Ep. 02 - Are You Lonely?
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Hi guys, it's Nora. If you like what we've done here on Terrible Thanks for Asking, you might want to check out our YouTube channel. We have two new videos going up every week over at youtube.com slash at feelings and co that's feelings and co there's a link to it in our show description. So see over on YouTube, if that's what you're into, what a sales gal I am.

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by American Express. Um, how are you? Most of us say fine or good, but obviously it's not always fine, and sometimes it's not even that good. This is a podcast that gives people the space to be honest about how they really feel. It's a place to talk about life, the good, the bad, the awkward, the complicated. I'm Nora McInerney, and this is Thanks for Asking.

If you're lonely, you're not alone. That sentence barely makes sense, but we'll get into it. I'm Nora McInerney, and this is Thanks for Asking, a call-in show about what matters to you. It's 2025, and we have more ways than ever to connect with other people. I can DM someone on the other end of the world. Side of the world, side of the world.

Same thing. You can see what an ex-boyfriend does for a living on LinkedIn, even if you haven't seen him in 10 years. You can keep in touch with people that you would have naturally lost touch with. You can keep peering into their digital lives, even if you haven't seen each other since eighth grade graduation. We have all of these ways to connect and we are still very, very lonely. Maybe you have felt that way. Maybe you feel that way now. I definitely have and so have today's

callers. And if you feel lonely, if you have felt lonely, it's not a personal failing on your part. Humans are built for collective societies. And now we live in suburbs with no sidewalks or single family homes with fenced backyards, or we live in a densely populated urban place where you still don't really get a lot of meaningful human interaction. We work

More than ever, and most of us are barely keeping our heads above water. So it is hard to muster the energy to go out or meet up or have someone over. And it's even harder to schedule because everyone is so busy. And we are very focused on our individual survival. And of course we are because you've seen the world. You live here, you know it's not great. You might have limitations that make it hard

or make it impossible to consistently engage with or foster relationships. And I'm not saying that our online relationships don't count.

I have made some of my best friends on the internet. I actually do feel deeply connected to the world through many of you. But if these digital relationships were truly a replacement for human connection and interaction, then we wouldn't be in what many experts are calling and have been calling for quite some time now, a loneliness epidemic. So it does feel strange to say, but if you're lonely,

you're not alone. A lot of us are in many different ways and it's not as simple as, oh, you're either lonely or you're not. There are so many ways to feel loneliness. You can be lonely in a room full of people and there are way more ways to experience loneliness than what we talked about today. I actually messed up two of the recordings, so apologies to those callers. We had great talks that you guys would have really loved and I didn't hit the record button, but when I opened up

spots to talk about loneliness they filled faster than any other spot so i knew that this had to be our second episode so here we go hi is this jen

It is. Hi, Nora. How are you? Hi, it's Nora. I just called you Jen. You're Jennifer. No, that's what everybody calls me. Okay. That's perfect. It's totally normal. Okay. I'm glad to hear that because I'm married to a Matthew and people immediately call him Matt and he's like, okay. Right. Right. Right. Right.

Okie dokie. Okie dokie. It's a little weird if somebody immediately goes to Jenny because I haven't been that since I was about 16, but you know. Calling a Jennifer Jenny without consent is so inappropriate. It's so intimate. Yeah. Jen. Jen. If I called you Jenny, I would have felt odd. Right. That would be weird. Yeah. And I have met somebody who I knew socially as a Jennifer who then...

Was like, you can call me Jenny. And I was like, I don't know if I can. You've been Jennifer'd in my mind. Right. It's the Jennifer conundrum. Yeah. Yeah. It really is. It really is. I love that name though. You know, that's not a name that you hear very often. I mean, I mean now, okay. Growing up there were a million of us. Now that, okay, let me start over. You're not, when's the last time you saw a child named Jennifer?

That's very true. I think it's because there were probably so many of us. I think so. I think so. That people stopped. I think so. Which was necessary, I think. Yeah. I think there were six in my elementary school and three of us were in one grade. And this was when classes were small. And you had to be like, oh, I'm actually Jennifer H. I'm Jennifer. Yep. Man. And now that's what Norah's are.

Now Nora might be the Jennifer of this generation. I'm projecting a little bit. I'm exaggerating a little bit. Anyways, we're talking about loneliness today, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you and I had started a conversation about my film industry life. Yeah. And the part we did not get to is that I'm not doing that anymore. So I'm one of those people that...

woke up one day sick and never got better which I could never have comprehended what life with a chronic illness meant until I got one um and like my entire life just disappeared in a day and it's the craziest thing literally in a day yeah I was completely healthy on January 3rd 22 and

I worked out for like two hours that day. I was getting in shape. I was, things were good. You, you truly were a new year, new me energy. You said, you said it's January 3rd. I'm going to work out for two hours. Thank you.

Thanks for Asking is a podcast about life, about all kinds of things. We take listener calls. We read books. We do all kinds of stuff because life is complicated and so are people. You can get full episodes of Thanks for Asking on my sub stack, which is linked in the description. Well, it was actually February 3rd. Oh, February. I had like, I'd had about two to three months in between film projects. So I was really, you know, using that time.

And I had some minor oral surgery and that's literally the last day I was healthy. You know, eventually got diagnosed with a chronic illness that you treat symptoms for. There's no cure. There's technically no cure.

treatment that's primary label use in terms of medications, which is super fun. And there's like no specialists in most of the country. So yeah, I mean, it's just the craziest thing. And like my career was gone. My hobbies were gone within years.

10 months, I realized that I was going to have to, after having left a 20 year marriage, been on my own, bought my own place for a total of three years at that point, I realized I would have to take in a roommate in my late forties. And yeah, it's just, it's totally isolating when all you can do is manage your health and, and

for the most part, leaving the house is for medical appointments. And you have very, very, very, very little energy left for anything social, even if it's just talking to people on the phone. I mean, there's days that I can't even do that. And it's just been, it's been really lonely. Yeah. Yeah. I can hear that. And I'm glad that you felt okay enough to call today and share that. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, I think something that I've realized is that because I realized there was simply no way for me to understand what living with an illness, a chronic illness is like until I developed it. I think it's really important that those of us who are dealing with it

be willing to share as much as possible so that the people that are in our lives or may someday encounter someone dealing with this can try to have a sense of what we're dealing with. Because even my family, my parents try really hard, but they just can't understand because it's not something, it's not an experience they've lived. Tell me why. You know, I have friends who try really hard, but...

It's just not something where you can put yourself in their shoes until you're really in it. Yeah. Hi, it's Nora with a little bit of an update. Terrible Thanks for Asking is on an indefinite hiatus, which means that for the foreseeable future, you won't see new episodes in the main feed. But if you want to support the work that we've done, get access to our entire back catalog with no ads, you can

You can join us on Patreon at patreon.com slash ttfa or on Apple+. We are still making two episodes a month for subscribers, which is a sustainable workload for us emotionally and financially.

There are still plenty of episodes here for free on the main feed, so no pressure. But if you want to join a community of Terribles, come over to Patreon. And if you just want more Terrible, join on Apple+.

Hi guys, it's Nora. If you like what we've done here on Terrible Things for Asking, you might want to check out our YouTube channel. We have two new videos going up every week over at youtube.com slash at feelings and co. That's feelings and co. There's a link to it in our show description. So see over on YouTube if that's what you're into. What a sales gal I am.

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Will you put us in your shoes? Sure. So here's today so far. Woke up, struggled to get out of bed because I usually feel really, really awful in the morning, but have to get up because I have three fur babies and they demand food very loudly. I spent the next three hours

trying to get a bowl of cereal eaten in between receiving and making calls to set up some doctor's appointments and move some doctor's appointments, talk to last year's insurance company that owes me a bunch of money, talk to this year's insurance company to try to avoid the same situation so that they don't end up owing me a bunch of money. I finally got the little cereal eaten by like about 1030.

So it was nice and gooey at that point. It was nice. Oh, yeah. It was really, that crunchy raisin bran was just total mush. And then finally sat down, went and made sure there were no emails I needed to deal with and stopped for a second. And the minute I stopped, all of a sudden I got super nauseous, which was one of the fun things that happens to me out of the blue. So it's like race for the meds, race for the crackers.

And that got me to about here. I have yet to brush my teeth, wash my face, any of that. The rest of the afternoon, I will be really just resting and then getting a shower, which is an adventure in and of itself, because what I have, you are more symptomatic when you're vertical and even more symptomatic when you have your hands over your head for any reason.

So, um, most of us have been using shower chairs, which is really fun when you're not, you know, already in your eighties can use a shower chair. Uh, so, you know, that'll be the shower adventure. And then of course, drying your hair this time, you're not so bad because it's cooler in the summer. I can't even do it. Yeah. Um, and then, you know, goggle in and the creeks don't rise. I am supposed to go leave the house for something non-medical tonight. Yeah.

What are you going to do? So I work part-time now at the stage door of one of our performance venues here in town. And the Dear Evan Hansen tour is here for two days. I

The last time it was here, I was actually working in the wardrobe, in the costume department while they were here. That's something that I had been trying to do that I recently just had to say my body cannot handle. So I'm actually going to see this. Now, the caveat is that I have to be able to get out of the house. Yeah. The friend that I'm going with, we tried to go see something back in November and throughout the day.

I've kind of developed, it's not quite social anxiety and it's not quite agoraphobia, but there's a lot of anxiety now when I'm leaving the house for something that's a bit of an unknown. Yeah, I get that. In my brain, in my logical brain, this isn't really an unknown. I work at the study. I know what parking's like. I know all the things. Right.

But the last time we tried to do this, the first time we tried to do it back for a show in November, I had a panic attack and had to say I can't go. So, you know, today I'm feeling better and I'm feeling good about it. And, you know, I really, really do want to see this show. I've worked it and, you know, I know it from backstage, but very different. And I am a musical theater nerd. So, yeah.

I'm feeling good about it right now, but it's a battle. It really is. And there were about five or six other things I needed to do or work on today that will not be happening. And that's every day. Every day the things on the list don't get done unless they are truly time sensitive. And it's such...

It's such an exercise in learning to give yourself grace, especially if you're a type A person like I am. Learning to just listen to what my body is telling me has been really, really hard because I want to get the projects and I want to do all the things. And I can't anymore. And that's a really hard pill to swallow. Yeah.

I, it really is. I would have a hard time swallowing that pill too. And I'm actually really good at swallowing pills physically. I barely need water. I can get it. I can get anything down. It's true, a true blessing. That's, that's one, that's a blessing in my life. But I think part of the, I mean, to me, one of the things that feels so hard about this too, is that there wasn't an on-ramp.

it to it, you know, it wasn't like this gradual thing. And I can tell from, you know, we've had a couple interactions over, over the years and like, you do have like, you do have type A energy. You have, you have kind of life at the party energy. You have, she planned the party energy. Right. And so I can imagine that

When your life changes that much and you don't even have time to truly reckon with like these, you know, these seismic changes and your identity that it would be hard for other people to, to try to figure out and learn who you are while you're trying to do it. And that does feel so lonely. Yeah.

Yeah. And I mean, there's a big part of it is that for me, at least I've, I've isolated myself a bit because it just got too hard to try to go do things. Like I used to do theater and it got so hard going to see things by the theater companies I used to be on stage with and a not being on stage.

And B, having people ask me how I'm doing. I hate being asked how I'm doing because I either say I'm fine, which is a just ludicrous lie. Or if I try to be honest, I pretty much usually burst into tears. Yeah. So you just, you stop even wanting to put yourself in that situation. Yeah.

And people mean well. It's not like they're trying to upset me, but it just does. So I've kind of started even avoiding things. Unless it's people who have truly got the best understanding of what I'm dealing with that they can't.

And yeah, it's, and, and it's the whole thing. I mean, it's still, I'm, I'm almost at the three year anniversary and the grief is just as strong right now as it was when it all started.

for people who are, I know you can relate to. Yeah. It's like, you kind of want it to just be like, okay, now can I be done with that feeling now? Right. You know, right. Can be done with that feeling. And yeah. And I did, that is grief too. That is grief. And I, you know, I've been saying grief more than just death for many years. Grief is grief is more than just dying people. Like there's a lot to grieve in this world and you will grieve a lot of things in this world. If you dare to, uh,

be a person and have experiences and have things and people that you care about. And it's, it's simply, it simply sucks is what I want to say. And I also, you know, I also think it's so easy for us to

kind of forget that about people that we care about or people that we meet that like, oh, I might not have the full picture. And I mean, I'm assuming there are people in your life, Jen, who like they would hear this and be like, I didn't know Jen was lonely. Why is Jen lonely? Right, right.

And I'm now thinking about people in my life who maybe I haven't talked to recently, or maybe I haven't gone deep with, or maybe just haven't seen socially or anything who I know are in kind of, you know, a, a long haul situation, a long haul situation. And not like you need another job because you spent several hours on the phone with insurance companies, which if there is a, a whole nother topic,

Is that health insurance is a scam and it is health insurance is a scam. How on earth am I paying thousands of dollars a month for the privilege of being told by a random person in a cubicle who has not met me or my doctor that actually, no, I don't need the thing that I already, I already paid for it. Like, what are you doing? I already paid for it. What are we doing here? That's a rant for a different time, but to give you another task, like for people who are listening, who are,

are like, oh God, like, did I, am I making, am I contributing to the loneliness of a person I care about? What has been helpful to you? Like what is, what has lightened the load of this loneliness? What has made you feel more connected to the world?

So one of the biggest things that's helped me is finding a community of people who are dealing with the same thing. I was really lucky in a sense that very, very early on when it was just suspected what I had, a friend of mine said, okay, so my parents,

My brother's ex-girlfriend has this thing called POTS, which is what I have. And there was this organization and I'll get the name of it. I don't know why she was still in touch with this person, but she was. If you are still friends with your brother's ex-girlfriend, that says something about that woman. That's a powerful bond. And I love it. And if one of my ex-boyfriend's sisters sees or hears this, I still think about you and I hope you're doing well.

Yeah, so she was able to give me the name of the main nonprofit that actually is like the leader even in research in this area, which is another topic for another day. Since there's

pre-COVID enough to do four to six million of us in the US. It's probably doubled since, but you know, the nonprofit funds more research than the NIH. NIH, if you're listening. They are. They're literally listening. They're some of our biggest fans, I believe. Yeah. But they do a phenomenal job of providing opportunities for people to connect. So they actually have

groups on Facebook for every single state, um, different, you know, subgroups, caregivers, teams outside the U S so many groups that you can connect in. And then most of those groups have virtual and some have in-person support groups. So pretty early on, I, I got into one of those support groups and, um,

It's just the connecting with people who just get it that you don't have to explain it to is so invaluable. It's just been...

It's like for that two hours, once a month, the weight gets lifted because, you know, you can just talk about stuff without having to backtrack and explain 10 other things first. And you know that everybody who's on that Zoom understands and is there to listen and support you. That's been incredibly important. Yeah. It's so important to have people who

are willing to listen to you and believe you and not pivot directly into trying to sell you essential oils. Yes, very true. I also was able to find a really, really good therapist who has a decent number of chronic illness type patients. And she has

worked with me a lot on learning how to reach out, which is not something I have ever been good at. Learning to ask for help, learning to say I'm not okay. That is very much still a work in progress. Yeah. But I'm getting there. And there are still, it's a very small group of friends that I have now. Yeah.

But I've learned to be better about reaching out when I know I'm not okay and just saying, hey, help. Can you just come over today? Or do you have time to just talk about whatever? And that's a skill that I really have had to...

to work on and will continue to have to work on. And I hate it for her, but one of those friends actually developed some serious health issues.

that she's still dealing with after a year. And, you know, it's a blessing in disguise that I've been able to help her now navigate this whole change in her world. And so many times she said to me, I just, I didn't really get it. I thought I did, but I didn't. And so having those, you know, finding those people who truly can understand it

is important. And for me, finding ways to help other people navigate this has been really good for me. And it uses some of that loneliness just because I know I'm, even if it's just a tiny little thing, even if it's a HIV factor or just whatever it is, it gives me back a sense of being useful that I've really lost and

a sense of purpose that I've lost. And that's helped a lot too.

That's beautiful. Well, Jen, thank you for calling us. Yeah. I hope you get to Dear Evan Hansen tonight. Please keep us updated. Text the phone line if you make it or if you don't, either is fine. But I really hope you make it and be nice to yourself. And what a gift to like you mentioned, like being able to help a friend. And I think sometimes when it's been really hard for

me to ask for help. I'm like, but I feel so good when I help someone else. Like, yeah, you know, it feels good to be able, it's like an honor to be able to do that for people. And at least everything you're going through feels like it's, there's a purpose for a moment. Yeah. Yeah. We're purpose, purpose-driven creatures. Um, all right. Have a day. I'm not going to make you, it doesn't have to be a good one. Just go have a day. Thank you for making my day better and we'll talk soon.

I appreciate you so much. Bye. That was a little, that's a little excerpt from thanks for asking. If you want full episodes, audio and video, you can go to the link in our description. Special thanks to our supporting producers over on Substack. That's Melody Swinford, Erin Glan, Amy Gabriel, Gabrielle, please let me know. Lauren Hannah, Caroline Moss, Sarah David, Ella. Oh gosh, Ella. I, I,

I think part of your last name is in Cyrillic in this export. I'm going to have to email you.

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Hi guys, it's Nora. If you like what we've done here on Terrible Thanks for Asking, you might want to check out our YouTube channel. We have two new videos going up every week over at youtube.com slash at feelings and co that's feelings and co there's a link to it in our show description. So see over on YouTube, if that's what you're into, what a sales gal I am.