478: Be The Comprehensive Human The Moment Demands. Jason Wilson Pt.2
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This is Jocko podcast number 478 with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. Also, back with us again for round two. If you didn't listen to 477, we brought on Jason Wilson. He's back again, and we are going to talk through where we, we're going to pick up where we left off last time. So last time, again, if you haven't listened to that one yet, go listen to 477.com.

We cover kind of, you know, Jason's background growing up, what he went through and how he ended up sitting here today talking to me. Went through a lot of struggles as a young man and a lot of temptations, a lot of off ramps that he could have taken along the way. But by the grace of God, he's here sitting with us and we're

we'll get back into it. So the movie comes out now, is there, is there possibilities of other movies? Yeah. The talk, the main goal was cry like a man, make that into a movie. And that's what Lawrence really loved that book. He, he would tell me you can't even make this stuff up. Like we would have to get this out. And so we'll see what happens. Um, definitely would love to do a movie on that book. I think it'd be really, well, I know it would be really powerful. Oh yeah. Um,

Yeah, so that's the end goal. It'd be good because, man, people need good examples. And for someone that has been through what you've been through and to still live a life that is exemplary is just such a great example for people. And look, it's cool if we make a movie about the football star or the rock and roll star or whatever, but...

but to make a movie about a normal man that does extraordinary things in a normal environment. You know what's, man, you're making me think of a lot of things that, like, man, the path that I took trying to attain certain things came when I just did what God wanted me to do. So, for instance, I always wanted to meet certain rappers and influencers, and here it is, Lawrence Fishburne calling, rappers reaching out to me that are real popular,

Not for producing, just being a regular man helping boys and men heal and be authentic. And that's really humbling and to some extent sobering. Like, man, if you just walk in your purpose, you know, pursue that. And I'm chasing music and all these other things. She's like, no, I need you to chase me. And when you chase me, you will find your purpose. And then when you find your purpose, now you live up to your name, which Jason actually means healer.

And so actually healer, the Lord of salvation. And so I embody that, that meaning. And so it's just, just looking back, even looking at the books on this table, like, man, there's three books from a young man that's been through so much, you know, uh, well, old man, older man, but yeah, it's everyone needs hope, man. You know, uh, as dark as this world can get at times, uh,

you know, I'm convicted to shine my light more. A friend of mine in jujitsu, I wanted to stop. I said, man, this is too much, you know. He says, well, when are the good guys going to get in the light? And I never forgot that. And then when Christ says we are to let our light shine in such a way that men will see our good works but glorify him who is in heaven. So we're supposed to be bright. We're not supposed to blind people where we should give them enough light where they can find their way. And so when I found that,

I found the peace that I've been yearning for that nothing else could give me and the purpose. So yeah, you triggering a lot today, man. Yeah. Appreciate it. That's wild. You know, we were talking about, so I've written a bunch of kids books and when you write books, the publishers want to keep you in the category that you've been successful in. So, you know, I had written at the time, I had written a book called Extreme Ownership and it was, it did incredibly well. Like,

Off the charts, very lucky, blessed with that scenario. So what's the next thing I deliver to my editor, my publisher? I say, I want to write a kid's book. And my publisher says,

He just said to me, hey, look, no, it's like you're, you know, that's not, that's a totally different genre and it's fiction and it's kids and it's totally different. And you don't want to, if you do that and it doesn't go well, your next book, your adult book is not going to be this thing you want. A million reasons. And you look to his credit, you know, he's from that industry. I'm naive and dumb. And, you know, he's trying to help me and just say, listen, it's not worth the risk to do that.

But I I had the story in my head. I knew what I I was gonna write it and so luckily, you know, I just said well, I know you don't want me to do it, but I'm doing it and wrote that book and Again, just very blessed didn't credibly well And then I followed it up with two three four five six five more books kids books and they've all been you know successful and

And now we filmed a movie on it. It's amazing, man. It's going to be so nice to see this movie come out and the positive impact it's going to have. The messages that are in it are just wholesome, good messages delivered in a way that people are going to be impressed.

It's going to give a good role model to kids. They're going to see a good way, a good path forward. They're going to see that you can step up. You can face challenges. You can face the hard things in life. There's going to be hard things in life. And it's going to help kids out. Are you in it? I am in it, yes. Now, the role that I play is a real stretch for me as an actor.

Why do you laugh? Check this out, Jason. In the movie, I play a retired SEAL commander, Lieutenant Commander, retired SEAL Lieutenant Commander who owns a place called Victory MMA and Fitness.

where he teaches kids jujitsu. So that's the role that I play. And yeah, it was a big stretch. Hopefully I didn't make Chris Pratt look too bad. Man, he's good. What a great guy. Yeah, man. Yeah, what a great guy. And you said he reached out to you for a buck? So I didn't know he was following me. And so I was just blown away that I had inspired him in any way. And then to find out he's a believer as well.

and I messaged him about just letting him know like, man, I'm just blown away. And then when this book came out, The Man the Moment Demands, I said, would you like a copy? I could send it to you. He was like, man, I love your work. Absolutely, this, this, and that. And when the fires happened, he didn't respond, so I wondered if he didn't get it. And so when you brought up that he's,

a major role in this film, I'm like, okay, thank you, guy. I just want to get him this book because he's a really cool guy, man, from what I could tell, man. He's a great guy. Yeah, his house was spared.

But, you know, the fires in Pacific Palisades, this is common knowledge, right? The fires were in Pacific Palisades in Los Angeles, California, just south of Malibu, just north of Santa Monica. That area was almost completely destroyed. And his house is, you know, like right in there, right smack dab in the middle of it. And by the grace of God, his house was spared. But I don't even know what that means. Like, I don't...

can you imagine trying to move back into your neighborhood and there's nothing there? Like there's nothing there, but like, uh, ash and smoke and chemicals. And there's no, I don't know if they have power. I don't know if they have water. Like, I don't know what the situation is. So yeah, if you send it to him and via mail, well, it was in the mist. It was during that time. Yeah. And I, I bet he didn't get it. Um, but yeah, he's just a, a great guy and he does a great job in the role. Um,

It's amazing to watch guys like that. You know, they're just... So he's such a pro. Yeah. And he cared so much, you know. He brought that movie to life because when... You know how it is in Hollywood. It's nothing short of a miracle to get something actually made, right? Oh, for sure. So like for you to have the documentary made, that's amazing. For sure. And it's going to take a minor miracle to get Cry Like a Man made. Oh, absolutely. And what really bothers me is you'll go watch...

Most movies that come out you're like how did this get made? How did cry like a house cry like a man not being made into movie and there's some random thing That's not good for human beings and it's getting made and it's getting promoted Is this similar hurt like even with Disney there they live off of the one hit and the rest of the movies are

Even if they fail they still survive is I'm hearing this it's like that in Hollywood. So that's I know that's how books are Yes, so so with books, you know, they publish a hundred books They want one of them to be a hit and if one was a hit they can they can survive for another year I'm sure Hollywood is something similar to that They no one you know, it's super expensive to make a movie and

Especially once you're, because filming a documentary, even that's expensive, but that's not as expensive as damn a feature film. Yeah, for sure. You get like between one and three minutes of movie a day. So on a 12 to 15 hour day of filming, you get one to three minutes of movie. I didn't know that. Yeah.

'Cause it's crazy. They film it from this angle, they film the, if they were filming this right here, they'd film all of us three from a distance. They'd film it over Echo's shoulder pointed at you, over Echo's shoulder pointed at me, over your shoulder pointed at me, over your shoulder pointed at Echo, over my shoulder pointed at Echo, my shoulder pointed, that's, what was that? Nine takes right there. Nine takes. - Wow. - It's ridiculous. And it's expensive. And it's so weird too, like, we were in this, we were filming in this,

martial arts place and Echo was telling the story later He was like gosh man the way they've got the the way they got the Sun coming into the building right now Like this is incredible. This is just such a beautiful shot cuz the Sun is coming through the it's perfect time of day through the cut like the end there's a little bit of a little bit of sweat and steam in the room so you can see the the rays of the Sun and Echoes look around going man. This is incredible. They just nailed the timing like

And then he realized a half an hour later, it looked the same. And then a half an hour later, he realized, you know what? It wasn't the real sun. It's not real. It's just the big light that looks like the sun. I showed another buddy of mine. There's a scene in a country fair, in a fair, you know, with a Ferris wheel and the different rides and the popcorn things. And one of those scenes is shot there.

It's at sunset and so my buddy I was showing him some pictures that I took and he was like dude They nailed this shot with the Sun right there. It looks so amazing and I go bro That ain't the Sun and this is a picture of the sunset You're watching this you can see what you think is the Sun and I go bro. That's not the Sun He's like what did I go? That's a light really? It's incredible. So everything that you see in a movie. It's so weird and

It's not real. I know it's I know we know that like it's not supposed to be a surprise But things that are in a movie. They're not real things And you know even at that we had this fairground set up. It's totally fake It's it's it's not real, but they have hot dogs. They got popcorn They got people eating fried dough like people with tickets people getting on rides. It's it's

And every single one of those people is an extra, is an actor that's out there doing the thing. It's crazy. - Wow, man. - It's crazy. - Wow. - But so because it's so expensive, because you have to put so much money up front, that movie has to do really well on the back end. So you're right. They have to make movies, they have to cut budgets down, they have to make as many movies as they can and then cross their fingers that one of those movies is a big hit.

And the whole streaming thing now has disrupted everything. So it's wild times. It's wild times. And the thing is with, for my perspective, is it opens up the story to so many more people. So like a movie compared to a book is just gonna be so much more accessible to so many more people. So if they made your book, Cry Like a Man, into a movie,

so many more people are gonna see that than are gonna be reading the book. Unfortunately, you know, I wish it wasn't like that, but those are the facts of the case. - Yes. - Is that what Charles likes to say. - And streaming actually, it cut the movie, the lifetime down like that three weeks now.

I'm sure it's yeah, by the way. We didn't mention this the the documentary is available your document is available on ESPN ESPN plus ESPN plus yeah, so if you want to watch that it's awesome. It's awesome to watch It's awesome to follow these kids I'm sure you can even do a follow-up of that those that means that was made what three three years ago four years ago We started shooting we stopped shooting in

Right before COVID. Oh, so that's like four years old. Yeah. So you'd be checking back in with these kids in a couple of years. Yeah. See how they're doing. We could do that. Yeah. I still talk to them. But yeah, we thankfully Helen, who was Lawrence manager, like pushed to shoot in December because we didn't know what was coming in 2020. And so we lost two years there pretty much. Gosh. And that's what happened. Yeah.

And it was unfortunate, too, because the boys who were going through the rite of passage, we lost two years with them. So it was very tough. Yeah, very tough time. What's the percentage of people that stick with the program at the cave? What's the age? What age do I start? Eight years old. We start at eight until 12 years old. So it's eight to 12. Yes. What are the percentages of kids that make it through those years? Four years. I'd like to check on...

Is it most of them? Yeah, I would say almost all of them because we have an 800 kid waiting list right now. And so if you're able to get in, the parents, you're not leaving. They want you in there because of what it does to you outside of the martial art piece. There was part of the movie.

I was watching the movie and they're talking to this woman, this mom, and I forget the exact thing, but she says, you know, my son was doing this, my son was doing that. I tried this, I tried that. And she goes, he needed the cave. My wife and I were watching it. My wife started laughing. She's like, oh, I know that feeling. He needed it.

- Yeah, that's Crystal, yeah. I think that's Gabe's mom, yeah, it sure was. - She knew what was up, he needed the cave. - And that's what they say when they come, if I'm out, you know, mothers, one mother literally joined our gym where I worked out at to make sure she ran into me.

- Yeah. So you got 800 kids on a waiting list. Is there not a way to, for lack of a better word, franchise it so other people can run a program? - It is. The problem is you have to be more than just a martial artist. So now you have to deal with psychology, emotional intelligence,

And a lot of men haven't dealt with their own things to be able to help a child. And so I have great martial artists who come and say, hey, I want to help. Great, I give them a book. Let's dive into you and see where you are. And I don't hear back from them because, you know, we're running in front of bullets to save our families.

But when we have to deal with our own issues, we won't go in that direction because it's painful. And a lot of it, a lot of men don't want to unearth those memories. And because, again, it's going to bring forth emotions that we are taught from childhood we shouldn't feel. And so, yeah, it's it's heart rending. You know, you say, well, 800 kids, that's a lot. But at the same time, it's like, man, many of these kids will age off by the time we call them.

And so our goal is to make an academy, a school, middle school. That way the Cave of Adelam will be a part of the core curriculum as well. And that way we could definitely reach more kids at one time.

What's the next step in that program? - Well, we're actually gonna do a summer camp this summer to pilot it, to see what it looks like for an eight hour day for a young boy where he has his core curriculum as well as etiquette training. We do dining etiquette, financial literacy, grooming etiquette as well. And so we get to see what it looks like this summer and I've had several people, investors, like look, you do this, I'm behind you. I have teachers who've retired because they're tired of the school system

They say, "Look, I'll leave my job. "If you do a school for boys "and it's centered around the cave, I'm there." Now you can scale that. That can be scaled. - I've had a bunch of people ask me about a Warrior Kid. So the kids' books, I wrote Warrior Kid. I've had people ask me about that since the day the book came out.

You got to do a school with this. And that's one of the first steps that I've looked at is like, okay, well, maybe we could start with a summer camp. My son went to a wrestling camp called J Rob. It doesn't exist anymore. Unfortunately, it didn't survive through through COVID. But the guy, Jay Robinson, he was a ranger in Vietnam and he was a champion wrestler in

And it was a great program. I mean, it was just a great program. My son went out there and he went with his best friend. I think they were about 14 years old in between their freshman and sophomore year. But they had to write down all their goals. They had to write down all their weaknesses. They had to write down all their strengths. They had to write down what they were going to do to get better. They had to write down what they eat every day. They had to write down how they felt. They had to write down how they performed.

They couldn't, one of my favorite things, when you sit on the floor, when you sit on the mat, you lean back on your hands. You're not allowed to sit like that. - Absolutely. - Yep, so it's like all those little habits. And he came back, he came back a better human. And I remember, so you gotta, every day you're getting graded, and if you get a certain demerit, you can't get this T-shirt. There's a T-shirt that says I did it. And that's what the kids want. The kids wanna get that T-shirt.

And the last thing that you had to do was a 12 mile run. And my son had hurt his ankle like early. And so he had a bad ankle and I was worried. I talked to him on the phone and I said, you know, you got that run tomorrow. I said, well, you know, what are you going to do with your ankle? And he said, I'm going to go to the athletic trainer and tell them to tape it up so it can't so it doesn't move.

and I'm gonna get it done. And he did. And I was like, okay, cool. That's what I like to hear, you know, taping up. My father likes that. That's awesome, man. But yeah, when you talk about a school turning the cave into a school, whew.

man, that would be so good. And that's how you could scale it. - That's what I see. We've tried so many other ways and it's a need for all cultures, honestly. It's interesting on social media, you have the, I guess they call them trollers. They say, why aren't any white kids in there? And I say, well, there's no sign that says colors only. I say, so that's not on me 'cause God didn't give it to me just for it to be isolated in one community.

Because it's designed really to help boys in general because all of us are jacked up. You know, when that video went viral, I thought it was just a black issue as far as being emotionally incarcerated and hyper masculine, etc. No, it's a man issue and we all need help. And our kids are learning from broken men who are walking around with broken boys inside.

And so it's definitely something I know is cross-cultural. I have friends who are Mexican, especially. They say, man, you ain't get some of this Mexican blood in the cave. That's what they tell me all the time. And because they know, especially in their culture, that, you know, provide and protect. And it's like, but I'm unhealthy. You know, I'm not even patient with my kids. I'm not even, I don't even love myself really.

And when you can teach an eight year old these principles and then around an academic setting where typically all of the issues are and everyone abides by these core principles and teachings and then the centerpiece instead of physical ed, you have the cave. You're talking about changing a whole generation of boys. Then you're talking about changing a whole generation of men, fathers, husbands, presidents, leaders,

That's where it is. And that's where we're going. We're going to try it this summer and see how it works. And my desire is to scale it. And I don't want it to die with me. That's my greatest prayer. Because my body's aging out, man. It feels like it's almost time. But this can't die with me. So God, what is it? And it's like the school, the teachers, the men. I got high quality men.

And you know how many teachers are desiring for something like this? So now all you need is that one teacher for the K, but you have the whole wraparound. Now it's a lot easier. And so there's funding for that. A guy gets insurance and everything, and he has to teach. And your focus is the emotional stability training here to make sure that they have a foundation to be better academically. Then you incorporate job skills training, like real-life training with kids.

This is all stuff when people asked early on and you know, what would a warrior kid school look like and this is exactly what I was I literally was like, oh job we this is one of the podcast one early podcast we did it was

teaching about how to do maintenance on a vehicle, teaching about how to use tools, how to do basic framing and trim work. And I guess if you're there, we'd have to do some tile work as well. And fix a hole in the wall. That's what I was telling my friends who were going to teach the construction module of the school. I said, I don't want them to be master carpenters, master plumbers, master tile setters.

I need them to be, like we would say, anything, everything they have to be at any given moment. So fix the hole in the wall so you don't have to pay $125 for a drywaller. Do you know how to change a flange on the toilet? How do you stop a leak? I mean, like, these are big. This is where your costs are going to come.

And I'm like, you incorporate that with community service, financial literacy at a young age? Open bank accounts for all of the students to start saving and investing at nine and 10 years old?

It's over. Game changer. Yeah. You know, I think there's going to be such a high demand for this kind of stuff. I think, I think the demand exists right now. And I think it's just a matter of the market supplying it, which, you know, clearly you're going to make a stab at it this summer. I'm sure it's going to be awesome. Uh, hopefully I can get out there over the summer. I mean, they'd love to see you, especially to, so we have like four of the peer instructors who were four of the guys you gave the rash guards. Oh, right on. So they would love to see you. If you can swing it that way when you were just there for, uh,

- Your product, definitely. - Yeah, yeah, a few years ago I have to get it. - We couldn't meet up that time though, yeah. - I'll come and hang out at Meijer. They sell Jocko for a little bit, Meijer. - Yeah, for sure, let me know. - Yeah, we'll make that happen. Picking up where we left off last time. So the book "Battle Cry", talk about the premise of the book "Battle Cry". - I wrote that book in the midst of COVID. And so talking about dealing with your inner wars, your battles.

And so many men were because for the first time in their life, they couldn't, there was no escape. There was not, I couldn't say, Hey honey, I'm at work. Uh, I'll be home late. And now I have an hour to talk to you so I can go to bed.

You were in the house the entire time. Children, wife. Did divorce rates go up or down? Oh, yes, up. Did they? Oh, yeah. A friend of ours who was a lawyer, she was like maxed out. It was too much because people never dealt with their real issues, especially the men. So we're taught to sweep it under the rug and keep going. And so that's why I wrote that book is let's yell a battle cry and wage and win our inner battles before they become external wars.

that's what the premise of that book was and to send them out to battle the real battle and it's within us you know that as a seal you know matter of fact a gentleman named Ryan made he was a psychologist for the Navy SEALs 15 years I met him he works with the Royals now okay and he was just intrigued by the cave of a dullum he was like you don't know you're doing psychology here he says but I'm intrigued because it doesn't turn into a challenge

He said, that was my greatest struggle with the SEALs. It's like it always turned into a challenge when you're trying to get men to deal with the emotion side. And I said, I get it. He said, how are you doing? I said, well, I think I just model at first. You know, when my kids first saw me cry, the armor, the crack in the armor, when my mother had a stroke, I couldn't be this stoic teacher anymore. And when that tear came out and my students saw it,

it not only liberated me and the fathers who were there, but it liberated them. And that's when that video went viral because they had already were used to being transparent in that moment. And so when I looked at, when I met with Ryan, he was like, this is really a gift, man. And like, you should try to do it with more men as well. And he would share stories with me about the seals. Like one, it's like, you guys have to swim across, like you're not going to make it. What is that called?

When you're swimming, it's, I forgot how far you have to swim. And it was like he was saying that a lot of guys didn't even make it all the way through. There's so many things like that where a lot of guys don't make it. Whether it's a 50 meter underwater swim. That's what it was. Which again sounds kind of easy until you have a cough and a cold because you've been in and out of the water. And then you got to jump in, do a somersault, swim. They make everything as a little bit

Even like a four-mile timed run. The four-mile timed run in first phase is 32 minutes. That's nothing. You know what I mean? Any high school athlete can do that, no problem.

But you get it there and you got a cold and you did, you know, 708 count bodybuilders at two o'clock in the morning. And now you got a four mile time run at four o'clock in the morning. You see guys fail. And by the way, the four mile time run is anywhere between four point one miles and four point five miles, depending on where they park the truck and what the tide is like. You guys run with gear on as well.

Those runs are boots, cami pants, and t-shirts. So that's a game changer as well. Yeah, it is.

It could have been any of these things that your friend Ryan was talking about. He didn't share a lot, but when he said that, he says, you don't understand what you're helping them work through is what the SEALs do and how much emotions play a role even on the battlefield. And that's what drew me to you, man, hearing how you, especially at Ann Arbor, you were talking about the emotions and how you have to control them in the moment or you're done. And I'm thinking on the battlefield, if you're frantic and we need...

and you're lost emotionally, we're done. And so, yeah, I didn't know the, well, that seems attainable running, but when you add all those other factors in, that's why I was taken aback when you said that, like, man, I could do seven minute mile on a good day. Yeah. And I tried to get that down, but my knees is like, you need to Peloton, Jason. But yeah, I had, yeah,

I know if we did a school man, especially even with your book, what you're talking about in the movie, it's already a demand for it. That's why the boot camps existed and the scare straight programs, they was just the wrong formula. It didn't work. It made... Did they do...

Or do you know about research about the Scared Straight program? Did they track and did it help any of those kids? Well, I don't know about the research. I can tell you about the boys that I knew who went through it and the schools who participated. They stopped within a year. No kidding. They didn't see the improvement. You didn't deal with the core issues. You didn't deal with the why.

You know, it's similar like with martial arts, you wanna know how it works, but not why it works. In a real fight, techniques will look different, 'cause you're not, you don't have a compliant attacker. Even when you're rolling with someone,

you still know this guy, you know this girl. There's a lot missing from that. - A role in the gym is different from a role in a competitive match, which is different than a fight, which is different than a fight to the death. Like each one of those things has its own little-- - He say to the death. - Each one of those things has-- - Yeah, gotta pull out one of these. Oh, it changes significantly. And that's why I love when you said,

The best self-defense is a gun. You said if someone pulls a knife out, run. People don't understand. Like, dude. You know, there's a whole category. I was going to talk about this a little bit on the last podcast we did, but I was talking to a young SEAL the other day, and

So when we do training, we do force on force training, which means you're gonna fight other living people and we use paintball, a form of paintball, it's called simunition. And you use your real gun, but you have a different barrel for it and now you're shooting paintball, but it's your real gun. And it's very realistic. It's very realistic. 'Cause your pistol has simunition, if your primary goes down, you switch it, you're moving down the hallways and you can put down cover fire.

But there is still something that's missing. And it's very similar to what you were talking about in the last podcast with knife fighting and like how there is a certain psychological element that you cannot train properly with a fake knife.

Just like there's a psychological element that you can't train properly with fake bullets and it's this it's this right here So if you're a bad guy and you're down the hallway from me you can You know come out of your doorway and start shooting at me and you could put down a whole magazine and get good accurate fire on me by Looking down your sights and shooting at me and if I'm in the hallway, I'm gonna get killed what?

doesn't exist in that situation is the actual human fear that you would have as a bad guy sticking your head around the corner. Now, when you're a jihadist, you don't care if you live or die.

There's well some jihadists don't care if they live or die. So they're just gonna do it anyways, but some of them are gonna be like Oh, well, I don't actually want to die right now And you see the guys doing the Medal of Honor runs like you'd see young young seal Freakin we'd be in a paintball fight in training. You'd see young seal go out charge cross, you know the grab a wounded guy who's been shot with paintball and drag him out of the street and

That's it is cool and guys do that for real my guys did that for real with real bullets but it's it's Different when it's real than it is with training. There's just a difference there So the closer you can get to realism the more you're gonna understand it You're never gonna quite note and that's why I like, you know your instructor that said hey, we're gonna use real knives They're dulled

but they're real you ever seen those knives that have the uh sparks in them or whatever it's called yeah the electric ones yeah they like have you seen those uh you know what a taser is right yes it's like that so it's like a it's like a knife taser so it's it can't stab you but you get shocked and you feel it and you feel it like a like a legit shock so that way you get that real fear

because you see the fake martial artist that's like, oh, when someone comes at me with a knife, I do this, this, and this. It's like, bro, you don't do that. You go, ah! That's what you do. Yeah, you're not doing any of that. You don't want nothing to touch you? No. So think about that stuff. Can I ask you a question? So I always wanted to know, is it true that that swim you were just telling me about that Ryan talked about,

If a seal goes under, does he like pass out for a while and you revive him? I heard about that. I didn't know how true that was. So get the fear of death out. Is that accurate? He might have also been talking about something called drown proofing. And in drown proofing, they tie your feet together and they tie your hands behind your back. And then they put you in the water and you've got a float. Well, I forget what it's called. Survival float for like 10 minutes.

Then you've got to swim. I think it's 100 meters. It's down to one end of the pool, back to the other end of the pool, and back to where you were. So it's 100 meters. And then you have to do something called bobbing, which is you basically go down to the nine-foot section, the bottom, and you push off with your feet. And then they have a bunch of dive masks on the bottom of the pool.

you have to after you do the bobbing for ten minutes Then you have to go down to the bottom of the pool and get the mask off the bottom of the pool in your teeth You have to get it in your mouth and bring it up and then tread water until they tell you you can stop and then you like Dolphin over the side of the pool and they pull you up in the air that So that's very challenging. I'd say that's more challenging for most people than the 50 meter underwater swim now

Do they let you drown? No. Do people have shallow water blackouts? Yes, they do. They do where they're trying to get it done and they can't and they just go to sleep and then people jump in and save them. But what you have to learn in those things, in those, one of the key components of that is if you panic, you're not going to pass.

How much would you say percentage-wise in SEAL training is physical and emotional? Like what would your percentage be? It's impossible to say what the percentage is because depending on who you are, the test will be different. Okay, I got you. Right? So if you are great at running, running isn't a problem. If you're bad at running,

Running is a problem. And if you're emotionally calm or if you're just used to the water, you're going to be fine in the water. If you're not used to the water, it's going to be a problem. If you can handle some chaos because they're going to make things chaotic. If you can handle that chaos and you can take a step back and take a breath, you'll be fine. If you can't, you're not going to be a problem. You're not going to be fine. If you can't handle someone yelling and screaming at you.

it's going to be a problem. If you can realize that they're doing their job and you're going to do your job, keep your mouth shut, keep going, you're going to be fine. So what it is is there's probably, you know, just, they just figured out everyone's got a weakness and they're going to find it and they can make you quit with that weakness or you can overcome that weakness. You can embrace the weakness and go, okay, I'm not good in the water. I'm going to practice in the water. I'm not good at running. I'm going to practice running and you can overcome that thing.

But people ask that sometimes, you know, is it mental or is it physical? The answer is it's both. Cause like, it doesn't matter how bad you want to do a rope climb. If you've never, if you haven't trained your muscles, you're not going to be able to, you can't, you can't miracle your way up a rope climb. It ain't going to happen. You have to be able to have the physical strength to do it. And if you don't, it doesn't matter how bad you want it. You know that, uh, you hear coach Ripetel, the, um, from starting strength, like gun to your head, right?

With squats, gun to your head, you can get to a point where you can't do anymore. Now, generally speaking, that's heavier loads, right? Like if you do a true one rep max and I put a gun to your head and say, give me one more, you can't do it. Can't do it. Now, if you're doing 20 rep squats and you got your 20th one and I put a gun to your head, you can probably get one more. You can probably get one more. Mm-hmm.

You know, in speaking to SEAL training, like, you know how many pushups you can do? You can do one more. Like, you can always do one more. That's true. You can always do one more. It's going to be sloppy. You might have, you know, what you can. And they'll do that with squats. They'll do that with sit-ups. They'll do that with pushups. Like, how many squats you can do? You can do air, like body weight squats. You can do one more. You can do one more. That's true. Somebody puts a gun to your head.

You can do one more. I mean, it would have to take hours. It would probably take hours.

12 hours before I put a gun to your head echo and said do one more squat and you failed like you just You know, especially if you're like, okay, oh good You know, you could pause for three seconds. You could pause for seven seconds. We're gonna start I'm gonna start to be like you better do it right now and then you go, okay Okay, okay. I'm gonna go and then you do it you got one more cuz you got just enough rest to get it done You could probably do that kind of indefinitely but the heavy squat

Like that's something that's your to your to rep max. You're only gonna do what you do So when it comes to seal training some of it like a rope climb You can get to a point where you can't do any more rope climbs It doesn't matter how bad you want it unless you've trained so you have to be physically ready But then the mental stuff is like go get in that water again. You don't want to get in that water again Yeah, hey, they put you in bed in a warm bed halfway through hell week. They go. Hey listen Hey class

"We just got in trouble as instructors. "We're being too hard on you guys. "The admiral just gave the order "that we need to put you guys to bed for eight hours, "and then you're gonna spend the rest of hell week dry." And everyone goes, "Oh, wow." They don't think this anymore. Everybody knows the scam now. But you know what? You go, you get in bed.

20 minute you fall asleep instantly dry clothes you get in bed you fall asleep instantly and then boom they come back in they're screaming and go get wet again a lot of people quit right then actually they don't do it on Wednesday it's like it's like a Monday Tuesday probably a Tuesday thing it's it's one of the more it's one of the bigger barriers to take a person

Take them to maximum discomfort then give them maximum comfort and then rip them back out of it That's that's a good way to get people to quit and they do a really good job of getting people to quit. So It's all these things. It's all these little challenges There's so many little wickets that you have to get through you have to be strong. You have to be calm and

you have to be lucky because there's a certain amount of luck involved. You know, you run down the beach and you're doing rock landing with the boats on the rocks and you blow your knee out. Like, Hey, it's just, it's terrible. It's very risky to try and get through that training. But thanks for sharing, brother. I just,

Wanted some confirmation on like you hear a lot and I know Ryan's legit but the other things you were here like I'm as Jocko himself when I see him Yeah, but thanks for sharing man. You know what happens to is sometimes in Storytelling people want I want you to feel what I felt So, you know someone will say dude they put you in the pool and they drown you so there's an evolution called life-saving where you have to rescue a SEAL instructor and

That's supposedly drowning. So the SEAL instructor will be in the middle of the pool.

And you'll be next in line and the SEAL instructor will look at you and go, help, I'm drowning. Like they'll say it just like that. You jump in the water and you go to try and drag them to the back of the, to the side of the pool. Well, when, as soon as you make contact with them, it's a grappling match and they're going to try, they're going to, they're pulling you to the bottom. They're going to, you know, get inverted on you. They're going to choke you. They're going to do a bunch of stuff.

Now, do they actually... Echo laughing over here. He's having a good time. Do they actually drown you?

No, they don't actually drown you. But if I wanted to explain to you what was going on, I'd say, dude, they're drowning you. So it's one of those things where I think people try and tell a story and they want to invoke the emotions from the people that they're talking to. And our human language isn't good enough for me to really convey like, bro, they drown you. And you go, well, you know, and that, so those, those kind of rumors can get spread that way. But people do pass out underwater. Yeah.

like the, the training is definitely very, very difficult and it, and it tests not too many. There's very, very, very few people that don't have some kind of challenge going through seal training, you know, very few people. That's clear. You know, not a lot of people can make it through it. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And again, that being said, if you're a,

Like an average high school athlete, which was me. I was an average high school athlete I wasn't like I read in your book. You're like I was naturally athletic and really good at football I was like, oh cool good for you. It wasn't me So if you're an average high school athlete They can train you up to where you can do what you got to do to be a to be a seal but That's where the mental part comes in because if that's all it took was being an average high

a high school athlete, everyone would make it, but they don't. Only 20% of people make it. If that. So eventually, and your latest project has been assembling this idea of the comprehensive man. And, and that's the, that's the subject of your latest book, which is called the, the man, the moment demands. And as I read the book and I put together the,

What that means is it's what you've been talking about a lot in different situations You got to bring forth the proper characteristics at that time to deal with that particular scenario and so that's why we have to be not just the man that responds to everything the same but

but you got to be the man that the moment demands. So as you shared about your daughter, you know, that moment. Yeah. Yeah. I'm doing that stuff all the time. You say just a little, a little introduction here.

While I've outlined 10 characteristics of the comprehensive man in this book, it's vital to remain open to evolving. Remember, once you've allowed someone else to define you, you can never be all you were created to be. Therefore, instead of simply conforming to perceived expectations, the comprehensive man becomes whatever the moment demands. And to me, I talk a lot about having an open mind.

And that's exactly what this is. Like, you've got to have an open mind that when your daughter, for instance, reacts a certain way, you may not be correct to respond the way you were treated or the way you treated your son or the way you treated your wife or the way you treated her three months ago. Or three days ago. Or three days ago. Or three minutes ago. Three minutes ago. Yeah. Yeah.

You say this man is not defined by societal demands in fact this man typically chooses the opposite path of the one laid out for the Masculine male as you can see here and you got a chart here So on one side of the chart you've got the masculine male which is sort of what society has put forth and then on the other side of the chart you've got the comprehensive man and

So the first example you give is the masculine male suppresses his emotions and hides behind a facade to appear strong. The comprehensive man expresses his emotions freely without fear of being judged. Now, we talked about this on the last podcast. There are times when you have to suppress your emotions. There are times where it's not appropriate to express your emotions freely. Mm-hmm.

And what I like about this book is you've got to do the appropriate one at the appropriate time. You've got to be the man that the moment demands. Yeah. How often, like I share, even I think it's Battle Cry, the huddle principle. Remember, they were just talking about the comeback. They thought Patrick Mahomes would make a comeback against the Eagles in the Super Bowl. They compared him to Tom Brady when he was down, what is it, 28 to 3 to Atlanta in the Super Bowl.

And Trey Flowers is a good friend of mine. He played on that team and he was talking about Tom's leadership in that moment. So as a husband, you know, you become a comprehensive man. Now you're a verbal processor. You don't no longer repress your emotions. You still have to read the room. OK, so the huddle principle says if my family is surrounded and we're in the huddle, then

Like Tom Brady, I can't say, hey, look, no team has ever come back from a deficit this great. I'm tired. I already got three Super Bowl rings. I'm good. So let's just pack this up. Y'all ready? And we're done. So that's not what I'm saying. So like you're saying, Jocko, you have to be wise and read the room. So you go to the huddle, see where everyone is at.

I have to ask my wife, hey, what's your capacity right now to hear something heavy that I went through today? Is this a good time for you to receive? She either say yes or no. So that gives me permission to share. You can't as a leader, you can't come to the huddle and say, we're done. We're going to lose. You know, I'm just telling you, I don't even have confidence no more. You got to know when. Now, for your children, sometimes with my son, it blesses him when he sees me move through fear and doubt.

I said, "Man, you know, I'm nervous right now. I have to speak at a large facility or whatever it is." Said, "Man, I'm nervous." I purposely tell him that so he can see me move through it. If they constantly see dad as stoic and robotic and he always gets everything under control, what happens when they feel what he feel but never seen that he feels that? Now they feel I'm a disappointment. I can't live up to Wilson's legacy.

Because my dad never folds. He's never nervous. He's never scared. But I'm feeling these emotions. And that's why it's our duty as men and fathers. Like, look, I'm going to show you this side, but this isn't the end of the story. So you're going to see dad nervous now, but I'm going to move through this and let's look at what happens at the end. And that's what's real important about the huddle principle is like you have the freedom now. But with that freedom to express yourself comes a responsibility to know when.

One of the things I talk about from a leadership perspective, very similar, is generally speaking, the leader has to look at the mob. Because by the way, when you're in a leadership position, you're in charge of a mob. And you're going to have a mob mentality in your family. You're going to have a mob mentality at work. You're going to have a mob mentality in your team. And when that mob starts to move emotionally in a direction, you need to make sure that it's the right direction. And generally speaking, as a leader,

When it's moving in the wrong direction, you're the only one that's going to get it moving back in the right direction. So for instance, you come into the huddle and you just had a great play and it looks like you're going to score real easy and you're already up on points and everyone's getting cocky and arrogant. You as a leader need to walk in there and go, hey, listen, gents,

We're doing okay, but this is still a game. We got to bring our A game right now. So you can go a little bit hard in that direction. If you're down by however many points Tom Brady was down and you get in the huddle and you're like...

You can see that everyone's dragging and that no one thinks you can win. And you go in there and say, well, this is still a game, but I don't know if we can make it. Exactly like you said. No, you got to pull that mob in the other direction. Yeah. So that's why that's this idea of being the man the moment demands. You've got to make sure that you understand what the demands are. You can't dictate the demands to the people. You can't dictate what you're...

Nine-year-old daughter needs from you know what you need is this no hmm doesn't work that way You got a you got her as you said read the room you gotta have a relationship that you go Oh, I can see this is really bothering her. Oh Somebody called her a name

You can't walk in there. Don't worry about kids calling you a name. Sticks and stones break your bones. Don't worry about it. Nope. Doesn't work like that. She got called a name. It hurt her. That's her whole world, that classroom. If you can't understand that and get there and give her the man that the moment demands right there, it's not going to work. That's good, man. Even I would tell parents, and I've been guilty of this.

my kids tired from work or school I say well no not work but school I say wait till you get a real job wait till you have to do what I have to do

Well, in that moment, I was the wrong man because I wasn't sympathetic, empathetic to what they were dealing with. Like you just said, school is their world. School is their work. They feel the same pressure. It just looks different with my mother when she had dementia and was living. I had to learn to say, if you fear balloons, I fear balloons. When I work with kids who are autistic, if you're scared of this, this knife falling on this table sounds like a bomb. To me, it sounds like a bomb.

And so I want to be on your side. I want to feel what you feel so I can meet that moment. And that's how I'm able to help kids heal. And with my daughter, her room wasn't dirty because she disrespected dad. It was dirty and disorderly because of being bullied at school. And I missed that.

You know? And that's why I wrote this in the dedication is to every man who is tired of being the wrong man in the moment. You know, we can change that. And so you hit it right on the head, man. It's real important that we don't put our kids, and we've been saying this in the previous episode, let them be seven. Let them be eight. Like Lil Jocko was in the seal. What's your son's name? Thor. Oh, man. Oh, man. Yeah.

But he's, like your wife said, he's not active duty Navy SEAL. And so how many of us as something not as serious as that, your son isn't you in high school playing football. You know, he doesn't need to practice eight hours a day. He's seven. And we're robbing these boys of life. And we wonder why when they get older, they don't want to work with us. They don't want to work with dad at his factory or his business because they

There's no purpose here, there's no joy. All I remember is the hardship. - You really gotta prioritize the relationship that you have. Because just same with working with another human being. If you and I have a good relationship, you'll show up early for me, you'll work hard and we'll get after it together and we'll accomplish great things. If you and I don't have a relationship, you're barely even showing up for work. - That's true. - It's the same thing with your kids. If you don't have a good relationship with your kids,

They're not gonna wanna practice. They're not gonna wanna hang out with you. They're just not gonna work. So prioritizing that relationship, and the relationship is trust, listen, respect, influence, and care. That's how I'd... Say that again. What is it? That's how I'd... Those are the components of a relationship from my perspective. Trust, listen, respect, influence, and care. Love it. So...

if i don't listen to you and you don't listen to me do we have a relationship no no if i don't trust you and you don't trust me do we have relationships if you don't respect me and i don't respect you do we have a relationship if i have no influence over you and you have no influence over me do we have a relationship no if i don't care about you and you don't care about me do we have a relationship no sir so that's what a relationship is so in order to build a relationship

Here's the hard part. I gotta give those things. That means I gotta listen to you. That means you gotta listen to your nine-year-old daughter. - That's good. - That means you gotta allow your 10-year-old son to influence you. That means you gotta treat them with, "I'm the dad, they better respect me." No, you better treat them with respect. You gotta give them trust. You gotta show 'em you care about 'em. Those things are so critical. I always tell this story about my son. My son was probably like 10 years old.

he's doing jiu-jitsu we're all dude we're all training jiu-jitsu at my gym and i see him trying to get an arm lock on on on an adult but a smaller adult but you know he's working and i said hey get your hips a little bit more under the and he looks at me he's 10 years old i said get your hips a little more under that shoulder and he goes you don't have to do that and that's what that's when i knew that's when i knew i was like oh he's not gonna want to hear this stuff from me you know like okay i got it in this book i wrote kids book

The kid's book, there's an uncle in the book that comes and mentors the kid. And one of the reasons why I didn't make it the dad is there's two reasons. Number one, I know a lot of kids that don't have dads. I didn't want them to think, oh, well, this will never be me. But also, I know kids don't listen to their dads in a direct manner. They do it indirectly. Your son is watching you. Your son is going to imitate you. Your son is...

He's listening at a depth of his soul that he doesn't even recognize. The good and the bad, it's there. So you gotta pay attention to those things. - You know, we were at Home Depot just before I came out here and a long time friend of mine sees me and we're talking. He knows my son 'cause our kids went to the same school together. So he said, "Hey Jay, how you doing?" So Jason's driving now, rolls the window down, they start talking. He's like, "You don't really know who your dad is right now."

you're really too close to see him. And I looked at him like, wow, that hit me because I told my wife when she was pregnant with Jason, I said, he's gonna refer to me, my sobriquet or nickname will be And. 'Cause my dad can do this and this and this, you know. And when he gets to the age of, when he's trying to learn independency, I'm like, don't confuse it with being isolated. But I had to send men around him like you did. That was an excellent move.

I have Chris, who's my main assistant in the cave. He's the big brother to Jason. My spiritual brother, Ron Lee, he is Jason's uncle. I got brother-in-laws because I know as long as we have the same principles, I don't care how it's conveyed. And that was so wise because one of the things that breaks my heart in the cave, mothers will say, well, he's feeling this way because his dad isn't there.

And so I'm glad you put the uncle because again, like I didn't take advantage of my stepfather when he was there. I want when kids see that movie, they won't miss the other men in their lives that could be father figures. He may never be dad. You know, no one should replace dad and can really.

but there are other men that can help you get there on that journey, man. And so that's wise. And a lot of times as fathers, we have to put our ego and pride aside and say, Hey, I want what's best for my son. Yep. Yeah. Part of it is your kids. Yeah.

are programmed to break contact with their parents so they can leave the nest. They gotta do it. If they just continually just live off of you like a parasite, they know that they have to break away. And for them to psychologically, they gotta create some kind of boundary. They know they got to. And it hurts. And it hurts. That's what we have to tell. I had to tell so many conflict resolution sessions with fathers and sons.

Tell the dad you're not conveying the real emotion and so in the book the man the moment demands I have the earthquake of emotions. Yeah, the surface emotion is anger. We quick to go there Yeah, that damages everything we love at the surface But if we could address the emotions at the hypo center where they begin So I say, you know if my friend is Steve I say you're not angry. You're hurt. You're not angry. You're scared and

You're not angry, you're saddened. Express those. And when fathers learn to be transparent, like I'm still gonna be dad, but I'm gonna let him know your action hurt me. My son has told me, he says, it wasn't the yelling, it wasn't the discipline. It was the fact that I knew I had hurt you that make me wanna change. And so when a father can allow that side to be seen,

It's a game changer. It worked for me and my son. And I love also parents say, well, how do you know when it's too much? Like, you know, parents greatest fear is giving their children too much attention or too many resources. And they kind of let their kids fend to life themselves or if their kid doesn't want to speak to them.

Now the parent is in their feelings like, well, you don't want to talk. I ain't got to talk to you either. The worst thing you can do as a parent is to let your child go silent. Just let them be. And so I often tell parents, well, what can you live with? And so what do you mean? Well, could you live with yourself humbling yourself, putting your ego aside, putting this parent title aside, and going in and doing whatever it takes to make the connection? Or would you rather receive a phone call that they overdosed? Mm-hmm.

And always it's like, I want to put the work in. And so I give them example of my son. He's like you said, my therapist told me, he's like, don't worry, they'll come back. This is this is nature. They have to do this. So little Jay, he's a teenager. He wants to be in his room by himself. I'm like, what's wrong? Why are you responding that way? He's like, nothing, dad. I'm just chilling. Or how about dad? I had a bad day, too.

You know? And we missed that as parents. So now instead of being intrusive, like just blatantly like, "Hey, don't cut the light off. Don't close the door." I say, "Son, how you doing? Hey, Dad, can I come in?" "Sure, got permission." "Hey, do you mind if I can do my work in here with you? Can I just lay down here?" And if he gives me permission, now I'm just, the presence is what he's feeling. Kids don't really care about perfection. They want to know that you're there.

And without saying a word, my presence in that room allows me to maintain, like you said, the relationship. I'm respecting you. But at the same time, I want to let you know that you mean everything to me. That's the last part, right? It's care. Yes. I care about you. I'm sitting here and I don't just like being in the same room with you is good to go. That's it. You're going to say anything to me. I could stay here on my iPad and work or read a book.

But as long as I'm here, you know, and as a father, you know, you don't want your son not to admire you or call you, hey, dad, you know. But we have to let them grow. And you have to remember, too, that.

My mother, I never talked to my mom like that, you know, or my dad. And I never thought anything was wrong. We forget that we, too, were teenagers. Sometimes we just want our own space. It doesn't mean anything is wrong. I just had a long day just like you, dad and mom. And so when we give our sons and our daughters that space and and that we're connected, like you're saying that your world is important to me just as mine.

parenting becomes not so much as a battle. That's when you get that relationship. That's when the child says, wow, you leave the room like he respected me. He asked, could he come in here? Even though you pay all the bills. But the fact that you asked is teaching him something about manhood and being respected. So that's good, man.

I need to write down that acronym. I'll text it to you. And is that in that book there? It's actually in this book here called Leadership Strategy and Tactics Field Manual. I need all of that before I leave here, man. You're going to be getting a package of books at the cave for sure. Thank you.

Okay, we made it through one of these things in this chart. Next one, exudes the male, the masculine male exudes only masculine characteristics. The comprehensive man exudes both masculine and unquote unmasculine characteristics. So this is again, this is the thing we talked about in the last podcast. It's like,

you gotta have both sides. If you're just one side, you're not functional, or you're not functioning at optimum rate. - I tell the teenagers who like sports, especially like basketball,

What if you only could go to the right? Dribble to your right. You're exposed, okay? So you want a comprehensive game. MMA exposed just traditional martial arts. You can't just know one style anymore. It's the same thing with manhood. You want to know as much as you can so you can meet the moment of a fight, an argument, or an intimate moment with your wife. Can you really be locked in? Does it have to be all physical or can you speak directly?

to the emotions of your wife, you know, and talk to the little girl in her that's still broken and needs to be healing. And that's,

That's a challenge for a lot of us because we're taught sexist performance as well. Like how long can you go? What can you do? Instead of no, I'm just going to be present. You know, I shared in the book, Nicole had an incision vertically and she had a very self-conscious about it. And one day, because I was just open, God says, I need you to kiss that scar from the top to the bottom. And I did that in foreplay and she just wept.

Because it liberated her because that was what she needed, because my wife loves me. And she says literally she believes God created her. One of her main reasons being here is to help me fulfill his purpose through my life. And so I was emotionally available for her where it wasn't about the sex anymore. It was about making sure I met the moment in that bedroom to heal her.

And when she cried, it was just a beautiful thing. And that's why the writer bought it. It's like, but that came from the work. Like you're saying with the seals, you know, how many times you try to do the rope climb if you're not trained? If you haven't exercised those muscles, it's not going to happen. So even if you read all of our books, if these men are out there,

training in real time where it matters the most practicing when it matters the most in those moments you're gonna blow it and so that's what's really important it's like I'm looking at your books man and I'm like it should be some bad brothers out here but it's a difference between you know reading it and then applying it man it's like jujitsu man you could have Hicks and Gracie himself come and teach you

a course and you could read his books and he could show you the videos. And the first time you get on the mat, you're going to get worked because you've got to do the thing. Yeah. That's what you're talking about. Second and third time, tenth time. It doesn't matter. Yeah. Going on here, the masculine male feels threatened when another man is more successful. The comprehensive man is not threatened by another man's success, but inspired by it.

Seems so common sense and yet look at what drives our world right now the masculine male views women as subservient and sex objects the comprehensive man respects women and values their superior qualities The masculine male feels fear but will do anything to prevent anyone from knowing he is scared the comprehensive man feels fear but openly admits it and thereby makes wise life decisions

It's a real liberator to be able to say, oh, yeah, I'm nervous right now. I'm scared about this thing. I know I went through that with like new guys and going into combat. And you could see it, bro. They're scared. Because you might die. Yeah. I mean, is it? And you don't want to let your friends down. And you don't want to see your friends get wounded or killed. And you've never done it before.

And so you see, you know, a guy goes to the bathroom four times in 20 minutes. You're like, oh, he's scared. His stomach is turning. And so you go say, hey, man, I just saw you go to the bathroom four times in 20 minutes. You scared? No, I'm not scared. Hey, bro, you're scared. It's all good. I'm scared, too. We're going to be all right. That's us getting focused right now. And as soon as they recognize that, it's like, oh, okay. Okay. You liberated. I mean, just me hearing you say it, you know, as much as I admire you, you know, it's like.

- It's liberating, you know, and if your team, that's what Joe speaks highly of, you know, your leadership and being the example, you know, a lot of these guys just talking and it's not real life. And so to actually see it, someone you respect and he's still human, it's like, you give them the permission to be human, it's like okay, but I'm not gonna succumb to this, so that's the other side. - Yeah, we're gonna get our gear on and we're gonna go. - There you go, that's good, man.

The masculine male is a slave to his thoughts and emotions. The comprehensive man masters his emotions before his thoughts become toxic. And going on in the pages that follow, we will explore the 10 characteristics of the comprehensive man covering each vital area of a man's life.

I like to think of these characteristics as part of three general themes. The dynamic characteristics call you to take action. The deeper characteristics inspire you to look within and the devotion characteristics focus on your closest relationships. And we're going to jump into some of these. You've got the dynamic characteristics are, you've mentioned some of these already, the fighter, the provider, the leader. Then you get the deeper characteristics, the lover, the nurturer, the gentleman, the friend,

And then finally the devotion characteristics, the husband, the father, the son. And take a look at some of these things here. And I feel like you and I could talk for like weeks. But that's why I get the book because you go into so much detail and it provides different perspectives and different angles of

So for me, that's how you gain understanding of things. You know, you want to learn an arm lock? Cool. Learn the arm lock from the mount. Learn the arm lock from a cross side. Learn the arm lock from the guard. Learn the arm lock from the back.

Each one of those perspectives, you'll understand the arm lock better. And every one of your arm locks will become better than it was before. And that's what I feel like the book does is gives different perspectives on these different characteristics. The first one you talk about here, the fighter, the fighter discerns when to engage and when to walk away. He masters his ego and emotions to ensure he stays in an advantageous position. Boy, is that smart? Yeah. Yeah.

That was my typically we would put quotes at the beginning of each chapter. And I'm like, well, wait a minute. How about putting the definitions for each characteristic at the beginning? And at the end of the book, it becomes a man's creed when he says them all together. Yeah. So this is interesting.

He masters his ego and emotions to ensure he stays in an advantageous position. So you got this, you mentioned it earlier. I didn't cover it. You can get the book. So I can't, I'm not going to read the whole book. But you got this earthquake of emotions. And what you talk about here is anger, right? Anger is kind of the one that bubbles over the surface. For the Hawaiians here, this is like the volcano, the magma, the magma coming out. Lava. Lava. Underneath, so what's leading to the anger? The anger is just what you see. But underneath that is...

distrust lust anxiety it fear loneliness insecurity and I kind of think that if you put ego Underneath all those like what do we fear fearing? We're fearing that we're gonna look bad Why do we distrust because I don't want to get I don't want to be the guy that that that looks like I'm weak over here Lust, what are you trying to prove?

How much of that is just ego trying to prove something? Loneliness. I don't want to be alone. My ego doesn't want to be alone. Insecurity. Clearly ego. So, so many of these things. And I know when it comes to like actually getting in fights with people, if you take away alcohol with ego, there'd be peace. Yeah.

Ego leads to so much. It sure does. I heard you talking on the Joe Rogan podcast about an incident where there was a road rage incident and both the guys had concealed carry and they killed each other. It was a mission. In front of their families. Yeah, they were with their families and not one could disengage. They pull over, arguing, start shooting, kills each other. And I often ask men, I say, look, imagine yourself lying in your own blood.

While looking up at your family crying and you taking your last breath, ask yourself, is it worth it or was it worth it? And it's not. I had to learn many times like, hey, my son is in the car. This is one I'm not going to do. It's not worth it. At the end of the day, it's just not. I tell a story of a bus driver who nearly runs me and Nicole, my wife, off the road.

And I pull up to the side, of course, to see, you know, what's going on, you know. And I see his body language, you know, basically pointing at me. And I know he's using profanity. So I ignore it. Keep going. Point to the ego. We're going to the same shopping mall. He follows us, parks the smart bus and walks aggressively over to my wife and I. I'm armed.

And I know once you cross three feet in my radius, it's a threat to me. Like I have to, I'm not fighting you. There's no jujitsu. I'm killing you. By the way, pause, echo. You're about to hear just the very legit activities going on. Listen to this line because this is great. The book. Go ahead. Yeah. And so he comes over to me and I tell him, I tell him to stop right there. I said, because once you cross this, it's a problem.

And he didn't know I was armed, but I was, my wife is with me and I was gonna, he would have died that day because I'm not grappling with you and my wife is here. Okay. And I'm armed. So anyway, what's interesting to your point, Jocko, about the ego, I had to make sure that was in check because now I wanted to act like a human being because once I have to go to animal mode or lion mode, there is no more conversation. And this wasn't that type of aggression.

For you to stop and I tell you to stop, let me know where I was in this situation. And so we started communicating and I I allowed room for us to be men and humans. And we were able to work through this and shook hands and walked away. And the main thing was knowing that I'm still a man because I didn't try to just completely punk this man out.

Because the old me would have had to be unequivocally Jason was the dog in this situation. But as long as Nicole was protected, I said, you know what? Now it's time for me to practice what I teach. And in that moment, as long as I'm in control, no one's harmed, no one's in danger, let's communicate. One of my boxing coaches will always say, if we always have to go to fighting, we're no different from the animals.

If we can't reason or talk through conflict, you know, like when the last time you seen a movie with two, I guess gangsters or not a gang, just say two men who were in conflict, resolve it verbally. And so again, it goes back to your point, which I love again, how you put the uncle in your book. We need examples of it for our sons to see. And so I was, I was in that moment. I didn't know what was going to happen. This guy was a big fellow walking towards me, but to be able to end there with peace and

was worth it. No one injured and again, people miss, yeah, you're armed now, but if you kill someone, you got money to pay. You see, it's a lot more. You're going to jail instantly. You're going to jail instantly. That's like when you take the concealed carry course out here in California. It's, what is it, a two-day course, Echo Charles? Yeah, two or three. So it's probably, I don't know, 20 hours or 21 hours, let's say. Mm-hmm.

18 of those hours are telling you all the trouble that you're going to get in if you use your weapon. They're trying to let you know what's up. I've been looking for the line in the book. Which one? What you actually said to that guy is like, you're entering my three-foot arc zone of safety, and if you proceed further, it will result in your... Yeah, I did. It was very RoboCop-y. It was like full RoboCop activities. That's kind of like one of those things where...

you know when someone is just very cool calm and collective and you go oh this guy knows my friend Hoyler Gracie he was surfing you know he's Hoyler Gracie yes yeah and some guy started talking smack to him you know out in the water and Hoyler said hey man I surf for fun I fight for a living if you want to go to the beach let me know the guy's like I think I'm good

Well, yeah, that's in the fighter chapter. Actually, I think that's in the gentleman chapter after I talk about the alpha male. Yeah, it is in the gentleman chapter. We'll find it. We'll find it when we get there. Next section. Next characteristic. The provider. The provider ensures the provision of essential resources, guidance, and support for his family, friends, community, and himself.

So that's what we're doing. We miss the himself, though. A lot of us do as men. We don't provide for ourselves. And that's what makes it living miserable when somebody everyone is living off the fruit of our labor and we don't take care of ourselves and was deep. How many times have you heard wives encourage husbands to go on vacations or trips with their boys and we don't?

You know, we think that we got to worry about terrorists breaking in the house. We got to hold down the fort. You know, it's like my wife, they have girls trips. She's literally like, look, I plan it. Don't worry about anything. Get three of your friends. Get out of here. And a recent study said that for our mental health, men need at least two hang nights a week because we don't do it.

we're stuck in performance mode. - Must've trained in jiu-jitsu. - Yeah, it's true. - It's part of it. - 100%. - Oh yeah, no, that's the camaraderie that we talked about earlier. It's very important, yeah. But even outside of jiu-jitsu, you still need that time. - The crazy thing is, especially if you train with Echo Charles, you're gonna get hang time. This guy over here, hey look, you get a solid hour of training. You get a solid hour.

He's like a one to one ratio. He's wanting to tell you about all kinds of things going on. But I'm here for you, bro. - We're here for each other. - That's part of our thing. - But that's what I loved about the jujitsu community. It was different from a lot of the arts I had trained in. The camaraderie was just-- - Oh yeah. The intimacy of jujitsu. Like I can say this. You know how you just bro hug people?

I did not do that until jujitsu. It wasn't part of my thing. It was like, no, like, hey, dude, you keep your distance. It was kind of like, hey, you're entering my arc of safety if you get in here. But once you change jujitsu, three foot zone. You're entering my three foot zone. Do not proceed. Oh, my goodness. That's real, though? Yeah, there's a lot of men like that. Like that.

To this day. Yeah. Oh My good next one the land by the way, you have so much each one of these is a chapter I'm kind of skimming through it here. Next one's the leader the leader guides and inspires others He knows when to speak and when to listen leading by example not intimidation One of the notes that you made in this section was I think this is important thing to talk about You can't save everyone and

This is a heavy burden, especially like, so the first book I wrote is called Extreme Ownership. And that is a very heavy burden to bear, right? When you're in a leadership position, you own everything. And so some people, they'll interpret that as, you know, Echo Charles works for me. I'm responsible for his actions. I take ownership of everything he does. Totally true.

So what do you do when Echo is not showing up to work? He's showing up to work late. He's not accomplishing his job. Well, you take ownership of that. Hey, Echo, did I make this clear to you? Hey, Echo, do you need more training? Hey, Echo, is everything going okay at home? Like, is there anything else you need from me? Do you need more resources so you can get the job? All those things. But eventually you can have someone that does not belong in that position. You can have someone that you for all, you can't save them.

And then the priority of the team takes precedence over the priority of one individual because now I'm dedicating all my time and effort and focus on echo and I'm not paying attention to the rest of the team and by the way, he's letting the whole team down and now we're not getting the jobs that we were Trying to get you know, we were putting bids in on jobs, but it was cost us a little bit more We were performing late they get bad Yelp review because echo didn't see what I'm saying. Hmm So you can't save everyone same thing, you know when you're interacting with other people. Mm-hmm

And I know in your position, you've got story upon story of people that couldn't save. - Yeah, and especially with the students that come and you don't reach them all, and I would stay up late and overextending myself going over the house and trying to help the parent resolve an issue with their son.

And I learned I was reading the scriptures when Yeshua or Jesus was Mary poured the oil on his head and the disciples were upset because they could have sold it. It was expensive to feed those in need. And Yeshua, he said that the poor will always be with you, but I will not. So Mary was there in the moment. She knew what she was doing, but the disciples weren't. They were thinking about the cost.

What I learned and took from that teaching as well is that there will always be boys in need. There will be. But am I in the moment? Am I teaching to those he wants me to teach in that moment? Because some will leave, just like if I'm a shepherd, I will leave the 99 to go after the one. But I can't neglect the 99. And as a youth worker or a minister or leader, and you really care and you're working with the kids,

Sometimes you think it's your fault that they made that mistake that liberated me like, no, I gave you everything you needed. You made that mistake, but I'll still be here for you. And so now I can go to bed when I need to go to bed. I tell them I'm a teach you. I'm gonna give you everything you want. I actually do an analogy where I take an empty glass and I grab a pitcher of water for every new group that starts. I say this glass represents you.

This picture and its contents, the picture represents me and the contents, this water represents the love, the discipline, the sacrifice, my commitment and other qualities that I'm going to pour into you. So then I start filling the cup up all the way to the brim right when it's about to spill over. And I put the pitcher down and I asked the class, what has to happen now for me to pour more water into this glass?

And then I looked and said, well, we have to drink it. I said, exactly what I used to do. I would keep pouring. And now all of my effort is wasted until you drink everything that I give you in here. I can't pour anymore. And if you leave with this full cup, that's on you. You can always come back, but I don't worry anymore. I pray for you. But there's another boy that just came in as you walked out.

That's the importance of me being in the moment because there will always be someone in need. I understand that now.

It's not my job to save everyone, but save the ones that come in and those that I can. I can lose myself and my family in the process of going after who he doesn't want me to go after. Yeah, that's a perfect metaphor. And it's the same thing. You know, when I was just talking about Echo, I'm pouring water into Echo, give you more training, you know, sit down with you, give you counseling, mentor you. But eventually, if you're not drinking that water, you're

I can't help you anymore. No, you can't. Echo, well, no, not Echo, but the person that we're trying to talk to. Metaphorical Echo. Echo. You know, he would cause more harm to the whole mission, you know? And so, unfortunately, you have to learn to allow people to leave, you know, and develop and trust that what you've poured into them will come, you know, full circle. Yeah. Yeah, man. Getting into part two here, the deeper characteristics of,

And this one starts off with the lover. Echo Charles. Yes, sir. Just checking. Does it make it sure you're with me? The lover knows that love is demonstrated through action, devotion to y'all, loving his neighbors and maintaining his own well being. And this was to highlight one section of this. You talk about love.

On the last podcast, you mentioned that you don't talk about self-love. You talk about maintenance, which is a more approved term we can use as men. A more approved, improved, manly term we got going on there. So you talk about that in here. Yes.

Preserve energy and time. Declining allows you to channel your resources into activities that truly matter. Gain respect for boundaries. Saying no establishes healthy boundaries and garners respect from others. So there's a movie right now. I haven't seen it yet. It's about Elvis Presley. Have you seen it? It's called Elvis. And my wife watched it, but she said it was heartbreaking because...

Elvis was Elvis and everyone's is taken from Elvis they just took from him took from him and took from him and took from him and You know he they fed him the drugs that he needed to keep him going they gave him the bad food They kept him, you know sedated. They got him up on stage. They pushed him out on stage They took they took they took they took and it was just a terrible story and

that, that, that's, you know, it's kind of like what you're talking. I mean, you could lose your family trying to help kids, trying to help other people. You have to set some boundaries. Um, so I didn't know that about him. Yeah. Yeah. Seems like a common thing for celebrity singers and entertainers. Michael Jackson was similar. Yeah. Yeah. That's unfortunate, man. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. It's, I think especially, you know, these, these, uh,

When you're a young artist and you get an opportunity and you sign that contract, especially in the old days, you know, these people would sign contracts and they'd give away everything and they would get nothing in return. Well, they think they'd be getting something in return, but they would get totally worked over. They would get the fame, but not the fortune. Yeah.

Enhance well-being, avoiding situations that generate stress or discomfort, nurtures your mental and emotional well-being. Your choice not to attend to matters because your decision directly impacts your own experience. - Yeah, a lot of people I was talking to, how do you turn it down? Like when you get the money, you get the success,

And people invite you to come to an event and they try to make you feel guilty for not attending. I'm like, well, if your event isn't a success because I'm not there, maybe you don't need to have the event. You know, I'm serious. It's like I'm tired. I need to be with my family. I need to recover. And I don't see my name on the flyer, you know, so.

i have no guilt anymore telling people i can't go you know and then people who are demanding like well i need an answer now well my wife will tell you that's going to be no because if you're rushing me oh i'm it's best to say no because i say yes i'm gonna commit to it i said oh no you need to answer now oh it's no because i've had time to really process it and make sure it's a good decision for me you know it's like

I'm over it, man. It's like you're not pressing me into anything anymore. You know, everyone had a saying, don't get caught up in everyone's calling because you could miss your calling from him. You know, and it's like when you're when you're popular, you seem like you have the antidote to so much. You're good. It's like a natural resource until they wear you out. Then they go on to the next and to the next.

I'm okay, man. I work my way out from my home. I don't need the accolades from people and none of that. It means it's encouraging, but I know accolades are like the breeze. It's going to go. All glory is fleeting. It is. It is. But when you...

your family who really love you and for who you really are. I work from that space, you know, like a woman couldn't, there's not one woman who could flirt with me and compliment me more than my wife has. So it means it literally is like, I see you coming from a mile away. I already heard this. I already felt this. My kids tell me how great you are, dad.

Get me a plaque, greatest dad. It's in my office. Like that hangs up none of my awards. That's in my office to keep me locked in. And that's what matters, man. When we're old men, I tell all these men, like building all these buildings for corporations. When we're sitting on our front porch, 70, 80 years old, those buildings are going to forget us. Those people are going to forget us. Only thing will be on our hearts and mind is, is my wife next to me. And where are the kids? Mm hmm.

Nothing else matters, man. It just doesn't. It's vain attempts for affirmation that many men seek because they didn't get it. Then when they get it now, they're stuck in a performance cycle and their lives are misery. And it's just not worth it. Just pull back. Like you say, reset. We see the problem is reset. This isn't the life. This isn't the path. Acknowledge what's going on for real. You know what you didn't get. And let's do something about it.

And that's why, you know, your books on leadership is important because we think we know how to lead, but we don't.

A lot of it is an intimidation. It is do what I say. - Oh yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah, real leadership is very counterintuitive. Your instinct is, well if I want my kid to do something, I just bark orders at them and they better do it. It's like, nope, that's not the way it works. It's not the way it works with your kids, not the way it works with your team, with work, with friends. - Ryan, the guy Ryan made, I told you, was psychologist for the Seals.

He told me, and I never forgot this, 'cause Shalom has high anxiety when we, my from the last episode. He has high anxiety on car rides, you know? And he said when he would train dogs, the thing they would teach is never let the stress go down the leash. - Oh yeah. - I said, hmm. And so it made me ponder, does Shalom feel any anxiety from in our home, when I'm in the car?

am i anxious now because he's going crazy or am i staying still so now just recently i stayed calm i made him stay in his seat so everything's cool and it worked and i know this because of what i do but when you have a dog going crazy in your car you lose it for that moment but then like wait a minute i'm the leader here i gotta set the tone and as men we want to be respected and treated as leaders

But then we miss the moment when it requires for us to really lead. We start looking at what everyone else isn't doing instead of getting in the mirror. Say, like you said, what am I doing? Am I giving you this? Are you do you have the right tools for this as a father? Am I patient? Did I really ask him? Did I offend him? Am I really present, son? Is there anything else that could be doing more of that will make your life better? Those are things leaders do.

and it requires for you to sit there, like you say, and listen, and don't judge your children like, what do you need? Dad, I would love for you to be more intentional. Put the phone down when you come home. I advise men, if you're feeling a disconnection, leave the phones at home and go for a walk. And they always come back like, well, my relationship with my daughter or son is completely different now. Because in that moment, if you're Jocko,

Everyone knows you. You're literally telling your children, I stopped this world for you and we're going to walk in this slow. We're not getting around this block anytime soon. And that means a world to the children and to the staff and to echo when he's out here. Yeah.

Prioritize self-maintenance. Not now allows you to prioritize your needs, enabling you to recharge and show up more fully later in areas you select, including those connected to your family, job, and more. Promote authenticity. Embracing refusal fosters authenticity.

as you live in alignment with your purpose. Open opportunities. Saying no to the wrong opportunities creates space for the right ones. Strength and confidence. Asserting your choices boosts your confidence and reaffirms your independence from the desires and urgencies of others. - Oh boy. - Yeah. - What's that sign they hang up? Like your lack of planning doesn't create, doesn't mean my emergency-- - Yeah, something like that, yeah. - Doesn't constitute an emergency emergency. - Yeah, that's what it is. - Exactly.

The next one, the nurturer. The nurturer cultivates growth and development, caring for individuals and environments within their influence and beyond. How does this play a role? - Major, especially, I use myself as an example.

As far as nurturing with the boys that I work with, that also entails me nurturing their parents. Everyone that's involved in that child's life. I can't tell you how many mothers have cried literally in my arms for giving them the opportunity to just be mom. Because now I say, look, if the father is inactive in his life, let us be that.

'Cause he needs you to be mom. He needs the nurturing side. And that's where the disconnect comes with so many single mothers, is because they have to now become part of dad.

The son doesn't need that from mom. I can say in those situations he does need it, but he desires the nurturing and the love of mom. Majority of fights happen not because kids talk about our dads. It says something about mom, right? Why? Not because mom was a disciplinarian. It's because mom was loving, caring, always gave me second and third chances.

The other guy that was dad, you know, and so deliberate them to nurture mom and then also nurture dad along through the process to bringing. I've had so many beautiful moments where sons and fathers can reconcile literally fathers in different states because of the popularity of the cave of a Delham. And what I do, they come. Then I slowly reel them in and nurture them. I understand. Empathetic. What's your story?

I never met a father who wasn't actively in his son's life or daughter's life that didn't love him. There was always a story. So to be a great coach, you got to be a great nurturer. The greatest coaches coach beyond the physical aspect of what you're doing. You get into the head, you get into their lives like you.

Green Bay's legendary coach Vince Lombardi. It was more than football. It was life. And that's what's missing from coaching. And a part in there, I talk about comprehensive coaching. I got it right here. Highlight. Yeah. You got to do more, especially now, because a lot of the athletes, their entire lives are visible now.

And so now you're not only dealing with their parents and what they've been through, you're dealing with the social media aspect and the NIL and everything else. Like, how can you help this kid process these things? And lastly, when I'm speaking, I was at Damian Lillard's camp, Formula Zero, which was really cool. And to hear these young boys, he had the top 40 recruits in the country.

And to hear them express this pressure of having to put on or put up for mom, basically make to the NBA so the family be taken care of. I help them by nurturing them through that moment. Like, look, I understand the pressure, but I need you to be, again, to our point in the previous podcast, I need you to be 16-year-old Tommy, 17-year-old Tommy, 13-year-old Tommy.

You're not supposed to provide for them. They're supposed to provide for you. And I asked him, I said, do you think you were created to play basketball? And they look at me, they were like, no, no one's ever asked me that. So where is this pressure coming from? You can't do this forever. You created to do more than that. That comes from a nurturing spirit to be present and caring.

Doesn't mean I'm coddling them or won't push them. That's nurturing as well. I love you so much that I'm a sacrifice my body, which is I'm in great pain to make sure you get this lesson today. I have had my kids. They can't I can't hit my students. Y'all can hit me because I need you to feel what it feels like to be powerful, to get past your fears. It's scripture says faithful are the wounds of a friend.

So I'm your friend. I love you. I take yours, though, for you. That's nurturing as well. And so when we get past the nurturing is exclusive to women and really look at what it is, it's a great quality that makes us great leaders. And if more leaders, world leaders especially, led even from the principles of your book, this world would be better. If leaders could show some empathy and says, you know what? I'm not going to bomb that city.

I need to meet with the leader again because there's so many people lives at risk because of this decision is rooted in wanting to make sure I'm seen a certain way that I'm not taking advantage of. So, again, nurturing looks different for men. And that's why I say this world is in dire need of a nurturing love from a man because it's different from a woman. It's strong, but yet it's gentle. It's safe. There's peace there.

And that's why I really stress the point of men being nurturers and not being milk sop, but being a nurturer. That's an interesting thing that I would try and explain to young leaders in the military. So when you join the military in a leadership role, they tell you take care of your people, take care of your people, take care of your people, take care of your people, take care of your people. It's beat into your head, but people misconstrue what that means. And it's the same thing that you're talking about.

Taking care of your people doesn't mean coddling them. It doesn't mean what you call it a milk. What'd you call it? Milk sop. Milk sop. It's like you soak bread in the milk and it's just like you take the salt. That is not good. That is not taking care of your people. No, it's not. Taking care of your people is pushing them. It is making sure that they have discipline. It is making sure that they're well trained. It is make sure that they are not in their comfort zone. That is discipline.

form if not the form of nurture so what you did for the young man who was scared kept using the restroom yeah yeah you you you went where he was says look we all scared right now that's nurturing you helping to develop him to get past that moment and that's what's wild you know as I was thinking about your the idea of scaling the cave

Trying to get other people to understand how to read a young kid that's going through because I put so I work with leaders and I go to work with a construction company. I go to work with a finance company I got to work with an insurance company I go to work with a manufacturing company the leaders the questions that I'm gonna get asked they all have the same roots So I'm assuming that in your role as a

When you see a kid start to cry, you're like, oh, it's gonna be one of these three things. You're not being jerk, you're not listening to them, but you're like, okay, this kid's got, oh, he's mentioned that, he's gonna go here. And you learn how to interact with people in a certain way. You can pull the string, you can get to the root of the problem, and you have a solution there.

Like you tell me a problem, you got a problem with one of your employees or you got a problem with your boss. I can start pulling the thread. And it's almost like you remember those choose your own adventure books. It was books. It was like you. If you want to go left, go to page 20. If you want to go right, go to page 19. Yes. So I feel like when I'm talking to someone that's in a leadership position, I'm basically just just pulling the thread and I'm going to. Is it left or right? Oh, it's right. OK. You have you have an employee that has a bad attitude. Is he how long has he been with you?

A year. Okay, cool. So you don't know him that well now what's your relationship like do you know him well or not? Really? Not really Okay, so you don't spend money and I can kind of just narrow it down and and eventually go hey You know what you need to do is build a relationship with that person give them some more responsibilities So they feel like they're more valuable and they go, okay, I'll give that a try and it works So I'm sure that you have that as well. Yes with these kids That's gonna be a hard thing to scale but but it

I do believe that it is scalable. I do believe that you can train people where they go, where they can identify problems and they can move through and they'll be able to help these kids out. Yes, I do. And that's one of the reasons I wrote this book as well, because that would be the trainer trainer manual as well. So if you can navigate through all 10 of those, you understand pretty much all that a young boy is going to deal with.

And you got to go do it. You got to do it. But that's my I have I have things in place where I can test teachers with kids and see how you respond. And I need a kid. David, I gave you one hundred and fifty dollars to not listen to this instructor today. I want to see how he responds.

We do a lot of that too. We do a lot of role play. Yes, sir. It's like, oh, trust me, I can be the most combative employee you've ever met. You're like, and I'm good. You know? Like, you got all your little leadership solutions. I got answers for all those that are going to make things worse. That's excellent. But yeah, so you mentioned this story

The five C's of comprehensive coaching, just great stuff. Constructive approach, character development, cognitive performance, compassionate communications, Christ-centered. These are just solid things that I think will really help people out as they try and move through this. Moving to the next one, the gentleman. The gentleman exudes respect for others and himself through deliberate and appropriate etiquette without compromising his values.

And this idea of etiquette goes back to something we talked about on the last podcast, which is protocols. Like there is a protocol that people don't learn for this interaction with a person that you've just met for the first time. This interaction as you go into an office and you're wanting help. This protocol when you sit down in the book, you lay out etiquette at dinner. Those are the kind of things that...

We don't have protocols for, and it's not good. It's not good. I, uh, the reason I, well, I had experience with my dad. He would pick me up on Mondays. That was his quarter point at date, a day for us to spend time together. Uh, make a long story short, you know, we went to my favorite restaurant at the time, red lobster. And I had no idea when we were eating that I wasn't practicing good dining etiquette. He never taught me. So he drops me off at my mother's house and, uh,

I'm thinking everything was good. Then about maybe 10 to 15 minutes later, I hear my mother yelling and arguing with someone. I go in her room. I say, mom, what's going on? She said, that was your dad. He was upset at me for not teaching you how to eat at the table. So as a young boy, that hurt me because I'm in the car with you. You didn't say a word. I'm at dinner with you. You didn't teach me. But yet you condemn me to my mother who you thought she should teach your son how to eat correctly at the table.

And so that wound, once I was able to heal it, I said I'm going to create a training for young men that they'll never have to go through that. And dining etiquette is so important. Jocko, I can't tell you how many jobs I got when I was in construction, just how I presented myself at the business dinner.

Or at breakfast, one job I got is funny. I'm with a contractor and I have my portfolio. We didn't have iPhones back then. We had literally pictures with us. And I forgot I hadn't washed my hands. My food, it came, I already cut my pancakes. I said, excuse me, I need to go wash my hands. So I go to the restroom, wash my hands, come back, and I'm going to show my portfolio. And he says, no, I don't need to see your work. You got the job. I'm like...

"How do you give me the job when you haven't seen my work?" And he points to my pancake. He says, "Anyone who cuts their pancakes like this can cut my towel." And when I looked down, they were symmetrically cut. Like a pie chart, literally. And I had no idea the practice had became a part of who I was. And I have young kids who go off to college, they would get scholarships solely off how they conducted themselves at the dining table.

And they would text me, Mr. Wilson, it works. I just got a $5,000 scholarship or $10,000 scholarship because that's where a lot of business is done. How many of our sons, when they want to go on their first date or finally maybe take the woman out of their dreams, and one of the greatest intimidations for a lot of men is, what do I do with this silverware? Right.

How do I enter the table, exit the table? You know, which fork is for what? I mean, it's a lot there. But I love teaching it from a combat perspective as well. So when we teach them how to hold the knife and the fork, we actually use it like it's training. And so the kids love it and they learn how to balance the knife and the fork here. Put your index finger at the neck of the fork. And when they cut on the test, we have tough pita bread and they can't scratch the plate.

So I'm teaching them. What is it like a paper plate or you just mean audio wise? Audio wise. I don't want to hear any scraping of the plate. Once you cut, take your time to cut it up and use that fork to control that piece of pita bread. And then you got to cut it into four pieces. So now if you have a steak, I don't have to worry about you butchering it at the table. You know how to use your utensils and how to eat correctly. And you know, the napkin placement, how do you, do you fold it or do you just throw it up there when you have to go use the restroom? Yeah.

And the confidence these young boys get and then the fathers who are looking like, hey, I need to do some of this training as well. And it's more than just about the dining experience. It's about the social gathering as well because a lot of our children are disconnected. They don't know how to communicate because they use their phones. And so with our dining etiquette trainings, they can't have their phones at the table. And they're graded upon conversation as well. Like, can you make a conversation better?

entertaining or engaging. And it's really a beautiful thing to see when kids get the epiphany like, I don't need my phone to communicate because this is what real life is, you know. Depends on what circles you're in.

And so that's the gentleman, especially the chivalry piece. You know, it's very important to teach our boys how to be respectful and kind, not just to women, but elderly people as well. You know, for me, I have affinity for the elderly care because of me caring for my mother. But, you know, I think every man, if you're strong, you should be the protector of those who are weak.

And same thing with women. You're not pandering to them. It's a code of honor. Literally, chivalry was a code of honor for medieval knights like

How did we let that go to your point in the last podcast? In this book, The Way of the Warrior Kid, at one point the uncle says, you know, if you want to be a warrior, you got to go and research what being a warrior actually is. And so he goes and he goes and researches in the library and he gets the Navy SEAL code, the Ranger Creed code.

he gets the Bushido code or the, what is it? The seven Bushido characteristics. And he has the, the Viking code in there and he's got the chivalry, the code of chivalry in there, all those different things. And then, and then he assembles his own code. And this is another thing that's in the book is, uh,

He doesn't get issued a code from his uncle. His uncle doesn't say you're a warrior kid. This is how a warrior kid behaves He takes all those ideas and he applies them into his life and then he comes up with his own warrior kid code This is how I'm gonna live You know, it's so back to the book a little bit as I was reading this section, right? it's talking about, you know dressing nice and tucking your shirt in and all this stuff and

and I'm super laid back. Like, you can see me, shorts and flip-flop, that's what I wear. T-shirt, short, flip-flop, that's kind of my thing. And I was kind of like, oh, you know, I can't really relate to that. And then it just, I'm so, it's so crazy because I am...

So particular about like I have a consulting company asked on front This is the uniform like this is what you're gonna wear. We all wear it you like shave you have a haircut you you have you know the the pants the belt the Polo shirt the black t-shirt like it's all it's all a thing and what's funny is in the military I was very strict about how my guys looked and

Making sure that they were wearing the proper uniforms making sure that they were in uniform things and then there's this old saying and I realized that you know you get a lot of You get a lot of your DNA When you're in your first seal platoon and you get a lot of your DNA from like hearing from the older guys in the seal platoons well when I was a young seal one of the mantras back then was

Avoid wearing a uniform at all costs. I mean, avoid wearing your full Navy uniform at all costs. But if you have to wear it, look perfect.

And that is exactly, I want to wear a t-shirt and surf shorts and sandals. But when it's time to go to work, I'm going to look as squared away as I possibly can. And that's what my mentor, I talked about in that chapter, he was wise. He said, why isn't your shirt tucked in? And I'm like, I don't need to wear my shirt tucked in. I'm just chilling. I'm just going to. And he just looked at me and kept continuing to write. And he's a multimillionaire, very successful. Yeah.

And when I went to go for this estimate. Note to self. Exactly. I said, you know, I'm going to tuck my shirt in. I'm going to tuck my shirt in this time. I got a contract I had never gotten in that area in Michigan. And the guy said it was my presentation. My hat was embroidered. My logo was embroidered.

I didn't have my work boots on for estimates. I had two sets of boots, one for work and one for estimates. Had a tape measure for work, tape measure for estimates. When I'm in these multi-million dollar homes, you don't want thin set falling off while you're measuring in the kitchen countertops. So I learned like this is scale. And even one of my mentors, when it took me a little bit longer to get into like what this is really about, he knew I love martial arts. He says,

i'ma tell you this he says you're wearing the wrong armor to the fight he says you're the circles you're in now you need to look a certain way for right now then you get to the level of steve jobs you can wear a t-shirt and leave eyes and you go back again yeah he said but until you get there wear the right armor for the fight and it was a major difference in all of my networking and business dealings it it changed a lot and i you know i tell the young boys they wear they do rags in public and i say well

what's the original intent of this durag? Where is it meant to be worn? They said, home, shiraf. They called me that. It's the sensei. Shiraf in Hebrew means servant. I said, well, why do you have it on in here? And even with my son with the dishwasher, that's his thing there. Like he doesn't wash dishes. He just throws them in the dishwasher. And I'm looking for like utensils or dishes. Like where is everything? They're in the dishwasher. I'm like, okay, stop. Wait a minute.

Do you live in a bathtub? He says, of course not. I say the dishwasher is not the proper place to store the dishes. This this equipment is meant to wash everything. When it's done, you take everything out and put it where it belongs in the cabinets. I'm a trip at home. So that's why we could talk forever because I see where like. But it's like I'm not wrong. That's the inventor of this did not make this dishwasher for dishes to be stored.

So let's use it for what it's for. And so it's funny when you talk to kids in a way that's respectful and then like encouraging to really think a little deeper, they change, you know? And so that's, what's really cool. And especially like flip flops. Like we went to, you know, Andy for seller, right? So that's my guy. So he sponsored the cave to come out to first form. Um,

i say on the note for the parents no slides flip-flops none of that you can't wear any of that why i said well first and foremost from a combat perspective i would love for you to have on some slides trying to fight me okay secondly you're not lounging where we're going and so andy and his team at first formally did an amazing job with us showing them the business side of how things are done and when they were finished they were like wow

So you do have us put the chair under the table for a reason. Like that's where it belongs. Did you see anything out of order in first form? The dumbbells, even the way they're turned, everything is lined up perfectly. There's nothing wrong with that. It depends on where and who you want to be around in life. And so it's a certain criteria. I mean, you come to our building, it's spotless.

Our kids like, no, this is how it's supposed to be. It's not supposed to be dirty. My car is clean. My kids will say, Mr. Wilson, whenever your car is ever dirty, I say, when should it be dirty?

You're saying it like I'm wrong for keeping it clean. My car should stay clean if I can help it. You know, so those are principles with teaching. You see a mark on the wall. Wipe it off. It doesn't belong there. Or the kids who all our kids do all the janitorial work of the building. We pay them instead of outsourcing it to a janitorial company. It's one wall in our cold plunge room. For some reason, they keep hitting my wall with the tools.

And I said, you know what? This is the last time I said, because this isn't making sense. All of you are teenagers. You're not paying attention. I said, I'm not going to paint this wall dark so that you can continue to doing something not the correct way. I said, so the next time I have to patch this wall and paint it, it's coming out of your check. I said, because there's no reason for you to keep nicking my wall up. The principle is what? Attention to detail.

Stay focused. What is causing you to jam hit my, are you rushing? You shouldn't be rushing because we have enough time allotted for everything to be done in excellence.

And so they're missing the Jockos of the world, the Echos, myself, in the everyday environment. When they don't see it, they can't be it. And then you wonder why communities look the way they do because it's an absence of us or men who could be on that level. They just need the nurturing or the coaching. And then they got to have the application to do it. But yeah, man, it's all about I'm just like you, man. Like everything...

I mean, on the table, everything is lined up. If you meet my wife, she'll tell you like, oh, he next level. So your car clean, everything, my home. When you walk in and we had a guy come out because we saw some bugs come in.

he looked on the floor he was like was definitely not from your house not being clean he says the cleanest house I've ever been to in my life like what do you who cleans it I said I do it's a principle I like my home in order you know and um when you show boys that way without condemning them and they they take to my son my daughter does it now they were fighting it their whole childhood but um

It's worth it, man. It's worth modeling it and seeing the results even better, man. What'd you do when your daughter had the dirty room? That's when I didn't understand. I was just a masculine male. I thought it was disrespectful. I would yell, why can't you do what I need to be done? I'm always the one got to clean up around here. And I missed, completely missed all that she was going through in middle school.

And I remember one time when I knew something was wrong, I went to help her with running track, you know, so I surprised her at the school. And I'm just trying to help, you know, teach the kids how to run. She comes in a circle with all her friends and me and yells, why are you here? I want what you shouldn't even be here. And that crushed me. And so I was in her space, you see, but I hadn't developed to your point, the relationship. I wanted it, but I overstepped my bounds.

Because she didn't really, she looked at that action of love as me being protective dad, trying to make sure everything is correct. But it was deep, Jocko, when she came, I had to go back into school because she had forgot something. She had already been in the car with Nicole. I get back in the car. I said, I found that everything is good. And when I turned back around, I hear her burst out into tears. And she just started crying. She said, Daddy, I'm so sorry. I was so mean to you earlier.

And I couldn't meet the moment. I didn't know what to say because I wasn't tapped into my emotions. I wasn't emotionally intelligent. I say, it's OK, baby, I understand. But I should have dug deeper than like what triggered that. What did that do to trigger that response? I don't blame you for that. That came from somewhere. And I missed that. And that's what I give men in this book. It's like you have it. You just got to tap in.

Tap into your humanity, what you feel. Stop fearing that. Your kids need all of you, not just a protector and provider. So now that I'm able to give my daughter that, I mean, she's 29 now.

I wish I could go back, but I can't. So I don't linger there. I just make the most of where I am now. I want to be more present with my son. I know I could even do even more. Like, what does that take? Can you give me my report card today? Where's dad at on intentionality? Where's dad at with patience? Where's dad at with understanding and seeking you out? You know, where am I at? You know, and that's what's really important, man, right now. And so many men, uh,

They want it, but because of the way we were raised, they fear being that way. Like it's somehow will make them vulnerable, susceptible to harm or being mistreated or impassively dismissed. And so the comprehensive man, he's courageous, but also compassionate, strong, but sensitive. He lives from the good of his heart instead of the fear of how he'll be perceived. He's authentically human. And that's what I want for men, you know, stay strong,

But when a moment requires you to be sensitive, be sensitive. Echo Charles. Yes. Your daughter's room is not clean. What's your protocol? I asked her to clean the room. She doesn't clean it. Discipline or freedom. Like the shirt said. Discipline equals freedom. Okay, she cleans it, but then the next day, two days later, it's dirty again. Yeah, clean your room again. Are you asking me hypothetically? Like, I don't know. Like in real life? In real life, yeah. Yeah, we say clean the room.

I say clean the room, she cleans the room. And then, but, but like a couple of days later, it's dirty again. You say, say, clean it again. Yeah.

Yeah. What about now? The room cleaning thing is not an issue, I don't think. She keeps it clean? In the house. No, not constant clean, but yeah, she'll mess it up for sure, 100%. But even your response now, after this conversation, and it's dirty, say, back to back, you know, in one week, you still just say, clean your room? Well, I think there's a bigger picture here, especially if we're drawing comparisons. So I'm not as squared away as you are, so I allow a lot more slack with the room cleaning scenario. But yes, like if one day, let's say, see,

Nothing's really going on right now. And we'll say, and then I see the room messy. And then I'll be like, okay, yeah, okay, we got to clean the room. She got to clean the room. She cleans the room.

so i don't think ever in her 11 and a half years she's always been like no or i will and then not you know whatever you know yeah um she's always cleaning the room but then let's say i don't know what like every day it's back dirty all the time or whatever yeah i don't think that's ever happened um even if it did i don't think i'd i'd make a bit i would make a big deal not even making a big deal but ask her why

You know what I mean? Like literally sit in a room and say, hey baby, you know, mom and dad expects the room to be clean, but we're noticing that it's becoming dirty more frequently. Like, is anything going on personally? And she may not share. I'm just saying that, you know, there's a cause and effect for every behavior. And of course, you know, no parent should be like I was as dogmatic about keeping a room clean. Make that unequivocally clear.

I'm saying let's not miss the signs that are there. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying a dirty room always equates to something going on in her life that's stressful. But for her not to hear...

a request of a parent, like my son's room stays clean a lot, doesn't mean that he's impervious to drama at school or stress. The clean room doesn't equate to your kid. That's all I'm saying. Are you willing to dive a little deeper emotionally? I'm willing and do dive very deeply emotionally with both my kids for various reasons. I think you're right though. When I say...

different comparisons have to be drawn or whatever, since I'm not as squared away or let's say it's not as high on the priority list as far as like, Hey, room needs to be clean. Like the default should be clean. Right. That's kind of my, I'm like,

It can look if it's freaking super speaking span. Hey, big up to you for doing it. If it's not, it's not going to move me either way. If it's chronically dirty or unsanitary or something like this, then OK, I'm going to say something about it. And then I'm going to gauge how what's her reaction. Same saying in her reaction typically or.

100% of the time is positive. Like she's never talked back. She's never whatever. I mean, she's a very nice girl. But yeah, I think it does start with me as one of the many lessons we've learned today. It starts with me and kind of my, for lack of a better term, standard as far as just cleanliness in general. And it applies to other things. You know, it was deep I share transparently where mine came from, this desire for everything in order.

It was my dad, you know. He yelled at me, cursed at me because I had a hairbrush on the kitchen table. I didn't know it was unsanitary. Instead of teaching me why, he just yelled at me.

And as a result, that room turned into, hmm, this means you don't respect me. But my daughter's room would be cluttered, closet packed with clothes. And understanding psychology now, there's a direct correlation to a lot of that. It is. And so a lot of times we miss that as parents because we're busy. We have a lot going on. But nothing's more important than that. And that's why I always go back to, Jason, what can you live with?

could you live with being a successful author but a failure as a dad no no no I'd rather be a failure as an author and successful as a dad 100% so that's cool man you you're locked in with your daughters and how old are you now 47 47 yeah and you know how

How old are your children? You said seven? My son is eight. Eleven, right? Yeah, my daughter is eleven. Okay, awesome. Yeah, that's good, man. Yeah. If I could go back, that would be my thing. I would sit in a dirty room with her and talk, you know, like what's going on. And that's what I missed. Yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah.

- This is one of the many, many, many, many things that will come up with the children. But it's such a common one, right? And then you gotta, for me it was always like, for me now, how do I prioritize the relationship? And hey, your room is messy. How much leadership capital am I willing to expend? 'Cause you know what? If your room is messy, I'll shut the door.

My house isn't messy. My house is clean. Now, if you have plates and hands in there, then I will take the plates and I will put them on your bed. Face down, right? Possibly. No, but I wouldn't really do that. I've done that a couple times. Not regularly. But for me, it's like I want to give my kids as much freedom as I can

And I want to treat them in a way where they are responsible for what's going on in their world. Case in point, if you got a bunch of clothes on your floor, I know those clothes didn't make it into the hamper and I know that I'm not getting washed. So you're going to run out of laundry. So eventually that kid, whether they're eight, 10, 12, they go, Oh, if I want to have clean clothes, I need to move the clothes from the floor to the hamper, to the laundry. Otherwise they're not getting cleaned. Now I will say this little,

My wife will go in there, pick up the clothes, put them in the, clean them, fold them up, put them back. This is why we get along so much. My wife, if my son doesn't bring a lunch to school, Jay, little Jay doesn't have lunch at school. I'm like, can he learn today? He's not going to die. I promise you he's not going to starve to death. My wife would be scolding my son about not cleaning the dishes while she's literally cleaning the dishes that he didn't clean. Yeah.

And I'd say, darling, it's funny. My wife would go on a trip somewhere. My wife, you know, she cooking dinner, cook, making lunches, cleaning everything. Just awesome. When she goes away, I didn't do any of that stuff. Kids did every, the kids will do everything. Like they'll make the dinner, clean the dinner, clean. They do everything. The laundry sweep, clean. Everything's like that. But you just have to like give them that void to make that stuff. Absolutely. Uh,

So yeah, I would say parenting it's like, you know, look if your kids are room is unsanitary for sure or if it's a danger to Firefighters that might have to come in there like that you can brief your kids on they can understand why hey I'm not just it's just not me because I'm a weird OCD neat freak Yeah, no Hey a firefighters got to come in here and they're tripping over stuff and there's fire like that's gonna be terrible You can't have stuff on your floor. Mm-hmm like

you can't have stuff on your floor. Boom, you know, you can kind of explain that. They can understand the why. But if all you do is, you know, impose your standard of the way you want things, that takes a little bit of, it's not respecting them. It's not allowing them to influence you. And it can disrupt the relationship a little bit if you go too far with it. Yes, for sure. Now, if they go too far with it and now they're not respecting your house and there's ants on the floor and that, then we can have a conversation about it.

The sixth rule of the warrior kid. The warrior kid keeps things neat and is always prepared and ready for action. That's good. Gotta have that neat robe. That's good. And this is like from the SEAL team. It's like, you keep your gear squared away. Yes, yes. You keep your gear squared away. For sure. That's the way it is. And to me, that's like, oh yeah. I, kind of my minimum standard is,

Call it functional cleanliness. That's good. Like I'm like functional cleanliness. Yes. There you go If you go to my garage gym right now that I have yes, there's chalk on the floor. It's not overwhelming It doesn't isn't but it's there I use that gym this morning and I use chalk and I'm gonna use it tomorrow morning and the morning after that so it's functionally clean

Now if I go in there and my kids were in there working out and all of a sudden there's crap everywhere, now it's not functionally clean. I can't use it. So that's kind of where I draw the line with cleanliness. Stuff on the floor, I can't walk through your room. Not functional. It's not functional. So functional cleanliness is my minimum standard. I'm going to take that. Now when you get into a professional environment like the cave, that is a professional learning environment. And it is an example of

To everyone that walks in that building there is only one standard for that thing and that is the standard of excellence yes, sir if you walked into you know a military Building that represents the there's something called the quarterdeck of a Navy building the quarter that comes from a ship But there's one in the in a building as well, and it's where you enter the ship What's where you enter the building as well? What do you go on to a Navy quarterdeck like the quarterdeck of SEAL team one and

that thing better be spotless. It better be outstanding because that's representing the team. So there's, the only standard is excellence. Absolutely. That's why when you're having guests to your house, it's like the standard is raised. So when we're having, you know, when, when my mother-in-law's coming over from England, now the standard, I tell my kids, Hey, your grandma's coming.

This, look, you know, you can't have dish by the bed. If it's just me, dish by the bed for one day, no big deal. Slack. Grandma's coming. No slack. Clean it up. That's kind of where we're at. So technically, your functional cleanliness is, because technically, even if you're going business environment, the cave, and you want sheer excellence, technically, that is functional cleanliness. Yes, you're right. And you really want to go big picture. Let's say,

Jason Wilson more squared away, a lot more clean, we'll say, than let's say the average person. If you're trying to maintain a culture of a certain level of cleanliness, that's functional. Just because, I mean, the standard can slide, but it's still functional. It's very good. Yeah. Even now that you bring that up, Jack, I'm with my son. He has his desk in his room where he does his homework and he's

I let some things slide. I've learned a lot, you know, since raising my daughter. Like, the hoodies and be on this chair, I'm like, my man, that's supposed to be on the hanger in the closet. And I let it go, you know? And, but when it's chore day, Fridays, you know, like, hey, let's lock in, you know? But that's,

- Yeah, I'm gonna use that functional cleanliness. And in the cave, we have the parents take pictures of their bedrooms and they send them to us. And we have fun, it's fun in the cave. We show the kids rooms like, look at this room, and they're like, oh, why is that out? And the point is like, can we do better? And so now it becomes a fun game for them

Well, my next picture, my room's going to be tighter. And then those that do, they get these awards. Excuse me. They get these awards for that. And it changes the culture of the kids. And the parents say, wow, like now that this is in order, I see it now in this homework. It changes because clutter...

- Does a lot to your mind as well. - See, that becomes something a little bit different. That becomes a corrective measure for life, right? Which I can't support that anymore. If you have somebody that they're living like a slob, they're not doing their standard protocols on a daily basis, and you can then imprint upon them, hey, you gotta start your day off right. You gotta make it, like for me when I was in the SEAL teams,

When I would leave my, I would never leave my desk. At the end of the day, I'd square my desk away. I wouldn't get out a pledge, spray it, and wipe it down. I wouldn't do that. But there would be no junk sitting on it. There would be no stack of papers. It would be squared away. If someone walked in there, they'd go, oh, this is a squared away desk.

Same thing at my house. It's like, oh, a couple days can go by and my desk can get some, you know, like working on a book over here and I got some stuff and some mail came in. But after a while, it's like, oh, no, this is not okay. So you got to square that away. But if you have someone that's whole life has been wild and we want to teach them how to control their life, control their emotions, control their behavior. Well, we can teach them by teaching them to control their

Their room. Teaching them to control their bed when they wake up in the morning. Those are things that you can do. That's what they do in the military. Look what they do in the military. They drop a quarter on your bed to see if the thing bounces, to see if you've got it tight enough. They're teaching you, here are the protocols to be disciplined with your room. Then it's going to go to the behavior. Then it's going to go to how you do your job. Then it becomes your emotions. Then it becomes how you function.

so that's great stuff my friend gabriel again was a marine he said the same thing he never understood the cleanliness aspect of being a marine what does this have to do with battle he says you'll know when we get out there everything has to be in order yeah but i'm like even with my son it's like now i'm thinking about it it is like he'll make his bed it looks good on the top so i lift up this this spread

The sheets, everything is out of order. He just, you know, wanted to get by dad. I said, this is a problem. You're creating a bad habit. And he says, how dad? I said, well, it's not done in excellence. So you have a book report due or something's due and you can just do the bare minimum. You're going to do that because you programmed yourself to live that way. I said, but I'm coming behind you. This is my opportunity. This is a perfect training ground for you, son, because you're still here.

So now not only do you have to remake the bed, you're going to wash all of the linen because you haven't watched this in a while. I see the slob stains on the pillowcases because I don't have time to check behind him like that. I'm not that type of dad. And he appreciates it. It's like, man, I love you. This is love. Like, I wish my dad did this with me. Don't yell at me demonstrably and give me no reason for, you know, your action.

Tell me why and how this will hurt me long term. Son, do everything to your best ability in building. If your sheets were the foundation and the cover was just the bricks, your house will fall because you didn't lay it solid. That's what I love about ceramic tile. You get a stress, stress crack in the tile. You don't have to tell me too much. I know the foundation wasn't laid correctly. So we were all mutts at our tile. We couldn't use cement boards.

So we would do it the old Italian way. We would pack our cement and screed it off and the floor would be level in all four directions and have the metal lab underneath. I knew my floors, none of them cracked. Whenever I saw a stress crack in a tile, bad foundation. Someone didn't put in the work where it mattered the most, thought it could be hidden, get your money and leave. And so little J learned that and it's like,

I agree, Jocko. You can't let certain things slide. You don't want to be overbearing and major in the minors. Functional cleanliness is the best. But even with that bed being made that way, I don't ever want to see it that way because now I'm...

allowing a spirit of laziness to set in because the only reason you didn't do it either you didn't get up on time because the alarm I heard you we hit snooze five times okay that already gonna create more anxiety than you need in the morning but also let's stay to the principles is this how it's supposed to be done it's not about being overbearing is this correct if not they're gonna go in life and you wonder why the police giving you a call

He thought he could get away with it. She thought she could do this. No. Here are the principles. They apply all throughout life. And I agree with you. It's like give them room to make the mistake, but then correct it and give them the right advice on how to move forward. And again, they don't come with manuals. See, what bothers me about that story is the fact that he tried to get one over him.

See what I'm saying? He's good, man. Because that's, you know, for me, like there's like line in the sand. Like if you lie to me. Yeah. Oh yeah. We got a problem. Yes, major. We got a, you got a problem. Cause I'm very understanding. And if you straight outside the bounds and you made a mistake and you know, I ask you about it and you tell me what happened, um,

Most people are surprised about this, but my kids, I didn't have curfews for my kids. You come home, go to a party, you're in 10th grade, go to a party, cool. You know, have a good time. What time do I need to be home? Just don't do anything stupid. They come home at midnight, they come home at 10, they come home at one. Like, okay. Now, because I trusted them, because I trusted that they were gonna go out and they had good values to make good decisions,

And did that were they perfect kids? Nope. Nope. You know, there were there was times right to be like, oh, no, that's you know, that's not that's not okay. But when they told me the truth, it was like, I'll work with it. But I wanted them to have enough freedom that they knew that I trusted them. They knew that I respected what they were doing. And then they

Put trust in them which means they could trust me and you know what that meant was they could talk to me You know, my kids would tell me oh, you know this happened at school or this kid's doing this something So I felt like it worked out pretty good like, you know with the kids but um, it's Such a it's a balance right? It's a balance but then a couple red lines, you know that you can't cross Lion is one of them

Me too. Me too. That's major. There was a saying when I grew up, if you lie, you will steal. And it seemed to be always true with a lot of my friends who would lie to their parents. And I would tell Jay, you know, you don't ever want to lose my trust. Because when I give my life for you, that goes without saying. But anything my son needs, I make it happen. If I can make it happen, I'm going to get it for you if you're doing what you're supposed to do. And so those random checks, you know, for functional cleanliness, you

is always good even going underneath the bed like my man what what is this no wonder we're missing we used to wear the same like Nike socks I stopped I just bought me some straight black ones because I got tired of not having enough I brought gray ones I brought gray ones because my son's same ring once he was my size everything was disappearing yeah I was like no my man and so just like is this supposed to be there and I know it's no argument that's what I love it's like

You got me, Dad. That's all I can say. Like, okay, cool. Let's do better. Let's not let this keep happening. Like laundry, when he's folding the clothes, like, my man, it don't take three hours. I said, I know what it is. It's your phone. I said, watch, I'm going to take this phone away. Let's see how fast you get done. Boy, that phone is like a corrective measure you can use on kids now. Like you just said, it take you three hours to fold the clothes with your phone. Yeah.

If I take your phone, you're turning into a freaking master Chinese laundrette. Stuff's just getting folded up. Our son told me and my wife, Nicole, we were bragging to another couple like, yeah, when we took J-Phone, he's so much nicer and kind. We really think it's the social media pulling him away. He was like, nah, I just wanted my phone back. God.

And I'm like, man, I'm thinking, you know, it was some science behind what we were doing. He's like, nah, I was just being nice. I'm playing the game. We'll take it. We'll take it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Next section here, the friend. The friend loves at all times and is steadfast in the face of adversity, willing to lay down his life for his companions. It's...

Seems so obvious right seems so obvious but boy isn't it important to lay down a good foundation Absolutely, so that people understand, you know, I had a friend call me up and he needs something and you know It was a little bit of a big ask He called me up. He said hey, I need it's like here's the situation. I'm in I need this and I was like, oh

"Alright, friendship dues are up, I guess I'm in." You know what I mean? That's what we're doing. I don't just talk this game like, "You need something?" He called me, called me on it. Okay, we're doing this then. But it's so important for people to understand what that actually means. A friend is someone you can call and they're gonna answer the call and they're gonna step in and we're gonna get stuff done. - Absolutely, I told little Jay, he was disappointed by some kids at school when he was younger.

And he said, they weren't a good friend. I said, well, really, son, there's no such thing as a good or bad friend. They're either a friend or they're not. I said, so when you remove that, you understand what a friend is now. And so that helped him a lot. Like, hmm, OK, they either a friend or not. This is not my friend. And so, yeah, you don't need an adjective before the word friend. It's strong enough to stand on its own. Yeah.

Part three, the devotion characteristics. First one, out of the gate, the husband. The husband emulates Christ's love by sacrificially giving of himself for his wife's well-being, treating her as he would like to be honored. That's a big one. Yeah, this is the one that you couldn't think of earlier for these little sayings. Happy wife, happy life. Yes. It's like, okay, we understand what that means, but...

but there better be a little something more behind that. - Yeah, and it never was a term of endearment. As men, we were taught to give that life to our wives so that we have some peace and they'd be quiet. That's what that came from. And so women are starting, they getting up on game like, wait a minute.

- If you're not happy, I'm not happy either. And COVID exposed a lot of it with the divorce rates. They thought everything was good because they got pretty much what they wanted, but their husbands never really dealt with the tough conversations 'cause they weren't good verbal processors. - When you say verbal processors, what do you mean by that? - Meaning someone that can articulate with their feelings with composure. Not having to, for me,

my thing was hitting the table, I'm sick of always boom and I would do that. Instead of saying, well no Nicole, every time you question my leadership with finances, it actually hurts me and it actually reminds me of a time when my father wouldn't trust me with such and such. And I would like for you to please trust me moving forward and more so, what have I done to blow your trust? Instead of saying, why don't you submit to my leadership?

Babe, why don't you trust me? Because that's the heart. That's where I'm speaking from. That's hurt because it hurts me that you don't trust my leadership. What did I do? How can I improve? And when I communicate that way, my wife drops her guard because she's hearing my heart. And now she meets the moment and come right there with me. And so when you're a verbal processor, you can speak the true message.

emotions behind what you feel or your thoughts without actually losing control of the moment. A lot of times, Nicole, she joked about like, she could be wrong. And because I lack composure,

Now I have to apologize to her for the way I talked to her and she was initially wrong. So now when we, when I have to call her on something and she does it too, I can see it. I'm like, I'm not losing this. Like, no, no, I'm, we're going to stay here. I'm going to stay at this level here. We'll communicate like, no, you were wrong. Why did you say that? No, because that wasn't right. Why? No, let's stay here. No, no, no, no, no, no. Why did you do that? Hmm.

And keep it right there in eye to eye contact and communicate the heart of the matter. Now I'm not yelling or anything. And we're going to hold each other responsible for the way we're treating each other. And there is no outs. We're going to labor with each other and work with each other and communicate. Tell me, stop holding it in. Learn how to verbalize it because holding it in.

It's like a champagne bottle. Life is going to shake you. Eventually it's going to pop. Then you wonder why you lost control with the simplest offense. Like, man, that thing, her saying that did not warrant that reaction. It's because you held it in. Learn how to communicate in a way where

She can hear your heart and not be on defensive. You know, a lot of times we're yelling our body language. A woman who's small in stature, she's going to back up. She's going to try to protect herself, guard herself. But when you communicate, just like you do a lot of times, I hear you and I'm locked in.

But if you yelled at every time you talked, you wouldn't have no one. No one would come. And so that's what a verbal processor is. He's verbalizing what he's processed. And a lot of times as men, we can't process because we suppress or repress what we feel. And that's been a game changer for me. And my wife is not sweeping things under the rug for the sake of peace, but truly having peace by bringing these issues to the forefront. You know, we have a saying that,

Peace is not the absence of chaos, adversity and trials. It's being in the midst of those things and still remaining calm at heart. And that's how I view it at home. If there's an issue, I'm not going to sweep it under the rug. It's going to be tough. Let's talk about this. But this conversation doesn't need to turn into an argument. And I'm not going to let it turn into that. Voices start raising like, hey, well, let's table this. But we still need to continue this conversation. And as men, we have a right to say, hey,

Nah, bae, they're so used to us coming to the bedroom because they can give us some. Like, no, that's not I'm sorry. I need to hear you say, I'm sorry, jock, for hurting you. You know, my words weren't right and I shouldn't have said that to you. Then after that, we can have sex, man. But I want to make sure, you know, again, I've seen so many couples, you know, marriages fold.

Because they don't face it head on, you know. And when you're successful, you have money and resources. You can hide a lot, you know. And Nicole and I have chosen to go the hard path and really work through this, the issues that happened before we met. And then those issues that created the issues when we met. Like, we're still working. Even today. Everything's fine, but we're still working. Like, hmm, you responded that way. Where did that come from?

And just sit with that for a moment. Well, Jason, I fear losing control because when I was eight, that's how my home felt for a moment.

And so I actually keep a picture of her in my phone during that time of her life. So if we're ever at a place in a day where we're not getting along, I look at that picture to keep my heart tender towards her. Because typically who you're arguing with isn't the grown woman in front of you. It's the child. Same thing with the husband. It's not the 40 or 50 year old man. It's the 15 year old boy who never was healed. That's why he's so reactionary.

Like how do we learn how to communicate that without feeling that our wives would use it against us and vice versa? Yeah. I always want to let people know that when we talk about communication, when I talk about communication and I'm talking about good communication, I'm actually talking about listening and you know,

Me, you know, there's a joke where I actually on front where I work I do this I sit there I'm listening to someone and I put my hand like this like kind of like the thinking man What's that statue the thinking man? Yeah, but you know people notice that I do it I'm like, yeah That's a way of letting you know letting me know that I need to keep my mouth shut and listen to what this other person's saying and Going a little bit further. My goal is when you and I are having a discussion. I

Is I want to try and figure out how you're right and I'm wrong. That's my actual goal I'm like, okay Jason and I were going into some business deal and he wants to do it this way and I want to do it that way I sit down and cover up my mouth I listen what you have to say and my goal is to figure out how you're right and I'm wrong. That's my goal. Wow, and

It's very it's very helpful tool for opening up my mind, you know, because otherwise it's like, you know when I'm like, you know Jason thinks he's got a good idea about my know my ideas better. So, okay. How do you want to do it Jason? And I'm just look like you said something on the last podcast. Am I just listening to respond which is a totally different thing than listening to hear and listening to understand so I know

I know that the de-escalation, you know, the de-escalation fact, like I don't yell at my wife and my wife and I haven't yelled at each other. Maybe ever. Uh, she got a little hostile with me over Christmas. Uh, we were doing ice bath. Yeah. And so my whole family, this was last two Christmases ago, I think. And so my whole family were, it's in Montana and it's like, it's in the snow and there's ice and we have to chop the icing. So my whole family were out there. We're having fun. And, uh,

My son had heard Andrew Huberman talking about brown fat and how the ice bath will improve your brown fat, which brown fat is good for you. And the brown fat is located around the clavicles and the up. So, so my wife is, so we're all taking rotations in the ice bath and we're outside, we're in the jacuzzi, but we got the ice bath out there. So whoever's not in the ice bath, we're all sitting in the jacuzzi. Yeah.

So my wife is in, so my wife gets into the ice bath and my son this whole time has been yelling at everyone, get your brown fat in there. Come on. You got to get down to your neck. Right? Absolutely. So my wife is in there and I'm like, come on, darling, get your brown fat down in there.

Hostilities were received. She said, don't you tell me about that. I was like, okay, darling. Nicole will never cold plunge. Okay. And we had one at the cave facility. She would not do it. We had that boy at 38 degrees. And the record is 22 minutes in that. Yeah. And we were taught all. Actually, Andy Frisella taught me to go to the earlobes. Yeah. That's to get the brown fat in there. Yeah.

- Boy, you talking about refocusing. Yeah, yeah, Nicole would never cold plunge. We have Asana, she's cool with that, but she would yell at me if I ever made a call and dare I hold her shoulders down in the water. You can't get out, you gotta at least do 20 seconds. - That happened, but the whole family's like, oh! - So you guys did it outside. - Yeah, yeah.

But my point in saying that was, yeah, other than that outburst, we'll call that winter of 2023. I really listen to what my wife has to say and I try and figure out how she's right and I'm wrong. It's usually not that hard. So again, when we talk about, my point in saying this is most people when they think of communicating,

They think of me. I'm going to talk. I was working with a client at Echelon Front and he was having an issue with one of his employees and he was going to give him a call. And so I'm like, okay, yep, sounds good. So he gives him a call, talks to him, calls me back. He says, oh, I just had a great conversation with so-and-so. I said, oh, that's awesome. I said, what percentage of time did you talk and what percentage of time did he talk? And he was just quiet.

Because he knew. He knew he had gone on the thing and said, you know, Jason, I was thinking about what you, you know, the last project that you work on, you showed up a little bit late. And he went on and talked and it was a great conversation for him. But what's Jason thinking on the other end? Jason's like, oh, here it is. Big boss man laying into me again. I can't get two words in edgewise. And so just think, just keep that in mind. You know, when communication, the best communication is when you listen.

When you listen to what the other person has to say. And that allows you time to think how you can really articulate and verbally process correctly what you want to say. That's good. Because otherwise, man, if you just listen. That was a great listening to respond, what you said earlier. So smart. Don't do that.

That's good. That's good. You got another section in here staying in shape. Just going to throw it out there. We're working out, man. We're working out. You got to stay in shape. Yeah. You got to stay in shape. You know, that's one thing I noticed my wife would tell me. I train jujitsu a lot. And if I don't train, you know, for a couple days, she'll be like, you need to go train. You know, because my attitude is just like starts becoming a little bit, maybe not, you know, it's a little bit more.

Because Jiu-Jitsu makes me very happy. Jiu-Jitsu makes me very happy. You know what? I agree, man. I even think it's, we should never allow the warrior to die in us. You know, as you get older, I've been convicted of that a lot lately, is to get back and train, get some guys maybe my age, you know. The time for me to go into Jiu-Jitsu gyms is so hard because of my job and porn. Because either it's real early or it's in the afternoon when I'm teaching. And I miss it, you know. And

when that warrior dies, a part of you go. And I think every man, no matter our age, if you can't go as hard, do something. Don't let the warrior die. And you get so busy that you neglect that side. And then you wonder why he comes out at times that he shouldn't. That's probably what your wife would see. And it's like...

I remember my blood pressure was the lowest when I was getting thrown the most. My anxiety was, I could deal with anything. Man, the way I was getting whipping and you had to stay calm and you couldn't really plan your heartfall or your breakfall. I was, in life, I was like, there's nothing, nothing, this is nothing out here. But when I stopped, I noticed like, well, this is anxiety. I don't do this anymore. You know, after taking care of my mom,

With dementia, you know, like, you can't control nothing. And you learn to accept more than to try to control anything. And when I stop training a lot because of the injuries, I'm like, I see it immediately. You can see something is missing. And I believe we should never let that warrior die in us. I don't care if you can just, if you got to do Tai Chi, do something. Do it.

Do something to keep them active. I'm looking forward to my Tai Chi days. Yeah. You're going to ask me, did you just do it or something? I'm about 130. That's what we're doing. You're going to call it Tai Jitsu. It's probably something now. Is there something in Tai Jitsu? There probably is. That sounds kind of familiar. Yeah. I would say do what you can. Yeah. Do what you can. Yeah. I totally agree. Next section, the father. Clearly, this is one we've been talking about. The father desires his children's trust.

and provides a safe space for them to receive love, learn from their mistakes, and conquer their fears. Desires for his children's trust, that's a very important way of wording that. It doesn't say demand children's trust. You gotta earn that. - Yes. - You gotta earn that. And how do you earn it? You gotta give them some. And there's a little bit, there's risk. Kids aren't always gonna do what you want 'em to do. Kids are gonna make mistakes. Kids are gonna do dumb things.

And if you just snatch all their trust away from them, they say, look, sometimes they deserve that. Sometimes they're going to get grounded. Yes, sir. They're going to lose privileges. Echo and I talk a lot about children and privileges. Because when you start breaking down the privileges that your kids have. Yes, yes.

House, roof, food, phone, power, bedspread, pillow, clothing. Like, it's a long list. So when we start revoking some of those privileges, we can tighten things up real quick. Yes, yes. And it's needed. Good reminder. No, but this is just a great chapter. And obviously, the details that you put in here represent a lot of the stuff that we've been talking about today. And...

The son is the last one. The son is the last one. I made that. It's the shortest, but the most important because, again, that took me into a battlefield where I couldn't just be masculine. I had to be nurturing, long suffering, patience, more tenderhearted. And I was caring for my mother. And that was really the most important characteristic that God used to shape me into a comprehensive man.

She didn't need a provider per se. She still needed some help with assistance. She has Social Security and some pension. Protecting, I would say maybe when bill collectors would call and she just couldn't afford it anymore or doctors. I remember sitting in one appointment. He literally was just pushing psych meds on her and I was like, do you know her backstory? He was like, no, why do I need to know the backstory?

I said, so you know exactly what to prescribe or if she needs prescription medication. My mother, what she went through, he didn't know any of that. And that's when we wanted to get a psych evaluation. So that was the protector. But what my mother really needed during that time was the nurturer. Because the nurturer, to some extent, is the protector as well. He's caring. He's combing her hair. Things I would never have done. Fouling her fingernails, painting her fingernails.

Washing her up when the caregiver Kathy could. That's why I said we have to be more than masculine. Don't get rid of your masculinity, your attributes. Again, now you got another deficit. We've mastered that. Let's stretch a little further and grow a little further to become comprehensive as men. Then the world I know will be better because now we're not just limited. We're multifaceted instead of monofaceted, I guess. And so that's why I close with that chapter because

No one wants to see their parents go through an illness like Alzheimer's or dementia or cancer and then to be present and stay there no matter how hard it is, no matter how late it is. How many times she forgets the answer you gave when you say it 20 more times without an attitude. That does something to a man. And it shaped me into who I am today. And what's interesting is that

That video went viral, I think, three months after she passed. God knew what he was doing. It was like he was training me for what was coming. He says, if I don't help you get your emotions in check, if I don't teach you how to be comprehensive, if I don't show you really what sacrifice is, sacrifice isn't doing what needs to be done. It's doing what needs to be done that you don't want to do. And that's when I learned, like, I got it now.

And when she passed, a friend of mine, like a spiritual sister, she said, you thought you were releasing her, but she was releasing you. And that hit like a ton of bricks. But she was like a sensei. My mother, that whole six, seven year journey, the phone calls two in the morning. Mom is an actor. She's very combative. I need you to come by and I got to be at work in five hours. And I would leave angry at God. Like, why is this happening?

And he says, "Really, think back to when you were young and you would come home at three in the morning and mom would stay up all night and she didn't know if you made it and she lost a son already." And I said, "Hmm, you are just." And I would just go and take my medicine. And when I got the lesson, he freed mom and then mom freed me, you know, to be the man this moment demands and just walk in my calling unashamedly and to give men a message that

I didn't create, it came from God. And it's how he created us to be. One of the greatest warriors in the Bible is David. And he cried and prayed the majority of the Psalms. But he still was the king and the warrior. And that's all, man, we desire is to be human. And so. Well, like you said, you close out the book with that chapter. I want to close out the book for this episode here. You say this. This is actually, I'm closing out with something from the beginning.

You say take action throughout this book I will encourage you not only to read but also to take action The only way you can change the man you are is to free yourself from pre-existing paradigms So at each step of the journey together choose to act on what you learn start now so it's you know something that I didn't really mention about the book is you have like like like things throughout the book that are

You know, it's like you said, it's an instruction thing.

So you have some procedures, actions to follow in each of the chapters. Like here's the topic and here's some actions you can take, whether it's cold plunging, whether it's making a budget, right? Like sit down and make a budget. Whether it's managing boundaries, setting up boundaries, whether it's taking your family out to dine in a public place that's a little bit above the standard of the normal place that you go to.

Whether it's sitting down and doing drills for silent communication, communicating with your spouse without having to talk. So you got and you explain how to do them. And then finally, there's a part of it that's throughout the book.

And that is the affirmations. It's like, you call it a mirror drill. Did you make that up? Well, I don't know if I made it up. It's always science behind talking to yourself in the mirror. But for men, what I notice is that we have a hard time looking at ourselves without trying to shave or make ourselves look better, but just intently look into your own eyes and see something good. A lot of men's retreats I go on and

the things that i would hear the self-condemning words like look at you loser and like man this is your normal talk to yourself and so i wanted to put the mirror drill in there for you to not only look at yourself in an intimate way like i'm not this bad guy i may be wounded but i'm not this bad guy and i can improve but also to say the things that you won't do anymore

Like one line in there is that I'm not an alpha male. I'm a human being. I'm bigger than that. Like I would not be limited by just that one definition. You know, respecting women, the gentleman chapter. You know, I will respect my elders and those that are in need. Looking into your own eyes, telling that man in the mirror who you will become.

is a very powerful exercise and that's why i put that at the end of each chapter yeah each chapter has one um and it has affirmations as well thoughts to go through yes um so really really good it's like it's not just a book that you can read it's got action steps that you can take to progress towards being or becoming the man that the moment demands uh that's where we're at

what are you working on now? What's the, what, what do you got in the hopper? Rest. That's what I want to work on. Um, if I can, um, yeah, I would love to take a moment just to rest for, um, a month. But as I'm saying that, um, it's like a pastor told me,

sometimes like airplanes, warplanes, they have to refuel in the air. All right. And so that's just where I am right now. I would have to refuel in the air. My assistant has to take a break for a moment from the cave. I don't know if indefinite is the answer, but

Chris? Yes. He has a big, beautiful family and has to do some things. And so I may have to gear up. Well, I will have to gear up and finish this group. And so I'm like that war plane. I'm going to have to refuel in the air. But when it's time for me to land, I'm going to take full advantage of it. So that's my focus is the group that we have right now, 47 boys, make sure they finish the right of passage strong.

Is the rite of passage for those 47 boys...

- So the boys are in the program for four years? - No, no, we've narrowed it down to 18 months intense training. And then after that they go into the other core curriculum as far as the dining etiquette training, grooming etiquette, financial literacy, speaking and communication as well as community service and construction skills. - That's awesome. - Yeah, thanks. - So these guys got 18 months, how far are they? - Well they're finishing, wow, October.

Okay. And then what's that? What's like the final? That's good. I'm glad you asked that. They go off to retreat, a weekend retreat, no technology. And they're on the cabin with counselors and psychotherapists. And so it's faith centered, of course. But imagine the child, he gets to undo his trauma as a child.

So for three days they're in isolation and for at least eight hours a day they're doing introspective work on where they are right now. I mean it's powerful. We have one moment where the fathers come and they have to communicate how much they love their sons and how proud they are without saying a word, only with the eyes. When I say everyone is crying in a matter of like two minutes, it's powerful.

Because majority of times our words can't really articulate what our hearts really want to convey. But the eyes can when you just sit and stare, you know, and it's powerful. So that's the last day. And the camaraderie, the way they join together and the issues they came with, they burn them and it's powerful.

It's really powerful. We do some psychodrama where they can go back and then we are praying what was really said. Why wasn't that said? Just powerful. So imagine now you're undoing the trauma. You're helping them release it as middle schoolers. Now there are men with healed boys inside. Is there a physical component? So we get baptized. What's the physical component where...

We now say you are a graduate. Yeah, that's at the end. We have a ceremony as well. It's actually during the weekend after they finish all of the training. They go through a ceremony. We give them actually it's a sling and a stone of David. There you go. It's really good. It's really powerful. And then they slay the giants they meant to slay that weekend. It's really good.

And how's the trajectory of the boys that have graduated in the past? They're all performing great. You know, you have, you know, the stragglers, some that you have to watch a little more. Moms say, he's not doing this. Can you give him a call? But the majority are stellar. You know, again, it stemmed not from their inability to perform academically. It was the inability to express what was really going on inside. And once you give them that freedom to do that,

it's amazing what happens to these boys you know it's it's it's it's a it's one of the greatest it is the greatest work that i could do i won't say it's my life's work yet because i'm nowhere near gone but it's uh it's definitely to see boys lives transformed and then their parents i see why i stay under spiritual attack a lot and because you're literally changing the trajectory of some kids future yeah and so you got forces of darkness

that don't want that to happen and that comes with being a soldier for God. I'm not aiming to please anyone here, but the reason, him who sent me to complete the task that he sent me to do. - Do any of the boys or have any of the boys come back to become instructors? - Yeah, we have,

six peer instructors right now. Those are the ones you gave the rash cards to. - Got it. - Yeah, and they would love to see you. Yeah, they're phenomenal young men and some still, you know, they do sports and still come back, but we have a good core of five or six that's faithful in there. And you know, in martial arts, look how many black belts are created and how many are teachers. You know, like where are all your teachers?

Friends of mine who run jujitsu gyms, it's like, man, I can't get someone in here to sacrifice their time to do what I did in them. You know, you have maybe three or four faithfuls. As many students that's come through these doors, you should have to tell teachers, hey, I got too many teachers right now. And so it's always going to be a shortage. You know, the harvest is plentiful, but the labor is a few. And so I just pray to the Lord of Harvest to send me laborers and help

He sends the few who are faithful. And I think it's going to... If it was like that in his time, I think we're pretty much set with what it's going to be like. It's going to be the few. And I'm just thankful for those few. They're testing right now. This is the first time I couldn't be at their fortitude test. Sorry. No, it's not sorry. It's a blessing because...

They're growing. I hear the praise report from yesterday. They did well. They pushed through. What's the fortitude test? Fortitude is the ground. You have to fight. So it's building fortitude. That's what we teach the jiu-jitsu.

So do they have to go against a certain number of people, do certain skill sets? Yeah, the drills, then you have to roll live and then full contact, punching with boxing gloves while you're on the ground, hip escape from under the standing attack, everything. And then you got the spiritual component as well where you have to recite all of the answers to the questions that we taught you about fortitude.

You know, one of them is that when Christ said that he that endures to the end shall be saved. So enduring to the end. Do you have what it takes to endure without complaining?

And so that's what the Fortitude module is about and to see the students grow in that. And I remember several of my teachers and coaches, when they couldn't make it, they purposely stayed away so that their black belts could have that experience. Because you got to give them a shot. If you're always there, how will they grow? You got to let them grow in soul.

It was man. God is like, I need you to be in this space, you know, transition and move forward. And so, yeah, this was a blessing. This is how he got me away. And I always wanted to have a sit down conversation with you, man. Yeah. You and me both. All right. Does that get us up to speed? Yes, sir. Good. So people that are looking for you.

I think we went through this before. Mr. Jason Wilson. Dot com. And then you're on Twitter. Instagram. At Mr. Jason. Oh. Wilson. And then you're also on YouTube at. Mr. Jason. Oh. Wilson. And Facebook. Jason Wilson. And for the.

For the nonprofit, for the charity, for the cave, it's theunion, spelled the, Y, union, dot org. Or it could be a little easier, savingboys.com. Okay, so we got a new one, savingboys.com. Yes. All right, savingboys.com. And then on Twitter, YouTube, Instagram, it's at cave313.

And then Facebook is Cave of a Dolem Transformational Academy. You know why you were talking, we were talking about scaling a lot this episode. Mm-hmm.

That's why I called it Cave 313 because hopefully it'll be another area called. - Cave 619. - That's how we do it. - Cave 858. - Yes. - 808. - Yes. - 808, oh, there you go. - Awesome stuff. - Let me come out there. Let me start that one up out in Hawaii. - Echo Charles, you got any questions? - Yeah, I got a question.

I need your opinion on this one. So in the spirit of what was it called? Wearing the right uniform for the right battle? Yes. Or the right armor for the right battle? Right, yes. Let's say hypothetically as a jujitsu person, I've, let's say I have a black belt that I've had since the day I got my black belt. Let's say I've had that black belt for, I don't know, 25 years or so. All right, we'll say. So it's real old. Yeah, for sure. And then in the future, I get a brand new black belt.

That's like super like made really well, really good looking black belt, you know, made by honorable people, the whole deal. But it's brand new, right? Is it a violation or is it directly in line with the right uniform for the right battle? If I save that new black belt just for media appearances?

And I keep my old one for the action. Is that right or is that wrong? Man, this is crazy. One of my friends, Tyrone Gooden, he's a Machado black belt, jujitsu. When we were working on just marketing his gym, I was like, man, I appreciate, trust me, my belt is raggedy. I get it. I said, but for this picture, let's do a new one.

For these, holding all of these awards you got, let's do the new one. So you're right on point. Yeah, definitely. So that might mean I guess. So what? You setting me up for something? No, I was just wondering your opinion. Jacko, what you think? There are various opinions on the matter is what I'm saying. So I have a black belt. I didn't get it 25 years ago, but I did get it, oh, jeez. 25 years? 20 years ago. Okay. 2005. Okay, yeah, yeah. And I've had the same black belt.

for 20 years and it's old and it's weathered and it looks pretty cool. But it is definitely. So Origin USA, which is a company that makes jujitsu gi's

All in America. 100% American product made from American materials. We don't have any slave labor. We're not paying communists. We employ people and they earn a living and they learn a skill and it's awesome. And we started making jujitsu belts. And so the boys sent me

beautiful origin USA black belt and we were just deciding you know we were kind of discussing what to do with it what debating we were debating was that a debate well I don't know if I remember correctly you chose I haven't chosen anything yet okay it felt like you were really unhappy with my opinion on the matter I agree with Jason Wilson yeah yeah media black belt

It's like it still gets the glory, you see what I'm saying? But the newness and the pizzazz gets... I did an ad for Tyrone where I had him hold his black belt coiled, and it was weathered and torn, and it said over 20 years as a black belt. And that's a powerful imagery right there. So it depends. That was the right armor for that fight. But for media...

For the novice, you know. When you see someone that's wearing an old black belt, though, don't you think a little bit of respect? Oh, for sure. Absolutely. But you think that's more respect is more warranted on the mats. I would say the respect would be the wrong word. I would say, like I said, there are varying opinions on this matter. And I respect both of them, to be honest with you. But I think in the spirit of right uniform for the right battle,

if there's gonna be two different belts of just such polarizing appearances, and one is gonna be chose for one and one's gonna be chose for other, boom, that's the way I see it currently. - I just like it for pictures and then you're trying to recruit more students and parents

they don't know what that weather belt represents. Like, man, they must be poor here, you know? Yeah, yeah. Take pride in your appearance, bro. If we really want to go deep on this. Yes, we do. If I'm wearing my black gi, I could wear my old belt because it's like contrasting. And if we're in a white gi and I wear my

new black belt. I see you. I see you. So maybe that's the protocol. Maybe. That's the working protocol. Now what kind of protocol is it that I want my ego to be gratified by people seeing my black belch?

Just in general. In general. Yeah. Maybe I need to be more humble. Yeah. So, and this is a whole nother issue, but I'm glad you brought it up. So, you know how like, cause there's two kinds of philosophies and sometimes there's some overlap. You know how some people say, Hey, it doesn't matter the belt. It's like, it's just a matter of you learning and gaining skills and like all this stuff. And the belt is just almost like an ego thing and actually could be, could be dragged into the realm of,

it's kind of a like a hierarchy subjugation thing. Like where the black belts, we stand up here. You guys are the lower belts, lower belts. Like what do you mean? You know? So it could be that too. You see what I'm saying? But I think the real value in the belt is almost like a standard of reminder to tell you like, Hey, like you have to maintain a certain like level to yourself. That's good. And it's like a reminder and you get to wear it just like, it's like anything else. You see what I'm saying? Like any kind of, I don't know. He,

I guess any kind of uniform, really. - That's good. - Like when you play football, whatever, you have your number. And a lot of people, they stick with that number. And then if they do really, really well, they retire the number. It's like a thing. - When you talked about those shoulder pads I had on in the last episode, how I missed the catch, 'cause the ball went past my hands and hit those, the chest and the shoulder pads. I had those on to impress the cheerleaders. - Yeah, 'cause you wanted to look bigger.

- And so there's the ego again. - I played receiver two by the way. - I knew that was coming. - You need the short, the smaller shoulder pads. I had the linebacker shoulder pads on from the 80s. The ones that looked like you were a gladiator. Them the ones I had on man.

Any other questions? One last thing. I brought it up while kind of on break or whatever. So Lawrence Fishburne has a movie which happens to be my favorite movie of Lawrence Fishburne. Not as well known as like The Matrix and stuff. Even though I do like The Matrix. Are we not going to talk about Apocalypse Now here? No. Not Apocalypse Now. It's called Always Outnumbered. I never heard of that. Always Outnumbered. Always Outnumbered. Didn't get like the promotion and all this stuff. But in my opinion, one of his best movies. In my opinion, it's my favorite movie of him. Wow.

Um, but it's about basically he, uh, he gets, he just gets out of jail for some heinous charges or whatever. And he just gets out of jail. He has to rebuild his life in like South central. And he's struggling with the old, the old him, but he's freaking, you know, he's bent on really forging the right path, but he's struggling. Hardcore struggling. And then, um,

so he's trying to get a job he's trying to hold the job but he's kind of he's kind of mean a little bit you know so it's like you kind of sympathize with him but you're like bro you can't be doing that you know you're rubbing people the wrong way kind of a thing and then kind of out of nowhere like this kid comes into his life and now he has to kind of mentor this kid because the kid comes from you know a bad background but the kid wants to do the right thing but he's in the wrong path so it ends up being um kind of like he's trying to rediscover a new life for himself and this kid or whatever it turns out it's really good really well done how old is this movie 1998 if i'm not mistaken

I'm going to write that down. Yeah. Always outnumbered. Always outnumbered. Always outgunned. Oh, it's both. Or it could be just the one. I always knew it as the one. Yeah, there's a lot of people like Bill Cobb's in that. I think Natalie Cole's in that. Isaiah Washington's in there. He was the main actor? He's the main guy. Socrates Fortlow. That was your favorite movie. Oh, I've seen it many, many times. Yeah.

It's really good. I'm going to ask him about that. Very much worth the watch. Oh, yeah. 100%. Jack. Yeah. Good to meet you, sir. You too, man. Awesome. Yes, sir. Jason, any closing thoughts? No, man. Thank you for having me, man. Long time coming. Appreciate you. Keep doing what you're doing, man. It's affecting a lot of people.

more than you you know you know a lot but it's more than you know man appreciate it man and back at you and thanks for joining us today thanks for sharing all your experiences and your lessons learned and you know thank you for what you're doing right now to help so many people children and adults to to find the path of the most high and move them toward the light yes sir thank you brother appreciate it and with that Jason Wilson has left the building

Leaving us with a lot to think about leaving us with a lot to work on a lot of ways to improve mentally spiritually Physically yes to become a comprehensive man the physical part for working out. Yep. We're training jujitsu Boxing Muay Thai wrestling. Yep. Yep. Yep, and yep lifting of course. Oh

Lifting, as you like to say. Running. Hey, as you're doing all that stuff, you're going to need fuel. We recommend, you heard, review. Impromptu review. Yep. On the last podcast. In real time. From Jason Wilson. Real time. Drinking hydrate. He was drinking. Yep. Loving it. Check out jocofuel.com. By the way, you can text jocofuel to 24672 and we'll all send you like some voicemails. Yeah. Get in the game with that one.

So check it out. JockoFuel.com. We got protein. We got energy. We got milk. We got hydration. We got joint warfare. Super krill oil. Time. We got all time war. We got everything that you need. Creatine. How's your creatine? It's consistent. How much a day? Five to 10 grams.

that's not consistent it is consistent would be five grams or ten grams oh no no every day well because i lost my scoop like hey that's a whole nother story which we don't want to hear no you don't want to but so i use like a you know like a plastic spoon so i just estimate it but i overestimate rather than i'm gonna say you're probably five you're probably doing 14 maybe it's 18. it is what it is get on every day though every day that's why i say it can say every day get on the creatine yeah also

We have this stuff available at Walmart. We have it available at Wawa. We have it available at Vitamin Shop, GNC Military Commissaries, Afe's, Hannaford's. We're at Dash Stores in Maryland. Wake, Fern, and ShopRite. HEB down in Tejas. Have you seen the displays in Texas at HEB? They're legit. Meijer. So if you're up in the Jason Wilson area, you can go to Meijer and get yourself some. Wegmans.

Out there on the East Coast, Harris Teeter. Publix, we're now in Publix down in Florida. Rocking. Lifetime Fitness, Shields, Dick's Sporting Goods. Added to the list. So we're getting out there. If you need it, you can get it. Jocko Fuel. Go and check it out. Also, OriginUSA.com because we're training jujitsu. Gi, no gi. Both.

We need to wear a jujitsu uniform. We want to wear one that is American made. That's not made with slavery. That is not made by ruining the environment. So go to originusa.com. We also have jeans. We also have t-shirts. We also have hoodies, which I'm going to be putting on here shortly. We have shorts. We have workout gear. We have hunt gear. We have everything that you need. Boots. Did you get a new pair of boots yet?

Not since the last one, no. Okay. The new boots are awesome. Yeah. Is that the one you had on the other day when we were making a video? The Mokto. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Very luxurious. Very, they're epic. Epic boots. So we got everything that you need. Made 100% in America, Maine and North Carolina. From 100% American materials. OriginUSA.com. Check that out. It's true. Also, Jocko has a store called Jocko Store. So JockoStore.com.

All right, discipline is where the merch is. What's new at Jocko's store? Before I get to what's new, let me tell you what's existing, has been existing. Discipline equals freedom stuff. Shirts, hoodies, some hats on there, some shorts on there too, by the way. Don't forget about those summers coming up. Maybe not soon, but kind of soon. Just keep that in mind. The shirt locker subscription shirt scenario, new design every month. This month, discipline equals freedom instead of drinking.

That's essentially my little impromptu working title. Okay. That's interesting. If you click on shirt locker, you can kind of see the sneak peek. What's the sneak peek? Give us a verbal. Verbal. It's like instead of Dos Equis, it's like, oh, eh.

It's good anyway, yeah news that sounded very uncool your initial description and now real cool after you explain it Yeah, I think a lot of it is in the execution for sure. No, you know, it sounds like you executed properly. That's my good my good man So far so good. So anyway, yes all in jockeys are what's new? Okay, I've been I've been talking about socks for a long time. We finally got that's new Also this probably within the next I don't know four weeks. I

we have new discipline equals freedoms shirts new design check anyway um there's a place on the bottom of the uh the website you can sign up put your email in there so you can be on the list so you get informed when these new things kind of pop up or whatever so you get first crack at them you know a lot of times we can't be ordering like millions and millions of these things so you know in the event of them being in limited supply be sure that you get kind of the head of the line scenario you know through email so yeah it's all like taco store.com it's true

Also, check out ColoradoCraftBeef.com and PrimalBeef.com. Awesome steak from awesome companies, awesome people. Colorado Craft Beef has beef sticks that are like a Snickers bar for life. They're good for you. They taste good. They give you what you need. That's at ColoradoCraftBeef.com. And then Primal Beef has...

Jerky now. Mm-hmm. That's just freaking legit Primal beef comm check out their jerky look get burgers get the the beef Frank's get the steaks but get some of that jerky - it's fire as the young kids say Subscribe to the podcast subscribe to Jock on the ground subscribe to the YouTube channels psychological warfare you can check that out flipside canvas comm

Also books. So you heard from Jason Wilson today. He's got three books. The first one's cry like a man cry like a man That's the kind of the the origin story battle cry his first guide book and then finally this most recent book which we covered today the man the moment demands all those are by Jason Wilson great books Please check them out. Give them as gifts. They will help people also I've written a bunch of books including a bunch of kids books and

which I obviously do a really bad job of telling people about. So I'm telling you right now, if you know a kid, any kid between the ages of three and 38, get them the Warrior Kid books. It will make their lives better. Also, Echelon Front, we have a leadership consultancy. You heard me talk some leadership principles over the past couple podcasts. We put those principles to work at Echelon Front, making companies better through leadership.

So go to echelonfront.com for that. We also have a bunch of events that you can come and attend. Everything from the Muster, which is a leadership conference, to the FTX, to council, to battlefield. Got a bunch of awesome events. So check those out at echelonfront.com. We also have online training. The online training can be found at extremeownership.com. And this is training for leadership skills. And you might think, well, I'm not a general, right?

in the army or an admiral in the navy or the chief operating officer of some big company i don't need leadership skills actually you do you heard us talking about him today and the last podcast with jason wilson you interact with other people including your wife including your husband including your kids including your co-workers including your friends and your peers the people you train with if you interact with those people which you do you're in a leadership position

So we want to teach you the skills of leadership. So go to extremeownership.com to check those out. And if you want to help out service members active and retired, you want to help out their families, Gold Star families, check out Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee. She's got an incredible charity organization. And if you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to americasmightywarriors.org. Also check out heroesandhorses.org. This is Micah Fink's organization. I want you to go up there and visit with him.

It's up in Montana. Takes our veterans up into the woods where they go through a cleansing of the soul. That's heroesandhorses.org. Jimmy May has an organization, beyondthebrotherhood.org. And also, you've got theunion.org. This is Jason Wilson's organization, thewhyunion.org. Also, savingboys.com.

Instagram, YouTube, Twitter at cave313. Also, if you want to connect with Jason Wilson on the interwebs, mrjasonwilson.com and Twitter, Instagram, he's mrjasonowilson. So check those out. For us, you can find me at jocko.com. You can also find both of us on social media.

Do you have some kind of an interwebs website? - Nothing actionable. You're gonna go there and you're gonna be like whatever. - So don't worry about it. So if we're looking for you or me, they can find me with Jocko.com but they can find you at Equatrols on the social media activities. I'm at Jocko Willink on the social media activities. Just be careful 'cause don't let those activities turn into an addiction which is what happens.

Thanks once again to Jason Wilson for coming out here and spending all this time talking through his lessons learned, his protocols. Outstanding. Much appreciated. Thank you, Jason, for continuing to help people around the world. Also, thanks to the men and women of our armed forces who are out there on the front lines currently protecting us and our way of life.

Also, thanks to our police law enforcement firefighters paramedics EMTs dispatchers correctional officers Border Patrol Secret Service and all the other first responders who are doing the same thing Protecting us right here at home. Thank you all and everyone else out there in the book battle cry by Jason Wilson he refers to a quote that encapsulates a powerful idea and that idea is You must be broken to become whole and I think there's two aspects to that. I

Number one, if you want to become whole, you got to break yourself. That means you got to push yourself. That's how you become stronger, smarter, better. That's how you become whole. I think it's also important to think about the fact that the world's going to push you. The world is going to push you and break you. But that activity is what makes us strong and powerful and whole in the end. So if you want to be a comprehensive human.

In a sense, in the end, we must go for broke. Until next time, this is Echo and Jocko. Out.