VANESSA CASTLE | Healing Women Heals Mother Earth
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Young and Indigenous Podcast is an outlet for people to know about Indigenous knowledge, storytelling, and history. Through our youthful journeys as Indigenous people, young people, and elders share their experiences with us. Without them, we wouldn't be able to do this. About to tell some Reds stories. Stay tuned. Yay, podcast! ♪

Hello my respected people. My name is Santana Rabang and I come from Lummi. I am a daughter, an auntie, student, activist, and proud canoe paddler.

I'm so happy to be joined here today by Vanessa Castle, who is a proud member of the Lower Elwha Klallam Tribe. She is the Tribal Engagement Coordinator at Ridges to Riffles Conservation Group, a nonprofit organization led by all women representing Native American tribes in natural and cultural resource matters. She is a dedicated advocate for Indigenous stewardship and overall such a strong, powerful woman.

This podcast series will highlight women's leadership within grassroots movements, but most importantly, how they take care of themselves while being involved in high-level advocacy work. It's important we talk about how self-care is essential to being an advocate. While the movements we fight for are important, so is our mental health and well-being as women. So, Vanessa, can you please introduce who you are and where you come from?

Hi, Squatchy. Eampton's a snatcher. F1 is Clamson. I am Eampton or Vanessa Castle and I come from the Lower Elwha Column Tribe, which is situated in what is now Port Angeles, Washington at the mouth of the Elwha River. Thank you. I'm so happy that you joined me here tonight and that I can catch you on this next episode of this podcast series that's highlighting women's leadership. Could you tell me what type of work you're involved in?

Yeah, so currently I am the Tribal Engagement Coordinator for Ridges to Riffles, which is an Indigenous conservation group focusing right now on the Klamath River restoration after the largest dam removal project in the world. Yes. Yes. Applaud here. And, but I come from the Elwha River, as I said. So previous to this, I was a natural resource technician.

working on the Elwha River restoration, the former largest dam removal project in the world. And so I came from working there after growing up on the river as a fisherwoman and learning about our connection with the earth.

What was your job title for Elwha? I was a natural resource technician. And what did that work look like? So I was in the field 100% of the time, gathering... And that meant on the water? Yeah. In the field for us was just going out on the river and monitoring our fish on the Elwha and its tributaries, and then our neighboring watersheds in Clallam, usual and accustomed area, and also working in wildlife. So...

studying and monitoring habitat recolonization into the dewatered reservoirs, but also making sure populations of animals that are culturally significant to us are good and healthy and also monitoring just the interactions between culturally significant animals. Did you accept this job before or after the dam was removed in Elwha? So it's kind of an interesting story because

I knew about the Klamath Dam Removals coming out because we had a colleague from the Elwha who worked for the National Park go to the Klamath River Dam Removal Project and work for the Yurok tribe. And so I knew a little bit about it. And then when I started at Natural Resources, we had a symposium called ScienceScape and the Klamath biologists from the Yurok and the Karuk came up.

to the Elwha to learn about what happened in the Elwha. And that was the first time I had spoke to their biologist and just kind of got an idea of what was happening in the Klamath and how excited they all were. And it sparked a moment of excitement in me for them because they were experiencing something that we had experienced and like hope for them. And to be able to exchange that information of like, this is what's happened here. And, you know, that they were getting ready to take out their dams.

And then with Children in the Sitting Sun, we started the Salmon People filming and we got to go. I was thankful enough to be sent to the Salmon People gatherings where I met the richest, terrifful women. And so from that, we built

a blooming relationship of collaboration. And then they offered me a position when I wanted to attend school again, so step back into my education. They wanted to support me doing that. And so here I am. I love that. Yeah. I think that's just what's so beautiful about all of this and being able to be a witness to this work is just the beautiful relationship that's blossomed from this work. But like also, yeah,

What you said about like sharing, you know, what helped you with Alwa, like could help the Klamath and what they're doing and like sharing that knowledge, I think was just so beautiful. And being able to witness that, I think is just...

And then like you being able to work now for Ridges to Riffles and to just look back on how we all came together is just so beautiful. It's really exciting and it is a beautiful thing. During this process, we've seen an uprising of these strong indigenous women who are supportive of one another. And it's been the most beautiful journey.

journey for all of us. And I know that we're, we're building a family, right? From many different nations. Oh my gosh. I'm going to start crying already. We're barely like 10 minutes in or not even 10 minutes. And we're like five minutes in. No, literally I, I, this is why I wanted to do this is because whenever I think about what makes me feel strong in the times that I'm just struggling is you guys like, and being surrounded by like

other strong women that empower me and like leave me walking out of the room feeling like I can do anything and accomplish anything is just something that has been um most memorable to me um so I just I love you so much and I thank you I love also just being able to see you on tribal canoe journeys too like outside of our work with the salmon people project we're just like hey I see you like

So I love just being any chance I am able to see you and interact with you. I'm always just so thankful for it. So thank you again. And you're a part of this family, right? CSSP has been a part of this journey in this family. If it wasn't for them, we wouldn't have built those bonds. So.

you're one of our little chicks. Thanks. I know. I always get so giddy when I see you guys. We all do, you know? And we're so excited for you and to watch you grow. Thank you. And to see, like, we, I mean, I think in general, like, we are so excited for the younger generation and up and coming, especially the young women that are stepping into this role and, like, using your voice, right? Stepping into your power. I'm so excited. Thank you. You definitely help

nudge me more to do it that's the anti-love we all need some anti-love in our life exactly um okay can you can you reflect on some of your personal experiences with advocacy and community organizing is there a certain like movement or event or time that has had a significant impact on your life

Yeah, I mean, there's been many in my life, people that I've seen advocate for our people and our young people, but also like I, as I stepped into that role, part of my job and not on paper, it was part of something I saw as my role as an Indigenous woman who was Klallam, was to take care of my young people. So when I went to go work for Natural Resources, I noticed there was an absence of young people involved with Natural Resources.

And I took it upon myself to advocate for the young people, pull them into that world of STEM. And I know it's happening in other Indigenous communities, but I didn't see it happening in my own homeland. And so I started at every corner, every turn, bringing young people with me, whether it was speaking at University of Washington, whether it was traveling. I invited someone to come up here with me.

And then advocating to the people who are writing the grants, we need to include our young people in our grants and explaining to them why that's so important and then watching them take that and run with it and build this beautiful, we have a youth education grant in the Natural Resources Department that's our wildlife youth education, which teaches young people, and now we're bigger than Elwha, because it's a collaborative grant with five other tribes on the Olympic Peninsula.

to get them outside, to teach them about survival skills in the woods, navigation skills, wildlife track and sign, which is how our ancestors used to see the world. To be able to go into the woods and say, a bear's been here and look, this is how I know and this is the way it's going. Or how to track and teaches you to become a better hunter. And so advocating for those youth to share space with us in the science world and give them the sense of

responsibility for our resources. Like this is our job, we have to take care of this stuff. And watching youth get that sparkle in their eye for what they're doing and start to own and that knowledge, because that can never be taken away from them. I think that was a changing moment in my life to where I was like, I want to elevate our voices, I want to bring them to all of the events that I'm going to, I want them to see me

And show them this is possible. You can be doing this next. You can be teaching. And to tell them, like, when I step out of this world or if I, you know, when I'm old and can't walk, when I'm done with the work that needs to be done, which, you know, maybe when my time here is done, this is your role. You'll have to take over, just like I'm trying to take over for the ones who have laid the path before us from us, like all of our ancestors that came before us that have fought to be where we're at right now.

And so like empowering the youth at Elwha, I think that was the most powerful and like just life changing experience because I've seen the change it's done in those couple of youth just in their confidence. I agree. I it's always the most I feel like that's like what's the most rewarding part about the work, you know, is learning.

that hope that's in the younger generation. Like, that's what brings me healing too, is like seeing my little cousins or my niece, you know, participate in protocol or sing at jam outs and wear regalia and just walk tall. Yeah. And for me, I didn't have, I had a couple of people, but I didn't have that when I was young. I didn't have somebody to guide me. So I was lost for a while.

And to see them step into their culture, because I also mentor there too, and bring them with and step into who they are as Indigenous people, young people, it's been healing for me. I think that just goes to show how important mentorship is, right? Yeah, absolutely. You're in my life for a reason. All these women are in my life for a reason. What women in your life have...

brought mentorship to you that has molded you into who you are today? I mean, there were a lot of people that contributed to who I am today. My mom being one of them, who was, she was an amazing fisherwoman and still is. My grandmother, Ramona Sampson, who, you know, is like my great aunt, but she's my grandmother, who was at the stand at Wounded Knee and who taught my mom how to fish. And

Just a lot of community members, like our language speakers, Jamie Valdez, and then my two great aunts, my grandpa's sister and my great-grandpa's sister, Bea and Adeline. They're the ones who testified to Congress for the Elwha Act to be passed for the dam removal. So I come from a long line of women who have been fighting this fight, and I don't, you know, like, I am so grateful that they've paved the way for us. Yeah, I agree. I...

I think that's why I try and lean in so much with who I have around me now instead of seeking where it hasn't been in my life. Yeah. Because I haven't had the best of role models growing up too that helped pave that way. But I got to a point in my life where I was like, I got to stop looking for that. You know, it's not bringing me anything in my life when I'm

seeking love where I'm not gonna get it. Yeah. I mean, I get it, but it's not the love that I need. Yeah. You know? I know what you mean. So... Now look at all the people around you that love you. I know. I know. And I'm so thankful. And that's why I'm trying to lean into this podcast series with all of you so much because this year was hard. I...

I don't know what it was with this year, but this year was not it. It's the season of change. That's all I say is it's the season of change. Whether that's us making change or whether that's change happening in our lives, it's the season of change. I'm leaning into it. Yeah, I'm ready. New year coming along. I've never been one of those New Year's resolutions. New year, new me. Oh, oh, oh.

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I want to talk about the dam removal a little bit more. Do you feel like the removal changed the direction of your health and well-being as a woman? 100%. When the dams started to come down, I was in a really vulnerable state. I was lost, right? And they closed our fisheries down for the moratorium, which was agreed upon.

and necessary. And so I moved away. I turned my back on who I was as an Indigenous woman. I moved far, far away. I moved to Texas. I moved to DC, to Colorado. I just was exploring the world, right? And when I came home, when I moved home to lean back into my culture, because, you know, I wasn't in a good place. As soon as I started healing myself as a young person, I

in my culture and like going on canoe journeys and really relying heavily upon my spirituality, I started getting curious. How was my river? I missed fishing. So I started fishing other rivers and then I went to Standing Rock for the Dakota Access Pipeline fight and that just ignited my passion for fighting for our resources. It like woke something up inside of me that I didn't know was sleeping. And when I came home,

I was told to take the fight home that we had fought back in North Dakota and to keep that fire going, that sacred fire, to fight for our resources and the environment and the water. And so I did. First, right when I moved home, we had the Atlantic Fish Farm collapse. And so I brought a lot of attention to that with Annette Pence. And then a job opened up at Natural Resources. And so I shifted and applied for that and got that job there.

And that started my journey. Like my river had been healing from the dams being taken out. And as soon as I started working at Natural Resources and got back out on the river, that started my healing journey because I hadn't healed. And so being back out on that river again, getting to spend time intimately in the river, seeing the fish, handling the fish for science was my healing journey. That's still happening to this day.

It's that interconnectedness. Yeah. Because when the dams came out, we stopped going to the river during the moratorium. We had previously been people who spent a lot of our time all fall on the river, gathering as a family, camping down there at fish camp, like all of that. And so it had gotten to a point where we had so little fish that that stopped happening. I remember...

When I was really young, there used to be smokehouses going all fall. You'd smell the smoke from the smokehouses. And as the fish depleted, that depleted. That smell, that sound, the sound of the tracks going to and from the river, because we live right next to the river. And so when the dams came out, it was the first sign that there was hope again. And when I went to go work on the river, I saw that hope. And I knew it was real. And so...

That was a part not only of my healing journey with my river, but also spiritually with my ancestors, with the ways of life that my ancestors lived, all of those things. I'm such a firm believer on interconnectedness healing. I did a study abroad program in Oaxaca, Mexico, and it was right before COVID-19. Like I was in Mexico when COVID-19 hit. And I remember my study abroad program

like mentors, they were like, oh, if you want to go home, you know, if you're scared, like you can stay here. I was like, oh yeah, I'm scared because I wanted to stay longer. So I was like, yeah, I want to stay longer, but things weren't letting up or getting better. So I had to come home. But anyways,

I went there and I was going through a lot at that time too. So in my head, I was like, I'm going to use this escape and I'm going to go there. I'm going to heal and I'm going to come back and I'm going to be better, you know? But I went there with this like individualized mindset of healing, like, oh, I'm going to heal, you know? And it was, it was like me, me, me. And then they shared this

saying with me in Spanish that I actually got tattooed when I was over there because it was like, you know how you have lessons in your life that just like really shift something in your head? That was like and that was one of those life moments for me where

They shared a quote and it was, "No es sanarme, no es sanarnos." And it means, it's not about healing me, it's about healing us. And so I started after that, I started thinking more collectively about healing. Like when I heal, I help heal my little brothers. I help heal my mom. I help heal my sister.

And when we heal as a collective, we internally or externally heal Mother Earth. And so with Elwha, like in the dam removal, I feel like you all witnessed and felt that firsthand was your spirit was sick mentally, physically, you know, because we think when we think about our health and wellness, we think holistically. And so...

When this dam was there, it's like you guys were sick, you know, and after it was gone, it's like you guys are blossoming and healing all at once. Can you talk a little bit about that transition, like maybe what that looked like or what that felt like? So leading up to the dam removal, it was kind of this like roller coaster, right? Like our fish were, we were getting scared because the Elwha Act was passed in 1992 and

It then took 20 years to start taking out the dams. So it was this long period of like court battles that tribal council and a lot of other partners were fighting. So during that time, the Elwha Act passed. They said the dams were going to come out. We got all excited. And the families, you could feel it. You could feel it in the community. You could feel it in all the people. Everybody was talking about it. And then the court battles went on for so long. And then you start to lose a little bit of hope, right? Yeah.

And then we find out we won. We're going to take him out. Like they can't fight us anymore. It's moving forward. And that was the most joyous time of our lives. Like we, I remember we were hugging and crying and high-fiving and singing and dancing and breaking bread together. I remember that day. And having prayers at the river and telling the fish it'll be okay. And just having that.

that connection again. And then we start to take the dams out and it's a long process because it's the first ever, right? So there's a lot of unknown and there's a lot of like nervousness because we don't know what's going to happen. It had never been done before. Dams come down and immediately we see fish coming back. And I remember the day that I saw fish above the dam sites. And that was like the most rewarding part of

But then as time went on, that starts to fade off, right? That excitement that the dams are out starts to fade. And then we start to mourn the loss of our salmon as the moratorium continues. And so that went on for 10 years. And it wasn't until I started working for natural resources that I started reminding people that people are connected to the river. We need to feed ourselves. We need to feed our spirit.

And that that connection to the salmon is more than just food for us, right? And so I feel like someone or something, our ancestors sent me there to deliver a message because some of those scientists had forgotten that they, the reason the dams came out, yes, it was for the salmon, but because our people fought for them. And I don't blame them. It's so easy as a scientist to get so wrapped up in the data, but I was there to remind them.

And that was at the meeting that we had the Klamath biologists at. It was called ScienceScape. It was a 10-year post-dam removal meeting. They were telling all the stories of success in the Elwha, sunshines and rainbows and all the beautiful things that have happened, how the river has healed itself. And I stood up and said, what about my people? And that's what started the conversation about the first ever fishery post-dam removal, which happened last year. And that's

The moment when I was out fishing on the river, when I saw the healing of my people and that connection, people started learning the river again. They started spending time out there again. Families were going as groups, like whole families of multi-generations, grandpas, grandmas, granddaughters, like everybody, even great-grands were on the river together. And that was the first moment when I was like, it's happening. I see the light.

Like our people are now healing just as our river has, just as our fish are healing. That is connection. Yes. All the yeses. Oh my gosh. Yes. Your healing is my healing. And all of the work that you've done literally has allowed your rock to like follow suit, you know? And now the Snake River, the Columbia, like...

It's happening. Like all of these strong salmon woman warriors are standing up and leading these fights. And it's just beautiful to be able to witness amongst, you know, all of the work, the amazing and hard work that you do. Things get hard. Things get heavy sometimes.

Can you talk a little bit about how you take care of yourself holistically when it comes to your mind, body, and spirit? So for me, I revert to my teachings. I go to the water. When I don't feel healthy, I go to the river. I wash myself off, just as my aunties had taught me. If that doesn't work or if I need more... Which sometimes we do. Which sometimes we do. I start to turn to the ones that I know that can hold me up spiritually.

The ones that we sing with, we dance with, I pray on that floor. The ones we get in the canoe with. Those people that you look up to and that you know have your back and that can just tell you and lift you up and remind you that who you are as an Indigenous woman. Sometimes we just need to be reminded that we are strong Indigenous women and to hold your head high. And sometimes that works well.

I spend a lot of time also in nature out gathering. I go and gather our medicines during our seasons and I harvest. And I, as a mother, you know, hold my child, remember why I'm doing this. Surround myself with youth, go to drum group where all those little ones look up to me and remember why I'm doing it. You know, go to my elders and talk to them, the ones that we have left and just visit with them because often they miss us

And so I rely heavily on my community and that just doesn't mean Elwha. That means everybody that surrounds me in my life. That means everybody up here at Lummi, everybody at the Klamath, everybody that has ever contributed to my story that I know is a positive person in my life. I lean into that and who I am as an Indigenous woman and I make sure that I'm also there for them when they need me. It's gotten better for me to ask for help

lean into those people in your life that have that positive influence in your life. It's so crazy when you get in these dark mindsets and you know you have a support system but yet you feel so alone because it truly is like you don't want to burden anyone, you don't want to trauma dump, you don't want to all these things right that prevent you from reaching out but I

A couple weeks ago, I think it was probably the first time that I've hit a place in my life where I've never been before spiritually. And I reached out to everyone through text message and was like, I'm honestly scared right now. Like, I don't know what to do. So that wasn't easy for me, but I know it's what you need because...

Like you said, that reminder, I got like so many texts back where I was like, oh my God, I feel so much better. Like you have a network. It was like crazy. Like, I mean, obviously I was still lingering in my emotions, but it was better because I was like, yeah, I'm reminded, like I'm strong, I'm resilient. I'm anything I want to be in anything I put my mind to. I just have to believe it, you know? And I think what's,

I think when we're also in these moments of... When we're experiencing dark spaces, it also makes me have such a low self-esteem. Like my confidence is like... I don't even recognize myself when I'm in these spaces because I'm like, you're not you right now. You're not walking into things confident. You're just like walking into things like you're going to fail. Do you have any...

advice to indigenous youth who are battling you know their mental health like what advice would you give them to for confidence boosters or you know how to continuously take care of themselves when it comes to their mental physical and spiritual well-being I think a big part of it is like what you said we don't know like the rest of your community doesn't know what's going on with you unless you say something

So often we're so detached when we go home, right? Like we're off in our own little world. And unless you reach out and say, hey, I'm struggling, there will be some people that will have the intuition to check in every once in a while. I've gotten messages before where I wasn't doing well and I get a, hey, how are you? And I'm like, oh,

Like, like, yeah, like, what was that? Spirit. Yeah, exactly. But a lot of the times that doesn't happen. And it's okay to reach out and be like, I'm struggling. I need I need some words of encouragement right now. But if not, if you don't feel comfortable doing that, hold space, go and be around other people that are those positive people in your life. Because

Nobody talks about the power of just being in those circles and being present and how that heals you. Sometimes you don't even have to say what's going on or tell those people what's going on. Just be around other positive people and hold space and it can uplift you. Energy is a real thing. But don't forget our roots, your teachings, the teachings that our elders constantly talk about. Like I was always taught, don't cry at nighttime. Cry in the morning, then go wash your face. Go to the water.

the water remembers. And just make sure you don't go too far from that. Those original teachings that our elders have always told us, I know we've all heard along the way, whatever your family's teachings are about that, or go walk through the brush, let it brush you off, let it touch you. Because once again, energy, the energy of the forest can heal you. And so returning to those things and making sure you're not running away.

and remember who you are and where you came from and remember that you are of this land, that you are a part of this ecosystem. We are one of the keystone species in these ecosystems and you're needed. That's really powerful. You know, often Western science removes humans from that, but us as indigenous people are very necessary for all things in the ecosystem here. So reminding yourself that you belong here, you are of this land,

birthed out of this river, whatever it is, your creation stories. Just lean back into that and you'll remember who you are. I am a survivor of the Great Flood. Yeah, we all are. We all have those stories, right? Those origin stories, yes. Yeah. Well, I just want to express my appreciation and gratitude to you for just sharing this moment in this space with me.

My first episode was with Alyssa. And I knew that I was going to feel better afterwards. And I knew I was going to feel better after this episode. And it's just only going to keep going and providing healing for me in my life. And all of your words...

I know is for other youth as well or other young indigenous tribal leaders, but I'm taking it all in while we're here. And I will carry, you know, what you shared with me for the rest of my life. Sounds so corny now. For the rest of my life. I will always...

I will always honor you. It's like the Ahasut song. Baby, I love you. Oh my God. For the rest of my life. Cue Ahasut song. As we're coming to an end to our episode, is there anything that, any last words that you want to share in regards to, you know, women leadership and taking care of ourselves? I am just so proud of this generation's women.

Watching us step into these roles and find our strength and step into our power and uplift one another is something that I've never been a part of until now. And I am so thankful for all of the women who have come across my path along the way and that have contributed even just a little bit because I've taken all of that to be who I am today. And I hope that you do as well. You take a little piece of us so that you can grow.

And I can't wait to see that happen as you like blossom, right? As a strong, young, indigenous woman, and then a strong woman, and then a strong elder. I know I'm an elder in training. I'm an auntie right now. Elder status next. I'm so excited for this whole generation of young people, you know, to fight these fights. And I see you. I see what you're doing.

Keep fighting. We need you. I will. I promise. For you, for all of us, for the younger generations. I will. For our ancestors. For our ancestors. They're my guiding star always. Oh gosh, this is so good. I cannot wait for this series to come out. I love this so much and I just appreciate you and your time and I love you so much. I love you too. I appreciate you. Thank you for having me.

Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Young and Indigenous Podcast. This episode was produced by Santana Rabang and Ellie Smith. Original music by Keith Jefferson, Mark Charles, Vanessa Castle, West Shore Canoe Family, and Ahausik Canoe Family.

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