37 | The King | Pelé: Dios Del Football
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So Frankie, where were you into in high school? Well, I went to a performing arts school and I was in theater. So I was a big theater nerd. I was in plays. Don't laugh at me. I'm sorry. This is funny how you say it. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I was a theater nerd. It was very competitive. I was doing musical theater. I was doing dance and monologues and all that other stuff. What about you? In high school, I started off getting my hoop on, playing a little football, running a little track. But I only did it for my freshman year.

My sophomore and junior year, I did a little bit of like poetry and prose and like extemp, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's like speech. Oh, that's the speech. Okay. I knew, I knew you were into speech in college, but it doesn't surprise me that you were already, you were doing that in high school too. I dealt with a little bit in high school. And then, you know, by the end of my junior year, senior year, you feel me? I started focusing on like party promoting and,

And I was a party promoter in high school. Yeah, I was a big party promoter in high school. I used to have about like, you know, 500, 600 kids coming to Ohio, Texas to come party with me.

I had a few of my Latino homies in there, too, but a lot of them was on that soccer field instead of the parties. You feel me? And what I learned is that soccer is one of the most popular high school sports in the U.S., which is interesting because, you know, soccer is not really that big when it comes to professional sports in the U.S., not like football or basketball or baseball.

But today, though, we're talking about the man that's responsible for all that. Oh, and by the way, since the rest of the world calls soccer football, that is what we are going to be calling it today, too. You know, we're all about authenticity here on Black History for Real. Entramos de año y en serio a la historia de la comunidad negra.

The year is 1956, and we're in a football stadium in San Paulo, Brazil. Halftime's over. Both teams take the field. One of the teams is Santos, and one of the Santos players is 14-year-old Pele. This isn't a youth team either. He's playing against grown-ass adults. Pele is short for his age, but what he lacks in height, he makes up for in talent.

He's more than a football player. He's an artist. He's fast, agile, fluid as flowing water on the pitch. Pele's totally transforming the game. That's why he's miles from home playing for this team. Pele plays forward, a striker. The team looks at him to score big goals. He looks around at the crowd in the stands. He loves the excitement of being on the field. He takes a deep breath, inhaling the smell of the grass beneath his cleats. Pele's in his element.

That's when he hears it. Pele turns to the left and looks into the crowd. A few fans for the opposing team, adjourn and making monkey noises towards him. Pele is clearly black. He's got rich, dark skin and what Beyonce calls a negro nose. He's part of Brazil's pretty big black population. And just like everywhere else, Brazil's got racism.

Black people wasn't allowed to play football for a long time. Pele doesn't want to give those guys any attention, so he shakes it off. He's just going to focus on proving them wrong by killing it on the field. Hey! Pele turns around. Santos goalkeeper, Arana, noticed the fans too. He storms over, face scowling, fist clenched. Pele sees what's about to happen. He runs over to Arana and stops him. Arana looks at Pele angrily.

What's wrong with you? I'm not letting those disrespectful assholes do my team like-- Pele catches the wild look in Aranya's eyes. It looks like Aranya's more upset than him. But deep down, Pele's hurting too. For some people, he'll never be enough. Instead, Pele smiles, soft and bittersweet. It's a smile that hides his feelings. Of course, racism gets to him, and he's touched that his teammates have his back, but they can fight on the pitch, not in the stands.

"Aaranya, if I had to stop every time some racist came at me, we'd never play." Maybe it's better to listen to Baylor. Baylor can still hear those assholes. He tries his best to block it out, but it's tough. He's barely a teenager. If these guys are being this cruel to a 14-year-old, what's gonna happen as he grows up? He stares at the shouting fans. Is he strong enough to handle this kind of abuse?

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Make sure to listen to Business Wars wherever you get your podcasts. From Wondery, this is Black History For Real, where we chronicle the stories of movers and shakers from black history all over the world. The stories will inspire you, educate you, and more often than not, leave you shaking your damn heads. I'm Francesca Ramsey. And I'm Conscious Lee.

Continuing our three-part series celebrating Afro-Latina icons, today's episode is about a football player so famous he only needed one name, Pele. He went from being a poor black kid in a neighborhood that barely had electricity to being one of the most famous people in the whole wide world. Even if he wasn't talking about race directly, he was a testament to black strength every single day.

This is episode two. The man we know as Pele is born on October 23rd, 1940 in Brazil. His dad, Dio Andinho, and his mom, Celeste, name him Edson after famous inventor Thomas Edison.

Electricity just arrived in their tiny rural village. Três Coracoas. It means "three hearts" in Portuguese. The village is small and rundown, and the house Edson grows up in is made of secondhand bricks. Even if the people of Três Coracoas don't have money, they have community. Everyone knows and looks out for each other.

Edson's dad loves playing football. When Dio and Dino holds a son for the first time, he whispers almost like a prayer. This one will be a great footballer. Growing up, Edson's dad is his hero. Dio and Dio plays for a football team in the village, but he barely gets paid anything. Only the best players make decent money, but Dio and Dino dreams one day it'll be him.

In 1944, Dio and Dino gets an amazing offer. If he moves the family to another town called Baru, he'll get a new job and get to play for Baru's team. It's an offer too good to refuse. Four-year-old Edson and the rest of the family move to Baru. Everyone's excited, but the excitement vanishes when they arrive. The jobs fall through. Then Dio and Dino injures his knee. Now he can't even play much football.

Ain't no escaping poverty in the new town. The family's barely getting by. Things are so bad, Edson gets a job shining shoes at a train station.

Dude ain't but six years old. But it ain't all trash. Sometimes he gets to work at the Arena Lusitania, the stadium where his dad plays. His dad's one of the few black players on the field. When football arrived in Brazil, it was a sport for the elite, a.k.a. white people. Black people might have been good. Hell, they might have been great. They wasn't welcome. And when they was, it got a little funky.

Back in the early 20th century, some Afro-Brazilian players straighten their hair and put rice powder on their skin, all to hide their black features. Not exactly a world that's ready for a kid like Pele.

It's really depressing to hear that black players had to disguise themselves in order to play. But it's also kind of funny because it's like, damn, the white people were that dumb. They saw an ashy person with those and they were like, yeah, that looks like a white guy. Yeah, sure. You know what?

I believe it. I believe that you are a white guy. Hey, sometimes you can be so racially illiterate that you just can't read and write race to save your life that you can let, you know what I'm saying, people get over on you. Because in my mind, too, it's like, of course, you know, where there's white people and black people, there is always people that can pass. But it's like Pele, you feel me, is dark skinned as hell. So I mean, my mind is like there are other dark skinned players as hell, like him, that's trying to like powder their faces. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. It's also just a thing that comes up in this like sports series that we when we when we covered sports recently, this idea that like the irony of like upholding white supremacy while also being like, we're the best. Oh.

Only when we keep y'all out of what it is that we're doing. Like we, y'all aren't, y'all aren't uncivilized and you're ugly and you're this and you're that. But like y'all really tell it on yourselves because you know the minute that we enter the game, we enter the arena, we gonna switch shit up.

We don't raise the bar. And so it's like the only way we can be the best is to keep y'all out of it. And the only thing I say is that they racially illiterate in this instance right here, because it's worth noting to, you know, I'm saying to people that are listening right now that Brazil has the biggest African population outside of Africa due to how great the Portuguese was and being able to transport enslaved people of African descent uniquely. So they already knew the shit show.

how great the physical skills and abilities and capabilities, like, you know what I'm saying? They knew how athletic it could get. So in my mind, I think you're right, Frankie. They was telling them they said, like, man, how can we keep them out? I seen if they can do it on the field. They ain't finna do it on this field. You know what I'm saying? No pun intended.

Edson loves watching his dad play football. To him, he's the best footballer in the world. One day, he wants to be as good as him. Every day after school, Edson plays with his friends. They're so poor they can't afford a ball, so they play with a sock stuffed with rags. For Edson and Dio and Nino, football is an escape from the poverty they live in.

Karl Marx talks about how religion is the opiate of the masses, and football is like a religion to these guys. It's not a literal escape, at least not yet, but it's a distraction at least. And it's fun, but Edson's mom tells him he's got to do something else with his life. He can't provide for his family with the average footballer's salary. Poverty's where real dreams go to die. So he dreams of being a pilot instead. He'll get to see the world and send money back home.

But the kid's got moves. His football skills are the talk of the town. Some of the boys at school start calling him Pele. Pele? Not 100% sure where the nickname came from, but he got a theory. His favorite player on his dad's team was a guy named Bile. And you couldn't pay him to get this man's name right. He called the guy Bile.

Just loud and wrong, but the name sticks to him. At first, Edson hates the name. It feels like they're teasing him, but eventually, he learns to love it. It's 1950. Dio and Dino, his teammates, and Pele are all cramped in a small, stuffy room at Pele's house. They're hovering around the radio, listening to the World Cup final. It's the first World Cup in over 12 years, and it's being played right here in Brazil.

Brazil's playing against Uruguay, and right now, the score is tied 1-1. As long as the score stays tied, Brazil will win the World Cup. Pele can feel the excitement of the screaming crowd through the radio.

Pele watches his dad closely. Dio and Dino's fists are clenched tight. He's staring at the radio like he can see the game. He's leaning forward, literally on the edge of his seat. But he's got a confident smile on his face. Like most Brazilians, Dio and Dino's confident his team will take home the gold. However, his confidence don't last that long.

Uruguay scores. They're up 2-1 and there's only 11 minutes left in the game. Belen notices the crowd's a lot quieter through the radio and the joy drains from his dad's face. It's okay. They still have time. You're right, son. But he don't look like he believe it. For the last 11 minutes of the game, Dio and Dino and his teammates listen in disappointed silence.

He prays, trying to grasp onto the little hope he's got left. But God ain't listening or she busy. You're great. Defeats Brazil 2-1. Pele watches his dad. The loss is too much for Dio and Dino. And on top of all the stress he feels trying to provide for his family, listening to football is his escape. But his country let him down and he's crying.

Pele is shocked and confused. His dad always told him that men don't cry. He wraps Dion Dino in a hug and makes him a promise. It's a promise that'll be nearly impossible for a poor black kid who can't even afford a football to keep. But he makes the promise anyway. One day, I'll win you a world cup.

Nine-year-old Pele and his friends make a football team, and he's the team's captain. Since the gang's got a lot of Brazilian pride, they call themselves September 7th, after the day Brazil got independence from Portugal. Pele spends years winning matches with the squad,

And there's an upside he didn't see coming. His sick football skills are enough to get young Pele a girlfriend. Here's how Pele tells it. In 1952, Pele and his girlfriend sit outside of their school. They're holding hands. Pele looks in her beautiful green eyes. He thinks he might love her. Her love notes are proof she feels the same way. They don't care that she's white, and Pele's definitely not, if only everyone else felt that way. Get away from my daughter.

Pele and his girlfriend jump. Her father suddenly appears and storms towards them. His face is red with anger. One of her love notes is clenched in his hand. Pele instinctively tries to protect his girlfriend, but her dad's much bigger, taller, and stronger. He shoves him to the ground. What the hell's wrong with you? Writing love letters to a black tramp like him? Pele watches, wide-eyed and helpless. He doesn't know what hurts more,

Watching his girlfriend get beaten or the hate thrown his way. Everyone in his schoolyard is watching. All this because he's black? Baylet runs home and cries. He can't stop replaying the moment in his head. It makes him start questioning all the nice things his friends and neighbors have said about him. Maybe he is nothing but a black tramp.

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In 1953, Pele's September 7th team changes their name to Amaricana, or Little America. They're so good, they win their league at Arena Lusitania, the same stadium where Pele watched his dad play. Pele is so skilled, he catches the attention of coach Waldemar de Brito. Waldemar is a former Brazil national player back from the 30s and the 40s. He coaches the Baru junior team, and he wants Pele to join.

His mom ain't thrilled. The brutal world of football was hard on her husband. She wants her son to focus on academics, not chase an impossible dream. But Baylet can't ignore the football pitches Cyrus on. He joins the team when he's just 11.

Baylor knows Waldemar is going to change his life. He'll follow him anywhere. And he does. In 1956, Baylor follows him to a new team, Santos. Waldemar tells the coach, this kid will be the best in the world. The coach listens and Baylor makes the team. But it ain't all easy. Baylor's lonely. He's playing with and against grown men, so he don't got much in common with them besides football.

And worst of all, Pele's homesick. His family don't have a phone, so he can't even call them. He's chasing his dreams, but it's all alone. It's 1956. 15-year-old Pele's on the field at Villa Belmiro, the stadium where the Santos team plays. His heart's pounding. Sweat stings his eyes. Pele lines up to take a penalty shot. It's the final of a local tournament. If Pele gets this shot, his team will win the title.

He takes a deep breath. This should be easy. He's done it hundreds of times before. But his mind is clouded. He misses his family. He's never been this far from them. It doesn't help that he feels insecure. Pele's used to being the best player on the pitch, but now he's surrounded by great players. He needs to prove himself and stand out. What good is he if he can't? Pele makes quick eye contact with Waldemar on the sidelines. He's standing next to the assistant coach, Big Sabu.

They both gave him a supportive nod, but somehow that only adds to weight on his shoulders. Finally, he runs at the ball. He's done this countless times. His foot connects and... The ball sails over the crossbar. Bayless' face falls. He missed. He looks back at his team. Disappointed faces everywhere. He hangs his head and leaves the pitch, defeated. That night, he packs his things and tries to sneak home.

But he gets caught by Big Sabu. Big Sabu gets what Pele's going through. He's seen other young players struggle. But he convinces Pele to stick around and give himself another chance. The kid can't reach his full potential if he runs away.

After talking with Big Sabu, Pele practices harder than ever before. He earns a new nickname, Gasolina. Daddy Yankee would be impressed. Pele's skills improve, and by the time he's 17, he's already one of the top scorers in his whole league. But Pele's got his sights set on something bigger, the 1958 World Cup coming up, and he wants to play for Brazil.

In 1958, Brazil's training a World Cup team. All the best players from across the country attend, even Pele. He really wants to start his position, but the competition's stiff. Most of the guys are much bigger and older than little Pele. It doesn't help that Pele injures his knee during the training session. But instead of thinking about the pain, Pele thinks about his father, the promise he made him.

He's got to deliver him a World Cup championship. And in 1958, it looks like Pele's going to get his chance. He's selected to join the team. The 1958 World Cup takes place in Sweden. It's Pele's first time on an airplane and his first time in Europe. Sweden's a pretty homogeneous country, so the folks over there are fascinated by Pele's dark skin.

Pele doesn't mind the attention, though. He's there with a specific goal in mind: winning his dad that World Cup. Pele's knee is still injured when the Cup starts, so he watches the first two Brazil games from the sidelines. It's not until their game against Wales that he really gets to shine. The climax of the game comes from Pele standing by Wales' goal. A teammate passes him the ball, and he bounces it off his chest. He juggles the ball up in the air before he touches the ground.

He dodges an opponent, then taps the ball on his toes. The sails pass to Wells' goalie and to the back of the net. Pele jumps for joy and the crowd goes wild. It's his first World Cup goal and the only goal in the game. It sends Brazil to the semifinals and the world's introduced to a young, new hotshot named Pele.

Brazil plays against France next. Now Pelé's in the zone. He scores three goals, a hat-trick, and Brazil beats France 5-2. It sends Brazil to the finals, and they're facing off against the host team, Sweden, on their home turf. The 1958 World Cup Finals opens with the roar of 50,000 people. The crowd is so loud, Pelé can barely think.

Fans doubt Brazil's chances against Sweden, and they specifically doubt Pelé. His performance against Wales is viewed as a fluke. Pelé hears reporters asking, "How could Brazil bring a 17-year-old to the World Cup finals?" Pelé shakes his head. He's going to show them why. But only four minutes into the game, Sweden scores. Brazil's rattled. It's the first time they've been behind in the entire tournament.

The ball's back in play. Vélez playing forward, so he's hovering near Sweden's goal. Just five minutes after Sweden scores, Vélez's teammate, Vava, scores a goal. Thirty minutes later, Vava scores again. Pelé claps for his teammates, but he wants a goal in the final two.

At halftime, Brazil's up 2-1, but there's still a lot of game to go. After halftime, Billy bounced back onto the field. He's energized. He's ready to get a goal so he can do his part to bring Brazil the trophy. We're 10 minutes into the second half.

Pele runs down the center of the field towards Sweden's goal. A teammate to his right is dribbling the ball down the field next to him. Just as Pele reaches the goal, his teammate sends a pass his way. Pele kicks the ball. The Swedish goalkeeper dives, his arms outstretched and straining. He misses. The ball soars into the net.

Hele leaps into the air, his fist raised in triumph. The rest of his team runs over and tackles him with hugs. He scored his first goal in a World Cup final, but it's not his last. By the end of the game, it's real clear Brazil's gonna win. Sweden got one more goal, but Brazil scores another one. Then, Hele puts the final nail in the coffin with one more goal during the stoppage time.

Pele's teammates lift him up on their shoulders. Pele cries. He's on top of the world. He feels so proud that he's proven himself to everyone, the world, the country, his father. He did it. He got the World Cup he promised, and he did it by age 17. But Pele is just getting started.

It's 1961, Pele's international star is growing and he's becoming a world famous icon. Fans always pack the stadiums to watch Pele play, but he ain't getting paid much money at all. When he's 21, a team from Italy gives him an attractive offer. They want to pay him half a million dollars to play for them. That'll be a little over $5 million today. It's more than 10 times what he's making in Santos. It's a tempting offer.

After all, the money would be helpful for his family. But how could he be off winning titles for some other country? Even though it's a generous offer, Pelé's got too much Brazilian pride to accept. He says no. The President of Brazil steps in to make sure the footballer's decision sticks. He declares Pelé a national treasure. Playing for another country would be illegal. It's a first for the country, and Pelé sees it as an honor.

The National Treasure title means more than any amount of money. This is also where he gets a new nickname: "Ole Ray," or "The King." And he did this all while being Black. Pele doesn't talk much about racial issues, and it's something he's sometimes criticized for. But to Pele, the best way to fight racists was with success. In the immortal words of Beyoncé, "The best revenge is your paper."

But the King ain't perfect though. In 1962, Belé stumbles. He's in Chile playing in the 1962 World Cup. For the past few years, Belé's playing schedule with Santos has been jam-packed. Santos wants to make as much money as they can off their new star, but it's starting to get torn. He's been feeling some pain and is growing from all the games, but his doctor told him there wasn't nothing to worry about. The first game went okay,

But Pele left the pitch feeling unusually tired. Now Brazil plays against Czechoslovakia. Pele's got the ball. He's in pain. He's ignoring it. The game's too important. He races towards the goal and kicks. It hits the post and rebounds. He's ready for it. But when he kicks it again, a sharp pain rips through Pele and he crumples to the ground. He's torn his thigh muscle.

His teammates rush over to him. The Czech players take a knee. Belé's in serious pain. He feels like he's letting everyone down. He wants to keep playing, but it's a bad idea. Reluctantly, he limps off the field. Belé watches his team play. It's bittersweet. He's proud of how well they're playing, but he wants to be out there too.

Brazil wins the 1962 World Cup too. Pele's happy Brazil's bringing home another championship, but they win without him. Maybe they don't need the king after all. Pele is in time for the 1966 World Cup. He's ready to prove how valuable he is to this team. He ain't the only one who knows he's valuable.

This year, the other country's team has a strategy. They gotta stop Pelé by any means necessary. Brazil is playing against Bulgaria first, Hungary, and finally Portugal. Every player only has eyes for the king. The players foul him again and again, kicking him, making his old injury flare up. They ain't even pretending like they're going after the ball.

And are they getting carded? No yellow? Not a single red? Turns out, Carden wasn't introduced until 1970. Maybe because of these games. But Belen's got no one to defend him. And the fouling works. Portugal ends up beating Brazil. Belen leaves the pitch furious. This ain't the beautiful game he came to know. Look, this was personal.

It brings back memories of all those times he was attacked for who he was. It's heartbreaking. And the whole experience makes Pele not want to play in the World Cup again. It's November 19, 1969. Pele's once again playing for Santos. He stands in front of the opposing team's goal, getting ready to make a penalty kick. The other team lines their players up, ready to guard. There's anticipation building in the crowd.

If Pele makes this goal, he's going to break a record. As Pele stands there, he can't help but think back to when he first joined Santos. That penalty kick he missed. The night he tried to sneak home. If the assistant coach hadn't stopped him, he might not be here right now. He might not have a chance at redemption. Nerves creep in. He scored a lot of goals, 999 of them to be exact.

He's had so many successes, but that missed penalty kick from years ago still haunts him. He clears his mind and runs at the ball. His foot connects and it hurtles through the air. The ball sails into the net. The crowd goes wild and rushes to field. Fairledge has scored his 1,000th goal. The fans lift him onto their shoulders and raise him to the sky.

Pele's elated. He feels like he's floating. His teammates rip his jersey off and replace it with a new one, with a new number: 1,000. Not many footballers have scored 1,000 goals, and definitely none as world-famous as Pele. He's writing his name in the football stars. In 1970, the World Cup comes around again. At first, Pele doesn't want to play. His experience in 1966 left a bad taste in his mouth.

But if he does play, he'll be one of the few footballers to play in four World Cups. Yeah, four. Pele can't resist that kind of record. So he agrees to play. This World Cup is different for a big reason. It's the first one that broadcasts some of the games live, in color, on TV. There's going to be over a million people watching Pele play. Brazil's first games against Czechoslovakia. That's the match Pele had to drop out of back in 1962.

This time, Pele scores a goal. He also scores four goals when Brazil plays against Czechoslovakia and Romania. After a few more wins, they're in the finals again, this time against Italy. In the match against Italy, Pele scores a goal off his forehead. Folks all over the world get to watch this man's mad skills live. Brazil wins the game 4-1. That's another World Cup for Pele.

That year, Pele's named the most famous person on the planet. He's above Elvis Presley, Barbra Streisand, Muhammad Ali, and Elizabeth Taylor. There's a survey that finds Pele's the globe's second most popular brand. He's ranked above every single other brand except for Coca-Cola.

Brazil's also had an economic boom. Brazilian bossa nova music gets popular and spreads across the globe. All these records fill Pele with pride. He's thrilled by all the Brazilian victories. It's October 2nd, 1974. Pele's on the field at Vila Belmiro, the stadium where he started playing with Santos back when he was 15. Now he's 34. He's given over 20 years of his life to this sport.

- Benley's been thinking about retiring for a long time. Whip-ball's cool, and he's got other interests like business. So when the ball comes sailing towards him, he makes his decision. Instead of bouncing it off his chest, he catches it. - At first, the other players are confused. So is the crowd. What's the world's greatest footballer doing grabbing the ball with his hands? But the realization creeps across the field and stands.

Pele takes the ball to the center of the field. Then he kneels down and stretches his arms out like a cross. He turns towards every section of the stands. Tears fall from countless eyes. It's clear to everyone what's happening. The king's retiring. In his autobiography, Pele explains this. He says, "I was honoring the crowd for the years they had honored me.

Pelé retires as the only three-time World Cup champion. He's one of the leading goal scorers of all time. And of course, he's officially a Brazilian national treasure.

Even though Pelé's done with football in Brazil, the world's not quite finished with him. In 1975, the North American Football League convinces Pelé to move to the U.S. They want to make football, or soccer, more popular here, and they know they need a major player. So Pelé joins the New York Cosmos. Pelé plays with the Cosmos for two years before he re-retires. He plays his last game against his old Santos team.

Game Draw is the biggest crowd ever for an American soccer game. Pele ends his career at 36, with more than 1,200 goals. But even in retirement, Pele helps young football players, giving them the kind of access he didn't have growing up. He holds soccer clinics around the world. In 1991, he becomes the worldwide Goodwill Ambassador for the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization.

On December 29th, 2022, Pele passes away due to complications from colon cancer. But his legacy still lives on. It's because of Pele that soccer is such a popular sport among kids in the U.S. For his whole life, Pele was determined to prove himself. He wanted to prove to everyone who doubted him that they were wrong. Maybe they doubted because of his age, his height, his skin color, where he came from.

But Pele led by example. For him, the only way to prove himself was to be the best football player in the world. And he was.

If you like Black History for Real, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.

This is episode two of our three-part series on Afro-Latino icons. We used multiple sources when researching our stories, including the New York Times, FIFA.com, and Pele, the Netflix documentary. And Pele, the autobiography, was particularly helpful. A note, our scenes contain reenactments and dramatized details for narrative cohesiveness. Black History for Real is hosted by me, Francesca Ramsey. And me, Conscious Lee. Black History for Real is a production of Wondery.

This episode was written by Austin S. Harris. Sound design by Greg Schweitzer. The theme song is by Terrace Martin. Fact-checking by Meredith Clark. Lindsey Gomez is the development producer. The coordinating producer is Taylor Sniffen. Nick Ryan is our senior managing producer.

Our associate producer is Sonya May. Matt Gant and Morgan Givens are our senior producers. The executive producers for Wondery are Marsha Louis, Aaron O'Flaherty, and Candace Mariquez-Reyne.