#108 - The Memorablia Economy: Why Some Can’t Stop Dreaming of the 90s
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Hello everyone, I am with LJ, editor of the World of Chinese magazine, which commissions Middle Earth. Hi Aladdin. So LJ, what are the exclusive stories that you guys have worked on this issue 104? We focus on how urban Chinese residents are reconnecting with nature. So they are lacking nature now? Absolutely. They discovered that there is a serious lack of nature education among urban kids right now. It has a negative impact on them, but there is also a strong effort to change the situation.

In a related story, we explored how a well-designed zoo in Nanjing has attracted large group of followers and how it has inspired them to care more about nature and wildlife.

And so in this issue, what are the other articles? Yeah, we also took a cruise ship down the Yangtze River, traced the history of game consoles in China, and uncovered why Hunan Cuisine in particular is taking China by storm right now. So dear listeners, if you want to know more and support the podcast, go to theworldofchinese.com and order your latest copy.

Hi everyone and welcome to Middle Earth, your source for insight into China cultural industry.

Listen to those who are making a living by creating and distributing art or content into the world's second biggest cultural market. I'm your host Aladin Fahre, founder of China Compass Production. If you need a location scouting for your next project in China, film translation service, or find a co-producer, you should reach out. Also, if you are a Chinese speaker and you don't mind my broken Chinese, don't hesitate to check my Bilibili channel Aladin Chou Dianing, link in the podcast description. Nostalgia is a powerful tool that can trigger people's purchasing habits.

For instance, according to civicscience.com, over half of the US adults were most likely to make a purchase when the product evoked nostalgia for the past. And today, especially as China's GDP growth is not double-digit anymore and the past seems more appealing, consumers have more choices regarding stories and products that are a throwback to the past.

For example, according to the 2023 GD Leisure food consumption trend insight whitepaper, the sales of nostalgic childhood pastries increased more than 70%. A lot of physical shops are tapping into that trend, and to my knowledge, a similar aspect has slowly started in China regarding movies,

such as the film Gua Gua Gua or TV show Fan Hua, directed by legendary director Wong Kar-wai that explored Shanghai in the 90s. And there are a lot of KOL on Douyin and Kuaishou that are cosplaying also this period, in the 90s and 2000s. They are making small stories, making jokes, or also sharing some products. For example, you could follow Hanyu Xia Magbu or Huajou Puze that each have 2 million fans.

So if the golden age for Western countries could be the 1950s, it seems that for China such time of prosperity was in the 90s and early 2000s. I'm sure everyone of you knows that. It was a time when everyone could pull up their sleeve and make a better life for themselves. Those were the times with epic stories such as Jack Ma starting Alibaba.

That being said, I also want to acknowledge that in such quote-unquote golden age, not everyone surely had the same opportunities. I'm sure that someone coming from a minority group in the western country would have had less opportunities. So today, to talk about that trend in China, we have three experts. So

So first, Yaling Jiang, who is a Chinese consumer expert. Hi everyone, my name is Yaling. I was born and raised in China and recently just moved to London but still traveling between London and China. I currently run a research-focused consultancy called Aperture China and also run a newsletter called Following the Yuan that is focused on

Chinese consumers. And before my career pivot, I was a full-time journalist covering China business and consumers. Next to you on the chat box, but also in China, Hao Yue, a film producer. Pretty much, I followed my curiosity of film

When I first started working, I started working in China Film Group Corporation. So from importation and then I went to study in the States about film theory and film research. Then I came back to do film production. So pretty much I went from downstream to all the way up to the production part.

And I think the reason I'm interested in doing this podcast is Aladin mentioned this trend of nostalgia. And so I think it's pretty interesting to link to other aspects of cultural industry to really look back and back and forth, even the future, you know, where this leads to. I'm looking forward to sharing all the opinions with you all. Thank you. And last guest, a special guest.

Chu Dandan, former manager at the World of Chinese Magazine. She's a seasoned journalist, but also someone who has actually a lot of interesting personal memories and texts on today's topic. Hey, hey. I'm the former publisher of the World of Chinese Magazine. I'm a publisher. I work in the print industry.

magazine industry for 20 years. Yes, I'm interested in this topic because I really saw these nostalgia thieves shops in the street, but I'm not sure if they are profitable. Maybe Yaling is the expert. I'm not sure. I'm curious about this business.

So today we'll mainly talk about a brief overview of how much everyone is FOMOing that China golden age time and how capitalism is levering this. And as usual, we'll finish this panel conversation with a podcast quiz where one of our guests will win a prize. Also, we are releasing this episode as the World of Chinese Magazine second issue of the year 2025 is about nostalgia. There are a lot more articles that keep on expanding this fascinating topic. More information on the podcast show notes.

I think it would be a good idea for us all to define what vintage or memorabilia mean to us. And I just want to make sure maybe the audience know, like there are so many definitions. Yeah, I fully agree with you, Yaling. I think that before talking about the actual topic of how business meets people crave for all the time. Yeah, I think we could have a sense of what it was like to live in that golden age in the first place.

I don't know, Dandan, do you want to say something? When you asked about golden age, you talked about the golden age in China. I call back to my childhood during 1990s China is the first urbanization happened. The immigrations rushed to South cities for new jobs or businesses.

big changes happen every day. We call it "xia hai", which means "go into the sea". This phrase indicates bravery, opportunities and treasures. My father is one of them. He is the early constructor of Shenzhen. At that time, Shenzhen is a city less than 10 years old. There's only one big street in the city, Shennan Zhonglu.

but I saw the city fast booming from zero. The constructions coming out like magic. Three days a mile for a road, three days a floor for a building. So that experience really impression a lot for me. I'm shocked at that time seeing the city fast booming. The first McDonald in China opened in Shenzhen in 1990.

in that year. My cousin took me there having a lunch in 1991. We spent 38 yuan for that lunch. Whoa. Yeah, that is almost half of my mother's monthly salary.

That's my first time having a hamburger. We call it western food. Actually, I didn't have a hamburger. My cousin and I shared one because it's too expensive. In that trip to Shenzhen, many firsts happened to me. My first airplane trip, first mobile phone called "Dage Da", electric rice cooker, even first

escalator i saw escalator for the first time before that i i know only elevator so for a child and at that at that time i'm 10 years old yeah so what a gold year the 1990 is so when i grew up when i call back to that year i would say that's

amazing. That makes me excited and I always think of the generation like my father. They contribute a new city from zero. They are fighting. They are excited every day working hard. That always makes me touched for that year. So when I saw the movies like the

early years of Gai Du Kai Fang opening up, I will feel exciting and I will not relate that days with booming treasure, good life,

but with fighting and hard-working days. So it seems that back then people felt that if they were pulling up their sleeves, they could make it, correct? Yeah, I feel all that millions of people

Working hard so we got that fast speed development of the whole city and the whole China. That is my memory about that age. Well, Dandan, that's truly fascinating stories. I wish I could have been there to see this.

Now turning to you, Yaoling. Before this recording, during our pre-interview, you mentioned how the TV show Fan Hua that happened in the 90s actually opened some gates in your family history. Oh yeah, I was in Shanghai at the moment when Fan Hua became really popular and also had a book.

on my bookshelf over here and whenever I had friends from outside of Shanghai coming to town I would always take them to Huanghe Road where Fan Hua's story supposedly happened so for those who are not familiar with the storylines about the export business it featured two or three main characters

And it happened when China first started opening up to the world. So that was a huge, I think, golden timing for the export business. And I watched Fan Hua with my mom almost for every episode because I thought it was a good bonding time for us. There weren't so many shows that we could enjoy as people from two generations. It was so funny that whenever...

I think a deal was made in the show. My mom would always turn to me and tell me like what happened in her days. I think it also brought up a lot of her memories and the conclusion is always the same. The conclusion was always,

what we experienced, your generation would never have the same experience because we totally missed the time. I think for her generation in the 90s, she was an English teacher at a vocational school. It was assigned to her after she graduated from a teacher's college. But on the side, she was also managing a grocery store.

which was quite typical for people who were working at Danwei because they need to make extra money and I also remember that during Fanhua she would tell me about she and my dad's real estate investment like what kind of properties were available around us we were in the south of Jiangsu province so back

Then they will eye in properties not just in our city, but also in Suzhou and Shanghai. Even outside of Fanghua, at our dinner tables, one of the most common topics when they think about the past is how much they missed out. My dad would always regret it, not getting married.

more Shanghai properties. Oh, okay, we don't have any Shanghai properties. But he would always regret not going there and buy more houses. I think that may be very particular for that generation. And for our generation, we were born or we grew up knowing that we cannot afford housing in China. And now, as people say, the crisis is happening. Although there is stimulus, we are thinking of housing

not just as investment, we think of them as places we want to live in but still it's really hard for our generation to afford them so I think while watching Fan Hua with my mom that really showed it was like a perfect, perfectly encapsulated her sentiment about the past

It's that fear of missing out, but very nostalgic about just making a better life for herself and for our family. Wow, such a heartwarming story about how the nostalgia is completely linked to how I could have made more money back then. But yeah, okay, that's good to know. In fact, there are lots of different movies show the different aspects of that years.

It is sad to be golden age, but I think that maybe not for every private person. It's a turbulent transition from planned economy to open market. It's not smoothly. In this big country, urban and rural people, coastal and inland people, north people and south people, they experience different things.

quite different. I'm lucky I lived in a south coastal city and I went to Shenzhen to see the big development of the new city. So in my memory, it's a golden memory. It's good days. But some of my friends, they lived in the northeast of China and they

suffered at that time. Now I'm turning to you, Yaling. So you're one of the greatest experts on Chinese consumer on the English Internet. Could you give us like a case study of how some brands are maybe using nostalgia to attract consumers? Yes, sure. There's a brand I recently came across called Red Star Forward Milk and Bread Store.

This brand, you can basically just see it as a bread store and it was first originated in Beijing in 2022. But just over the past months, it opened its first store outside Beijing in Shanghai. When you go into the store, I think one of the first things you notice is how big the red star is. It reminds you of the Hongqi branding, which is very patriotic and

I think what, like the best thing that it does with that type of branding is that it doesn't just speak to a younger generation in China.

It doesn't just speak to the millennials and Gen Zs who are affected by the Guo Chao trend. They also speak to an older generation, like people maybe like in my mom's generation who grew up in the Cultural Revolution or who are older because they remember what China was like when they had to eat at these communism canteens. And they, I think, would feel very...

nostalgic walking inside the store and filling your own bottle of milk and pick up your own brand with some of these elements around and also propagandas around the store. So it speaks to a mass audience across different generations. I think that's where it did the best. So you talking about those theme items, I think

I think it's quite different from the real vintage pieces. When I saw these toys and merchandise in the shop, I think it's different from my memory. Giving an example that the only merchandise I bought from these nostalgia themed shops is a kind of big white enamel cup.

the Tang Si Bei, the big white enamel cup with slogan on it. We used it when I was a child. We drink with it, we eat with it, we cook with it, but it's easily, yes, everyone use it with slogan on it. 好好干活, long long chairman Mao, like that. Although I bought one to keep that memory, but I think it's far from the

real vintage pieces. that's my feeling. I even asked myself that talking about nostalgia restaurants, I often imagine that will I take my son to the McDonald's 30 years ago I ate for the first time?

Maybe for me, that first McDonald's is a nostalgia restaurant for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you should do it. Okay.

Okay, moving on. Now to talk about movie this time. Hao-Yue, sorry, you've been a little bit taking a backseat during this conversation. But as the film industry professional, could you talk about some movies of the past year that are also trying to make a buck out of that time period? Yeah, for sure. You know, from that Jia Ling's last film about her and her mother and, you know,

I think that's a big call. After that, even more nostalgic films pop out. I think Han Han's films about his parents, a lot of these nostalgic films. For me, I feel the most important reason is because film audiences are getting old.

Even 10 years ago, maybe before COVID-19, a lot of people still feel Chinese films' audiences mainly target between 15 to 25, that kind of age range.

But after COVID, somehow, I guess because of these short videos or streaming videos, all this kind of compete audiences with film. So film become too serious. Film audiences age range like increased 10 years. So now like average rate is age is from 25 to 35.

So, you know, when the audiences get old, I guess film content have to give a lot of, you know, attention to this kind of nostalgic content to, you

keep them interested. So definitely nostalgia can be profitable and also it can be something like unite, connect people. For example, I remember during our pre-interview, you mentioned one movie that was regarding kind of a child story.

And in your opinion, that movie could have happened in 2024, but the way they put it in the 90s was kind of a way to push the parents to go see that movie. The story just could have made as much sense in 2024, could even have been cheaper to produce because then if you do something 30 years ago, you have to, you know, I think it's more work on the production design and things like that, but they still went for it because it was kind of a marketing strategy. Yes, I think that film's called Zhu

Something like that. You guys can check it out. It's a kids' film. I remember that boy, the main protagonist is a young boy, I think a third grade boy called Zhu Tong. And then

he has all this kind of fantasies of, you know, how he wanna, you know, play mischievous things on teachers, on classmates, on parents. He's like cowardly, you know, wanna avoid troubles, all this. But then somehow he even just

get into deeper troubles. So he has all kinds of fantasies to solve the problems and get attention of girls or parents' stuff. I mean, the production quality is really good, but after a while you get kind of

eh, you know, a bit like drowsy. So that's maybe one bad example of doing films in nostalgic way because you know, you feel kind of like too nostalgic, so like self-nostalgic, you know, almost like self-emolving. So after a while, you kind of like get bored a bit. So I don't know, Yaling, Dandan, do you have any feedback? Do you have any opinion regarding those movies tapping into the nostalgia aspect?

It's not the real history. Most of the time, I think, most of the movies show the beauty of that age, some part of that age, but not all. They seldom show the hardness of the contributing years.

construction years. Yeah, it shows that in that age, making money is very easy, but it's not. Well, the first point I want to make is that when we look at these movies, whether it's from Jialin or Han Han, who portray their childhood and early days from the personal angle, and the

films like Wang Kai Wai's Blossoms, there is a huge distinction because for directors like Han Han and Jia Ling, they're portraying from the personal experience. No matter how old they are, no matter whether nostalgia marketing is trending, they always want to tell their stories. So I don't necessarily think that they are intentionally tapping into this trend. But for TV series like Blossoms, we

we can see where they get their money from. Blossoms literally was funded or partially funded by the Shanghai government. It's either the directors of production team go to the government and ask for funding or it's the other way around. So when we look at nostalgia in China's context, we cannot forget how much cultural content and how much we are seeing on TV and film is state-driven.

It could directly come from a propaganda order from the State Administration of Film and TV

Or the production teams have to fulfill certain needs when they make proposals so that they can get enough funding. So I think we do need to address that factor when we compare these productions. Yeah, sure. Of course. And yeah, I remember I was at the Shanghai Film Festival and there was a panel regarding like a Shanghai bank project.

And they actually had an expert explaining how they themselves, like they co-founded the Fanhua, like how they worked on it. So that was pretty impressive to see that like such a big institution were backing this TV series. It's not just like, you know, the TV channel. Because for those who wouldn't know, like basically in China, like TV channel and platform, they don't have most of the money. The people who do have the money are the local governments. They are the one who, you know, back up like a project. Of course, we have an episode podcast about that.

that I forgot the number but it will be on the podcast link description we're reaching the end of the podcast I'm wondering regarding this whole nostalgia trend and maybe you know bets like marketing bet and capitalism bet that people will buy those kind of things like do you guys have like some kind of last word regarding this like like a key factor a key a key thing that you think the the listener should know about yeah

I think the nostalgia in China is very different from how a Western or English audience think about nostalgia. When we think about nostalgia or memorabilia in a Chinese context, currently we are seeing a lot of formats, including grocery stores that resemble themselves as those in the 80s or 90s. We are seeing food halls.

as like probably under like B1 of those shopping malls where people go in and they see a lot of vintage bikes and TV. They also see local establishments that have already been demolished. We are also seeing newer concepts like the bread and milk store I just mentioned, I think founded by new entrepreneurs

trying to tap into this trend to speak to your mass audience. So we are seeing a lot of these formats. But why is China so different? I think there are two main categories of nostalgia in terms of branding and marketing. One is like the Red Star forward milk and bread store I mentioned, where people whereas for China was still developing

through a collectivism lens, probably in Cultural Revolution or in the in a few years afterward, before the 90s, before everyone's goal is to improve their personal economy, also national economy before that period, people who have deep communism roots, they feel like they're

personal goals are bind with national goals. I think that was one phase. That's why we're seeing all these design elements like the communism canteens and also play-offs of old factories like the cotton factory that I saw in Zhengzhou recently

that's reused and repurposed as part of the food hall decoration. And I think there's also another representation of this kind of nostalgia for the 90s and for the 2000s, where people felt super hopeful about their future. Every tomorrow is better than yesterday, because no matter what they do, they are looking for something

and wealth and personal gain that can benefit their family. I think that's the wider nostalgia that China is feeling right now, because no matter whether you were born in 50s or 60s or whether you are millennials and Gen Zs, we all had those few years to look back to.

and where China's economy was better. Regarding this, I would put the link in the podcast description. There is a good article regarding this topic on the World of Chinese magazine, which is the beverage company that made China richest man. And that was the story of Chinese billionaire Zong Qinghou, who founded the brand Wahaha. And when he passed away, there was like a huge flashback to that time when, you know, the kind of a...

someone could go on and start a big company. But as kind of a last minute question, a last question, do you have anything you would like to share regarding the trend of nostalgia and the way people make money with it? I guess, Hao Yue, you can start. I think the way people use nostalgia to make money is not something new. In our current time, it might be how new media to help spread nostalgia.

ideas of nostalgia and find this kind of virtual community and how to people get more self-absorbed you know I will also put a link in the podcast description but then yeah there is a couple of accounts on Douyin like Huajopuzi or

Anyo Siamaibu, which is like basically those short video content where it's like stories of people happening in the 80s. They really do going a lot of throwback at that. And I guess you can go and then later you can go buy the stuff that they do showcase like small snacks from back in the days. So it's really like a case of like storytelling with selling stuff at the same time. So that's quite interesting.

I think this trend will keep on. I agree with Yaling that every generation has their own memory about good old days. My parents like the 1940s, 1960s movies, the revolutionary years. My generation like the 1990s, like Fan Hua.

these kind of movies and my son had theirs. Maybe it's 2,000 years for them. It's a good memory. So I think this trend will go on. All right. Well, thank you guys for sharing all of that, all of the stories regarding China past and maybe still a way of making more money in the future. And now we're going to end this conversation with my favorite part of the show, the quiz, and where we'll see who is the most knowledgeable among our guests.

Haoyue, unfortunately, had to run off like she had another event she had to attend to. But at least we have two contestants who are still left with us. So the rules are simple. I will ask you guys a few questions. If you know the answer, you first buzz in with your name. Each correct answer will give you a point and the person with the most points win the quiz.

And the winner of the quiz will receive the latest issue of the World of Chinese magazine. Okay, maybe Dandan doesn't really care about winning the latest issue of the World of Chinese magazine, but at least it is for you. I care. Well, okay, you care to win the quiz at least. We'll have one more copy for you. All right, so question number one. Let's go back in history a little bit.

So reform and opening, Gaige Kaifeng, started in the late 70s. Yet there were over 20,000 Chinese government officials that were sent to study a new form of governance and re-implement those at home. And they went to a country to learn this. Can you tell me what is the name of that country? Yaling, Russia. No, they didn't go to Russia. Late 70s, early 80s. Dandan, UK. No, they didn't go to UK either. It's an Asian country. Japan. Japan.

No. North Korea. Neither. Okay, you guys don't know. And again, I don't want to make this like a list of countries. No, it was Singapore. Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, I know, right? Totally makes sense. Anyway. So question number two, let's play guess the number.

In 2002, can you guess roughly how many stores had the brand Tong Nian Huadiao? Can you tell me how many stores they had all over China? So Yaling, you start. You just pick a number and the closest to it will win. 5,000. Okay, 5,000. How much do you think, Dandan? 50. Well, Dandan, you win that point because the answer is actually 500. Okay.

I can send you the link. Okay, I will send you the link so that you can check. So question number three, let's play guess the number again for another China box office. So in 2021, can you tell me what was the box office for Ni Hao Li Huan Ying, which really destroyed the box office during Chinese New Year? I guess it's 2 billion.

2 billion in Suzhou. How much do you think is it in Beijing? I think it's 20 billion. Okay, well, the answer is 5.4 billion. So, well, that means it is a draw. Congratulations on both of you. And yeah, I

Well, I will still send each of you a World of Chinese magazine to your doorstep. Thank you. On that note, we'll wrap up the show. Glad, dear listeners, to have you until the end. I guess you like the show. And if you do, you can help the Middle Earth podcast to grow by recommending us to your friends or send us guests. We're always looking for them. Let me remind you, in case you have not realized, that Middle Earth is part of TWC, the World of Chinese Podcast Network. If you want to know more behind the headlines, go to theworldofchinese.com and order your latest copy.

Also, if you are impressed by this show guest and need to find an interviewee for the next documentary piece or use a researcher in China, you can give us a call. Today's episode was produced and edited by Aladin Fahre. Additional research by Mu. Music by Sean Calvo. And distributed by the World of Chinese Podcast Network. Hope to see you next time. Bye-bye.

Looks like our listeners are still doing their dishes. We're really committed to their workout. For sure. Since we're still here, if you want to learn more about Chinese society, culture, and language, you should head to theworldofchinese.com and follow us on WeChat, TikTok, and Instagram, where you'll discover an impressive collection of award-winning in-depth stories and fun, informative videos, as well as amazing podcasts. Of course. Well, until the next issue then.