EP 86: Why Brands Are Paying Small Creators BIG Money (And How to Get Your Share)
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Hey everybody, welcome back to the Aquaria podcast. I'm your host Jenny Wright and on this podcast we talk about all things list building and launches, memberships, SLOs, you name it, we talk about it. Today is going to be all about sponsorships and how to attract people to what you're doing so that they can get exposure, you can get exposure, and a little money in between. And our guest today, I'm really excited because we've had a couple of really interesting conversations in the build-up to this podcast and I'm glad you're here. So welcome, Justin.

Jenny, I'm so thrilled to be here. It's going to be a blast. Absolutely. And you are a sponsorship coach and the founder of Creator Wizard. So how exciting is that? And one thing I didn't even know about you until I sort of was like getting to know you is that you used to be a full time creator. You used to spend a ton of time building up brand deals and working in the space. And you even had an agency or maybe you even still have that agency.

Yeah, so I'm still a full time creator, actually, along with my wife. I mean, we've been doing this since 2009 was the first YouTube channel. So we have personally done over 550 sponsorships made over $5 million doing it. So it's like, it has been our primary revenue stream for many years. And in fact, we just did a partnership with a brand just a couple days ago. So it's like still very much an active thing that we're doing. But yeah, in 2015,

I decided to kind of diversify our income as a family. We were like, you know, everything's going really well right now as creators, but people are just not going to watch us on YouTube for 30 years. We've got to figure out something else here. And so that was when I launched an influencer marketing agency to get partnerships for other creators. So it afforded me kind of a really interesting opportunity

alternative perspective where I was now kind of in the boardrooms with a lot of these brands and agencies where they were like, Hey, we don't want to just pay you April and Justin, like five, 10 K. We want to spend a million dollars across 200 creators. So it was just like a very different conversation. And this is what ultimately led me to start educating creators about the process of it. That's amazing.

That's fantastic. And I use, so there's a lot of people who listen to this podcast who are either in the creator space, but we also use sponsorships in different ways, right? But this applies like with, with summits and launches that I do, you absolutely can have sponsors in that space and even had some big brands. I've, I've gotten some pretty, pretty good size like SAS companies to participate as sponsors and put some good dollar figures into that. Cause you know, we're exposing them to a lot of different people, but yeah,

My thing that I kind of want to start off with is at the time we're recording this, it is absolute social media chaos. Okay. And has been for a little bit. And I don't know if we're going to see an end, you know, better than me. What are you seeing? How is it impacting this sponsorship space? Are the brands nervous?

I mean, I think there's so many micro trends and macro trends going on at the same time that are affecting the way that sponsors, brands, and advertisers look at investing in this space. I mean, the first and most obvious one is the death of the follower.

I think Jack Conte did a really interesting keynote at South by Southwest last year. This was the title of his talk, which was basically like over the last basically 10 to 15 years, the entire social media ecosystem has been built around this concept of a follower, right? You go and you follow content that you enjoy, whether it's an individual creator or a media company or whatever. And the inherent or the implicit promise is like I hit follow on this thing. I want to see more of that content.

But what has happened over and that used to be the case, right? Like if you look back at like YouTube, you would go to your subscriptions feed. That was like a behavior that everyone went like, oh, I'm going to go see what, you know, with the latest video from this creator that I love. But over time, what has happened is that these social media platforms have deprioritized that signal of following something to in favor of,

viewer or user behavior where it's like, okay, we're only going to prioritize the content and show it to this person based on what they previously watched. And so what happened is that you saw over time organic reach basically for everyone, creators, media companies plummet in the favor of just like the platforms putting their thumb on the scale algorithmically

to basically what they thought these people wanted to see. And so this has wreaked a lot of chaos for brands, media companies, creators, because that implicit promise is no more. And so I think that this means there's a lot of different downstream implications of this shift. Number one, as a creator, you can no longer rely on if someone says they want to follow you,

It's not necessarily going to be the case that they see your content, which is why a lot of the stuff that you talk about is so important, which is building your list and building that direct relationship and connection with that audience or that follower member so that you can be able to access them in a way that doesn't rely on the algorithm. But even more profoundly, in my universe, I talk a lot with advertisers and brands where

Follower count used to be a pretty reliable proxy for influence. Sure. Right? Where you could look at someone, oh, they have 100,000 followers or a million followers or something. But that really isn't that meaningful anymore because you can't, you know, you could hold two people up side by side, one with a million followers and one with 10,000, and they're getting the same average viewership. Yeah.

or listenership, which is crazy to think about these days. And so brands have just had to start adopting different metrics to try to judge where they should invest their dollars.

Okay, that's fascinating to me. And I've seen that too, on my own, like FYP, or, you know, with my own, like what I follow on YouTube. So all the creators that I've been following for years on YouTube, I'm not seeing them pop up in my like, you know, suggested or anything like that. And it seems to only be going on like what was most recently watched.

which in our household happens to be a bunch of golf videos and it just keeps coming up. And for me, like Depeche Mode remixes, which I love. Oh yeah, there we go. I love Depeche Mode. Right? But I'm not seeing some of the other creators that I've specifically followed to see their content. So it's a search thing.

How are brands, you just mentioned that brands are having to look at different metrics and parameters so that they can know what's going to be an effective campaign or how it's going to go. What are they looking at differently versus like follower count and all that stuff that they did before? I mean, there's definitely a flight to what I would call kind of hyper-neutralized

niche creators and media companies where, you know, even though this person may not be getting millions of views or even hundreds of thousands of views, if they have a very specific focus of their content, especially or, or their audience psychographics, essentially they're willing to invest in, in those kind of smaller creators because it feels as though it's a more reliable platform.

vehicle for the investment. I can share a quick actual story, real anecdote of how this works. So I have a coaching client of mine. Her name is Dr. Alex, and she runs a business called Digital Pathology Place. So she has a podcast, very large LinkedIn following, newsletter, et cetera. And so again, digital pathology is like, how much more niche can you get? She is a veterinarian, like a doctor,

And so she's not getting, you know, tens of thousands of views. She's getting thousands, maybe hundreds per episode on her podcast. But who's in the audience? It's

the veterinarians, the physicians, the lab technicians, the people who work at these medical devices companies and things like that. And so you're sitting here thinking, you go and you look at these advertisers who are these big biopharmaceutical companies or medical device companies, and they're like, okay, we've got $100 million to spend on advertising. Where are we going to spend this money? And so it's kind of like you think about it, it's crazy. Like

It's kind of hard to spend this money because it has to go after a really niche audience. And so they look at someone like Dr. Alex and they're just backing up a dump truck full of money under her driveway. And they're like, how can we work with you? Sponsor your podcast. Sponsor your LinkedIn. Hey, can we fly you out to our...

our industry trade show, the biggest trade show in our conference and be in our booth and like do a meet and greet and kind of be an ambassador. And so there's all these really interesting partnership opportunities that she's being afforded, not because of her following on social media or how many people were like listening to her podcast. It's because of who she represents in her industry. And so I think that this is, this is actually the majority of the types of people that I work with is

these folks who have a very specific niche and they have these really interesting partnership opportunities that they're forging that may not necessarily conform to a standard brand deal. That fascinates me. That is, okay. I've been-

I have been preaching for over a decade that the size of your list or the size of your following shouldn't matter as much as the quality of the people in it. And back when I started, everybody was like, oh, you can't be on my summit or you can't be part of my thing unless you have a 5,000 person email list. And I felt that that number was so arbitrary and I felt like it was incredibly unfair. And the reason being is I'm not a fan of that.

I started a six-figure business with 358 people on my email list. I didn't need 5,000 people. I'm very niched in, and a lot of people are, and I was able to make the money basically from being completely niched in and building up a brand that way, right?

And so when I hear you say this, it's very validating to hear that in the space of like in social and with these brands that they're looking for a niche in people like Dr. Alex sounds awesome. I might even check that podcast out, even though I have no, like I have no relation to it, but it just sounds cool. But it is incredibly interesting to me that brands are recognizing the individuality that people are creating within their small communities and how that can be a standout for brand influence. Yeah.

100%. And it's funny, you mentioned the 5,000 list minimum to be on these summits. A lot of creators and media companies have experienced a very similar conversation when they've tried to reach out to brands or companies and say, hey, we'd love to partner with you. And they're like, we only work with people who have 10,000 followers or a certain size of the audience. And so I think there's a lot of parallels here for sure. 100%. Absolutely. I get to work. I'm very lucky. I get to work with some SaaS companies.

companies that sponsor some of the work that I do with my clients. And they don't care about the size. They care about the people that are in it. And so you get companies like Ecamm, which is a software company that I just adore. And they're like, no, we don't care about the size. We care about the people in it. And so sure, we'll throw some sponsorship stuff your way and get in front of those customers. And they love it. I mean, it's worked out really, really well for them because they've kind of been

a little bit more like guerrilla marketing with it and they're not being so snobby about it. And I just like the fact that the industry is kind of moving that way. I think it's great.

You know, what's funny is that you're the second person in this week who has, who is sponsored by Ecamm or has told me about how they are in that way and how awesome they are. And I think this is an important point actually, which is that regardless of whether you're a brand or if you're a creator or a media company or a podcast or newsletter operator,

Word travels fast about the type of person that you are and the type of relationship, the experience working with you. And I talk a lot about, you know, regardless of how big or small your audience size is, there's a lot that you can do to endear yourself to prospective partners that have nothing to do with how large your audience is.

A lot of it is this small game stuff, right? It's the like professionalism. It's the responsiveness. It's like being easy to work with. If they come back with a few edits or revisions on the work that you're about to bring to life and you don't be like, how dare you violate my creative genius? You say-

Sure. No problem. All takes 30, 30 seconds to record a new voiceover. Not a big deal. And again, like I have had, I've had the experience of working with people like that. It's crazy. They're so short sighted and they're just, you know, they, I'm never going to hire that person again, you know, when I ran this agency, cause it was just a nightmare to deal with them. And so I think not enough people realize that there's so much power in forging these relationships because ultimately that's going to lead to renewals and more money for you down the line.

Completely, completely. And I don't know if you agree with me, but I really think that 2025

because everything is in such flux and we have so much chaos with the, you know, the social platforms, right? We lost TikTok for 12 hours, right? Everybody started going over to, you know, Lemonade and Blue Sky and Red Note and everything else. And then TikTok comes back and everybody's, you know, the funny thing about those last, this is my last video on TikTok. So I'm just going to tell, I'm going to spill the tea and then they're back 12 hours later. But what I find fascinating is with that chaos and,

Building community is so important, right? And having the followership either in your email list or on your sub stack or some way to have a newsletter is vitally important and not never so much. So I think as this year because of everything that's just been so blatantly chaotic. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, let's talk about another huge trend, which is just AI, you know, because I think that there's like a, you know, there's going to be a already is, but even more so just a massive proliferation in the amount of AI generated content that's going to flood all of our feeds over the next year or two. And, you know, you've seen these things about, oh, AI influencers and like who's going to need creators anymore? Can you just like

you know, this, this is like a AI program and you could Photoshop them holding your product and talking about it and all this stuff. Right. And so there's, you know, I follow all this, all these kinds of crazy threads on X and things like that. And, you know, I think that, well, number one, I think that there's, I have two predictions. Number one, there is going to be a subset, a non-trivial subset of the human population. I think that is going to reject a lot of that. They're going to say, well,

I don't want anything to do with AI. Like I want real human authentic connection. And if I see a badge on this post on social media that says this is AI enhanced or whatever, I'm going to block it. I'm going to mute it. I don't want to have anything to do with AI. And so I think there is going to be this big contingent of the human population who rejects that, this stuff. The second thing I'll say is similar to your point about building community. This is why candidly I wrote the book and why I'm launching an in-person event.

Because I think that, uh, being able to take those relationships out of the internet and build them in person is going to be one, uh, insulation, uh,

you know, guarantee that people can have to establish these real connections in person. And so I don't have all the answers, honestly. Like, you know, I think a lot of people's businesses are going to be disrupted. But I think it kind of comes back to those core principles about what people want, which is real authentic connection. And what can you do in your business to help safeguard that? I have...

Two questions, and then I have a follow-up. And question number one is about the book. Question number two is about the in-person event. And then my third question is how you perceive all those to happen. So how long did you work on the book? And if you're not watching this and you're listening, it's called Sponsor Magnet. And it came out when?

It came out on January 21. OK, very, very recently. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, and so I started writing out on February 1. I know this because it was a Herculean effort to-- this was February 1, 2024, for anyone listening in a future year. Yeah, I was just going to say that. Yeah. And it was a Herculean effort to change everything around in my life and business to make that happen. Because I had-- my business-- I'm so busy. I'm doing so many different things. And I was like, am I really going to carve out time in my life

to write this book because there's a lot of things I could have done and said, right? There's always this opportunity cost calculation you have to make as a business owner. And so for me, it was like, okay, I'm going to, I have to write two hours a day. I have to have a sacred block where I'm not doing anything for the next year, basically. Two hours a day. Oh my God. Two hours a day. So, so I blocked off from nine to 11 AM Pacific

every day for seven months. And I wrote the book. I wrote the book in that time. And it was sacred. I had this, I bought this two hour hourglass, Jenny. It was like huge. It was like this big. And I just literally DND'd everything, turned off everything and just like flipped this giant hourglass. And I couldn't get up until it was emptied. All the sand was, had poured out of it. And so it was crazy. It was crazy, but you know, I'm so glad I did it.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I, it is a Herculean effort. I would love to do it. I'm at the stage you were before February 1st, wondering how the heck that is even going to happen. But I mean, I guess you just have to make it a priority and make it happen. So, you know, you have to have. So here's the thing.

Not only do you have to have conviction about what you want to write about, like this thing needs to exist and feel so driven from an impact perspective. But I do also think that especially if you're someone listening who has a

is kind of owning a corner of the internet or owning the corner of your market with whatever you're talking about. That's very much how I felt. I was like, you know what? There's no one really talking about sponsorships the way that I am. And if I think about, because let's talk about first principles. Really what happened, Jenny, was I was thinking, okay, when I first got into this,

and I started teaching people, I started coaching and I had a course and all that. Um, I was like, I'm going to teach people over video because that's, that's how I learned. So I guess I'm going to do

I'm going to do some videos, right? And so what I quickly learned is people was like, oh, these are great, but I really wish I could read more about that framework that you talked about. And I was like, okay, well, let me turn my videos into blog posts. Okay. And then I had someone say, you know, I really, I would love to like listen to this stuff in the car on my commute because I can't pull up YouTube. I was like, okay, let me start a podcast. All right. So I started the podcast and then I was like, okay, what are all these other learning styles that people, you know, I said, okay, short form, right? I'm going to go on Instagram. I'm going to go to TikTok. Next one. What's another big way people learn? A book.

What's another big way a lot of people learn? Being in person and learning, having a real time experiential thing. And so a lot of it was like, okay, I'm just like slowly building out the creator wizard cinematic universe, I guess, you know, and trying to cater to people's different learning styles. Okay, so that answered my second question, which was like, why the in person event? But tell me, when is this happening?

So it's March 16th to the 19th, 2025 in San Antonio, Texas. It's called Sponsored Games. You're going to love this, okay? Because, you know, I've been going to in-person kind of creator-focused conferences for years, like a decade plus. And every time I would go to these events, there'd be like one or maybe two talks about partnerships.

And like my wife and I, this is like the number one way we were making money. And like the same with all our friends. And I was like, why is there not more talks about this? This is crazy. It's all about audience growth and engagement is great, but like, come on, can we talk about sponsorships here? And so for years I was like, man, I just wish there was an event focused on this thing. And finally I was just like, I guess, I guess it's me. I guess I have to be the one to do this. And so basically it's an, it's kind of an anti-conference. There's no keynotes, no workshops, no panels,

I'm turning my eight-step sponsorship wheel framework that I talk about in my book, Sponsor Magnet, into eight games that you're going to play to actually learn and master the concepts. And eight finalists from these games are going to advance to the sponsor tank where there's going to be a panel of real influencer marketing managers at brands. And you're going to do your pitches and one person is going to walk away with 5K in cash.

So I'm so excited. That is really, really cool. And you just dipped into a new learning style that people actually like, which is learning through games and educational piece like that as well. Right. That is so perfect. Okay. We're going to put that. I mean, this is going to come up before the in-person events. We'll make sure we put a link to it in the show notes so that you have that as well, which will be cool. I appreciate it. And by the way, if you use Jenny 400, you'll get $400 off your ticket.

Okay. That would be amazing. And if you use Jenny's promo code, she's going to get a 30% commission for your, for your registration. That would be fantastic. All right. So we're going to put that in the show notes. Absolutely. And use, use the code Jenny, J E N N I E 400. And there you go. You get a great ticket at a reduced price. You're very welcome. I didn't even know this was going to happen, but I just sprung that on you. I hope that's okay. It's all good. It's all good. Sounds perfect to me. Oh my gosh. Okay. Before,

Before we kind of wrap up, I have to ask this, and I'm sure you've been asked it a million, million times, but let's see if we can spin it into a fun and different thing. If a creator or an entrepreneur is looking to get into getting their first paid deal or figure out how they can get these sponsorships going, what is the first step they should take? What's your best piece of advice?

All right, let me tell you what not to do, which is what most people think the first step is, which is they sit alone in their room and they try to just imagine who are the brands that I should reach out to. And they think, okay, I use these five software programs, or I use this equipment, or I just, the five most obvious products or brands that I use personally, which is not a good criteria. Because if you reach out to them and you say, hey, I'm

I love your brand. I love your software. I love your service. I've been using it for three years. Would love to collaborate with you. I've got this large audience, whatever. The brand instantly deletes your email. Number one, they don't know who you are. Number two, there's lots of people with large followings on the internet. And that's what every person says to them that, oh, I love your brand. I've been using it all the time. I know this because I've been on the receiving end of hundreds and hundreds of pitches like this when I ran the agency. And so don't do that. That's the number one mistake. Don't do that.

A much better exercise is realizing that sponsorships are not about you. Actually, you liking it is table stakes.

What you need to understand and ascertain is what brands and products and services will serve your audience and help them improve their life and their business. And so basically the exercise that I encourage people to do is send out a survey to their audience, whether it's on their newsletter, a Google form, type form, whatever. Maybe it's on your Instagram stories with the little sticker questionnaire or whatever, YouTube community posts, whatever. And you say, hey,

I want to learn more about you. I'm planning out my content strategy for 2025. And yeah, I can see the demographics. I see that on the platforms. But I want to know more about you. What types of jobs do you have? Are you married? Do you have kids? What's keeping you up at night? What problems do you have? What brands and products and services are you using and loving right now? Are there any products that you wish that I offer that I don't? Is there anyone that you'd love to see me collaborate with in this industry and why?

There's so much that you can learn from asking just a simple six or seven question. And then, of course, you can add a question or two about something related to your industry or something. But there's so many interesting things that you can learn from this strategy. Let's say, for example, Jenny, you did this. You sent out this psychographic survey, which I'm sure you've done stuff like this before. But let's say you get responses back and you realize like, wow, I didn't realize 35% of my newsletter audience has a brick and mortar store.

Wow. Here I was thinking that everyone was like an online entrepreneur or course creator or list builder, membership owner or something, right? But wow, all these people are following me because they want to build their newsletter so that they can grow their foot traffic into their franchise locations, six franchise locations around Houston or something. And you ask them about the problems that they're experiencing and they say something like, I don't know, I'm having a hard time reconciling e-commerce inventory and in-store inventory.

i don't know um and you're like wow that's not something either i don't have a product to help you with that i don't have coaching or courses or whatever but

if it's you know semi-related to the types of business challenges that i serve my audience with maybe i should go out there and forge uh a partnership with like i don't know square or shopify who has like a point of sale solution for something like that um and wow that's so beautiful because now it's not just about me lighting my pockets as a creator it's about going out there and

serving my audience and helping them with an actual problem in their life and their business. And you know what the beautiful part about this, Jenny, is that that pitch is so much better now. When you reach out to Square, you're not like, oh, I love your tool. It's, hey, I've got 40% of my audience who's having an acute issue with this thing that your product solves. I would love to expose my full audience to your brand or your product. And so, wow, it's just a game changer.

I can imagine. I can imagine that pitch would be completely different and would get the attention because now you've, you've actually done that first step of work for the brand and

By telling them exactly also a little bit of the demographic, psychographic or whatever and saying, look, you know what? It's not Jenny-centric. It's not Justin-centric. It's people-centric about what it is that they're experiencing. I think that's fascinating. If I poll my audience and I find out 35% are brick and mortar, that would blow my mind. And now I have to do another survey.

Well, here's the, here's the other thing. Let's go even a bit deeper on this, which is so this, this philosophy about surveying your audience, I call it audience first offers, and I call it your PSA, your products, your sponsors, and your alliances. So I imagine a, probably quite a few people who listen and watch you are in that first bucket, right? They're selling things directly to their audience or their, you know, a customer. So their courses, coaching books, speaking, whatever.

And that seems very clear. Like I'm going to, I'm going to create something myself that I sell individually. And you know what? Probably a lot of people are like, I don't want to work with sponsors. Why would I talk about a sponsor in my podcast or my newsletter? I can just talk about my own product. I'm going to make a hundred percent of that money. Why would I want to point that attention to,

as elsewhere, right? But again, if you go back to this first principles thing where it's not about you, it's not about you making the most amount of money possible. It's about serving your audience. Now you realize, yeah, they're having issues. My audience is having issues that I'm never going to solve with the products that I sell. And so, yeah, I better go out there. It's my job to go out there and find sponsors that can fill this gap for them. Similarly, that last bucket of alliances terrifies a lot of people because they're like, well, if I, you know, I'm, you know, I realized my audience is having this issue.

I don't really do coaching for that. And there's not really a sponsor for that. Well, you know what? My friend over here does coaching for that. And my friend is, of course, I better get that person's dang offer in front of my audience. Because again, it's not about me. It's about solving my audience's problems. And so I think a lot of people don't do this because they have a scarcity mindset view. They say, okay, well, if that person buys that person's coaching package, they're not going to have enough money to buy my coaching package, which is 100% false. There's infinite amount of money in this universe. And when that person's

life and business is improved by working with your friend. They're now going to think more favorably upon Jenny and you because, wow, she, she really, and now I feel like I'm finally ready for Jenny's coaching package because my business is better. And so the, the, the secret to all this is that you'll actually make more money in the end.

I completely agree. I completely agree. And also there's the caveat of, you know what, if my friend is better helping them, then they probably weren't the right customer for me at the time. Right. And so you, you can't be all things to all people. I, that's why I think niching in is hyper important. Like right down to just the, like almost the hyperbole of just being like super, super tight with your niche. And because, you know, everybody talks about like blue ocean, red ocean, but,

Nobody does it exactly like you do. Like you said, nobody does sponsors, you know, talks about sponsorships the way that you do, even though there's other people in the field, but nobody talks about the exact same way as you or as you and your wife or whatever or not. And so that's the important part. That's the part that I love because the message is unique.

Which is fantastic. Oh my gosh. Okay. Yes. Too much fun here. Um, we're going to get this wrapped up simply because I could probably chat with you for a long time about this, but what I do want to say is, and I'm going to spring this on you cause you sprang it on me is, um, once your live event is over, I do want to re interview you. I want to talk to you about the event afterwards, but I want to talk about metrics. I want to talk about how it went and like break into the minutia of your actual in-person event. Would you do that? Yeah.

I would be more than happy to, I'll just be totally honest. Like I'm petrified of this whole thing, to be honest, because, uh, number one, it's the most amount of money I've ever personally like committed, like put down on the line, you know, I'm spending North of 50 K putting this event on. And, um, but I have so much conviction that this is like the, uh, a direction that, that not only that this event needs to exist and that there's a huge hunger and appetite for, for this type of knowledge. Um, but I just feel like, um,

I don't know, the people that I've admired the most throughout my life have basically decided like this thing needs to exist. Even if I'm going to lose a bit of money, which I hope I don't, but you know, even if I do, it's still worth it to me. And I feel like anyone listening to this, if there's something like that in your life or your business where it's like,

this big audacious project that you want to launch, but you just feel like, I just, I don't know. It feels like a stretch or a risk. My friend Jay Klaus said this to me one time when I told him that I was like fearful about all this. And he was just like,

you know, one of the reasons why there's certain people that have really big outcomes in their life and business is because they're willing to take big swings like this, because most people are not, most people are not willing to do this. And so I think a lot of people just will respect that about just trying to bring things into the universe and hopefully get behind the message.

Yeah, absolutely. Fully believe that. I plan in-person events for some of my clients and it takes, it is a big, hairy, audacious goal for a lot of them and they

But you get a lot out of it. And some of it's not necessarily tangible, like right in the bank account. Some of it is partnerships or some of it's, you know, being able to then get other speaking gigs or whatever it is. And but it grows like it creates its own opportunities. And the second time and the third time, it just keeps on growing. And so I wish you all the luck.

I'm sure you'll be absolutely fine and it'll be perfect and great. And even if, even the things that aren't perfect and great will still be awesome. You know what I mean? Like there'll still be that learning opportunity as long as the rigging doesn't fall, knock on wood, right? Everything's good. I appreciate that. And the caterer doesn't forget to feature people. That's, these are the big things. The little stuff is the little stuff. A hundred percent. Absolutely. Awesome. How can people find you, get in touch with you and learn more about what it is that you do?

Yeah. Well, first of all, thanks again, Jenny. This was such a great conversation and a bit different than I've actually done over the last several months. So I appreciate that very much. Sponsormagnet.com is the best place. I've got the book there. It was just like scratching the surface, this conversation, the things that I talk about in the book. And especially, again, if you are someone who you listen all the way through this and you're still on the fence, you're like, I don't know. I don't know if I want to actually do sponsorships.

I really still would encourage you to pick up the book for honestly a relatively modest investment. Like it will provide you an alternative perspective of realizing like maybe this could be something for you. And that's, I think probably the thing I'm most excited about, about having the book in the universe now. Yeah. Sponsor magnet.com.

Absolutely. We'll make sure that's in the show notes. And that's also, will that also be the link to the in-person or is that a different? So the in-person event is sponsor games.com, but we're going to, we're going to put the link special link for you in the, in the, in the info box with the promo code. Yay. Perfect. Awesome. Thank you so much, Justin. This has been a super fun. It absolutely was not the conversation I wasn't even anticipating, which actually makes it more fun because all the questions that I had kind of prepared went out.

Out the window. And those are the best conversations. So I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thanks again. Absolutely. And if you've listened this far, yay, congrats. You made it to the end. And if you're not already following the Aquire podcast, why not? I have got some great episodes with amazing guests just like Justin coming up soon. And also my little solo episodes, which have lately been quite pithy.

and fun for me hopefully you're enjoying them so go ahead and follow the podcast wherever it is that you're listening and feel free to drop me a comment or a review I would love to hear more about what it is that I'm doing to support you because as Justin said it's all about you not me so thank you so much for listening we'll talk to y'all soon