UK School System #355
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This is Rock and Roll English. Real people, real English. Here's your host, Martin Johnston. Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Rock and Roll English, episode number 355, let's call it, even though we did have episode 354 twice. So yes, here we are for episode 355, a day late. Apologies for being late today.

In the eight years that Rock and Roll English has been a thing, I have only missed a deadline.

probably about three times. One time was when I got married. This time was because I was supposed to record on Sunday evening and then I just fell asleep when I put my children to bed. So probably a sign of age. However, that's only half true because I was also supposed to record with another member of the Rock and Roll English team. But

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to. So at the kind of last minute, I had to try and put a podcast together. And I kind of thought about what to do. And there were a few children at my house. So I thought, you know what, I'm going to interview the children. And then I kind of developed a new angle, which is I'm

asking them about school in the UK okay because I thought instead of me telling you about it I can get people that actually go to school to tell you about it now two of the people you will hear on this podcast are my children now both of my children go to preschool which is what we have in the UK the same as nursery really which I believe in America they called kindergarten it's an

Not the best American accent in the world there, but that's what they call it. The school before school. OK, so both of my children go to preschool. So you hear from both of them. You will also hear from another girl, my daughter's friend, who is in reception, which is the first year of school. So she is five because in the UK school, proper school starts at

at four. And then you will also hear from my niece, who is 12. OK, and my objective of this podcast is just to make people think, because the other day in a Facebook live in the Rock and Roll English family, we were talking about school and school in the UK and it

Got me thinking, yes, it is different. And school in general, not just in the UK, I have been thinking about recently thinking, is this the best way to educate children? Because my daughter will be starting school in September. So in this podcast, I just want to raise a few questions because obviously I don't have the answers. I don't know what the perfect answer is.

school system is. But we are going to look at different things and I'm just going to ask questions and see what you think. OK, so yes. OK, we're going to start with my daughter, OK, who is four and a bit. I like that term four and a bit. She's not four and a half. She's four and a few months. So four and a bit.

And as I mentioned, she will be starting what we call big school, because when you don't go to preschool or nursery anymore, we like to call this big school to make the children feel very important. OK, now she will be going to the school I went to.

actually, and they are quite strict, OK, strict about uniforms and what you can and can't wear, because in the UK, even at four, all children wear uniforms. Now, my daughter, like most, I think, four year old girls, likes colourful things. She likes unicorns. She likes rainbows.

She likes princesses. She likes all of that stuff. However, when she goes to big school, she will not be able to wear colourful things because that is not allowed. So here is me trying to talk to her about the fact that she will not be able to wear colourful hair clips. I'll just play you parts of the conversation and you will hear me kind of interrupt with a running commentary. Let's see how this goes. I can wear always a different clip.

Yeah, but I don't think you can wear colourful ones. Can you see this one here? This is one of yours, isn't it? This has got a rainbow on. You won't be able to wear that to school. I really like it. One thing I'll just say here is notice how she says, but I really like it. So she doesn't say, but I really like it. She says, but I really like it. So she has already developed the glottal stop.

four years old. Now, I have thought about trying to correct that, but my kind of thinking is, well, I do it all the time and it

It's not really right if I correct her, but I keep doing it. She's obviously learned that from me. So that's just one thing I wanted to highlight, how common that glottal stop is. But anyway, we continue the conversation, but notice how she just cannot get into her head that she will not be able to wear her colourful rainbow hair clip. I really like it. But that's too colourful. You can only wear black and grey ones.

But I would like to wear a purple one. But you're not allowed, so what are you going to do? I don't like black or grey. As you can see, she's not quite getting it. So the teacher will say you're not allowed purple ones. So what are you going to say to the teacher? If you go with a purple one, the teacher will say you're not allowed that. So what are you going to say? That I like blue, purple and pink.

Yeah, still not quite understanding it. But the teacher will say, but you're not allowed that. So you need to take it off. So what are you going to say? Have a grey or black one and I will be sad. Don't need to cry.

So we actually had to stop the recording because she actually started crying. As you can hear from the recording, I was laughing. But the first question, should kids wear uniforms? Should four-year-olds have this creativity advantage?

Stifled out of them. Stifled is a good word. In this situation, it kind of means to prevent something being expressed. So my daughter's creativity will be prevented from being expressed because...

the creativity maybe is being stifled out of her. No rainbow hair clips. However, at the same time, on the other side, it has been shown in the UK that schools with stricter uniform rules perform better. So what is best? I don't know. Remember, I don't have the answers. I'm just here to ask a few questions. But shortly after the crying stopped, I asked if she was happy to go to big school. Are you happy to go to big school? Yes. Yeah, why?

I can learn so many things. As you can see by her voice, she was still a bit upset, but happy to learn many things. So I was thinking she was going to tell me about all of the wonderful things she can learn, how to read, write, do mathematics. So let's see what she wants to learn. Like what? What do you want to learn? I like learning to jump so high, but...

I need trampolines to do that. So, if you didn't get that, she said she likes learning how to jump really high, but she needs trampolines to do that. So...

she might be in for a bit of a shock when she actually goes to big school. But anyway, as mentioned, school starts with preschool or nursery, which is not obligatory here in the UK. In fact, I do believe even the first year of school is not obligatory. You can send your child at five, although absolutely no one does because they'll be quite far behind. So we also send our two year old son to preschool. He only does

Not many hours at all a week. But the reason we are sending him is because his older sister goes there and he can kind of get used to it whilst she is there. So let's see how he is getting on. What about nursery? Do you like nursery? No. Why not? Because mommy and daddy.

so as you can see he says he doesn't like nursery now i think like lots of people when you have to send your children to nursery is really difficult when you see them crying and stuff like that because obviously they don't want to go as my son said there he wants to stay with his mummy and daddy and it is really difficult because

Your instinct as a parent says, I want to stay with them. But at the same time, you know, it's good for them because they socialize. But again, something I see on social media is, is it right that these other people raise our children because we send them at such a young age to these places like nursery? Is that right?

Is there another choice? I don't know. Also in the UK, if you go full time at nursery, okay, that costs like £1,200 a month minimum. Okay. So imagine you have two children at nursery, that will be £2,400 a month just to send two children to nursery. So is it right that parents go to work at

and work their arses off just so they can pay for someone else to raise their children? I don't know. Again, I'm not here with any answers. I'm just opening the discussion, let's say. But how much does my son really hate nursery? Let's see in this little clip. Do you cry at nursery? No. No, because you're a big boy? Yeah. Yeah? I cry just a little bit. Just a little bit you cried? Yeah.

So as you hopefully heard, he only cries a little bit, he says. In fact, he actually used the past very well. He said, I cried just a little bit. So maybe it is good for him. Who knows? So now we are going to move on to my niece, who is 12 years old. The last time she was on the public podcast, because she has done a few R&R family episodes, I believe that she was only five. And this is what we spoke about.

Did you just do a poo-poo? Yes. Well, did you call it a number? Three. And why number three? Because when you do a number three, it's a wee and a wee and a poo. So two wees? Yes, and one poo. Now this time we have a bit of a serious conversation because she's 12 now. She'll be 13 later this year. So obviously we are not talking about doing wees and poos anymore.

So I thought I would ask her some questions about school, about how much homework she gets, subjects she likes, etc, etc. So let's talk about subjects first, of what subjects she enjoys. And you'll also notice I'm a bit surprised by her answer. So I really like drama. Okay. Is that a subject? Do you do that? Yeah, we do do drama as a subject. Didn't exist in my time. But drama is a real, like it's a full subject? Yeah.

Like maths. Yeah. So she likes drama. Now, that's obviously a good thing. I was obviously quite shocked by that because I've still got the mentality of 20 years ago when I went to school and the idea of doing drama at school as a proper subject.

Yeah, just doesn't register in my mind. But that's obviously a bad thing. Or is it? Maybe people say no, but we shouldn't do those subjects. For example, I never studied philosophy at school. That didn't exist in my school. I would have liked to have studied that. But at the same time, we can't study everything. So what should we study? I don't really know. Should the children be able to choose what to study? Is that possible? No.

I don't really know. So now this is when I asked her what subjects she doesn't like. I do not really like science or French or German. You study French and German? Yep. I did German this week and then last week I did French. It changes. So you do one week of French and the next week of German? Yeah, it's a bit complicated.

Now, she must take after her uncle because I also didn't like science. I didn't study German, but I studied French and I didn't really like it. Now, I find it strange that she studies French one week and German the next because, again, studying one hour of French every two weeks and one hour of German every two weeks, what really are you actually going to get from that? But at the same time, should we say you don't study any languages?

I had the choice. I don't know if this is still possible. When you got to 14, you could choose subjects of what you wanted to study. Not all of them. You had to study like maths and science and English, but you could choose some. And one of the things you could choose was a language. And I decided to drop

the language, which was French. So I didn't study it anymore because I was doing like one hour of French a week. I wasn't really seeing any progress. So I thought, you know, this is a waste of time, which to be honest, I still think it is if it's only an hour a week. But then should you study five hours a week? I don't know. For example, how much English did you study at school? Was it useful? I don't know. But what about homework? Because I know

certainly in Italy that students get a lot of homework. So how much homework does someone in the UK get? And also how does it work these days? Okay, so let's have a listen. And you get a lot of homework.

Well, we have always Sparks Maths. So Sparks Maths is a website online. And... Who checks that you're doing this? It's all linked to the teachers. So the teachers can see that you've done it. Okay. It's... You get compulsory, so you have to do it. And then there's, like, other options where you don't have to do them. You get optional homework? Well, like, it's extra homework. So you have to do the compulsory. And then if you want to, like, revise more, you can do the extra. Do you do that? No. No.

So all online these days, obviously that is different from when I went to school and optional homework. That does sound strange, doesn't it? But then I asked her how much homework she has to do every day. And she said some days she gets none, some days she gets some. So then I asked her just to give like an average of every day. Like half an hour every. 30 minutes, like a spread across the week. Yeah. Yeah.

So 30 minutes a day, five days a week as an average, because some days she doesn't get any, some days she might get a bit more. Now, again, is that too little? Is that too much?

I don't know. But how long is a school day? Because I know in different countries, school starts and finishes at different times. So let's see my niece, what time she starts and finishes. So my school starts at 8.35. You need to be in form. So that's like when you get signed in. And

and it ends at 3.15. So 8.35 until 3.15. And she also told me you get a 15 minute break in the morning and then a 45 minute break at lunchtime. Now when I went to school, it was an hour. Now it's 45 minutes. Is that right? Because I know in some countries you don't get any breaks, lunch breaks. I mean, you just go home for lunch because school finishes at like 1.30. So

So is it right to have school until gone three o'clock or is it better to have a lunch break? I don't know. And speaking of lunch breaks, what do they eat? What do children in the UK eat at school at lunchtime? The UK obviously being famous for not great food. So let's see what people eat. So first of all, I asked my daughter's friend who is a little bit older than her, who is five and she goes to school. So let's see what she said.

And what about at school? What do you eat? I could eat a hot dog. You eat a hot dog? And an hamburger or some healthy food. Right, what is healthy food?

Healthy foods could be broccoli, carrots. So as she said, there are things like hot dogs, which I think we know aren't really great for you, but there are healthy options. But again, is it right to have the unhealthy things there? Because if you leave it to the children to decide, I would imagine they are going to choose the hot dog instead of the broccoli.

the broccoli. But anyway, I also asked my niece about this in her school, how it works, and this is what she said. Oh, and by the way, we do get slightly interrupted here. You'll see why. So they do different things depending on the day. So if I wanted to have like school dinners one day of the week, I would decide a day where I like food. Just like, for example, today they do like cheeseburgers and

sausage rolls and then they always have little pizza slices other days they'll do like chips fish and chips all stuff like that and then they have pots of pasta bread rolls all in packets do they ever have any healthy food there is no fire by the way it went off the other day at two o'clock in the morning

So, yeah, do they do any healthy food? Yeah, they have, like, they have pots of fruit. And they do have a few bits of healthy food, but not lots. But no one ever chooses that, right? No. Exactly.

So, yes, she pretty much confirmed what I thought. Now, when I went to school, I don't even think there were healthy options. But I think they've kind of put them now to say, you know, we offer healthy things as well. But if you leave it to the kids, who is going to choose the healthy option? Is that right? Should the unhealthy things be there? I don't know. But obviously you need to pay for school dinners and snacks.

I don't actually know because I don't send my children to school yet, but I imagine if they have school dinners every day, it can add up and probably will be quite expensive. So there are other options where you can send your child to school with lunch. We call it a packed lunch. And at least this way you can have some control over what your child is eating. So here is my niece talking about her packed lunch and where and when she eats it. I normally bring my own lunch.

We just sit, I guess, sit with some friends. We sit on the field. We just eat our lunch.

So sitting on the field with her friends, eating her lunch sounds lovely, doesn't it? Especially when the weather's nice. I doubt she does that in January. And lunchtime is a great time to play with friends, as we will hear here again from my daughter's friend. Yeah, what do you do at school? I play with my friends. How many friends do you have? A hundred. You've got a hundred friends. Whoa.

Now, I think she might have been exaggerating, but I think it demonstrates that lunchtime and playing with friends is a great time. However, for other children, that may be the time where they get bullied. So should we have lunch times? I don't know. How does it work in your country? But now going back to uniforms, because I'm

As we've already mentioned in the UK, starting from four years old, children wear school uniforms. So I asked my niece if she would like to not wear school uniform because she is 12 now. So she has been in the system like eight years. So let's see what she said.

I find it will be a bit annoying having to choose an outfit for every day. And then I wouldn't want to have to wear the same outfit. Yeah. Because I feel like people might laugh at you or say that it wasn't good enough. So wearing uniform then. It's easy. Yeah. Now, I agree with her on one side. I think that's totally right. It's easier. There maybe is less bullying because certainly when I went to school, there was still some kind of bullying. But...

As we spoke about earlier, does that stifle creativity? I don't know. Because I must admit, it is a bit depressing. And when I was in school, especially in the winter months, seeing everyone in their black school uniform. Yeah, it was a bit depressing. But what is best, uniform or no uniform? I don't know. Now, one thing I think about school is...

You kind of just memorise facts. Certainly how when I went to school, you kind of memorise facts and you have to kind of regurgitate the facts for a test. And then you just forget about all of those things. So I always felt like when I was in school, I was just there to pass tests. But one thing I think is to try and give people like the love for learning. That would be a much more important thing. And my niece mentioned one thing which I didn't

think may help with that this was when she was telling me about the books she has to take to school so let's hear what she said we need dear time books so reading books what books sorry dear time they call it dear time so dear stands for drop everything and read

Now, I liked the idea of this, of just drop everything and read a book, something you're interested in, something you learn about. But I did ask a few more questions to see if it had to be connected to the subject you were studying or it could just be anything. Well, sometimes our history teacher makes us read the history books and then other teachers let you read your own books. So I could have read a book about football. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

So is that a good thing to do? Is it a waste of time? Dear books, drop everything and read. Now, I don't think they do that in every school in the UK. I'm not sure. I'm sure schools in the UK all do different things. But is that a good idea? I don't know. Is it teaching people the love for learning or is it just a waste of time?

As usual, I don't know. But what about phones? Because this is a big thing now. Now, towards the end of school, phones were a thing when I was there. And I used to maybe use my phone at lunchtime. I'm talking when I was like aged like 16 to 18. But let's see what the deal is with phones now, because phones are a much bigger thing. For example, my niece is only 12 and she has a phone. So let's see what she says about phones.

No, you're not allowed any phones at all. In the whole day? Yep, no phones. If you're caught with your phone. Even at lunchtime? Yeah, if you're caught with your phone, well, you can have it on you, but there's a rule where it says not seen, not heard, never heard.

Well, what's the point in taking it then? Well, I take it so then when I'm on my way home and on my way to school and stuff like that. So it definitely makes sense to take it so she can text her mum. She said that she cycles to school to say, I've arrived, but you cannot use it at all during the school day. Again, good thing, bad thing, who knows?

So another thing in the UK is we have sets. OK, so if you're very good at maths, for example, you'll be in set one. If you're very bad, I don't know how many sets there are now. When I was in school, there were about six sets.

seven or eight I can't remember the same for English the same for science and for all of these lessons you will move around you may have maths with me but you may have science with the Hellraiser for example whilst I know in Italy for example they stay in the same classroom with the same students for every subject even in secondary school so let's see what my niece says about this in the subjects we're setting it's spread across the year so for maths I'm with different people in different forms and

Same for English. But would you like to be in the same class with the same people all day or do you prefer moving? I prefer moving.

So she prefers moving around from into different classes with different people, which I must admit, I would prefer as well. That's what I did. And if I had the choice, that is what I would prefer. But does it help? I don't know. Is it right to put people in sets to say you're not very good at maths? You're in set six. I'm in set one. I don't know. Does that happen in your country? I don't know.

And then I asked my niece about assemblies, because when I was in school, in secondary school, there was assembly after assembly where everyone is just standing there in silence. And you have to listen to teachers talk. And it was really, really boring. And we used to have head teacher assembly where the head teacher used to enter. We all had to stand up. And he was also wearing a cape like Batman.

So I was interested to see if this still happens because my niece goes to the same secondary school as I went to. So let's see. Does he wear a cape? Because when I went to school, the headteacher wore a cape. No, he doesn't wear a cape. It's kind of funny. And when he walks in the room...

Do you have to stand up? Well, we're normally already standing up because you have to sing and then he walks in singing. You have to sing? Yeah. He walks in singing? Yeah. Singing what? Whatever song we have to sing. So she told me they will be singing a hymn, like a church song, and then he walks in also singing. But I was a bit more curious to see something else. Does he dance? No. No.

So it does seem a bit more relaxed in comparison when I went to school. But again, what is right? Was it right I had to stand up when the headteacher entered like he was some kind of god? Maybe it is right for children to learn to respect their elders, to show a bit of deference, a bit of respect. Or maybe it's absolutely not right. What did you do when you were at school? What do you think? Do you think it was a good idea or no?

So I also asked my niece about behavioral things and she spoke about detentions, how you can get a lunchtime detention where they don't let you go out at lunch or an after school detention where you have to stay after school for one hour. When I was at school, we had to do jobs like taking the chewing gum off the bottom of the desks. I didn't actually ask my niece if that's what they do now.

But again, is it right for detentions to exist? Because I know they don't exist in other countries. I don't know. But anyway, I'm sure you're probably getting bored of me saying I don't know. So I asked my niece if there's anything she would like to change about school. And this is what she said.

I feel like it would be more like so you get a choice when like, because they don't let, like they say no big earrings, no makeup, no bracelets, no necklaces, none of that. So they could like, with us wearing uniform, we get a bit more chance to express our own selves by like having like little things that express you almost. A bit more leeway. Yeah.

So a bit more leeway, so a bit more lenient with the rules, so not so strict with the rules. Now, she goes to the school that I went to where they are particularly strict with these uniform rules. Not every school in the UK is so strict. But again, the schools with the stricter uniforms are the schools that perform better. So is it a good thing? I don't know. But one final comment, I asked her if she actually enjoys school. Because in my memory, looking back, I

I didn't really enjoy secondary school that much, especially when I was the age my niece is now. You know, starting those teenage years, it wasn't particularly great. I did enjoy it later when I got to about 16, 16, 17, 18. But let's see what she says.

So overall, you like school? Yeah. Yeah? Yeah, I like school. So if she likes school, then I suppose what the hell have I just been talking about? It's good. So if it's not broke, why fix it? But anyway, I thought I would just open a discussion up about school. We will discuss this in the Rock and Roll English family at our chit chat on Saturday. I hope you enjoyed the episode and maybe learned something new. I will talk to you very soon, people. But in the meantime, just keep on...

Thanks so much for listening to Rock and Roll English. For more great content and to stay up to date, visit rockandrollenglish.com and facebook.com slash rockandrollenglish. We'll catch you next time.