Ep. 77: Bo Nickal - The Wrestler, The Fighter, The Hunter
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Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. Today I'm joined by Bo Nickel. He's a well-known name in the realms of wrestling, mixed martial arts, and more and more into hunting as time goes on. He's renowned for his exceptional prowess on the wrestling mat. He's carved a legacy as one of the most decorated collegiate wrestlers in recent history, boasting three NCAA National Championships, numerous accolades during his tenure at Penn State University, and a number of other titles.

But recently he's been transitioning from what would be considered a prestigious wrestling career. And he's transitioning into that fast paced world of MMA.

Nichols' journey continues as he seeks to make his mark in the octagon. He's drawing upon his athleticism, strategic mindset, and competitive spirit in this new arena. Beyond the compliance of wrestling and MMA arena, he's also passionate. It's a new passion for the outdoors. And he's kind of propelled into the world of hunting, which we've seen other UFC stars do. And it seems like there's a pretty good parallel between those.

where he's using, you know, applying his dedication, focus, and skill to pursue wild games. So welcome to the show, Bo.

yeah i appreciate you having me on yeah yeah um a little background on me and wrestling so i was a basketball guy right and so we right we were always different but my kid um it was offered at different seasons so my kid was able to start wrestling as like a first grader so i was i was a guy like i coach all my other kids sports whether it's football basketball baseball and his it was the first sport i ever just kind of sat up and watched like

And then you realize what the coach is like. All right, I can yell, get on your toes, like when you're getting ready to – you know, like I was that guy. Like that's my level of wrestling. I've become –

Um, but I've always been a student of, of the game. And so that's actually, you know, three or four years ago, um, you know, watching YouTube, like, Oh, there's a guy named Bo nickel and, and you know, these guys at Penn state that are dominant and learned about Sanderson. Cause I always wanted to just know more, you know, it's like, and then we're getting taught all of these moves and practice from my kids are, and then you watch you guys wrestle and you guys do use moves, but it's a, it's almost like it,

turns into a different sport. Like you can't get away with a head and arm anymore. You can't get away. And so that's, I'm, I'm exposing myself to my understanding of wrestling, but, uh, I was a basketball player to, to, um, yeah, it's a great sport. You know, I, uh, I feel like, so my, my granddad was a wrestler and a wrestling coach. And so it was my dad. And so that's kind of how I got into it right away. But, uh, yeah,

I played all sports growing up. My mom played college basketball and stuff. I played football and did baseball and track and all that type of thing. Wrestling always, for me, was just what I identified with the most and I felt the most passionate about.

But yeah, that's cool that your son's into it. It's a great sport. It doesn't even matter if you wrestle for your whole life or wrestle in college or anything like that. Just experiencing it, I think, is a really good thing. Yeah, it's different, you know, because everything I did was a team sport. And, you know, it's...

everybody talks about this, like wrestling, it's you and yourself out there at that point. And it does it. You can't depend on anybody. You can't hide behind four other players or 10 other players or whatever sport you're playing. Like it's, it's you and nobody else. And it forces you to, to kind of own that. And I like that about wrestling, you know, and I think in today's world, we don't have enough grit in a lot of what we do. And so it's like, if nothing else, I like that word grit. It's like teaching you to grind it out, whether you win or lose, like

you better leave it all out there. A hundred percent. Yeah. I feel like, you know, and a lot of things in life, you get out of it, what you put into it, but it's even, you know, more so in wrestling just because like you said, it's only you out there. And at the end of the day,

Like it's, it's, it's just up to you, you know, win or lose. It's going to be determined by who scores the most points in the match at that point. It doesn't matter, you know, what your coach says or what your practice partners or anything like that. But, you know, I think that for me, that definitely instilled a lot of, you know, character and different things into, you know, how I play.

try to carry myself. And, but also, you know, I was really appreciative that I did team sports as well because that social component is, it's, you know, you see some guys that maybe just wrestled their whole life and they don't quite get that. They don't understand what it's like to, to, you know, work with another person. And, uh, you know, so I think both are important. Um, but yeah, I mean, and they both, they both teach, you know, different lessons that are, that are positive. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. No, I, I'm glad he's into it now, unfortunately. And you, you, UFC and wrestlers probably laugh that, you know, these sports WIA, which is like our Washington inter, they consider basketball a contact sport. And so now all these kids can do both up until like high school. And now they've got to make a decision. So we'll, we'll see whether my boy wants to continue wrestling or playing basketball. But like you said, regardless, it was great life lessons for the last six or seven years. And I think it's,

It's good. And it's weird.

And I'm a basketball guy. Like you watch basketball players and like, I cringe when you see like guys who've been hollering and acting like an idiot. And it's like, at least most wrestlers, there are a few bad apple, but like most wrestlers carry themselves different, which I like that like respect side and more respect for the sports and their opponents than maybe some of the sports that I played carry themselves with nowadays. So I do like that. Like it, it seems like most wrestlers carry a different level of respect than, than some other athletes. Yeah.

Yeah, I think so. You know, I think when you just have to go through what wrestlers have to go through, you know, the, the training and the difficulty and just, you know, just one practice, it's like so tough to even just get through a practice sometimes. And, uh, I think that you just kind of automatically have a certain level of respect for your opponents. And in addition to the fact that that's just kind of part of the culture, uh, it's just, you know, respect each other, appreciate each other, you know, good

good example. I was at the Arnold classic, um, for, um, I was doing an appearance at that fitness expo and it was in Columbus, Ohio. And a guy walks up to me, um, he's like, Bo. And I turn and look and it's this kid calling more who I wrestled him, um, the NCAA season, the NCAA finals. And like,

we wrestled a few times my senior year and some might've considered us kind of like rivals and stuff like that. We don't beat against each other, but it comes right out to me. Hey man, how you doing? Like just, you know, really friendly and stuff. And so that's just the culture, you know, you just kind of have that bond with people. Even if you compete against them, you just have that connection. So it's pretty, it's pretty cool for sure. Yeah.

That that's awesome. I was going to ask you, I seen you at the Arnold, um, the past week and I didn't know if you were there in the arm wrestling competition or the fitness modeling, which, which you went there. Oh man. No, you know, the only, the one that I wanted to do. So they got everything there. First off, they have an octagon there too now, right? It's insane. There's so many things. I mean, they do.

Um, obviously everybody knows it for the bodybuilding competition, but there's, there's powerlifting, Olympic lifting, there's a jujitsu, there's boxing Muay Thai. But the one that I wanted to do that looks pretty crazy is, uh, they have guys dress up in medieval, like armor, like Knights with, with swords and axes and stuff. And they literally fight each other. It's the craziest thing. So I was like, I think I could get down for that. That'd be cool. Uh, yeah.

Yeah, I know. We've seen you were there. Other things going on? New edition of your son around Christmas Ace. Like, are you getting any sleep yet or is that going good or bad? It's going well, actually. You know, I feel pretty fortunate for a lot of reasons. You know, first and foremost, that he's healthy and my wife's healthy. So very grateful that they're in good health. And yeah, as far as sleep, yeah.

You know, he's been pretty good. Last night he was about 11 p.m. to 6. So it's getting more consistent. And, yeah, I'm getting some good sleep. And my wife, you know, I'm really grateful for her. She takes care of him and she does a lot so that I can get good rest and recovery and be at my best for training. So we're figuring it out. Definitely, you know, a big adjustment going from just us to adding a little one. But it's all good things and all fun. Yeah.

Yeah, no, that's awesome. So we're going to jump more into the meat of the podcast. We always start with question and answers either from our social media, some of our other listeners and you, a lot of these are going to be more wrestling questions. A lot of the cutting the distance podcast is more technical hunting. And I really wanted to bring you on, talk about that crossover, like a lot of, you know,

A lot of my, yeah, we can be in the greatest shape, shoot our bow great, but a lot of, you know, good elk hunters, mule deer hunters, it comes down to mental and like staying in the game, which has a great connection with wrestling. But yeah, we're going to, we're going to hit a few Q and a from our listeners. Once again, if you have questions for me or my guests, feel free to email them to us at CTD at Phelps game calls.com or hit us up on social media and we'll do our best to get them in here. So our first question comes from Nate Danzy.

Um, how has the wrestling discipline transferred over into the hunting world and how have you been able to pull and use pieces, um, as you, if you become more into hunting? You know, yeah. I mean, obviously I'm, I'm fairly new to hunting. I've only been hunting a few years, but I see so many correlations and so many things that, uh, you know, just, um, are very similar. I would say that, um, obviously like if you're looking at basic things, just being in good shape helps a lot. You know, I think you already mentioned that, but, um,

Being in good shape, I feel like that's never a concern for me. Anytime we're hiking, packing out, doing whatever, it's like I'm ready to go. So it's literally a non-issue. And so I think that's just very base, like basic stuff, standard stuff. I think in addition to that, if you look at however you hunt, whether it's with a bow or with a rifle, then there's a certain technical aspect to shooting and making a good shot. I feel like...

That comes pretty natural to me because I'm always used to learning techniques. So I watch a ton of film and there's a lot of guys that I am listening to and trying to figure out, you know, what little tips and tricks they use, um,

just for for making good shots and stuff so I think that that that just having trained my whole life and had to learn technique it helps me pick things up a little quicker and then when I when you get into you know those are just like I said the basic things that you know kind of seem pretty standard but I feel like when you get into actual hunting scenarios um it's always going to be different and you never predict it and and wrestling is is also like that right like you get into a match

It's never going to go the way that you drill. Right. So, you know, you might have drilled a double leg takedown 10,000 times, but, you know, you're in a match in a high pressure situation and there might have to be little micro adjustments within that. And so I think that that applies as well. So, you know, anytime that I go in.

into compete, whether that's wrestling or fighting or anytime I go out on to hunt. It's just my mindset is very, I would say, focused, strategic. I feel confident and I feel like

I'm going to do whatever I need to do to make it happen. So, you know, I think that, um, that comes from that wrestling foundation and that base of like, I never really feel, I never really get too up or too down. It's just very, very even keel. And you know, whatever the scenario is, I feel like I can kind of,

focus on what I need to do rather than letting the moment get bigger than me. Right. Like you see, you see a massive bowl coming at you screaming in your face. Like it's really easy to like lose your cool. And then the same thing as, you know, wrestling and NCAA finals or a state championship match, you know, it's, it's, it's easy. But since I have that experience and I know how I'm going to respond, how my body's going to feel, how I'm going to react, I feel like it really applies in those scenarios. So, you know, then it goes back to,

all right, put myself in the best position I can to now, um, in hunting, make a good shot and hopefully, you know, um, be able to kill that animal quickly and as ethically as I, as I can. So I just folk, I'm able to be in these high pressure scenarios and just focus on the technique, focus on the discipline and be calm and

And then I think that that's what has helped me. I've had a decent amount of success fairly quickly. Yeah. And all those things, you know, apply and translate. Yeah. I think athletes in general have like an easy crossover because, you know, even maybe more so for wrestlers, but like even on the basketball court, football, you come up with a scheme or your group of techniques to beat this guy. And it's very similar in hunting. Like you go through, it's methodical, right?

And, but you need to adapt, right? You were, you know, whether you're, you're planning for a guy that, you know, is a single leg guy or an ankle picker versus he comes out and, you know, he's going for a double or however you'd prepare it. And it's different than you adapt. Right. And we, it's the same. And then one thing that like I struggled with early, I've hunted my entire life, but when I picked up an

the bow and what archery hunting, um, I couldn't keep my cool where it's like you may be doing it later. Like, well, you're like, I've been in a million situations where like the stakes are extremely high and you know, you've been able to, so it's like you have mechanisms built in or you can, you can rely on that experience where your heart rate's been elevated or you've been maybe a little bit frazzled and you know, but you're like, all right, you know, you got mechanisms to calm yourself down and make a good shot. Um, you know, keep your, keep your stuff together. So, um,

Yeah, I see where, you know, wrestling and that discipline can definitely transfer. And we're going to get into it a lot more here in a little bit, like the mental side of like, you know, that's, that's the toughest thing, I think, for a lot of people is like day two or three of a hunt, things aren't going good, like staying with it or talking yourself into it.

And, you know, you've had a lot of great mentors. This is also one of Nate's questions. You've had a lot of great mentors from your parents to your prior high school coaches. But, you know, Cale gets a lot of Cale Sanderson, your coach at Penn State, gets a lot of credit and whatever. But he was curious, like, what was the one thing you learned from Cale that like you use in your day to day life? Like, was there a message like an underlying message that really kind of stuck?

Yeah, for sure. I would say the biggest thing that I learned from Coach Gale, and I learned this very early on when I first got to school, was just to have gratitude. And, you know, I think that's something that for me is the foundation of really everything I do nowadays. And, you know, it translates from

sport to you know family and relationships to business it's it's it's always you know has the I feel like everything I do I try to do it with gratitude and and appreciation and uh you know you can always kind of just I guess want more in your mind or feel like maybe you didn't get a fair shake or whatever it is but um what I found has given me the best results and allowed me to be

the happiest and most content is just to find things that I appreciate, whether they're a big thing like my wife or my son or a small thing. Whenever I think of gratitude, I always think

So we used to have a box in our wrestling room and we'd have little note cards and we'd write something down that we were grateful for and put it in the box. And we did this exercise one time where we kind of read something we were grateful for. And most people put big things, you know, put their family or wrestling at Penn State or your own health, things like that. And my buddy Zane Rutherford, who was, you know, pretty, pretty amazing wrestler in his own right, multiple time national champion, world champion. He wrote down that he was grateful that he had dry socks.

and uh if you ever had wet socks you know like that's not fun but uh i just thought that was so cool and it was so simple but at the same time it was really profound and and so i think that gratitude is something that i've learned you know from coach kale that he really preached that and it's allowed me just to i think get the most out of myself in every area of my life yeah that's awesome it's a great great message to pass on um

So jump into Heather Morales asks, which we're going to get a lot of these. So if they run together, we can, we can pass. So like, how do you, how has your UFC training kind of helped prepare you for hunting? And it's a lot of, it's going to come back to physical, but there may be some, some threads you can pull out that maybe aren't, you know, 100% physical. You know, cause I got to imagine MMA was also something a little new. Yeah. You were in, you know, a wrestling, which is a, you know, a, a,

a style, right? You would call it a style, but you had to be a complete fighter. So you were exposed to, you know, striking or, you know, jujitsu, all these other things. So maybe we can make other connections that aren't just physical the whole way through or

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, of course, you know, you're going to have physical connections. I actually look at it more the other way, honestly, like hunting and hiking and getting up in the mountains and move in. And like that helps me in my MMA training because it's a different type of training than what, you know, I'm used to what most people are used to, you know, just just being able to.

put a heavy load on your back and pack something out like that. I look at that as like, Oh, this is like preparing me for a fight. So it's kind of funny. I look at it almost in an opposite way too. Like they both help each other. And I think, um, mentally, uh, what's really interesting. So I started hunting at a pretty similar time to when I started training MMA. And so, um,

obviously I had that wrestling base and I had 20 plus years of wrestling knowledge. But like you said, there's so many other disciplines and styles that I had to learn, right? Like I have to learn jujitsu. I've learned boxing. I've learned Muay Thai. I have to learn how to blend these all together. And, uh, that's really how hunting is, right? You know, there, there's a lot of different ways to hunt. There's different styles, there's different terrains, you know, there's different animals. So, um, I think for me, it's about, um,

when I look at my MMA training and hunting training, I want to learn really good solid fundamentals and in everything that I'm doing. And I feel like when you master the fundamentals and the basics,

then you can really be free to do whatever you want. You know, people see, I think the end result a lot of times they see, oh, you get your arm raised, you have that success or, oh, you, you killed a massive bull or you killed a big deer or something like that. Like they just see that they don't see all the hours and hours that you spent

training and mastering those fundamentals or mastering your shot technique or spending time in the mountains studying, scouting, and then learning how animals react to certain situations and how to put yourself in the best position, those type of things. So I feel like they're one and the same really for MMA and for hunting. If you can master fundamentals and

then, you know, basically whatever scenario you're in, you're going to be able to make the best decision possible and put yourself in good position. Yeah, no. And you said like, you know, the fundamentals, you know, a lot of people look at us because we are, you know,

Good callers, great callers, you know, the top, the top of the, but there's still a foundation has to be laid. Like we have a very good understanding of elk. You know, a lot of people look, oh, you can just call. So that's why you're successful. I was like, I can shoot my bow very well. I can understand elk. I'm in pretty good shape. Like I've, I've been through enough situations. I'm never going to quit. So I hunt till the last minute of the last day, every time, you know? And so it's like, yeah, you, you've got this foundation, very fundamental. And then you build from there. And then you, yeah, like I always figure there, there's some great elk hunters that don't run a call.

You know, they figured out different ways. They're super, they're maybe even sneakier than I am. And so there's lots of ways, but you build that foundation. And like you say, there's nothing stopping you from figuring out who you are, how you're going to do it, which translates over really well from that. Yeah.

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Next question is from Jason Verbeck, a guy I got to mule deer hunt with probably 10 years ago in Eastern Washington. Hey, you just had a question. Is it, is it a feeling similar between like when you let a perfect arrow go versus like when you're getting ready to knock after you knock somebody out or when, you know, submit somebody like, is there any carry over to that similar feeling or is it different? Oh, there's a ton of carry over. There's a ton. You know, I think that it's,

It's very similar. The only difference I would say is, you know, when you're hunting, you're just, you're out in the wilderness and you're in nature and it's so peaceful. It has this weird blend of like, you know,

violence kind of in a way, because you're sending an arrow through an animal, through their vitals, and they're going to die. But you're also just like a lot of times in this very quiet, serene, majestic scenario, beautiful country a lot of times. And then in a fight, there's so many people packed in there, and it's such a more of a chaotic environment. But as far as the actual...

action of it happening it's super similar you almost turn everything off and uh like i noticed when i knock a guy out um when i if you if you punt like sometimes you'll punch somebody and you'll feel the connection on your hand but a lot of times if you land a really good shot you don't feel it at all it's like it's like there's nothing there and i think it's very similar to like when you loosen arrow and it's just a perfect shot it's almost like you don't even really

you, you, you just, it just releases and it's not like an, it's not tense at all. So I think the ads, it's super similar. It's a good feeling for sure. Gotcha. Yeah. Uh, next question, Adam Breakfield, um,

And I don't know if this is a question about his kid, like to get a mindset as a young wrestler that you need to focus on competing and not necessarily the outcomes to get you like through that, through that stage of maybe not winning all the time. Yeah, no, that's a great question. I think that that's something that I actually struggled with a lot because when you have success as a young athlete,

then maybe a lot, sometimes you feel more pressure to have more success and, you know, you start focusing on the wrong things or maybe there's just outside pressures, you know, of course everybody wants to win. That's just, that's natural and that's normal. That's not a bad thing. But I think that I always go back to like why I'm doing what I'm doing. And for me, winning isn't why I do what I do. I didn't wrestle just so I could win. You know, if I, if I, my, my main priority in life was just winning.

then I would do something really easy that I would win every time and I would never lose, you know? And so, um, I, I enjoy wrestling and I enjoy a fighting because I like to challenge myself. I like the strategy. I like to, um, you know, I like the blend of,

physical physicality and and mental preparation and you know having to you know make decisions in a scenario a high pressure scenario quickly so that's that's what i i like that's why i like wrestling and so i think it's important for people to ask themselves why why am i doing what i'm doing and i also think it's okay to change directions like if you if you're doing something and

maybe you realize why you're doing it is it's not very fulfilling. It's not the right reasons. Like you should find something that you really love and enjoy the process. And, and, you know, I know that's not easy, but that's kind of, I think what you have to do to really get good results. I mean, you can get good results for a certain amount of time doing something that you don't love, but it's not fulfilling. And I don't think that's really going to last. Yeah.

Great point. My buddy, Jesse, I'm going to get his name wrong. He used to like all the big garbages around here. He wanted to know what it was like meeting Trump and how that situation went.

So that was crazy. So the story goes, after my last fight, Trump was actually cage side. So he was there watching it. And I kind of like went up to him after the fight and just said hello and stuff. And then basically, the next week, he invited me out to Bedminster to his golf club to play around and golf with him. And I'm not a big golfer, but I'm like, this is a great opportunity. So I'm definitely would love to but it ended up being really awesome. We just

hung out and I rode in the car with him and we played 18 holes and we, he's just a super down to earth, cool guy for being, you know, president of the United States and one of the most famous people on the face of the planet. He was super down to earth. We talked about, uh, obviously golf. We talked about fighting. We talked about football and it was just kind of like,

just hanging out like a couple of rows. I really, and that's usually how I judge people is I'm not ever going to judge people based on what anybody else says about them. I'm going to judge them based on my own interactions with them. And, you know, people can say whatever they want, but I've had a good amount of experience and hung out with the guy for hours and hours. And he's super cool. Super, like I said, down to earth and just one of the nicest guys I've ever met. That's awesome. How many, did you beat him or did he beat you?

Oh, he's good, man. I'm not, he was shooting. So this is pretty crazy. So he was playing with Lawrence Taylor and there was a couple other guys and they were betting on each hole. And so the last hole, it was like,

coming down to the wire and, uh, Trump hit like 150 yard shot, like perfect two feet from the pin to like win the round. And it was like, he's really good. So yeah, it was, it was, it was crazy. I was just fun for me just to watch. That's, that's cool. Um,

My buddy Matt Schmitz, who's a wrestling coach and then like a wrestling coach for the prep. And this must be one of his own kids. Do you have any advice for a high school wrestler that always plays it too safe and conservative and he's hesitant to like throw when he needs to? Yeah. You know, I think that that kind of goes back to one of the previous questions. It's, you know...

If you're focused on the results and you're focused on the outcome, then a lot of times, you know, you're going to be tense and you're not going to really compete freely. You're not going to compete the way you want to compete. And so I think that first off, you know, you got to realize why you're doing it. Yeah, winning and losing is, you know, nobody wants to lose. Everybody likes to win. Like that's not unusual. And something that actually my coach, that Coach Kale said the other day,

that I really liked was he said it's okay to be nervous it's just not okay to be nervous about being nervous yeah you know nerves are normal and everybody gets nervous before a match so you know just don't feel weird about that don't feel like you know oh my gosh like what am I I'm nervous I'm not gonna what am I gonna do now just like all right I'm nervous okay that's good that just means I care and yeah I think that uh the other thing is that's really important

is develop a system. So always have... Like I have in my mind when I got to wrestle, all I would think was circle, post the head, pull him around, get to my shot. Circle, post the head, pull him around, get to my shot. And so it's very simple. And any time in the match, that's just what I would be... I would repeat in my head. And so you never really get...

caught up and lost in what to do. And you're not worried about what the score is or how much time left. You're just circle, post the head, pull them around, get to the leg like shot. And so I think those two things are really important. So yeah, try to try to, you know, it's okay to be nervous, but

just understand that that's normal and also just build a system. So you don't have to try to figure out what you're going to do in the match. You already know, and you already have a plan. Gotcha. Gotcha. Um,

So Hunter Schmitz, which is his kid, got to watch him wrestle a little bit this year. His kids are outstanding wrestlers. What's your favorite wrestling move? And this is where maybe you do have a move or you just talked about technique, you know, circle push the head. But now, I don't know if you consider moves like a single move, but I'll let you answer that how you think. Like I said, I'm not the wrestling guy. No, I think, you know, you're on track. A lot of people think of...

individual moves, you know, but really once it was kind of like what I said earlier, once you kind of master fundamentals and you can do whatever you want to do. So for me, it was always fun to just be creative and score and,

creative ways and the way I was able to do that was master fundamentals but if I were to have to pick a move that I really liked it was always uh cradles so you know I had long arms and I was pretty quick so I was able to get to a lot of cradles and and for me the the ultimate like best part about wrestling was pinning somebody you know I I think that uh that was just my style and what I gravitated most towards from a young age so you know cradles were a way that like that was always kind of one of my

my best areas, best moves, and I was able to pin guys in them.

So that was fun. Yeah. And that's, it seems like you watch, and this is just like, once again, me on the outside, not Clint, you watch kids like start with moves. Like you, you know, the tough kids are head and arm and you're early and then you go through this. And then it's like, as things go on, you're slowly like losing the ability to throw these moves because other wrestlers. And we've even watched it a little bit where the dominant kids can still cradle and stuff, but you're almost to the point, like if you're not super dominant, which, you know, maybe, you

you know, it's like some of these kids have to just go back to the fundamentals, like, you know, single leg, double legs, you know, and run, run the normal program. And it's kind of funny, you teach all these moves early, but I think, you know, just as an outsider, as a coach, just coaches other things like when I'm watching you guys wrestle at a very high level, like it all come, come full circle back to fundamentals. It seems like. Yeah, absolutely. You know, it definitely cycles. I think at first,

you know, when you're young, you're kind of just flopping around and even more important just to learn like how to control your own body, not even like control another person. But I think once you get to a certain level,

From there, then it's, you know, you don't see those moves work as much because kids are a little better. They know how to defend them. And that's when, like I said, you know, you're you always have to continue to master fundamentals and and get better and improve on them. You know, I was able to pull off a lot of what people would call like junior high moves or crazy moves in college. And but that was because my fundamentals allowed me to execute in those positions, you know, not necessarily, you

you know, just going for crazy moves out of nowhere. It would be something that my opponents had to put themselves out of position because I was in position. So then now these quote unquote crazy moves are more available to me. And I think that that's what people don't realize. And also I think it helped that I just wasn't scared. You know, I'm not afraid. It doesn't matter if it's

first match of the year or the NCAA finals, like I'm going to wrestle the same. So, you know, that, that's something that I think added to that, but yeah, it definitely goes in cycles and the fundamentals are something that can never be, you can never feel like, you know, you don't need to work on them. It's always going to, it's always going to help you. Yeah. Gotcha. Next question. Last question from the listeners, which is actually my co-host on this. He hosts every other show, Dirk Durham. What's your diet look like, you know, for, for training and hunting, if it's different or the same all the time?

Yeah. So, you know, when I'm, when I'm training and getting ready, I pretty much, I keep it very simple. I do, uh, obviously a lot of, a lot of meat, a lot of game, elk, venison, I'll do bison, different stuff like that. You know, I'll eat, I'll eat beef and stuff and eat salmon. And, you know, so, um,

a lot of meat fish. Um, and then I keep it pretty simple with everything else. Potatoes, maybe some rice here and there. Um, I'll do, uh, I have a nice farm near me so that I get raw dairy and raw cheese. So get, get some raw milk in there and then, you know, uh, but I, I keep it very simple. I don't do a lot of, uh,

I don't really do any processed foods. I make sure that I stay hydrated and get good electrolytes and stuff. And yeah, so and then hunting, it's a little different because with when I'm training and getting ready for a fight,

I have like two, basically I usually do two, two-ish hour training sessions a day. And then the other time I'm able to like focus on my nutrition. But when I'm hunting, it's like you might be out for 10 hours. Like you might just be in the morning getting it. So, you know, I kind of adjust that. Usually I'm eating a little bit less and I'll lose a little bit of weight and stuff. But I try to

Of course, like bring snacks and no, but I keep it pretty simple still, you know, fruits. And again, like, you know, maybe maybe bring some jerky stuff like that. So but I don't really do a lot of.

a lot of processed stuff. And if I'm eating carbs, it's potatoes or fruit. So yeah, I'm just, I'm very simple with that. Gotcha. No, on that topic, I'm going to add my own question to that since I don't have it later on. So cutting, like you gotta hit, you gotta hit a weight. Like what's your, what's your normal weight you walk around and how much weight you typically have to lose? And have you started like cutting now for a month out? Like how's that process work? Like your normal weight, your fighting weight and then what it takes to get there.

So the way it works for me now, I'm about 207, 208 and I have to make 186. So we're like a little over 20 pounds. And the way I do it is it's a water load. So I don't have to do a lot until about 10 days, 10 days out. And once we get to that point, I'll start to hypersaturate with water.

you know, a couple gallons of water in a day. And, uh, then obviously when I work out, it kind of flushes my system and I'm able to sweat out a ton. And so then I just basically slowly bring it in. Um, so it'll be like two gallons, 1.75, 1.5, and I'll just bring it in to a lower, lower amount until, uh, till weigh-in day. And that, that gets me down. And I have a

nutrition coach. Um, and he does my strength conditioning as well. So he helps me with everything and he calculates it all out. So I don't have to guess and try to figure it out for myself. But, uh, yeah, I mean, for me, that's really new. I never cut a lot of weight as a kid or high school or even college. Like when I was in college, my senior year, I wrestled one 97 and pretty much every practice I would end underweight. Uh,

I weighed about 200 pounds. I would end practice at, you know, 196, 197. And so I feel like where people focus on cutting weight, it's more important to just focus on skills and also just having fun like that. That could easily be the worst part about wrestling, you know, cutting weight and stuff. Yeah, you're you might be at a competitive disadvantage younger if you're not cutting weight. But in the long term, you're going to end up better off because you're gonna have to learn, you

you know, more skills and also it's going to be more fun for you. So you're going to enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah. I remember the, you know, thankfully the high school organizations or the, the interscholastic have like put some rules on cutting, right. Where you got an initial way in. So you don't have the kids running up and down the highway and black garbage sacks and spitting in cups all day anymore because they can't,

They can't weigh in below that initial weight, but some of them are still doing it for that initial way and they still, you know, get down so that they can, you know, but then they have to continue to cut. But it, yeah, I, sometimes I wonder like how healthy that is, but if you're doing it just by water loads and not just like crazy, you know, I'm sure there's some calorie deficit, but, um, yeah, I just, I would hate for people, you know, especially young kids, um,

Be careful how I say this. Like if you're not elite or doing it for like a real reason, you know, like UFC or collegiate championships, like, yeah, maybe you guys should just wrestle at your own weight and play a little safer. Yeah. You know, I think that it can, like I said, it makes the sport, it's already a tough sport and it makes it really tough and not fun when you're at a deficit. And so, you know, I always recommend that, you know, just especially as a young kid, doesn't matter how good you are.

when you're in the sixth grade or even when you're in junior or senior in high school, you know, just wrestle what you weigh, let your body grow, be healthy, be happy, enjoy the sport. And, uh, like I said, you know, for me, I understand if people in college want to cut weight, you know, it's competitive. There's only 10 spots on the team. You know, you want to make the team, you want to be, you know, college all American national champ. So you're also a little older and more mature. You can handle it a little better. Um,

So at that point, it's like, you know, you got to do what you do. And now for me, I'm, I'm like a full grown adult. And I also know, like, I'm disciplined. And I have a, I know how to do it in the best way possible. And I'm not going to stray from the plan. So I'm able to, I like I said, you know, it's not fun, and it's not enjoyable, but I'm able to do it in a way where it's not really hurting me. Yeah.

Yeah, good. So, okay. Well, thanks for answering all those listener questions. Once again, if you have questions for me or my guests, feel free to email them to us at CTD at Phelps game calls or hit us up on any of the social platforms. We'll do our best to get on there.

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Now we're going to kind of jump into our discussion, a few questions. A lot of it's been hammered over. But my first question is, how long would it take for you to knock me out or pin me with my experience? I want to know your honest answer. Would it be 10, 15 seconds? That's funny.

You know, my so so I get in these discussions a lot. And my the last person that brought this up was one of my managers. And so he wrestled in high school. And so he thought like I think he was maybe even like a state place or something like that. And he was like, I think I could last 30 seconds or whatever. And I was like, how much how much do you want to bet? Like, yeah, let's go any amount.

and uh he was like then he got a little less confident and i was like dude i'll literally put any amount of money on it and uh he he lasted about four seconds so it was pretty okay so he's a state place here i'll give myself like a few my only yeah i don't have any advantage like me thinking i'm six four and 250 it doesn't it just doesn't matter right for people that don't understand the sport or wrestle at the level you do there's just levels to this and like

It might matter, you know, if like I was like tiny, you know, if I was like a hundred, if you were a hundred pounds heavier than me or something like that, then at that point, you know, it could matter. But, uh, that's the thing. Like,

I'm big enough to where it doesn't really matter. You can be big, yeah, and it's all good. And then I don't even want to ask this question then because you're probably going to say I could beat you at that. I'm like, how long would I – or no, would I be able to beat you in a basketball court? But your mom was like a collegiate player. I'm like, you'd probably beat me in that too. I'm not even going to ask that question anymore. My mom and I used to play quite a bit. Yeah, yeah. So I'm not even going to – just strike that one from the corner. We're not asking you. Yeah.

Um, so I'm going to jump into, you know, what kind of inspired you? Like what, you know, you're, you're cranking along, you know, wrestling, one of the best wrestlers in the world. Um, you know, and then your MMA career starts to take off. Like what inspired you to like, where did this hunting idea come from? Like, did you see something that wasn't Joe Rogan talking about it? Like what made you want to go do this?

So I actually grew up around it. So I lived, I was born in Colorado and I lived until I was about 12 in Wyoming. And so hunting was something that my grandpa did, my dad did. I remember, you know, there'd be mornings where they'd get up and, you know, they'd be out, go hunt some mule deer or go hunt birds or whatever it was, you know, early. And so that was always something that was normal to me. Like

For Thanksgiving, we'd get a turkey. It wouldn't be like a turkey from the store. It would be like my granddad or my dad would go shoot a turkey. And, you know, so that was something that was really regular for me. And I just never did it young because I was always wrestling and the seasons overlapped and I didn't have a lot of time. But so it was always something that I kind of was around. And then when I graduated from college,

Like, you know, you're used to being a student athlete. And so you have hours and hours of classes along with practice. And now I'm graduating and I'm just practicing. So I'm like, I got a lot of free time. Like, what am I going to be interested in? What do I want to do? And so I saw, you know, again, I have a lot of family members that hunt and stuff. And I was like, huh, maybe I could do like bow hunting. Maybe I could do some archery. And so I thought about it for a while. And then, you know, just the more I researched it and the more I looked into it,

I think that the fact that just, just so many things aligned as far as one wanting to eat healthy and, and have be able to provide, uh, meat for myself and for my family. I thought that was, you know, such a cool thing. And I wanted to make sure like, you know, you can get, get meat at the store, but it's, it's not the same quality as, as a, as a real, you know, wild animal. And so, um,

That was a big factor and a big influence. And then just the way that everything that we've talked about, kind of how hunting aligns with what I do in my, in my career and the, the,

the passion and the pursuit and, you know, setting goals and the, the discipline that it takes to be successful. And all those things just really, they just like kind of spoke to me. And so, um, I'm fortunate that now I live in an area in central Pennsylvania where there's, there's pretty good opportunity, um,

to, to be able to travel, you know, short, short while and have, uh, you know, land that we can hunt on and stuff. And also, uh, you know, I still have a family back home in Colorado and in Wyoming. And so I'm able to go back there and visit as well. So I have, you know, pretty good access to places I can hunt. Yeah. That's awesome. Um,

So as you know, you, as you're becoming a celebrity, um, you know, very well known, have you gotten like any negative flack or any pushback on being a hunter? Like, and how have you dealt with that or justified it? Yeah, it was funny. So, um, the first, the first time I like posted, posted anything about it, I had a ton of people just like, they almost seemed shocked. They were like, what? Like, Oh my God, like, what are you doing? Like, that's so messed up. This and that. And, uh,

At first, I would kind of respond to people and comment. I'm like, well, are you a vegetarian or do you eat meat? Like you eat McDonald's. Do you know where that comes from? And, you know, you know how many animals die for you to be able to eat that? Like, you know, and so I'm like, this is just and so there was a little bit of negative response. But I feel like the MMA community, the wrestling community, the hunting community are all pretty similar mindset. So.

you know, if anything, it was, it was more positive and more people that kind of said, wow, like I didn't know you hunt. Like I'm even bigger fan now. And, or, or no, I didn't know you hump. That's so cool. I'm a fan now. So I would say, you know, yeah, there was a little negativity, but even I would say way more, way more positive. Yeah. Good. Good. Um, yeah, we, I mean, we, we don't know a different, cause our industry really is the hunting industry, right? Like I came up, that's how I became where I am. And so you don't have, you don't get as many naysayers. Um,

But you, you know, Chris Pratt, you know, we were all stoked, you know, as a group of hunters, like, yeah, the guy, and then he retracts a little bit, right. And takes pictures down and it's like, ah, you know, we, we'd love to have, but I understand like he makes a living and he doesn't want to jeopardize that. And so it's easy for me to say like,

you know, fight him. I was just curious if you'd had any of that. I do, you know, like Mendez is big in the honey, you know, it's like more of these, you know, MMA wrestling, you know, crossover celebrities. And I think it's good. It helps kind of show that there's a reason and the big movement for like natural food and meat and like knowing where your food comes from is another, you know, good point that we can all make is we, you know, seems like

you know, every day we're losing more and more of that right. Or the ability, you know, you saying you're from Colorado, like the fight that we're, we're taking on in Colorado right now is nuts. Like, you know, they're, they're labeling it trophy hunting and they use all these words that basically, um, you know, the, they can, they can describe it in a way where trophy hunting, it's like, that's not what it is. You're twisting words or, um, it's unfortunate. And, you know, it's like every day we kind of battle to continue on with the lifestyle that, that my family, uh,

We've ate meat off of natural, go-get-it-yourself meat for as long as anybody can remember. Who has the right to tell us that we can't do that anymore through ballot measures or whatever it may be? Yeah, the stuff going on in Colorado to me is insane. It's so wrong. I think there's a lot of ways to combat it, and the best way is to...

maybe just continue to stand strong and provide that like positive message and example of what hunting is. And like you said, you know, that's what's provided for your family for however long. And I think a lot of people, you know, are kind of tricked. They use marketing to trick them into thinking, you know, that that's not what it is and stuff. But I feel like just having rational, rational, reasonable conversations, like anybody that I've talked to in person that I've had a

conversation with that's been like why do you do that isn't that like well listen i can explain to you like you know how much more ethical it is to for for myself to eat this and and how much less waste there is and you know what's like these animals okay their options are you know they either provide food and meat for my family or they're going to die of starvation or illness or get eaten by a mountain lion like these are kind of the options and at the same time like

we're we're putting money back into conservation and making sure that these they're they're the healthiest populations that they can be and stuff and you know we're part of this this ecosystem and this food chain like that's the way that the world's worked since the beginning and you know anytime you can have a conversation with people like that i feel like most people the vast vast majority kind of understand it a little bit better you know i i think that when you maybe

try to, you know, fight it, fight it with in a more negative way when, you know, they're coming at you negatively. So you respond negatively.

it doesn't really help when you can just explain it then i feel like that's where i've seen the most help yeah and and you know last week i was able to kill uh that mature mountain lion and it seems like predators for some reason predators bring out more if it's a bear if it's a cougar more so than deer and elk and it was nice you know 99 was positive but we did have a few people like if that wasn't attacking you or your livestock your kids like shame on you right and then yeah

You can go at the guy, but I just did a little research. Like, oh, the guy fishes and eats fish. I'm like, it's the same. I look at the cougar as the same as the fish. Like, it's not an egotistical thing. It's like to balance nature. It's a mature tom. Another tom is going to take its place. These toms are going to kill each other if they're in the same areas trying to, like...

And it's great table fare. Like my job is to educate like people like, oh, you just killed the cat took a tide and like, no, I've got 55 pounds of cougar meat in my freezer now. And it's amazing. Yeah, some people are like, I even my, my family's killed a lot of deer and elk, just not a lot of cougar. And they're like, you're gonna eat that. I'm like, yeah, everybody says it's amazing. And it is it's just it's like a lean pork. And it's like these things are edible. And so you, like you said, you go out of positive, I could have told the guy like,

you know, go fly a kite. You're, you're killing innocent fish that aren't attacking your family. But that didn't do me any good. Like, Hey, no, we processed it. We packed the whole thing out. We were going to eat it as a family. Um, and everybody was like, you know, you, and then the guy responded like, Oh, that, that makes more sense. And like, well, I,

At least I hope it's from an area that can sustain your heart. I'm like, yeah, trust me that I don't have a shortage of big cats. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing too. Like I just feel like one, like there needs to be more just reasonable conversations and more education because I think one people don't realize that

Most of the time, people don't realize that this is what we're eating to sustain us. Whether it is an elk or a deer or a predator or a bear or a cougar, people don't really realize that. I think they need to be educated on that. Also, people don't understand that the way that

how conservation works and hunting and how they align. It's like for the benefit of every, of like, I don't, it's, it's wild to me that people think like you're going to hunt these animals. So they go extinct. It's like, first off, there's a ton of them everywhere. And they're, they're, they're actually, you know, they need to be hunted and they need to be managed.

Yeah. And secondly, you know, if, if their population, if there's too much, that's, that's a huge negative consequence in itself. Right. Like, you know, you look in deer, like the chronic wasting disease and stuff like that, that's, that's terrible. You don't want that type of stuff to happen or just, you know, getting hit by cars. Like Pennsylvania is one of the worst states for that just because of the, of the way it goes. But yeah, I mean the education piece I think can't be, can't be overstated. Like you said, the conservation side of it is, yeah, we,

ultimately want a lot of deer and elk on the ground, but I want like the maximum carry capacity. And if by like the North American model wildlife, like predators need to be managed as well to increase that. And so it's like, if you truly care about the deer and the elk and like the best way to like have the most of these animals,

If you, you know, if you're a naysayer, these free cute little cuddly critters on the ground is to let us feel, you know, kill a few cats and not, not shun that. And so I've always said it like us is hunters care the most about having the most game on the land anyways, and treating them. So it's like,

uh yeah but but i i agree back to your point like going at some of these naysayers with a positive uh mentality instead of being negative and kind of going at their throat at times is it pencils out better for us and has a better look uh overall for sure yeah absolutely so um

This is kind of a repeat question, but like that metal, the metal preparation, you know, we talk, everybody looks at wrestlers and it's like, oh, they're physical. They're in great shape. They're strong. They're skilled. How does like the metal preparation for wrestling and MMA kind of compare to hunting? You know, that ability to never give up and that mental strength that a wrestler is going to have or somebody at your level is going to have for sure.

You know, I think there's so many different answers to that and so many different things that apply. I would say that for me right now at this stage in my career, something that's been really important for me that we have touched on already is to focus on the process, not focus on the results. And so I feel like doing that has given me basically the best chance of success because I don't get discouraged. I don't get down and...

you know, would I like to have every single tag that I ever own to fill it and have 100% success? And yeah, of course I got. And you know, that's definitely the goal. But for me, it's more about improving, getting better as a hunter. And I know the more time I put in, and the more opportunities that I give myself, and the more times I put myself in a good position,

the more success that I'll have and the more goals that I'll reach. And it's not a sprint, right? Like it's a marathon. Like I'm going to be able to hunt for a long, long time. And it's kind of similar to my MMA career where, you know, I'm not in a rush. Yeah, my goals are to be UFC champion and the pound for pound number one fighter in the world. But I know that it takes a lot of work and time and effort to get to that point. And the way that I'll get there the fastest is

is just by every single day improving, getting a little bit better, putting time into my craft. And so I think that with hunting, you know, I don't, anytime I go to hunt, yeah, like I would like to kill the biggest animal possible. And I want to, you know, um,

be able to make a good shot and stuff. But that's just by the way I'm going to do that is by putting one foot in front of the other and being disciplined and again, having good fundamentals and keeping a cool head and, um, just, you know, worrying about the next step, not worrying about, you know, what that Mount's going to look like up on my wall. Yeah. And you mentioned something early in that about like enjoying the process, not the outcome. Um, we get to talk to

of hundreds, you know, it was worth trade shows or we're doing a seminar here or there. And you always get, you know, it's kind of the, the cliche story is like, man, I, you know, I'm going to, I'm gonna learn how to call because I'm going to draw this tag in nine or 10 years, you know? And we all, me and Dirk, my marketing manager at a lot of these things were like, take a step back. Like when you want to, when you do draw this tag, when you want to have a few cows under your belt and maybe a few rag horns under your belt and like, don't, don't,

don't avoid the opportunity and look at this like prize at the end. Like for me, I want to, I want to fill my freezer and there's so much more opportunity out there. And it's a, it's a little, I'm kind of, kind of pulling at this, but like,

don't, don't feel like you need to kill the biggest six point bowl on the mountain or the big, like go out there and learn your craft, like own your craft. Because if you're waiting 10 years to draw a tag, number one, you're not going to be very good when you finally do have the premium tag in your pocket or the chance you're going to probably blow it because you didn't put in the work for the last 10 years when you should have been out there chasing cows or spikes or rag horns or whatever you, you had the opportunity to do. And that's, um, I think that's,

social media doesn't do any new hunters favors because they see the likes of, and I've been doing this my entire life, right? Like it, it's unfair for you to look and say, well, you know, this guy or not saying me, even all these other guys that hunt,

And that's all we do. Like killing, it's like it taken, it's taken a lot of time to get to the point where I'm comfortable and passing a lot of smaller bulls. Cause trust me, if I showed you the first 10 years of, I was successful early on, but a bunch of little teeny rag horns, like teeny little bulls. And, and I cut my teeth on those and that's what made me, you know, be to the level where I am now, where I don't mind letting those go now because I know, you know, and, and so, yeah, I think,

Like you said, you're getting better every day you're in the gym. I think hunters, we only have so much time in September, so it's even more magnified, right? You only get so many Septembers. Like, you need to be out hunting, learning, honing your craft so that you get better on a very shortened scale. Absolutely. Yeah, I couldn't agree with that more. The experience to me, especially right now, is what's most valuable. And that's what I appreciate the most, you know, like when...

when I look back at the hunting experiences that I have had, it's been the camaraderie with the guys I've been with and what I've, what we've been able to do. And, and also, you know, the, just like me making good decisions and putting myself in a good position. Like that, that's what I think is cool. I'm like, Oh man, like either, either on the positive or negative, like, Oh man,

I really should have done that differently or, Oh, I should have done this or that. And that's like, and now I'm like, that's cool. Like I learned that now I'm never going to make that mistake again. Or wow. Like, Oh, look at, I did this and it worked out. That's, that's really cool how that worked out. Oh, maybe there's something to learn there too. And to take with me to the next time. So that's really, I think what's the most valuable. I'm just being able to like feel confident in those situations and that just

your experience, like you said. Yeah, adapt. And I'm the same, you know, people ask me all the time, like I'm supposed to know the answer to every situation and have the right answer. I'm like, trust me, I fail more than I succeed out there still as a guy that

You know, it was supposed to know all about elk hunting. And I'm like, it's just, it's, it's just elk hunting. And, and I'm either chalking it up to a lesson learned, or like you said that, Hey, I made the right decision that time and it worked out in my favor. And, uh, we're going to talk a little bit about more of that mental. But the other thing is I've been doing this long enough where I'm

Um, you know, the same as in a fight, you might be down by a point, you know, with a minute and the clock's running out. Like you've been there enough though, and overcome that, that you don't get frazzled or like, I don't get frustrated on a seven day hunt because I know that it's only going to take one. And so like my mental game is, is unbreakable on a hunt because I've been there. I've seen that it only takes one. And so I'm just waiting for that one to make a, you know, a mistake or things to go my way. Yeah.

And, you know, that's one of the biggest things where just tons of experience and being being in that position helps me where a new guy they're like, I'm not hiking around these mountains anymore. There's no elk out here or this has been bad three days. Nothing's working in my favor. I'm done. You know, and so that mental game is huge in hunting as well.

Yeah, for sure. You know, people, I think they just get frustrated way too easily. And, uh, you know, that, like you said, it's a perfect, um, example, but you only need one mistake. You know, you only need them to make one, you need one little wind sliver of opportunity and, you know, you can make it happen. And that's the, I think people, uh,

No, maybe I think that that probably boils down to just wanting the result. They just, you know, maybe you want the meat in the freezer or they just want the mount on the wall. And that's not what hunting is about. You know, you want to do that. It's not hunting. I don't know. I don't, I'm more worried about our younger generation. I mean, you're, you're younger than me, but you, you know, your wrestling background, you've obviously came up the right way, but this instant gratification, um,

you know, group that's coming through, like hunting is going to be, they're going to really struggle because it's not ever going to, unless you're on some private ranch, which I'm not against, but like the outcome is you're going to, it's going to be like everything else we do in life where your, your outcome is going to, you know, you're going to have to hit the time, punch a time clock, put in the work, do the work in order to get results consistently. And, uh,

Yeah. I've always wondered like my kid, I can see it in them a little bit. Like, like I just want to, they just want to like kill on the first day and sometimes be done. And it's like, no, this is like a process. This is a grind. It's supposed to be like this. You know, and then,

expanding on that where it's like, all right, now you killed your first buck. Yeah, it was a good little four point, but let's go try to find something bigger and like challenge ourselves. And he's like, no, I want to just kill, you know, I'm fine with that as long as it happens on day one again, you know? And so it's like, you can always challenge yourself to get, you know, better. Now, um, I don't want to, uh,

I'm never one to back away from sport hunting, but I've always felt like you challenge yourself, taking more mature animals, always, you know, something that we do, but yeah, it's, it's interesting to see if, if these you know, teens and early 20 guys are going to be able to like put in and grind on some of these hard hunts that kind of what I tried one, but. Right. Yeah. It's, it, I think you're, you're spot on with, you know, the, the instant gratification and that just seems, you know, a product of,

social media and kind of the way that the world is working nowadays. It's like, you know, you look at Uber Eats and Instacart and stuff, you have to hit a button and then dinner's delivered to you now. And it's like just crazy stuff like that. And I feel like really fortunate that it wasn't like that for me.

with wrestling or, you know, it didn't just come right away. And I was, I had to put a lot of time and effort in and work hard. And so now I just really relate everything to that. And hunting for me has been kind of similar. Like, you know, there, I think, like you said, that there's a time for, for both. There's a time for, you know, private land ranch hunts where, you know, you're going to get opportunity and it might be the first day. And like, you know, I think that, that you're going to have success and there, there's a time for that. There's also a time for

you know, getting in the back country or on public land and doing it yourself. And it's going to take some time and maybe you don't see anything. And I think that they're both, they're both, uh, to me just as valuable. And, uh, you know, I would hope that there's people that can continue in that mindset. I think, like you said, it's, it's going to be more difficult just with

the way the world works nowadays, but I see a lot of value in that, um, from, for myself. And so, you know, I just feel fortunate, hopefully that I have a son now, once he gets old enough to be able to share those lessons with him and, you know, hopefully the same thing with my friends and their kids and things like that, that, you know, we can, we can hopefully continue these, uh, these lessons and help kind of pass that down in some way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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So today, is there a hunt that stands out to you more so than, than another? Like if you, if there's one that you think about or that you're like, that was pretty cool. Yeah. You know, I think that, um,

I've been really fortunate. You know, I've only hunted a few years and I've had a lot of success. And I think that mostly has to do with the people that I've been able to surround myself with. I've just been really fortunate to be around really good guys and really good experienced hunters who, you know, just have the right type of mindset and I've been able to learn from them. And so, you know, I have a lot of gratitude for all of my hunts. I think that my first

Um, archery, uh, kill was probably like what I really think about. So I went to, uh, West Virginia. I was hunting whitetail in an area and, uh, my buddy, so I'd never hunted there before. My buddy had hunted there for a few years.

And it was one of those, you know, we, we were there for three days and it was like, we got there and it's like 80 degrees and we're like, Frank, what are we going to do? Like, this is not good. And, uh, you know, and, and also in an area like he knew a little bit, but like neither of us knew it super well. So we were kind of just trying to get after it, trying to get, get some action and it wasn't looking good. And it was, uh, you know, we'd,

really saw nothing. We saw one deer about 150 yards off that was gone in a second on the, and then, uh, it got to the last morning. So we were, um, going to be, I think leaving around noon. And so we had, you know, just maybe another hour left to hunt. And, uh,

My buddy and I, we had been kind of doing a little bit of hunting together, a little bit of splitting up. And he was like, all right, how about you post up here? I'll maybe like circle around, see if we can get anything moving. And I was like, all right, let's do it. And this was...

yeah, like I said, you know, I, this was like my first time archery hunting. I mean, I had sat in some stands and stuff in PA, but never like took a shot at anything. And so, you know, he, he kind of was still like taking the lead, you know, helping me a lot. And, uh, he was like, set, set up, set me up here. Then he like kind of went around and I was on like the top of a, like kind of a, a

big hill like and it was wooded I was like you know what I don't really like the spot like I'm gonna go down a little bit so I went down probably like 50 yards and I just kind of sat myself in between these two trees and I had like a thicket on my left and so I ranged a few areas and I had like a few good shooting lanes and it was just like and I was just kind of like all right I'm just gonna enjoy being here nature sit and

it's all good. Pray a little bit and just thank God for me being able to just be out. And now we're going to go home empty handed, but it's all good. And I was just kind of in the middle of thought and about eight yards from me walks out, walks a little whitetail and it's him. And then I got that thicket, that bush in between me and him. And he just walks right by me. And I'm like,

immediately just like heart thumping, like losing it. And, uh, so he's, he's kind of walking at an angle, um, in front of me. And so I have a big tree in front of me. And so I know he's going to walk out on the other side. And so I already had it, uh, ranged. And so I'm sitting down and as he walks by the tree, um,

I draw back and I'm waiting for him to come out. And it felt like it was an eternity and it was probably 10 seconds. And so he comes out and almost exactly perfectly where I thought he would. He was at 32 yards.

And boom, sent the arrow. And it just seemed like everything happened so fast. It was insane. And he kind of jumped and kicked and took off. And I was just, my heart's thumping. And so I waited there for probably like 10 minutes, 15 minutes. And I was like, I don't think I could wait anymore. Let me go find my arrow. So I go up and I find my arrow. And it's like, you know,

you know, full blood on the fletchings looks like lung. And I'm like, this is perfect. Let's go. And, uh, so then I sit there another like five minutes or so it's been like 20 minutes and mind you, my, there's no service. So I can't tell my friend or anything. And, uh, so I'm just like, all right, let's see if like there's decent blood. And there was like really good blood. And so I'm like, I'll follow this. And so I felt followed it down the mountain and maybe 40 yards down behind a tree. The buck was right there. And I was just like,

Oh my gosh, this is insane. I can't believe this happened like last second, like hail Mary and it worked out and

And so then I'm like, all right, that hill was pretty steep. So then I'm like, okay, I'm just going to drag this dude back up, um, a ways to some flat area. So, uh, we can, we can gut him and stuff. And so I'm like dragging him and I'm halfway back up the hill and my buddy comes walking up and he looks at me and I'm just like, we did it. And he's like, Oh my gosh, no way. Like, that's crazy. And then we just, he ran up to me, we celebrated, but yeah, it was, uh, yeah.

Yeah. Public land, white tail on the ground was my first archery kill. So I was pretty, pretty pumped about that one. That's awesome. Yeah. I, I think everybody remembers their first deer is like, yeah, you know, one that you'll never forget. Do you have any dream hunts? Like, as you think, you know, as you're growing into this, like, is there something that's just like out there that you're like, man, I want to do that someday?

Yeah, honestly, I have a, I have a bunch, you know, I think my favorite, my favorite animal to hunt is elk for sure. You know, I'm going to be, that's going to be like my bread and butter. Um, that's definitely what I'm going to be spent, be spending the most time on from here on out. And I've been able to be on a few, uh, good elk hunts fortunately. And, you know,

I'm excited to chase elk as long as I can. I'm going to be doing a brown bear hunt, coastal brown bear here in May. Super pumped about that. All my hunts, I want to continue to do all bow hunting. I just love being up close and personal with the animals. That's something that I'm really excited about.

I would love to do a lion hunt at some point, mountain lion. So, you know, that's something that I'm real, real interested in. But I think, yeah, the main thing I want to do is elk, but I could, I could see myself getting into the predators as well. So that's something that I feel like it's kind of cool just because of the different mindset, right? Like, you know, they're, they're not prey, like they're, they're looking for their meals too. And I like the idea of having, of like seeing, you know, seeing that.

Yeah, I love it all. I was actually almost at the Portland show, booked a coastal brown bear hunt up on the peninsula for May, but it was just too short and I already had a bunch of turkey hunting. I'm sorry, everybody's going to be like, man, you traded turkey hunting for a brown bear for turkey hunting, but I already had it planned. Turkey's fun too, though. It is, it is. But it's like brown bear is one of my dream animals too. So we'll get it on the books. This year I'm going to do doll sheep, which was the mountain animals have always kind of been

been cool. So we're going to get that out of the way. And then, yeah, you know, talking about dream hunts and elk, like that's,

I was just, I think you had released your Instagram video from last year. You hunted with LOH Outfitters in New Mexico. And I'm like, oh, shoot, they're using one of our tubes. That's why I just kind of reached out. I'm like, hey, would you ever be interested in planning a hunt? Me and Dirk were trying to get our year. And so we're actually looking, we're going to apply with LOH again and see if we can't draw a tag this year and go to New Mexico. So I'm looking forward to that.

Yeah, dude, that's going to be awesome, man. I'm super pumped that that was really, uh, it was a really fun hunt and really beautiful country as well. There's some, some really good elk down there. So yeah, we're going to have a blast. Yeah. It's going to be awesome. So, um, you know, since sometimes I struggle since I've hunted my whole life. And so there's never been like somebody who's interested in starting hunting. So what would you, what advice would you give somebody who's interested in starting hunting, um, but doesn't maybe know where to begin?

No, that's a great question. I think that, uh, where I started, um, depending on, um, what you want to do, right? Like if you want to rifle hunt, if you want to bow hunt, I'll obviously like bow hunting is getting more and more popular. A lot of people want to hunt archery. And so I feel like finding a good, if you want to hunt archery, finding a really good archery shop is, is important, you know, do research and figure out, um,

where you can go, even if you have to drive away. It's like, I drive about two hours down to Lancaster archery and they have a great shop. And, uh, they, they were the ones that originally helped get me set up and stuff. And I still go back. So, you know, I think that's something that's, uh, so valuable is finding a good archery shop and getting yourself a good setup that you're comfortable with. I think that in addition to that, um,

YouTube is such a good resource. I think that I study a lot of film for fighting and I studied for wrestling and it's the same with me for hunting. I think that you can find a lot of pieces that are

um, super educational. Um, you know, just, just, just search it up on YouTube. There's a lot of good resources and whatever you're looking to do, even, even stuff like, uh, pack lists for gear, stuff like that. It's just simple that you probably don't even have to think of that type of thing anymore. But, you know, like for me, I'm like some of these trips, I'm like, what do I even, what do I, what should I bring? Yeah. Stuff like that's important. And, uh, I think

Also, there's a lot of hunting videos out there that are like 20 minutes and they're showing...

they're showing the hunt and stuff and then it's going to culminate with the kill try to like pick out little details that you see outside of like just the shot like I think people maybe fast forward and rewind and they just watch the kill and it's like dude there's so much valuable information in that 20 minute video of like for instance a good like something that I learned this last year that might seem so simple but it's just like

obviously we know um the wind like we don't want to get scented but where's the sun at like is the sun facing there like the animal or is it facing you like are you in the shade are you like there's something like this simple like that like you're like wow okay now i'm going to position myself in the shade and have the sunshine the animal like they're not going to seem you know obviously you know wind is first but you know those type of things um

you can learn through experience and maybe you mess up or you can learn from somebody else's experience. And so I think those things are really important. And lastly, just like, don't be afraid, just get out there, right? Like,

whether, whether you're, if you're out East, like, you know, you might have to be sitting in a stand, like just get out as many days as you can go sit in a stand, go, go, you know, mess with where your setup is and just try to dink around and hunt the same area for sure. Like, you know, if you're bouncing back and forth between a hundred different areas and you think, Oh, I just got to move to a new area to find success. Like maybe just figure out how to hunt one area. And, uh,

you know, I think that's, that's really important, but like, just put yourself, put yourself out there. Like if you got to go the whole season and don't see a thing, like that's going to be valuable information for you to learn next year to put yourself in better position. So, yeah. Yeah. That's,

You touched on a little bit, just like your time in the field is important because you can learn a lot from YouTube, podcasts, whatever it may be. There's a lot more information out now than when I was learning to do it 30 years ago. I just had to make my own playbook. There's so much information out there, but I've got the same guys that come to my seminars year after year and don't find success. I know I'm telling them everything that I do. Then

it's really like you need to go out and take these little bits, but then like develop your own system or figure it out for yourself in a way. And a lot of that just comes down to time. And I get it. A lot of us have busy lives or they'd rather take their, you know, a couple of weeks of vacation with their family. I don't blame you at all, but in the end, like time in the field is, is invaluable compared to, you know, YouTube, but it can help fill the pieces in or at least send you in the right direction. Yeah. The way, the way I look at videos is, you know,

For me, archery elk, it's like I got September. So there's 11 more months where I need to improve and get better. So that's the supplement, right? Like the most valuable for sure is that month is getting out there, experience. And I think to, you know, talk to people, ask them questions. Like, you know, I think most there's some hunters that maybe,

yeah, they're not going to take you to their best spot and set you up, but they're going to give you a good information. And, and then, you know, kind of like I said, too, I feel like maybe people hunt like 10 different or like one year they hunt this spot. They don't have success. So they go to a new spot. It's like, you can figure out one spot and figure out, just figure out how to hunt it. And if you know there are animals there, you know, just,

work that spot and you're going to learn a lot. You know, if you just try to bounce back and forth, it's always going to be different. Like if you go hunt, let's say you're hunting elk, it's going to be different in Colorado and New Mexico and Utah. Like, and even in a different unit, it's going to be, it's going to be so different. Try to, try to,

get out there as much as possible and if you don't have success at one spot that doesn't mean that's not a good spot yeah yeah the grass isn't always greener and one thing we always say is like don't leave elk to find out like you're there you just need to figure out the area a great point so um last question for you here i know i want to be respectful of your time um busy guy with a new kid and training and everything so how do you balance your hunting pursuits with your you know your training and your hunting commitments like how are you able you know like

some NFL stars struggle because they're playing football all season. So there may be getting a weekend and I have to kind of laugh. I watched the video of Chael, who's always critical of everybody. Like if the video is like, is Bo still hunting? Right. Cause he's,

Some people say you took a lot of time off from your last fight, but it's, you know, you had a baby coming. There's reason that, but I kind of had to laugh. It's like, and now you're on the UFC 300 card, but like back to the original question, like how are you balancing, you know, hunting with, with your training and you know, your, your events. Yeah. You know, it's definitely not easy. And I saw that video that Shell put out too. I thought that was hilarious. But yeah, I think that the most important part for me is just being

Making sure I'm building it out and planning in advance. Like I told my wife, like, okay, listen, September,

Don't even like it's, it's locked in. Like that's what I'm doing. And, and, you know, there might have to be sacrifices that you make otherwise. So like I've told her, I think communicating is important. And I've told her, I'm like, listen, I'm not going to like, this is what I want to do. This is what I'm passionate about. This is what I want to pursue outside my career. This is the thing that, you know, really just gets me pumped up. So

I'm not going to take, you know, these, I'm not going to be taking other trips throughout the year and, you know, dinking around and doing other stuff that's not as important to me. So I'm sacrificing certain things. So now I have time where I have this month of dedication towards hunting. And the other thing is that's nice for me is I'm able to schedule my fights. So guess what? We're fighting the end of July or August. So, you know, I get that fight.

and then straight to hunting. And now I'm got some time off and then I'm back to camp. So basically I'm just building that into my schedule. And I know not everybody's able to do that, like take a month off and stuff, but you know, you might be able to take a week, you might be able to take three days. And so I think whatever it looks like for that individual, you just got to plan ahead, build it out. And, uh,

be willing to sacrifice, you know, maybe some other things, maybe, you know, your boys want to take a weekend trip or they want this and that. It's like, you know what, man, like,

that would be a great time, but you know, I got to sacrifice that because I'm taking a weekend and here to, to go hunt. So that's something I think it's just, it's a big priority for me. So I, I align my time, uh, correctly, right? Like, you know, it's a, it's a really important for me to have time to hunt. So, you know, other things I'm not going to put as much, as much time into, and I just built it into my schedule. Now it's not even really, uh,

a second thought. It's just like, that's how it's going to work. How much flexibility do you have on like turning fights down? If one showed up in September, it was a fight you really wanted to take. Would you have to rethink or would you just push it off to the next event if possible? You know, I think I'm a big planner. So for me, um, I'm not interested in like the short notice fights. I know a lot of people do them and take them and stuff. And, uh,

for me, I want to plan and get ready and prep. And, and I don't care a lot. Like a lot of people, you know, yeah. At the end of the day, I fight, I'm a prize fighter. So I get a check at the end of the day, but that's not why I fight. So they could offer me 10 million bucks. And if I don't want to take the fight and I'm in the mountains chasing elk, then that's what I'm going to be doing. So the money thing is not really a big motivator for me. Um,

So the other things are a lot more important. And I think that's why people kind of do those short notice fights a lot of times is, oh, this is my only opportunity and it's a big check. For me, you know, I don't have that mindset. I'm not I don't have the scarcity mindset. I'm going to have more opportunity in the future. And the money is not a huge priority. You know, I just I want to do what's best for my career. So yeah.

Yeah. I'm not like the short notice guy. I'm more of a planner. Yeah. Good. Good. Um, so we're going to wrap this up. So April 13th, you mentioned you watch a lot of film. Um, are you willing to Cody Brundage? Are you thinking like standup wrestling or you're not going to, not going to, uh, show any cards here? No, you know, I think that, um, for me, um,

wrestling is always going to be my bread and butter, my base. You know, anybody that fights me is going to have to train months and months of wrestling just to try to get ready for me, which in my opinion is a waste because they're never going to catch up. But yeah,

Again, it's the same thing as hunting. It's back to those fundamentals and making sure that wherever we go in the fight, that I have the fundamentals to be able to take advantage of that situation and to be able to put myself in good position. So, you know, I never really... I have a plan and a strategy going into the fight, but really...

um, wherever the situation, uh, wherever the fight goes, whatever situation I'm in, I'm going to be well prepared. And so I might knock him out. I might submit him, you know, it could be a decision if, if he, if he's able to hang in there for me or with me for 15 minutes. So, you know, I'm not really, um, nervous or worried about wherever it goes. I have many, many paths to, to win, to victory. So yeah, that, that for me, I'm,

I'm just ready to compete. I'm excited. I'm fired up. Gotcha. So, Chimaev, when he says that you're not wrestling for points, you're still saying that it's very, very useful techniques inside the cage. A hundred percent. It's funny because...

the conversation um with him and everybody else is oh i smash this guy smash this guy one round i smash this guy and with me he says oh maybe if he takes me down i'll get back up so i can already see the the shift in the mindset like he knows who the better wrestler is he knows who like his biggest strength like i completely outclass him in that so i think that that to me it's more of a compliment it says a lot that you know he knows i would take him down and uh

I think that, uh, you know, for, at the same time that, that, that's going to be a massive fight. It's an exciting fight and he's a really, really tough guy, tough opponent does a lot of things well. So, um, we'll match up at some point in the future and I'll be ready. Can't wait to see that one. Well, good luck in your upcoming fight. We'll get, get through that one first. Um, and then I really look forward to joining you this fall or if we can draw a tag or get some tags and, uh,

going out to New Mexico. So really appreciate your time, Bo. Um, good luck in your fights and, uh, yeah, look forward to seeing how your kind of your, your hunting career kind of parallels your, your fighting career and, uh, really appreciate it. Yeah, definitely appreciate you having me on Jason. Had a great time. Take care of both.

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