There’s Dog Years, and Then There’s Queer Years
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I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors.

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Greetings, sisters, ladies. We are working overtime this week, aren't we? We are. Back, back, back again. Back again. We are here twice this week. Like we never left. I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Saeed Jones. And I'm Zach Stafford. And you're listening to Vibe Check. Vibe Check.

I want to just say greetings, earthlings, because all I can think about this week is aliens. Girl, they're coming for us. Well, before we get to more alien chats, let's tell you what we're actually talking about this episode, because the aliens aren't actually real, but there are real things happening in this world, especially in East Palestine or Palestine, Ohio, which have different pronunciations depending on where you live, which we are going to explain and break down after that news finally started breaking over the weekend. And

And then also, in the spirit of the season, we are going to give a bit of heartbreak advice to one of our listeners who really touched us. And I think we have a lot to say and share with this person. But before we get into all of that, how are we all feeling? Sam, how you doing?

In the moment right now, I'm feeling good because in my Peloton class this morning, they played the unedited WAP for part of the ride. Who played the unedited WAP? Don't say Cody. No, girl. I'll tell you later. Okay. Just to check. But besides that, I'm just, I mean, as we've mentioned, I'm reeling over these...

unidentified flying whatevers. I think they've said don't call them UFOs, but they're freaking me out. High-velocity objects. Sure. That's the term we're using. Sure. Them space niggas. It was bound to happen eventually. Not aliens being black. What's got me shook the most is

It's like just the comedic response from the White House on more than one occasion. At this point, a White House spokesperson has said, no, no, no, don't worry. It's not aliens. We're sure you want to know how to get Americans to worry about aliens. Have a government official say, don't worry about aliens. I'm just like, who is in charge of comms right now? Because that is not helping. So my vibe is just like Biden and them. Please say the right thing. That's my vibe.

Yeah. That's fair. Yeah, that's fair. I'm also like living for the entertainment of this because if they're arriving, I have really taken to heart what Saeed said about nuclear war. You know, if you're going to die, it's just kind of over. It's a moot point. It's a moot point. I truly do not actually know how to deal with aliens and I'm just going to learn in real time or die trying. So, you know, it's just, I'm over it. I feel like when it comes to something like

catastrophe, which is what we talked about last time, or aliens. I'm like, your death in that instance is none of your business. You won't even be here. Your death in that situation ain't got shit to do with you. So just go on about your day. Let it happen. Well, Saeed, how are you feeling? You're less existential about these things than we are.

I am decidedly less existential about. It's one of the few things that I'm not existential about. I'm cool. You know, it was interesting. Obviously, we did our very special Rihanna episode over the weekend. And that was really fun. I'm proud of us, may I say? I'm proud of us for, you know, getting it together and all that kind of stuff. And thank you to Chantel and Nora, our producers. You know, it's a team effort. And, you know, working on the weekend. But also, it's just...

It's really a trip now. I was having lunch yesterday down the street from my apartment and two – I think they were gay – two gay guys sat down next to me and they were having lunch and they were watching the halftime on their phone. And it was this commentary over whether they thought she was working hard enough or not.

or not. And I've heard that from a lot of people. People are like, I felt like she held back or didn't give enough. And even, you know, some people have gone so far as to say, even if she is pregnant, well, when Beyonce was pregnant, I mean, it's just, it's this really, you know, it's kind of like,

You can never know what someone is thinking. You can make assumptions. But you also – like, I have no idea what's going on in another person's body. And certainly as a person without a uterus, I have no idea what's a reasonable – you know, I just – I enjoyed the show. I thought it was great. And I also thought it was very in line with Rihanna's performance style. Yeah.

what are we, you know what I mean? So it's just, it's just been a little weird. It's been a little weird watching that. You hit the nail on the head. Someone stopped me on the street today, leaving the gym to talk about this because they were feeling very conflicted and they knew we had done an episode. And I said to him personally, when have we ever thought of Rihanna as a Beyonce level dancers?

Like, this is what we're all expecting. She would tell you that ain't me. She's never been like, girl, I can dance my ass off. No, she said, I'm here for a good time, not a long time. And I'm having the best time right now. And I'm high, maybe. I mean, I don't know what she was doing on that stage. But typically, she gets a little puff-up pass, does a performance, and leaves. That's it. This is the thing about Rihanna that always works for me. Like, she resonates with me so much because she feels extremely relatable. She's doing dances I could do. She's singing all the songs that I've been singing for 10 years. Mm-hmm.

You know, like it feels accessible in a way that some of the other divas do not to me. And I like that. I also think, as we say in the episode, like the beauty of Rihanna is an almost effortless performance of her power. That's the point. So celebrate that. Also, the Teletubbies.

So cute. I love them. I love those white, tell-a-tell-a-double-dancers. And another thing, and again, you know, I think someone's already lost me the moment they start trying to compare another woman to another woman. Like, you know what I mean? You've already kind of lost the game. But I always think about in the Homecoming documentary, Beyonce says, after putting on this performance, after giving birth, she says, I'll never do that again. So I'm like, even if you've...

jumped, you know, off of logic and decided to compare one performer to Beyonce. I'm like, Beyonce has said, you know, that was cute, but I wouldn't recommend it basically. So I also feel like Rihanna models a mode of personal sustainability that I want to mirror. She sustains herself by protecting herself and like pacing herself. I admire that. That's goals. She's going to do enough to be enough, but she's not killing herself for us.

Good for you, girl. Good for you. And you know what? Her not killing herself for us, even though I think she did. She did incredible work out there. But she created space for a supernova that people are finally taking notice of. And that is the Justina Miles, the interpreter of the show, which we forgot to mention. I got to work with three years ago when I met her. Okay.

thought you're a star. Like this is, she's been doing this kind of interpretive ASL dancing for years on TikTok and Instagram. And she's been like bubbling, not gone super, super viral, but she's always floating, floating around. And she's from Philly. And I was working on an event in Philly. And she just is such a wonderful person. And to see, like, I think overnight she got a hundred thousand followers while Davis is tweeting about her. It's just like, it's really something to see. And I think Rihanna, I have faith that that team saw her and like the ethos

her and thought we can really bring light to her because she really has blown up overnight. She did it. I loved it. Zach, how are you feeling? I have thought about ways to ingratiate myself to the aliens all week as I've been watching TikTok.

What is the number one way to ingratiate yourself to the aliens? Earth is hell. Earth is hell. Yeah. Oh. Get me off this hell plane. I also will lovingly drag Steven Spielberg's E.T. I'll be like, that wasn't great representation. I know. Awful. I get it. As a black queer person, I understand. Holding up a little, one of those traveling speaker boxes and playing like Beyonce's America Has a Problem. Yes. Because one...

Because no one can hear that song and not get their lives. And I believe that is true throughout the galaxy. But also it's like, it has a problem. Like, we're not arguing with you. Alien Superstar. You got to play Alien Superstar. Come on. Beyonce knew. Beyonce knew. Beyonce knew.

All right. Well, before we get into the episode, we want to thank all of you who sent us fan mail and reached out to us on social media. We love hearing from all of y'all. Keep it coming at vibecheckatstitcher.com. But okay, Hoo Child, a lot's going on. Let's jump in, shall we? Let's do it. Let's do it.

All right, we're going to start this week with a truly troubling story out of Ohio. Saeed is in that state, so I'm going to pass the mic to him as soon as I can set up some key facts. You've seen by now, you've heard by now that on February 3rd, around 9 p.m., about 50 train cars on a Norfolk Southern train slid off the rails in East Palestine, Ohio. East Palestine is about 50 miles northwest of Pittsburgh, and its population is about 4,700.

The photos and the video are crazy. These train cars had some very strong and dangerous chemicals on board, chemicals with fumes that can be deadly to humans in high doses. And after this derailment, there was an explosion in this cloud of dark smoke that billowed for miles just there in the area. There was a fire, and then there was another controlled burn to get rid of these fumes.

But the aftermath is still happening. So far, about 2,000 people have had to evacuate their homes at least. There are several investigations into how safe the area is right now. The EPA says hazardous materials are still being released into the environment out there. And from what we can see and hear on the scene, it's bad. I'm going to quote the New York Times right now. They said, quote, some residents said that fish and frogs were dying in local streams.

Some shared images of dead animals or said they smelled chemical odors around town. Many residents have complained about headaches and feeling sick since the derailment. And lots of folks are not sure when they can go back home. In the midst of that crisis, there are questions about how officials are handling this.

A reporter was arrested last week after being accused of being too loud at a press conference the governor of Ohio was holding on the catastrophe. He was charged with disorderly conduct and criminal trespassing just for doing his job. And the company that owns these trains, Norfolk Southern, they have a very interesting record. They are one of the corporate funders of the so-called cop city that's being built in Atlanta.

They're already being sued by East Palestine residents to make sure they cover costs tied to recovery. And the first pledge they made to deal with all of this was only $25,000. That's it. It boggles the mind. There's so much to unpack here, but I want to start by just asking Saeed, why?

What is it like out there? You're in the state. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, rattled, concerned, heartbroken. Something that might be helpful to consider is this region. This part of Ohio is really where Appalachia starts, where West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Ohio come together. So think about the history of Appalachia. Think about the history of mining in this country, what it's done to that region in particular. Think about the fact that that part of the state, it's close.

Closer, I would argue, I think, to Cleveland, Ohio than it is to me here in Columbus. And I draw attention to Cleveland, Ohio, because that's where we get to the Cuyahoga River, which in the 60s was famously on fire all the time, a really another famous, infamous moment of environmental destruction in our country's history. So I'm just saying that context to like, think about what it means to, we talk about

intergenerational trauma often. But that's also true for regions, for where people live. And so think about at this point, there are people there where multiple generations of families have been through these kind of disasters.

In terms of what people are feeling, I wanted to go straight to what I am hearing and seeing from residents in the area. I'm not gonna try to speak for them. An excellent article that we can link to in the New Republic by Prim Thakur, he spoke to so many residents. And I just want to go to two people in particular. And I gotta tell you, by the time I was done reading their stories, my hands were shaking. So there's the context.

Amanda Greathouse told the New Republic that she and her family evacuated within one hour of the incident and did not return until February 10th to get important documents like IDs, you know, that kind of stuff that you really need. They said just being in their home, their eyes were burning, sore throats, rashes, migraines immediately.

The next day, they waited in line for four hours at Norfolk Southern's Family Assistance Center to get the—they're giving these like $1,000 inconvenience checks. And just do the math. That's all. That's all. Do the math. Think about you, your partner, your children, your pets. Wow.

Gas, hotel, food. The language. Inconvenience. Yeah, inconvenience fee. Wow. For something that you might be dealing with for decades. Okay, so they wait in line for four hours for this $1,000 check. Y'all get ready. They were told by Norfolk Southern that they didn't have enough documents.

So this family had to go back to their home to get the documents and left with renewed symptoms. That's one family. That's Amanda Greathouse and her family. Another example, another resident who lived near the crash site is named Chelsea Simpson. She suffered a sore throat. Her eight-month-old baby suffered respiratory issues. They had to go to urgent care. They gave her an antibiotic. They gave the baby a steroid.

After Simpson visited her home for 10 minutes a few days ago, her eyes were bloodshot and burning. She was told by the company that she would receive reimbursements for expense receipts but would not qualify for that $1,000 inconvenience check despite being within one mile of the evacuation zone. I mean, again, this is just two families. Yeah, just hearing you talk about that, I can't help but compare that

to the response that business owners got during the pandemic. Remember when Joe Biden was throwing money at them faster than they could absorb it? Remember that? If you even claimed to be a business owner, tens of thousands of dollars at least went to you. People were getting the checks and then freaking out because they were like, I don't even, how am I supposed to spend this? What am I supposed to do? Meanwhile, you've got working class people who are clearly in a crisis

having to struggle and beg for a $1,000 check. The math ain't mathing. No, it's not mathing. And it's also, you know, we could get into the details around, is this being reported enough? Is the media covering up? There's been a lot of allegations being thrown around. But I think at the end of the day, what I connect the dots here is that a lot of residents have said, we feel like there's not enough attention on us about this. And there isn't. There's not enough resources going their way. We're not talking about it enough on the front pages of newspapers. Enough, I think there could be more.

But also we have evidence in that Secretary Pete Buttigieg took 10 days, according to CBS, to finally make a comment on something that was specifically about transportation. In an area of the country, this town is very close to South Bend, Indiana. I think it's only like a two-hour drive from where he's from. That's a good point. So it's very close to him. And I know that he always feels that he's getting attacked because of a thousand reasons.

But this is literally in the area of the world in which he grew up as a politician, as a young person. And he hasn't swooped in to do much until just today or yesterday giving a statement. And it just says we're monitoring. And I just think because these are low-income people, we hear this a lot within climate change activism, is that there would be no climate issues without racism, without classism. And this is a great example of that.

The reason why we're not seeing a rush to deal with this is that it's not a, you know, really. They're not rich. They're not rich. If this happened in Beverly Hills, baby. Oh my God. Would be, there are no trains in Beverly Hills. Literally. There's a reason for that. Literally. So there's like a big structural problem. Yeah. And the lack of attention is really showing kind of these systemic problems we all live within. Well, and when you talk about structural problems, one of the things that I've been reading about this week about this story is,

the systemic lack of oversight over companies like Norfolk Southern. There's some really good reporting out from several outlets, including levernews.com. But they found that for years, this company has been fighting regulations that would better regulate the transport of hazardous materials like those that burned up last week. They were fighting regulations that would better maintain the brakes on these trains. And the brake failure caused this derailment.

And in the midst of all of that, they also have been tightening down on staff numbers, which led some workers to say, we don't have enough people working these trains to keep them safe.

So at every turn for the last decade plus, companies like Norfolk have been fighting the very rules that would have prevented this. And the lack of oversight from the federal government and the state government is also looming large in all of this. This could have been prevented. Absolutely. To get into the politics of this, which I would say –

are complicated. This is not a red state, blue state binary if you really are paying attention. But one thing I want to pay attention to is the way in which the mythic white working class voter in the downtrodden town, we know that narrative. The way that archetype, more so than the reality of these people, and that's what I'm trying to get to, not the people but the archetype of them, is weaponized against

Black queer people, for example, come election time is weaponized against immigrants, is weaponized against things like healthcare. And then when push comes to shove and the cameras go away and the campaign is over, well, I'm like, forget about the archetype of the white working class. Let's talk about the actual people there because you aren't serving these people that you've been using to

as a rhetorical cudgel against the rest of us. It's so pointed, so it's interesting to see the narratives of like, well, how did those people over there vote? And I'm like, you're missing the point. The point is everyone is getting hurt. Everyone is getting hurt no matter who they voted for. And frankly, the federal government has a lot of control over trains. So it's not so easy to be like, well, we have a Republican governor here. There's a lot going on that people are missing. This is the thing.

When people in an abstract way kind of say, well, we should defund the government and lower everyone's taxes and cut regulations. You know what those taxes and regulations do? This is it. Speak to it. They prevent these kind of accidents. It's not sexy. It's not fun. But the government has people that make sure this shit doesn't happen.

And they need to be supported. And I think that should be a thing in moments like this where supporters of either party can say, I don't know, we might need more of that. We might need more of that. Yeah. And it's really striking. And thank you, Zach, because I hadn't connected the dot. You're right. You know, the way he acts, one could forget he's from South Bend, Indiana. I mean, 100. But also, I mean, think about Biden's.

Think about like – I'm interested in like kind of career campaign mythology, right? And the way that when push comes to shove, someone like Biden works really hard to align himself with labor movements, with unions. And certainly from Pennsylvania, he's always like, I'm just Joe down the street. These are the people that Joe Biden always says that he's connected with. Another example, you'll remember that in this past election, J.D. Vance. Definitely.

won the new senator seat. Now we have a great senator here, Senator Sherrod Brown, a veteran senator. Sherrod. He's down with the people. Sherrod. Sherrod, excuse me. Sherrod. And during Black History Month, no less. I am so sorry, Sherrod.

Brown. Brother Sherrod. He's great. He's great. And now we have J.D. Vance, which is just like a total embarrassment. But what I was thinking about this morning is that the Democrat who was running against J.D. Vance, our alternative in the state of Ohio, was former Representative Tim Ryan, a Democrat.

And you know what he did as soon as he lost that election? He recently joined an advocacy group for pro-natural gas. That's what the Democrats in this state are. You know what I mean? And so it's just like, what? It's just so, and I know I'm being very Sagittarius and going further out and connecting dots, but it does feel significant.

That even members of the party that say they care about unions, that say they care about the environment, that say they care about intersectionality, whatever. This is an example of how it's like, no, push came to shove and y'all were not there for this. And they're beholden to this corporate money. I mean, it's hard to overstate the amount of money companies like Norfolk Southern spend on both parties. Mm-hmm.

to get the bills passed that they want passed. And I think what you really see here when you peel back the layers is that these major corporate interests...

have Congress by the chokehold through the pocketbook, you know? And it's like, it's clear. You can follow these paper trails. But the thing to remember is that even if these politicians say these companies are doing good in this and that, companies don't love you, they don't love us, and they must constantly be checked. And to that point, one last thing I wanted to point out, um,

Emily Wright, an activist who lives a few miles away from the derailment site, she wrote an opinion piece for the Columbus Dispatch this morning. And she pointed out, I mean, as you also read earlier, Sam, people as far as 30 miles away from East Palestine are experiencing symptoms. She said that the National Guard has come and gone.

And that kids are expected to go back to school this week in that area. Wow. And that's really scary for all kinds of reasons. But I think what this connects is thinking about how our country has handled the pandemic, the sense of, well, America's gotta get back to work. Everything's okay, even though we know we're still in a pandemic. Even though we know obviously this community is still reeling literally from the cleanup of this disaster. And it's like kids are already supposed to be back in school, what?

We got to learn these lessons. And we just need, like, we need a better politic of care in this country. There's just no politics that center care and taking care of each other. And this is just another example of that. And even our Democrats that are supposed to be, you know, the liberals that give you money and take care of you and they take care of the unions are falling here.

And they're not rushing to support these people. And, you know, there will be a ripple effect into the 2024 election. I promise you that. And this stuff has happened before and it could very well happen again. Norfolk Southern was caught up in a similar crash with similar chemicals in New Jersey just a few years ago. Mm-hmm. Unless it stopped, it will happen again. Mm-hmm.

And I guess to wrap up here, and I love that Sam always has this instinct to direct us to what can we do, who can we help in this situation. Emily Wright, the columnist I mentioned, she is a development director for River Valley Organizing. And you can learn more about the work they do at rivervalleyorganizing.org. They focus on issues like voter engagement, environmental justice, mass incarceration, drug policy, issues we should all care about but that are

certainly relevant to what's going on in that part of Ohio. So shout out to their work. Yeah. RiverValleyOrganizing.org. Go check them out. All right. We're going to take a break when we come back because this week also has Valentine's Day. Oh, right. We'll be talking about matters of the heart. Ooh. And heartbreak.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors.

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.

Here's an HIV pill dilemma for you. Picture the scene. There's a rooftop sunset with fairy lights and you're vibing with friends. You remember you've got to take your HIV pill. Important, yes, but the fun moment is gone. Did you know there's a long-acting treatment option available? So catch the sunset and keep the party going. Visit pillfreehiv.com today to learn more. Brought to you by Veve Healthcare.

All right, we are back and we're going to switch gears to talk about a love hangover that is today, the day after Valentine's Day. So while we know yesterday was a celebration of love for some, for others, it brings quite a bit of sadness. And listen, girl, I have been there. I have just been recently lucky to not be there today. Let me tell you that. And we'll get into that too. But before even Valentine's Day hit, we received a touching letter from one of our listeners and it inspired us to have a full-blown segment on love and loss.

Kim, we are here for you and we hope this helps and we hope you're okay with us reading a bit of your letter. You wrote in and you said, hi y'all, I've been a day one listener and a fan of each of you for what seems like forever. You all get my weekly vibe, absolutely correct. And I thank you for that.

Yeah. Not at U8. Dang.

That's 20 years of heterosexual marriage for those of you listening. That's the side conversion system. There's dog years and then there's queer years. Queer years are even longer.

Well, she continues. I'm trying to feel all the feelings and I could definitely use some of your brilliant insights about how to process and move on. I have complete faith that your wisdom would be very black and very amazing and it might soothe my soul so I can feel anything other than sad again. Kim, we've been there. We've all been there. I think I can speak for all of us. We've been there. How could we not?

How could we not? Yeah. How could we not? 'Cause it's not just romantic relationships. And I think we're gonna get into this. Love exists in all forms, which means that loss exists in all forms as well. Yes, yeah. To get us started, Cam, I feel for you. Oh my God. When you're in the depths of that heartbreak, part of what's so difficult is that you can't see the borders of that feeling.

And so there's no horizon, you know, and it just, whenever you're in intense feeling and you can't see a horizon to me, I think it's very scary because your mind goes, oh, it's going to be this way forever.

We have to remind ourselves what you are feeling is valid and potent, but it will not be that way forever. And I just think, and I talk about this a lot in our culture, we do have this sense that there's like this timer of reasonable reaction where you're supposed to be over something by a certain point.

And I just think one of the best things you can do when you're getting over heartbreak is not try to speed up, not try to shame yourself for still feeling so intensely. And that could be in terms of like the days and weeks after the breakup. That could be years later. You're in a wonderful relationship. And then a memory out of nowhere hits you. And here you are grieving this past. Totally.

Time doesn't – and love, it's not a binary. It's not linear. And so I just think we have to honor the feelings as best we can while saying, okay, I'm going to let you be my guest for as long as I guess you need to be sitting here with me. But I need to understand too that you are not a resident. Yeah.

That is. Yes. That's a word. That's a word. And I think a big thing I see happen a lot with myself and friends of mine who lately I've had a few friends go through breakups. So I'm in the throes with friends personally right now who I'm on the phone with weekly helping them get through it. And it's this sense of shame they feel about I...

I let someone love me and I love them so much and then they left me. And I don't know if that's what you're going through right now, but that feeling of I was so in the throes of someone, my life was built around them and now they've left me and they're no longer there. You start to question the reality of that. And I just need to tell you, don't question the reality. That was real. Everything you felt was real. It was important. It

meant everything to you and will mean everything to you. And just because it ended doesn't mean it wasn't worth having. And you also cannot close yourself up to love again. Because I think what heartbreak shows you is that you can open yourself up. You can feel these great pieces of love, great, the pressure of love and the pressure of someone else.

and it doesn't destroy you if they leave you. And that you also are now bigger to accept more love. And I think you have to look at that kind of horizon that you can't see at a size point yet, but know it's there. And know when it hits, there's going to be even bigger love that you can hold on to. That's going to be great. Yeah. I had a matter of the heart a while back that has since resolved itself, but I was like in deep grief over relationship shit.

And I remember being mad at myself for crying as long as I did. I cried on the toilet. I cried in yoga. I cried in line at the pharmacy. I cried in the car. Every single way you could cry, I did it. I cried like I was an actor in a Tyler Perry movie. I cried like a white Karen yoga mom. I did it all.

I cried and I screamed. I cried and I whimpered. I cried and I sang. Come on, Fleischman is in trouble. All of that. And you know what I finally had to tell myself? I was like, that's the process and it's okay. A good friend told me, Brandon, when I was going through this, he said, grief is chemical and it must leave your body. It must leave your body.

The hurt and pain you feel over this breakup must leave, and it leaves through crying. It leaves through a boxing class. It leaves through yelling, but it must leave. And so the catharsis of those emotions isn't just allowed. It's necessary. So let it happen.

And as you're going through that, and as I went through that, a thing I kept telling myself was no one broken heart is any better than any other broken heart. They are all broken. They are all broken. And they're broken in their own way, and they must be repaired and mended, but that takes time. You cannot compare your broken heart to someone else's broken heart. You cannot compare the journey of your recovery to someone else's journey. And you definitely cannot take notes from a rom-com on how to grieve a breakup.

It's going to be what it's going to be. And I think for me, what I found is that as we go through this grieving process where there's this catharsis and release, at a certain point, the release starts to subside and you feel quiet. And when you feel quiet, that is when you listen to yourself first.

more intently and consciously than ever before and Yourself will tell you something. It'll give you some wisdom. It'll give you some more love and some more joy that will propel you forward So I urge you as you're going through this breakup to just feel when your body is ready to be quiet And when that happens listen to yourself. Yeah, there is no timetable for this There is no calendar for this but this is the way it goes and

There's no right or wrong way to do this. Be thoughtful and careful about not hurting yourself or others while you grieve. But besides that, girl, just grieve. Get you some good ice cream. Get you some good Netflix. Just grieve. Yeah. Some of y'all listening may know, but certainly Sam and Zach know, that in 2017, I helped launch a live Twitter morning show for BuzzFeed News where I was working at the time. It was such an undertaking. I'm so proud of it. During the time I was working at the time,

During that time, the summer before, I started dating a guy who was really great and very supportive. And listen, when you're dating someone and they're like undertaking a new work thing, like, you know, that's intense undertaking. Mm-hmm.

That man, okay, so just mind you, it's a morning show. I'm new to doing a morning show, so everything's hard at that time, right? Only a couple of months into the show, like actually being on the air, that man dumped me at like 10 p.m.

On a Wednesday night, knowing damn well that I had to be up early the next morning to go in and do the show. And I was so, you know, like you don't want to have a bad vibe when you have to do morning TV. And I walked in and our showrunner who was pregnant had gone into labor early that very morning.

I was so angry. I understood that the relationship had run its course. I was so angry at the way this person who said, well, let's just still be friends and it's just a da-da-da-da had still acted in an I felt such a careless way, though he was trying to say he cared about me. And the reason I say this, Kim, is looking back now, it honestly took me two to three years to

To even just get to the point that just the mere mention of his name didn't make me imagine him getting hit by a New York City bus. Literally every time I would think about him, I would just picture this man walking in front of a New York City bus. I was so angry.

And I think now I had to feel that anger. Like, you know, and I was always kind of surprised. I'd be like, okay, girl, it's a year and a half now. You are now two, twice as far away from the relationship as you were in the relationship, but you're still feeling this feeling. But I think I had to feel it. And looking back now, I see how you have to be ready to do this. I'm not going to say it works for everyone. What I had to do was fall back in love with all the other, I guess, quadrants and sectors of my life.

I had to fall back in love and with deep gratitude on the book I was writing, the show that I was doing with my best friend, Isaac Fitzgerald. I had to fall back in love with my friends who were there with me through all of it. You know what I mean? And I can look back now in 2023 and I can see that the way I was able to, via gratitude, fall in love with the rest of my life, it was able to kind of carry me even across the anger. Yeah.

To the point that, you know, in fall of 2019, I met this wonderful man who now I'm still dating. You know what I mean? Like, I just, you can't rush it, but I think you can like honor that energy you have. Because Zach knows, it was like, I couldn't even handle a conversation about this guy. But it's like, take that energy and like turn it into enthusiasm if you can. Yeah.

Yeah. And you also have to like listen to your body at this time. You're going to make really irrational decisions. Like, you know, so I did not want his ex to actually die. Maybe he did. I don't know. You know, you're going to go through things where you're going to like say things, but it's just your body trying to express itself. Trying to find the words to express the feelings.

The pain that you feel. And, you know, at the same time, I went through my own breakup when Saeed did with a guy in Chicago. And I got a job in L.A. And I was considering the job. And he broke up with me because I was considering a job and I was considering a life with him, which is fine. At the time, I was like, okay, I made a choice. He's making a choice. We're moving on. Not two months later, he was dating his best friend who I knew as his best friend.

And it made me begin to reimagine our whole relationship, rewrite the stories of our love together, thinking he never loved me. He loved this other person. It never mattered. All these things. And I would find myself in fits of rage and I would run into him at events when I'd go to Chicago and I would, you know, be angry or I would leave or I would think I'd see him on the street and I'd cross the street. And I thought I was going crazy and, uh,

And maybe I was, but after some time, I finally realized I had to let it go. It was causing me more harm, holding on to this betrayal I felt that wasn't actually, and when I spoke to him, we didn't overlap. It was like he was heartbroken and someone helped him through the heartbreak and he found love. But during a breakup, the hardest thing is you got to let go and start working on you and taking care of you. And it's that untangling is where all that kind of tension comes. And it's hard. It's complicated. Yeah, it's really hard.

Someone once told me, a good friend of mine, our good friend Joanna, she said, emotions are like clouds. When a cloud is above your head, it feels like the only thing that's there. But eventually a cloud moves on. You can never predict when the cloud will move on, but it will.

And you have to remember that, you know what I'm saying? And like in the midst of being underneath this cloud of the breakup and this cloud of grief, you've still got to like live a life in the meantime. You can't just sit there and watch the cloud till it leaves. You can't just do that, right? So a thing that is helpful in times like this is just to kind of keep yourself busy. Give yourself a new hobby. Plan things for yourself. All of the friends you feel comfortable being with, plan activities with them, do.

do shit. You know what I'm saying? And it's not just to distract yourself, but just to build yourself up again. But I know it's so cliche to even say it, but like it will pass. You don't know when, but it will pass. It will. Also don't cut yourself off to love again. I think that like a lot of times when we have love that fails, we think the answer is to never allow ourselves to fall that deeply again. So we get hurt again and,

That's not the way either. That's not the way. And I know we have to move on and this could be a whole nother episode, but I just wanna make very clear, and the three of us have talked about this. Everything we just said about breakups absolutely applies to friend breakups too. Absolutely applies to friend breakups too. And as we've also discussed,

Often friend breakups can be even more difficult because you feel like you're like, well, we weren't dating. And there's no rule book for it. Go back, hit replay on the podcast and just like go back and re-listen. It all applies. Anybody hearing this who is dealing with grief over a romantic breakup or a friend breakup, you know what always helps?

a licensed mental health professional. Hello. If you're not seeing a therapist, you should. It helps always. I know it's hard to afford. I know it's hard to find, but if you can make that happen, make it happen. Yeah. And there are sliding scale programs. There's resources. You know, if you're really desperate and looking for something, email us. And I think I can point you to a website. There is this website. I can't think of it, but there are websites out there that help you find something in your area. And I'd be more than happy to send them over to you.

And Kim, I think this definitely relates to you as a queer person is that queer breakups are a whole other level. Just like queer time is different, queer breakups are different because so many of us have been rejected by our families, weren't able to have those teenage love affairs, have a lot of arrested development around our emotions and love. So when you finally find that person that you felt safe enough to try it with,

It does feel like the world is ending because you finally got to step into a world that was what you always imagined and dreamed of. So I think have compassion for yourself and also name it. Your heartbreak may be...

I know Sam said all heartbreaks are heartbroken, but those rainbow heartbreaks, baby, those are bigger. Those are bigger. But Kim, thank you. Thank you. And others, write in to us if you have advice for Kim or you just have stories you want to share. I think sometimes the most important thing to do when you're going through a heartbreak is just telling your story. So write it down to us. Send it to us. We will read it. Also, I'm curious to hear our listeners' heartbreak playlists.

What do you listen to? What is your heartbreak song of choice? Yeah, because sometimes it's like I don't want to listen to necessarily quote-unquote breakup music. Oh, sometimes I want to live in it, baby. But trust and believe, you know, you got to have that sizzle playlist ready. Yes, you'll do it. All right. Well, we're going to take another quick break, but don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

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All right, my loves, we are back. And before we end the show, of course, we like to share something that's helping us keep our vibes right this week. Zach, why don't you go first? Yeah, I'd love to go first. So in kind of an ode, I guess, of sorts to our last conversation about breakups, I'm really loving Kalela, the artist Kalela. Her name is spelled K-E-L-E-L-A. She's best friends with Solange. She has a new album out called Raven.

And it is just wonderful. It's her first album in over five years. She kind of disappeared. And what's amazing about Kalela is her fans on Twitter were like, girl, take your time. We're not rushing you. Unlike Rihanna fans. Unlike Rihanna fans who were like, where's our album? Is the impatience in the room with us now? Because the three of us have definitely been like, Beyonce, where are the damn visuals? Where are the visuals? I love that spirit for her fans. Kalela, we were like, let's take your time. And it's because a lot of her albums were breakup albums.

She was going through it. So Raven is an album of coming back together after that and kind of the power you have in the process of stepping out into a new life after heartbreak. But it's a really wonderful album. It's really sonically interesting. And if you love Solange, you're going to love this. It's also very pretentious. I'll just say that. Okay, so what do you mean by pretentious? It just has a sound that feels...

I don't even know. There's just something like when you heard Solange's second album that no one loved, it felt like it should be in an art show. All of it feels too smart for me.

Yeah. There's like something pretentious about it. It's not very accessible. Even her vocals. Oh, you don't mean her second. You mean when I get home? No. Oh, yes. Yes. When I get home. Yes. Her second album felt very like, you know, it was like, because I lived in downtown LA and she hangs out in downtown LA. It was very like downtown gallery girl. Like you're listening to this after the warehouse party. Sometimes it feels like she's making music that is smarter than you. Yes. It's a great way to put it.

I don't always hate that. Listen, when I get home, I was just like, well, this is called a sex playlist where I'll come from. You might be calling it an album, but thank you for doing the work, Solange. Okay, but I'll check that out. Sam, what about you?

I want to recommend one of the best breakup songs of all time for our listener who sent us the letter that we talked about in the last segment. A lot of folks probably figured out who Bonnie Raitt was for the first time at the Grammys a few weeks ago. She won for Song of the Year for what's a very good song. But my favorite song of hers that is now decades old is a classic breakup song called I Can't Make You Love Me.

make you love me. The title says all you need to hear. It is one of the most beautiful tearjerker songs I've

I've ever heard. And it's one of those songs where you put it on and you play it like five or six times. And even though it's really sad after that, you feel better. Oh, anyone experiencing heartbreak right now, go listen to that song a few times. Yes. I can't make you love me. It feels like a release. You saying the same. I'm like, yes, I have. This is a song that when you listen to it, you're like, I,

feel it coming out of my body. Yes. The grief leaves. Yes. It's wonderful. It's kind of like, she has a similar effect that Joni Mitchell has in her Blue album, where it's kind of this, like, these girls are going through it and that guitar is really helping them get out of it. Yes. Yes. Okay. I always think of, and maybe this is, you know, when you cross that river or when you're in the, like,

six inch slash sorry phase of the breakup where you're like, I'm going to go out. Yes. Or, you know, what is it? Adele's like, oh my God phase of the breakup, you know, where you're like, I shouldn't be doing this, but I'm about to do this for tonight. I feel like Bonnie Rae, isn't it? Let's give them something to talk about. Exactly. You know what I mean?

That's like, you know, let's go to the club. Let's sit in the most conspicuous place possible. I got my freakum dress on. Yeah. And those two songs you just mentioned are like examples of why Bonnie Raitt won that song of the year. Because we all know her music. You just don't remember her. Exactly. They are like classics. And baby, she's a poet. Just the first few lines of this song, just to give you a taste, she says...

Turn down the lights. Turn down the bed. Turn down these voices inside my head. Oh, come on, buddy. She's going there. I'll close my eyes. Then I won't see the love you don't feel when you're holding me. Come on. Turn it on, Kim. Turn it on. It's going to help you, girl. Turn it on.

Wow. Anywho, that is my recommendation. Saeed, what are you vibing with this week? As the poet of the group who like loves to just full on go into an existential spiral when, you know, world events break my heart. Being friends with Sam, it's like one of the things I love that Sam always directs us to. He's like, let's go deep. Let's talk about what's going on. Let's not sugarcoat it. But then as always, like, let's make space to think about what we can do next, right? Yeah.

And in the case of what's going on in East Palestine, it's not just a story of environmental disaster, as we've discussed. This is also like a labor story, right? Yes. You know, like union workers working on those trains have been warning us for years that something like this could happen. And I think both we need to acknowledge what's going on in this specific situation, but we also need to look forward, right? Because this is not the last time it's gonna happen. And so thinking about labor, I wanna recommend a book

that I'm now rereading, getting back into. It's by Kim Kelly, an excellent reporter. It's called Fight Like Hell, The Untold History of American Labor.

And it's really exciting because, you know, I mean, maybe when you think about labor, you think about movements out of mines or, right, like the garment factory workers. And that's a part of this book too. But Bayard Rustin is in this book. She takes us to queer sex workers unionizing. You know what I mean? So it really is that untold history. And I think Kim Kelly does an excellent job kind of connecting the dots and, you know,

The lesson that is always the case with disasters like here in Ohio is that you may think because you don't work on a train that their concerns as union workers don't have shit to do with you. Surprise, it does, right? We are all connected. You may think garment factory workers or coal miners or sex workers. You may think because you're not a sex worker's

that their rights, that their autonomy is not your business. But guess what? We are all entwined because that's what it means to be a society. And I think Kim Kelly does an excellent job of saying, like, we've got to all fight like hell for each other. But also it's like all of this shit is part of the supply chain.

Hello. If one of these links falls apart, it affects something you need in your home. All of them. All of them. Also, Kim Kelly is a real one. She covered the hell out of the Amazon union busting stuff for a long time. She is on it. Big fan of her work. Really?

Which is fantastic. And labor organizing is some of the most important organizing in the history of America. The Civil Rights Movement was very much about labor organizing. Bride Rustin, you know, gay, black icon, labor organizing. Absolutely. So check it out. The book is called Fight Like Hell. And follow Kim Kelly on social media just because you're right. It's one of those. You hear this, you know, for people who pay attention to social justice news. No one's covering this. No one's covering this. Kim Kelly is consistently covering those kinds of stories. She's a real one. We salute you, Kim. And people just start listening to people like,

her. Heller. Heller. All right, friends. Well, that's it for us. What are you feeling or not feeling this week? What's your vibe? Do you have a love hangover? Check in with us at vibecheckatstitcher.com. All right. Thank you for tuning into this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast listening platform and tell a friend. Also, can we tell them there's a billboard of us? Yes. Somewhere in New York? There's a billboard. I think it's a

In Times Square. If y'all are out there, go take a picture for us. Please take a picture because the three of us are not in New York right now. So on Friday, we will be on the Jennifer Hudson show, which we can now finally share with people. Hello. And we are telling you. Oh. We are on daytime TV. Five Check was supposed to lock me. We got it. We got it. Oh.

Oh my God. Yes. So look at us in Times Square. Look at us on TV on Friday and tell your friends that our show exists. You know, your love helps. And huge thank you to our producer, Shanta Holder, who has been holding us down this week with our two episodes. Also, thank you to Brendan Burns and Marcus Hom for our theme music and sound design. Special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from Agenda Management and Production. And last but not least, thank you to Jared O'Connell and Imelda Skinder for all of their help.

Listeners, y'all know we always want to hear from you. Do not forget. You can email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com and keep in touch with us on Instagram at Sam Sanders, at Zach Staff, and at The Ferocity. When you tweet about the show, use the hashtag vibecheckpod. Also find us on TikTok at

vibecheckpod. All right, stay tuned for another episode next Wednesday. Till then, whether you're in love or breaking up this Valentine's week, be good to yourselves and your heart. Goodbye. Goodbye. Stitcher.

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