Trump, Zelenskiy Meeting Turns Into Argument; Mineral Deal Falls Through
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Bloomberg Audio Studios. Podcasts, radio, news. I'm not aligned with Putin. I'm not aligned with anybody. I'm aligned with the United States of America and for the good of the world. I'm aligned with the world. You want me to be tough? I could be tougher than any human being you've ever seen. I'd be so tough.

But you're never going to get a deal that way. You have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future. God bless. You don't know that. God bless. God bless. You will not have the war. Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going to feel. I'm not telling you. Because you're in no position to dictate that. Remember that. You're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel. You're not in a good position. You don't have the cards right now.

With us you start having cards. I'm not playing cards. Right now you're playing cards. I'm very serious, Mr. President. You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War III. Your country is in big trouble. I know. You're not winning. You're not winning this. You have a damn good chance of coming out okay because of us. All right, there you have President Trump, President Zelensky, Vice President J.D. Vance and others in a very crowded Oval Office.

in what was a bilateral meeting that turned into an argument. Just bringing that to you as it's coming into our newsroom right now, they jumped in about halfway through the meeting. So we might be able to get you some other comments from the beginning of that conversation as reporters are escorted outside of the Oval Office. Donald Trump to Vladimir Zelensky, you either make a deal or we are out, he said, telling Zelensky he has to be thankful. And he said, it's going to be very hard to do business like this.

As President Zelensky tried to make his case to J.D. Vance, Donald Trump and others, things got very chippy.

in the middle of that meeting. And we want to assemble our political panel. They were listening along with us here. Our signature panel together, Rick Davis, Republican strategist, partner at Stonecourt Capital, and Jeannie Shanzano, of course, our democratic analyst and political science professor at Iona University. Rick, I'm not sure I've ever heard anything like that come out of a meeting of world leaders in the Oval Office. Typically, an argument like that would be behind closed doors. It just played out for everyone to see. Is this relationship broken? Where do we go from here?

Yeah, Joe, I'm not sure you would even say that this kind of argument ever happens behind closed doors. I mean, these kinds of state-to-state discussions are usually finely tuned. They're prepped. They have lots of staff involved making sure that the time that the two principals spend together is well orchestrated and that the outcome is totally predetermined. The idea that you would put these two folks in the Oval Office with a bunch of reporters to hash it out

is something I don't think I've ever seen in five decades of Washington statecraft. So I think what we just witnessed was something that, you know, look, I mean, everybody knew Donald Trump kind of, you know, goes his own way. But

the idea that this is either good for America, good for Ukraine or good for the world is nuts. This was an incredible failure of diplomacy. And regardless of what happens today, maybe they get a deal and they sign it. You know, showing this makes both countries look weak. Wow. Jeannie, give me your take on this. Was it a conversation? A lot of people stressed out, went off the rails when they heard the wrong thing.

Words from Vladimir Zelensky. He wasn't thankful enough. Or was this a setup? Did Donald Trump and J.D. Vance plan to do this with the cameras in the room?

Yeah, I mean, you know, one of the big questions hanging over this meeting, in addition to security guarantees, which we can probably forget that question for right now, was can we work together? You know, Vladimir Zelensky trying to test out, does Donald Trump, you know, like me enough that we can make this happen? And that kind of exchange is just a reminder that.

And interpersonal relationships matter an awful lot in these things. So that seems to be very clear. There is not a lot of love lost there. And of course, this is quite embarrassing from the perspective of the United States. He is talking to our ally in this war. He is talking to a country invaded by terrorists.

Putin in 2014. Seven million Ukrainians have fled their homeland. We are talking of hundreds of thousands of innocent people now dead, four million still displaced. And he is being told from the vice president and the president of the United States heretofore their allies that you are not being thankful

enough to us as you sit here. And so it is quite an embarrassing spectacle. It does look made for TV from my perspective. You wouldn't believe it unless you saw it firsthand that this was the conversation that they're having. And I can't imagine what it looks like behind the scenes. This is what they're displaying. Oh, my God. Yeah. Well, what do you think, Rick? Did this feel spontaneous? And does this does this

the bilateral news conference they had planned for 10 minutes from now? You know, it's hard to tell what they're going to do to put this back together, you know, behind closed doors now. It's going to have to take a lot of work because I think both principals are, you know, going back to their neutral corners, ready to come out throwing punches again. Look, I mean, Donald Trump, I think, started out this campaign

session pretty constructively. And I must admit, I mean, the interjections by Vice President Vance really stoked a lot of anger in the room and was really counterproductive, I thought. And even Donald Trump at the end tried to bring it back and say, look, we just want to stop the killing and get a deal.

And the elements of a deal are there, right? I mean, he's had great meetings this week with, you know, leaders of Europe and France and Great Britain, all of whom have guaranteed certain security measures that they would do in case of a ceasefire or a end of the war. And I mean, like he was walking in the president of the United States into kind of a very positive environment where he could, you know,

didn't have to commit to putting troops on the ground, but could obviously continue to say, we're going to supply you with materials and weapons because you're going to pay for them. And that kind of relationship is traditional for us. I mean, and it's sustainable over time. It's a real mature relationship between US and one of its allies and supporters, Ukraine. So everyone thought this was going to be sort of the beginning of a real mature relationship, one that's post

uh, combat, uh, conflict. And, and, and I, I, my impression was that's not something JD Vance wanted to see happen today and, and set out to try and derail it right there in front of the American public. Just about a minute or two. He left here. Jeannie Donald Trump invoked Vladimir Putin's talked about what they had gone through, how much they went through together during the Russia investigation. He started doing the Russia, Russia, Russia thing. He got very angry looking as he was, uh, referring to this, uh,

He also revealed that he just met again recently with Vladimir Putin. Do you think the Russian president had a sense of what this meeting was going to be like? You know, it's hard to know. We thought this was a win for Vladimir Zelenskyy, that he got to Donald Trump personally face to face first.

And, you know, I think there is going to be some criticism all around, obviously, starting with J.D. Vance, but including Vladimir Zelensky. The reality is Ukraine, unfortunately, does not have a lot of cards to play. And those were the exact words that Donald Trump used. I'm not sure he needed to say it that viscerally, but that's what he said. And he's right. That's why Zelensky's task today was to do what they told Queen Victoria. Close your eyes and think of England.

Close your eyes and think of Ukraine. And the reality is he couldn't get there in the face of J.D. Vance's taunting. And so I think he's going to bear some criticism on this as well, because the reality is Ukraine needs the support of the United States if they are going to sustain him. Well, our panel is going to stay with us. G.D. Shanzano and Rick Davis. We're going to try to unpack what the heck just happened in the Oval Office. So stay with us right here on Bloomberg.

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We're going to have a conversation ahead with former Ambassador Daniel Freed. First, we want to talk with Nick Wadhams, who leads our national security coverage here in Washington, D.C. Nick, have you ever seen anything like this before? No.

No, I have not. That was one of the most extraordinary bits of television I've ever seen. Obviously, the president there getting extremely angry and then Vice President J.D. Vance essentially asking Zelensky to grovel and to express thanks to the U.S., which, of course, he has done many times before for the weaponry and the aid that the U.S. has provided. So an extraordinary moment. Thank you for your question.

Well, certainly so. And I guess the question, Nick, is now what moments come after this? Things have moved behind closed doors. But initially there was supposed to be an agreement signed in front of the press in the East Room of the White House that was supposed to be scheduled to happen at this hour. Is there any indication of whether that will still happen? Well, we are trying to figure that out. I mean, the big question here is, does that go ahead or are we at an impasse now?

where essentially the relationship is totally broken. I mean, it had been clear for some time that President Trump was not excited about Volodymyr Zelensky. He did at one point call him a dictator, though then in the last day or two we'd had a turn where it felt like

The situation was warming up a little bit. Things were getting better. They thought they had a deal that served Ukraine's interests, essentially punted a lot of questions until later, but gave President Trump a document to show his supporters to say, look, we are going to get something out of this. Now seems very unlikely to me that the two sides, without some further intervention, would be willing to sit down and actually put pen to paper, put their signatures on that document.

And then the whole thing may end up in total collapse. But we'll just have to see in the next hour or so. They're also supposed to have a press conference. And, of course, is that going to happen? So great question. We will bring it to our viewers and listeners if it does. Nick, that was scheduled to begin seven minutes ago. But obviously things were running late before things started getting angry. Donald Trump said to Vladimir Zelensky, you either make a deal or we are out. You take him at his word. Yeah.

Yes, I would take him at his word on that. I mean, you know, the thing that's so interesting is this critical minerals deal, when you get down to it, was essentially an agreement to have talks about talks at a later time. So there wasn't really anything in it that actually committed either side to much of anything. And indeed, there was some speculation that this was basically something

that Ukraine and some pro-Ukraine lawmakers and others in the United States could put in front of President Trump and say, listen, we got this from them. Now we can get down to the real business of actually having real negotiations, both over this deal but over a peace agreement later on. So if President Trump essentially backs out and throws himself in with the Russian side or abandons Ukraine and lets Russia run roughshod over Ukrainian territory, I mean, this is a critical moment.

This is just completely unprecedented. So, again, we should have more clarity in the next couple of hours and also in the coming days. But what you really saw here was just the eruption of the hostility. We had known that President Trump felt about Ukraine from some time, but had been restrained from exhibiting. Now it feels like those shackles are basically off.

All right, Bloomberg's Nick Wadhams, thank you so much with reaction to the footage we've all just seen and watching it alongside us now here in our Washington, D.C. studio is Ambassador Daniel Freed, Distinguished Fellow at the Atlantic Council, also former U.S. Ambassador to Poland and former Assistant Secretary of State for Europe here with us on Bloomberg TV and radio. So obviously we all saw, we all heard the exchange that happened between these three. Ambassador, what do you make of it? Take a step back.

The U.S. has an interest in Ukraine succeeding. Our problems in the world get better if Ukraine survives and prospers. And if Russia wins, our problems get worse. It's been quite a week. The Trump plan for Ukraine, as we understand it, could work and was getting some traction. Ceasefire in place. British and French-led force in Ukraine, maybe with American backup. A minerals deal with Ukraine.

Ukraine that gives President Trump the ability to say, yeah, I've got a stake in this. That could come together. And now this, now this blow up. Let's hope, best case, that they pull it together. You know, President Trump loves drama for TV. Let's hope that they can pull it together, sign the minerals deal.

move forward because the US, the Trump administration could succeed and Trump could get what he wants which is to push back on Putin, be seen as doing so and be seen as a peacemaker. Now, I realize that this may be completely fanciful if in the next few hours this all blows up, I get that. But my job for 40 years, Foreign Service Officer is to try to look at the way forward

And there is a way forward, which is why my frustration is that the administration keeps stepping on its own policy. This fight in the Oval was not necessary, especially because Zelensky is actually –

according to Trump's plan. He's ready to sign the deal. I suspect he's ready to accept a ceasefire if he gets enough security. Trump could win if he has the discipline to see it through. You've been in many rooms with world leaders for very sensitive negotiations. I'm guessing you two have never seen anything quite like that. Did it feel authentic? Did it feel spontaneous? Or was there some show business with cameras and microphones in the room today?

That's a good question. I watched it carefully. I think Vice President Vance was provoking Zelensky. I think Zelensky could have answered it differently. He was trying to explain the details. That's not what I would have done or advised him to do. But then you had the president and the vice president basically bullying a Democratic leader who is fighting for his freedom and ours.

So I don't see what American interest is advanced by having this fight. Was it deliberate? Was it an ambush? It's possible. But the larger question remains, what do we get out of having a fight? I know what Putin gets. What do we get? We get a lot if Ukraine succeeds.

And especially if we get the British and French to carry the heavy load of the security burden. That's quite a success for Trump. Success for America, I'm all on board. But the administration has to follow its own plan and not get distracted by this stuff.

Well, on your point, Ambassador, about it being in U.S. interest to see Ukraine succeed to the extent it can, it did seem we saw President Zelensky trying to make that point when he suggested, yes, I know you're here on the other side of the Atlantic, but you could ultimately feel this. President Trump

pushed back on that, saying, you know, don't tell us what to feel. But also then later suggested Zelensky right now is toying with World War Three, which presumably would involve the U.S. somehow. We aren't immune to conflicts like that, as we saw with the prior World War. So which is it? Yeah. President Trump was just wrong about that. We thought we were safe behind two oceans and then Pearl Harbor. Right. We figured it out fast.

We can't be the lonely bastion of freedom in the world. That's what Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, and Ronald Reagan taught us. And that's the right lesson. The Trump administration in its more wise moments understood that we're in a period of great power rivalry and we have adversaries.

Russia, China, Iran. So, yeah, let's work with our friends to contend with our adversaries. And Ukraine is our friend. Maybe a little difficult sometime, but still. But the president today didn't seem to characterize Russia as an adversary necessarily when he was asked, do you feel in the middle? He said, I'm for both Ukraine and Russia. How did you interpret that? Well,

That's not the language I would have used. And I don't think our position at the UN was very good on Monday where we supported a weak resolution. But if that's the way President Trump wants to play it, OK, play it that way. But then land the deal. And the deal has to provide for Ukraine's security, because if it doesn't, then we've been suckered by the Russians. And, you know, diplomacy, don't be the sucker.

We love talking with practitioners. You're a career diplomat. Bring us into the room and maybe not an extreme like this, but when a meeting devolves, the reporters have left. Who is in the diplomatic delegation who gets their arms around this? Do people go to separate rooms? What do you do now as a diplomat when the meeting just blew up in your face? You advise your principal on how to fix it.

What do you do to set it right? And what do you do in terms of what's possible for you politically?

And, you know, someone like me is supposed to find a way forward. So, you know, if I were advising President Trump, I would say, look, you made your point. Now tell Zelensky, make light of it. Tell Zelensky we need a deal. Let's show people after we've pushed back that we can do this. But you get the boss alone in a room right now. Everyone goes cool off for a minute. I need to talk to you alone. The national security, this is the job for the national security advisor. Yep.

And I think Mike Walz is a serious person. And he was right in there. That's right. Now, I also think that Zelensky should, Zelensky's people should figure out a way for him to approach Trump and make clear that, yeah, he's grateful to the United States. And yeah, he appreciates Trump's role in pushing things forward. Say that. It's true enough and it will help.

So at moments like this, the pros scramble. Don't wring your hands. Don't complain. Figure out what you're going to do. Figure out the way forward and do it fast. Maybe they will have this news conference, Kayleigh. Well, I was just about to ask, Ambassador, do you have confidence that they are able to do that? And we'll see these two.

having corrected or taken the break that they need facing the press once again this afternoon. I'm in an impossible position because we're going to know just how wrong I am. I would say this, because it's Donald Trump who loves drama and twists and turns, he could easily decide to pull it back. He could. Now, I'm not saying he will.

but I don't think all is necessarily lost. He loves TV drama and he's got one going. But you don't milk that drama if you continue the fight. You get more attention and put yourself maybe in a stronger tactical position if you can come out and say, yeah, that was rough, but we've agreed. So if I were advising the president, I would say, okay, you pushed hard enough

Now land land a deal. If you're Donald Trump, you can take credit for saving this day, can't you? If things go right. That would be my advice. Again, they're not going to ask me, but somebody like me is supposed to advise the president on how to succeed on his terms. Ambassador, I apologize for interrupting, but we just got a statement from the president which reads as follows.

It's amazing what comes out through emotion, and I have determined that President Zelensky is not ready for peace if America is involved because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage in negotiations. I don't want advantage. I want peace. He goes on to say he disrespected the United States of America and its cherished Oval Office. He can come back when he is ready for peace. Pretty remarkable here. Well, that's unfortunate, right?

especially because we showed no similar toughness in New York on Monday with a weak U.N. resolution. Not good. And I don't see what American interest is advanced thereby. If there was one voice we could have at the table today, it would be Daniel Freed. Ambassador, thank you so much for being with us at this critical moment in Washington. I'm Joe Matthew. Alongside Kayleigh Lyons, we'll have much more ahead with our signature panel. This is Bloomberg.

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Bloomberg just confirming that the joint press conference that was scheduled to be this afternoon between President Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is canceled after an argument in the Oval Office. Today was originally supposed to be about signing a minerals deal and no sign that is actually going to take place as President Trump has taken to true social, saying he is determined that Zelensky is not ready for peace if America is involved.

He went on to say he disrespected the United States of America and its cherished Oval Office. He can come back when he's ready for peace.

Yeah, so we've got a problem. This was a meeting that devolved into a bit of a shouting match. Voices were raised, an argument took place, and we brought you into the Oval Office for this conversation. It was really once Vice President J.D. Vance started to address and challenge Vladimir Zelensky about not being thankful enough that things started to get chippy. By the time Donald Trump was speaking, he was genuinely angry and threatening to pull out of

all of these talks now. You mentioned his post on Truth Social. It's possible that Zelensky will talk to reporters in the driveway because we're not getting an East Room news conference now. If that happens, we'll bring you into the driveway to hear more from him. His vehicle is still parked in front of the entrance to the West Wing. And we've got our panel with us, Kaylee. Rick Davis and Jeannie Shanzano have been listening and watching along with us. We want to bring you into the Oval before we get their take on what just happened for an unprecedented moment

in politics. Let's watch and listen. Can I ask you? Sure. Yeah? Yeah. Okay. So he occupied our parts, big parts of Ukraine, parts of East and Crimea. So he occupied it on 2014. So

During a lot of years, I'm not speaking about just Biden, but those time was Obama, then President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now the President Trump and God bless, now President Trump will stop him. But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took. He killed people. You know what the contact line is?

2014. 2014. I was not here. That's exactly right. Yes, but during 2014 till 2022,

The situation was the same. People were dying on the contact line. Nobody stopped him. We had conversations with him, a lot of conversations, bilateral conversations. And we signed with him, me, like a new president in 2019, I signed with him the deal. I signed with him, Macron and Merkel, we signed ceasefire.

Ceasefire. All of them told me that he will never go. We signed him gas contract. Gas contract. Yes, but after that, he broken the ceasefire. He killed our people and he didn't exchange prisoners. We signed the exchange of prisoners, but he didn't do it.

What kind of diplomacy, J.D., you are speaking about? What do you mean? I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country. Mr. President, with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office and try to litigate this in front of the American media. Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the President for trying to bring an end to this conflict. Have you ever been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have?

I have been to... I've actually watched and seen the stories, and I know what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour, Mr. President. Do you disagree that you've had problems?

bringing people into your military? And do you think that it's respectful to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country? A lot of questions. Let's start from the beginning. First of all, during the war,

Everybody has problems. Even you, but you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future. God bless. You don't know that. God bless. You don't know that. God bless. You will not have the war. Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going to feel. I'm not telling you. Because you're in no position to dictate that. That's exactly what I'm saying. You're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel.

We're going to feel very good. You will feel influenced. We're going to feel very good and very strong. You will feel influenced. You're right now not in a very good position.

You've allowed yourself to be in a very bad position, and he happens to be right about it. You're not in a good position. You don't have the cards right now. With us, you start having cards. Right now, you're playing cards. You're playing cards. You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War III. You're gambling with World War III.

And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country, that's back to you. Far more than a lot of people said they should have. Have you said thank you once this entire meeting? No, in this entire meeting, have you said thank you? You went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October. Offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the president who's trying to save your country.

Please, you think that if you will speak very loudly about the war, you can... He's not speaking loudly. He's not speaking loudly. Your country is in big trouble. Can I answer? No, no. You've done a lot of talking. Your country is in big trouble. I know. You're not winning. You're not winning this. I know.

You have a damn good chance of coming out okay because of us. Mr. President, we are staying in our country, staying strong from the very beginning of the war. We've been alone, and we are thankful. I said thanks in this cabinet. You haven't been alone. We gave you, through this stupid president, $350 billion. We gave you military equipment, and you men are brave, but they had to use our military equipment. If you didn't have our military equipment,

If you didn't have our military equipment, this war would have been over in two weeks. In three days. I heard it from Putin. In three days. This is something new. Maybe less. In two weeks. Of course, yes. It's going to be a very hard thing to do business like this. I tell you, to say thank you, except that there are disagreements, and let's go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to fight it out in the American media when you're wrong.

We know that you're wrong. But you see, I think it's good for the American people to see what's going on. I think it's very important. That's why I kept this going so long. You have to be thankful. You don't have the cards. You're buried there. People are dying. You're running low on soldiers. Listen, you're running low on soldiers. It would be a damn good thing. Then you tell us, I don't want to cease fire. I don't want to cease fire. I want to go and I wanted this. Look.

If you could get a ceasefire right now, I tell you, you'd take it so the bullets stop flying and your men stop getting killed. Of course we want to stop the war. But you're saying you don't want a ceasefire. But I said to you. I want a ceasefire. With guarantees. Because you'll get a ceasefire faster than an agreement. Ask our people about ceasefire, what they think.

That wasn't with me. That wasn't with me. That was with a guy named Biden who was not a smart person. That was with Obama. Excuse me. That was with Obama who gave you sheets and I gave you javelins. I gave you the javelins to take out all those tanks. Obama gave you sheets. In fact, the statement is Obama gave sheets and Trump gave javelins. You got to be more thankful.

Because let me tell you, you don't have the cards. With us, you have the cards. But without us, you don't have any cards. And there you have it, the dispute.

In the Oval Office between President Trump, Vice President J.D. Vance and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, which has now resulted in the cancellation of a press conference that was supposed to be held at this hour with Trump and Zelensky and Donald Trump saying on True Social that Zelensky can return when he is ready for peace. We are watching outside the White House to see if the Ukrainian president does indeed depart and whether or not he speaks to press in the aftermath of this, given that the scheduled time at which he could have done so has now been called off.

Yeah, we should note, by the way, that this is an incredibly busy day at the White House. There are scores of reporters there who also came from Europe, came from Ukraine, not to mention, of course, the American reporters who were there for a very important day that we expected to see the signing of a minerals deal between the U.S. and Ukraine. The briefing room is packed.

The Oval Office was packed with those selected to be part of the pool today, but there will be a throng of reporters. I believe Josh Wingrove described it as a zoo when he got there earlier this morning. They're in the driveway, as you can see now on Bloomberg TV and on YouTube, the vehicle that brought the

Vladimir Zelensky to the White House is waiting for him just outside the West Wing entrance. And if we were able to pull out a bit, you'd see the sticks, as they call it, the stakeout position where microphones and cameras are waiting for him. So, Kayleigh, he may well take some questions. We'll find out together. Indeed. And while we wait to find out, we turn back to our signature political panel who was with us today, Rick Davis and Jeanne Shanzano, both Bloomberg Politics contributors.

Rick, given what we all just listened to, again, the tone, the language that these three were using with each other in the Oval Office, of all places, are you surprised that things cannot move forward in the aftermath, or at least don't seem to be moving forward now?

Yeah, you would think that they'd set aside the emotion that the statement referred to from the White House and regroup with their teams. I can imagine National Security Advisor Walz is in conversations with the president, vice president, and his team trying to make something out of this. You don't get these opportunities very often to have

Something go forward toward a constructive peace agreement like today was planned to be and allow something like the spectacle in the Oval Office to derail it.

But the statement speaks for itself. It sounds like there's no further progress that will be had today, and these teams will have to reset and find a new avenue toward diplomacy. So this is not followed along the lines of any diplomatic effort I've ever seen. Lots of momentum coming into today with the meetings earlier this week with

the prime minister of the UK and the president of France. And you would have thought that this would have resulted in a very positive, constructive outcome. Instead, you have high fives in the Kremlin. This is exactly what they would have wanted to see happen. And it's going to be a big step backwards in stopping the fight that Donald Trump claims is his number one priority. Stop the bloodshed. High fives in the Kremlin, Jeannie.

Would it be smart politically for Zelensky to come out of that West Wing entrance we're looking at right now and take questions from reporters, try to make this case? Or does he dig the hole deeper for Ukraine? You know, it is such a tough call for Zelensky. He had one big job to do, which was to try to mend a heretofore difficult relationship with Donald Trump today. And the clip you played is so important because you can hear him at the offset of that clip.

trying, you know, fairly innocently to explain to J.D. Vance and the president the history. He is a war leader for three years. The history of his country going back to 2014, the two Minsk agreements signed that Vladimir Putin, after invading his country, did not live up to and trying to explain to them why.

why they cannot trust or he cannot trust Putin to live up to an agreement now. And then you hear JD Vance come in like a quite frankly, like he was talking to one of his young children or something berating Zelensky. And then, of course, Donald Trump

jumped right into that. And, you know, the reality is, is that this is going to be very, very tough to repair. It doesn't mean we won't get that rare earth mineral deal, but this goes so far beyond that. And I think one thing to watch for here is can Marco Rubio and Waltz, who are more

interventionist tradition in the traditional sense, walk Donald Trump off the ledge here and walk this back and get this deal back on track. I don't know if it's possible, but there is a big division in this administration between those who are non interventionists like JD Vance, who, by the way, in the Senate did not support aid for Ukraine and those like Rubio and Waltz. And we have to see if they can bring Donald Trump back to the idea that a deal

on the rare mineral or earth minerals would be give us a leg up economically. And then that would sort of, you know, lay the groundwork for them to move forward with a potentially relationship to be built on with Zelensky. But very, very tough for Zelensky. Three years at war. So many people dead and displaced to have to listen to the vice president demanding that he be more responsible.

express more gratitude and quite frankly, the ahistorical renditions of what has happened in his own country.

Well, to Jeannie's point, Rick, as we consider the cast of characters here beyond just the president and vice president, Secretary of State Marco Rubio, National Security Advisor Mike Waltz, those who are more hawkish in Congress, who have long supported Ukraine. I'm thinking here Senators Lindsey Graham and others. Do you expect a collective voice here could come to check the impulses of the president and vice president on this one? Or is it ultimately what they say that will go? Because President Trump is suggesting he's communicating directly with Vladimir Putin.

Yeah, I think that's a very good question, Kayleigh, what the net effect is going to be with the president's leaders in the Republican Party who are, as you described them, more hawkish toward the Kremlin. So we've not seen much evidence of that, although many of them did come out and vocally reinforced the fact that when the president called Zelensky a dictator, he

They pushed back on that and made it clear that Vladimir Putin's the dictator. So that being said, they have not been, Congress has not played even a marginal role in the peace process, if you want to call it that, after today. And so I can't imagine anybody's going to want to stick their neck out too soon after this

debacle to see where it goes from here. So I think everyone's going to wind up taking a big step back and assess the damage in our relationships that this will result from, the relationship with our ally, the Ukraine's NATO members and what their reaction to this is going to be.

other members of our global partners and allies that we have who see this Ukraine war as a microcosm of conflicts around the world that could be to come. And this is obviously going to fan a lot of insecurity in every corner of the world after today.

If you're just joining us on Bloomberg TV and radio, we were supposed to be bringing you a joint news conference between Trump and Zelensky at this time. It has been canceled after a meeting in the Oval Office.

turned sour. Voices were raised. An argument was had. And frankly, it's unclear exactly where this relationship is going and what the status of talks are with Ukraine and with Russia. We are spending time with our signature panel right now, Rick Davis and Jeannie Shanzano, as we try to get our heads around everything that just happened here. Rick, what takes place now that President Zelensky has left the White House? The diplomatic corps, national security advisor have to hash out what might be

the next step here. What do you expect?

Yeah, I'm sure the team is meeting right now in the Oval Office with the President of the United States, the National Security Advisor, and other leadership within the White House, those who attended the meeting and those who have responsibilities for the various branches of service that will be involved normally in an event like this with a country as close as we are to Ukraine. And the real question is, where do you go from here? How do you look at

a trajectory that Donald Trump clearly had a plan, right? He has been talking directly to Vladimir Putin, creating an opening, massaging egos in the Kremlin to get them to a place where he thinks he could get a deal, probably managing some of his public statements about Ukraine with that in mind.

which has strained the relationship with Ukraine, but otherwise has resulted in what we thought was going to be the first step, a agreement to give U.S. access to rare earths in order to, in essence, pay back some of the money that we've invested in the Ukraine effort. That's now shot. The real question is, too, to me,

that Vladimir Zelensky and his team will meet back probably at the hotel right across the Lafayette Plaza from the White House. You can see one from the other. And they're going to have to assess, do they stay in Washington? Do they get on a plane and leave? Do they continue to hold interviews and press availabilities that are currently scheduled? Or do they take those off the schedule?

Look, this was not a good day for either individual. You know, Vladimir Zelensky came to an Oval Office visit knowing Donald Trump well and knowing that he has an explosive and erratic personality sometimes. And I don't put any of this on Zelensky, but his reactions didn't matter.

result in a meeting that was constructive either. And so both teams are assessing that to this minute to determine where they go from here. I think we had all drawn this conclusion already, but Bloomberg is now confirming with sources familiar that the U.S. and Ukraine did not sign that minerals deal today. They failed to sign the agreement on natural resources. Jeannie, it's also worth pointing out, as we have just seen now, a third world leader leaving the White House this week.

This follows a meeting which, by all accounts, seemed to be successful between President Trump and the UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer yesterday, a similar one with the French President Emmanuel Macron on Monday. Where is Europe in all of this? Having just had those meetings, having those two countries, having pledged support for peacekeeping troops if a deal is ultimately agreed to, how are our allies likely viewing what went down today?

Well, they have to just be as stunned as we all are. I mean, this was supposed to be, to your point, Kayleigh, the bookend of this week of meetings that started off with Macron and Stormer and seemed at least on the face of them to have been pretty successful in terms of...

you know, trying to pull Donald Trump over to the recognition that the United States has a role to play in securing the future of Ukraine. And that is obviously not, you know, not at all what we've seen go on here. And I do think we have to think long and hard now about this deal. This deal was first broached by Zelensky last year. It seems to have been Waltz and Rubio

who tried to bring it up again as a means to get Donald Trump on board because we know he likes to make deals. And this would allow us to get as many rare earth minerals maybe as China or at least move in that direction. But all along the way, he has been no friend of Vladimir Zelensky or Ukraine. And of course, now he is a vice president who has long expressed support

of consternation about our support of Ukraine. So, you know, as we watch this go down, I am not so sure that it is going to be resurrected quite as easily as some people think, because for Donald Trump, this is, you know, a sense that he has long had that there are points at which Vladimir Putin has spoken that he reiterates often. And he has a very, very different view of the war in Ukraine than the United States has expressed prior.

Jeanne Shanzano and Rick Davis, our signature panel Bloomberg Politics contributors on a breaking news Friday.

here in Washington, D.C. I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Lyons. We want to bring you back to the White House right now. You just saw President Zelensky's SUV with a van carrying the Ukrainian delegation head right down the driveway out of the complex, as Rick said, across Lafayette Park to the Hay-Adams Hotel. They drove right by our tent on the North Lawn where we find Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall right now with the latest. What else is going on there, Tyler?

Well, Joe, just a stark difference from when Zelensky arrived at the White House this morning. He was greeted by an honor guard. 56 service members carrying flags of each of the U.S. states and territories greeted him. I watched him and President Trump have that handshake right in front of the West Wing and then just how quickly this has devolved. I mean, it

waiting for Zelensky to come out here on the White House, every reporter came out. You could hear a pin drop as we waited for that door to open. Ultimately, with Zelensky coming out, not answering any of our questions. We also saw the rest of his delegation pile into their vans as they

slowly drove out of these Northwest gates right behind me. So big developments about what happens here next. We're waiting to see if we get any additional information from this White House, if they're going to brief us reporters about what the next steps are coming. But Bloomberg News confirming that that critical minerals deal was not signed, something that President Trump said was critical for the U.S. to move forward when it comes to negotiations to end this war in Ukraine.

All right, Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall live at the White House on a historic day. I think we can all say thank you so much. And we want to add the voice now of Kelly Grieco, senior fellow with the Stimson Center's Reimagining U.S. Grand Strategy program with us here on Bloomberg TV and radio. Kelly, we have been checking in with you throughout the duration of this war, which is now, of course, in its fourth year. And we should all bear in mind that the President Zelensky, who we just saw leave the White House, is also leading a country who is still actively fighting

at war. And I wonder how this scene playing out and Vladimir Putin, obviously going to be able to bear witness to this impacts what will actually be happening on on the ground and how things move forward from here. Yes. Well, thank you for having me. I will say it's a little speechless having just watched what happened. You know, I think on

The good news, if there is any at the moment, is that just in the last few days, the Ukrainian government has said publicly that they're able to sustain themselves in terms of funds, equipment and ammunition for at least the first half of this year.

So there won't be an immediate impact on the battlefield in terms of material shortages. The only thing I can anticipate if they're for some reason, the United States cut them off of information, intelligence sharing. We've been providing a lot of ISR, intelligence surveillance reconnaissance information that helps the Ukrainians with targeting. And if that was to be cut off or if they were to lose access to Starlink, which, of course, is a must company, that would have a major impact.

It's pretty remarkable to your point, Kelly. I never thought we'd be talking about a moment like this. Everyone we're talking with is sharing the same sentiment that you have here. It's like that moment you can't believe you're getting into a fight. Or was it? Was that stagecraft at the same time? This is a conversation that a lot of Donald Trump supporters were probably looking forward to hearing and seeing, not fans of President Zelensky. And they don't think that he has been grateful enough. What's your thought?

Yes, I mean, I will say that my interpretation of what happened is I see it as it looked to me like he was baited, to be honest. I think the administration was probably unhappy with his remarks at Munich, which was sort of a rebuke of the administration. I think they're concerned in the administration that he that Zelensky is an impediment to peace, that he is going to.

The hardest piece in some ways, maybe to get peace because he's still very stuck on ambitious goals for Ukraine that may not be realistic. And I think there's some probably desire to maybe publicly try to rein him in. And this seems to me like it was a tactic. It just seemed like sort of a setup, right, because he didn't initiate this confrontation was initiated by Ukraine.

You know, the vice president, Zelensky did not handle this well. To be very clear, he fell for the bait. That's clear for sure.

But I think that, you know, how this plays out, this is a risky strategy, how this plays out with the American public is going to be very interesting, because on the one hand, there's the sense that Zelensky has maybe not been sufficiently grateful and, you know, that we've done a lot. But it also looks a little bit like the president is, you know, publicly humiliating a wartime Democratic leader of another country. And so how that plays out is hard to say. Yeah.

But this is clearly a very bad, bad moment. And I think the real sign to me will be whether Zelensky stays in D.C. or not, and there's a second meeting, or if he ends up going home. Well, I guess we're all waiting to find out. Meantime, you're seeing plenty of reaction pouring in on social media, Kelly. The prime minister of Poland, Donald Tusk,

saying, dear Zelensky, tagging him on Twitter, dear Ukrainian friends, you are not alone. And with that said, Kelly, we just have a minute left here. But even if the U.S. were to say, all right, we're done with Ukraine now, all of our backing is gone. Is Europe able to step in to fill that void? They can fill a lot of voids, but there are certain niche capabilities like Patriot interceptors, space-based capabilities that are not they're not able to replace that only the United States has those.

Kelly Grieco, Senior Fellow, Stimson Center. Reimagining U.S. Grand Strategy Program, one of many voices of experience we've brought to you over the past couple of hours here on Bloomberg TV and radio.

Yeah, we do know that President Zelensky and the Ukrainian delegation have left the White House, but they have not yet left Washington, nor have they made plans to expedite that process, to our knowledge at least, though they did not, at least at this time, sign that natural resources deal with the United States. Again, that is what was supposed to happen.

Today, we were expecting to see it, in fact, at this hour. And that, of course, is not moving forward as President Trump is suggesting that Vladimir Zelensky today is gambling with World War Three. We heard some pretty wild rhetoric together. That's what you can expect on this program every day from Washington, D.C. We'll bring it to you unfiltered and live when we can. And we'll let you know what's going on when we get back together. Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast.

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