An Evening with Adam Buxton and Caitlin Moran (Part One)
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Hello and welcome to Intelligence Squared, where great minds meet. I'm Head of Programming, Conor Boyle. Today's episode is part one of our recent live event with comedian, writer and podcaster Adam Buxton.

In conversation with columnist Catlin Moran, Buxton reflected on the stories behind his new memoir, I Love You Bye, his early days in DIY TV and personal tales of family, fame and fatherhood. Recorded live at Union Chapel in May 2025, this is part one of the event and for full access you can head to intelligencesquare.com slash membership. Now, let's join Adam Buxton and Catlin Moran with more.

At the start of the episode, you may notice that Adam makes reference to a costume that he's wearing. It's difficult to do the costume justice in words, so we've added a link to a photo of Adam wearing it in the podcast description.

Hello, good evening. Oh, it's nice to be here, isn't it? We're in church, a church of warmth and friendship and fun. So a classic two-minute introduction to the start of a live event like this usually consists of, and I throw no shade here because I've done it myself, someone basically rehashing the relevant Wikipedia entry.

and then really selling you a load of facts and dates and figures in your best circus ringmaster voice. You then do the evening admin, which I will do here, which is to remind you that we're here to celebrate the release of I Love You By, Adam's second book, the follow-up to the best-selling Ramble book,

in which he talks about the death of his mother, parenthood, marriage, fame, music, and various accumulated wisdoms. And then it'll be followed by questions from you, the audience, after an hour. You've got half an hour to ask your questions. Think about them now. Try and remember that a question is something with a question mark at the end and not a rambling statement. You will rile people in the audience if you start telling a very long story that has no point. And then afterwards, there'll be a signing where you get to meet and possibly touch the great man himself. LAUGHTER

But as I age, I increasingly think that the best way to start an event like this is to actually get a little bit high. Obviously not on drugs, although alcohol is a drug, and I see that many of you here tonight have been doing alcohol, even though it's only Monday, well done. But I want us to get high, and let me be very un-English here, love. Or if that's too strong a word, strong affection, fondness, familiarity.

Let us all take a moment to enjoy, one minute before Adam comes to the stage, a surge of dopamine, oxytocin and serotonin. Those are the love drugs. As we think about the man we are about to spend the next 90 minutes with. I'm presuming you're all roughly the same age as me. Fifty.

And so you will have spent much of your adult life having your, at the very least, leisure time, and at the most extreme end, your entire life immeasurably improved by Adam Buckles Buxton. I was 20 when the Adam and Jo show started on Channel 4, and I suspect, like many here, I watched it very stoned, explaining, but this is like a show made by a very dear friend I haven't yet met. Or, more self-centeredly, the show I would have made if I were not currently so lazy and stoned.

He's doing Blind Date with Star Wars figurines and singing along to Pinky and Perky with Keris Matthews from Catatonia and wearing a t-shirt with his name on it, Adam, so that I know which one is Adam and which one is Joe. Something which Ant and Dex still selfishly refuse to do.

Or perhaps it was bug that you started with, exclaiming again, he is the first person to realize there is a below-the-line comment culture in which dementedly confident people get into arguments with each other whilst misspelling many key words. And he's reading them out in a silly voice. And I've suddenly realized that this is an oddly comforting and profound thing to do.

Or maybe it's his podcast, now a 241-episode treasure trove in the podcast bin, which contains ramble chats with Michael Palin, Brian Eno, Kathy Burke, Greta Gerwig, David Starris, Paul McCartney, Tom Hanks, and Torvaldine. And me, twice, both events of which I have to say were genuinely amongst the happiest of my professional career.

For 30 years, we have had the very great pleasure of being young and silly, and now increasingly old and silly, with a man who is clearly a national treasure, if you are allowed to be a national treasure before you're 60. Please allow all your glands to secrete all the love drugs into your body as you whoop and holler for our king, Adam Buxton.

Oh, Lara, Lara, intelligent square life talking is nice. Gonna have a lot of intelligent square conversations, innit? Lara. I mean, the thing is that I was expecting to have a screen. Up until the very last moment, I thought there would be a video screen. So I prepared some clips. I talked about it on the podcast. That's the only reason you're here, isn't it? No screen.

It was a miscommunication. My fault. So, uh, I thought this would make up for it. I've had it for a while. Since before she died. I don't know if they still make them. It would be disrespectful if they did, I think. I hope they don't make them still. But I'm glad to be able to use it today. At this Intelligence Squared event,

And I'm very, very happy to see you and I'm happy to be here. And it's so nice to have Catelyn here, a friendly face, one of the nicest people I know, a wonderful writer, a brainiac.

a national treasure in her own right. I heard that phrase from The Wings. I didn't hear the rest of the intro really, but it sounded nice. - It was very positive, generally. - Was it? - Yeah, generally positive. - I was hearing sort of, "He's a national treasure, he's overrated and oversharing." And Tom Hanks you mentioned as well. - Yeah, no, sorry. - Don't mention Tom Hanks.

It's still a big get. It still counts. Now the question is, do I keep this on? I mean, things are going to get real tonight. Oh yeah. We know they are. There's going to be oversharing. There might be tears. I get emotional. I feel rattled sometimes. I'm human. So should I be human with this or should I take it off? She says, keep it on. Let's see how it looks when you sit down. Who said take it off?

Yeah, not so brave now, are you? How does it look when you sit, Let's Have a Lot? How does Her Majesty look when you're sitting? That's... Better. I mean, astonishingly, it seems even less respectful than it did... I don't think Her Majesty would sit like that. I think it's knees together and ankles at an angle. Okay. I mean, she's dead. She can't complain. It's fine. She sees all.

So last time we did something together, we did an event in Norwich together and you turned up on your bicycle. Yes. Which I just think is so wholesome and so very you. You've cycled here today. Did you cycle here in that? No. No, this is not ideal for cycling. I did cycle. I had some nice concerned messages from people because I spoke on my podcast yesterday.

a couple of weeks ago about the fact that I was knocked off my bike in Norwich on a dangerous roundabout. And I had a flash of thinking, this is it. Not death necessarily, but certainly injury and Brompton denting. - And were you thinking that would be good for promo? - Yes. - Yes. - I was thinking, I think I could get one of the electric P-line bikes out of this.

It's a ripple of appreciation from the Brompton Massive out there for what that implies. I think also, I was referring to the fact that if you're not already a national treasure, it's in the post. And I think sometimes that some tragedy needs to befall a beloved character before you officially get promoted as a national treasure. So like some kind of bicycle-based injury would have made people suddenly... People start looking to the obituaries and being like, yeah, we need to tell him now he's a national treasure. That's the dream. I mean, the thing is...

Once you become a national treasure, especially if you're a man of a certain age, the thing, the extra bonus is the GB News show that comes along with it. Yes. Sweet. You make that transition into the world of far-right talk show fun. That's the next chapter of my career. That's what the next book's going to be about. Yes.

All my strong opinions. National Treasure-wise, is there a part of you that's thinking, I'm kind of due a CBE or an OBE or an MBE now? Do you feel like you're on the track to kind of lording, sering? Does that come into the mind at any point? Are you kind of like... This is sounding very sarcastic. No, no, no, it's honestly... I mean, it should be, though, shouldn't it? Right. Because, look...

I mean, it should be sarcastic is what I mean. No, no, no. No, no, I mean it in all honesty because... Come on, get a grip. Have you read this book? Let's do... This is not the book. If you're going to be a national treasure, there has to be a bit of substance somewhere. You have to have actually done something. The big story in here is that I scratched Tom York's nose and he didn't like it.

That's it. That's my big story. No, no, no. You also have a whitey on Sean Lock. Yes. Yeah, that's... You've got... That's the other big story. But it's not like I cured a disease. No.

Or, you know, I saved someone from death or I ran a marathon to raise money for a worthy cause. I've never done any of those things. Let's do a slightly biased vote in the room. Who thinks, A, that Adam is either on the fast track to already a national treasure? I mean, they have paid upwards of £35 for a ticket. So if they don't think that, then there's something wrong with them.

So, it's publication week. Yes. How do you feel on publication week? Great. Yes. Do you feel slightly insecure as well, as if you might need to come on wearing the Queen's body as... in order to make people feel that you're enough and that, as a desperate people pleaser, is this... People pleaser? I think you're a people pleaser. That is a low blow. Are you a people pleaser? Oh, 100%. Well, there you go. Yes, of course I am. Yes, thank you.

I mean, yeah, it is weird having the thing out in the world, but I'm hoping that it just sort of slips under the radar of everyone except the podcats and people here and, you know, just is ignored by everyone else. That's the dream. Really? Yeah, I don't want things to cross over into the wider world. Fuck the wider world. Have you seen the wider world? It's a nightmare. Yeah.

I've worked very hard to isolate myself from the wider world. You don't go on social media. No. No, never. Some of you have been there. Don't go there again. Don't do that again. Stay in your field, in your podcast field with your dog friend. And, you know, I'm always complaining about the internet and how terrible and shit it is. Obviously, I owe my entire livelihood to the internet. LAUGHTER

I am aware of that. But I do think that one of the nice things about the internet is that you can carve out a separate space and more or less live there fairly happily, you know. The occasional bit of criticism does get through the castle walls. It is possible to get in touch with me and I am aware sometimes of people being angry, upset, let down, etc.

But on the whole, people are very supportive and they, you know, the nice thing about a podcast is that people come to you, people come to you. They've come to you. It's like you haven't invaded their space. And that's the big thing. That's the thing that always made me feel uncomfortable on live radio, for example. It's quite rude, isn't it? Because you're suddenly in someone's house uninvited. I feel like you should be like a vampire. You must be invited across the threshold. Exactly. And then you can start sucking. Yes, exactly.

on every level. It's their fault. I'm going to suck now. But that's the reason, though, that I was never great on panel shows and that the only panel show I've ever been invited back on is 8 Out of 10 Cats Does Countdown in Dictionary Corner because it's understood that no interaction or bants is required.

I can't do it. I can't do the gladiatorial thing. I can't chip in. I can't go, I've got a funny thing to say and everyone's going to listen to it now. Here we go. Here's the funny thing. No, I can't do it. I'd much rather sit there and read off my laptop and chat with Susie Dent about obscure words. That's much nicer.

I was going to talk to you about this later, but on panel shows, there's a bit in your first book where you really proudly explain to your father that you've been invited on Have I Got News For You. Oh, yeah. And he's quite crushing. He goes, I would have thought Have I Got News For You is exactly the kind of program on which you are thoroughly ill-suited to appear. It's full of people being witty and telling jokes, and that is not what you were good at.

And then you're very peevish with him, and then you admit that he was right. It was a slow car crash and I wasn't invited back. No. I think they burned the episode.

I've never ever seen it repeated. You know, every now and again I'll be flicking around and one of my 8 Out of 10 Cats Does Countdown shows will pop back up. Oh, there I am. But no, I've never ever seen or heard referred to the episode that I was on. And it was a shame because I was on with amazing people. Amanda Iannucci, Bill Bailey was hosting, and that was it, just those two. And then the other grumpy fuckers on there. Um...

Who were very nice, it should be said. They were as nice as they possibly could be. But... That sounded sarcastic. No, they were nice. But Ian Hislop, his one bit of advice was, whatever you do, get in there early. I've seen some people come on the show and they don't say anything for the first half an hour because they're just a bit overwhelmed. And that's it. They're doomed for the rest of the show. So that's what I did. I just stared at everyone and...

"Oh, it's Paul Merton!" I was laughing at Paul Merton and then I, I got my grin on. And then it was like, "Oh fuck, half an hour's gone by, "I haven't said anything." So I did a joke about Gordon Brown doing a blowjob face. When he does, oh, when he does that face. No one liked that joke. And they kept it in because they had to. It was one of the only five things that I said. I said five things.

To review you to your face for a minute, I think the thing that you do is you make a space and you set a tone. You're not good in other people's territory. That's not what your thing is. You make a space and you set a tone. That's what you did in all your early TV shows. And that's definitely what the podcast is. It's like we come into your kingdom. That's the thing that you do the best. And that's what I think all my favorite people do. You enter their world.

So with the book, is that an extension of that? Is this your world? Is it an extension of the idea that this is my space, I set the tone here, this is what I want to talk about? Oh yeah, definitely. Why did you write the book is what I'm basically saying. Well, it's... It's a big question, but it's the most key one. I guess the obvious answer is that my mum very obligingly died in 2020, sensing that I needed a...

a bit of substance for the follow-up. Yeah, an emotional core. Exactly. Yes. Otherwise, it's just scratching Tom York's nose and getting passive-aggressive with Joe Cornish. Yes. Which is great, and there is some substance within that as well. But, no, the sadness of having mum die in the lockdown. She didn't even get to read the first book.

It was, it came out just before she died and she wasn't an audiobook person and the physical thing didn't come out until later that year. So she thought, oh, I'll die before the actual book comes out. He knows that I don't like audiobooks, so I've got that excuse. But better go before September.

Just to explain to people, because I can feel some people are a bit uncomfortable in a kind of, where are we going emotionally with this? Adam's being funny about the death of his mother. Like, I'm not quite sure whether I should be laughing along or kind of encouraging him to be emotional. No, you can. I mean, that's the tone of the book. Yes, the thing that you do in the book, you're very honest about how you feel about it. Like, I think most people would be, okay, I need to be performatively sad now. I need to go on a journey. You've been really honest about what it was actually like and your relationship with her.

Let's start with, first of all, let's talk a bit about it. Let's describe it to everybody so they understand. So she was born in Chile and she was very glamorous. She was the fun parent compared to your father. She was 15 years younger than my dad. Yes. It's disgusting. But in those days, people just did whatever the hell they wanted. They got married in the early 60s and they met on an aeroplane. My mum was a...

a flight attendant. Problematic. Yeah. And I think she used to boast in drunken moments that her first words to my dad were, coffee, tea, or me? Saucy. She thought that was a good line. And my dad was a travel writer, and so he was there writing about the inaugural flight

of a new route that had opened up between, I think London and Japan, Tokyo maybe, and mum was a BOAC flight attendant. And in those days, that was the most glamorous job you could have as a young woman. - Oh yeah.

and you had to look great and it was a very select club and everyone flying, whether they were in standard class or first class, that was a big deal. Like standard class then, lots of room and you dressed up

And it was like going on the Orient Express or something. You described her as being very glamorous. The jazzy handbags, the flowery flip-flops, the gaudy bangles. And then when the moonwalk happened, when Neil Armstrong went onto the moon, you as a six-month-old child, she stayed up all night with you on her lap to watch it on the TV. And then your dad came in the room while she was doing it and went, what on earth are you doing? And your mum went, look, they're on the moon. And your dad went, why were you doing that?

why would you want to watch that in the middle of the night? You must be Dottie and went back to bed. So I think we see the dynamic between your father and your mother there. Yes. He didn't get it. He didn't get the modern world. He thought it was mainly terrible. And he thought most pop culture was absolutely useless. But my mum was the counterpoint to that. She liked most of it. I don't know. I mean, she was conservative in her own way, in every conceivable sense.

But she did appreciate... Well, the frustrating thing from my point of view was that she did appreciate this kind of stuff. And she wasn't prejudiced when it came to entertainers and however they looked and however they identified. If they were good, she was up for it. But then in the abstract, she would get very conservative. And it used to frustrate me. I'd be like, you know, you wouldn't be...

You know, ranting about these people if they were on TV and you liked what they were doing. Anyway. But she was into all that stuff, and so she was my ally when it came to David Bowie. She was interested in all that. We used to listen to the Top 40 in the car quite a lot, something that my dad would never do. Well, he didn't even like the moon. I mean, he was very... I mean, that's...

Like, that's a whole fucking planet. Like, kind of like... Yeah, he couldn't be bothered with the moon. Yeah.

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So there's a bit, so you were sent away to boarding school when you were nine. And there's a bit in the book where you're describing, you would do reverse charge calls to the home to talk to your parents. And so your mum would answer, your mother would answer the phone. When I heard mum's lovely voice say, hello, Adam, I crouched beneath the glass panels in the door so no one in the queue could see me sobbing my nine-year-old tits off. I asked my mum about these tearful...

Don't forget, this is who I am now. This guy. I asked my mum about those tearful phone calls recently and she said, yes, it was the most awful feeling. And then you asked, so why send me away? She paused for a little while and then said, do you know, I've never really thought about it. It's a very complex relationship. So tell us, so your mother got ill? Yes, she got ill recently.

I think it was a whole bunch of things happened at the set. I mean, she got breast cancer, but she battled through that and went into remission. She was treated for it. That was about 10 years before she died. And she never made a big deal out of anything. So, you know, we found out very late on, it would be like, oh, I had some breast cancer. It's fine. It's been dealt with. And then...

We got the call about, I've got a tumor on the skull. It's a small one. You don't need to worry about it. It's fine. I'm getting treated by the NHS. Very nice nurses at the NHS and it's all fine. And I'd be like, are you scared though? Are you worried? What's the prognosis? And is it going to affect, what's it going to affect? Is it going to affect your memory and your powers of cognition? Oh no, it's all fine. So that was her style was very much, let's not worry.

talk about this stuff too much let's bury it as deep as possible and soldier on you know which I that's that's a strategy right yeah but how did that make you feel because when you because you haven't done the usual thing when someone is talking about the death of a parent you know people are really aware that you you know you have to go into how it affected you a journey you might have gone on the regrets that you've got and when you write about her death it's so sudden

Like we're expecting, like you know, this is a book about your mother dying, we're expecting this to be this huge thing and it just happens so suddenly and so unexpectedly. Yeah. She's having problems breathing, they come round in an ambulance, they say if we move her out of the house she may die. You go, well she's got to go to hospital. And then I'm expecting there to be pages and pages of stuff and then she just dies. She dies and I felt terrible about it because I didn't expect it and I felt like I'm going to get emotional wearing a queen costume.

I felt like quite a useless baby man. You know what I mean? Like, I am this guy. Yeah. That's who I am. Yeah. But I very often wish that I was a man-man. More of a cliche of a... More like my dad, I suppose. But a bit more together and a bit more across things other than indie music. Yeah. I know a lot about that.

fuck of a lot about David Bowie and also jingle making yes but outside those areas of expertise I've got nothing I've got nothing I have to google everything if I want to find out actual facts about what's going on in the world and so when there was a real emergency that I was presented with which was mum obviously not doing well during the lockdown out in Sonning upon Thames and

And I'm thinking, she doesn't sound good. And I knew that her memory had been going for a few years since she'd had this cancer on the skull. And I didn't know if it was dementia or the skull cancer or I don't know what, but certainly she was getting into loops and the memory was getting worse and worse. And I was thinking, okay, it's time for her, I think, to move in with us. And she was resistant to that idea because she didn't want to be a burden. Yeah.

I felt like it's going to happen and she won't want to be taken into care, I don't think. So better that she comes to live with us. But then the lockdown happens. And then every time I call her, she's saying, I'm fine, I'm fine. You worry too much. And then she would get chippy as well. You know, it would cross over into, you're ruining my night. Can we not have this call? I want to enjoy my night and I want to have my glass of wine.

So either talk about something else or I'm going to hang up. It was like that, you know. So I didn't really know what to do. And meanwhile, the Dominic Cummings thing was happening. So there was very much a feeling of stick to the rules unless it's an emergency. And I've got my mum saying, this is not an emergency. But it was. And by the time someone phoned me up saying I'm in Waitrose...

I think you're, I'm with your mum and I've got her phone and you're the top number and she's not doing well and I think you need to come and get her. It's like, ah, fuck. Why didn't I go before? Why do I care about Dominic Cummings? Why do I care about what everyone thinks about Dominic Cummings? Why am I not there immediately and going, well, this is an emergency? So I felt bad and then when I got her,

And she wasn't doing well at all. She was in a bad way and I went straight to Norwich Hospital with her and they admitted her immediately and she was there for a week or so. She had a raft of issues. But when they discharged her, she was not doing well either. But I just kind of trusted again. I was like, well, they wouldn't discharge her if she's not doing well, right?

But at home she was bad. And then it was like calling GPs, but lockdown GP calling, no one's returning your calls, still thinking, is this a proper emergency? They wouldn't have discharged her if she wasn't doing well. Anyway, so that night she died, first night back in the middle of the night.

You know, doing really badly, suffering, not breathing properly. Sorry to go on about this at length. I don't go on about it at this length in the book. It's much more concise. But yeah, it was suddenly, it was like, fuck, call the ambulance. And then they said the thing about just, you know, we have to say that if we move her, there's a chance she will die. And I was like, okay, fine.

But I mean, what's the choice? Like she needs to go to hospital anyway. So yeah, so I did, I just felt so Frank Spencer-ish, which is what I write about in the book. Just such a fucking pathetic man.

You know what I mean? But not to get too deep, but having read your first book, which is about when your father gets and then comes and lives with you. And you're, again, you're kind of thinking, okay, I know how this works. We've had a difficult relationship, but he is now ill. He is dying. He'll come to my house. It'll be like in the movies. We'll suddenly have these big, deep conversations we've never had. We'll go on a journey together. We'll be united before we die. And that doesn't happen.

like kind of like you continue to not get on with each other. You continue to be irritable with each other. You're brutally honest in a way I never would be about how short-tempered you are with him. You don't soft-soap it at all. And taken in conjunction with this book where you're talking about the death of your mother, it's such a study in

in dysfunction in families, like that no one could talk about their emotions at all. And part of the reason why you don't know how to deal with it is you've not been raised to deal with that. It's been seen as distasteful to talk about your emotions. And there's a bit at the end where Adam writes a letter to his mother at the end of describing her dying. A letter sort of, it's going, look, I'm writing about you in this book. Like, I'm really sorry. I feel really guilty. People keep telling me there wasn't anything more I could do, but I don't know. Anyway, I'm really so sorry.

can I send you something by way of apology, a nice bottle of wine or a Fortnum's hamper? And it's the most middle class. Like those are the tools that you were given to deal with emotional problems if you're brought up in that milieu. It's kind of like, well, however awful a thing is, if I send a hamper, that will make up for it. I mean, that's nice though, a nice Fortnum's hamper. And the baskets are so useful afterwards. Who would object to that?

You'd have to be a maniac. Even if you love talking about your feelings, you're not going to send back a Fortnum's hamper. Thanks for listening to Intelligence Squared. This episode was produced by Leila Ismail and edited by Mark Roberts. Visit intelligencesquared.com slash attend to find out about everything we've got coming up.