Ep69: 那些背书包的说唱文化人，以及我们享受的 Underground Hip Hop
02:34:37 Share

I never knew a love, love, love, a love like this. Gotta be something for me to write this. Queen, I ain't seen you in a minute. Wrote this letter and finally decided to send it. Signed, sealed, delivered for us to grow together. Love has no limit. Let's spin it slow forever. I know your heart is weathered by what's just here to you. I know your heart is weathered by what's just here to you.

I ain't gon' saw them 'cause I probably did it too Because of you villains I handle with care Some niggas recognize your life but they can't handle the glare You know I ain't the type to walk around with matching shirts A relationship is effort, I will match your work I wanna be the one to make you happy as it hurts you the most They say the end is near, it's important that we close To the most high Regardless of what happened on him, let's rely Yeah, so, so There is a light special for you

Yeah, yeah, second It's important we communicate And tune the fate of this union to the right pitch I never call you my bitch or even my boo There's so much in a name and so much more in you Few understand a union of woman and man And sex and a tingle is where they assuming it land But that's fly by night for you in the sky right For when these cold shy nights moon you my light

If heaven had a height, you would be that tall. Ghetto to coffee shop, I see that all. Let's stick to understanding and we won't fall. For better or worse times, I hope to me you call. So I pray every day more than anything. Friends will stay as we begin to lay. This foundation for a family. Love ain't simple. Why can't it be anything worth having? You work at annually. Granted, we've known each other for some time. It don't take a whole day to recognize sunshine. I was very little.

Hey, hello everyone, welcome to the latest episode of Hammer Time Podcast. This episode, we are talking to our old friend, Wang Qingshi, a.k.a. Beijing Daddy. Hello everyone, I'm very happy to be back on Hammer Time. Let's talk.

Welcome.

Highway to Brisbane. 这就完了,你不得介绍一下吗? 没有,比较随意的,即兴的创作,没有什么介绍的,主要神秘一点,得有一个那个 artist persona,神秘一点,不多说,大家去听一听。 你的形象好像也不是很神秘。 别拆台嘛。

And this EP beat is made by Lao Lin. Yes. Is it the first time for Ash to use Lao Lin's beat? How do you feel? It feels very special, very comfortable, very happy. Lao Lin's beat brings out the taste. Thank you. There are three producers.

Yes. Lin, do you want to share some of the stories behind the two beats? I don't think there's any particular story. I was just playing around with some soul music. There's nothing special. But I welcome everyone to listen to it. It's not just about people. Everyone should listen to it.

背包说唱

本来想在上期顺便说了的,但是后来发现,其实单独拿出来做一点延伸,其实也能单独做一起。 然后呢,因为当时正好跟阿石哥哥面积了一下,又面积了一下,我们觉得一块聊应该是比较好。 所以我们三个今天就来聊聊这个话题。 在聊这个话题的这期间,嗯。

We also shared our opinions, including some articles, videos, music, etc. So this episode may be based on the content we have talked about, and everyone can share their opinions. Okay, okay. First of all, when we said backpacking rap last time, it was first said by Little Brother.

I have a certain understanding of backpacking, that is, it may have a specific era background, 2000 years ago.

and the image backpack rapper gave me was more like a "near" type of person, and the content he said was more direct, more conscious, so-called "conscious" rap. In the past, I actually had a little bit of a grudge against this type of music, whether it was rappers or their music, or there was some kind of funny meaning behind it. But it made me suddenly have a

This is a movie I watched a while ago. I've shared the movie with you guys, but you guys haven't watched it yet, right? Not yet. I know how to watch it. It's a bit boring. I'm sure you've watched it. The movie "Brown Sugar" from 2002. I've seen this movie on social media for so many years. Everyone has been discussing whether to talk about it.

I think it's interesting that this movie is very popular. It's actually a black rom-com, but the theme is that two young people have a strong love for hip-hop since they were young. And then they treat hip-hop as their lover, and the last two people are also loyal.

Overall, it's a very happy ending, a relaxing comedy. Of course, there are some couples in the middle, and they quarrel. I think when I first watched this movie, my feelings were actually quite touched. But then I read some articles about Backpack Rap again, and I feel like I want to talk about this type of movie.

First of all, I want to say that there is a piece in it. The male and female owners are actually very emotional about each other. After all, they have known each other since they were young and then played together. When they were young, they saw Slick Rick on the street for the first time. Freestyle.

When they were very young, they were attracted to hip-hop. Their growth followed the progress of hip-hop. The woman grew up to be a music critic. She first wrote music reviews in LA Times, then went to XXL and The Source. The man became an ANR executive of a record company when he grew up.

And then when they were in their twenties, it was probably before the 00s, and hip-hop had become commercialized. And then there were a lot of hip-hop that they thought was completely different from the hip-hop they had always liked when they were young. Very commercialized, very boring hip-hop. And then finally, they

you are a perfect you are the perfect verse over a tight beat to hip-hop

-

听春天的一言难尽。 一言难尽,而当时看完了这个片段说,这太 tmkorni 了。 是,不过电影它需要有点那种戏剧化的表现嘛,就加上它电影拍摄的那个背景离现在稍微有一点点这个年头,所以可以理解,korni 确实是 korni。

I think the movie is very deep and deep-rooted. It's very chronic. Especially considering the background of the time and the characters in the movie. The heroine is typical and representative. For example, the hero wanted to leave the house.

to create a music brand that they really wanted to do. Because at that time, their brand was trying to promote a new group of new people, a black rapper and a white rapper. And they were like

Younger boy

I used to love her.

It's a thing. Because I think this is a real hip-hop. What's the bag? What's the ground? These things are all a very pure man's thing. Yes, and then the song of Common was too high before. But at that time, everyone was young. You know, it's just that he said something and listened to it. But in fact, a lot of things, you can't help but think about that song.

I believe he didn't think much about it when he was writing it. Like you said, he took it as a woman. Actually, many of the things he said were not good for women. It's weird. You can't think about it. I never thought about it. I always say it. He just meant it.

如果大家不知道这个意思,这个歌是怎么回事啊? 这个歌叫 I Used to Love Her,是康文那个 94 年吧,第二张专辑里的一个歌。 讲的是就是说他把 hip hop 比作一个女孩,然后就剧透了。

It's okay. At first you thought it was a love story between him and a girl. At first the girl was very nice, pure and innocent. She was a big slut. She was very street-like. She was not very... She was not very... And then she was like... Finally, the girl came out and she was hip-hop. That's the kind of girl she was.

It was a new way of creating music at that time. It's also a representative song for us early on.

阿石你听过这首歌吗? 你肯定知道。 应该听过,应该听过。 他可能这个歌刚创作出来的时候就是没有人这么搞, 所以他有一个新鲜感的价值在里面。 后面很多人觉得这牛逼,然后都学,学的人多了, 然后后面听歌的人听太多了, 再听最之前的这一首,再听 My Youthful Lover, 可能就没有刚出来的时候大家听那个感觉, 这我猜了。

Yes, it's too early for that. So many of the three-screen versions are not very strict. It's a lot of things that take a lot of time to test. I never thought I would say something like this from Lin's mouth. You mean that Common is a bit misinterpreted when he compares hip-hop to a woman? Not really.

I know they're sincere about it.

I was thinking about the good side, but actually, many things that were said were still very... You feel like you're a little depressed now. How to say it? After all, times are different. That's right. The moral line of social consensus may be different in different places. The line that has passed for decades is going to the right or to the left. After moving, you used to be on the left side, but now you're on the right side.

它有一个时代背景要加进去在听的时候。 对对对,所以这个事不能强求,就是说知道他们是好心就得了。

其实我从来都没有在这个角度上想过,但是我就是单纯的就觉得第一我很赞同老尹刚才说的,就这首歌被捧的有点太过了,第二是我就是真心觉得他特别矫情,就是什么献给 hiphop 的一封情书,那就是这种,其实这种说法你到现在都是很普遍你知道吗,就是

It's not that there are no people who have this kind of thoughts or attitude now. In fact, there are still many. He often talks to you sometimes. The attitude he showed and his understanding of music is very humble. In "Are You Still Loving Her", you look carefully at the lyrics. It's really deep. If you just treat it as a love song, it seems to be okay. Although it is really sad. In the end, I told you that the girl I love is hip-hop.

I didn't think it was a misinterpreted suspicion. I just thought it was very courteous. I thought it was a little bit of a sly way to save me. This is the feeling. Hip-hop saved my life, right? I said this before. To give this kind of more courteous person a point of view of the book, it is also able to be courteous.

Oh. Oh.

I think Eric Bardo is a very cool woman. I really appreciate his talent and his voice. But I think this song is disgusting. His love is also a bit of a comedy.

可能就说我如果是跟他们同时代的一些青少年 比较受影响的这种青少年的话 我可能也会喜欢 但是就是以我现在这个年纪 还有我现在这种思考角度 我真的觉得这首歌让我就特别受不了 就唯独 Eric Bapu 就这一首歌 Love of My Life, Old to Hip Hop 这首歌简直太侥幸了 听都听不下去 就浑身起鸡皮疙瘩 是挺窘的 我也感觉是

Yes, I think the three of us sitting here can sit together and chat for a long time. We don't like music or hate it. We don't like to question or criticize it. We don't like to express it. It's too much. We don't like to express it in 2024. We didn't expect it in 2024.

会怎么看这个音乐。 没错,没错,没错。 阿石不是还说你们的读者有很多也是类似于这种 hip-hop head, 你还经常教育他们吗? 是的,因为今天说要主要聊这个 backpack rap, 我就看了挺多资料,包括这论坛上各种讨论, 我发现,

Backpacking is a term that is defined in the hip-hop scene. One is that the rapper you are rapping to is a backpack rapper. The other is that backpack rap is music that backpackers listen to. It is from the perspective of the listener to define and understand the backpack phenomenon. As I mentioned earlier, we hope that there will be a lot of

I think it's a very popular concept among the audience. It's a concept that many people have heard about.

顾名思义也是滴一堆盘背在书包里面,然后每天就听歌。 我之前不是教育,我之前友好的和我们的群友交流。 可能小孩小朋友,16,17,18 岁这样,每天发在唱片店里面的照片。 然后我就跟他说,你这个年龄就是...

I shouldn't do such a thing. Of course, this is my personal opinion. But what I said to him was that I should be in the age of dating a girl. Don't stay in the movie store all day. In the future, I will be older. I will be older. I will do this again. It's a little too pretentious, I feel. But maybe people really like it. It can be understood. Isn't that the age of old people? Is it? We used to be like this. But anyway, I think this is what he...

很多这个 那个怎么说 就对嘻哈这个事儿比较喜欢 他又想琢磨的人 他就 尤其是

um

反正怎么说呢 就是说这个可能就是说这类音乐 它会吸引一些比较特定的听众 就是他比较喜欢这种相对于积极一点的呀 就不是说那种吃喝嫖啊 对也不是吃喝嫖 就是那种 嗯 明白 街头话题的这种

嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 ung 嗯 嗯 ung 嗯 ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung ung

Wang Qishi said that he didn't mean to speculate if the backpackers really like it or just want to pretend to be. Although he said he was pretending to be, I actually thought the same way. I always resisted the word "backpack rap" and I think it's a belated word.

事实上现在 backpack rap 和 backpack rapper 好像也就是那么一个 有点调侃讽刺的一种意味 整体偏贬义吧我感觉现在 对 是 因为我几年前

Right.

I actually saw a lot of people like this on Douban. And then the feeling of giving people is very forced. First of all, I'm not saying they are really, not saying they really like it or what. I believe they actually really like this kind of music. But they seem to always show that what I hear is really good. And the popular things are not good, just garbage. I don't like this attitude very much. Because at that time I was pursuing cool. I think

The cool music was very good at that time, especially around 16 years. From 16 to 18 or 19 years. I think it's a little bit late. At that time, I really started to listen to popular music. I just think the mainstream music is so good now. At that time, Travis just released a few albums. I'm sorry to mention this person. I just think Travis just released a few albums at that time. Especially in 16 years, at that time,

foreign

I really don't know why, I just think it's very pretentious. Because when I talked to many people, the attitude they showed was that they were very dissatisfied with mainstream music. I just don't know what's in it, how is it? In fact, you can also see it in Douban's current ratings. There are many very mainstream and commercial things, they are very ungrateful.

And then why did I have such a change later? Now I'm more willing to listen to something that's more backpack or underground. It's because I think things are really getting more and more popular after two years. Right? We've been talking about it every time we've been talking about it. There seems to be nothing to say. There have been some major topics that I and Lao Lin have prepared in recent years. In fact, it has nothing to do with things that are more popular now.

From the beginning, De La Soul, Little Brother, and so on. I actually want to listen to some of the songs that I neglected before, and then I prefer to listen to the ones that are more underground. There is also one that is more popular now. I also think that they are very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very,

You sing some street music, and you are just like a rail. And your production is not good. In the beginning of the second year, I just feel that the popular things are getting worse. In addition, I have a strong feeling of nostalgia for the millennium 00s. So in recent years, my overall habit and hobby of listening to music is

So I think my impression of backpacking

这些转变其实都来自于我的逆反心理 你知道吗 我的逆反 我就是一直在逆反 就曾经你们 你们这些人 你们这些背书包的 说什么主流的不好 我就觉得你们傻逼 所以我就追那些酷的 追主流的商业的这些东西 然后等到现在 你们现在全都是表现自己 就是因为我现在特别讨厌那种 假装是街头的 很 fuckboy 的那种 我就觉得他们特别傻逼 所以我又开始重新回听底下了

可以理解。 我觉得你刚才说的这些情况是我也能理解, 但是它主要分,还可以再细分为两种。

One is that it may have been heard earlier, and then it's been long since it was first heard. Especially if you listen to things from the 00s or 90s, it's hard. It's not hard, but if you want to listen to it again, the things from the 2010s may need some change.

Right, that's one aspect. Another aspect is that young people nowadays are really pursuing their own self. So they may have a feeling of rebellion and resistance against some mainstream and popular things. So there are both.

-

-

Like what Lin said, the early modern music was considered to be a "backpack" or something that was more underground. When they first came out, it was more like the mainstream hip-hop music that people could hear. It was more gangster. It was a must-listen, or it was more like the crime scene in the 2000s. At that time, Dong Haiang made a lot of commercial hip-hop music.

But in the 2010s and later, it was also because the threshold for independent musicians to release music was much lower. Before, you had to go to the company and persuade them to release a song for you. Otherwise, you couldn't release it. Then maybe your idea would be subjugated to the management of the company. Or you don't deal with people, they won't let you come out. But now, any idea, any independent musician who wants to make music, they can go on.

um

It's much higher. Maybe as a movement or a trend, it's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not as much as before. It's not

Right, I agree with you. Especially in the 90s and 2000s, it's different. In the early days, you'd hear about the songs by Amos Fear. In the 90s, it was very difficult to release a song independently. You had to contact the distributors.

唱片店甚至,然后你得成立厂牌,你得自己到处去和那些宣传的口去沟通。 所以 90 年代你看就是说它这个所谓的咱们就扩大一点,那地下说唱的这个场景,它其实是按地域分的特别明显的。 但是到 00 年之后,其实就这个整个这个地下这个所谓的事就已经进入主流了。

Including the movie "Brown Sugar" which was shot on a big screen. And many mainstream media reported the so-called underground rap. So they were doing well in the early 2000s. It's not as bad as it sounds. So in the early 90s or early 2000s,

They actually have a community inside of them. You can see that they are everywhere. They are in every album. They are also in every group. They are a very obvious group. But in the middle of 2003, 2004, 2005, there was a period when this thing was a bit out of place. There was a lot of "beautiful" stuff. We can talk about it later. Beautiful stuff. Yes, beautiful stuff. Like Jay-Z Hip-Hop. It was released in that period.

It was the late 00s, around 2007 or 2008. The music production was mature, so there were a lot of beats. At first, there were no beats.

You can see that all the ming tape rappers used other people's beats. But when the computer industry developed, and it was 08, 09, 10, you could see that the beat was getting better. So everyone could choose their favorite beats. You can see that when it came out in 09, 10, Kendrick Lamar and Tyler came out.

其实到这个时候他们在网上发自己的音乐就已经没有所谓的地下的概念了,因为成本很低嘛。 你就传到网上,一切都是你自己能决定的东西。 所以就是说慢慢的这个所谓的地下的这个概念也就不太重要了。 我是这么感觉的。 主要是 community 淡化掉了。 对,没错,没错。

形象气质的那么一个定义了。

Underground Hip Hop is bigger. These two groups have some kind of interaction. Yes, there is some kind of interaction. You can't say that the underground hip hop is completely included. But there is a big interaction.

-

Right, and you can extend it to alternative, like this kind of other type of music. Sometimes it's really mixed. And I've always had a bad impression of Backpack Rap. Like I said, they seem to be always, whether it's the audience or the music creators, they seem to have a very

I think it's a very "old" or "highly" image. I'm anti-commercial, I'm underground, I'm very legit. I think it's very real. So I always think this label is very plain and often used for ridiculing. I thought of the video I shared with you before about Merce in HipHopDX.

He was talking about the contrast between hip-hop and business. I agree with this kind of classification. But Lin may think that underground hip-hop has a very clear style. Yes.

Yeah, I think the MERS thing is very misleading. Especially if you don't know anything about it, you might get confused after watching it. Yeah, it's a bit confusing because it's hard to explain. Because he didn't explain it clearly. It's not that he didn't know, he might have deliberately not wanted to say it like that. That's what I think.

Everyone said that in the comments of the video. Why did they put Redman as the bottom line? I think so too. But if you look at what he said, you can understand that he is a more independent attitude. But the so-called underground rap or underground hip-hop, the label still has a more clear definition. That bunch of people, to be honest, their style is also relatively close.

- Conscious, right?

Conscious Rhyme is defined by the content. It's not a style definition. I don't like that label. I agree. I think it's very vague. No label defines music by the content. I'm just kidding. But you can say it's Conscious Rhyme. You can also say it's Alternative Rhyme. You can also say it's Backpacker. It's okay.

Although his image is more like a middle-aged man with a leather jacket and a crossbody. But usually when you say backpacker, common is also considered. Another typical example is Talib Kweli. Talib Kweli was in the early days, during the period of reflection internal. You can say he was an underground rapper. Throughout his career, you can say he was a conscious rapper.

You can also say he's a backpacker. That's fine. But if you say he's an alternative, it doesn't seem to be enough. He doesn't belong to that aesthetic. A mostaf is also different from a talib qawli. Another extreme example is, for example, company flow. You can say he's an underground, right? But if you say conscious, or alternative, or a backpacker, maybe. A backpacker is not very typical of him.

But like Conscious Alternative, people usually don't use it. Bikepacker is more typical. If you have to list a few people, who would you use? Actually, the most typical is MostSize and Talib Kali. You mean the backpacking tools? Yes, Flexfire. Really, these are the most typical, I think.

Although these tags are often used in a mixed way, when you mention a specific type, you will have a very specific image in your mind. For example, when you mentioned backpack wrap, the first thing I thought of was Black Star. And then Common must also have it, especially the look of being so affectionate. And then there is another more typical one, I think J.Cole is also a backpack. J.Cole's new one is right.

Although everyone says that Backpack Rap is in a specific era, it is also very obvious after 2010. I don't know why I feel that way. J.Cole is actually a person after 2010. But you see, whether it's his music or his image, he is very backpacked. Yes, he may be deeply affected by these things.

嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 ong 嗯 ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong ong

Let me think, maybe it's also the very representative group in New York. The group called "Digging the Crisps" and the group called "Black Moon". What else? Let me think.

Actually, MERS is also considered. MERS is considered. Yes. You see, when you mention these two labels, you may think that they are often mixed up, and there are cross-references between them. But I can respond to different specific people with specific labels. I don't know what Wang Qingzhi thinks.

underground

It's just a concept that describes people's state from the word. I feel that this concept has changed a lot until now. What is underground rap? Because now there are many

搞 Rage 的学 Playboy Cardi 那些小小孩,可能十几岁那帮人,他们管自己现在的标签也会说是 Underground Rap,但这个跟就像你们说的或者以前说的这种 Underground Rap,这明显完全不是一个东西了。 对了,对了,对了,不是说是一个广义的,其实就是我一直说的是一个狭义的 Underground,就是说是一类音乐了,对对对。

-

How can Tyler be considered underground hip-hop? But the organization All Future seems to have the same style as the West Coast. The West Coast likes this old and narrow-minded underground rap. Because I've been saying this word for too long, so I'm just reacting to that style.

Especially Tyler and Earl, everyone knows that they like MF Doom. And then Domo from their group. Didn't I tell you about him before? He used to work with a lot of artists in the underground. DJ Evidence. No, not DJ. Evidence and J.Rolls.

I think Art Fuchsia is still underground. Art Fuchsia is a Tyler of a certain era. After that, maybe Art Fuchsia is a different style after the group is not active. But Art Fuchsia itself is very low. I think after 2010, especially this group, their temperament is very rich.

It's hard to describe it with a so-called label from the early days. The early days were pretty simple. The level of the people was not that high. After 2010, you can clearly see that everyone's image is more three-dimensional.

to maintain an image and do something. It can be very rich and natural. In the early days, you would still hear some kind of abyss or something inside. Or competitive. That is to say, the times are different. It has a lot of time and space, the limitation of time and space. I think it's also one aspect. Yes. Yes, a while ago, when I was chatting with Lin, it was easy for me to

I don't think it's a fight. I still can't understand the definition of underground K-pop. When I listened to "Dialect People" a while ago, I thought, "How can this be called underground?" Because I think it's actually very... It may be that it didn't achieve any greater success in the business world under the background of that era. But if you let me listen to it now, I think it's like Black Licious or something else.

I think it's not underground at all. It's not underground at all. But the old neighbor thinks it's very underground. No, this is the definition of the underground style.

So I think our whole listening process and understanding of these things are actually a little different. Because Lin has been listening to this kind of thing professionally since she was very young. But I wasn't focused on listening to this part before. And now when I listen to it again, I'm just talking about these definitions.

依然觉得很模糊,然后觉得很不好判断。 很多东西不是说你从音乐的, 比如说其实听着也挺地下的, 尤其是 Black Leisure 第一张, 那个 Nia 真是挺地下的, 但是你要说 Diarrhea of the People, 可能第一张也是比较典型的他们地下的风格, 第二张你要说比较主流,可能吧, 但是所以换句话说到那个时代,

这个所谓的地下这个词儿, 它一直不是就是说, 字面意义上的地下。 它就是那一圈人的那种音乐的一个风格。 对,你像 Deadly People, 他们和 The Ferry,那个 Alcoholics, 然后我当时还说了谁嘛, Planet Asia, 就这些人他们那个风格, Smaller Members, 他们的风格都是一样的。 然后他们可能从 90 年代后期, 就是开始就一直是这个风格。 所以就是说...

This is a typical one, actually it's a kind of D-share, or a rare D-share. But if you want to say Tally-B-Quality, if you want to say the quality of the 2002 model, you can't say it's a D-share.

This is Harry Allen, hip-hop activist and media assassin. And now, proper propaganda. Watch it. Let's go.

Yo, we handle it. These brothers are fabulous. Style ladies showing you around travel list. The world's a spittoon from sunlight to moon. Bussing off stage like gunfight saloons. Click.

Pull my mic back, you like that? Journalists, we're journalists too, we can strike back Hardcore reporters with orders from headquarters Behind enemy lines, sidestepping the borders We're press cats, we bring it to you as it happens The streets love my crew for music and rapping

Street commander slash beat expander Here to fight the slander with the proper propaganda What's happening? You got a question then ask it The news is just a TV show, get past it And this from a quiet wartime journalist Headlines, wake up, refuse and resist Like this, like this, like this, like this, it's strong We kick finance, action and scores as four

♪ Politics, new fashion and war reports ♪ ♪ Entertainment, when we come to perform ♪ ♪ Watch, watch ♪ ♪ And the illest weatherman in the business store ♪ ♪ Watch, watch ♪ ♪ Triclops Media, record tape or TV ♪ ♪ Net radio, CD or DVD ♪ ♪ Iriscience ♪ ♪ White rhymes on pecking signs ♪ ♪ This is why Babu is in scratch and keeping time ♪ ♪ Make the people listen, boogie down ♪ ♪ Make the people listen, boogie down ♪ ♪ Make the people listen, boogie down ♪

I think that you could listen, cookie town. Glory! The pen is mightier than the sword, 'cause the pen gives the word, sending swords to war. They twisted it when he poured it mouth, say tongue, it's their political power, comes from the barrel of a gun. The officer meet his fate by 4438. It was a 30D, but that don't need a dirty case. Witnesses against the state for sure. Facts overlooked so the judge could throw the book, perhaps for politicians with something to prove.

In the city where they blew the roof off a moon. Questions when answered lead to more questions. Why'd it take months to remember a confession? The principles are same even without the name. But I still say, M-U-M-I-A. I have to fight. It could easily be me. But just being a thinker to speaking it freely. Although I use my brain before using a fist. Don't push it. Wake up, refuse, and resist.

I make the people listen, boogie town, let me move. I make the people listen, boogie town, let me move. I make the people listen, boogie town, let me move.

I make the people listen. We got finance, action, and scores to score. Politics, new fashion, and war reports. Entertainment, when we come to perform. Watch. And the Hillis weatherman in the biz on the storm. Watch. Tri-flops, media, record tape, or TV. Net, radio, CD, or DVD. I'm for science. I'm for science.

So when you listened to this kind of music, you could clearly feel that they didn't achieve much success or recognition in the mainstream, right? It depends on who you compare it with. How do you define mainstream? If you say 90s is mainstream, then they definitely didn't succeed in 90s. But there are also many people who make mainstream music but they are not very famous, right? So it's...

It's hard to say that you can tell by the level of your knowledge.

-

But I just thought about it, you mentioned BlackPak rapper or underground hiphop, I first felt that Blackstar was very representative, but Blackstar also achieved commercial success, didn't it? Yes, so I said that it is not defined from the perspective of whether the business is successful. You can't define it from this perspective.

Some people say that one of their albums is successful, but the other one is not. It's hard to say. Music style is more specific. Another typical person is the early Kang Ye, the old Kang Ye era. He is the image of the backpack.

He's a backpacker. Lin said he's a book bag baby. Yeah, he's even more mischievous than those people. The image of backpacking rap has been expanded to a large extent. It's been very discussed and famous. It's been a point of entry for everyone to watch backpacking.

Did Kang Ye hate the label? I think he didn't like the label at all. But he didn't have a choice. Because his brother from Rockefeller was too lazy to talk to him. He had no choice but to go with them. So I think this can be extended to... It will be extended later. So from the beginning,

He was using the backpack as a form of rebellion. But I don't think he liked the real thing. He didn't do it, but he just walked with these people.

The people who pushed Lupe and Keith Cuddy were all like that. Keith Cuddy is definitely not a low-class person. He's just a little bit of a nerd. But Lupe is not a low-class person. So these people were successful in the broad sense of the word.

就是他不是地下的局限在那个气质里边的人。 我觉得康也他的那种很不适应, 就是我之前给你们分享过的那一段短的采访, 他就是在零几年,零五年的时候他采访, 就是说,

从小到大生长的那个环境,他也不是街上的人。 他就说我从来都没有摸过一把真枪,所以他街头唱的那些东西又是什么枪杀了,毒品了,这根本就不是我的生活。

I don't think this is what my music should convey. Then he also talked about his father and mother's influence on him. He was a child who often went to church when he was a child. The family's influence. And because his parents are educators. Then he once mentioned an example. He and his father listened to the popular song when he was in the car. He also sang girls' butt.

然后呢,他自己听得挺得意的,然后他爸就不让他听这歌,然后他就很纳闷说,这就是一个非常好听的爱情歌曲,他讲的是 love 呀,然后他爸说这不是真正的爱,这是资本主义社会的黑灯,真的。 就开始跟他讲,讲这些 social issue,讲说是,你现在看到的,你现在接受的这些音乐的商品,这都是商品社会资本主义给你下的套啊,怎么怎么的干上个了。

So, you see, from the moment he became famous, his early status was a bit like what I said before.

You think you have to sing something very righteous in music, or we just have to oppose these materialistic and commercialized content. And then he really lives his life. But I'm such a big guy, I've never touched a real gun. How can I sing like them in the song? There is an extreme contrast example, which is him and 50 Cent. They are completely two types.

So from this aspect, I also understand that when we talked about Little Brother before, we also said that these children who grew up in projects in the east and west coast are different. So the content they sing is different from the street music. And the music that can make them feel related is not these things. They may be more influenced by Della. Then, for example, the early East Coast music. The other group.

From this perspective, I can understand. So I always think that Kanye's image of the backpack is a little bit convincing. It's not just about me being a light height. I want to do this and that. Speaking of Kanye, I would like to add something. In 2021 or 2022, he had a

臭名昭著的四小時的訪談嘛,他在裡面說了跟你剛才引用的完全相反的話,他在那個裡面說,他說他自己內心裡並不是一個 backpacker,他早年只是利用了他身邊的這些 backpacker 來成名。

And he said that I was like a street killer. I was like a killer. I was a hustler. I was like a killer. I was a hustler. I was a hustler. I was a hustler.

都亲眼看见的嘛 他刚出来的时候 形象是怎么样的 你妈是个教授 你第一张专辑叫 College Dropout 你整个早年就是 嘖

完全一个比较标准的 backpacker 这种感觉,然后到了后面是自我否定,比较拧吧。 对,比较拧吧。 他后面我真是觉得是精神上面有一些问题,你说的那个访谈,我一直都是只看了一些个别片段,那么长我一点都不想看。 他是精神上有问题。

I really think the interviews he did earlier were more interesting. For example, in the interview I mentioned earlier, he specifically asked for comments from the Taliban and Qawli. He said that he has no connection to street life. And then the Taliban and Qawli asked him to sing something from his own life and it still sounds cool.

He also specifically queued these two people, thinking that these two people can bring him a lot of influence. Yes, they are a large part of the audience on the road, those who can get the name from their songs. Maybe a lot of listeners listen to those street hustlers, they take guns to do this kind of thing.

Some people may be willing to listen, but some people may be more willing to listen to something that they can bring in. It makes people feel that the singer is a group with me. He is more willing to listen to such music. This is their earliest audience, I think. Yes, I can go further about this matter. In fact, think about it, there were many people like this in the East China Sea.

But after the 1990s, these people disappeared. Basically, they all turned to the underground. So he actually went through a stage like this. During the middle of the 1990s on the east coast, he actually put down a lot of people with a more diverse style. So it includes, for example, Dale.

Souls of Mischief, and this kind of people, or Freestyle Fellowship, there are a lot of these kind of people in the West. So they are actually very low-key between 1994 to 1996, 1997, and then some of the albums they released, they slowly turned into underground styles. This is a group of people, also might be said to be a pack of ten, these people who came out in the 90s, these people who came out in the 90s, plus these people who came out underground in the late 90s,

He was actually mixed up. But this group of people is actually rich in hip-hop content. Otherwise, you think the mainstream people said it was almost the same thing. You may not be the kind of temperament at that time. It's hard for people to release a song for you. Even in the era of Kanye, it was like this. Rocker Fella didn't want to release a song for him at first. Because he didn't fit with everyone. The temperament is not right.

Yes, so many times there is no way to do it. Many people are drawn to the underground. But it is also gradually enriching the diversity of this thing. Let's just say that. I think there is a mainstream commercial hip-hop and relatively underground

可能就是 96,97 左右。 我为什么这么说? 是。 你可能觉得我说的这个理由 有点牵强, 但是我想说两个事儿。 第一个就是, 96,97 年,

After Tupac and Biggie died, people in the music industry started to question why they were using music to hurt themselves. Can only hip-hop sing about violence and beef? We have lost these two great rappers. The loss is heavy. So some people started to think that they were against

歌曲的内容里边要唱这些很暴力很街头式的东西

They were more self-aware, and they were more conscious. This group of people slowly became more aware. They started to reflect on the impact of the 66-97, the two people's death, on the music industry. How big was the impact? Although we haven't experienced it, we can imagine that at that time, we thought... It was a turning point. Yes, do we still have to go on? It was a turning point. Yes, we can sing more deeply in our music.

这个深刻的内容到最后就变得很宽敏了,这个就不说了,但是当时可能是有一部分人意识到了这个问题,还有一个我之前跟老林分享过的其实就是关于立法也和传播产业的发展有一定的影响,就是在当时 97 年的时候他有一个通信的这么一个立法,就是取消了

我并不

I don't know if it's really a decisive factor in the background of that era. But I think there is a certain reason. Maybe before the 90s, this is the Communication Act. Many radio shows before 1996 were actually more local.

It's not limited to a big media company. The radio stations we see now are mostly big media companies. At that time, the commercial sales and the popularity of the songs were mostly based on the number of sales and performances. And also the number of broadcasts and recognition of the radio stations.

-

The music he promoted may be more popular. He made the underground sounds promote some more independent styles, not so popular. These small radio stations are slowly compressed.

Many scholars have mentioned this era. This is my recent discovery. I can't say for sure, but I think it makes sense. It's a coincidence. Some symbolic events happened in 1996 or 1997.

If you talk about underground, the most recognized underground rap album, it might be Dr.Octagon or Company Flow's first album, Funk Crusher Plus, or Funk Crusher EP, but that was too early, and the influence was limited. So it's 96, 97, almost. But actually, I don't think there's a problem with this statement.

I believe the concept of the company didn't come out in 1996 or 1997. It was created in 1995 or 1996. But it was not a brand that everyone could see. It was probably created in 1996 or 1997. That's what people usually say. But I think fans are also thinking about the East China Sea issue.

If you look at the West Coast, the album that Freestyle Fellowship released in 1995-1996 was also basically in line with the definition of the DTR. But no one mentioned it. It's not as important as the so-called East Coast stuff. But it's almost the same. It's all the same period. 1997, no problem. Almost.

I don't think Biggie and Tupac's death will have much of a impact on the story. But they are not far from each other. So I think it's hard to say. But I admit that the fact that they both died doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the story.

But the fact that this thing is being watched has something to do with it. After they died, everyone's attitude changed. So more and more people will pay attention to these things. This should have an impact. I think so. This is too early. When we first heard this,

At that time, the media resources were limited. We came to the Underworld RAP under the term AllMusic.com. At that time, the music media that I could access online was limited. We mainly watched AllMusic. At that time, we used Amazon to access the database.

There's no other database, no Discogs, no RYM. Maybe there is, but no one uses it. Basically, it's all music and Yamashin. So the definition of all music is fine. So it's all based on that. But now the bar is already polluted. I sent it to you two years ago. I see that there are a lot of strange things added to it now. So it's like...

I can only tell you the source of it. But there are some evidences. For example, there were some people who focused on underground rap.

这个讨论的或者是什么卖东西卖盘的网站, ughh.com, 现在还急人了。 就是它上面卖的这些东西也都是这一类的东西, 所以就是说其实你相互有一些印证了, 这种感觉。 但这个词其实说实话我感觉后来好像用的真是不多, 所以就是说可能是一个有时代性的一个词,确实是。

I think that after 2010, the word underground is more like mainstream or commercial. It's more like a state. It's a word that's broad and literal. I've been looking up the origin of backpack rap in the past two days.

uh uh

This was also done since 1995. It was a group of people from Amnesty. So it seems that they were in a relatively close time period. Not a large number, but in different places. It's more open and open. There was a group of people who did something different. Maybe it was all summed up later. At that time, when they did it themselves, they didn't know what it was. Backpack or something. Because many times the labels were added by the people who listened to the song.

Yes, yes, yes. It's classified. Yes, yes, yes. That's right. You said these sources are all right. But I think New York can be mentioned further. Okay. It may be mentioned... This is a more extended statement. I don't know if others think so. I think it can be extended to DITC and Organized Confusion. It's the early 90s. Organized Confusion, I think, is more obvious. Organized Confusion.

Chicken, chick, chick, chick, chicken, come on, come on Watch the rhyme flip that salt tree Just because I wrote a dope rhyme about poultry I bring access to the past and seventies Kiss my ass if you don't wanna remember these

♪♪

♪♪

I love it when the chicken got what shoes got. So chicken, chick, chick, chick, chicken. Come on, come on, chicken, chick, chick, chick, chicken.

其实老林为这期节目他还列了一个表,专门写了一个非常长的文档,我觉得现在他接下来可能就得按照他这个顺序来说了。 我要读了这个文档,不然读了一下。 你可以说,就是因为我觉得我之前也看了一个文章,他也是从 Ultra Magnetic MCs 这开始说的。

这一般就是说,从那块说的话可能主要就是因为是 cookies 对,我对这个有疑问 为什么 ultra magnetic 可以被划分到初代的地下里边

It's mainly because of Coolkiss. The way they express themselves and their music is actually pretty good. It's mainly because of Coolkiss. They have that aura. Do you know how I first heard it? It's very deep. It's very late. It's because De La Soul was very influenced by them. But if you let me listen to it now, I actually think this is the hip-hop of the golden age.

Yes, it's definitely a masterpiece. But the details of the music are still quite rich. It's not the same. But I think their music is not...

the reason why they were mentioned in this category is mainly because of cookies. Because cookies have a lot of separation later. Yes, this is very extended. If you say that the company flow is on the 1.0 generation of the base, Ultra Magnetic may be 0.25 generation. I think it's just such a degree. Basically, it's mainly because cookies are extended.

um

Keep in mind that all instances that follow are fact, are anthem.

Recently, I've seen MCs coming through while I was at home on my couch watching the boob tube fighting like a roughneck just to stay loose as I sat and wrote rhymes on a page like Mother Goose. This was the problem, results of a test. The heart of all wackness lies rooted out west. Right smack dab inside my civilization. The hunt for an MC brings investigation. What I mean is basically there's no one who comes off correct and stands in the sun of

But here comes the change up in trend. The world debut intro to the Sunshine Men. The Sunshine Men.

I don't understand. Let me explain this clearly and plain about the journey of the brothers who missed this train towards sellout. When our profile rhymes go straight out the window, we're not like regular bimbos with sunshine. Just a definition of those in this hot spot who despise the system. One composed of an inferior peer group polluting the airwaves and I got the scoop on radio. It's all about your cash flow. Pay for airplay or you fly solo. Only one brother can come

up off this. Those without talents but big drug profits. Rap becomes a tool often used in vain just like a gun when they want out of the insane lifestyle but they want the insane pay. So they pick up a mic yet they have nothing to say. It's a damn shame cause they formed a pack of those who represent my spot yet they lack the skill to get raw with words and cold shoot them. Stuck in the past putting raps to a drum computer.

Not even worried that the song's not able. Cause they got juice and hookups at big labels. No uniqueness. No goals or dreams. No creativities. Exactly how it seems as a sunshine man. With plans and a pen in my hand. Recording thoughts and beats for the next man.

Even those who live without a clue. I bring the truth to you. It's not new. To help my cause. The rise of inflation. The incline of western civilization. Words to enlighten and to direct. Brought to you live and correct. From Sunshine, man. I understand. I covered the amazing ground.

Some depositions with a few more useful lines.

Why in the world is everyone down with sunshine? None of them from here, but the attitude's clear. They stroll like kings, the big fish in a small stream. Too weak to battle, so they fled the Big Apple. And they moved out west like old settlers. Booty MCs, no rhymes with a swelled head. Aiming to discover an inactive rhyme zone just like Columbus. They called here home.

So they moved in and started a new trend West coast stars made from East coast pollution Native MCs never got the game plan So they grabbed the trumpets and hopped in the band But no, not me, neither I nor D Seeks the shade of the sun And then, yeah So I said, actually, these people in the middle of the 90s In the period of the East and West Coast They actually didn't have much space to do anything Until later, when

到 90 年代后期才又出来了。 但是咱们就接着说纽约的话, 然后刚才阿石说的 Roccus Records, 那个是一个非常重要的, 怎么说,一个 landmark 吧。 我觉得这个公司叫 Roccus, 但是我们以前买盘的我们都叫它 Racus。 所以我有可能一会儿会说成 Racus。 没事,老北京英语啊。

Because you said you were used to it. At that time, no one understood what you said about Rockers. But you said Rakus. Everyone knows what you said. It's a very important brand. It was the first one to be released in 1997. It was probably 1997. Fun Crusher Plus was generally considered the first one. I just said I was a WCG fan. But many people also think that Company Flow was the first one to be released. Because it was a separate company. WCG was a big company. So...

Anyway, so this is the first one. And then there's a series of other very important and classic Lee Chung-bae-like albums. Including the Black Star album, the Most Dive album, and the Pharoah Mount album. Pharoah Mount is a member of Organize Confusion.

And then there are some classic collabs, like Sound Bombing, Lyrical Solange, etc. They are all in the underground, not the underground, but the underground music industry. I think they are the most suitable for entry-level music, because we used to listen to them. The best entry-level music is also the best work.

This is a very important brand. Like Divejax, it may be after 00. That was established by LP after he came out. LP is a member of Company Flow. Now everyone may know him as RenderJuice. But in the early days, he was actually a very angry literary young man.

After Ruckus left, he founded Defjax. And the other group of people, The High and Mighty, founded Eastern Conference. It's a big organization.

东海岸的厂牌。 Company Slow 的第一张,我前两天听了一下, 我觉得还并不是我的菜。

It shouldn't be you. But I really like the story behind Ruckus Records. I told you that Ruckus Records founded two founders. They are two white people and two children with good families. Because he and Little Mordecai were high school classmates. The establishment of this brand was invested by Mordecai.

um

-

It's not necessary. It's not necessary. It's not necessary. And he's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You keep talking. You keep talking. That is to say, these two founders, he is still one of the founders of the media company of his. So you can know that Rocket has actually developed for so many years. Business has also succeeded. You see all his propaganda or something. He doesn't leave one. He doesn't actually say that it's completely in this industry. It's a state of pure underground. He actually wants to put

I'm not familiar with it.

Because WKCL was founded in a campus radio station in Goda, and then it became independent. At that time, I also discussed this radio station. It is very interesting. It was founded in a college in Goda, and it was a university radio station. It was completely independent and had no commercial nature. But there were many

Before he became famous, he was the first rapper to be promoted in WKCL. He was also the first rapper to be promoted in JZ. He was also the first rapper to be promoted in Company Flow and LP. It's very interesting. That's what the university radio station is like. They choose these things. I'm not making fun of you.

她的一些喜好和偏好就完美契合了 曾经豆瓣上的那些装逼文艺青年的那种喜好 我觉得特别好像 就比如说她在那个文章里边 LP 就说他们 Company Flow 这些成员聚在一起的时候 他们并不是说像那种街头孩子一样 那样做音乐的那种类型 然后他们聚在一起会看什么佐都洛夫斯基 他们喜欢菲利普迪克的科幻小说 他们喜欢乔治奥威尔

I think it's quite interesting. It's a very angry and artistic way of thinking. He is a leftist. He likes to do things like the Pingxuan Movement and the Mingxuan Movement.

嗯

这种很花天酒地或者很吃喝嫖 很 flex 很整天拿枪干仗 这种大部分的美国黑人 还是有一个 至少跟歌里面这种刻板印象 相比相对稳定的家庭结构 是该上学上学 然后该找工作找工作 就还是比较贴近 这普通正常老百姓的 可能是有些音乐他给 尤其是不生活在美国的人 会产生一种刻板印象

但我今天听的这个观点来源也是一个, 应该是在美国音乐产业里面做的比较久的一个黑人。 我感觉这个是很有意思的一个观点。 我之前说那个 backpack rap 给人很多共鸣也是从他这里听到的, 就是说做 backpack rap 的这些 rapper 这种形象, 其实更能代表大多数的美国黑人, 就是他是这么认为的。

Yes, there are. The content of street music, including a lot of drugs and murder, is not clear from when it started. I can't find a specific source. But I believe this kind of life does exist. But now I especially dislike the beauty of street music.

这种热门话,街头干仗的文化。 我看之前一个观点也是说,现在很多...

There are some rap songs in each band

成员,然后他们可能会,就可能粉丝也不多,但是在本地有一些粉丝,或者就是有些比较关注自由文化的人会关注他们,他们可能会开直播,在直播上面跟自己那个仇人连线,然后就那边表演性质的,是互相吐垃圾话,就是喷说,你等着,我现在,我现在去干你,我明天就去干你,就约个地方,你说地方哪儿,然后结果,但是这种,

它是得益于现在这种直播平台短视频平台的出现造成了这种情景嘛 但这种情景就会制造制造出更多的现实的真正的这种流血死亡冲突的产生 芝加哥的那两个帮派互相打架那不就是什么有很多惨痛的后果啊

I've said this before, why do I feel more and more disgusted by this kind of content? I'm not denying its authenticity, or saying that I want to stand on the high ground of morality and review your content. But these contents are too beautiful, and there are many consequences. No one can be responsible for it.

但美化也不完全是创作者自己在美化, 我觉得媒体也是起到了很大的这种推波助澜, 就是看热闹不嫌事大的这种作用。

And I read an article before that the grudge between Biggie and Park is not that deep. Of course, Shook Knight is a big idiot. Shook Knight and Biggie are two big idiots. The media in the middle of the fire and the mountain fire caused the grudge between the two people to get deeper and deeper.

Right, in the end, I think the consequences are really painful. That's why I think that Lin and I are probably old enough to listen to the content of living life. Everyone has to live a comfortable life at the end. Just like the example of Qing Shi just mentioned, no one goes to the street every day to do something like this, to give you a date or something like that. Everyone still has to go to work, go to work, go home and cook and bring their children.

I like to listen to some white-collar music. It's not related to my life, but it's cool to listen to. Yes, I was like that too. I think stream music is really cool. Now I also think stream music has become a very... One is that it doesn't change much in music, which makes me feel very tired. And it creates that kind of objective impression, which makes me resist this kind of thing.

And I just want to mention again, although we said before that Merce's article on DX may have some bias, but I think his last metaphor is particularly good. He said that hip-hop is a seed. You buy it in the soil, it will grow. Some of them grow up to the ground, and some of them care about the root of its origin. It will dig deeper and deeper, and the root will grow more and more underground.

其实长在上面的这些也是受到它跟的这些影响。 是。 那只不过是看到你地下的东西得到多少 credit, 你可以被怎么样去认可了。 我觉得这个比喻还是挺好的。

So, this episode is not about criticizing the underground, or bad rap. I think it's because you guys, especially for me, made me realize that I had neglected so much very good music. And now I'm feeling it again. Recently, when you gave me a lesson, I really listened to it. I didn't listen to those before, and I felt it was very good. Thank you very much, Lin. Not bad. Listening to music is comfortable.

Yes, especially I like some old people in the West Coast, especially Dilead People. And Coop. I was very excited when I heard Coop yesterday. It's really awesome. Coop is not typical, but it's good. I also like Dilead People. Now I listen to Dilead People, I don't think they are so low.

I think it's because of the influence of the time and the media. They didn't have more business. But their standards are really high. Of course. I think it's still divided by music style. It's a kind of style. They actually have a lot of... Unless it's a very independent release. Most of the production is pretty good. Including things like RGD2. Actually, you listen to it. It seems to be with you.

概念中的地下也没什么关系,但其实他当时就都是那么算的。 阿石最近也听了不少,你可以分享一下。 努力补课,努力补课。 还又跟赛汤聊了一些他小时候喜欢的是吗? 对了,我其实想添加一个比较有意思的,我观察到的现象,就是好像到了...

这是 2010 之后的很多 rapper 他们会 至少有很多很有名的 rapper 他们是很有意的去将自己和 Backpack 也好 Nerdcore 也好 Conscious 也好 去割清关系的 因为我有查到 Tyler 他可能是在 2010 头几年

它有一个臭名,它当时在推特上面有很多那种 random 的 rant,就是吐槽,一顿乱喷,其中有一个就是 fuck backpack rap, I hate immortal technique,这是,还有一个是 Charlie Scambino 在 2011 年的一个,

In the song, let me see, in the song "My Shine", he said "Fuck Nerdcore, fuck Backpack, fuck Rapcore, make cool rap" I feel like many people have this trend, not just the two of them. Backpack is the label, and then slowly... Maybe it was a bit of a joke before, but then maybe the literal impression of the translation is the translation of the pre-release. The literal impression. Immortal Technique is really funny.

I don't listen to it much. I only know that... You only listen to one song. I only heard that one song about a black kid who killed his mom or something. That's the one. This is probably his most famous song. Yeah, Dance With The Devil. That's the most embarrassing song. Just...

Yes, he was very deliberate. He was also very long back then. So he was like a classical Bach. So he was very popular back then. But I think he was attracted to this kind of music when he was young.

嗯

It's also a kind of "douji ding" in my opinion. Yes, indeed. There's a type of rapper that they really like to talk about stories in a song. This type of rappers are easily divided into the ones who carry bags. First of all, they have a label that feels very nerdy. It's like Childish Gambino is always against it. But I'm telling you, Childish Gambino is very nerdy. It just doesn't want to be carried into the bag.

And Jay Electronica, he's also quite... How to say it? You know what I mean? So back then, his debut era was not popular anymore. So he kept being caught up in the past few years. People started to like this kind of old man who talks very vaguely. He came out again. He was also restricted by time.

I saw Jay-Z in his 2010 self-published book.

He mentioned Talib Kweli and Common, these rappers. He said Talib Kweli and Common are great technical MCs. But there is a difference between technician and songwriter. Technical rap and songwriting are two different things.

-

We listened to the bass and basses at that time because we liked their flow and skills. It's really different.

Yes, and it suits our ears. The flow of the South was not my favorite. But the underground style is close to the East China Sea. It's more traditional and easy to listen to. Why did you say you would kill the school bag between 2007 and 2010?

I was so annoyed when I heard too much about it. The backpack is also a process of deterioration. If you are annoyed by this today, you don't have to be annoyed by the MOST AF or TALIM KARI.

But I think that in that era, most of the Taliw Kali should not be bothered by anyone. In that era, there should be no one bothered by the common. It's just that everyone thought that the common was very annoying. Later, the Taliw Kali was very annoying. But anyway, let's say that in the 00s, maybe after 2003 or 2004, you feel that the creative state of this group has obviously declined. In fact, it is very normal. It's been many years.

Because many people came out after the 1990s. At that time, a new wave of people came out. There are many people who are more beautiful. They also focus on this backpack image. The things they do are too water. They don't have any new things. They are just using this image to say something that doesn't hurt or make you feel itchy. The songs are not very good either.

完全没有任何记忆点的东西,但是听着可能就比较舒服,比较悦耳,然后比较积极,整个态度比较积极,所以就到最后把这个东西整个就冲到了。 有点消费前人搞的这个公众情绪。 没错。 我觉得小孩很喜欢吃这一套,就你刚才说的优美系这一类的。

I think it's okay to listen to only one time. But I'm not saying this because I'm not good at listening to music. I used to listen to a lot of music. I bought a lot of music at that time. I bought it and listened to it a couple of times. I thought it was really bad.

还得找下家再给卖出去,然后再用珍贵的钱再买点能听的。 所以就是这个循环大概经过了一两年吧,就听了太多那种偏优美的偏清新的这种东西的话,就觉得这个东西真是不行了,所以就是在之后也就是特别反感这一类东西了。

-

I hate this. Yes, this is a good quote. It's about "Sticking to myself". I have a bad impression of this label. It's because its audience is too typical. You know? Because I hate this kind of audience. So I will be envious of these artists who create. But if you look back at Mouse Death, I think Mouse Death is also very good.

白天的

I don't want to play with you guys.

I think I'm in a good state now. I'm doing well. He's a very down-to-earth person. It gives people the feeling that I am also creative and I am also rap. I can say something particularly good. But I think my current state of life is the most important. I usually drive a taxi or something. It's good like this. And I don't want my art to become so commercial. Of course, later he still...

This is too sudden. Very sudden.

I'm a strong man, and I'm nervous to see Kun Latifa. I can't speak. I think this person is very real. It's not like the kind of person who is very pretty and self-confident. "I'm the most real one." You know what kind of person I am. And I can't say what it's like abroad. But I can see that this part of the domestic community, once it forms a culture of the community,

It's like those people give people the feeling that what they are chasing after is not music itself. It's actually like what you said, it's a kind of thing that's on the scene. People need a community. People all need their own community. But sometimes the community becomes a bit of a cult. Right, right, right. It's all about getting up. It's all about getting up.

I think we can talk a lot. You've listed so many things. I can't talk about all of them. I'll die talking about them.

Another example is MF Doom. I think this is a good example. I think MF Doom has a lot of fans. This is important. I have to give some opinions about that year. I think Doom was not so popular back then. Everyone knows it's very unique.

And it's also very unique compared to other underground songs. It's not like Rockus or Hieroglyphics. It's very unique. But people generally think that it's too unstable. Plus, it's often used for one beat for a lot of people.

It's like... It's a question of his professionalism. And I remember it was in the '00s. I forgot exactly when it was. There was this thing where he was performing and he found another old man with a mask. Who was that? The comedian. What's his name? There was this... I forgot. I know this thing. Okay. Anyway, he was a pretty fat old man. Pretty funny.

And then that thing came out, which made everyone more skeptical of him. Hannibal Buress. Yes, Hannibal Buress. Anyway, this thing made everyone especially skeptical of his professionalism. So in fact, in the past, I think the average rating was not that high. It's pretty high, too. It's mainly because of the "Made in Ville" one.

It led to this in various fields. In fact, at that time, many people listened to rock music and independent rock music. In fact, they didn't listen to rap music, but slowly they could listen to it through MF Doom. So there was such an era back then. The memory of people is too strong. Although it is a very primitive mask, it is such a simple job, but it may have made a big difference in determination. Yes, that's right.

His stuff is really DIY.

That was a big encouragement for us. We thought, "Wow, you can even do this?" "We should be fine too." Really, really, really. When he was doing poorly, he was really bad. It was basically a step in the right direction. He didn't have any bones, so he just went in. That was fine. That was good. The fans I met at MFDome, the ones who live on MFDome, are all a bit deep-rooted.

Is that so? Right? It's not just my problem. It really is. Sometimes you don't say how much you hate the artist himself. Or you don't say how much you have a problem with his work. It's his followers. That attitude and that strength. It's all giving people a feeling that you're not as good as my father.

-

Sometimes I feel like I'm going against the trend. I'm not really interested in the way people talk or express themselves. But I personally don't have a huge opinion about artists or their works.

Um

I remember the first DDM of Lin's song, many people know that you and Saitao's group is called DDM. But you can tell us about the full version of DDM. It's called The Dick Miners. It was a blind date at that time. Because everyone knows this person. Because there is a group of producers called The Beat Miners. I really don't know this. I only knew this after I met you.

The Beat Miners, yeah. They were originally made by Black Moon, Smith & Wison, and they were part of the Book Camp Click, the Dark Dong family. The first song we made was a song about a songwriting idea. Once, Saito recorded a song I played on my reed recorder at my house. Then he went back to remix it, and we posted it online.

So we were the first group to do a half-singed hip-hop. At that time, we were just making a name for ourselves. We were called Dick Miners. But then we developed into a group that only sang. We didn't change our name. I always knew there was Dick Miners, but I never thought of DDM. I always thought it was two things.

I only found out later. Because everyone thought that the name didn't represent us. It was confusing. So we changed it to DDM. But DDM was often labeled underground.

其实确实是这个可以算是这个风格,但是我们当时做那个音乐的时候其实怎么说呢,就是已经没有那么沉迷于地下这种状态了,我们也不想做那种东西,但是很多影响是潜移默化的嘛,没有办法。

So, many of you... And you said you wouldn't let us do something that was too big. Because we're not that kind of people. Back then, we were very "bH", we were always "BH"ing. So, you said we did things that fit that kind of style. Actually... That's right. We really didn't want to do something like a Black Star album. Or...

The Beat Miners, is there a DJ called Evo?

- Evod. - Evod. I suddenly thought of this person because I listened to RAKUS' first album before recording. - This is the main DJ. - Evod on the main stage. - His album cover is called "Ultimate Underground Hip Hop".

Ultimate Guide. So I think if it's for the underground, it's a more vague style, this combination can actually explain the problem.

And Beat Miner was also very popular in New York. It's not that big now. So I only knew about these things after I met you guys. I used to only listen to the popular ones, so I didn't know. And I also listened to some Blackmore.

Black Moon, yeah, their family is mainly... In the early days, they couldn't be considered... From a musical perspective, you can't be considered underground, right? They could only be considered hardcore. But slowly, they started to play with underground people. Because they are independent, dark-down. Especially the New York circle, they are very concentrated, you know?

So there are many people who used to be in the East and the West, but then slowly turned into the underground style. They all got mixed up. So there is a bit of confusion in this regard. I can understand. Yes. Black... Dark Dawn... Sorry. I think the one wearing the blue team uniform is underground. But if you want to say Black Moon's first one, Smith & Wison's first one, Helter Skelter's first one,

OG City was a typical hardcore rap. But they were very connected to the scene. So DJ Evod gave some of the songs to Sun Bombing. They were part of a big community. But Sun Bombing was really good. He recorded some early songs like Mostap and Talib Khalid. There were no songs in the album. And then...

I think it's more typical. As an underground style, it's more typical. I actually listened to all the rockers' first songs. I listened to Song Bambi 2. This one is actually easier to find. The first song is Eminem. So everyone knows that Eminem was also in that circle. He was in the middle and western circle.

That's right.

For y'all people who think y'all should be on the record list and all that good stuff, you know, that's where you buy records at. I don't know. That's what you do. You just go there and you look and you see what's coming out new on the rock and slave. Word up. And also, now I got to plug this. If you want to catch E-Moodie online, you know what I'm saying, doing the beat monitor thing, it's www.88hiphop.com. Word up.

We play Rockets joints too, so y'all can hear the Rockets flavor there. Rockets is all, you know, I ain't even gonna talk about it. We gonna get to this joint right here. And what I'm gonna do is shut my motherfucking mouth. We gonna get busy. Hey, yo, Fitz, how you doing? Evil D is on the mix. Come on, kick it. ♪♪

Watch me. Evil D is on the mix.

Come on, kick it.

♪♪

word I said flying through the air like a javelin unraveling like a verdict pounding in your chest like a gavel and the highest court in Babylon let's travel on if the world is found you think it foul is how you got to live then from the get your ass was found and foul just is how you is no excuses see life's dilemmas are set up like a mirror just to show you all your faces now your understanding is clearer you had your chance revolution you let it pass you by that's why I'm dissing wacko season till the day that I die reflection getting you high we stand our ground with

♪♪ ♪♪

Thank you.

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

And in the second album, there's J Live. The second album's most famous song is the song "Company Flow" from 1999. I also like the song "Company Flow". I feel more common with "Company Flow". It's a bit weird.

I'm not saying it's weird, I can accept it, but it's just that it doesn't suit my taste. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

It's been over 20 years, 30 years. And you said that Rockus' last fall, LP also said that why he had to independently establish the company Defjax. At that time, he thought Rockus was becoming more and more commercial and mainstream. Or the label's senior director always gave various opinions to his creations, just for sales. He couldn't bear such compromise.

So he established his own brand. I think I sell very well. That's awesome. Is this a good selling?

The amount of media coverage was quite large. In China, there are not so many hip-hop listeners. They know some of the more advanced stuff. You can buy it at the store in Fuxiong. Fantastic Damage, Dead Ring, RGD2, etc.

You can buy it for more than 100 yuan. You just mentioned the question I wanted to ask you. Why do you think it's not the traditional way of listening to hip-hop? It's probably listening to rock music or other types of music. They don't really accept it. For example, we listen to hip-hop music. He would rather accept this kind of underground stuff. This kind of weird stuff.

Because he's not the same. I don't know. Anyway, I think it's weird. You know? Because I saw that there was a kind of these people before. They don't want to give themselves. Think of yourself as a hip-hop listener. And then they just want to prove that their aesthetic taste is very high. They often tell me that I think my favorite hip-hop is not the kind you listen to. I like to play the juice. It led me to this kind of person.

-

因为他本来那个... 对,你跟他们聊音乐,尤其你跟他们聊音乐,聊一些 hip-hop 音乐的时候,他们跟你说的那些东西完全不一样,就导致我一开始很困惑,你知道吗? 是了,尤其你在国内,他接触的这个东西,他没有一个历史的氛围嘛,就是说你可能接触到这些地下的东西和接触到特别主流的东西是同时接触到的。

But some people may prefer to listen to underground music. Some people may prefer to listen to more traditional hip-hop. It's all possible. And it's also related to your background in music. For example, if you listen to electronic music, you may prefer RGD2 or Prefuse73. It's all possible. It's logical. It's hard to say.

Yes, it's hard to say. And there are some things in the old Lin's article that I also find very interesting. For example, the brand you are practicing, Anticon or something. When you practice this brand, you say it's underground, which makes me not very acceptable. Because whether it is that he has set a label for himself, electronic music, or that I listen to it, I also think this is not hip-hop, it is not underground hip-hop. I think they are particularly electronic music.

Some people do. Aliens and DOS are pure electronic. But the core is pretty cool. And I also sent you a DeepPath Dynamics. That's pretty cool too. They do have their own stuff.

That's too biased. That's my personal preference. No one likes that kind of thing. And Anti-Pop. I think it's underground hip-hop. But their brand is Warp, right? Anti-Pop, yes. Later, it was Warp. The first one wasn't. Anti-Pop is more popular. Anti-Pop is not the same. Anti-Pop is mostly black people.

Although he is weird, he is quite dark. So it's not the same. This is the Anti-Power Consortium that I am most grateful to Lao Lin for recommending to me. The first one is really awesome. I must emphasize it.

Gun fetish, suicide, inverse in vitro I make the beat go around like parallelogram shaped algorithm It's the ever ever changing, never the same thing changing Aiming intricate arterial wall, armor piercing arrows Through your spinal, black rhino through your Kevlar Death Star, audio emperor, contemporary composer Serial flows feel like dust, I'm pained Beetle popping the week number six, Rust-oleum dripping from the tooth drain

All city acidic epicenter indicative of the problem I'm the cure A.C. boy, A.B. boy, A.B. boy Act like you know the structure The ever fluctuating waveform suction of a black hole will crush your will Function like ghost in essence in man form I transform the land you stand on to herbous MC's Mr. Freeze, High Priest, the Ice Kings with the nice things

Gun talk, run New York down, here we run lyrics, lyrics Gun talk, run New York down, here we run lyrics

I sketch the infinite, chosen frozen Gift the shit that splits like tits loose in 40 deuce Tips on keeping niggas heber glow in hypertension in the maze for light beam Willy-Milly dollar dream, label lobby scheme Maybe you might probably be gleaned, bust through scenes with a beam Niggas is straight, one time trigger pull A rusty voice, big bad wolf Mimic middle schooler, follow tip, hollow flip

trick seal circus kneel bow for the act drama puff lip quick chip yo I like the wick wonder white owl laugh scowl foul MC in the bow the flash phase rash plays on stage delayed pass like videos pause look what that nigga was wearing gas tearing off a sheet I bam roll through priest to the sun priest done big beast Godzilla foot up a spot like your chin in your girl squad lean men feel forced like you busting off phlegm porno favorite gym oh no in your linen like Yoko

Soloist, bipolar modulating roller-bowler to ya in a flurry like Denver to water A scurry but niggas are still blurry like a bootleg Our nerds can't find their bifocal as my vocals slam local niggas hyped on decks like WWF not connecting Insurrect my Nicene Creed's wait for blessings, I'm Saeed Al

First birth, general, empirical, umbilical, miracle, lyrical, syllable, zero in your ass, fully swapped flask, a gin sip, hot sweaty detectives plant outside my crib as my throat bends your limbs, round it, glow around the stroke, make it earring. You are, you are now hearing the tri-pinnacle crown jewels around fool's eye school. If you ever forget the elephant-sized mastodon, remember you'll never find the visceral force. I'm just as blinding, Iron Man, Pulse Array, emitting neon, freon from a

♪ ♪

Rocking the bell, Paul Beam, Earl Blaze And so you know our Blaze will never be thirsty No mercy, HP for non-believers in the year 4030 AD I like the first one too. I like the one with the three big heads of Warp. There are a few songs in that song that I think are very...

I don't know how they made it. I don't know how these people were influenced by these songs. Yes, so you can see that in 2003, WAP noticed these people. Yes. So in those days, these people were accepted by these companies.

Including Ninja Tune, which was also popular in the 90s. And also in the 00s. So, in fact, the hip-hop industry doesn't accept these people. But the electronic music or other brands accept them. Yes. You can learn. I haven't finished listening to many of the old and new articles. I don't know. I don't know. You can listen to whatever you're interested in. This thing was eventually cut off.

The early generation of people were more and more influenced by the current situation. I think there is a high-level comparison between the East, the Middle East and the West.

East is like New York, with the Rockers, Death Jacks, and some very Boston stuff. And the Midwest is like what Ash mentioned, Rhyme Sayers, Anticon, and some very strange black people. The Midwest is very strange for black people and white people. The black people are more like Mood.

DJ Hightech and Talib Kharli did the work. Moode did 5Ds and Megahertz, like RJD2 and Camtown.

And then there's Seaboo, which we mentioned earlier. There's Hieroglyphics, and then Freestyle Fellowship, including the group of Dalit people. And then there's a group of people called Stone Swirl, including the group called Loot Pack. And then Stone Swirl is quite popular.

Jurassic 5, Aquanum, Blackalicious, DJ Shadow. I think the East is the most technical.

Many things you see today, his singing skills, his accompaniment production skills, including his drum mix, compression, are all the highest in technology. You can't tell the difference between the two. The Chinese and Western music department may be the smallest, the most independent. Basically, it's a few broken drums and a few strange sounds, and then a bunch of people start to say it.

That's how it was. There were also some more emo-like elements in the Chinese and Western departments. Like the atmosphere and ideas. That's how it was. The Chinese and Western departments were also weird.

Even some people like Dieter Lue and Zagat. Even Amy Nam, who was in their series in the early days. They have a group called Scribble Jam. You can check it out. There are many people like Anticon, Manu Nam, and other people who have battled in it. The competition is going to be lost. Yes, it's a kind of battle. Then to the West Coast, there is this kind of

怎么说呢 老前辈 另类说上老前辈 特别顽皮的这种 对 像 Free Style Fellowship 是特别爵士的那种表达 他们其实 Free Style Fellowship 你要我说 他们从 你看爵士的定义 可能相比东岸的那些爵士说上 更爵士 是 他们甚至很多拍子 都是爵士的拍子 你知道吗 觉得不是 hip hop 拍子 这种两拍的 很奇怪 人唱的很多然后就特别 爵士就不光是说彩排对对对 包括他们那个组织

Yes, their life expressions are all very dramatic. And I think one of the characteristics of the West Coast is that they have a lot of large groups, a lot of people. And some groups are actually very fond of the live performance. Like Hyrule or J5, they've been watching it all the time.

And then a lot of people actually got into it. It's like going to a band on the spot. Including a lot of ACL's albums. And then... Who was it? Maliric Spoon. A person who praised them. Basically, they're all in a band. So it's actually very natural. And the kind of technology that's particularly pursued by the East Coast. The kind of progress. The artistic expression is not the same.

So that's the style of the West Coast. The West Coast is more strange. There are a lot of strange things. It's more scattered. The places in New York are more concentrated. New York is the most organized place in terms of production. Yes, that's right. The competition in the industry is too intense. There are a lot of old guys playing with the development.

It's a bit of a challenge.

I actually think that in the Rhyme Series that we just talked about,

I think most of them

比如说 backpack 也好 地下也好 conscious 也好 他跟他相对的主流的商业的东西 很大一个区别就是 social commentary 就是它里面有很多社会评论这么一个因素 我感觉社会评论这个东西 整体在更商业更主流的音乐里面 还是比较少见的 或者说就是比较不赚钱的 对大公司做音乐的来说

So I think this is actually a defining factor. Yes, so many of them have made conscious rap and these... There are many crossroads. It's really like that. Yes. Why is this phenomenon not so obvious after 2010? One is the technology and transmission path we just talked about. That must be the development of the Internet and music production itself. Another is

I don't know about people's consciousness. Because I just thought of it. For example, you said that there are many mainstream social comments about these consciousnesses. We see it now. I think it's mainly related to the number of people who contact things in this generation and the source. Because if we talk about the early back-passers or the lower ones, they are mostly 70s and 80s.

可能都是 80 年代早期的那些人,他们接触东西的来源还是很局限的。 包括你看其实就 10 年代以前的那种黑人音乐人, 他其实还挺容易就是听出来他们以前就接触的都是什么东西的。 他们听的东西,他们见过的东西其实都是...

-

-

The image of the character is more three-dimensional and rich. There are not many elements of the character. These are all very good phenomena. We used to think that black artists are very simple and thin. Although he has a very high achievement, there are few people with rich characters.

-

After listening to a lot of music, I've been influenced by the music of the old days. It also has some changes to my past impressions of underground and backpacking. I still think that the recognition of these artists is not enough.

-

I don't need to be involved in the creator's life. This is a question I asked myself before. Now that I listen to it again, I feel that some of them are really good. Especially in this environment, the new music is so boring. I like the era of the 00s, so I think it inspires me a lot. Keep listening, no problem.

听着舒服。

There was a fake enemy who said I was better than you. I thought it was reasonable at first, but now I don't think so. They didn't say that I was aggressive. I didn't say that I was very clear about my attitude. I didn't say that I was the most real person. I think this is a characteristic of hip-hop.

Yeah, he's actually a... How do I put it? He doesn't have a real enemy. This thing... The beginning of this thing is the beginning of KRS-One, I think. Yeah, you said it again. I really want to complain. Zhen Xiha is a subject matter. It's not like... This thing is a subject matter, you know? It's a creative subject matter. It's not like he really wants...

Right, he didn't really mean to do it. I think that was too much. You know? Like, in the early days, everyone thought he was okay. "I MC X like they don't know." Everyone thought it was awesome. But when he tried to do "Nelly," everyone thought it was too dumb. That's how it was. So I think "Hot" is a creative theme. And these people, you can't say...

它就是说它一方面 它其实是对主流的嘻哈 有一些不满 那我觉得你从反面的角度讲 它们其实是对这个嘻哈艺术 有一定的追求 它是把这个东西的艺术性 看得比较高 然后有的人 他就是真是照着那种艺术做的

So, some of the situations that he presented in the opposite way, he said he would criticize some mainstream things. Yes, cherish him as a topic. This is actually something I've been thinking about for a long time.

嗯,他是,他,对,他就是一大类题材,都是这个,你说地下这些人,他有一部分他说的是像阿石刚才说的那种社会评论的,或者是那个反思题材的,很多人他可能也就是,其实就是那种,怎么说呢?

-

她很典型就是太过于沉迷于黄金年代, 然后总是觉得老的就好,新的不行, 就是这种观点,对吧? 其实我们之前也见过很多这样的人, 无论是受众还是说他们艺术家本人都是这样的。 我又再举回到 Brown Sugar 这电影这个例子, 就是男女主人公,

They think that in 2002, the most amazing song in the history of hip-hop was KLS1's The Bridge Is Over. I think this is very ridiculous. I asked Ash, what is your favorite hip-hop song? I think as long as you can say one, it means you don't listen to a lot. Yes, because there is a problem with this question. It's very...

挺离谱的,不怪。 我最讨厌的一种说法就是,谁是谁是 greatest of all time,最牛逼的 rapper of all time,最牛逼的 of all time。 就是你一旦说出了这种话,第一,说明你听歌量很少,你根本就没听过什么东西,再一个就是你非常固不自封。

There are many good old works in the golden age, but you are always addicted to this kind of music. In fact, I don't think it's a good attitude to enjoy music. This may be the kind of person that Saitama hates. Those people who always scold him. There is a limitation. Everyone has a limitation. There are many short videos on the Internet that people consume this kind of music.

这种就是觉得可能黄金年代最牛逼,现在新出来的小逼都傻逼的这种视频,我那天看了一个,有的在纽约地铁里面,他采访一个那种打扮就很 outside 的一个青年。

然后就问他说你觉得现在嘻哈的问题是什么,然后那个人就很装逼,说 too much rappers, not enough MCs,他说你什么意思呢,他说 Tupac 是个 MC, iSpice 不是 MC, iSpice 是个 rapper,然后说完就特别装逼的看镜头,我倒觉得太傻逼了。 这个说法也得有 20 年了,好像是来自于谁的一个什么歌,我有点忘了。

Speaking of this topic, I actually want to talk about NUTS' "Hip Hop is Dead". Although this album was released in 2006, at that time, it was probably like "Hip Hop is dead", or "Hip Hop is over", or "MOMO is dead". It's a kind of saying. In those days, it seems that you can explain something by saying this kind of thing.

But I think this kind of point of view is completely extreme and very fangirling. You don't see any progress in hip-hop. No matter it's from the scope of the music, the production itself, or the evolution of its aesthetic, you don't see any progress. This kind of point of view has led me to have a lot of opinions about those who insist on true hip-hop.

Nas's lyrics are not that good. I think this kind of song... What really shocked me back then was the "Too Late" by Talib Khalid. There was a part in the middle that said, "Where were you the day when hip-hop died? Is it too early to move? Is it too late to write?" He didn't say that hip-hop really died. He said,

Is it too early to be sad? Or is it too late to follow the trend? It's from this perspective. I think it's much more brilliant than Nas. Nas has a lot of blood. Yes, Nas has a lot of blood. He used a very old beat. That song is very sad.

I think the true hip-hop is actually a reaction that is beyond music. It is a kind of people attracted to the struggle. It is essentially a kind of "dialect to the landlord" kind of feeling. Because I think all the literary works, literary creations, they are really particularly attractive. From ancient times to the present, whether it's hip-hop or the old play, including novels,

两个主线,我觉得一个是这种爱情情色男女之间,一个就是这种斗争,战争,杀人干仗。 我觉得很多时候,它是在方方面面的,在所有领域上,它不一定必须得跟字面上一样,就是说谈恋或者要么杀人干嘛。 很多时候那种斗争是一种非常微妙的,它是就可能一个人,像咱刚刚说的,你说珍希哈,他是一个...

He's not really trying to do anything, he's just giving you a concept, a kind of "I want to go with this bigger machine, I want to go with some imaginary enemies, I want to go with these people who have been poisoned by true hip-hop." He gives people... The cool thing about him, the thing that attracts people to him, I think is in the struggle. Yes. Actually, what we talked about today doesn't feel very...

围着比如说 backpack 这个东西, 我们聊了很多这种考古, 很多这种地下, 包括对这种听歌群体, 都简单触及了一下, 很有意思的一段对话。 主要是我确实很多, 今天这个 topic 上面的这种专辑, 在我的听歌阅历之前, 我刚也说了, 所以我更多也是以一个学生心态,

So

I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of music. I can listen to all kinds of

I hope it will be a good example. Many labels are just a tool to help the audience discover the music and listen to it. So this is a great value of labels. Before recording, I was really going to point out some shortcomings in this episode. But I listened to it later.

That's fine. So this is still... During this time, I also thought a lot about the course. Including sometimes I started to argue with Lao Lin on how to define underground. Or I used to have a lot of objective impressions on certain labels. I also thought a lot during this time. I just feel that listening to music can't be too...

太端着。就是你能享受就享受,也别觉得自己是一个什么 gatekeeper。 就是我说 gatekeeper 就是那些维护真嘻哈那一类的,只听老的黄金年代那种人啊。 你觉得大家也不要有这种心态。 但是呢,很多时候我就觉得,哎,虽然我之前想指出不足是由于某一类特定的群体, 我觉得他们特别装逼,但是有的时候吧,我跟老弟聊天, 我还真就发现就是说,从创作者这个角度来说,

I really want to create something that is different from others. I want to do something for myself. I love doing this. That's why I do this. I have this aesthetic. As a listener, it's not good to treat this as an evaluation standard. If you can understand what he says, then you can enjoy it. If you can't understand, then you can just pull it down and stop listening. Yes, it's good. It's comfortable.

I'm curious, when Wang was creating the EP, did you have a theme? Talk about your own creation. The whole EP has no unified theme. The inspiration for the EP is a friend of ours in Brisbane.

This netizen is someone I met in the past few years when my life was not going well. And when I was mentally unstable, he provided some spiritual support and entertainment. We had a very good time and he is a very important friend of mine. And I met this netizen when I introduced him to Bao.

But the song in this EP is more casual and enjoyable. There is no specific theme. If you are interested, you can listen to it. There are various songs related to life, including those unrelated to life.

I feel that Bao has been learning to drive recently. Now he's even starting a new album. It's called "Driving to..." This one... The two of them are driving. Who drew this? Bao Jiang drew it himself. He's so talented. It's very cute. I said, "Why didn't you draw the driver?"

Yeah, because he's been driving a lot lately. He's a little bit addicted. Maybe. He told me before that he doesn't like driving. Yeah, he didn't have a chance to drive before. Now he's been driving a few times and he keeps telling me to drive. Driving is really comfortable. It's really funny.

Welcome to our channel. Thank you. We are going to talk about the topics we have been discussing recently. And also some music. Thank you very much for A Shi. Thank you for inviting us.

Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo,

♪♪ ♪♪

Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo,

Watch as it expands and your face turns red.

♪♪ ♪♪

Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo,

You didn't know that. You didn't know that. You didn't know that. You didn't know that.

Make me look every way, now surround me. Break your sound up into rhyme colonies. Reproduce and reduce the economy. Fill your ear with self-sight psychology. A new world planned with spirituality. On the roadside, life, enough casualties. Mind and body, soul whole mathematically. Grab the microphone, rock on emphatically. We prove youth into MC Academy. Bring you truth in these lies and these fantasies. Common sense until all y'all, the man is me. Even older than you.

You didn't know that though

You didn't know that, though. You didn't know that, though.