would not sit down just to burn extra calories. I remember there was a point in time, I don't know for how long I did it, but it was months on end that I would go anywhere and just stand up.

So I just, yeah, realized that that was just so all-consuming that a shift needed to happen. And again, it took some time. It took, and I was still pretty, I was 15, 16 at that point. So, yeah.

And then going into college, you know, still controlling what I was eating, especially in front of people. Like eating more in front of people? Eating control less in front of people and binging less.

you know, when I wasn't being seen. And then I remember, like, one point of transition was a cousin of mine that saw, like, what I was doing to myself, like, limiting in front of her eyes what I was eating. And she's like, "Sanata, like, food is one of the joys of life, you know? Yes, it nurtures you, but it's also a joy. Like, what are you doing? You're limiting yourself to this joy."

So that kind of struck a chord, and it's when things started to slowly shift. I wasn't as restrictive with what I was eating. Wow. Yeah. And at the time, again, I saw another therapist in college who I spoke to about that restrictive and binging pattern who –

who gave me like this really good book, Overcoming Overeating, because I now had turned into, it had gone from like anorexia, like starving yourself to now binge eating. And because obviously those two almost come together sometimes, you can't spin this like really tight control, you know, have this spring be like controlled so tightly, it was just gonna pop, you know, the other way. I've read that book. Yeah, you've read that book. I did because when I was in high school,

I had been in a relationship for a couple years and then the it was my first relationship ever right first time in the love and That person then he found out he had to move across the country and I was so sad and then At the same time that he found out he had to move my mother she tried to kill herself and I just spiraled into this depression and my only

At the same time, I was so sick of feeling, people told me I was overweight, I'd been bullied for having a tummy and whatever. I just started running eight miles a day, just started. I remember I would eat a bowl of Cheerios and one chicken breast, and that was what I ate. Then after enough time had passed and people told me they were worried,

I was like, you know what, this is not, it's not healthy, it's not who I want to be. And so I started learning about food and everything, but then it went into the cycle of not like being very restrictive, maybe not starving myself, but restricting to such a degree that then I would binge. And it was like this uncontrollable couldn't stop. The moment that I remember it was completely out of control was I had a cake in my house.

And I remember this clear as day. There was a cake in my house for my friend's birthday, and I had thrown it into the trash can. I don't even know if I've told this story in like 10 years. And I threw it into the trash can, and then like an hour later, I went into that trash can, and I ate some of the cake. And then I was so disgusted with myself, I took Windex and I sprayed the cake in the trash can.

And then I literally thought to myself, I was like, I never want to feel this way about myself again. I felt so disgusted. And that's when I started, I found a therapist and then I actually read that book along with a couple others. And it really resonated with me because it felt like the cycle of complete control and then complete inability to control myself. Yeah.

And so, yeah, it robs you of a lot of self-esteem when you go through that cycle. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. I'm curious, like, how did you find your way from, you know, not eating to binge eating to being as healthy as you are today? Like, what did that, what did you have to learn about yourself to get to where you are? Like, how did you have to change?

It was a long process. Yeah. And I remember a similar story where, you know, my celebration when I graduated college with myself was I ate a whole Entenmann's cheesecake. And I felt so bad afterwards. It was just this pain of being in your body, just discomfort, dare I say, like disgust of, like, just being in your body. And...

So that was definitely one of the turning points for me too, that I'm like, I can't continue like this. Like, this is not my life. Sure, I did very well academically. Like, I graduated college in three years. I got my MBA in one year. But, like, I was not happy. I was just, I didn't feel good in this body. Yeah.

And I just did not want my mind to be consumed by thoughts of like not being thin enough or not, you know, eating too much or eating too little. So that's when I decided like things had to change. And I was lucky enough, I met with this one doctor, primary care physician, where she was like,

running a marathon every three months, like something crazy. She was like in her 50s and just crushing marathons after marathons and just doing it just so... That's what made her feel good. That's what made her feel proud and accomplished and...

And that's what she taught me. It's like start running from a place of like this is going to help me with how I feel about myself, my anxiety and my depression without necessarily going into trying that first. Wow. So that was a pivotal moment in my life. I started to run for the right reasons, started to kind of work out for the right reasons. Also, when it came to food, I tried to normalize things and not...

label things as good or bad. So if I wanted to have a piece of cheesecake, I would have a piece of cheesecake and not like eat healthy in front of somebody, but then thinking about the cheesecake the entire time and then cleaning up the cheesecake from the fridge. So it was like, okay, I'm just going to have this meal and I'm going to include, you know, a small slice of cheesecake. So again, normalizing things and

and not labeling them as good or bad. I don't have cheat days. Like, I don't think cheat days are a good idea because, again, you're kind of...

creating these two realities or creating again, like labeling the foods good and bad. I don't believe in cheat days. I don't know if you do. No. But I incorporate like all the things that I would cheat with. Yeah. No, no, no. I know your philosophies because I've researched enough. We share the same. So it's funny because people ask me quite often, like, what do you eat? And I don't even want to tell people what I eat because one, I don't know why they ask, but two,

I don't want to tell anybody because one, your body needs different calories and energy and all that than my body. Like it's completely different, right? The second is because I just know I'd be scrutinized for it because it doesn't look

healthy a lot of the time. I like candy. I eat candy quite a lot. Most days, I have at least one piece of chocolate. And a lot of it comes from, for me, this is actually my healthiest because I'm not afraid of eating a piece of chocolate. And I don't get mad at myself if I want to have a cupcake. And for me, I think the stress around worrying about eating a piece of chocolate or cupcake is actually worse for me than just eating the piece of chocolate or cupcake. Exactly. I always say like,

The stress of what you're stressing about is gonna kill you before the thing that you're worried about kills you. Yeah, well, you know, because you've lived it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've lived it. And nowadays, you know, the stressors are everywhere. You know, you can't eat this, can't do that, don't, you know, it's just too much. We just have to kind of bring you back to the basis, but then be okay with not being perfect at everything. It's funny because all the things that you're talking about, like,

Not labeling food as good or bad, not being perfect, like all of that, it translates into every area of life, which I think is the coolest part because you and I talk about, I learned there's no good or bad food, right? And I remember learning that and then thinking like, what if there's no good or bad anything, right? There's no good or bad decisions, yeah. Right, and then you don't need to be perfect in anything, right? You don't have to be perfect in anything. I'm curious because you also,

you obviously help a lot of people in terms of getting in shape, getting their mind right, all that. How often do you think it's stemming from their mindset around food versus a physical reason that they can't lose weight? I think a lot of it has to do with mindset. A lot of it has to do with how you're thinking of yourself, how you're

you feel about yourself and the words that you speak to yourself. And I think whenever we start, I say this, like whenever we start from that place of love, from the place of acceptance and not that I have to, I hate this 10 pounds that is on me. Like I want to lose this 10 pounds that's on me.

Maybe starting from a place of like, I just want to treat myself better. I just want to treat myself in a healthier manner. I mean, of course, there's different components that makes up what it takes to lose weight, whether that's working out or nutrition. But I think mindset is such a big component.

And a lot of the time we also rely on feelings, on how we feel a certain day, whether we want to work out, whether we want to make certain food decisions. Because I still believe that without labeling necessarily things bad or good, we still have to make certain food decisions that support our goals and our health. Instead of relying on feelings so much, rely on the habits that you create and think,

for me, like again, working out is a non-negotiable. Trying to eat a certain amount of protein is non-negotiable. And I think if a lot more people implemented kind of those non-negotiables, then they would see more results. But again, it starts from a mindset too. It's a mindset is crucial. What do you think...

like in the changes that you've had to make to get to where you are, when you wake up and you're exhausted or you're tired or you've been traveling and you haven't worked out and there's food everywhere that doesn't support your goals, like do you have a certain internal dialogue that goes through your mind or is it just habit? Like what do you think has contributed to your success and being able to

be successful in changing your mindset and changing your body? Well, if I was in that situation where like I am super tired, there's bad food. Again, I don't obsess over it. I try not to obsess over anything. Like if I did miss a workout, like it doesn't throw me off for the entire week. I missed a workout and that's okay.

as long as I don't make it into a habit, as long as it doesn't like spiral me into, again, starting to not work out and not take care of my body. So I try not to take such a strict approach

approach. I think not being so strict, all or nothing, you know, take an approach of all or something, I say. Oh, I love that. That's cute. Not all or nothing. So, but I do, I do even when I'm busy and I'm tired, I try to give myself some time to move my body. And if it's not a full workout, like I said, all or something. And if it's, you know, the

there's a pizza out and there's no healthy food, sure, I'm not going to devour the whole pizza, but maybe have a slice, you know? Because again, where's the fun in life if we're going to be so strict about it? Sure, some people, again, can be more strict than others, more regimented than others, but what works for you? And I love what one of these experts that we're bringing on to the WeRise app, she talks about

let's talk about any sort of diet or any sort of form of eating. I don't necessarily like even using the word diet, but any sort of like form of eating, like, are you able to do that for the rest of your life? Ask yourself that question. I love how she puts that because then we understand like what certain restrictive diets, they're going to fail because we're not necessarily able to sustain that for the long run. No, a hundred percent. I had a friend at one point who

was like for the rest of my life i'm literally only eating chicken and rice and like that's what i'm going to eat every meal every day forever and this is like what works for me and i've been doing it for two years and i was like

And then I said, I was like, you know, we go out to dinner, bring in chicken and rice. We go to the breakfast, chicken and rice. And I was just like, but like, you know, there's options here. We've got eggs and potatoes. Like, why not? And it took that person about three years. And then they were like, I didn't realize how I was still using this all or nothing, good or bad mentality with food. I just was controlling it in a way that was less obvious. It's funny when you say the like,

all or something because what I'm hearing is that you're very resilient. So how I define resiliency is resiliency is how quickly you can get back to baseline. So for example, you probably experienced this too. When I was really unhealthy, when I was like 18, 19, and I would binge eat,

It might be that I don't just binge eat in that moment, but then it might be a whole day. It might even turn to a whole weekend where I'm eating all this food that's unhealthy because I'm thinking, gosh, I feel bad about myself. I'm compounding on it. It just gets worse and it just digs a hole deeper.

Now, even if I am to ever overeat, maybe it happens twice a year, I overeat that meal and then I'm like, I can stop now. The rest of my day, I can eat healthy. I can eat what I normally eat. Maybe I'll eat a little less because I'm not as hungry. I go back to baseline.

And it sounds like you've just figured out a way to just go back to baseline really quickly. Yeah, I think resilience is right. And I think you had asked that question before, like what I learned dealing with depression, anxiety, and eating disorders. It's that resilience, which I think is what has brought me to where I am today and not just overcoming what I overcame with those aspects, with those diseases, if you will, but also to where...

what has brought me the success, if you will, of being where I am today. It's important to... And I think a lot of people think of it as like something that they're born with, but I think it is something that you can cultivate. It's when you do not overeat after just having, you know, overeaten one night and don't turn that into a week longer or a month longer. Now this is my life type of thing. It's just kind of bouncing back and...

Yeah. And I think the other thing that runs through for your story for me is discipline. Because I think discipline can work for and against you, which is it takes a lot of discipline to run eight miles a day when you don't eat much food.

It takes a lot of discipline to do a lot of sports. And so what I've seen is in a lot of people, it's like your discipline might work against you and then you get it to work for you in a way that makes your life better, not worse. You mentioned, you said it ever so quickly that you got your, you finished college in three years and then you got your master's in a year.

How did you do that amid all the other things and not having speaking like English was not your first language, like all these things? Was that instilled by your parents? Was that instilled by you? Like what motivated you to do that so quickly?

Yeah, you're right. You know, there's a discipline that you do play sports and run on nothing. And somehow you can do that when you're young and when you do have the discipline. But then if you're able to harness the power of discipline in other areas of life, then it's incredible. And I was very disciplined when it came to school. That was partially because, again, my parents were very, very...

I don't know if I want to use the word strict, but they thought highly of highly educated people that also not, again, not just passing, but also A-plus was like your standard. It was my standard. And how...

how would I even surpass that is by graduating college in three years and then getting a job. And then while I had the job, I got my master's in one year on nights and weekends. So it's always kind of like pushing that. It was instilled. That's why you don't know. Is it just an instilled characteristic from your parents? Is it genetic? I'm not sure what it is, but it did

That's what it translated to. You know, it's funny is that I spent so much of my life when I was in my early 20s trying to figure that out, that question, nature or nurture. Was I born with this? Was it something my parents taught me?

And I finally gave up. I was like, I don't know. Yeah. I go back and forth on like the percentage of each. Yeah. What creates, you know, who we are today. Yeah. And you said you had siblings, yes? I do have two younger sisters, yeah. Oh, really? Are they here as well? They are. They're in New York and they have kiddos and they work and they're amazing. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah.

And you were the oldest. I was the oldest. It was the oldest. And, you know, part, well, I think the oldest kind of perhaps might get a little bit more of the brunt of the... Yeah, the expectation. The expectations are a little bit higher and your parents are still learning how to parent. And perhaps you're like the first go at it. Yeah, no, I mean, it makes a lot of sense. I think...

It's just interesting because I think that's something I've thought a lot about too, which is like in terms of

you know, looking at families, like, why is it that, like, you're probably very different from your sisters. And it's like, what goes into that if you have similar experiences? You know what I mean? But that's something that I definitely don't know. I'm curious of one thing, which is transitioning from playing these sports to be thin, doing all these things. And now, like, I mean, you're beautiful, but you have lots of muscle tone. You look very fit. You're in shape. Like,

Was that part of the transition was like to go from exercising to be thin to exercising to be strong? Like, did that go with the mental shift or did that come before or after? I think a huge part of the mental shift was switching from trying to be as skinny as possible to being as strong as possible. So I had done some of the work beforehand and I think I had worked on overcoming the majority of, you know, of...

the eating disorder and body dysmorphia. But I feel like when I did step into that strength, when I started to work out to build, to actually build strength and muscle is when things just got exponentially better. Now I felt a lot more comfortable in who I was. And honestly, like ever since I started strength training, I've never been more stable, like physically, weight wise. Before when I was doing cardio, it was just a up and down exercise.

situation for me. I wasn't able to control my weight as easily and as naturally as I'm able to with strength training. It's incredible. And how did you learn how to strength train? Do you remember that? A lot of self, I mean, obviously, like getting a certificate here and there, but I think where the most impactful learnings come is just from like being your own

I say being your own laboratory and your own scientist and your own experiment. Yeah. And learning also as you go. Because what you do learn in school or through courses isn't all that translates into reality or isn't the best way to train. So it's a lot of like self-learning and a lot of self-training.

of different methods, different ways that work. And yeah, I think I've kind of refined as to what that is for me and I think for other women as well. It's funny because I think sometimes hearing that, it's like you just have to figure out what works. Nowadays we do. We have a lot of options. Like you have an app. People can Google. Like there's so many things and yet there's still so many people that aren't in shape. Yeah.

which is really interesting, especially when we have more access than ever. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it's interesting. There's statistics around only like 27% of women strength train. I mean, given that's a little bit, a couple of years dated because you don't have current data as we speak. I'm sure that's increased a little bit with just the knowledge that we have now and how important strength training is. But I just found that to be interesting.

just incredible like what that this is such a small percentage when we as women are the ones that benefit the most from strength training from building muscle because we are the one that experience so much of the bone loss and the muscle loss and that leads to fall breaking of bones and then actually you know unfortunately dying from it later down the road so um yeah it's so important

Wow. I think that kind of brings me to a question I wanted to ask you, which is like in working with so many women, what misconceptions do you think most women have about the fitness industry or nutrition? Well, if we're talking about like what they need to do as far as like working out and what will lead to certain results, I think a lot of women think that, again, cardio and perhaps doing Pilates is going to get them like that. That one kills me. Yeah.

The Pilates, because listen. I like Pilates too, but it's not going to build muscle. It's not. And I do like it too, honestly, I do. But everything has its place and time. And I think the misconception is that if you are going to lift weights is that you're going to become huge, bulky. And

you're going to turn into a man all of a sudden. Right. And that doesn't happen. It doesn't happen because our hormones just don't support that kind of muscle. It supports muscle that we need to build. We're born with this ability to build muscle because we need to build muscle for our health and longevity. It's funny because...

It's crazy to me that it's still the misconception because people still say it to me all the time. They're like, "Well, I don't want to get bulky." And I'm like, "Do I look bulky?" And people are like, "No, you look skinny." And I'm like, "I hip thrust 500 pounds and I barely have a butt." You know what I mean? Our bodies don't. And genetically, I do not keep muscle easily at all. I have to eat a lot. I have to eat a lot of protein. To be honest with you, it's not my priority right now. I haven't, but I still like lifting.

Um, but it's crazy to me because, uh, my husband likes to say like, you're like the strongest skinny person that I know, which is just like, I, you know, I remember I was dead lifting. Like I did like 375 for 10 and I was so proud. And he was like,

You can't even tell. It's just a joke. Oh my god, that's so funny. So when women are like, I'm going to get bulked? Yeah. Yeah, because strength comes in so many different shapes and sizes, right? It doesn't necessarily come... And it won't come with those big muscles. And I always like to say, you can always back off. But I promise you, you are not going to want to back off. No. It's so easy to just, all right, I'm just going to stop training. That muscle is just going to go away gradually. But...

Just back off. But again, like I said, I promise you that you won't want to back off. It's addictive feeling strong. It is. Looking strong. It is. Like hitting the next weight. Yeah. Trying to get that. I think I know for me at least like just going into, you know, the season I've been for the last two years has been mostly just being healthy.

You know, working out so I can have energy, working out so I can be healthy, not prioritizing, oh, I want to have a bigger butt or more toned arms or any, you know, I've just kind of been like, you know what, that's not what I'm prioritizing right now. I just want to keep the muscle I have and maintain my healthy body mass. And I just find it so fun to

it's almost like a game you know just like can I get a little stronger can I hit a little bit more can I do it a little bit better can I have a little bit better form and um I think it translates to a lot of areas of life because I mean I don't think it's a coincidence that you got A pluses and graduated in that amount of time and you also were able to do this and now also build a business I mean like that takes a tremendous amount of discipline and you I think it's um

There's like a Steve Jobs quote where they talk about this, but like, there's no way you're not enjoying it to a degree. Because I think a lot of people, they probably see what you do and how hard you work and, you know, what you look like. And they think, gosh, that looks so hard. But I would guess that you really love it because the thing is, is like, you can't do something that long that it does take that much effort if you don't love it.

There is aspects of that. There's aspects of loving, you know, if you're talking about like working out and training. But there's many days, there's many instances where you're like, I just don't want to do this today. But it's again, it's like that non-negotiable aspect, that discipline, that consistency and just the knowing and understanding.

what that does for you and your health, not just now for like long-term. So, and it's a game for me too. I always try to push myself a little bit more because again, there is this, you know, area in our brain that gets bigger as the anterior mid cingulate cortex that gets bigger as when we push ourselves to do things that we don't want to do. And it's found to be bigger in super agers, which are people that

are 80 or older or 70 or older, but their cognitive function, they operate as if they're like 40, 50, like somebody half their age cognitively. So I'm always like thinking about that, you know, I'm pushing myself. I don't want to do this, but I'm pushing myself to do it because I'm supporting my brain and I'm supporting myself and not just now, but again in my later years. And

That's what keeps me going. And it's not necessarily just the love of, I do love it, but not all the time. You don't have that love for it. And it translates into work as well. Not every day you're going to have the best day, but...

Every day you're going to show up and try to be your best because you know, again, what that will accumulate to and what that will lead into, not just the success of the company, but like the people that you affect and you impact within the company and outside. Yeah.

No, that's so true. There's so many days where I'm like, fuck this shit. It takes work. It does. It doesn't just, you know, sure, part could be because maybe, you know, natural born leader and there are certain characteristics about you, but it still takes work. It still takes work. And I think we all...

I joke with my husband sometimes. I'll just be like, I just want to stay in bed and watch cartoons today. Like, we all have the day that we feel like, just send it in. But I also, he's like, when have you ever done that? I was just going to say that. Yeah, I say that too. I'm like, today I just want to stay in bed and just like...

do nothing and he's like, "Okay, maybe one of these days you should actually do that because it never happens." It never happens. I'm the same way. I'm like, "I'll go back in bed after I get a workout in, I have breakfast, and I do these emails." And that's bedtime. Yeah. And now it's the end of the day and here we are. But that's funny. So after you went through, you came to the United States, you went to college, you finished very quickly.

Then you got into the workforce. Can you tell me a little bit about that period of time in your life? Like, how was that for you and what did that look like? Because I have a feeling that there was a lot of grinding that people don't see that happened before you got on social media. Yeah, well, I started off in New York. So if you're talking about, like, the most intense grind, and that's what I knew. It was academics will lead to a job that's

You'll have to grind at the job to be successful and stay up till five in the morning because I worked in a bidding department and putting the numbers together for the bids and getting the bids out of the door. And that was the grind of that job. Wow.

And it did teach me a lot about persevering, a lot about work ethic. And it's what I also have tried to keep alive even to this day because there is a misconception. You know, a lot of people nowadays will see me post-workout and they'll think that this is all I do. I work out all day. And little do they know like where I was and where I am now to running a very successful business.

two companies, but clothing, Zentoa, and then We Arise, but we'll talk about Zentoa. Yeah. Right now, we're focusing more our efforts onto We Arise, which is

you know, as we spoke about before, is this not just fitness platform, but personal development platform. But I digress. Yeah. So I started in New York in the sales bidding department. I was a senior financial analyst. And then I was just so tired of being behind a desk and, you know, crunching numbers. Were you working out during that time? I was not working out during the time. Not much. I was not super active because I was still kind of in that...

And I don't know if you had this, where I almost had to take a little bit of a break from working out to kind of balance things out. Yeah. And...

I used to go for a run here and there, but I wasn't obsessing about it. Because again, I wanted to normalize everything, working out and not working out. So yeah, I was, but not as regimented as I am now. I went from that to a sales job in pharmaceutical industry. My dad was a doctor, so I thought by being a pharmaceutical representative, I'd be as close as I possibly could to the medical industry and help patients. And I...

quickly realized that that wasn't what was happening, you know, even though I got a lot of great knowledge because you do end up doing a lot of case studies and you do a lot, learn a lot about physiology and how certain medications work. You get so little time with the doctors to even educate anybody on anything. So it just, I felt useless. And I did that for a while because it was, it was, it was a good job. I went after that, I wanted to do diagnostic sales and

At this point, I'd started to train and lift more regularly. And in a way, those jobs, even though they were not the best jobs suited for me or what I wanted to do, they did teach me a lot about having this human-to-human interaction. Sales, I think, is important, like developing those interpersonal skills and understanding and listening to your customer.

And then it wasn't until 2019 when I started to delve into this other aspect of my life, which is posting on Instagram while I was working full time as a diagnostic salesperson. Did someone encourage you to post or did you just like, I'll just start posting for fun? I believe it was my partner at the time who was like, all right, let's do this. You know, you love working out so much and you have so much to teach people. You know, like I told you, like all these like

training certificates and yoga and breath work and meditation. And even though it all started for me to help me approach health and fitness in a different way, I realized that I was holding on to something that was so valuable to others. I know that it had helped me overcome depression, anxiety, eating disorders.

And it could help so many women out there overcome the same things or similar things. So that's why I decided to share my workouts every single day from January of 2019 at 2,000 followers. And every day I would wake up. So whether it was like, you know, going on conferences or sales meetings, I was...

flying somewhere. Starting at 7, 8 o'clock in the morning, I would wake up at whatever time. It took 5 o'clock or earlier. And at times there would be co-workers at the gym and here I am setting up my water bottle and phone and filming my workouts. And it was like staring eyes. I'm sure. I still did my thing. So consistently from 2019, seven days a week, I would get up

Wow.

somebody posting a few couple of times a week with perhaps three exercises. There wasn't a full workout. It's just to kind of hook people in. But I was doing a full workout from start to finish every single day. So people didn't need to spend money on anything. I just follow my Instagram and get a full workout. That's, I mean, it's smart. It's like everyone's like,

oh no, you know, I can't post the full workout because then they can't pay me. It's like, that's kind of gross. Like let's give them as much value as possible. And then they're going to just say like, great, what else can you help me with? Exactly. So then you're working in diets and office sales, you switch over, you're posting everything on Instagram. At what point do you get out of that job?

It wasn't until I think a year and a few months after that, it was like during COVID that I decided to leave the job because I turned this following on Instagram, which grew rather quickly, I'd say by the end of that year, I believe it was like less than 200,000 followers, like 170,000 followers by the end of 2019, which I think that's relatively fast. Yeah. And yeah.

And I launched the first programs, the first workout programs on a website. And they did well. So I was able to then leave my job on April. I think it was April of 2020 during COVID. Wow. Yeah. It was a tough decision because, you know, coming from Albania, which is... You lacked safety and you lacked security financially. It was...

It was a tough decision. My parents always promoting having a steady job and a steady income and health and healthcare benefits, you know? So it wasn't easy, but I took the leap and I'm so happy that I did. Wow.

Wow. And then you went from, you know, you ended that year 200,000. Now you've got what, like over 5 million followers? Yeah, 5.9. Wow. No, that's really impressive, especially. I would have never, I could have never imagined that I would be where I am today, like in front of millions of people. Like, it's incredible. It's so cool. So let me ask you, I mean, and share what you want, but like,

Has it been tough? Because I'll be transparent. As you feel like more people are watching, it can add to the pressure. Has that at any point ever crept back in, that desire, that anxiety? Because I know that I've had to really even up my mental game more with the more visibility that I have. Is that something that you've struggled with at all?

I did. It started, it was the biggest milestone was like hitting 100,000. Yeah. At the time, you know, I was like, oh my gosh, 100,000 people are like looking at me this like, you know, who am I? Yeah. It's so cool though. I mean, I've always like throughout my life struggled with imposter syndrome. I can't say that I've like gotten rid of it, you know, completely. I don't know if you fully can, but yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. There's

you know, somewhat of that voice that's still in your head, but you just try to quiet it and just move forward. And just, I always say, like, look at these statistics, look at the data, the data doesn't lie, right? Like, if I was to try to do a checklist of the things that make me knowledgeable and successful person, I would check all the things on that list, right? And the voice is

going to be there. You just got to kind of shrug your shoulders at the voice and still and move on and move along. Yeah, you don't engage with it. You don't engage with it. I tell people that as like, it's there. An analogy I like to use is like, I take it in my purse with me. Mm.

It's always with me. I know it's in there, but I don't have to engage with it. It can just sit in my purse and chill by the side. Like it doesn't need to come into the conversations I'm having or what I'm doing. So no, I mean, it's good to know because I think a lot of people, I mean, especially with how big your following is and it being in fitness, like that's hard to keep your head in the game because sometimes I think, I mean, I see it with people. They get, it's almost like performance anxiety with their posts and with,

how the post's doing and like, is it enough? And if there's a down month, it's like, oh my gosh, like, am I not good enough? And like, you can start to judge your self-worth on it. You know what I mean? Do you have any advice for people who are struggling with that? I've been there. Yeah. I've been there where, you know, you hang on to every post, you know, just especially when you have tremendous success, when you have things perform tremendously and then obviously, but it's a cycle. It's like with everything is very cyclical. So just

keep your belief that things will turn around. You just keep doing what you're doing. I mean, that's the best advice that I ever received is just to be authentic and to be myself and to never try to be somebody else because there's only one of you. It's so true. There's nobody else that can do you. So,

I always stay true to that. And that's what I try to always keep in mind that there's cycles, there's things that are outside of your control, there's algorithms. In years, we have not yet been able to figure out. But do you give the best of you and as authentically as you can and just leave it at that. The rest will come. The rest will come. I agree with you and I love that advice. Yeah.

So you started posting, you gained this following, and then you start posting programs. But then your first official company, how did that, where did that idea come from and how did it come to life? It has transformed to what it is now. So it first started as a website with programs on there to now it being...

a platform for self-development where women can not only turn to for fitness, but also for advice around imposter syndrome, which we just kind of spoke about. Trauma therapy, relationships, personal growth and development, nutrition. And where that came from was because I knew what I personally needed help with. And I knew that I wasn't alone in that. And I know that it's not just fitness.

I think there are so many things that we, as women, want to work on and improve upon. And I think a lot of the thought leaders also out there and the studies have been men. So thought leaders, men, studies, men and women were kind of left to figure it out on their own. And sure, there's been improvements upon them and there is a lot more female thought leaders and women.

a lot more of our voices are being heard. But I still think that there is so much to be done there. So that's where the idea came from to create this, not just fitness platform, a personal development platform. That's really cool. I didn't realize it was so much personal development too. Yeah, because it's all, at the end of the day, it's so interconnected, right? Like our traumas can influence how we show up, how we...

work out or don't work out, how we make certain decisions with regards to eating or eating a certain way or not eating.

So I just kind of wanted to bring everything in a comprehensive way in one place with not just lectures, but like actionable tools. In every lesson, there's actionable items that somebody can do exercises very quick, again, not super time consuming so that they can see improvement. No, I love that. And how did you...

Like, you have this idea, you have the following, you know, you realize now you can quit your job. How did you find, I know you have shared you have a partner, but like, how did you find that person? How did you, because, you know, I think what I know and what you know is like, it's really hard to do this stuff alone. Like, you know, I, my partner is, you know, my husband, but then I also have a whole team. And so I'm curious, like, how did you figure out how to get the right people to make it happen? Mm-hmm.

Sometimes you have to kiss, you know, to then land on, you know, a great partnership. And I've been there. Yeah, I wouldn't change anything. It was such a learning process and I'm glad for it. And, you know, even then there was a lot of success, which now has doubled, so to speak, and increased.

you know, we're looking to magnify it even further, looking at different people that were able, that had the capabilities to complement what we brought to the table and finally landed on a partnership where they had done, they had built apps before. So they had that capacity of building apps and also managing some of those aspects when it came to marketing and growth and,

that part of the job that I didn't necessarily want to step into to do, you know, firsthand. Because I have my strengths. And yeah, we've landed in an amazing partnership. But it does, I think, with a lot of things in life, you have to, there's a learning curve. There's a learning curve. It's hard finding the right partner. But I think what you said is, it's what I tell a lot of people when they ask me, like, how do I find the right partner? And I say, yeah,

the person can't have the same skills as you. I can't tell you how many times I've been in a room and specifically in there in our event space and someone saying like, we're just trying to figure out how to divvy up our responsibilities. And I'm like, what are you good at? What are you good at? Marketing, marketing. And I'm like,

Why are you partners? You know, you're both the same skill. So I think what you said, like, compliment you. That's what you want because you want to stay in your strengths. Exactly. And like trust and trust and you build trust, but it also, there is an intuition, you know, and also the experience that comes with somebody having done a certain type of job or responsibilities or tasks that

you're looking for. So true. And with the app, you also have a clothing line, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, it might be news when this is live or might not, but we are completely going to shift focus into just the We Rise app and close Zentoa down. Women's fitness clothing is not...

an amazing business to get into, though we did well. It is a very tough business, especially as a small business with you don't have the unit orders that other companies do have and being able to get the pricing the bigger companies are able to. And with

shipping becoming so expensive, just the scaling of the business is just very difficult and plus the margins are so small. So when you have like such a successful business as a WeRise app,

Why would you not put all of your efforts and financial, you know, finances into that successful business? You know, it's... What you say sounds very reasonable, but most people wouldn't do that. They would just keep the other one going. Yeah, I mean, it was my little baby. It was a passion project. So I can say that it's not hard to give that up, but you have to make tough decisions.

decisions as a business owner and to let go of certain things to improve others. And I think the mission behind We Rise is so much more powerful and what we're trying to do with We Rise is so much more powerful than a clothing brand. Sure, it can be unique and sure it can be supportive, you know, of...

of women and goals, you know, clothing. You know, I love clothing. Yeah. I love Zentoa, but it's another clothing brand, you know, while what we're doing at Rearize is something completely unique that doesn't exist in the marketplace. I really respect that decision because I think a lot of people, they can't say no to even the smallest amount of success that

or money or opportunity because of ego. And so even just you saying like, yeah, I'm done with it. Like, I think I just want to recognize like that's not something many people do. And that right there is why your We Rise is probably going to be much more successful than it could have otherwise, because I can't tell you the amount of people that

have something really, really big right in front of them and they lose it and they don't get, they don't really fully capture the opportunity because they have these small things pulling at them still. Exactly. I think it's such a good decision. I think I call it like dilution of like energies and dilution of like focus. And yeah, I think we rise, it's such an important thing.

Such an important movement, as we call it within the team. It's a movement to not fully dedicate yourself to it. What do you... What's your vision for it? Because you call it a movement. I can tell you light up when you're talking about it. I can tell that this is not about...

I think there's two different types of people. I've said this many times, people who use business to make money and people who use money to make business to make people's lives better. It seems like you really want to use this vehicle to help people and I can feel that in watching interviews of you and in talking to you. What's the vision for where it's going? Whether that's a year, two years, five years, there's no time, just as far out as you see.

And you captured it correctly. For me, the driver, sure, I want to have a successful business, but my mission, it's part of my purpose in life is to help as many women as I can, help as many people as I can to live their fullest version of themselves. And that is the vision for We Rise 2 and the company is to become this one-stop shop for women's personal development and

not with just fitness and these five experts that we just brought on board, but to have thousands of experts and then narrow it down to what areas are most needed in any singular woman's life where they need help with and then tailor it to that particular person so that they can get the most out of the app and out of the process of self-development. Because a lot of the time we do consume possibilities

podcasts or self-help books, but if you're not taking any action out of all of those, then you're not moving forward. But the aim of We Rise is to not just provide you that information, but to help you take those steps. I always say intelligence is the rate of learning, and learning is same condition, new behavior. Mm-hmm.

And so I think what you're saying is it's like you want people to really learn. You want them to consume something and take action, which is learning. And just improve their lives. Just become who they've always wanted to be. Become, again, I feel like there is this...

I don't want to call it, I never like calling it best version of ourselves, but the fuller version of ourselves, like the fullest expression of ourselves. And where is that? In what areas might we help with so that you can step into that? It's already within you. You just need to take those actions and implement those tools and step into that, into the masterpiece that you already are. That's sweet. Is this app what you wish you would have had?

Yeah, absolutely. But I don't regret it being what it was because it gave me time to also learn and to be what it is now and to what it's going to be. So let me ask you a question. What's the hardest challenge for you right now? If you feel like sharing, you know, I can share too. Yeah, the hardest challenge right now, it's...

I'm always like, this needed to happen yesterday. Which, again, doesn't make sense in the question that you just asked. Like, do I wish I had had this app? And honestly, I think there were things that I needed to learn along the way. But I think...

just keeping a knowing that everything will be where it needs to be in due time. I think it's one of the things I'm always thinking like 10 steps ahead and I just need to be here now. Well, I think, you know, agreed. Also, I think as the CEO of a company and as the person who founded it, you kind of want to be 10 steps ahead. But the

what that means is there's a constant frustration because you are 10 steps ahead, but your team's 10 steps behind trying to keep up with what you want to get out there, right? You have to give them the grace to, I mean, my team runs, they don't, or sprint. They start the job and they're sprinting before they're even walking. And I love them because they're so good at doing that. But even with that, there's still time needed. Yeah.

And that's totally fine. And yeah, that's one of the things that I've learned is to like, okay, everybody needs to come in step together and we'll get there. We'll get there. I love that. What lessons do you think you learned through your health and fitness journey that have applied to business and building a business? Because it's such a, they're so different, right? But they're both very prevalent in your life. Yeah.

Things take time, which I guess ties into that. You know, things take time. You don't expect results overnight and you need to put forth the correct steps to get the results that you want. So...

creating the habits, you know, creating the habits with working out and eating. Same thing with and putting that work in day in and day out. And even some days might not turn out to be what you wanted them to be. But keeping your head down and kind of pushing forward, I think it's been a huge lesson. Or it's just been something that I have carried from my fitness to then running a business.

Is there anything that surprised you, like in getting in and having your own business that you didn't expect? I didn't expect to have a business.

Again, I think coming from such simple background with, again, always prioritizing security and safety versus what it takes to be an entrepreneur, which is sometimes you have to take risks. So, yeah. It is. It's such a different. Yeah. How is that with?

You know, you've shared like having anxiety in the past and like that being like, has it challenged that at times for you? Of course, for sure. I mean, you know, there's a part of me that still thinks that the other shoe is going to drop. Yeah.

We all do. Yeah, but I remind myself that even I have a degree to fall back on. I have experience to fall back on. So it's like at the very least, I can go work at a coffee shop. I will not starve for food. I'll be okay. Because again, it goes back to how I grew up with like rationed food and safety is such a big thing. So I even have to remind myself sometimes of those even small things that...

I could do, you know, is work in a coffee shop and I'll be okay. Right. I used to always say I can just go back into sales and sell cars or something. After going to sales, I'm like, well, I mean, it's better than a lot of other jobs that some people have. So now that you have WeRise and you're building that, and that takes, I'm sure, a lot of time, and you're also still posting, you're still the face, you're still a big brand person.

How do you manage to do all of it? Because I think that's probably what a lot of people look at you and think is like, how are you able to, like, do you have a secret to how you structure your days? Do you have any routine tips that have worked for you well in terms of like being able to be actually healthy and run a business?

Being flexible is huge for me. And I used to be a lot more regimented and strict about what needed to happen. And now I have to be a lot more flexible because we do work with

partners that are in different time zones and team members that are in different time zones. So flexibility, but still keeping certain things non-negotiable, like my mental health and my physical health, like those are things that I will not negotiate on. And I don't necessarily need to be strict about this is when I work out and this is the only time that I work out, but I need to get a workout in no matter what. Yeah. So...

I think having that flexibility has been key. It's interesting because people have asked me as well, how do you get a lot done? And I often, I've said something similar. I say I've had to learn to trade rigidity for flexibility. Yes. Which is I don't get everything I want at the times I want in my day. I will fit them in. Sometimes it sucks because I don't like working out at that time or I don't like rest.

reading at that time or I don't like working at that time, but I want to get it done.

Yes, I think. And yeah, thank you for reminding me. So, and I always had this idea that like being a business owner, you had to, this is the structure and it needs to follow. And, you know, if you're not getting up at 4.30 in the morning and boom, boom, boom, just that's what needed to be. And it's not what it is because besides working out, I prioritize my sleep as well. It's super important for me. So then how I structure my day is that

I'll eat breakfast. I'll have my matcha in the morning and then have meetings, training, training Kim. I do still post. I manage my own social media. Wow. I do manage it. So I still film my own workouts and stuff.

I still manage Sonata.reca. You say it like, do you want to change that or do you like that? Because I do like that because it keeps me connected to my followers. It keeps me connected to the customer. I respect that. Yeah, I like to know firsthand what's going on.

on. And eventually, who knows if I'm going to be able to carry that for, I don't know, but I want to carry it on for as long as I possibly can where I am the one that is responding to messages because I am. I'm the one responding to comments and I like keeping that. But so all of these pieces between meetings and strategizing and getting my social media stuff done and

Working on programs, working on courses and all of these pieces, they fit in a day. You just have to be flexible as to where they fit in a day. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because I don't know if you experienced this, but I remember when I first started in business and I first started having a lot of meetings and things I had to do and

I had a really hard time from switching. I remember I would be like on an interview, then I'd be talking to a potential partner, then I'd be working with a teammate on a marketing thing, and then I'd like go to the gym, and then I'd come back, and then it'd be like now I, and it used to be hard.

And then now it feels second nature to just be able to kind of switch. And I think that that is what flexibility is, is that ability to switch without pain. It's like there's no more friction. Does that resonate? Absolutely. 100%. I think there was some friction, like you said, or some need to control what needed to be done where. And as soon as you kind of let that go and are just able to step into these different roles without friction, as you said, I think it makes everything so much easier. It's

Instead of having this idea, ideology of how things should be, allow things to be what they are. Yeah, I hear a lot of acceptance in everything you talk about. That's been a huge lesson in my life, to accept and to not be so controlling. I think that we share that in common. Yeah.

I mean, listen, like I think the controlling aspect, like it brings other benefits into our lives and how we operate. But I think it also can be an enemy as to our own health and sanity.