(Bonus) Exploring new trends in China's film industry with independent producer Annie Song (produced by Inside the China Room)
47:53 Share

Hello everyone, I am with LJ, editor of the World of Chinese magazine, which commissions Middle Earth. Hi Aladdin. So LJ, what are the exclusive stories that you guys have worked on this issue 104? We focus on how urban Chinese residents are reconnecting with nature. So they are lacking nature now? Absolutely. They discovered that there is a serious lack of nature education among urban kids right now. It has a negative impact on them, but there is also a strong effort to change the situation.

In a related story, we explored how a well-designed zoo in Nanjing has attracted large group of followers and how it has inspired them to care more about nature and wildlife.

And so in this issue, what are the other articles? Yeah, we also took a cruise ship down the Yangtze River, traced the history of game consoles in China, and uncovered why Hunan cuisine in particular is taking China by storm right now. So dear listeners, if you want to know more and support the podcast, go to theworldofchinese.com and order your latest copy.

Back in 2015, when you go to a film market, you can't just give them a short treatment of the story. And then they will decide, "Okay, I will invest you and I will give you the money." But gradually through this eight years, it will see, oh, they want more, they want the completed script, or they want to see if this director is promising, so they want to see the previous work of the director.

But now they wanted to see, "I will give you some money to show me how this film is gonna look like." So that's why I think the Golden Rooster, they changed it because they realized as well. So they want to give the young filmmakers more chance and more opportunity to show themselves, to show that they are promising.

I don't know if you know, but a lot of actually American films, the blockbusters, their visual effects are actually made in China. The Chinese visual effects company, they have covered a lot of Hollywood movies.

In general, like the big box office area is the third and fourth because people there, they have to happen to go to the movie theater even more than the like Beijing or Shanghai because everyone is really busy in Beijing and Shanghai. If they decide to go to the film, they need to calculate their time and need to plan it very well. Traveling is also the call.

But in smaller towns and cities, it's normal for people to walk. I don't know what to do. I just go to the living area. Their lives pass slower, so it's workable for them.

Welcome to Inside the China Room, your premier destination for insights into Chinese car events. I'm your host Jiang Jiang. I'm now in Xiamen, a vibrant coastal city located in East China's Fujian Province with fantastic scenic views, also the hosting city of this year's China Golden Rooster and Hunger Flowers Film Festivals.

This Saturday, the Chinese equivalent of the American Academy Awards, the esteemed Golden Rooster Award, will be announced right here. Today we are joined by Annie Song, a young Chinese filmmaker who will share her views on China's film festivals and the development of the Chinese film industry with us.

Annie Song is an art director at Lingxiao Wenhua Jungle Vision, a Beijing-based startup dedicated to curating independent film festivals in China. Annie received her bachelor's degree in film studies from the University of California, Berkeley, and has been in the film industry for over eight years. She recently won the Most Promising Filmmaker Award at the Busan International Film Festival.

Hi, Annie. Welcome to Inside the China Room. Hi, Zhang Zhang. Hello, everyone. Annie, I'm very happy to have you on my show. I know you have been involved in numerous film venture projects, attended various festivals in China, and worked on some low-budget independent films. Could you tell us more about yourself, including why you chose to return to China to pursue a career in film sector after graduating in the U.S.? I imagine it hasn't been an easy path, has it?

I'm a filmmaker, producer, and also film festival curator based in Beijing.

I come back to China in 2015 after I graduated from Berkeley. And I also traveled to South Korea for half a year. I'm majoring in film studies, actually, at Eston. I never thought I would be working in the film industry because my dad works in car business. My mom just stays at home. So it's really hard for a Chinese family to support a kid to study film.

I thought I would do something in business or in engineering. But when I first went to the United States, I found the first class I attended was a film study class. It blew my mind. It's not something I usually thought about film. Because in our generation, film is like you go on a date and then you will go to the movie theater. It's nothing about like you don't see it as a culture or something very important. But through that class, I learned a

a lot about American culture, not so Italian culture. So the entire immigration thing was through that class I learned. So I got really interested into film. I chose my major as a film study. When the time comes to clear the major, still after I graduated, I never thought I would be in film business because none of my family knows anything about film.

But I had a friend who was studying Beijing Film Academy as a cinematographer and I visited him during the summer while I went back. And I feel like, okay, I still think I need to do film because it's something I'm really passionate about. So I went into the film business, but not in a mainstream way, but in an independent way.

way because I don't know if you know about Berkeley. It's like pretty habituated and a lot of movement there. So Wei tends to do things in an independent way instead of going to the mainstream because I don't feel that fits me as well. But yeah, as you said, it's hard to come back to China to do a film, but it's also hard to do film business in

Hollywood because, you know, as a Chinese, you're international students and you have no connection. It's hard. So that's why I decided to come back instead of staying there. So through these years, I have been producing a lot of films with directors who have the same background with me because a lot of students, they go abroad and they study films and then come back. They want to make the movie. That's how I fit into the film business.

How do you think your learning experience in the US, I don't know if you have ever interned in the film sector in the US, but how do you describe the contribution of the help? What do you learn from experience in the US help what you were doing right now in China? Because film study is very different from film production. Film study is more like a cultural study, interdisciplinary study.

So I actually didn't have a lot of hands-on production experience while I was in the United States. I need to do a class. But besides of class, a lot of us classmates together make a lot of student films together. I think what the United States has helped me in film business is that we do everything by ourselves. It's not like commercial. You have like

thousands or hundreds of people all set. But because of my experience there, when we do independent films, there's a lot of way to do by ourselves. Maybe like one person will sit in for like several roles and we do a lot of jobs at the same time, but it's workable and it's fun. So you just mentioned that you actually cooperated with people that with like minds or with similar background as yours. So how would you describe the characteristics of the young filmmakers in China nowadays?

It's actually very interesting. I think when I come back in 2015, the film industry was going up. It's very good at that time. A lot of our films and independent films were showing in the movie theaters and they got great box office there. But after that, everything was done due to a lot of reasons. So the young generations actually have a lot of passion for

And they learn the best knowledge about films in different countries, not only US, but also in Europe. They have very good aesthetics, but they don't have a lot of chance. The thing is what they do, what they see as a film is very different from mainstream Chinese blockbusters and also commercials. And also the students who usually went aboard to study their family background and their economic backgrounds are very different from the actual

audience in China. So there's a gap in between that what they do, what they like might doesn't feed into the market. That's the problem right now. But other than that, they're really good and they're really passionate about what they're doing. And then they're trying to do a lot of innovations and the creativities in their work.

Just while we were on the way to this venue where we were recording this, we were talking about like, because I'm not that familiar with the venture projects or the fundraising process of the independent films or big films in China. And I know that you have attended film festivals multiple times in China. It's not your first time to attend this Golden Rooster Festival, right? It's not your first time? No.

Yeah. So what do you think that such type of festivals can help young filmmakers like you? And what's your main goal of attending this year's film festival in Xiamen? Actually, the Golden Rooster Field Festival has changed a lot as well. Before, everyone thought it's a really official festival.

that it doesn't relate to the young filmmakers. But since I first time attend the Golden Rooster, I think it's in 2022. Yes. It's already been supported a lot of the young filmmakers in different ways. The first time I attend is because of the film market. So as I described to you that they have this part of the film festival is only for the

investors and also the filmmakers then the filmmakers will get on the stage to pitch their project and then the other investors and the people from the production companies they will sit as an audience to listen to their pitch and they will make the reservation for them to have one-on-one meetings to discuss further about the contents and also the business things and now this time

Mountain is also in the same part of the film festival, but it's a very different and new thing than they started last year. It's that they will select the projects which they have been included in the markets for previous years, and they will choose five of the films to give them a grant and to make a trailer or teaser about this film.

So this year I'm coming here with a teaser along with four other films. And this is really... So the film you bring here is already, I mean, it's already finished, right? Yeah, but it's not the film is finished. It's only the teasers. Oh, the teasers. So basically they will give you a bunch of money for you to make like a 16-minute film. So you can show the investors again. Because nowadays, you know, the economy is really not good. So...

When the production companies and the investors do make a choice, they will be more cautious about which projects they choose. So they want to see more about it. Like back in 2015, when you go to a film market, you can't just give them a short treatment of the story. And then they will decide, OK, I will invest you and I will give you the money. But gradually through this eight years, it will see, oh, they want more. They want the completed script or they want to see if this director is promising. So they want to see the previous work of the director.

but now they wanted to see okay I will give you some money to you know show me how this film is going to look like I want to see more they're more cautious yeah give you the money I think the Golden Rooster they changed it because they realized as well so they want to give the young filmmakers more chance and more opportunity to show themselves uh

to show that they are promised. So who is behind these golden rules to facilitate the Chinese government or it's like the film association? I'm just wondering like who coordinates, who organizes all this stuff? I think mainly it's the Chinese Film Bureau. Right here.

and also government from Xiamen. Yeah, they are the two main. And also they have a big investor, I think it's the Guomao Kungfu. Yeah, they are the big sponsor of this film festival. The film we made is sponsored by Guomao. So you kind of feel that the government, or as you just mentioned, I believe the film bureau is like part of the government. They have a strong intention to support young filmmakers, and they know their difficulties.

is my understanding, right? They want great market opportunities for you guys. Yeah, I think this related to a while the topic you wanted to talk about that the box office actually not growing, right? Yeah, this summer I think the box office declined 44% compared to

Yeah, so they want more films to boost the box office. So they're giving a lot of opportunities for the young filmmakers. So do they have a stronger desire or their efforts even stronger than before? I think so. I think not only the government, but also the production company as well. Because before, they think they have sort of formula they can use to produce films. Just like Hollywood, they have this Bible rule.

book and then you just follow the procedure you write the story and it's not gonna make a mistake and it will earn money but now they realize this doesn't really work so they need something new they're trying to find a lot of new things and we see this kind of films through these years like The Journey to the West I don't know if you read Joe Tassel's Mianjie Bu it's a very good example oh it's like from from this festival or it's like from such type of new ways the new ways are from this festival oh

Well, it's exactly the executive producer's son. So he's very mainstream, but he produced a film that is totally different from his style. It made a great impact in not only the industry, but also in the audience. They love it.

So I think they see this kind of things is happening. So not only the government, but also the production company and all the filmmakers, they want to see something new to show the audience. Just want to make sure our listeners understand. I haven't watched the movie you just mentioned. The English name is called The West. Journey to the West. But I know it's about some editors. Yeah. Right? I read about the content of that, but I haven't watched that. But it sounds like it's not that like a mainstream style.

It's not at all. It's not at all. It's basically an editor of astronomy agency. He believes he can reach out to the aliens. And he believes there's aliens. So the journey is for them to find the aliens. Do you define it as a science fiction film? It's not. It's not. It's not creative. No, it's not. Well, you can categorize it in a sci-fi film, but it's pretty realistic.

So, it's low budget. Yeah. Well, it sells well in China. And you just mentioned about the traditional sectors or traditional way of doing it is like face some challenges. Because I also talked to some other film fans or film sectors, insiders. They also mentioned about some similar things is also happening in the US. That's the traditional, like maybe the Hollywood type of stuff. Some people are also tired of that.

But on the other hand, there are some independent or small films. Their imagination is not being restricted by that type of traditional or Hollywood style, but they can generate more scenes, which can actually, sometimes they receive good response from the market. So I feel like there is a similar trend.

Actually, I was about to ask you that is the way that people doing like using the film festivals to help young filmmakers to get money through finance. Is that like the logic or the way to operate this is almost the same as you observe in the US? Yeah, it's actually worldwide. I think just as you said that the American blockbuster is not working.

not only in China, but also not in US. But also, you know, I also work as a jury for Beijing International Film Festival and the Hainan Island International Film Festival. So I watch a lot of films from other countries as well. You can see that a lot of things are very similar.

not only commercial films were similar in a way, but also the art films are similar in a way. So when something is very distinctive and creative, it just stands out there. So in different film festivals, like I have been to a lot of other international film festivals as well, they have a similar thing. Actually, this kind of marketing, like pitching thing is starting from the other international film festival. Hong Kong, it's

Our country, they have done it for a long time. Like Hong Kong Financial Forum, they have a huge market there and they have been starting that for a long time. And also Busan and also Berlin they also have and Canada, a lot of

film festival they have this part so you're saying the Chinese mainland is actually learning from yes yes because well I came back 2015 there's not much that kind of market but now it's like everywhere all the film festivals they want a part of a market oh okay yeah

So the opportunity has raised a lot. And as you mentioned, the United States, I think the good example is like A24. I don't know if we have ever heard the production company called A24. No, not really. They are exactly what you mentioned, that

They are doing a lot of films, even sometimes strange. It's not mystery at all, but they receive a lot of compliments about the film. And also their films are really low budget, like comparatively to other films. So they make money. Sounds like they are more agile. Like they can try something.

Even if they fail, it's okay. Yeah. They can test it very quickly compared to the big film producers in companies. Exactly. So the film they do nowadays, they started as a startup as well doing small films, but now they have built into a great brand. They are making a lot of good films that very different styles.

But the young generations, they loved it. I see. So let's talk about the, like the, we just mentioned about like the Chinese film sectors. I mean, we definitely see that the Chinese film sector faced some challenges in recent years. What has been the biggest highlight in the development of the Chinese film industry in recent years, in your opinion? Is it about like the technology used in the films? Like we see many more like science fiction films like supported by some new technologies made,

made me feel that we are kind of close to the Hollywood movies. What was your observation of these film sectors, of Chinese film sectors? Generally, what came to your mind first when we talked about the highlights in recent years? I know it's a really hard question, but like, follow what you said. I think

The technology is not a problem right now. I think technology-wise, we're the same as the West. Oh, you guys are on the same level? Yes. Okay. Because I don't know if you know, but a lot of actually American films, the blockbusters, their visual effects are actually made in China.

Oh, I don't know about that. Yeah, because the Chinese companies from Chimpor. Oh, okay. So they actually, they will, for like visual effects, they will divide it into like different sections and then they will have different companies to do it. Actually, the Chinese visual effect company, they have covered a lot of Hollywood movies. So,

In terms of the technology, I think we're the same. We can also see that through like 流浪丢球. The Wendery Earth. Yeah. You can see from that film, it looks like a very expensive, well, it's actually very expensive. So technology-wise, I think there's no difference. But why sometimes we see the, like some Chinese films, when we see the visual effects, we feel it's kind of jerky or something like that.

I think one is because of the cost and the other is because of the art directors. So they will have the art directors of the visual effect and they will control the aesthetics and the quality of it. So that person is more important. It's not the people who are doing the work. They can all do the work. So it's about the allocation of resources. Yeah. I think it's money, but also the aesthetics of people who are actually in charge of the visuals. Okay. Okay.

You know, you just mentioned about the woman in earth. I think in recent years, we kind of see multiple films of the similar topics appearing in succession. Like I just mentioned about like science fiction films, we see many science fiction films in Chinese movie theaters. And also, I also see like the new mainstream films

It's sometimes about like some important battles in history, like for the founding of the PRC, something like that. Yeah. So what do you think the next popular theme in Chinese film market will be? And how do you think? I think that it's also, it's a normal thing, right? I mean, in the US, sometimes in one year, two year, you will see some similar topics being made again and again. Maybe it's a kind of a response to the market.

Right? I don't know. This question is really hard as well, but I can tell is that I think before the, you mentioned the food delivery film. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I won't talk about it later. I mean, before that film comes out, I think all the production companies thought, well,

The good mainstream thing about films is talking about social issues. So I have been talking with a lot of production companies when they're trying to select different scripts. They also want some social topic. They really want to find some

moving, touching, twisted social issues and then turns it into a film. And they think that could relate to the audience a lot. That's why that film comes out. So just to make the listener understand, we just mentioned about 逆行人生, I think.

The English name of the film is... It's about food delivery workers, right? Because nowadays there are many more food delivery workers in China. And it was directed by Xu Jun, right? Yes. Well, a very famous director about, like, you know, normal people's lives with difficulties. Like many people... Like working class. Working class, right? Yeah.

We actually call that a new working groups. The movie is kind of controversial among some netizens because people have different opinions about that. So do you think that is a success? How do you see that? I don't think anyone thinks that film is a success in the film industry. But it's touched the things that you just mentioned. Yeah. The investors want to see, right? Because they thought

That's something that could relate to the audience, especially, you know, the distribution companies like Maoyan or Taopiaoqiao. They're having huge data, right? They're collecting data from all over the world. I pretty much believe that they have done the research before and they think this is going to be a big hit because so many people are working in this hardship life.

And they think they will relate it to themselves. But the thing is, it turned out that the audience doesn't buy it. They think, oh, like, should you? You never do a food delivery. And all, even the actors in that film, it's like, they make a lot of money, right? So the audience, it's not only talking about the film. They're actually talking about something about the film, like making the film. So they think, you don't understand us because you have never experienced us. And why are you making a movie about us to us?

to pay for it. So that's how you cannot predict how the audience is going to think after it. Well, my opinion is that is one of the highlights of the film sector in recent years, especially in this year, as the example that we call it, the opinions from the public about the film is more and more important. Do you agree with that? Yeah. Maybe that is going to influence the process of making next films for these investors. Yeah. Because they have to consider, like you just mentioned, it's complicated. It's hard to predict.

But sometimes it might generate some negative impact on the movie. Yeah. Before, I think Malian was trying to produce a lot of films because they were confident they have this data. So they want to know what the audience like because there are many examples before, right? But in my opinion, like film is something really hard to predict as in terms of the market because

Film is something that people, everyone watch and they will have different reaction to it based on everyone's background and maybe the mood and even the venue. So a lot of things is going to affect how the people react to the film. That's something you cannot predict. And nowadays, I think some of the production companies, they start to realize that. So I recently, I heard some chief officers from different film production companies. They're giving a speech saying that they don't trust that anymore.

They're trying to break through it. They think the old way of predicting things doesn't work in terms of how the market reflects to it. So they're trying to think that the content itself is more important than the formula and then the data. So they're trying to focus more on the content itself instead of the other thing. I see.

On the other hand, another interesting trend is that it seems that in recent years, we are seeing some classic movies being re-released in Chinese film theaters, like especially some Western films like Harry Potter or The Leon, The Professional, 这个杀手不太好。 What do you think accounts for their enduring appeal and popularity among Chinese audiences? Do you think this trend is good or bad for the Chinese film industry? How do you comment on that?

this is not always in China, but it's worldwide. It's kind of like the film industry has been going through a dark time. It's growing very slow, not only in the content, but the box office and people don't watch film that much. But when you bring the old films back, a lot of people go to watch. I think on the one hand for the people who import these films, the cost is not that much.

So when they go into the theater, it's a wing business. It's never a dollar. It's an omnic for cinema as well. Yeah. Everyone's going to earn money because it's Oshio. So you don't need to buy it at a very expensive cost. And then everyone come here, they don't want to watch something that they don't know.

They don't know if it's good or bad. The audience, when they're trying to buy the take, I know, Harry Potter is a good show. So they would just go buy it. It's not going to make any mistakes. More predictable. Yeah. And Leon, of course, is a classic. I even went to watch Leon. Oh, I love it. I think there's a lot of time that people don't get a chance to watch it in the movie theater as well, right? So it's not only here, but I believe in other international film festivals outside

of China, they're bringing back a lot of old films as well. They do like portions and also they do it in 4K. So they try a lot of different ways to bring back the old films. Others love it. So I think it's not a Chinese thing. It's global. Everyone enjoying the old films because on the one hand, they know it's good and it has been selected through time.

On the other hand, they're not going to make a mistake. And they have their own memories related to the film. Probably when they were very young, they watched it and then, oh, they loved it and they want to go back again. But for them to choose a new film, it's kind of risky. Because it's likely that you might waste your time. Like it's for two hours. Yeah, it's like for the same price. Why not? It's just something you already know is good, right? I think that makes sense. And you mentioned about global.

I think actually in recent years, there are many Chinese, the culture-based products or culture-type products going global. This year, we saw like the Black Miss Wukong, like AAA type of game that really, you know, not just receive lots of good attention from China, but also like enjoy some popularity in some other countries. Speaking of like

Chinese films going global. I remember that 20 years ago, we have like the film like The Hero, like directed by Zhang Yimou, very famous Chinese film director, which actually got some success in North America in box office. But it seems that we haven't seen many similar achievements after that, or maybe I'm wrong. You can correct me if I'm wrong. Why do you think that is the case? Yeah, I think you're correct. I think the most famous Chinese film or like

Crouching Tiger, Hitting Dragon, and also Hero, which make a big hit in the Western market. And after that, we barely find anything. I don't really know a lot about the commercial film, but in terms of the art-hop film, I can talk more. Because actually, Chinese film, in general, it's a very minor thing in Western. Not a lot of people

are interesting about Chinese film. But the two films we just mentioned is very Chinese. Like Chinese Chinese. Not only like the content is very Chinese and the thing is like how the Western imagined about the horizontal world.

So I think that's why they're very interested in it. But also like Li An, because he worked in the US, so he has more resources in the United States. That's why his Chinese film is more famous there. But Zhang Yimou is like big man, right? So everyone will watch his film. Like he even made another shadow. It's kind of the same, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's not like... The scene is beautiful. Yeah, it's like the Chinese... Chinese style. Yeah, Chinese traditional painting. Yeah, yeah.

aesthetically it's very good but still we don't hear a lot of like yeah why I don't know I think it's just people there are also kung fu you know elements in that yeah yeah as well I think I don't know I feel like maybe the audience were tired of it because the previous film has already fulfilled their imagination for it so they want something new about it and also I think hero that film it's not

as hard to understand as Shadow because Hero is more like very beautiful, right? Beautiful and not much talking. And they can relate that story to some story of their own culture. Yeah, yeah. It's not a very complicated story. Yeah, yeah. But I think Shadow and also the other film he made, Nanjiang Hong, those films are...

you need to have Chinese cultural background to understand the story. So I think that could be part of the reason. What I'm trying to say is I feel like it's really hard for a Chinese film to go into the mainstream of the Western market. Even though we have a lot of film directors like Jia Zhengke or Guan Hu, and they all went to Cannes Film Festival bringing their own pieces, but it's not mainstream. A lot of films also sell to

because I know a little bit about the international sales of Chinese films. It's really hard. Like, they will sell to specific theaters only. It's not like a massive... Maybe some sort of theater for Asian people or Chinese people? Like, for North America, like, they have, I think, an AMC. They're...

now owned by Chinese companies. So they will show a lot of Chinese films for Chinese people in Canada and the United States. And in France or Europe, it's a little bit different. They sell off the Chinese blockbusters. They will get one venue for like several show times.

But for the arthouse films, they will only sell to specific theaters that they are doing arthouse films. So it's a very small portion. It's not like a massive ink theater. You have started in Seoul, right? Yeah. In South Korea. And we know, actually, I think South Korea also has a strong film sector. And we also know that maybe India, they also have their style, their movies. How do you compare the Korean movie and

Indian movies, their popularity with Chinese films popularity in other places of the world. Are these similar, as just mentioned, is the Indian film or the South Korean film, they are also the minor they are in, like the social theaters, or they're different? What was the situation? I think it's similar, even though like everybody know like K-pop and Korean, because I'll actually study the class about K-pop.

Korean pop culture in the United States. Even though their culture industry is very strong compared to ours, they have a huge impact globally. Because when I studied in the United States, everyone watched Korean dramas. Not only Chinese,

Not only Asians, but also people from Middle Eastern, from Iran. I don't even know how they watched it. They're not supposed to watch it, but everyone knows. But their films still, compared to their drama, is still a small thing. But Koreans, they learn the entire film productions in American style.

They're very much influenced by the American culture compared to us. So their film, compared to us, is more relatable for the Western audience. But still, for them to distribute their film globally, it's still hard. For Indians, it's even harder. Because Indians, you know, they have different languages in different parts and they have different religions. So they still have to have two versions of the film. Dubbed by different, some part maybe in English and some other in Hindu. I think...

Bollywood is not that popular now. Well, we were young, I think. Bollywood was always like dancing, singing and stuff. But now it's not like that. And India itself is already a big market. Like China, they have so many populations.

So you mentioned about like I think we talked a little bit about like the challenges in Chinese film sector in recent years. So how do you summarize the main challenges that the Chinese film sectors experienced in recent years? As I mentioned before that the old thing doesn't work the commercial way not only like they tried like social issues as a topic of the

film they did work like 我不是要神 I think that 我不是要神 is something very down to earth stuff like I think one of the best movies in the year I think why the others follow the path of the social topic is because of the success of 我不是要神 so the real investor trust him maybe

Yeah, the investor trust, because the director, Wen Wuyi, he has directed two films in terms of the social topic, and they all hit well. Well, the Li Xingyuan is not directed by Xu Zhen. No, no, no. Xu Zhen acts in Wo Bushi Yao Sheng. Oh, Xu Zhen is not directed? Yes, but now, like, Xu Zhen's film doesn't work. I don't know if Wen Wuyi's next show still works, but it's supposed to exist.

so many investments in there. And they also tried the Kaixing Mahua. They made a lot of company films every year. But now still not everyone works. Only Shen Teng works. He's the key of the box office. So that's why I feel like they are trying to find more interesting topics

that the audience can relate. Like the 年会不能停, that family is also good. It's also something related to everyone. So they're trying really hard. It was like the annual meeting of companies in China, like at the end, like the annual party and meeting, right? That topic.

Yeah. Like it's Tom Forrest's topic and it's comic. Yeah, but it's not like the traditional comedy we see, right? It's not like... I haven't watched the movie. Oh yeah, it's different. You should watch it. So it's more like a humorous way to talk about something that everyone is stressed about.

I think the challenge they're facing now is really still that finding a good topic of the film. What about the way to promote a film? I saw you have an account on Little Red Book, like a Chinese type of Instagram. I don't know if that is correct, but has that been changed in recent years in terms of promoting a movie?

In China, maybe you have to create some topics on the social media platform. And maybe, I guess, you have to get very short clips of some videos, like on the TikTok, right? Sometimes some people are joking that they can watch movies through TikTok platform with different clips, different shots of one movie. It's changed a lot. I remember when I went back in 2008,

2015. It's a very traditional way. We don't use TikTok or even Meituan. Now it's everywhere. When you open the app, you will have something that says the movie. Meituan is a food delivery company. Yeah, exactly. And it's also...

Meituan is actually related to Maoyan as well. It is also a platform for selling like the movie tickets. Yes. Nowadays, they have one. Douyin is definitely a very important platform because a lot of topic and also the people who are

actually going to the movie. So the first tier cities and the second tier cities, people who are in these two zones, the way they get information is different. But for like, because people use TikTok a lot. TikTok is like the primary app they're using every day. So for

the film distribution, TikTok is very important. Just as you said, that they will put a lot of clips of the film, not only of the film, but also the making of the film to attract the audience, to make them want to watch the film. But this is

also dangerous so some people are often watching that they will not go to the movie yeah that's that's one of the reason i think it's dangerous but also the other one is you put all the interesting clips online already and when people go see the movie theater they're disappointed there's no more surprise yeah because just like sometimes when you watch a trailer of the show it's like oh it's very interesting and then after you watch the film it was like oh everything interesting is in that trailer so it could be controversial sometimes

But TikTok is very important. And on the other hand, there is also another way of distribution, which I really don't know if it's working, but everyone is still using it, that they will invite the crew and the director and the actors and they went to different cities and you'll meet the audience. And there's a lot of like that now.

And they call it 观影团. Yeah, I think they saw old actors joking that in their age, they never did something like this. Nowadays, they have to go to different cities, to different movies to talk to the audience, right? Before, they actually had that kind of meetings with the audience to promote their films. But now it's even more. It's like some KOLs, they will have their own watching event. And they will use their platform to gather the audience and then meet.

the crew of the films and everyone attend the event for free and the interaction of that seems sometimes i saw that on on tick tock i think it's also and yeah it's also another way to attract all these actions right they will invite probably some famous people like some other directors and there's some other actress and actors and they will point their name ask them to say something about the show i remember you know i saw good you is involved yeah that's what

There's a lot of people like that. It's kind of like a show, you know? They just want to cut it and include it on TikTok. Or, well, like, someone famous say something good about this film. I don't know if that really works. Well, in my opinion, I don't think it works. But, you know, they're still doing it. Yeah.

I think they're not only in Chit Talk, but also in The Little Red Book as well. They will have some accounts to pay some social media and KOLs to do it. So in your view, what characteristics should a good film have in order to be successful at the Chinese box office nowadays? Not only for Chinese film, but also the other countries as well. The most important thing for film is that you need to communicate with the audience.

The film has to convey not only emotions, but also talk to the audience. The audience can relate themselves to the film. They feel they are respected and they feel they can learn something or the film is important to them. That's why I think

Xu Zhaoxiong is controversial because I think a lot of people may doesn't feel that. So for the new movie, like even, you know, like you mentioned the Leon or Harry Potter, they're not something that's done to us. They're totally fantasy films, feature films, creative stories, but people can feel things through the film. I think that's the most important. I think that's the critical

creativity, and also the creation of film. People feel things the way we watch it. And if we relate it to it, we will like it. So about the Golden Rooster and the 100 Flowers Film Festival this year, is there any other thing that you want to share with us about your project or your thoughts before we move to the recommendation session, or even about your projects you're planning in the future?

Yeah, my plan is just I just want to keep doing my new films. Actually, don't produce it because freedom for me is very important. I want to do something I like, even though we're making films in a very low budget. Everyone is really happy

How do you define low budget in China? Well, different people will have different way. Maybe for the production companies, for them, it's like under 10 million. 10 million yuan? Yeah. Okay. Like for me, I've been making films like under 200,000. 200,000 yuan. So I make film in a very low budget way. And that's because I know there's a similar group in Argentina. They called Pempero. They're a group of...

college professors who are majoring in films they make film very low budget way with everyone like only probably like 10 person and everyone changed their different roles in different films they act or they direct or they do the cinematography and everything they are really famous worldwide right now they went to all the big film festivals like Cannes Venice or

rather than berlin everywhere their film is really cheap and their film is good so i turns to have this theory that the quality of the film doesn't relate to how much money it costs i think the content is more important than the money and how you spend the money it's also another interesting thing that how you can spend one penny and two like 10 different things instead of like

thousand monies in one thing. So they're like my role model. I'm trying to create something interesting in low budget because I really don't think we need to put that much money in this thing. You mentioned about low budget, maybe just 200,000 yuan. That is actually about 30,000 US dollars. How can you lower the budget to such type of level? I mean,

You don't write stories yourself, right? How do you get the story? How do you get all these directors, the actors, actresses? How does that operate? I don't know. It just happens. Can you tell us some stories from some universities? Usually the director, they will write their own stories and they will come to me with their stories and then they said they want to make this film. Then we're going through it and see if it's possible and then...

I will give them some, I usually don't give advice in terms of the creativity, but I will give them advice in terms of the production side, like how we can save money or if there's a way we can save money. And we will talk about that practical things. We have like, we sort of have like a little group, everyone. I would just call like, oh, we were going to make a film. Like, are you guys having time? Because majority of my friends are like me. They don't work in a company. They freelancers.

freelance. So they probably, when they join doing films, they're probably doing advertisement or they have some other business. When it comes to film, we know that when we're making film, it's not that we're here to earn money and we're here to have fun. Basically, we have there always to support ourselves. And film is just something...

we do for fun. But you are the one who talk to the investors, right? Or you have to actually, you have to sell the idea of producing that movie to the investors. I see. Let's move to our recommendation session. We invite every guest on our podcast.

recommend something to our listeners. It can be a book, a movie, a TV series, a podcast, or even a video game. Feel free to recommend anything to our listeners, but I would like to ask you to at least recommend a Chinese film to our audiences. So I will recommend one movie I recently watched. It's not in theater yet, but it will be in theater I think in December 22nd. It's also the opening film of this year's Glitter Wooster. It's called

Her story is directed by Shao Yigui. Her premiere's work is called Ai Xing Shen Hua. Oh, that's a good movie. I like that movie. The new one is even better. Do you think that Ai Xing Shen Hua is a low-barred movie? I mean, they are very famous actors and actresses, but the cost is not that high, right? I think for the production company, it's not a high budget at all.

I mean, to them, it's a low-budget film and they made a big success. That's why they decided to do the second one. What's Hao Dongxi meaning about? It's also about like people's life in cities? Yeah. Okay. It's happening in Shanghai as well. Okay. And what do you think the casting group is? The cast is Zhong Shuxi, Song Jia, Zhang Wu.

Zhao Youting. If you watch the Ai Qing Shouhua, you will know it's like a city love story. But this time, she kind of created those three different generations of women, like elementary students and a young girl and also a single mom. Three of them, they have their own confusion about their life and they have their own problem they need to solve. Instead of like surrounding themselves

a man. This time, like, she just totally took out as a man. Like, a man is like a tool. So it's pretty feminist, but also in a very humorous way. So I think that's how... But I don't know how, like, the third or fourth city...

people still read to it but i'm pretty sure in beijing shanghai everyone's well of it do you think is it can be a success even without a strong popularity from the third and fourth tier cities in china because the chinese block is big enough that if you can ensure you can get success in first year city and second two cities can be a success if you operate well

Yeah, but I think if you operate well, like you control the budget and then you calculate the math, it's possible. But in general, like the big box office area is the third and fourth. Yeah, because people there, they have to happen to go to the movie theater even more than like Beijing or Shanghai because everyone's really busy in Beijing and Shanghai. If they decide to go to a film, they need to calculate their time and need to plan it very well.

And it's also a big city. Traveling is also the cause. But some smaller towns and cities, it's normal for people to, well, I don't know what to do. I just go to the women's area. Their life path is also slower, so it's workable for them. That makes sense.

Okay, thank you very much, Andy. Thank you for coming to my show. I think we have a very fantastic talk. So thank you very much. I hope you have a successful, I mean, you already have some success in the film sectors, but I hope you accomplish your goal this time in the Golden Rooster and the 100 Film Festival. And I will definitely check the Hao Dong Xi in December.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Inside the China Room podcast. For cooperation, investing, or feedback, you can email me directly at jjang.sisu at hotmail.com. Alternatively, please consider leaving a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Substack. If you find our podcast helpful, we would be delighted if you recommend it to others.

See you next time and take care.