754. Stress Is Killing You + Your Relationship: Here’s How To Fix It
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Hello and welcome to Almost 30 Podcast. Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show. It's Lindsay and Krista.

Just bringing you the heat. Let me tell you one thing that's important. You don't need to be 30 or almost 30 to listen. You can be whoever you are, wherever you are on earth or outside of earth to listen. We just started the show when we were turning 30. When we felt super lost, we kind of hit rock bottom, found each other and wanted to have conversations around spirituality, health and wellness, relationships,

And each week we bring on an amazing guest or professional or researcher or author. And then we also do solo episodes where we share vulnerably and honestly about our lives.

And I'm really excited about today's episode. I always love when a therapist comes in. Oh my gosh, me too. Because I'm like, free session. Cool. No, Elizabeth Earnshaw joins us today. I sat down with her in New York. Her new book, Till Stress Do Us Part, is out now. And basically, the concept for this book is super simple, but very important. And I agree with it.

So much of the unrest in our relationships stems from stress and our inability to metabolize it, inability to prevent it, our misunderstanding of it and misunderstanding of the other's experience of stress. So

I just love this conversation. She is just a wealth of knowledge and experience, especially related to couples, whether it's romantic couples or within friendships or family dynamics. So she shared a lot of client stories, obviously anonymously, but it just really helped to kind of ground us in the concept. But yeah, we can get into it. But when I say stress in relationships, what do you think about it?

You know what I think about is how unconscious we are. I've been about it in the past, hopefully in the future and in my current relationships. I am more aware of it, but I think it's such an undercurrent to our lives that lives in us almost all the time that...

we aren't aware of so we're not bringing into the conversation of where we're at or what we're feeling you know like even in the past couple in the past month with my move and just all the fires here and everything like that I've been so anxious I haven't been sleeping I've felt horrible and yeah it reminded me how much less available and much less space I have how much less I share and

You know, when I'm so, when I'm much more regulated and grounded in that piece, I share more, I'm more open to connecting and dah, dah, dah, dah. And so many people are living with so much stress that it makes it hard to connect truthfully, vulnerably, authentically. I think the deepest connection happens when you are less stressed on vacation, when you're traveling, you know what I mean? Like on date nights, it's like, how can you create those moments in places where you are affording more opportunity to connect because you feel less stressed, but stress like ruins so many relationships. Completely.

And it's not even about the relationship. It's about who you are as a stressed person and the energy you bring into the relationship. It's felt to me like even recently when I'm stressed, it's like this runaway train where all of a sudden I'm like five stops past where I should have gotten off. And Sean's like, are you good? And I'm like, oh, I'm stressed. Like I actually am like I'm overwhelmed. I like feel under-resourced in this way, this way, this way.

And I think especially in a partnership and I consider like we're talking about friendships to business partnerships, like our relationship, we've had this before as well, where it's like we kind of need to like update each other on like, you know, things.

Hey, I'm feeling really overwhelmed. Yeah, we had that recently. Yeah. And it's really helpful because- Yeah, it's a great one. I think we can be so in our own experiences and we're like, why doesn't this person understand? Why aren't they reading my mind? Why don't they know what I'm going through? And it's like, we really do need to stop the runaway train of stress and be able to, one, tune in and be like, okay,

Where is this stemming from? How can I regulate on my own? And also how can I bring the people that I care about, uh, into this experience in the sense that like, I just want them to understand that to the best of their ability and as an ally to help support me through it. Cause that's honestly what they want to do, you know, for the most part. Yeah. But yeah, I think we're a great example because I think in the past couple of months, you know, I've been like at a

max stress level that I haven't felt in a long time. I think with the book, I just, I'm so scared of failure. I'm so scared of not having it be everything that I know it can be. I'm so scared to put myself out there in this big way. And yeah, I was really noticing the

myself, maybe after the fact focused on you and focused on us and focus. It's like almost like that, that part of you that's like, I'm so scared. I need help. And then I'm like, okay, Lindsay, you know, what are, how can you help? It's like, I think as a woman, even in a relationship romantically, I would do that where it's like, I'm drowning. I need something. And then you focus on the partner, you focus on the other person. And I'm not saying that

In romantic relationship, your man can't show up or your person can't show up, but they don't know what's going on internally. And I think that was when I do have people that are intimately connected to me, I do recruit them to join me in my stress brigade. I'm like, come, I'm freaking out. I need you. Yeah. I'm more of a like a

I respect that. I'm more of a like, let me figure this out and then I'll come back. And I think I'm with every other person, but with people like you or people like my romantic partner, it's like, no, you're on. But I do it unconsciously until it's made conscious. So I'm unconsciously like, totally like, dude, why aren't you? Why? You know what I mean? Like I'm drowning. I need you. And then, cause I'm also focused.

on the primary people relationship are you and the other people I'm like completely blocking to support. Cause I'm like, for some reason. Well, it's also like a lot of, it's like, you kind of want to whittle it down. Like, let me simplify during the stressful time rather than like involving people. But just, I guess for, so in that situation where I was just super, super stressed, you know, like being able to bring it to you and be like, Hey, I'm noticing the pattern that I'm in, you know, the pattern that we've been in of me being overwhelmed, stressed,

Wanting to do so much, being so afraid, being so scared of failure, expecting so many things. And then also like not knowing your experience in it and then being given access to your experience is so regulating for me. Like, I don't know if that's a sign of probably a sign of a healthy mind is like when you are given access to someone else's experience, it regulates you. I'm like, oh, fuck. Yeah. I love to hear what's going on for you. That makes me feel so much better. I guess it gives you the peace because then, you know, no one's doing it on purpose.

Totally. And you're like, oh, wow. Yeah. I forgot. Like you have your own, you know, so totally. And then being able to work through it and be like, okay, like how can we work together to mitigate this stress, to come back and regulate, to see where we're at, to see the truth and where we're going and like do everything that we can. Like, what is the truth of what we can do through this book process as an example from a relationship perspective to be less stressed and enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's, I think this is a sign of like being in, like if you're experiencing this in one of your relationships or multiple, like it's an opportunity. Yeah. You know, it's not a sign that like the relationship is like not good. I think stress is normal and sometimes stress is really healthy. You know, there are healthy forms of stress, which Elizabeth and I talk about, but yeah, it's really an opportunity to deepen, an opportunity to bring more clarity to the experience and

So, yeah, we talk about all the ways in which we can initiate communication, how we can kind of prevent, you know, future like problems.

blow-ups from happening because sometimes it's just a pressure cooker. Sometimes it's like we take on so much, we take on so much, and then all of a sudden we explode. It's like how do we actually release the pressure a little bit at a time along the way so it doesn't get to that point? We talk about boundaries. It's like so what are the sources of stress and kind of how can we design our life and our everyday so that

it's not to completely get rid of the stress, but it's either put it in perspective or, um, yeah, just take care of ourselves a little bit more. Um, and,

But yeah, she offers some really incredible research and science behind stress because it is, we've heard this, but it's true. It's a silent killer, like whether literally or figuratively. And so it's important, I think, to notice this in relationship. And what I've been doing recently with Sean, it's like, it's going to that first. It's like, what is stressful behind the scenes right now that I don't know or that he doesn't know? You know, he...

he could have a day at work where a few things happened and you know how that, like, you can kind of take things on and it's almost just like, you can't shake it, you know? And then you come home and I'm asking like my questions are like, how was the day? And I'm not operating, understanding what happened in the day. Not that I should, but it's like, how do we kind of get into a, like a better habit of like,

him communicating like, yo, I had like a funky day. I might need like a moment to like shake it off a little bit or like I would love to debrief in like an hour. I just need like a little bit to kind of come to. And it's just helped so much because then I'm not taking on what can I do to make it better? Did I say something wrong or vice versa? Because like he told me the other day, he's like, sometimes you have these too. And I was like, wait, what? And he's like, yes, I

And I'm like, whoa. Because I'm so in my own experience that I'm like, no, I keep it cool. And no one knows. Oh, no, no, no. People are perceptive. And when they're attuned to you, they're going to know. Yes, of course. Like, duh. Yeah, that's the thing is I think it's always getting out of our experience. It's like I had to get out of mine like, oh, yeah, you're having your own experience in there too. That was, you know, just a story on that when I was with someone the other day.

a man on a date, it was like we were both sitting, I told you this, but we were both sitting in these two chairs next to each other and he was facing forward eating the meal and I was fully facing him. Like I was turned completely, my whole body to him, my legs open, just because I feel like a basketball player all the time. So I was just sitting like normally and I was noticing myself fully push it, fully my energy towards him and his energy not towards me. And so I noticed and I tuned and turned my energy away from him straight forward and

And then as soon as I did that, he faced his energy completely towards me. And I said something to him later. I was like, oh, what happened in that moment? Like where we have that energy shift. And he's like, well, first I'm a man and I'm eating a meal and I'm really hungry. And he's like, and second, then we talked about the energy, dah, dah, dah, dah. But I was like, oh yeah, you're a man that's hungry eating a meal.

Totally. This isn't about your receptivity to my energy or like your willingness to like, this isn't about you being an avoidant attachment. And this isn't about me. Yes. This isn't about me. It's about you being hungry and enjoying your meal. Yeah, I know. And then being done and being ready to like fully attuned to me. But yeah, people are having their own experience. And I think being conscious of the stress in your life, you taking responsibility is one of the biggest things.

how am I feeling? What's going on? What could be stressful? That tune in morning, noon, and night, wherever you can do it in the day is going to be huge. So I'm excited about this conversation. The book is Till Stress Do Us Part. It is available now. And you can follow Elizabeth Earnshaw on Instagram at Liz Listens.

I'm excited. And also we have our Almost 30 book coming out in June. So make sure to pre-order now. You get a ticket to camp, which is our virtual digital event. Thousands and thousands of you sign up each year to this beautiful experience that only happens once a year for Almost 30. It's so powerful. The best healers, teachers, doctors.

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Okay, let's do this. I'm so thrilled you're here for so many reasons. Um, and I'm so

I think there is such a hot topic in our community and within our audience in particular around relationships, especially at this age during these transitions from our 20s to our 30s as we step into more serious relationships and get even clearer about the type of relationship we want to be in and the person that we want to be in a relationship. Yeah.

So I just know we're going to have a juicy, juicy convo today. But it also comes at a very potent time because I feel like I woke up and I was like, I have not been able to manage my stress lately. Yeah. And I would consider myself someone that has all the tools, you know, knows how to take care of myself and what really needs to happen in order to like metabolize stress. And the last two weeks, I have to say, hasn't been happening. So, um,

For me personally, this comes at a perfect time. But I would love to just kind of begin within your work and your practice and what you started to see or maybe have always seen within your practice related to couples and stress or perhaps how it's morphed, especially in the last, you know, say five, 10 years.

Yeah. So I've been working with couples for over 15 years. I'm sure it was always there. I just didn't see it. We weren't really trained to look at it. And in 2020, I started to notice a lot more that people were getting into conflict because of stuff that was happening outside of them. So, you know, in 2020, like things happening with people's careers, um,

childcare, jobs, all sorts of things. People were not able to navigate those things. They were overwhelmed. And then that was coming back to the relationship. And so I started to recognize it wasn't so much that these people were missing communication skills. It was that they were overwhelmed and depleted. And so that is when I started to think, how do we address this instead of just trying to address this communication stuff? And what are those things that

that are breaking down outside of the communication piece? So when we are experiencing stress that goes beyond our ability to manage it. So you said, I know all the tools and most people do. You know, if you ask somebody, what do you need to do to manage stress?

They know. They would say, I need to exercise. I need to breathe. I need to hang out with my friends. I need to sleep. But when you can't actually access those tools because you're working too much, you have chronic illness, something's happening to you, you start to have physiological reactions to that. And that makes it very difficult to communicate with people.

Can you talk about like what's because I guess what is it the chicken or the egg is something happening in the body first? Yeah. Or is the body reacting to what's happening in your mind first? Because sometimes it's for me a little bit confusing. It happens in both because when we are facing something that feels threatening, we're

our mind and our body start to try to engage to protect us. And so your heart starts racing, your muscles start pumping, your brain starts thinking differently. And all of those things are so that you can protect yourself. Now, when we're in relationships, that's problematic.

because relationships are two people. It's a dynamic. And so if you're thinking, how do I keep myself safe? How do I keep myself getting what I need? Then you're not really able to see the other person anymore. And so when you're navigating life together, we were talking earlier about kids.

And you've got all these stressors that you have to do together. You have to be able to do those things as a dyad. You have to be able to collaborate. But if there's stress, then you're only going to be able to think about yourself. What do I need? Who's threatening me? Who's not letting me get what I want? And that body and that mind are working together to create that threat response, which makes it really difficult then to collaborate. Yeah. I've

I've been in those moments and it, for me, manifests as like being unable to articulate how I'm feeling because the physical response to everything is so intense. So I guess how would you guide a couple who is experiencing, say, this just break in communication? Yeah.

where one or both are just so deeply entrenched in their own stress and unable to connect to each other and really work as a team, what would be the first step or steps to be able to kind of open up that flow?

When I'm working with a couple and I see this happening, they often don't notice it's happening. So they're blaming some sort of issue on the other person. You're avoidant. You don't know how to communicate. You are lazy. You don't love me, all these types of things. So the very first thing is bringing awareness. It's a huge aha moment for people when I say to them, let's just pause.

I don't think that this is that you are a bad communicator or you're mean or you're lazy or you're not loving or any of these things. Let's actually look at your lives right now. You are managing work. You have little kids. Your mother just went into hospice. Like, oh my gosh, there is so much going on.

Your bodies are having what we know as self-regulation depletion. The stress is spilling over. You are depleted. And then because of that, your physiology is responding. And it's saying, I'm not safe. And it's making you reactive or it's making you shut down. And these two things are making it hard for you to communicate. So let's look at the common enemy, which is stress, how that's manifesting in your body, how you're navigating it in your lives.

That's the first step. When I say that to people, they're like, oh, you're right. Now I don't have to hate my partner so much because it's not really them. We have something that we can work on together. Yeah, it becomes you and me against the problem or the issue rather than against each other. Exactly. Yeah, it is...

It's kind of sneaky how that happens where all of a sudden our energy goes to blaming rather than kind of bringing awareness to what is and what isn't. And I think the mind is the culprit there. I've noticed how powerful the mind is, like where it'll convince me of something negative that's not really negative. Like it's just we really have to catch ourselves. And I love that just point of

you know, kind of pulling back and taking a pause and being like, what is really happening here? And what is really the issue? And the thing with the mind doing that is that is part of that physiological response. So when you are under stress that's gone beyond your ability to cope with it, your mind is going to start to see things as a threat.

And in order to protect yourself, it needs to see those things as a threat. Now, if you and I are having a disagreement, that's not going to be helpful because I'm not going to hear what you have to say. I'm not going to take I'm not going to assume best intent. I'm going to assume you're against me. And my mind is going to do all sorts of things. The mind actually makes it more difficult to process humor.

Show affection. Problem solve. Be curious. When we are under strong levels of stress. And so all of those things are things you need when you're in a disagreement. Like I need to be able to joke with you when I'm in a disagreement so that you know we're on the same side. But if you are under stress, you're not going to laugh. Yes. And then I'm going to see that and I'm going to be like, oh, wait. Mm.

We're not in a good place. And then that's going to make me under more stress. Right. Okay. So we bring awareness to the stress, which is the issue. And then how do we then begin to connect on a level where we're able to communicate our needs, desires, feelings, and also emotions?

like very properly listen, you know, and take in the other person's experience. Yeah. So there's a few things. One is what are you each doing as individuals to stay regulated in those moments? And then what as a team are you going to do to change the dynamics of your life to a certain extent where you're not becoming what's called flooded as often? And so on that individual level, you're really working on how do I recognize my own stress signals?

so that I know that maybe I'm not my best self right now with my partner.

Let's say you're flying home from a work trip and then you get into traffic. The flight was horrible. They lost your luggage. It was, you were hours late. The cab didn't come in time. It was just awful. So you're feeling under a lot of pressure. You've missed some work deadline. You walk in the door. And if you're not aware of how you are feeling inside, the way that you walk in the door is going to negatively impact your relationship because you're either going to be in that fight mode and you're going to say, okay,

Oh, like you didn't want to come welcome me at the door or why is the house such a mess? I was gone all this time and it's disgusting in here. Or you're going to be shut down and maybe you just like walk down to the basement and ignore your partner. If you can recognize I'm stressed, I have compassion for myself. I have every reason to be, but my heart is racing. My muscles are tense.

My mind is starting to think really negative thoughts. What do I need to do to soothe my body before I get in? What are some things that could help me finish the stress cycle?

And that might be breathing. It might be talking about it to somebody, you know, before you walk in the door, call a friend and chat with them. It might be going inside and being like, hey, I had a really rough day. I need to like run around for a second and get some of this energy out. But as the individual, what are you doing?

to process that stress cycle so that it's not impacting the relationship. When you say stress cycle, is there kind of a science to how long that lasts? Just kind of like emotions or what is that? Yeah, so they've done tests and it takes about 20 minutes for stress hormones to dump out of the bloodstream. Okay.

away from the stressor. So if you're like in that taxi, using the example I gave, and there's still traffic and you're getting all these pings on your phone and your partner's calling and saying, I need to tap out, like I need you home. You're not going to get rid of those stress hormones because you're still in it. So you need 20 minutes away from the stressor

in order to go back to baseline. Got it. And that can be really challenging if you're busy with work and busy with your kids and all of those things. But if you know that, then you can advocate for yourself a little bit more and say, I just need 20 minutes. I need to take a shower. I need to go for a walk. I need to just lay in bed with like a pillow over my face and not look at anything right now. But yeah, it takes about 20 minutes. Okay. That's really good to know. Yeah. Yeah.

Can you talk to me about like the differences you see between men and women when it comes to stress responses and how you would maybe guide them differently? Yeah. So I see so many couples and I see so much crossover. I think that when I'm thinking about the actual couples that I see, what I'll tell you is standard with what I see is that men tend to be more withdrawn.

And women tend to get more activated. Yeah. And of course, just tend. So if you're listening and you're like, no, I'm a woman and I tend to be more withdrawn, that's fine. We're all different. But men tend to shut down. And, you know, a lot of people will have the partner, the male partner who is like going into the basement to play video games.

when there's a lot going on in the house that needs to be done or stays at work too long or just won't talk about it. And women tend to become more activated. So they're wanting to talk about it. They're becoming much more of the pursuer. What's going on? We need to get this done. Why aren't you helping me? This is a problem. And what we know about that is obviously that is something that does not work well together because

what the one person needs, the other person is repelled by. So something that's really important is when you're recognizing as one of us more pursuant during stress and one of us more withdrawn, what can we individually do to meet each other in the middle? So whether you're male or female, what do I need to do so that I can meet in the middle? Well, women tend to need more emotional support.

And men tend to need more of what's like experiential intimacy is what it's called. So they want to be doing things.

They would rather, and it might not be super active, but they might have more stress reduction by saying like, let's go work on the yard together. Not I need you to do the lawn, but should we go on a walk? Do you just want to sit and watch a movie together? Like what would be helpful to you? They want more of that experiential stuff. Okay. Women tend to want to be asked, what's stressing you out? What's that like for you? And hear empathetic statements, validation. Okay.

That makes complete sense to me. What do you think that you need? So that's what I usually see. Of course, it can be different depending on the person. Yeah, that's really helpful. I'm curious about like the... Okay, so women tend to want that emotional connection. I feel like there's this part of me, so I will not speak for all women, but raise your hand if you're out there and you feel this, where...

I kind of want my partner to also, and granted, I feel like he does a pretty good job, but want to connect on the level that I want to connect on things. And I don't tend to accept the difference in us. Talk about that. What do you mean? So to your point of men kind of wanting this experiential connection, I think that I want him to want...

to ask me certain questions or me ask him certain questions rather, where it's like an equal-sided experience in the emotional realm. Maybe even in the intellectual realm too. Like, we think about that. And I would say that our...

I actually can be a little bit more withdrawn and he's more pursuant in these moments. So I'll speak for both sides, but I guess overall, I tend to want him to feel how I'm feeling, like know how hard it is, know how challenging it is. And I'm just so curious, like,

What is that? What is that about us that needs someone to know how hard something is, how challenging, how stressful to be in our shoes? Why is that really important? Or what do you observe about that in people?

It makes so much sense. Yeah. Because if you think about yourself in an evolutionary sense, I'm stressed. I want to know that my village recognizes I'm stressed because that means I'm safe. Right. Right. If you think about it in an extreme, like there's a lion chasing me. And so I feel all this distress and everybody around me isn't noticing that.

That feels worse. Yeah. And they're not saying, how do I save you? Like, oh my gosh, let's all get into action and get rid of this lion. Yeah.

That feels awful. So while we're not having lions chase us with our modern stressors, we are experiencing high levels of stress. And it's very normal to want to know that your person is like, oh, wow, I see you. I'm aware you're not going to deal with this alone. And we're going to work on this together. You've got a team. So it makes complete sense. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Thank you for that validation. In those moments where you are connecting about the actual stressor, how do we work as a team to kind of, whether it's dissolve it or be able to metabolize it better? We talked about being able to regulate ourselves. So then when we come together, what does that look like? What questions are we asking and how do we navigate? Yeah.

People tend to accidentally dysregulate each other. Mm-hmm. Tell me more about that. You know, somebody has a stress and the way that somebody responds to it is to like push more into them. I always say think about a balloon that's already filled with a ton, a ton of air.

And this balloon comes to us and it's like, I'm full of stress. And what we do is we blow more air into it by either telling people what they should do, what we think about it, sharing our own feelings about it. So we're blowing all of this air in and it just regulates the other person. They can feel our stress about their stress. What we want to try to do instead is imagine that we're helping that balloon get its air out.

And we're helping that balloon get its air out by being curious, empathetic, validating before we shove anything else in. And so when people are talking about stress with each other, I tell them to try to start in a pretty structured way. Start by saying, it's your turn.

You tell me. Tell me about your stress. What's going on? And just ask questions. Don't side with the person's enemy. You know, oh, my boss is so difficult. Well, I don't know. Your boss didn't make that, you know, I don't think it was that rude what your boss did. But you want to try to just say, what was it that your boss did that was upsetting? Why do you think it was so upsetting for you? What do you wish they did instead? What do you think you need? And then after you really let somebody talk about it,

That's when you say, do you want some ideas? So you wait until they get all of that air out. And then you say, do you have any room to take anything else in? Yes. And then you switch and the other person can have their time on the stage. But when talking about your stress, that is really, really important to do. So important because I love this balloon analogy because I feel like those moments, um,

where maybe you interject as they're releasing the air out of the balloon and you're like, well, have you tried this? Or like kind of trying to solve before you have all the information or before they've actually let it all out.

is stopping the air from coming out. So I just really love that analogy. You can feel it. Yeah. When somebody does that to you, you're like, oh my gosh, okay. And now I'm up against a wall and I'm having to explain this other thing. And you're split. So you're like answering this person's question or like trying to decide whether you want to take that advice, but you're also still venting. There's just a lot. You're like, I don't know where to go with this now. Yes, exactly. I...

I was talking to someone the other day and they were describing their relationship dynamic. One partner, the husband is really unhappy at work.

um, to a pretty extreme level. And the wife in this case, um, my friend was, is a pretty like positive skewing person. So, you know, always just looking at the bright side of things. Um, and the husband finds it to be incredibly annoying and he actually doesn't even want to talk about his stresses because it's just met with, um, um,

i wouldn't say platitudes but like kind of um can we talk about that because i i think

This is an example of a relationship dynamic, definitely not everyone, but where one person is just like, well, why don't you just look at the bright side of things and why that can be a bit harmful to the progress. It's dismissive. Yeah, 100%. And it doesn't, the person doesn't mean any harm. Yeah, of course. I mean, honestly, they're mostly protecting themselves from their own stress about it. So even that behavior is stress-based.

And they're trying to regulate themselves, right? So if we want to look at their behavior from an empathic stance, they're trying to regulate themselves. Their partner's like, I hate my job. They start worrying inside. Are you going to quit? Are we not going to be able to afford anything? What's going to happen? I'm going to regulate myself with positivity. It's very dysregulating to the other person. Because I talked earlier, you said, why do I want validation? Like, why do I want this person to say, I see how hard this is, da-da-da-da-da-da.

Because if you don't get it, then you're alone with the threat. So the person who's sharing the platitudes, they're soothing themselves, but they're not co-regulating with their partner. They're not actually able in that moment to see what their partner needs. Because again, like I talked about earlier, when you're stressed, you become self-focused.

So it's, I need this. I need to know it's going to be okay. Right. I need to know that there's a bright side. Right. And what you're missing is your partner feels threatened. And it's even more threatening to have the lion run by chasing you and to have the person who's supposed to protect you saying, isn't that a pretty lion?

Some of them don't bite. Some of them are friendly. And so you feel alone in that. And that's why that causes so many problems in communication. For sure. And I can imagine that the person who wants to remain positive also doesn't want to get

stuck in that like low or perceived low that the other person is in. Yes. So when you validate someone, it's not necessarily taking on their experience. I guess how can we make sure that we don't

do that because there are situations that I've been in them where you're pretty codependent in the relationship and getting too far in their stuff can then dysregulate you. Oh, yeah. I mean, I completely can validate how this person that's giving platitudes. I don't know this person. It could be for a million reasons, but let's say it's me, but it's not. Let's say it's you, but let's say it's me. When I've been that, it's often because I like can't go there anymore. Yeah. I'm like,

I know. Can we make a choice and change things and be happy? Again, that's about me. And I think that sometimes what's really happening there is that that person feels annoyed, resentful, tired of it, worried, whatever it is. So there also needs to be room for them to express that. So my suggestion is get out of up here and come down here for yourself. Don't come down here for them.

Because I think if this person told their partner what they're actually feeling, it might be something like, I hear you and I feel this.

really frustrated by how long this has been going on. Or I worry that our family is not going to have positive time together because you're always so down. And I love you and I want to help you with that. But my own position here, my own feelings here are worry, frustration, whatever. Talk about your feelings. Right. Because that makes the conversation real. Yeah. Yeah.

And can I imagine in certain dynamics, like kind of jar the other person out of their own experience, loop thought experience or loop feeling experience of like, oh, this is actually not just affecting me. Yeah. And I think can be potentially productive to kind of. Yes. What I want to say is like sometimes when I'm so in my own experience, things can become, uh,

exaggerated the wrong word, but just so magnified, so big. And so if I know also that like, this is a collective experience between me and my friends, me and my family, whatever it is,

then I can gain a little bit of perspective. Yes. If that makes sense. And that's a really important part of relationships. You have to be able to stay in a space where you can see yourself and still see the other person. And again, when we're in these busy lifestyles, a lot of stress, things going on,

we lose sight of one or the other, right? We're either not noticing ourselves anymore. We're not noticing our partner. So in this example you gave, that person can kind of re-inject themselves into the relationship. They're not just this outsider that's like, it's all going to be okay. They're like, hey, I'm a part of this process too. It's hard for me. And, um,

I want us to have space for good times. I want you to figure out how to regulate your stress because we need to have fun sometimes or, you know, I need to know, do you have a plan for what you're going to do? Because it's threatening to me to think we're going to live in this all the time. Right. Um, and so, yeah, when you bring yourself and you present yourself, then you get to be a part of the relationship. Right. Um, yeah.

Where does our stress originate? Meaning where does not the actual stressor, but the way in which we cope with stress, where does that originate? Because I think if I think about myself and if I think about some people close to me that I've observed their stress over many, many years, I'm like, hmm.

That's not just like this moment, this situation. I'm like, where was this either learned or perhaps, I don't know if it's connected to any trauma and how we respond to stress. I guess, what have you seen? There's a lot under it. We tend to have, we tend to develop the way we respond to things in two ways, either reactionary or through modeling. So reactionary is when we've seen something, we've experienced something and we do the opposite.

So let's say you grew up in a family that was very loud when things were upsetting. They yelled at each other. Your reactionary stress response might be to be withdrawn.

So you might have looked at that and said, that's very dysregulating or uncomfortable or doesn't lead to anything good. I'm going to be quiet when things are upsetting because it's not good. Sometimes we do what's been modeled to us. And so we might have a very loud family yells at each other, all sorts of things. And we also do that.

So reactionary modeling, huge trauma can play a big role. So if you've experienced trauma, your nervous system reacts to things differently. And so where maybe somebody who didn't have that type of trauma, you know, they they see I talk about this in the book. They might see a look on somebody's face and they might not read into that.

Like they're just like, that's just a look. It's not a big deal. How are you doing today? And they go into the interaction feeling safe. Maybe somebody else grew up in a family where that look on the face meant that their parent was drunk or their parent was going to scream. And so they go into the interaction thinking, oh, this person, they're going to yell at me. They're going to fire me. Like what's and because of that, then their heart starts racing. All of those things start happening. And so modeling. Yeah.

reactionary, and then trauma. They can all have big influences. And is there a way that we can connect on that with our partners? So I know it's like a few steps into maybe like the therapeutic process of understanding like how we respond to stress, but it's really helpful to know, I think, about another person. And especially if it's your partner, you know, there is that capacity to know them deeply and be vulnerable, but

it would, I think, elicit more empathy and compassion if I knew that, say, my husband had an experience or maybe this was his experience growing up and that's why he either reacts a certain way or handles stress in a certain way. So do you recommend kind of getting into that between couples? And when does that happen? How does that happen? Because I feel like I'm just going to speak for some people, like if they haven't,

dealt with it in therapy or in some sort of therapeutic way that it either is inaccessible or feels uncomfortable to talk about. Yeah. So if not, if in therapy, great, because somebody else is helping you do that. If not therapy, it's probably many, many slow conversations where there are aha moments along the way. I think that it's important to think about it on two different levels. One is

How, where does this manifest from? Like you said, it can bring so much empathy. If I know that the reason my husband gets quiet and withdrawn is because maybe when he was growing up, I'm not saying this is how he is. I'm just using it as an example. But like maybe when he was growing up, if he spoke up, he got shut down. So he just doesn't do it. Well, now if I see that, I can say, I see that.

okay, I see that you're being quiet because you're overwhelmed. This comes from somewhere else. I can give you time because this isn't against me. You're not doing this to be a jerk to me. You're doing this because this is your thing.

It comes from a pain point. It's hard for you. I can give you space because of that, right? The other thing that I think is really important is when we reflect on ourselves, thinking about this is a little more complex, but thinking about how we act.

And what was that like to experience those actions? So if you're somebody who gets stressed out and you become agitated and you yell and you get more aggressive, if you saw that growing up, what was that like for you? What was it like for you to have people yell at you or to have people stomp around when they were upset or get irritable? Mm-hmm.

And I think when you can connect with that, you can also have empathy for your impact on others. And what I often say to people when they keep going back into the same thing again and again that impacted them negatively, but they do it anyway, is why is it more important to you to keep your legacy, your family legacy going than it is for you to change your behavior for your partner?

for your new family. And that's usually a big moment for people because they're like, I don't want to keep the legacy of yelling going. I want my new family to be peaceful and all of these types of things. But sometimes we don't actually reflect enough on the way that our behavior is impacting another person. So yes, empathy for the other person, but also understanding for how does what you're doing impact.

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I'm getting back on my cooking game. I feel like with the dawn of spring upon us, I'm like, okay, girl, let's come out of our hibernation and just start freaking cooking. I always love to have an incredible baked good, a bread, you know,

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It's pretty phenomenal. And you're not sacrificing the texture or the taste. It's fluffy. It's yummy. It's chewy. Y'all, I would not be going on and on if this wasn't true. I am pretty picky when it comes to my breads and food in general. So I'm excited for you to try Hero Bread. My favorite are the Hawaiian rolls. Hands down, I will just like take them back

A few of them in a single sitting. I'll make like mini breakfast sandwiches. I'll make little sliders. They're so freaking good. But Hero Bread is offering our listeners 10% off your order when you go to hero.co and use code ALMOST30 at checkout. That's ALMOST30 is the code at H-E-R.C-O. I think that is one of the most underrated ways that we can make our partner feel safe. Mm-hmm.

and seen is to bring awareness to and recognize our own behavior and how it might be affecting others. Because I think just self-awareness makes me feel safe in my friendships, in my romantic relationship with my family. Like it is, it's such a big one. And when we are overwhelmed and stressed,

it's hard to be that self-aware because we're so totally in it. Like, I mean, I've even just experienced it this week where I'm like, oh my God, like I don't recognize myself in moments. Cause I'm like, yeah, but we just don't, we just don't know. And it's very strange. And then to think about

like how my husband's experiencing it. I'm having like an aha in this conversation. And what was that like for you to experience the same? Because if you think of it, it's often hard, no matter how empathetic we are, to really put ourselves in someone else's shoes. We have like a little barrier. But then if we can say, what was it like for me

And that often brings up the real emotions where, you know, sometimes there's even tears in the therapy room where the person's like, it was awful when I got yelled at. And they'll cry. And then they'll look at their partner finally for the first time and be able to say, it must be awful for you.

Yeah. When I get that way. Yeah. When I get critical. Because it was awful for me and I'm sorry I do that for you or to you. And that is so powerful. It's so powerful to say, I actually can see maybe how you feel. And I'm sorry about that. Yeah. Do you believe that... I feel like I've read this and learned this somewhere, but that our...

Romantic relationships are meant to heal perhaps what we didn't get when we were younger. What do you think about that?

Yeah. So the way that we engage with others is based off of how safe we felt in relationships growing up with parents, the world, friends, all of those types of things. They all have that influence. And the really beautiful thing is, is that with new relationships that can improve if there was any lost security. So if you don't feel safe in relationships and then you're in a relationship where things start to be different,

People respond differently to conflict, to stress, all of those types of things. It is healing. It can create a, it's called earned secure attachment. It can create this earned because it's been earned from this relationship security inside you and within the relationship. And so if you don't feel safe in relationships, it doesn't mean you're never going to feel safe in any.

When you're in a relationship with another person who's willing to say, I messed up too. I struggle. I don't respond to things well. Sometimes I get overwhelmed and I do X, Y, and Z. And I'm willing to repair. I'm willing to take accountability. I'm willing to hear you out. Those things are incredibly healing. Yeah. Yeah. That taking accountability kind of goes together with that self-awareness that I think is

um, can really create a safe environment within relationship. And it's not about like tit for tat. No. You know, I think that's kind of the shadow version of what we're talking about. It's like understanding what you are bringing to the table. Yeah. Recognizing that, owning that, apologizing if necessary. But I think oftentimes, um,

That's enough. You know, there doesn't need to be this like groveling, apologetic whole performance. It's just like...

wow, like when I said that, that must've really hurt. I'm saying, you know, I'm sorry. Even in passing. I think sometimes, you know, when we're reading like relationship breath, best practices and all of those things, it makes us think we have to have these like serious sit down conversations where we're like, yes, you go first. What are you feeling? That's not me. Yeah.

What it really is, is like as things come to you saying it. Yes. You know, like you're in the car and all of a sudden you're like, oh, my God, the thing I did the other day, that was really rude. Yes. And I was just thinking so and so used to that to me. And I'm going to work on not doing that anymore. And that can be the end of the conversation.

But doing that, having these like little moments with your partner tells them, okay, like we're doing this together. You think about us, you reflect, you're willing to take your own accountability, but it doesn't always need to be a really big thing. Yes. Thank you for saying that. Because I feel like that's something I'm definitely working on where...

I kind of hold these things for these moments of like, let's talk about it. Yeah. The magical moment. Yeah. Rather than, and my husband's really good at this, the in the moment, in passing, being able to say things, moving on, like just having it be a part of our relationship DNA to just be truthful, be honest. Yeah. Express ourselves, listen to each other, be respectful of things. Yeah.

So I'm really glad you said that. You mentioned earlier humor. Yeah. Which Chris is amazing at this. My husband is too. Yeah, my husband too. And I'm trying, I have to consciously remember. To do it. To do it. Which is fine. You know, I'm just like, this is me. But it just, it helps so much. It helps so much. I saw something, I don't know if it was a video, Vogue.

With social media, I'm like, where did I see this? It's like everywhere and nowhere at all at the same time. When the couple fought, they had to wear these like really silly hats. Oh, I saw that. What were they wearing? Like birthday hats. They were like tiny and like hilarious and just idiotic. Like a pom-pom on them or something. And they had to wear that when they were in a disagreement. And I was like, this is genius. It is. Because...

Tell us why. Tell us why humor is so important in these moments and how we can inject it.

So there's several ways to complete the stress cycle, right? So anytime you're amped up, you're under distress. One is laughter. We know that. Science shows us that laughter reduces those stress hormones in the body. It makes sense. It's a cue that we're safe. Nobody's laughing when they're actually in danger. So if I can laugh or you can tell a joke, it cues my brain. We're in a safe moment.

I'm not going to die because we're laughing. And so it's very, very helpful in stressful moments. I mean, it's why people laugh in inappropriate moments at funerals and things like that, because it reduces the stress. When I talk about this with people, they often say, well, that would make me so mad if I was in an argument and my partner made a joke.

I don't like that. I don't like humor. And again, that makes sense. You're threatened. Your partner's joking. And your thought is, I'm not safe because this person doesn't hear how bad it is. So there is a time and a place. Completely. And if you make a joke and your partner can't laugh, what it usually means is that they're under too much stress, that they're flooded, and they need to have that 20-minute break.

So for anybody listening, if you're not able to laugh during a disagreement, it actually likely means that you shouldn't be communicating at all. Oh, good one. Because you are in a flooded, stressed state to the point that your mind has changed and you're not going to be a curious person, a humorous person, an affectionate person or a problem solving person anymore. You're just not.

So somebody makes a joke and you're like, that wasn't funny. I've done that. So that's why I'm mimicking it. That's not funny. What you need to do in this moment is say, that's not funny. And I need to take a break. Yes. Because it's not going to go anywhere good. If you hear a joke,

and you didn't laugh, but you can recognize it was funny. It's so important to not be stubborn in that moment. I know. You got to, yeah. You got to overcome that. And you have to be able to be like, that wasn't funny, but it was a little funny. Yeah, totally. Yeah, there is kind of that internal, like, don't give them credit for that. Yeah, like... In that moment. You didn't snap me out of my attitude. Yes, exactly. Because I feel like we get...

A little addicted to the feeling, even though we want to be out of it. The power. I want to have power in this argument. How dare you take my power away with how funny you are. But if you can actually say something like that, it will redirect the entire conversation. Yeah. In a positive way. So I always tell people to narrate what you're thinking inside.

Because it's actually kind of nonsense. Okay, tell me more. So your partner says something funny and you're thinking, that wasn't funny. Say it out loud. That wasn't funny. Yeah.

You're mad and you want to stomp out of the room and call your partner a nasty name. Like, you know what? I'm about to call you a really nasty name and I'm about to stomp out of the room. There's something about that that actually, even if it's not humorous, it kind of injects the internal world and it takes some of that power play stuff away. Yes. So if you narrate your internal world, sometimes it can snap you out of that.

A little bit. I love that. But humor, so important. One of the ways to complete the stress cycle. So if you see somebody doing that with you, if you could recognize it as they're attempting to actually help us right now, they're recognizing the temperature went up and they're trying to turn it down. I might not think the joke is funny, but can I at least appreciate the work they're trying to do to keep us connected? Right.

Instead of letting us just regulate into separate. Yes. And I think it's, I think over time in a romantic relationship or in particular, if you're injecting humor, you can kind of get to the point where you're injecting the right humor. Because I feel like I've had moments with my husband where he's

you know, he'll be injecting humor, but it's like, he'll be like, are you done? Are you, or no, he'll be like, are you done being mad? Like later. And you're like, no. And I'm like, that's not the right humor right now. But then he'll say other things. And I'm like, okay, that was like, that was funny. Okay. We're, you know, we're getting there. So I think giving one another a little bit of grace as you get to know these moments around

Around like what you can say and what's like we said earlier, like appropriate and really kind of massages this moment rather than creates more tension. Well, there's absolutely wrong and wrong and right humor. Yes, completely. Sarcasm.

is wrong humor. Like not the playful sarcasm, but when you're being contemptuous, mocking somebody, any of those types of things where people are like, well, I thought it was funny. You're not actually being funny. You're trying to take power. That's different than actual and being playful and being funny. Exactly. You can feel it. Playfulness feels different. And like you said, as you get to know somebody, you know what they think is funny or is not funny. And so...

my husband's great at it. He really recognizes it. It works with me to tell me that I've been grumpy for, you know, like, he's like, how, how many more minutes are we having a grumpy list? Totally. I can do it. 20 minutes, an hour. You just need to let the family know. And then all of a sudden I'm like, all right. Yeah, you're right. I've been holding onto this for a little too long, but there's other things that he does that I'm like, that's not

I need you to take this seriously right now. And I think you do get to know that about each other over time. Completely. Yeah, because I think, I guess I want to just talk about the evolution of a relationship a little bit because I feel like sometimes we enter into a relationship, especially a new relationship. Let's talk about a new relationship. And we...

have these high expectations of like how things should be from the jump. And if it's not, there's something wrong. Um, we don't have like a healthy perspective on what needs to grow within a relationship over time and with experience and with, you know, connection. So, um, I guess, what would you say to newer couples who are like, wow, I've really found someone that I deeply care about and feel a connection to, I feel safe with, um,

But as they navigate kind of those first stressful moments that could potentially rock a relationship. But actually, I feel like those are the moments in the beginnings that make them stronger. Yeah. So our relationships go through four different phases.

honeymoon, lust, whatever you want to call that. That's where it's like, this person's amazing. I love that they leave their dirty socks on the floor. I like picking up after that, whatever it is. And then you start to go through a stage that's like a realization stage where you're like, I don't know if I like those socks on the floor. Like, what am I realizing about this person? What do I think? If you make it past that, then the next phase you're likely going to go through is tension. Right.

Any couple that is together a long time goes through that phase. And it's when there's a new big stressor that you have to address together. So you move in together, you have a baby together, somebody gets sick in one of your families, somebody loses a job. Like a real stressor, happy or not, something you have to face together. And you get into this tension phase because you want the other person to navigate that stressor the way you do. Yes.

And this is where people will get caught up. So for like a newer, younger couple who's moving through life, maybe they've just gotten married or they're about to do something big together. I would want them to recognize it's a normal phase where you're going to wish that the other person was like you. And you're going to say, I wouldn't have done it that way. You know, if

That's not how I would have navigated my mom being sick. Or if that was me, I would have done that. And you're going to headbutt. And the couples who are able to make it past that move into an acceptance stage where they actually see who their partner is. They see their partner's limitations. They see their partner's skills. They see their own limitations and what they bring to the table. And they work together so that they have a relationship where both of them gets what they need. Hmm.

So they stop head-butting when there's a tension. And instead, they're able to be non-defensive, non-critical, and step back and say...

I know that this isn't your usual way. Maybe you're not as structured as me. I love you because you're not as structured as me. I need structure. How can we do that together? Instead of you're so lazy. Why don't you know how to do this? You're not sure. Whatever the difference is. And so for new couples, you want to work on how do we get through that tension phase?

by being co-regulators, which means that we're there for each other. We help make hot situations cooler instead of making them worse. And how do we create a relationship where we both get what we need? Yeah, powerful. And I am curious too, as we kind of navigate certain relationships where kids come into the picture, do you feel like this process, if done correctly,

in a healthy way before kids sets you up for the stresses that kids bring because it's a whole other it's stressful but then there are also other human beings in the equation that just really add intensity to the dynamic kids add the most intensity

And if you're able to practice with other stressors first and you kind of see, okay, we can even with intensity, we can get through it. Yes. We don't tend to go at each other's throats. We tend to want to find good negotiations that work for both of us. That's probably going to mostly carry over, not in a beautiful way. It's going to be messy at first.

I think that if you notice, if you want kids and you notice that you and your partner really struggle when there's a stressor, my suggestion would be work on building those skills before you have kids because kids brings up many layers of stress.

kids are not just about who are we as a couple and also who are these human beings we want to have a good life. It brings up all your old stuff. So there is a ton going on emotionally. And then it's stressful. Less sleep, costs money, lots of places to be, all of those types of things. And so before having kids,

You know, in premarital counseling, they always want you to have these conversations like, how do you want to raise your kids? I actually think the more important conversation is how do you deal with stress? Yes, completely. Do you shut down? Do you become mean? What do you do? And how are we going to deal with that together? Because we're going to be stressed. Yes. And we need to be able to navigate this from a place that's grounded and kind and that recognizes we're not going to feel our best. Yes. And still be kind and grounded with each other. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. I just noticed how sneakily in parenthood, at least in my experience for the mom, um, cause I'm like the primary caretaker, I would say just cause my husband works most days during the week. Um,

Where the self-care goes out the window a little bit, working out, moving, sleeping, terrible. I try my best to nourish myself, but it's those things I'm noticing that activate or kind of deactivate my ability to metabolize stress. Yeah.

And I'm just so thankful we're having this conversation because I feel very in it. And so I'm excited to kind of have a conversation with my partner where I can kind of bring him into my experience a little bit more because it is, especially with kids, if you're not...

parenting side by side, 24 hours a day, you can be having a really different experience. And I think that's the more common version. And it doesn't mean one is harder than the other. It's just different. And so if we're not connecting and updating each other on like what's been hard, what's been amazing, what I'm grateful for, what I'm like so frustrated with, then you might be living completely different lives and like...

not seeing or really having compassion for the other person. Absolutely. And that can make it challenging sometimes to notice what's really going on. Even if you're not, even if there was a world where you're living the same life somehow, which isn't going to happen, you're going to see different things as stressful or not stressful. Yes. Right. So

your partner might be like, I don't find the yard being out of control stressful. This is a problem for me, which is why I'm using it. It stresses me out. Yeah, totally. If I drive up to my house and the yard looks like a mess, I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so stressed now. When's this going to get done? And my partner might like drive past that every day and it does nothing to him at all. And so not only do you have to really figure out how do I...

see my partner's world and understand what they're up against. But also I need to understand what they think is stressful on this list. Yes. Because I might discount it. I might think this is no big deal that we're busy all weekend taking the kids to birthday parties. And that might really stress them out. And then we're on different pages about what these things feel like and look like. So knowing their world and then also knowing what's stressful. Yeah, that's super...

I feel like that was something that was so interesting to observe between me and my husband where he would notice something that would kind of activate me. And I'm like...

this doesn't act like this doesn't annoy you and to your point about like yeah I'm a very visual person so am I so if my house is a mess and even if it's not dirty it's just messy I'm like I'm unwell I cannot function properly yes and he's like but why does it need to look perfect all the time I'm like it's not about

being perfect. I don't think maybe we can dig into it later, but I'm like, I don't think it is. It's just helps me to feel calm. You want to know something about that? And when, yes, please listen up. There's all these studies that show that women have higher levels of cortisol when things aren't aesthetically pleasing. So they get more stressed out when there's clutter or whatever. And

But the studies, they never say why that is. It's just like, oh, women just can't see clutter. That's not why it is. It's because you know that you're the one that has to figure out where all that clutter is going to go. So you don't just, an example, my husband, he never notices cobwebs.

Love him. He just doesn't see them. And he, the basement is kind of his zone. I'll go down there for a movie night and I'm like, oh my God, there's cobwebs. What do I do with these cobwebs? I'm not just annoyed with the cobwebs though. My mind is now thinking I'm going to have to go up and get a dust rag and I'm going to have to wipe that. And then, and if I don't do it now, I'm

If I don't do it now, I'm going to have to do it tomorrow. And if I don't do it tomorrow, I'm going to come down here in a year and they're going to be even worse. And the ceiling's going to have to be repainted. And I'm going to have to call to repaint it. And this is not dramatic. This is really real. And so women, they do get more level, higher levels of cortisol when they see clutter than men do because women have been socialized to figure out what's going to happen with that clutter from beginning to end. Hmm.

And so there's a very real reason that we don't like things to look that way. Yeah. Yep. Thank you. I'm bringing that to my attention. Yeah. And you can say this isn't just like about aesthetics. It's really that when I walk in the door and there's shoes everywhere, I actually don't know if I would mind them if I knew that.

that they would be gone by tonight. Yeah, completely. But I mind because I know that the closet is dirty and we can't fit the shoes in there. And that to get the shoes in there, I'm going to have to take stuff. I just, there's a million processes in my head. So no, I don't get to just chill and relax. Yes. And is that also a factor of like women, do women have the ability, gift or curse to

Think about multiple, multiple things at once. Multiple responsibilities, needs of people. I feel like this is generalization, but men kind of can be a bit more compartmentalized and linear in a beautiful way that I wish I had sometimes. Yeah, because they're allowed to be. Okay.

And so we're socialized from a very young age to notice many varying factors at the same time. Yes. We're socialized to notice how people feel, where they are in a room, what we're going to need to do from start to finish. And it's modeled to us. So we watch other women doing that. We watch other women, you know, they're planning the birthday party.

And they know that they have to go get the ingredients. They have to then cook them, but they have to do it at a certain time. So they have to like do all this backtracking. They also know who's in the room and how they're all going to feel and da, da, da, da. Yeah. And men socially, and like this is changing, but even as young children, what's modeled to them is you're allowed to do your task. You're allowed to watch your football game. You're allowed to play your golf.

You're allowed to hammer on your tool bench. You're allowed to go to work. And that's what your job is to think in those moments. And somebody else making the mechanics behind the scenes work

So that when you get home from the job or when you get home from the golf game or when you're done watching the football game, there are groceries in the fridge. The counter has been wiped off and you don't notice these things. And again, this is an exaggeration. All couples are different. Mine's actually pretty equitable. My husband does all the grocery shopping and still my mind ticks differently than his. I was at a wedding several years ago where the speech that was given was,

The guy, the dad said, you know, men get nothing box time where their brain gets to be a nothing box and women don't get nothing box time. Their box is full of all these circuits that are moving all of the time. And he said to his son, the one thing I hope is that you give your wife nothing box time and that you get your circuits moving. And so, yeah, women are constantly having to think, to process, to

They have to do this mental load stuff, emotional labor stuff that people are talking more about. And it's not that their partners necessarily are problematic. It's just that we know to think through these things. We know to look at these things. And it's going to take a little bit more time for husbands and partners to be able to also say...

oh, if I'm going to go and do X, Y, and Z before I do that, I'm probably going to need to pack the kids' lunches or whatever it is. Yeah, this is really powerful distinctions, I feel like, to...

Just validate people. You know, I think especially this example, it can be crazy making for women. Very crazy making for women. And to not be able to explain it or feel like you're too much because you're like so stressed about this one little thing, but it's actually 70 things to make that one thing happen. So thank you for explaining. Yeah. This has been so good. Thanks. I'm really, really, really happy.

thankful that you came in person. We were able to deep dive into this. I think it's

Something that like, we're not talking about enough. We're talking about kind of all these other relationship things. Yeah. And to navigate stress is to your point, something we should be talking about well before we talk about our, how are we raising our children or anything like that? Cause all of us stress happens every day. It happens every day. It impacts how you think it impacts how you feel. And it's,

actually gets in the way of the communication skills you already have. Mm-hmm. You know not to be critical. I know. You know not to be defensive. Like, people know these things. Yes. People aren't stupid. If they could do them, they would do them. Yeah. But they...

They don't because they get physiologically overwhelmed and it just prevents it. And so if we can learn how to change how we're reacting in our bodies and also to pay attention to our environment's mental load, we can say, oh, maybe my wife is really overwhelmed and that's why she's been distant or that's why she doesn't want to have sex or whatever it is. Let's limit the stress and our relationship will start to improve instead of me saying, oh, she's always critical or...

Hmm.

Tell stress do us part. How to heal the number one issue in our relationships is out now. This should be a couple, a couple's little book club. I do book club with my husband. Oh, you do? That's so sweet. Well, it really helps us to, if it's a specific thing we want to dive into. Yeah. He loves to read. I like to read and to be able to come together like once a week and just kind of talk about what we've read and ask each other questions. That's fun. It's a nice like

touch point. Yeah. And then you can kind of get into the like real things you want to talk about. I think this is a perfect one. That is a good one for a couple book club. Yes. Because there's, I also talk a lot about both people's perspectives. It's not just like woman against man. It's everybody is struggling. Yeah. A hundred percent. Thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. Really, really powerful. All right, y'all. Thank you for listening. We'll see you on the next one.

Thank you so much, Elizabeth, for joining me in the studio. You can follow her on Instagram at LizListens. The book is Till Stress Do Us Part. We appreciate you so much. We love you guys. We will see you on the road this year. Thank you for supporting us throughout this journey. And thank you for being an Almost 30 fan. Love y'all. Love y'all. Bye.

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