Why Was Kendrick Lamar's Super Bowl Halftime Show So Controversial?
44:01 Share

This is a mini meditation guided by Bombas. Repeat after me. I'm comfy. I'm cozy. I have zero blisters on my toes. And that's because I wear Bombas. The softest socks, underwear, and t-shirts that give back. One purchased equals one donated. Now go to bombas.com slash listen and use code listen for 20% off your first purchase. That's bombas.com slash listen and use code listen at checkout.

This episode is brought to you by Nerds Gummy Clusters, the sweet treat that always elevates the vibe. With a sweet gummy surrounded with tangy, crunchy Nerds, every bite of Nerds Gummy Clusters brings you a whole new world of flavor. Whether it's game night, on the way to a concert, or kicking back with your crew, unleash your senses with Nerds Gummy Clusters.

I'm Brian Hyatt. This is Rolling Stone Music Now. Today I have with me Brittany Spanos and Rob Sheffield and we are going to talk about Kendrick Lamar at the Super Bowl, which just happened. We pretty much loved it, but there were some dissenting opinions out there. So

First of all, we wanted to talk about the jeans a lot. Bootcut jeans, but no boots. Dragging to the floor. Intriguing and controversial style move. We don't know what to make of it. We think that apparently bootcut jeans are coming back. It's very interesting. They're technically flares. Oh, okay. Like bell bottoms? Yeah, they're Celine flares. Okay. People found them online. But yeah, I was obsessed with them.

I feel like it was such a weird fashion choice for Kendrick that I really loved. Wow. Yeah, I think we should just stay on this. See how long people will listen if we just stay on the jeans. He didn't cover bell-bottom blues. That would have really been divisive. So yeah, I mean, I think what...

What surprised me, and I was saying before we started, is obviously people who don't understand hip-hop and or are super conservative and or racist or all of the above did not like the performance or were baffled by it. That is not surprising. But...

It was kind of surprising to me the extent to which even people who were in the world of hip hop had, to a certain extent, a mixed reaction to what I thought was a great performance. And I was trying to unpack why. I mean, part of it was, I guess people expected a greatest hits show, but the problem is, among other things, is he just did some of his hits in 2022 on the Super Bowl.

halftime show as part of that Dre medley, so he can't do the same thing again. And the new album, Gene X, is, I think, great. I think one of his best albums. What do you think it was, Brittany? Like, why do you think there's, like, kind of that mixed reaction out there, even from some hip-hop fans? Yeah, I mean, I think that's, like, been the biggest one I've seen, is the lack of the greatest hits element. Just because I feel like what I, like, idea of a

Super Bowl halftime show, especially the last few years, especially, has been sort of just like a highlight reel of a person's entire career. And so you're kind of like... Even having someone like Rihanna, who hasn't released music in a really long time, do it a couple years ago was meant to sort of be this. We're going through the entire history. So I feel like that sort of was...

the big part of it. It was kind of perfect because that album is really great. And I feel like also because he had one of the biggest songs of last year and spent a lot of time highlighting that song. And it just won record and song of the year at the Grammys. Like it definitely felt really good to kind of see him lean into like

current era Kendrick more than anything. And of course there was still like something, you know, he had like humble in there and, you know, kind of went and DNA and like went back a little bit. But I think for the most part it was, he was trying to tell this story. Like even when he previewed the halftime set, he was saying like, I'm, it's going to be storytelling. Like he's trying to like really highlight the narrative of this album and the thread of that.

This is a PSA, or Public Sock Announcement. Experts have declared Bombas socks as the best way to warm up chilly feet. These pairs are super cushy, soft, and designed for maximum coziness. Plus, for every pair purchased, another pair will be donated, so someone in need of essential clothing can stay warm this winter.

Go to bombas.com slash listen and use code listen for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash listen and use code listen at checkout.

There's one thing that will forever change the way you sleep, and it's the softest 100% organic cotton sheets from Bolin Branch. You'll fall asleep faster, wrapped in the most luxurious comfort. You'll never sleep hot again with sheets that feel breathable to sleep in. You'll experience the purest softness on night one and feel your sheets get even softer with every wash. Discover the difference with 50%.

Yeah, and the other strain of criticism I saw, Rob, is some people genuinely thought, apparently, that he shouldn't have played Not Like Us. What's up with these draconios, uh?

Despite the fact that it was one of the biggest songs of last year, the biggest song of his career, just one record in Song of the Year, as Brittany pointed out, but somehow, you know, it was that it was somehow undignified, you know, or something or gave made it too much about Drake or something. There was some kind of like squeamishness, a critique that people employed, despite the fact that he incorporated that potential critique into the show via Samuel L. Jackson.

Too loud, too reckless, too ghetto. Mr. Lamar, do you really know how to play the game? So it was weird to see that to me, Rahm. I mean, that was, for the most part, the show. The whole show was based around the question of like, will he or won't he? Will he do his controversial hit? Given that it was, as Brittany said, one of last year's biggest hits, it would have been a little weird if he didn't do it. It's basically the song that got him this gig. But...

The question was, will he do it? And there was that great sort of comic moment where he conferred with his squad of experts about whether he should do the song or not. And he said, I want to do their favorite song, but they love to sue. And he teased the keyboard riff and then thought better of it. But then at the end, he brought it back. He made that the whole centerpiece of his show. Yeah. In an unprecedented move in the history of hip hop beefs, Drake has launched some little

legal salvos over this song, suing Universal Music. He has suggested in these filings that the song is defamatory, although to be clear, he has not sued anyone directly on a claim of defamation. He has just brought other claims that within the claim say the song is defamatory. I don't know that he wants to expose himself to discovery.

on the precise nature of said claims. But anyway, I mean, I think there was, people were wondering on a legal basis, whether there was a, basically whether the NFL's lawyers, whether CBS is the CBS. Yeah. CBS, who knows what channels, anything, anything is on anywhere that whether CBS or whoever would prevent him from playing it. And he did, he did not wrap as everyone noted right away, did not wrap the word pedophile. Um,

He also didn't have to. He didn't have to. Same with A minor. Like, no, he didn't have to say it at all. Exactly. He also looked in my favorite moment, looked directly in the camera when he said, say Drake, I heard you like him young, gave the most like sort of evil or satisfied smile I've ever seen directly into the camera when he said, say Drake, which is sort of like,

Someone brought up the thing about the that headline where it's like elephant kills woman then returns to her funeral to abuse her body is sort of was that that move except with Drake Someone said he had serious Bugs Bunny energy Which is like kind of the most accurate way I've like see it was just like he had real he had real strong Bugs Bunny energy while doing not like us and

- That's so good. That's so good. - Perhaps the most, I do feel bad for Drake Stans in this time. There was a lot of heavy duty coping. And listen, we all like, I mean, I love Drake's music. He lost this battle though. He needs to take the L on this battle.

Some stans were saying that the real, sorry, I can't even say it with a straight face. The real victor was Drake because it just showed how much Drake was on Kendrick's mind. That's not totally wrong. I mean, Drake managed to be the whole story of the Super Bowl halftime show. I can't think of another time in history that any artist has made an entire Super Bowl halftime show about an artist who's never done the Super Bowl halftime show. Yeah.

It absolutely blows the mind. It's not like Rihanna came out and did her whole halftime show about Drake. It's never been done before. It was really wild. Kendrick wasn't just going for the low-hanging fruit. He was going through the dumpster for the fruit that he knocked off the tree last year.

digging that rotting fruit out of the bottom of the dumpster and going for that. It was a very straight down the middle sort of move. A more substantive critique that was brought by Craig Jenkins in New York Magazine and by other people, they felt that he was backsliding.

backing off from the explicitly political. Now, I would argue that there was a lot going on politically and symbolically in this set, but it wasn't as clear as, you know, as Rob, you mentioned his prior performance.

directly taking on police brutality and racism in a more explicit way. This didn't do that. This was more about, I would say, the idea of America and black America, which I mean, basically Dave Free, his creative partner, said explicitly in a Wall Street Journal article about the thing. But certainly there's a lot going on. But how do you two see it? I think there's been a lot of conversations around blackness.

Black artists and the use of the American flag in the last year. You know, obviously, like, I think there's been a lot of complicated feelings and criticism around a lot of the, like, aesthetic of, like, Cowboy Carter, for example. I think that's been interesting to see, like, conversations where it's kind of like a mix of, like, how you...

read it. I think there is something very subversive about how Kendrick is using it and how Beyonce is using it. I think patriotism within Black communities is very complex and very rare. It's a multi-layered sort of thing. And so I think there is a lot of that in there. I think the use of Samuel L. Jackson as this Uncle Sam figure, who is very explicitly in that Uncle Sam...

suit criticizing the show and criticizing calling it like he you know he's like it's too loud too reckless too ghetto like he's like saying things that are extremely critical of kendrick while kendrick's performing so i think that sort of made it a lot clearer but i do like i i feel like it's been interesting to kind of see the conversations over the last year because again like it's like two of our biggest artists who have also been like two of our most vocal about police brutality and like um

you know, kind of, especially during the first Trump administration, like, you know, very, very vocal critics of, of him and, um, of sort of American identity in that time, um, kind of bring back the American flag as sort of a, uh,

a point of their own like aesthetics and of their own sort of like performances lately. I guess it's like been sort of like a weird sort of is it saying much to just use it versus like actually sort of adding more to like the actual subversion of like

being those artists using it. Well, at one point he had, I believe during Humble, he had his dancers who were all, I believe, black men form an American flag out of their bodies. People were talking about that statement in that moment and maybe about a statement as, and especially the way they posed about America being built off the backs of black people was what people were interpreting, which is an interesting statement.

Which certainly is a heavy statement if intended. Yeah. I mean, I think people just like, I feel like with a lot of stuff, people just want stuff that's more like, I guess, direct instead of like more kind of ambiguous, which I think is like kind of unfair when you're talking about art where it's like, I think the kind of the implications of a lot of that is pretty clear without having, without him having to say something like, you know, we hate Trump or something like, you know, like, or like doing something like, like burning a flat, you know, like he wasn't going to do anything like,

super intense but I think the implications there are like pretty clear of like where he stands and like what the meaning of all the flag imagery is supposed to be like I think it's pretty obvious from just you know watching the performance but it is interesting to see the critiques because again it's like a conversation that I've seen so much over the last year in light of Cowboy Carter and like Americana in that context as well I

I was trying to remember when I spoke to him in 2017, what Kendrick said about Donald Trump. And I said, "Other than a few lyrics, you've been quiet about Donald Trump. Why?"

And he said, I mean, it's like beating a dead horse. We already know what it is. Are we going to keep talking about it? Are we going to take action? You just get to a point where you're tired of talking about it. It weighs you down and drains your energy when you're speaking about something or someone that's completely ridiculous. So on and off the album, I took it upon myself to take action in my own community. On the record, I made an action to not speak about what's going on in the world or the places they put us in. Speak on self, reflection of self first.

That's where the initial change will start from. That does seem kind of how he's been running his art and career for the past. Yeah. Wow. Eight years. Yeah. Yeah. But just as you pointed out three years ago at the Super Bowl, he did all right. And that was a pretty astounding moment. That was, you know, the Dr. Dre halftime show is pretty astounding on every level. But the shadow of Colin Kaepernick, like definitely hanging over it and the NFL ban on him for taking a knee. And the

The way that Kendrick doing all right in that context and the line, we hate Popo, got censored. But it was a case where he was going there three years ago in a way that he wasn't doing this time. Yeah. Yeah. And what do you make of that? It's an interesting choice. And it fits in with the quote that you were saying before. I probably could have used a little more all right.

a little more all right sort of energy, a little more pimple butterfly energy. If you watch this and you didn't know anything about Kendrick before last year, I mean, that's basically, this is the new model, not like us, Kendrick. So it was a case where, yeah,

doing these songs about Drake as opposed to another public figure who was right there at the game last night. Yeah. That would have been really different. At the same time. I can't imagine Donald Trump loved that performance. I,

I think Kendrick is one of those artists who has a finely tuned antenna to the times. And in some ineffable way, it felt like the right... It felt like the sort of ignoring on the surface of the Trump thing, you could argue, is the more powerful statement.

statement. I think there is something to the idea that you can do what you're trying to do, but we're also going to go on with our lives. And right now I'm going to go on with my business, which is largely hating Drake and destroying him on the largest stage I can possibly find. And I'm not going to let you take me off my mission of ruining Drake's life. I'm very focused on my mission right now. And that's the statement. That's Kendrick's tariff on Canada.

That's right. Canadian imports really took a hit last night. People have been really trying to find the right Canada, annexing Canada, Drake tariffs joke. We're almost there. I think if Canada became the 51st state, like, would that make the thing with Drake better or worse? Which side is Trump on?

He should be very pro-Kendrick because he's anti-Canada. I mean, it's a lot there. A lot to look at. His exes wouldn't have to worry about running out of pages in their passports. Kendrick, again, with the intended for the Times, he foreshadowed these US-Canada tensions. You know, he was the first one to realize that we're just not going to tolerate this shit from our neighbor to the north. Not like us.

Given Kendrick's track record just at the Super Bowl alone, his track record at the Super Bowl is making aggressive and principled statements as he did. I mean, absolutely nobody was requiring him to do all right at the Super Bowl three years ago. He only had one song to do. That was a super bold choice, a super intense choice. It worked fantastically in the moment. That whole halftime show really still holds up. And it

it definitely was pointed that he wasn't going anywhere near that kind of commentary last night. Yeah. I think, you know, fundamentally we touched on this. It is a very bold choice to do so many tracks from your new album at the Superbowl. I'm not sure. I'm not sure anyone has done that before. Have they? I mean, I was trying to think. No, you're right. It's very rare. Yeah. I

I can't think of a single one. Bruce Springsteen did include working on a dream in his set, but that was amid like five, five of his biggest songs. You know, Justin Timberlake's man of the woods set was very man of the woods heavy. Yes. That's a great example. I can't, I feel like there was, there was other, but actually I think it was,

think it was pretty... I think that, if I remember correctly, that set was very Man of the Woods heavy. And Justin's career has done impeccably since then, so we can't... Yeah, yeah, that was a good foreshadowing for him. Yeah. It's what everyone needed and wanted to hear was Man of the Woods. The Stones did a new song, and this was when they played the Super Bowl halftime in 2006, and they did a song from their new album called Rough Justice that nobody's heard since they did it at the Super Bowl. That was a pretty...

a pretty Jagger-esque move. Oh my God. You're not going to make me passionately defend rough. Yes, I'm going to have to do it. Rough justice is a great song. And actually it was used. It was actually used prominently in one of, in either an Avengers end game or the other big Avengers movie. So actually people did hear it and it sounded great in that movie. And that is a great song. So I, it, it,

It is better than any song on Man in the Woods and better than Working on a Dream. So I will not stand for this Rough Justice slander. All right. Brian is squabbling up. I'm squabbling up over Rough Justice.

With all your points absolutely conceded and accurate, Brian, that was still an extremely strange choice to go from that into satisfaction. Fair enough. I will actually jump back, and I'm looking at the Justin Timberlake set list, and no, it was nothing like the Kendrick one. It had a few things, but it had...

Rock your body sexy back Cry me a river Maybe in my head it was just overly I feel like the one man of the woods song was like Way too much for me Yeah it just felt like that Oh god Yeah you were just feeling man of the woods trauma It was like man of the woods Justin Covering

you know, like old sexy back justify Justin. It was like a tribute. Yeah. I think I've blocked out a lot of that performance because it says cry me a river with elements of Led Zeppelin's cashmere. I do remember that. Okay. Okay. I do remember that. It was a member and let us not talk falsely. Now the hour is getting late. Um, he did can't stop the feeling, which, um,

I know you're, you're still like the song, but yes, you're very pro you're, you're the opposite of a troll when it comes to that song. It's the rough justice of cartoon theme songs. I mean, I always admire Kendrick, but to go out there in an audience where, you know, of, uh,

what, like a hundred million? How many, what is the Superbowl audience? A hundred million. Yeah. A hundred million to play album deep cuts, which I didn't even, again, because I, I, I honestly was too deep in the, in the weeds here. Like as a Kendrick fan and as someone who spent so much time with that album, I was just like, Oh cool. More songs from the album I really liked, but I wasn't really thinking of what a bold choice that is for audiences who barely know him, let alone know his new album. Yeah. It's cool. I think it's uncompromising and awesome. And I think part of the logic was everyone, everyone,

knows or should know, not like us. So that kind of makes up for it. Yeah. It definitely is a case where quality makes a difference. The new songs he did were so incredibly great. SZA was so incredibly great. Yeah. Squabble Up is a great way to kick off any set in any context. I have to say the damn songs sounded so good that it's really funny how that album really

That's just an increasingly astounding album for an album that was so astounding at the time. But that was those songs sounded phenomenal at the Super Bowl. Yeah.

I mean, your point about quality is well taken because my initial thought before I realized how much a lot of people didn't enjoy the album cuts, I was like, oh, this just proves that GNX is basically like could be another artist's greatest hits album. That's how good most of the songs are. Peekaboo, I guess people really don't like. I like it fine. But people felt that Peekaboo was like a B-level song that could have been replaced by a more famous older song, which fair enough. TV Off, Squabble Up, Scissors sounded amazing.

It was so great to see her there. Yeah. And that tour is going to be great. Can't wait to see if she does her own halftime show. Yeah. Could happen. And Rob, you were pointing out, I mean, the other thing was this was the first, it's easy to forget, apparently the first solo hip hop headliner. Everyone else was in a group or package thing. It was a milestone in that. And Kendrick, other than SZA and DJ Mustard running on stage and Serena Williams dancing on stage,

Drake's grave, who really was a solo guest star free performance. It didn't have the Red Hot Chili Peppers popping up in the middle or whatever, you know, or Chris Martin suddenly appearing. It was very much Kendrick being Kendrick with just, you know, with SZA. Dr. Dre's set had a very hip hop past the mic spirit where he made a point of including 50 Cent to represent the East Coast. That was very much, there was a lot of outreach in that, in a very hip hop sense.

And it was very surprising aesthetically that Kendrick didn't put anyone on, especially since in his new album, he puts on a lot of lesser known artists and he didn't do any of that at the Super Bowl. He had a cameo for Mustard and a cameo for SZA. Neither one of those the least bit unexpected. But yeah.

It was surprising that it was that he conceded nothing to anybody who didn't know his catalog well. Yeah. Again, a totally uncompromising set and very much admirable in that sense.

You know what's smart? Enjoying a fresh gourmet meal at home that you didn't have to cook. Meet Factor, your loophole in the laws of mealtime. Chef-crafted meals delivered with a tap, ready in just two minutes. You know what's even smarter? Treating yourself without cheating your goals. Factor is dietician-approved, chef-prepared, and you-plated. Pretty smart, huh? Refresh your routine and eat smart with Factor. Learn more at factormeals.com.

When the game tips off, the NBA action is just beginning on FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook. Because FanDuel is your home for NBA live betting. However you want to play, now is the perfect time to join. Make every moment more with FanDuel, official sports betting partner of the NBA. 21 plus and present in Virginia. First online, real money wager only. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued is non-withdrawable bonus bets which expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER.

I do want to talk a little bit about the conservative reaction, just because I think it's notable in the sense that someone made a good point a while ago in a tweet, which is that there is this sense on the conservative side where they can't believe that... They really think that winning one election means everything they don't like in the culture is somehow going to go away. That suddenly...

the Super Bowl is going to be Pat Boone or Jelly Roll. You can win the presidency, you can win the House, you can win the Senate, but the entire, it doesn't mean you take over the culture. You know, America still exists, like hip hop still exists, black artists still exist. The world isn't going to like go back to 1953. It's just not going to happen. They seem stunned that

They didn't literally just turn the clock back. It's fascinating and appalling to me that they're still so shocked that there could be a rapper headlining the Super Bowl. It's really something to me. I've left you speechless.

I think it's also just like the vacuum of conservatives just being angry online for no reason constantly, where it's just like the thing of the day that they kind of need to be sort of riled up about. Yeah.

and make into a thing and make it to a whole cycle for themselves. They're kind of like hungry to constantly be like pissed off about something. This one was so irrational that there actually were a couple of MAGA people posting, you know what? Maybe we don't need to be mad about this. I actually didn't see anything to be mad about. They couldn't even detect any quote unquote satanic messages. There was just nothing there really. There's a take that's not going to get any traction. You don't get any points like...

in that particular contest by not being offended at things. Being offended by things is their reason to live. I did really, I retweeted the post where someone said that white people are out there saying they couldn't understand Kendrick was saying, and then they go put on Pearl Jam records. I really did enjoy that. It's a fair point.

Were conservatives mad about John Batiste's excellent national anthem where he sang Land of the Free three times? You know, they should have been. I don't understand why they weren't. Honestly, I would think that the conservatives would be so much more.

so outraged at John Batiste and I think they would have loved the Kendrick performance honestly that seemed to like be totally like at home with a mag aesthetic whereas like John Batiste was very pointedly making it um let me remind you land of the free right right with a big smile too yes yeah no I really I really thought a great national anthem it was it was one of the it was one of the only listenable it actually stands with you know Marvin Gaye did a famously great national anthem um

It was really great. And I love the fact that he added like a blues jazz piano to it. And yet the land of the free three times was very pointed. And it's worth noting that John Batiste was just booted off the board of the Kennedy center so that Trump can take it over and presumably make it the annual kid rock celebration. He has specific plans.

beef. Surprising for me, like non-controversy. I would think the conservatives would have been like outraged over that as opposed to Kendrick. And it was a very pointed performance. I mean, sometimes people add an extra the brave at the end. Reba did that last year and Gladys Knight did it a few years ago. And of course, that is infuriating for gamblers who bet on the over under for the Super Bowl time.

to the point where some sports books have decreed that only the first, the brave counts. If you add an extra, the brave, it doesn't count for the time. The big issue with Reba McEntire last year, because she hit the under if you don't count the second, the brave, but if you do, she hit the over.

And amazingly, John Batiste managed to just hit the under with that. The over under was was 120.5 seconds. And he came in just under the wire, even though he added extra land of the freeze. Pretty impressive all around. Also, I never thought anybody would play the piano for the Super Bowl National Anthem again, because the last time they let somebody play the piano, it was Alicia Keys. Dretched it out.

And it's a little improv freestyles all throughout. So I was kind of amazed that they even gave John Batiste the green light to have that wonderful piano decorated by his wife on the field with him. I thought that was just a fantastic moment all around. I mean, in general, I've never seen anything like Kendrick's last year. I've never seen an artist who already was at the

the level of acclaim and respect and achievement that he already has been kind of go

go from an album that was interestingly sort of problematic. Mr. Morale and the Big Steppers, I had an episode about that, which is it was one of those interestingly difficult, deliberately uncommercial, deliberately mythos shattering albums. That's not necessarily super fun to listen to and seemed like he was kind of in a dark and complex place. And then through one of the most vicious hip hop beefs of all time,

seemingly find his way back to a place where he wanted to make crowd-pleasing music,

took the climactic song and the beef and made it into his biggest hit yet and the biggest rap hit of the last year, then released an incredibly crowd-pleasing album that picks up kind of where Damn left off instead of where Mr. Morale left off, but with a whole new sound, plays the Super Bowl, wins song and record of the year, is about to go on a big tour and seems to be

on this new phase of his career where he now, people a year ago were kind of, would debate, would say that Drake was better. I mean, that was, you know, there were a lot of people on Twitter who were on Drake's side at first, not even in the sense that, but just that they literally thought he was a better rapper, which I frankly, I mean, I like Drake, but I think I don't understand that. People confuse chart,

success with making someone like better in a competition. Like, and Drake has had a lot, I mean, Drake has had a lot of hits, but Kendrick has like a Pulitzer of medium that's based on language. That's a pretty big one for him to have. So, you know, he's got more slaps than William Faulkner. Yeah.

an even bigger kind of like f you to drake is the fact that the song became so big kendrick's biggest hit and drake prizes himself on having the most hits of anyone and breaking all these records and like for him to not get anything out of this beef like he didn't have like one song take off like none of them created a moment and for kendrick to kind of have that sort of like like

to, like, 2019 type of Drake presence on the charts and in, like, clubs is... has, like, made it so much more, like, profound and so much more of a bigger kind of win for him because he's...

he took that one thing that was sort of the argument for Drake being better away. The song is, is like now a wedding and bat mitzvah song too. It's everywhere. Everyone knows it. Like it's, you know, it's crazy. It's crazy. It's absolutely crazy. Obviously it's sort of an apples and oranges talent competition between them. It's, you know, they have different strengths. Even Kendrick says he likes Drake with the melodies. But my question is,

for the two of you is can Drake come back? How does Drake come back? How does it work from here? Because no one's had to grapple with this exact scenario before. It's a very strange position for Drake to be in. Like, it's

As Brittany pointed out, I mean, and that's really kind of like a crucial point. It's one thing for Drake to be outflanked artistically, but to be outflanked commercially by the guy who's supposed to be the edgy, non-mainstream artist in this beef is absolutely bizarre. It was really funny at the Super Bowl when Uncle Samuel L. Jackson, his role was that he had to keep telling Kendrick not to do anything.

Not Like Us, because it was too edgy, too hip hop that the mainstream America wanted nice, calm, slow jams. And yet, Not Like Us is more popular than all the other songs that Kendrick did at the Super Bowl combined. It's his crowd-pleasing hit. And as you said, Brian, there's just no precedent for that. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's like, I think even before Not Like Us, there was some juice in the...

and the Drake machine that was already kind of starting to slip away. And I think it would be interesting to see what he does next, because I think oftentimes like the way that he sort of has slipped around sort of the cringier or more controversial or like weirder Drake moments is just by putting out a bunch of really great solid albums and hits. Um,

you know, and like that was really his biggest strength is like making songs that were just like really fun and ended up being really big and having like that type of energy that Not Like Us has had for the last year of being played out of cars and being played at parties and like being sort of like everyone kind of knows all these songs. I think he's kind of been in his head prior to that where he's been making a lot of things to try to like chase trends or chase things that are sort of like happening.

with younger artists. And I'm kind of curious if he can get out of his head in that way and actually like make a really fun song again, because that's always been his strength. Like being tough has never been a strength. It's like making like

party songs that he's always been really good at. And with like taking L's as sort of, you know, his narrative. I mean, Drake has taken lots of L's before. This is different from all the others, but they're always different from all the others. And part of his persona, part of his thing is always, you know, like crawling back after a humiliation. Yeah. He likes to do it that way. You know, Britain, you mentioned Hotline Bling. That's a song like about being humiliated and rejected. Yeah.

I think he's going to go right on being Drake and that this is another L for him to add to his collection. That's how we love Drake. I was listening to Nice For What and thinking like, wow, the women in this song at the club showing out, they're dancing to Not Like Us. Yeah. Like, not a Drake song. And that kind of humiliation for Drake, I think, is artistic fuel. Yeah.

Yeah, and I guess the stans do have a point, which they point out that he was watching the Super Bowl halftime show from his $50 million mansion. So he'll be all right. Can't have been easy, but I imagine he'll be okay. And he does seem to have a truly unsquashable ego. I think someone perhaps a bit more fragile would be...

would find the fact that a song that directly calls you a pedophile was one of the biggest songs of last year and won record of the year, song of the year, and was then performed at the Super Bowl, would find that a little devastating. But I have a feeling that his ego is such that he'll be okay. I also think the ego is the thing that's going to get in the way of him making a great song again. And I worry about that as someone who liked the peak of Drake a lot. Yeah.

But we'll see. I don't know. I think he can maybe, I'm always surprised at how Drake can sort of dick himself out of every hole. I'm sure like this can be its own creative fodder, but I'm curious what that will look like or when that will happen. He definitely can't do like an eight mile thing where he's like, yes, I am. No, that's not the, that's not the, that's the one I would advise against that stuff.

That approach. That's not the way to go, Drake. Don't do that. And as I've said before, talking to Andre, he's not. Like, he's not. It's not literally true. It's, you know, any more than Kedrick is a wife beater, which Drake was trying to

put on Kendrick, which as people pointed out, kind of makes it a little bit hard to be like, this fight was totally in bounds until you went there, which it kind of was not. But I wish him luck both in the courts and on the charts. What can we say?

And finally, I mean, we know that Jay-Z and Roc Nation are doing the Super Bowl for at least several years to come. They've re-signed. So it's interesting to think who's next, you know? I mean, my Super Bowl watch party really wants Bad Bunny to do...

That seems quite probable. Yeah. And I think that would be excellent. I would love for Bad Bunny to do it. That would be phenomenal. If and when Bad Bunny takes the stage next year, imagine if he just also takes a swipe at Drake. Like it becomes a tradition that whoever plays the Super Bowl just like shits on Drake every single year until time immemorial, until no one even remembers who Drake is, but they're still doing it 50 years from now. When people said that, I was really baffled by...

People saying like the Kendrick show is low energy. I think it was the sound issues. Like the sound issues are really, really crazy. Like it was like kind of wild that they did that to him. Like it was like...

Cause it sounded like the, the backing track was really, really low. And so it was really just like his vocals, which like didn't like, I mean, we're great, but it was just like, didn't really hit as hard. And so like watching it back this morning, I was like, this is like great. But then you're watching it with like this really low backing track and you're like, okay, what is going on?

For some reason, I didn't, I heard a lot of people say that I didn't perceive that, but maybe it was just, maybe it was just the particular way I had the sound set up or something. But I know that on the YouTube we were discussing this, they, they nicely fix it all up once they posted officially on NFL. So you could never tell if there was an issue, you could never tell. It sounds perfect now. Um, but I will say when people were saying low energy, I was like, were they thinking of the Rihanna performance? Cause I still love that one. I will still go to bat for that one, Brian. Um,

But it, like in terms of energy, uh, it was very poorly lit, uh, performance. It was all pretty much poorly lit and the audio was poor. Yeah. So that could explain a lot. Yeah, sure. I mean, if you're, I guess if, if you don't know the songs, it's poorly lit and it sounds bad. It does. I can see why that, that would, uh, that would affect people. I just feel like technically very simple compared to like a halftime show.

Like I think they had a hundred dancers coming out of a car. No, I mean like, but you know, like you think of like, like Gaga comes down and like the harness, like flying through the sky. Like there's always, you know, like, like the stages moving and like, you know, pyrotechnics and all this like crazy stuff happening. Um, where it's almost like most halftime shows are so like, like overstimulating in a lot of ways. Um,

And I think that people are probably like comparing it to that. But I think, I think it's very effective what he did in terms of the dancers as like this, like movement throughout it. But in the sort of comparison to other halftime shows, like a little less of that sort of like crazy, you know, crazy kind of technical stuff to it. Like,

Like it was built on like the body sort of being like the set and the, and the movement to it. I still feel like overall, I somehow saw a different set than many people saw. I just feel like my reactions are so different that I can't even fathom it. I also think it's a really interesting thing because when you have a

a piece of entertainment trying to appeal to 100 million people in a country that's more fractured than ever, both politically and taste-wise. I was bummed to see so many older classic rock fans

Not all. Some were like, you do get the thing like, I didn't know his music, but I thought it was really impressive. And I didn't know who that young woman was, but she sang nicely. And I always appreciate that reaction. I feel like that's the purest and nicest reaction. But there were so many people who just are just shut off to it. And I do feel like we've lost that ability. Like people just feel more closed off than ever. And it sucks. And it's part of the political environment. It's part of the entertainment environment. It just, it's so hard in this siloed,

society we have to find anything that can actually appeal to 100 million people. You say that the country is more fractured than ever. How do you assess...

the future of that given Snoop and Tom Brady letting the healing begin. You mean after? I'm sorry, I meant before that commercial. That fixed everything. Hate is on the way out. There's no way I can withstand Snoop and Tom Brady yelling at each other. Why was Timothee Chalamet interviewing Kendrick Lamar? Timothee, why were you doing that? Because you are Bob Dylan now? What were you doing there? Why did that happen?

I love every, every single choice he's made for the last like two months. Boy, me too. I hope Timmy does the halftime show next year. That's right. I hope the halftime show next year is he just comes out and like lip syncs divisions of Johanna three times. Yes. And he wears the, um, the New York premiere outfit with the beanie and the blonde wig. And he does the performance. And with that, Robin Brittany, thank you very much for joining me. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Brian and Brittany. Always a joy. And that's our show. We'll be back next week. In the meantime, subscribe to Rolling Stone Music Now wherever you get your podcasts. And please leave us five stars and a nice review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify because that's always appreciated. But as always, thanks so much for listening and we will see you next week.

Dear old work platform, it's not you, it's us. Actually, it is you. Endless onboarding? Constant IT bottlenecks? We've had enough. We need a platform that just gets us. And to be honest, we've met someone new.

They're called Monday.com, and it was love at first onboarding. They're beautiful dashboards. They're customizable workflows that is floating on a digital cloud nine. So no hard feelings, but we're moving on. Monday.com, the first work platform you'll love to use.

Bravo TV star Lala Kent holds nothing back. Like, I go into a full spiral. Get to know the TV personality. I talked about this with Teresa Giudice. Remember when I pushed Andy Cohen? Yes, it was iconic. Okay. The entrepreneur. What are we manifesting in 2025? And the mom. Sosa is a dream baby. Your kids are older. It's Bravo children. The celebrity children of celebrity Bravo love. Give them Lala.

Follow and listen on your favorite platform. Panoply.