Empowering yourself by setting boundaries with family with Catherine Ebs
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the comfiest pajamas. And you guys, they make them in tall. So tall girls like Jordan and I, there's an option on the website. You just click tall. And when I wear my house shoes, they are touching the ground and I absolutely love it. So Cozy Earth's goal is to help you create a sanctuary within your home, a refuge from the demands of the outside world. They understand the significance of finding comfort and tranquility in these hectic lives. So give the gift of Cozy Earth right

Wrap your loved ones in luxury with Cozy Earth. Visit CozyEarth.com slash mean and use our code for exclusive 40% off. That's code mean, M-E-A-N, to give the gift of luxury this holiday season. That's CozyEarth.com slash mean. If you get a post-purchase survey, say you heard about Cozy Earth from the Mean Girl podcast. So like why did you want to be away from family?

There's no reason that my friend should have my back more than my family does, you know? Family is almost like a, it is a forced relationship, but that distance is, it's, it makes you not force your relationship. It makes you want to choose it. And if you choose it, it's so much easier and better. And then you can also go home. Yeah. Like, okay, I don't rely on you anymore. Do you know when you have your period, you shouldn't do like anything that you need to use your brain a lot of because it,

doesn't operate at its full extent. - Like I am a whole other person to the point I'm like, I feel like I have situational depression the week before my period. He was like, "An IVF baby is still an IVF." Like it's still a real baby. - Yes. - It's just where it is made and ethically, depending on where you get your diamonds, they're the exact same. It's just one was made in a lab versus mine. - Welcome back to another episode of Mean Girl Pod.

Today is interview day. Yes. I hope everyone had a happy Thanksgiving, first of all. And then today is interview day. Yes. Oh my God, yeah. I hope you had a great Thanksgiving. We're recording this pre-Thanksgiving, unfortunately, so I can't actually ask how your Thanksgiving was. It was so great. I was so full.

So you guys, this episode is going to be a little different. When Alex was on maternity leave, we recorded this episode with Catherine Ebbs. She's awesome and phenomenal. So that's the episode that's going to be playing today because Alex was just a little go-getter and came back from maternity leave immediately. Yeah.

But you loved this episode so much because you had already recorded it that you were like, let's put it out after Thanksgiving. And it was like, perfect. Yeah. And Catherine's great. She, like I said last week, she was like born and raised in Florida.

Sorry, she was born in Florida, raised in Minnesota, now lives in Texas. So she's a girl who just lives in all our favorite states. And this episode is great because we talk about family drama, weddings, lab-grown diamonds, so many fun topics. So I think you guys will enjoy it. And then next week, Alex and I will be together in L.A. recording. Yes, I'm so excited for L.A. I can't wait. And also our merch that we're both wearing.

Third week in a row, I think. It's on sale, you guys. Third week in a row. We're obsessed with it. This is like our coziest drop yet. So don't forget to buy it, you guys. You know where to find it. We've posted it everywhere. But go get your merch and get your sweatsuit. And we love you guys and hope you enjoy our interview with Catherine. Welcome back to another episode of Mean Girl Pod. Today I have a very special guest, Catherine Eves, a fellow Minnesotan. Fellow Minnesotan. I know I love this. You're the first person...

I guess ever to be on the podcast from Minnesota or even like the Midwest. Yeah. I was there for a long time. I don't have the accent though. It's originally from Florida, but. Okay. I was going to say you, you really got rid of yours if you did have it. Never had it. Okay. So born and raised. Florida. And then what year did you move to Minnesota? 2015. 2015. And then I just moved out. Where can you say where you, where you're from?

St. Paul. Yeah. My dad was born and raised Roseville and I actually really wanted to live in a big city after, cause I'm not a beach girl. Yeah. And my mom's whole family's from the beach. And so I wanted to move to a bigger city, but I just, one didn't have the funds and two was a little intimidated. So tried out Minneapolis and was there for almost 10 years. I love that. So my, I'm from Northfield, but my parents moved to St. Paul when I graduated college and my, um,

ex-boyfriend that I dated like five years ago his whole family's from St. Paul so I like feel like that's my that was my second home in Minnesota I love St. Paul and then if you're from Minneapolis St. Paul area you choose one of the other cities and I was always a diehard St. Paul girl oh Sam I had to be yeah I'd be like crucified if I said I said Minnesota not the crucifixion

They'd be like, we're disowning you. Sorry, you're done. Yeah, sorry. Gotta go. Yeah. Okay, so quick before we get into all the fun parts of the episode, we just have to quick talk about Monster, our presenting sponsor. So what flavor did I give you today? I have the Ultra Strawberry Dreams. Did you drink these when you were in Minnesota? Yeah.

No, but my best friend is addicted to that one that you're holding. She just gave birth a month ago, and that was the only thing she asked for in delivery, like right after the baby came out. Stop. I swear, before she started producing, she was like, okay, I need to get my energy drink. She's like, my push present is going to be a 12-pack of Monsters. Right. Amen. And she got what she wanted, so cheers. Oh, my God. Whoopsie, I just spilled. No, that's literally like.

a girl after my own heart i'd be like give me a 12 pack please that's all i need to caffeinate right um okay so the way we start off every episode as we talk about our roses and thorns for the week so do you want to go first and share don't get me started i've been waiting for my moment okay so i'm just gonna start with my bad because i feel like everyone starts with the good and then ends with the bad okay so i booked my monoi my

My mom and I blow out. Your mom's here. My mom is here. My puppy just got spayed and normally my husband travels with me, but I was like, I can't leave her with like a dog sitter. I just felt wrong doing that. So I made my mom come with me. What is your dog's name? We have Crew, Hadley, and Ebby. Cute. And which one got spaded? Crew. Okay. Yeah.

Anyways, so I booked us a blowout. So we went to Dry Bar this morning. Come to find out everyone's like, don't go to Dry Bar. Well, I did. Okay. They didn't tell me that I was with like a trainee, which is fine. I'm actually normally the girl that's like, absolutely. Like I love to be with a trainee, but I didn't like how it like all went out, went down. My hair looks like trash. I will literally send you the photo if you want it. We'll put it up. I was like, please be so for real right now. And then I found out that it was a trainee.

And I was like, that just kind of annoyed me because I also paid full price. And then they were like, yeah. Wait, you didn't get a discount? No. Okay, that's very odd. But I'm like, why wouldn't you have said that? And I posted on my Instagram stories and I was like, I don't mean to be bratty, especially because like, I'm not, like if I get bad food somewhere, I'll eat it and I don't care.

But I was annoyed. And so I posted it. I have like hundreds of DMs saying like, no, dry bar sucks. And I'm like, that's sad. And so many people are like, I actually work for a dry bar and we have to disclose if it's a trainee or not. And you're supposed to get a discount. Yeah. I was like... Because every place that you go to in New York, if you get a trainee, it's like a discount. Yeah. Because we are like, we need discounts in New York City. But I've never been somewhere where they're like, not willing to disclose that. Yeah. Also...

to be so nice. Like you deserve to complain about what the back of your hair looks like. That was ridiculous. - It was bad. It was bad. She'll have to insert it. - I will. And your mom's looked so good. - It looked so good. She was with the trainer. - Yes. My mom came in and I was like, dang, she ended up quick.

And then the trainer came at my very last curl and they were like, the trainer was like, no, you're curling the other way. It needs to go outward. Yeah. So my curls are going inward anyways. I'm it's fine. If that's my worst problem of the week, then I'm having a great week. But you did it. You like now it's from you and it looks fabulous. But I am just like, it does suck when you spend your own money on something. And also the whole point of me going there is to not have to worry and stress and do it myself. Yeah. I'm not really sure why dry bar in

New York City has a little bit of an issue. Like, I've seen a lot of people on the internet have really bad experiences. Yeah, I don't get it. I don't either. And I will clarify, everyone in my DMs is saying it's just New York. Everywhere else is fine. So, whatever. It is what it is. Okay. Pro of the week...

My mom and I don't get to travel often, and I just love New York, so I'm really excited to be here with her and run around. I actually booked us an extra day just to run around. Fun. So, yeah. What is, like, the top of your guys' bucket list this week? Literally nothing. Just have fun. Okay. But I like coming to New York with no plans because it's always so busy where I'm like,

It just gets really booked and busy quick. And then you're just exhausted and you want to go home. So I kind of like leaving it a little bit more free to just do whatever, wherever the wind blows. And I love that. Those are the fun ones. Are you guys walkers? Love. Okay. So the city is your oyster. Like you guys don't need plans. Yeah.

She was like, do I wear sandals or tennis shoes today? I was like, tennis shoes because we will be walking. Yes. I know. When you asked me, like, what's the vibe of the podcast? I was like, dress cute. Because I was like, especially when you leave this, you're going to want to, like, walk around and get food and stuff. You're just going to want to be comfortable. Yeah. Absolutely. Or no, did I say cute? Dress comfy. I was like, cute and comfy is fine. Sorry. I meant dress comfy. I have, like, period brain right now, which is... Sometimes that's as bad as pregnancy brain. No. Have you heard of period brain? It's like...

So I learned this in college from one of my friends, so it could totally be false. But one of my friends was like, do you know when you have your period, you shouldn't do like any public speaking or anything that you need to use your brain a lot of because it doesn't operate at like its full extent. That makes sense. Yeah. So like you stumble over your words, it's just a mess. See, that's a daily occurrence for me without my ADHD meds. I'm always like...

Literally. So I met, I told her to dress comfy, but yeah. So my thorn of the week, I'll do my thorn first as well is, so I don't know if this happens to you, but when you get your period, does it just like knock you out or are you just. Mine's the week before. Okay. Like I am a whole other person to the point. I'm like, I feel like I have situational depression the week before my period. Yes. But yours is the week of. So.

It depends on like which ovary it is. So no. Did you know that? What? I also learned this. This is all from like my one friend. And I'm like, is any of this factual? I don't know. But apparently like your period comes out of like a different ovary every month. So like your left side might be a worse period than your right side, which I didn't know that.

So they do say your left is always worse for anything you do because the brains, it's the more sensitive side. So have you ever done like Botox or something or like lip filler? Your left side is always going to hurt more than your right. And I learned that from my injector, which makes sense. Like everything on my left always hurts more. I always actually asked to get my shots in my right arm. Everything I asked to do on my right side.

Okay. Like IVs or anything. Yeah. That's good to know. Cause I always did my left just because they're like, don't use your, don't hit your dominant arm, but now I'm going to get injections and stuff on my right. But if you're less, which that's more for people who are like more tense. Cause then if they hit the muscle, which they're going through the muscle anyways, but if your muscles tense, that's where it's more sore.

But now that you know that, your right side will probably be a little bit more relaxed, which is fine. Yeah. Yeah, so I'll have like one month where I won't even feel anything before my period. I'll be like, oh my God, life is great. I'll go to the bathroom. I'm like, it's here. And then the next month, I'm on my deathbed. Like,

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For a hearse, weight loss is not available everywhere. Compounded products are not FDA approved or verified for safety, effectiveness, or quality. Prescription required. Restrictions apply. We go be an ozempic are not compounded. Have you seen those TikToks of people explaining like all the phases of your period? Yes. I sent each one to my husband and now he's like, he knows more about women's bodies than me. And he'll be like, it's fine. It's the week before your period. The alludial phase. I'm like, golf king. I'm like, it's like crazy how your body changes.

changes so much from those phases though yeah where I'm like I just like or the calorie intake or what workouts you're supposed to be doing I was like why did we not learn this in fifth grade

Literally. Like, I wanted to know this back then. Literally. I'm like, even like the whole like different ovaries, which hopefully that is right. Because people are going to like DM me like, you're very wrong. You're an idiot. Literally. But I'm like, I think I'm right. Just don't put it as a clip so you don't get nationally abused. I'm 90% sure. It's accurate. Okay. We'll have to Google that later. Well, I know. I have like a computer in front of me and I like refuse. She's like, I'm 90% sure. Like, dude.

And then my rose for the week is just sleeping back in my own bed. I love, there's nothing better than after you travel for a while, just going back to your own bed and sleeping. Yeah. I, like, I don't know, do you sleep well when you travel or when you go to hotels?

I do, just because I sleep with all three girls back home and my husband. Yes. Please say you have a king bed. We do. Okay. So, like, I enjoy my first few nights in a hotel because I actually sleep all the way through. But then after that, I'm like, okay, I'm ready to go back home. Yeah. Are your dogs snores? No, but my husband is.

Speaking of, I went to go visit my best friend when she gave birth. I woke up to, and mind you, I went by myself. And I woke up to snoring and I was like, what grown man is in my bed? I look over, it's her big ass pit bull just snoring away. It literally sounded like a grown man. I was like, what is happening? My parents have this tiny French bulldog and you can hear him a mile away when he snores. And he will, he likes to like lay right in your ear. And I'm just like...

Okay, this is fine. He has to be touching you when he sleeps. Yeah. So either it has to be in between your legs or on your side, and he'll just snore so loud in your ear, but you're like, you're so cute, so it's fine. You're like, I'm glad you're getting a good night's sleep. I know. Because you just left Florida, right? I did, yeah. So you moved from Tampa to Minnesota to Dallas. Yes. So I was in a small town right outside of Clearwater Beach. It's called Dunedin. I don't know if you've heard of it. Yeah. Yeah, that's...

bread from there. Oh my god. Yeah, I love it. Um I just wasn't a beach girl. I love the cities and so I moved to Minneapolis. Was

was there for a while met my husband and he's actually from Florida too so that was like a weird little coincidence but one of our first questions to each other is like do you want to be in Minnesota long term and both of us were like no and I was like all right sold I'll sign the marriage certificate today that's a really important question absolutely yeah absolutely because some Minnesotans you know they're like die hard never leaving love my family raising my kids here which I love and like that's every state there's people who just ride or dies for their state but we

My husband and I just weren't like that. And I don't know. I'm just not really-- I don't love the cold. I don't mind it. And I do like season changes, but not to the point where it's like-- in Texas, people are like, well, it's hot for multiple months. I'm like, yeah, but when it's hot, you can still drive. You can still go places. Your AC still works. In Minnesota, it gets so cold and so snowy, your car won't start. You can't drive on the roads. Your heat might go out. And that's months at a time, too. So I'm like, at least if it's hot, I can still

live life and not have to hunker down in my house. Yeah. People don't understand how cold it can get. Yeah. Like, do you remember when I got to, I think it was like a negative 60 wind chill and like they actually closed down. I talk about this every day.

day I swear I bring it up because people every time they find them on Minnesota I was like yeah my cart didn't start for three days my heat went out in my apartment did it really the uh the maintenance people had to bring in actual space heaters for me oh my gosh like people don't understand like we work was canceled yeah because they were like don't go outside yeah I'm like okay so at that time I was actually in accounting for a plumbing and heating company oh my god and that

went nuts because everyone's like pipes froze. So then their pipes froze and burst in their walls. They had people like plumbers coming out for that. Then they had heat people coming out for like their boilers. That's like the months to make money in Minnesota. They don't care about the AC season. They care about heat season. Literally. I'm like sad. I know. And at least in Dallas too, everyone's

everything is properly air conditioned. We're like in New York. You'll walk in someone, you're like, it's 90 degrees outside, but you don't have your AC running. Like when you're in Florida or Texas, you go into any building and you're like, this feels so good. Yeah. It's so nice. I'm almost like, it's too cold. I'm like, turn it down. It works. Okay. It works. Turn it off. Was there a certain reason you guys picked Dallas? You know, when you discover a new binge worthy show or a song that can, you can bump on repeat and you have to share it with your friends so they can experience just how awesome it is.

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Taxes were like the biggest reason we wanted to move. Just doing what I do. I was taxed pretty heavily in Minnesota, which love that for the state of Minnesota, like the people that need help get a lot of assistance there. But it was a lot.

And so we were looking at like, I think there's five or six states and we were looking at all those and Texas just seemed to be the best. Florida was an option, but we didn't want to go back. We're like, we've already done that. So, and another thing is we really wanted to be away from family. I know that sounds kind of crazy, but both of us were like,

And now our family's following us. So I'm like, come on down. Wait, can we talk about that? Yeah. Because I feel like that's a pretty large part of your social media journey is you really opening up about some of the struggles you've had with your family. Yeah. Like that's why I think a lot of people really relate to you and like love following you because you're so open and honest about it. So like why did you want to be away from family?

- You know like when you're, well obviously you probably don't have, you know when something goes wrong, your family calls you, you're like the first call because you're, I was the daughter and the sister and the cousin that when something would go wrong, I would always answer and I would always show up to help. But it was getting exhausting.

being a wife and also still having to come home and like be a wife, you know? And then he didn't have any family in Minnesota. He moved to Minnesota for football. So he was the only person out there. And I felt so guilty almost every single week I was bringing something into our house.

And he wasn't, but he was having to deal with like my family and what was being brought in. And that's hard, especially when you're like freshly married. You're like, this is supposed to be the best times of my life. And I'm sitting here just like drama filled and on social media, you're bullied all day long. And then your family bullies you. I'm like, okay, this is not how this is supposed to be. So that was a big reason why we wanted to move. And then another reason is again, he's not where like, he hasn't lived by his family. A lot of his, all his family's in Florida and a couple are in California.

And I was like, well, if we're moving somewhere, I would feel guilty moving somewhere where he had family and then someone else was jealous. And I don't know. So it was another piece of it. So, yeah. When you were in Minnesota, did you find it easy to set boundaries with your family or was like moving the only option? After my dad died, that was like the hardest part for me is because boundaries, my, that side of my family is very like, um,

So a boundary to them isn't like, oh, she's doing something that's like good for her and her now family. Because my husband's my core family now. They were more like, oh, look at Catherine thinking that she can set a boundary. And like still to this day, I'm still having problems. Yeah. From back home of just like when they lack control, they'll try to come from any angle that they can. And it's hard. Yeah. I think it's really important to relay the message that.

Blood doesn't need to be your core family. It can be your husband, your best friend. Because I think a lot of people, especially coming from the Midwest, think that they have to stick with their family that's blood. And then it ends up being toxic because they don't really want to stick with that family. Where I've noticed like being in New York, a lot of people's family is their closest friends, their partner. And they've left family.

their blood family because it just was so toxic. Yeah. Well, as a kid looking at your parents, that's your family, right? Well, they had to become family at some point, which was their marriage. So now I'm looking at it as like one day,

we're going to have children and we're their family. My husband is my only, like, he's my closest relative now. But a lot of people think that it's just because you're bonded by paper versus blood. And I'm like, no, that's the whole point in a marriage. Like that is your core family. You're now parents are your secondary family. Um, and it's the same, like when you talk about your parents, like that's your family. Well, how did they get there? It was a, it was a certificate. So

I don't know. It's hard because you do you are raised like that and like family sticks together and you do that and like it doesn't matter. It's family. But I'm like, there's no reason that my friend should have my back more than my family does. You know, I don't know. It's very odd. And I also come from a blended family. So that was actually a really other huge piece of it was it wasn't even necessarily my blood. It was the stepmom who was.

very upset with how things were going and like she's trying to pin like siblings against each other and it's just like that's so weird that's so weird that's really hard especially I can't imagine what it was like once your dad passed and then having to deal with that because you're like you were brought into this family because of my dad yeah and if it wasn't like do you have a relationship with your stepmom at all no and I did for a very long time I always said because my okay so my dad and my stepmom got together when I was like

not even old enough to remember their wedding. I don't like that. Like she's been around. She, their storyline, they actually met children and they dated in high school college. She wanted to get married. He didn't, he moved to Florida. I met my mom when they divorced. Cause he met my mom, got, had two children with my mom, came back to Minnesota, got with my step-mom. So I say all the time, it's not like we showed up when we were 10, 15 years old and say, Hey, you're my daddy. Like you literally knew there was other children involved and,

And things have been said along the lines of because they had the relationship first and then he got quote unquote another woman knocked up, she has literally said that you are supposed to be mine. So she has like a weird mindset around like, I don't know, it's just, it's odd.

But I have two younger brothers through them, so they're halves, and was always very, very close with them. One of them actually just moved to Dallas to follow me. I saw that. Yes. But that was like when he called me and told me that I had like a low-key panic attack because I'm like, she's going to think that I'm doing this in spite of her and I'm like convincing you to move here. But you shouldn't feel like that. Like my little brother has never been half-brother. Those are my younger brothers. Like it just is what it is.

But I shouldn't be terrified that my brother is moving close because my stepmom is going to find something to harass me with or something. I don't know. She should be happy that your brother wants to be close to you. Absolutely. Or that has someone in a new city that he can rely on and reach out to. And I don't know, as a mom, you would just, I don't have kids, but I would hope that

Even if I had my own blood child and there was a stepchild involved, I would just be happy that there was a relationship there. Yeah. I just think it's hard because I'll never understand. And that's always where I'm just like, if I can't compute it in my own brain, I'm like, I almost glitch because I'm like, someone has to like put this on paper because I need to understand. Yeah.

but I don't think I ever will. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. We all carry around different stressors, both big and small. When we keep them bottled up, it can start to affect us negatively. And you know what the good news is, you guys? Therapy is a safe place to get these things off your chest and figure out how to work through whatever is weighing you down. You guys know since the inception of Mean Girl Pod, Jordan and I have been massive proponents of therapy. We think there is no greater gift you can give yourself because you never know what life's going to throw at you.

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than some of your other family members that things have gotten better or just... Yes, 100%. And I feel very peaceful in Texas. A lot of followers have even noticed that too. They're like, you look just so different here. You look so bright and glowy. Like I've even noticed that. I'm like, you always look so happy and like you just have like this glow on your face. It's...

It's crazy like what your situation can do to you. And I wouldn't even say that I lived a bad life in Minnesota. I still lived a great life, still lived the same life. It's just how different your surroundings could be. And it actually so I was with that same little brother at Costco a couple of months before we officially decided to move.

And I remember coming around the corner with my little brother and I saw a woman who almost identical was to my stepmom. And I like, I literally full on, my heart was pounding. I got really hot because I knew my little brother was right behind me. And I was scared of what her reaction was gonna be seeing us together.

And it wasn't even her. But I was like, I didn't realize the anxiety that I was living in just running into her. And also like the fact that I was scared to be, I felt like a little girl who was like running around town with a boy and you're not, and you said you were at your friend's house, you know, like I just, the anxiety and I'm just like.

I don't know. I don't know. I think it can be really powerful to move away from your family. I didn't have like a horrible relationship with my mom and dad by any means, but we went through like a little bit of a rocky period pre-COVID. And moving to New York has like made our relationship so much stronger. Like I grew up, they were my everything. And then we kind of had like this relationship.

a little bit of a distance in Minnesota. I moved to New York and now I'm just as close to them as I was before. And I attribute that all to being so far from them. And now I think I'm ready and in a place where I can move near them again. But I just needed that from like my own mental health, being away from some of like the toxic things

habits that my dad might do and it just like it's it can be so healthy and beneficial to not be near your family yeah we're also so individual and it's it's hard because even like your siblings you could be so different from your parents you could be so different but

family is almost like a it is a forced relationship but like that's like staying with a boy you know for no reason but that distance is it's it makes you not force your relationship it makes you want to choose it and if you choose it it's so much easier and better and then you can also go home yeah like okay I don't rely on you anymore but yeah I'm I encourage everyone to leave and what's the worst thing that happened you hate it and you move back okay yeah I know it's crazy too because I feel like our generation is in the generation of I don't know if you go to therapy but like yeah

where we go and we learn all these things about why we are the way we are due to our parents. And then you see our parents struggle with things. And you're like, if you would go to therapy, you would know why. I'm like, I will pay for it.

was in therapy today and I was like, I wish my dad would go to therapy so badly. Or I like dig into them. I was like, what happened in your life? You're going to stay here and tell me. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, everything would be more beautiful. I like it because I see them more as people now versus my parents. Yes. And that's just in general where I'm like, what happened to you? Anything bad? When people treat me poorly, I'm like, okay, I didn't do anything. So like, what happened to you? And I don't know, it's just kind of like,

which is kind of cool. Or like, Oh, I have the upper hand. Like I know something happened to you, but like, what's going to happen? Like, when are you going to tell me? I could not agree more. I think therapy has given me so much more grace towards like my brother, my mom and my dad and just people in general. Cause I'm like, okay, you're not doing this because of me. You're doing this because something happened to you. And yeah,

seeing them as people versus your parents is so powerful. It actually makes you a little emotional because you're like, wait, you're going through life the exact same time as I am and experiencing things for the first time ever like I am. Yeah. Like today's their first today. Yeah. It's wild. Or like when you're in New York with your mom, you're like, oh my God, you're experiencing this day in New York City the exact same time as me. Yeah. Isn't that weird? It's so weird. It's almost like a high thought, but you're like, I'm not.

I'm not. Because growing up, you think that your parents have just like experienced everything under the sun. And then you get older and you're like, wait a second, you're a person. Well, I also come from the mother who says I know it all and don't ask me questions. So I'm like, okay, you're a liar. Yeah. Yeah. So it's wild, but I'm so grateful for therapy. So grateful for therapy. So grateful for my therapist. Thank you. Thanks, Molly. So going back to, you mentioned your husband a few times. His name is Raphael, right? Yes. How did you guys meet?

He seems like a sweetheart. I love his class. I love him. It's so crazy because you meet people online, like...

I've met a couple people online. I'm like, you're not the same. But everyone that meets Rafael in person is like, holy shit. Like, you really are actually that kind of guy. So we met in Minnesota. I was working at Wells Fargo. And he had come in. And he has, like, a full sleeve of Florida. And he had 407 on him. And I was like, 407? And I was like, not Orlando. Like, whatever. And he was like, how do you know Orlando? And I was like, I'm from Tampa. We got each other's Snapchats. This is in...

I love Snapchat. That was in the era of like you give out Snapchats versus your phone number, which I'm grateful that I did. What year was that? Twenty seventeen, twenty sixteen. I don't know. A long time ago. And then we just like remain Snapchat friends. I had had an ex-boyfriend that I went like got back with after meeting Raphael. And I was like with him for years. Raphael and I just kept bumping into each other everywhere we would go.

And then in... It's like the invisible string theory. I walked down to invisible string for the aisle. Yeah. Because I was like, I just love it. It was so weird. So, okay. So I didn't know anything of what he did. I literally only knew his Snapchat name because... And back in the day, he only went by his last name because he was a football player. So like that's very common in the football world. So I didn't even know his name was Rafael. Like I knew nothing about him. And...

We would just bump into each other all the time. He would pick up bouncing gigs at, like, local bars. So I moved out to the suburbs. Do you know Maplewood? Yeah. I moved out to Maplewood. Very random little town. And he was bouncing at a bar there, and I ran into him, and I was like, what are you doing here? He's like, what are you doing here? Then I moved downtown, and I looked out my front window. I was right off Mears Park in downtown St. Paul. Oh, yeah. My parents used to live over there. I love it. Cosmo? I was at the Cosmo. Oh, they lived, like, a little bit...

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so I saw his car and weirdly I like memorized because I'm a numbers girly so I memorized his license plate and I was like why he was literally parked right outside my apartment building so I messaged him on snapchat I was like what are you doing down here and he was like oh I live down here we ended up being only like two or three blocks from each other 2020 came around it was January I got in jury duty and I posted on snapchat that I was at jury duty he messaged me on snapchat and was like what judge do I need to talk to mind you all I knew about him is that he bounced every once in a while like I knew nothing about him I was like what do

what do you mean what judge do you need to talk to i was like i'm here for jury duty we ended up going out a couple days later and have been together ever since we got engaged in 2021 married in 22 and living our life but i'm dead that you knew that it was his license plate yeah i still haven't memorized did you say that you saw his license plate or you just like i see your car yeah but he knew more about me than i knew about him and like now knowing who he is and like what his profession is i understand why he was so guarded and very um

He just works for government-level stuff, and he just never really talked about it. And, like, we have even safety plans in place in case, like, things happen and stuff along those lines. But back then, I was just like, yeah, I memorized your life. I've always been me, though. Like, I don't care. Yeah, I love that. I'm always like, I don't care. I'm sure I stalk you. I don't care if that's what you think. Were you on social media when you guys got together? Yes. So I had just...

when we fully, fully started dating, I had just lost my job. Um, and then cause like COVID had just started. And so that was another really big piece in our relationship is as soon as we started dating, we were locked down. Like we just basically were together 24 seven. And as you know, the George Floyd murder happened and, um,

So that was at the time of like, not only were you on lockdown from COVID, you also had the, were you in Minnesota at the time? - Yeah, I was in St. Louis Park. - Okay, we had curfews and all that stuff. It was just wild. So we hunkered down in his apartment and we just really, at those times that it was either like made or broke people. And it was just one of those moments where we really just learned how to be each other's friends without anything other than just like each other.

And okay, so I had started TikTok at that time just for like shits and gigs, you know, nothing else going on in life. But I also knew his profession. So I was like, I hid TikTok from him for a very long time. I can't believe he married me some days. Wait, when you guys were like living together too?

we hadn't technically like we weren't in the same like we were always together yes but no we weren't on the same lease at this point but no yeah I was like on TikTok I had had like 75,000 followers at the time and no I lied 60 because that was the day my uncle was like congrats on 60,000 followers and I was like oh shit I literally was like uh-oh and right away Rafael was like on what because he followed me on Instagram and I was like he

So I came clean and then, yeah, it's just, he's just had to been open about it. It was very interesting. He actually wanted to go at that time. Another reason that I was kind of keeping a hush hush is because we just started dating. I didn't know if it was serious and I love social media, but he also wanted to go federal. So he was actually interviewing for the FBI, got into the FBI and they were like,

Pretty much in the FBI, you're like owned by them for quite some time. I think it's about five years where they send you to a random state. You basically can't be in a state where you know anybody just because they want you to basically be very unbiased. Could you go with him?

I could have, but I would have to give up all my social medias. Yes. So that was also another reason where I was like, okay, if he's doing this, then I really do need to figure this out. But ended up, we talked and he was just like, they, they, um, they tell you not to have children. They, they like younger single guys at that level, um, because there's so many restrictions. So it was a very interesting time in life, but yes, I was on social media. I had just started. Wait, that's crazy. Yeah. I'm just spewing it all to you. I should have taken my ADHD meds when I came here.

i'm so glad that like that's just i can't imagine him realizing that like thank god your a friend didn't just send like a video of you to him i don't know what i would have done and what's funny is that was my first tick tock account that actually got banned still to this day i have no idea why like i never got any like never told anything i don't know so this is now my second page but he's the most supportive of it and everything and he's always like

When people are like, oh my God, you're so mean to him. I'm like nine times out of 10. He was like, redo that. It wasn't mean enough. Like people aren't going to think that's funny. I was like, whatever. Also your husband and wife, you're not mean to him. It's like couple banter. I've never once been like, Catherine's being mean to him. It's so funny. A lot of people, there's people who will like go find his Instagram and DM him and be like, you need to divorce her, bro. What? Yeah. I mean, people think that like,

Pete's being held against his own will. Please don't call Paw Patrol. He is fine. I feed him on the weekdays. I'm like, he's fine. And also, people need to remember...

things are heightened on social media. We are trying to entertain people. And you think that they don't have permission. Like, I have to ask Pete if it's okay for him to be in a video. Same, still. Yeah. I still, to this day, I'm like, are you okay being in this? Now it's gotten a little bit more like, just shut up. Go brush your hair. We're doing this. But like, nine out of ten times, if you see a video with Pete and I, it's Pete's idea. He's like, let's make a TikTok time. I'm like...

Thank you. Yes. People think I have you like handcuffed under the table. And I'm like, if you don't do this, you're staying in your room tonight. I tell everybody, I'm like, you guys remember, I will post a photo. He got on his knee. I know it's crazy. Right? I know it's crazy. I know. People are actually insane. And it's like, you know, it's okay to have a healthy, healthy relationship and for your partner to support you being on social media. I also think too, it's like every relationship is so different. And exactly what you said as creators,

I'm not, we're not like a skit based couple. Yeah. But there are times where I'll like go to tell a story and he did something dumb. So I'm going to tell the story and I'll glitch or I'll stutter. And so I'll redo it and he'll be like, Hey, add like a little bit more emphasis on that line. Because it's like, that really did happen. And nine, like nine out of 10 of my videos are supposed to be relatable videos. Like one is like falsified and it's just to be like funny or something, but I'm just like, like I posted it anyways.

But I'm just like he knows he gets it and he also watches my stuff. So he knows what does well. He knows what people relate to. And people are always nine times out of ten. Everyone's in the comments like hyping me up and they're like, Rafi, get it together. Yeah. There's always that one though. Oh, yeah. I know Pete's always like giving me input and I'll be like, hey, does this text look good? Is this funny? Or like, what should I say for this? People just don't get it. Yeah. They're crazy. Try also having the interracial battle too. Yeah. How has that been? Yeah.

It's hard online. Like for him and I, we've never batted an eye. We've never had problems in our family or our friends or anything along those lines. But online, you just have to be a little bit more conscientious because a joke is

to a million people, there's always that one that's going to like tear you apart. And so those are like the ones like, have you, the one right now that's like, we in the club, we all fam. Yeah. That one's like, it's a hit or miss because it's like on my page, it might not be as funny as if it's on someone else's page. So stuff along those lines, we'll have to just

he'll be like, hey, let's just like think that one fully through. Yeah. And he's normally okay with anything and everything, but just even having like that little comment at the end, like, are you racist? Like anyone could take that a totally different way. And there's a whole Reddit thread about how I'm the most racist person ever. And yeah, it's just crazy. And I'm just like, all because of one trend. That's actually what started it all.

the whole racist thing is in 2020 or 2021 ish. Do you remember the trend is like, this is my boyfriend. I got him at target. He comes with his own like backpack. Yes. So I did that for Raphael. Didn't think anything out of it. And at the time it was still just kind of starting out. And I was like, this is my boyfriend and he's seven years older than me. So I said, I got him on clearance because he's, because he's seasoned. Yeah. Because the meaning behind seasoned is like,

older like a seasoned chicken like it's ready to go yeah well i'm racist because seasoned is because he was black and he was on clearance because and i was showing him like a slave and i was like wait what and i had said like he comes with his own coloring book because of his tattoos but people took that as because he was black and i was like wait where did this just go left i ended up deleting the video but yeah if you google my name it's still out there on like a like a big um

like a, what is it called? Not a magazine, but it basically like a digital magazine picked it up. And there was a couple of us girls that just got ripped to shreds. And it was just like, that's insane too, because I would imagine that Raphael knew what you were posting and was like, he was standing there for it. Literally stood there like, yeah,

And he probably reviewed it and was like, no, I'm okay with this. Because we just never once even thought. And then when people were saying that, I was like, okay, I could see how this could look bad. Like, I took it down. But that was, like, the one really big thing where I was like, I swallowed that. Where I was like, okay, I could see how that was being perceived and I apologized. But that's never once been a thing. But now it's always, like, that's still a thing. Or Raphael's had to respond to comments, too, of, like, people will be like, why'd you marry a black man? Like, on my stuff. I'm like, this is so weird.

People are disgusting. It's so weird. Like, it's 2024. Are we going to ever wake up? Literally. It's weird. At least it makes you guys a stronger couple. Yeah. And I feel like you guys have been through it all. Yeah. Where it's like nothing can break you. Mm-hmm. Which I love. And we just, like, in general, my mom's kind of raised me as everyone's, we're all human too. That's where human too even came from. Yeah.

Obviously we've all got differences, but Rafa and I never even like see. I think the only thing is like when something happens in his family versus my family or like the way I talk to my mom, like I call my mom by her name or like my dad always called him by his name. I'd be like, Bill, come here. Yeah. I noticed that. I don't know why it's just our family's culture, but like he's had to explain, like, you can't do that. Like with my family, like they're just not, it's just not the culture.

So I think that's been like the hardest quote unquote, but I think that's any family, not necessarily just interracial, but yeah. Um, that's really been the only thing other than that. We just see each other as that's my husband. He's just a big fellow. Wait, I forgot. How long have you been together? Almost five years. Okay. And you got married in Minneapolis. Yeah. Where'd you guys get married?

Do you know Dinkytown? Yes. There's like an industrial district back there that we got married in. Pretty. Yeah. I love that. I just love that. Like everything that you're saying, I'm like, I actually know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. Oh my God. And I'm literally so obsessed with your ring. Thank you. Can I see it? I designed her myself. I know. I remember one of your videos that came up. So I'm like, my boyfriend and I are in the process of engagement rings. Do you know where it's going? No.

I don't know where, but he wants to, I want to do lab grown. Okay. I saw this topic. Yeah. Mine's a lab here. Sorry. It took me a minute to get it off. So I, you are one of the creators that inspired me to look into lab grown. Honored. As you should. Like, yeah.

This is literally my dream ring. She's a little gal. Pete, if you're watching, this is the exact ring. I'm not kidding you. Okay, so I got it through Karama Collective. So my brother-in-law is a jeweler. Okay. I highly recommend. He's like one of the best price points on the market. I'm not just saying that because he's my brother-in-law, but...

So I also custom did it. So it's got a W holding up the diamond for our last name. Oh, I love that. Are you legally Washington? Legally, yes. Okay. Yep. And ultimately, so like Ebbs actually isn't my last name. I have like it's a portion of my last name, but because of the drama...

One, I've always just been Catherine Epps on Instagram ever since middle school and Instagram came out. But just like the drama, I just wanted to give my family that privacy. But yeah, for a while, like my whole my brothers were our full legal last name online. And I was like, hey, can you guys like change it because people can find you quickly. But no, legally, it's Washington.

Anyways, I'm a huge advocate for lab because Eli, my brother-in-law, he was the one that taught me everything. He was like an IVF baby is still an eye. Like it's still a real baby. Yes. It's just where it is made. And ethically, depending on where you get your diamonds, like, and not only that, but they're literally the exact same. Is it called composition? I don't know. Like they're the exact same. It's just one was made in a lab versus mind, but the price point I'm like, that's what gets me. I cannot believe this ring. If it were real would have been estimated about $120,000.

Isn't that insane? So that's something that like broke my brain. So I, I saw your video when you posted it, which was a while back. Yeah. And that was when I was like really starting to think about like getting engaged. And I remember before your video, I never considered lab grown. Like, I'm not kidding. You really persuaded me on changing. And then I talked to my best friend about it, who's also from Minnesota. And she was like, yes, this is what I'm talking about. Like lab grown is the way to go because I didn't understand the price difference between the two. It's,

It's crazy. I went into Brilliant Earth with Pete to look at rings, and we aren't going to go with Brilliant Earth because their price points. You still want to try them on, yeah. Yeah, but we wanted to try them on and learn about them, and she was telling us the price points between the carrots, and my mind was truly blown. It was, yeah, like $10,000 versus...

50, 60, $70,000. Cause I'm like, I want a big ring. Yeah. But I don't want to break the bank. Yeah. No, this, no, I'll send you his link. And I'm again, I'm like, I say it to anybody and everyone though. Listen, no one has ever come up to me. I was like, is that a real diamond? Right. And I would be like,

who cares? Like, did you really buy it? Like, and not only that, um, with lab, you get to pick more like your cut and your clarity is cleaner sometimes for the price point that you're also getting it at. So I'm a huge, huge, huge advocate. I also didn't realize why, cause like I was looking at like oval square and radiant and I was so confused why like

a three carat radiant was the same cost of maybe like a one or two carat square um so I like was educated on that because like the width at the bottom is so much heavier yeah so that really helped me decide like oh I definitely want a radiant because you can get a bigger carat at the same price as like maybe a square or a round or something absolutely actually was really interesting I will say the one thing I wish I'm like giving lessons here the one thing I wish so like I

You can tell my carrot weight is a lot underneath. Like a lot of it sits underneath. One downside to that, I catch on everything. Oh my God. So I could have gotten a smaller carrot weight that sat less depth, but longer, and it would have looked the same.

But it would have sat a little lower, and it would have actually almost looked bigger. OK. So instead of getting carat weight under here, I could have gotten less depth and gone longer. So it would have looked like a bigger ring, and I wouldn't catch on everything. I do like how yours is risen, though. I love it too. Yeah. But you'll just have to get used to-- I mean, it's a major first-world problem, but you'll just have to get used to tucking your pockets in, or it'll catch on stuff. I've gotten used to it.

But yeah, I mean, I love it. She's beautiful. She's beautiful. She's beautiful. And I love that you designed your stack too. Yes. I don't know. I was a Pinterest girly in probably like eighth grade and I was like, yeah, I want a stack. Oh yeah. And I do advise, I say this all the time too. If you are a stack girly, get cheap rings. Yeah. And like get some on Amazon, like pick out your stack. For the first while I had a

canal street cartier because i wanted the look of a cigar band but i didn't want to buy a cigar band so i just got one for like 25 bucks on canal street and wore that for a while and i was like okay yeah i do love the cigar band so then i upgraded my stack a little bit but

Yeah, I love it. I really love like your thought process with that because I just like don't understand people who shame people who have lap grown or even like moissanites. It's like just let people have whatever they want in their fingers. Who cares? Like this girl, a girl I follow was talking about her travel diamond that she got from Amazon and she's like,

I actually like it more than my future ring. People say that all the time. They're like, I kept it. I'm like, good for you. She's like, I wear it like four times a week. And I'm like, good for you. It's like whatever's on your finger only is between you and your husband. Yeah. And I just hate when people are like,

That's not a real diamond. Okay. Well, it's like it actually is. It's just that mind. Or even like the size. I've had girlfriends where like they'll see someone else. Like I feel like the trend now, not even necessarily the trend, but again, like you said, you can get more ring for less money now. So why would people not for the same price get a bigger ring? Right.

But I feel like there's so many women out there with like smaller carat weights or like daintier rings that are feeling like in comparison and like, I need a bigger ring. And it's like, no, no, it's not about that. Everyone's got different tastes. We've got different everything. So it's like, if you like your ring, keep a ring. Yeah. If you want to upgrade it.

get a lab diamond. Right? I don't know. Did you, I think you mentioned that you designed it, but like, did you and Raphael design it together? Like, did you know what you were getting? Yes. Okay. Um, so my first question to him when we were like talking engagement, cause he was like, I'm, I need to make sure that you're not going to say no. And I was like, well, I'm not saying no, but I asked, I was like, do we have an heirloom that I need to be considerate of or

Or do you have something in mind that you want? And he said no to both. And I was like, okay, well, since it is something that I have to wear every single day for the rest of my life and it's a heftier price point, am I able to pick it? And he was like, absolutely. And I feel like going in that way versus being like, no, I don't trust your taste or I want to pick it or whatever. It gave the man a little bit more security of like, she's just asking because she cares. And I'm like, hee hee.

no, literally I, Pete and I talked about this on an episode of Mean Girl that just came out and people were like, what do you mean you're letting her have a say on what ring you get her? That's crazy. And granted, a lot of these comments were from men. Yeah. But I'm like, Pete and I had this conversation because he was like, I want you to love what's on your finger and I want,

like I want to be able to show it off and know that you love it. Yeah. The last thing I want is to get you something and then you hate it where all these men are like, if you're buying it, only you should have say. It's like, what? That's like letting your wife go out and just buy your next house. Yeah. You have to live there for the next 20 years and you don't get a say. Like that's wild. You just got to trust her and it's like,

Yeah, you would hope that your partner would know you enough to pick something that you like, but that's just not necessarily the case for everybody. Yeah, like you want to be so proud of it, but I feel like you can be more proud of it if you know your wife or your future wife is going to absolutely love what's on her finger. Yeah, I'm the first person to be like, I did a great job. You did do a great job. People are like, you did so good. I was like, no, I did so good. You're like, no, I designed the whole thing actually. You didn't know when the engagement was going to happen though, right? No, that completely threw me off.

So my mom was living in a, all of our parents live in different states. His mom's in California. My mom was in Wisconsin. My dad and us were in Minnesota. His dad's in Orlando. So I was like, he had asked me to go for lunch at the first place that he told me he loved me. And right away I was like, okay, today's the day.

And which, mind you, I had known he had the ring. That was the thing that threw me off. I was like, okay, I know it's coming. He asked me to go to lunch that day. But you knew or you did not know he had the ring? I knew he had the ring. And so when he asked me to go to that place for lunch, it's called Holman's Table. It's on the St. Paul Airstrip in St. Paul. I have been there. Yeah. Yes, I went there with my parents. So he had. Beautiful place. Yeah, literally. Love it. That was the first place he told me he loved me. And so I was like, okay, gig's up. It's today. But then my dad was like, can I go to lunch with you?

Like with you guys and I was like, okay today's not the day because there's no way he would propose to me In front of my dad and stepmom, but not our moms at minimum so then we get to the restaurant and

his mom and sister and my mom walk in while he was in the bathroom. I was like, you idiot. Like this gave it away, but it was supposed to be, it was during the Canadian wildfires. Okay. So a helicopter was supposed to like drive it down or fly it down and like be out on the runway. But we ended up sitting, sitting inside because of the fires and they weren't able to like deliver it. So he had it in a gum wrapper in his pocket. Shut up. I swear to God. That ring was in a gum wrapper. And it, okay. Still to this day, I never said yes.

he like got down on one knee mind you were my two rules that i had to have for an engagement which women if you're listening give it up just do whatever i said not in a restaurant that was my first rule and have a photographer neither of which happened and i'm like sitting here in the corner like everyone in the restaurant staring at us and i said can you please get up because he was on his knee and then i was like and then he started to like hug me and he like grabbed my face i said please stop touching me

And then his mom was like, "So did you say yes?" I went like this and I sat back down in my seat. I was so uncomfortable. 'Cause you know yourself, and you're like, that public was so uncomfortable. I was like, "No, absolutely not." And then I made him go out on the runway to like stage an Instapick. So if you see the Instapick, that's fake.

no I feel that 100% I told Pete I was like we got to be alone because I will feel sick to my stomach and I probably would do the same thing where I'd be like it'd be rushed I'd be like just get over with because I'm anxiety social anxiety to it too much yeah it took over right away I actually still to this day for a very long time I was actually very upset about it because I'm like that's such bullshit like that was my one engagement because I'm not planning on doing this again so I'm like that is so bogus and then um

we actually like kind of had a spat over like when our wedding took place he wanted to wait longer just because money it's a it's very expensive and it happened to be that memorial day weekend was the time that like a lot of his nieces and nephews could travel because school had just gotten out so we ended up getting married then and thank god we did because my dad passed just a few months later and um i'm the only girl so i was like okay

I used to have so much anger around actual anger. Like I was annoyed. I was very frustrated. And now I'm like, God knew, God knew my dad got to watch his only daughter get engaged and married. So I'm like, it is what it is. So I just tell people all the time, just who cares? Who cares at the end of the day, have the wedding that you want. Don't plan a wedding for your mom. Don't plan a wedding for your aunt Susie. Like don't plan an engagement for everyone else. Do it for yourselves. And that's the best advice that I can give. Yeah. I have been learning that. I don't know.

I don't have a lot of friends that have been married, but I'm going to get to the point where they're going to be getting engaged and married soon. And that's something that I'm learning with the few weddings is like, I've seen people do weddings for other people and they're miserable. And then I've seen the few that have done weddings just for themselves and,

they maybe have a little bit of an angrier family, but they are so fricking happy at the end of the day. Yeah. So it's like, even for me one day, it's like my wedding is going to be exactly what Pete and I want. And I don't care about anyone else. Yeah. And there's always going to have to be that. Raphael wanted to elope just us or like our core friends. And I was like, I'm the oldest girl on my dad's side of the family and the first to be married. He's the youngest and the first to be married on his side of the family. So in my eyes, I was like, we can't elope. We have to give our parents a wedding. Like,

As long as you guys compromise, that's the best. But I let my stepmom take over a lot of stuff. And there was just a lot where I was doing for other people. And it ended up just being like, I could have spent the same amount of money and had a gorgeous wedding, just our core friends and family. And we could have had the best of both worlds, but we didn't. And it is what it is. But yeah, I love that. Yeah. I'm excited for you. Thank you. I'm excited too. It's so exciting. You're just like everywhere you go, you're like, hey, no.

I know. I literally, I'm like, should I do that trend on TikTok where it's like how many manicures in tilt? Yes. You should. I'm being very patient. You should. I'm being very patient. He's probably already got one and you just don't even know it. I know. I don't know what he has up his sleeve. All I know is he said he's going to make it where I have no idea it's coming. Yeah. That's the best. Yeah. I don't want to know what's coming. My only rule is like,

I don't care if our family and friends are around, but, like, when you actually ask, I need it to be just you and I. Yeah. Like, take me aside. Yeah. Because I will crack. Also, when you know it's coming, I've had a girlfriend who knew the ring was there, and so every date that came for the next few months, she would... The date would come and go, and she was pissed. Like, every date was, like, quote-unquote shit, and she was, like... And I kept telling her, I'm like...

stop ruining all these dates. Like those are still fun times to be dating and like having fun. And, and then when it came, she was like, you were so right. I shouldn't have stressed it. I'm like, ended up being not even on a date. You literally proposed in their house. So I'm like, you're an idiot. You just ruined all those moments. But, um, do you want to do a listener question? Yeah. Okay. So this one I picked because this girl's from the Midwest. So it's like, okay, we can relate. Okay. So this is the listener question.

I'm a fellow Midwest girl. I just saw your post about friendship breakups and it really hit home. It's something I've been struggling with myself. My friend and I have been close since fifth grade. We grew up in a small, very clicky town. Over the years, we've had our up and downs, but always found our way back to each other.

For the past three years, she's been dating a guy. At first, he seemed great. They were in love, which is all I could ask for for her. But recently, now that he's gotten very comfortable around my husband and I, he has started giving unsolicited advice and pointing out things that we're doing wrong in life. His excuse is that he says that his, or sorry, he excuses this by saying he has his own issues he's working through. A few weeks ago, we hosted a dinner party and he disrespected us in our own home by asking questions about friends behind their back.

This was the last straw for me. I decided to accept whatever consequences came with it and told her what happened, making it clear that he was no longer welcome in my home. This led to me getting the silent treatment and ultimately the end of our friendship. During the conversation, she flipped it around to me saying I wasn't a good friend because of how I viewed her. She's private and doesn't let many people in on what's going on in her life. What's your opinion? Is this friendship worth working on or should I accept it for what it is and just move on?

I hate friendship breakups. I know me too. And I feel the very small clicky town because I was from like a small town where you were friends with people for a long time because of proximity and because you grew up with them, not because they were good for you in your life. See, that's where I'm always like a friend that close for that long. That's not a real friend if they're just like peace out bye. Right. But I also am on the other girl's side of like if she's in a toxic relationship, she's

They... The guys will do that. Where, like, the toxic person in the relationship will try to get everyone away from her so he can have the control. So it's hard because it's like, do you be there for that friend knowing that she's probably being manipulated behind the scenes? I don't know. Yeah, because it sounds like...

The problems are coming from just the guy. Yeah. And it sucks because if she chooses this man long term, she's unfortunately probably lose a lot of friends along the way. But yeah, if you also don't want to be that friend that just like deserts her because if they're in a toxic relationship, she needs you more than you realize. But she just like doesn't see how much she needs you at that time.

So I had something similar where someone was with a very toxic person and it had gotten to the point where I was like, I physically can't be your friend. Watching the abuse, the manipulation, and then watching the cycle, it's hurting me as your friend. And it's almost like I had had another friend explain it as like, if they're going to drive their own car into a wall, you have to choose, are you going to sit in the passenger seat? Like, can they survive this? I don't know. Who knows, you know? And walking away from that friend,

they that relationship ended part like ended in parted ways so I'm like if I would have continued to encourage and be friends and be in that friendship would the relationship have continued or was it walking away from that friend where they were like oh damn maybe I should make some other choices because I am going to lose everybody I don't know I think if you feel that it's worth fighting for maybe like give some time feel it out um

Maybe try to have just a one-on-one relationship until... Like, go get your nails done. Go for coffee. Like, do things without the men. But then you also... If you're not inviting her boyfriend, then your husband can't be around. Like, that's something I'm pretty big on of, like, if I wanted a relationship with just a girlfriend, it's very hypocritical for me to still bring my husband. Yeah. It's hard, though, because you got to... And also, if that friend is just to drop you and pick the guy, it's like, just wait it out. You never know. Yeah. No, I actually really like what you said. I think that she can maybe...

change the type of friendship they have and don't do a couple things maybe only hang out with her even in like groups of girls until things get settled but I'm just like I'm not a big believer of when you break up with a friend it just being like a nasty breakup you never speak again like I'm more of maybe just do like a soft fizzle until things get figured out I don't think there ever needs to be like so much hatred between two people so hopefully maybe she just takes time she can

the other friend can figure it out but this is a really tough situation yeah friendship breakups I feel like are harder than boy breakups they're so hard so I feel for her um okay so before we wrap we always do wrecks okay so what's your wreck of the week wreck of the week I'm gonna go midwest because we've been midwest vibes midwest one too really yeah funny okay so midwest wise I always get asked like where in Minneapolis to go where in St. Paul to go

So I'm going to give some Midwestern recommendations for the Twin Cities. Oh, I love that. I love Red Rabbit.

And Red Cow. Red Rabbit is my go-to. Red Cow is phenomenal, too. Red Rabbit's actually my favorite restaurant in Minneapolis. It is so unbelievably good. Their pizza and charcuterie board, and they have the best wine. And the best espresso martinis. Yes. And the best cheese curd, garlic bread, not. Have you had those? The garlic bread cheese curds? Cheese curds are not a thing out here. And I made Pete try. He's celiac, but I made him try cheese curds for the first time, like, when he was in Minnesota a couple months ago.

So I had never heard of cheese curds until I moved to Minnesota. Yeah, they're like not a thing anywhere else. Yeah, no. Oh my God, and what are they in Red Rabbit? They're garlic bread cheese curds. They are so good. When you go back, you have to try them. I will. And then what was my other one that I love up there? Handsome Hog has the best espresso martinis. Okay, I've not been there yet. Handsome Hog, actually, they were so good. My dad and I used to go there all the time. And then when he passed, they made espresso martini batches for his funeral. And now their espresso martini is named for Bill.

Yeah. It's very funny. It's like a funny small world story. But yeah. And they actually are the best. So I'm like, that's why I hype them. Not just because they're named after my dad. But... And then what else is like another really fun thing to do up in Minnesota? Obviously, the Mall of America, I say, is actually worth it. Especially now living in Texas. We have sales tax. So I was like, oh, it's almost worth the flight to go back. I always take my friends there. Especially out-of-state friends. Because they're like, we can go shopping and get...

So like such good discounts. Yeah, absolutely. And then lastly is I feel like everyone, even like moving to Minneapolis, Minneapolis is kind of far from Stillwater. So not a lot of people go out to Stillwater. I love Stillwater. So beautiful. I love those recs. Those are good ones. So I got some Midwest ones for you. That's good. So mine is, are you a reader at all? Love. Have you read any of Abby Jimenez? Yeah, Jimenez. Yes. Is that how you pronounce it? Yes. Just for the summer is like it engrossed me for like four hours. I finished in four hours. Okay.

Okay. I am reading her first book, The Part of Your World. Okay. So I apparently read it out of order. I didn't know there was a series until I posted on Instagram and everyone was like, this is part of a series. Yeah. Just for the Summer is so unbelievably good. It literally got me hooked on her and now I've got to read her other ones. Okay. So I'm starting with Part of Your World and then I'll do Just for the Summer. But once I found out she was from Minneapolis, I was like, I'm sold. Yeah. I love that. And it's funny that the... Okay. So in Just for the Summer, they talk about...

that's like all over the Twin Cities. Okay. Granted, it's different in the book, but you know the Chris Lindahl? Yes. It's based off of that. That's funny. Yeah. I heard she talks about Minneapolis locations throughout her books, which...

It's so fun when you can picture it. Yes. That's why I like movies. But then when I got into books, I felt like I liked it because I could make my own imagination run wild. But it is also kind of nice to know the areas and the towns and such. Yeah. I love that. So yeah, that's my rec. Are you part of Book of the Month? I'm not. So Book of the Month is like... I've actually had podcast ads for it. That's how I found out about them. They sponsored our podcast. And...

So it's basically like you sign up for it. It's a subscription, but they come directly to your door. But they have like hundreds of readers that literally pick the top 30 books of the month and then you can choose from them. I don't think it's 30 books. I think it's like 15 or 10 or something. Oh, but yeah, it's like a monthly subscription and you just pick like the but no, there's no bad read in there. Every single thing I've gotten from them has been so good. And the other like ADHD kind of OCD thing that I have is all the books are the exact same size.

Okay. So that's like a really big deal because I'm like, they're all hardcover. Anyways, I really like them. Okay, so I was going to ask if they're physical or can you do audio? They're physical? I don't know because I don't really do audio. I'm actually a physical girly and I don't really care for the Kindle or anything. Yeah. I really need the book. So that's why I like them and recommend them to other people because I know that the Kindles are cool and like you can get unlimited books for basically cheap. Yeah. Very cheap, but I'm just not a Kindle girl. So what's the book you're reading right now? I just finished...

The Paradise Problem, another book of the month one. Very good. And now I'm on The Unhoneymooners by that same author. Okay. Have you read those? I have not, but I've seen the cover of The Unhoneymooners before. Okay. It's very popular. I think Paradise Problem was so much better though, so far. I can't get, The Unhoneymooners, I'm like trying to get into. It's another St. Paul based one. What's the author's name? Chris.

Christina Lauren. Oh, she's from St. Paul? I don't know if she's from there, but I know the Unhoneymooners is based out of St. Paul. Okay. Love that. And then I'm doing Part of Your World. I love books. I know. I'm like, let's talk about books. I was saying that the other day. I had a brand dinner in Austin, actually, and we were literally talking about our pets and our books that everyone was reading. I was like, when did I get this? I could talk about dogs and books all day long. All day long. I'm sitting here like, here's my dog. People are like, okay.

I love that. Well, Catherine, thank you so much for being on Mean Girl Pod. Before we go, where can everyone find you?

everywhere I don't shut up Instagram TikTok um I do have a podcast but I'm kind of quieting out of that right now but there's a bunch of episodes especially if you need something to relate to um I talk about anything and everything on all my platforms so it's just Catherine Ebbs EBS E as in Edward B as in boy I love that everyone always thinks it's a B but it's not interesting no she's a she's a great follow I love your I love your platform thank you I love that you just tell everything it's

I'm like, I need this today. It's got me in a lot of trouble. It's got me in a lot of trouble.

But it's so great. But it's also got me to a lot of experiences. So yes, here we are. So thank you for having me. Of course. I'm excited. Okay, you guys, we will see you next Monday. Bye. This episode is sponsored by Anytime Fitness. As we're entering the winter months, it's all about staying focused on your goals, how you move, what you put in your body, and how you recover from the stresses of life. And Anytime Fitness has the coaching tools, technology, and space to help you with all of that.

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