375: The Future of Aging: Ancient Secrets for Healthy Longevity | Dr. Anurag Singh
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Welcome to the Ancient Health Podcast, where East meets West in the world of medicine. I'm Dr. Chris Motley, and here we explore how modern Western science and traditional Eastern wisdom come together to unlock the body's full healing potential. Each week, we'll dive into powerful tools, techniques, and approaches from both sides of the world to help you optimize your health and live with vitality. Let's bridge the gap between ancient practices and cutting-edge medicine. Let's get started.

Hello friends, welcome to the Ancient Health Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Chris Motley, and today I have a very special guest with me. I have to say that he's one of the smartest docs that I've seen on social media, but also he is the chief medical officer at Timeline. And Timeline is a beautiful supplement that I recommend to my patients about anti-aging, and it has to do with mitochondria and energy production as we get older.

Dr. Anurag Singh is one of the brightest minds I've seen so far online. And, Doc, I just want to say thank you so much for coming on today and talking with us. A pleasure is all mine, Dr. Mahmood. Thanks for having me. Well, I know that when we talk about timeline, we're talking about time.

cellular energy. But before we get into that, Doc, I'd love to find out more about you as well. What is the passion that brought you into learning about and studying mitochondria, cellular energy, and aging? Sure, yeah. So I trained as an internal medicine physician about 25 years back, and so trained as a young, very young physician.

uh, doctor and I was, um, seeing all these old people in, in my clinic. I trained initially in India and then I did my advanced fellowship in the, in the U S and, and it was really then seeing many of these, you know, older people walk in with chronic ailments, which, um,

you know, it was almost too late to do much about it. It was more symptom management and delaying the inevitable. And I really, you know, interacting with these patients at that time, I realized a lot of them had COPD, heart conditions, et cetera, that much of the damage was happening as a way of their lifestyle and,

and diet, exercise, et cetera, much earlier on. And so that got me interested in doing medical research. So I ended up getting a PhD in immunology, and I was really studying how the immune system ages from the time you go from 40, 50 to 70, 80 years. And again, it became very clear to me that a lot of the sort of the immune aging processes

happens in two waves, one in the early 40s, and one in the mid 60s. And so that it's been 20 years of going down that rabbit hole of research and longevity and really figuring out and yeah, a lot of it is point to what we've talked about mitochondrial dysfunction.

Wow. So, Doc, when you talked about that, the age gap of 40 to 60, was there particular reasons like we will probably get into that. But did you see like a huge issue within the cells between 40 and 60 that people started having problems? Yeah. So what we started looking at different ages, 20, 30 year olds and.

40, 50, 60 year olds and even much older. What became very clear in most of my early research was in immune cells and muscle cells was very clear was people who were exercising all their life. You know, if you look at a 70 year old person who's been training for half marathons, running, you

half marathons, most of their life, their muscle cells pretty much look like a 30, 40-year-old's muscle cells. So exercise is probably the number one longevity elixir, and we all need to somehow incorporate it. Now, if you look at the same age-matched 70-year-old who has been sedentary all their life, theirs just looks like a train wreck. And when I mean a train wreck, it really means if you do muscle biopsies or you take

blood draws and look at the immune cells, the mitochondria were super short shot in these and their cells had a lot of what I call markers of cellular stress and damage. And so you're basically like a factory of damaged goods sitting on and that drives the whole aging trajectory. Wow. So we have the damaged goods. And so you're saying like actually the internal parts of our cells can actually age or mitochondria can actually get aged and

When you were seeing this, I would love to later when we talk about age, I've heard that different cells have different amounts of mitochondria. So it's really, really important to know like the brain power, the muscle power and the organs. And when we talk about mitochondria,

The discoveries with, let's go into like urolithin A, not trying to jump too far ahead, but did you find certain things was starting to decrease the age internally of the cells? Like what is that natural process and what started to hinder the aging process from your research? Yeah, so the best way is to start looking at cells and smaller species. That's how most of aging research or longevity research starts to happen is aging.

You're trying to benchmark to something which is the gold standard, which is caloric restriction, caloric restriction. If you look at flies or preclinical models of different species, rodents, smaller species, if you just give 15%, 20% less food in their diet, these...

cells in these species will live about 40% longer. So this is well documented and that's pretty much the gold standard of longevity research. So when you start in the way we started was we knew the mitochondria were damaged and we knew the cells were stressed and inflamed.

Something else we pick up in sort of all the longevity research studies is that the damaged parts of the cellular organelles, they become almost like inflammatory provokers. So they provoke a huge inflammatory response. And so what we did was we screened about 4,000 plus natural compounds. And of those, we found a few that were

improving mitochondrial health, and we benchmarked them. And that's how we discovered Uraltinate.

Wow. So urolithin A, can you talk a bit about that, Doc? What is urolithin A? What is that compound? Yeah. So, you know, we started with, we looked at all the literature in nutrition about 15 years back when we started with this idea. And there were things like berries, nuts, pomegranates that are, you know, part of what, you know, what we know are superfoods and, you know, sort of superfruits. There's always in every culture you read,

the ancient textbooks you'll find the pomegranate as a sort of a super fruit and they're pretty much same and if you look at all the

let's say the evidence on mediterranean diet it's it's you know eating nuts and berries and so we started looking at these super fruits and we found that it's well known that these have antioxidants and things will be called polyphenols which are complex health promoting natural compounds now when we put them on these muscle cells that had damaged mitochondria as i was telling you or lower species they were not showing us uh any benefit and that started

puzzling us. And so we started focusing into what we call postbiotics. Now postbiotics are basically if you drink a glass of pomegranate juice, you're taking these antioxidants, your gut microbiome will digest these very complex phenolic compounds and break them into smaller, simpler species. And this is what postbiotics are, or the other name is gut metabolites.

And so what we found was that urolitin A was this one gut metabolite or postbiotic that was having these remarkable health benefits but not the dietary precursors. Wow. So it was actually breaking down the components within the gut to actually help with your cells and be able to actually metabolize. And, Doc, when we talk about aging, different people, different areas have different types of cellular damage. Right.

If you repair with urolithin A, you're noticing like, is there a percentage of time increase in a person's lifespan if you start to heal the mitochondria? Yeah. So if you let's work backwards, let's say if you look at smaller species, uh,

if you supplement the flies and the worms, which is where all the longevity research starts, we start seeing about almost a 45% increase in life extension and mobility. I mean, in humans, it's almost impossible to do these studies because you basically have to take hundreds of individuals and follow them to all their life. So those studies have not been done. But what we have done is we have looked at...

sedentary non-exercising folks and given them four months of urolitin A and seen about a 12 to 15 percent improvement in things like strength and functional capacity. That is amazing. Do you find with the

mitochondrial degradation. That's called, is that called mitophagy? Is that correct? You got it. This is what I call the Pac-Man inside your cells. So basically all the damaged mitochondria, they take all the real estate and the body is

There's no real estate left, and so mitophagy is that process that you need to activate during AIDS. Wow. So if you activate it, Doc, it means like the damaged portions of the mitochondria have to be some way recycled and repaired or reused to actually – because there's no real estate left in your cells. Like basically you have to be reused. And when you have that, Doc, you were saying that when the mitochondria break down, it creates –

particles that basically can be seen as, as inflammatory. You're saying that those can be inflammatory within your cells. Your body looks at them as inflammatory agents. Yeah. If you have too much of damaged mitochondria, then you have what I call sort of the leakiness of the mitochondria have their own DNA. Okay. Oh,

Mitochondria, just for your audience, are evolutionary. These ancient bacteria that are created with the human cell and provide all the necessary energy for the human cells to survive. So what happens with...

with sort of this recycling process exactly how you described is that, you know, if you can't clean out the damaged mitochondria, these leak into systemic circulation and these become triggers for chronic inflammation and everybody who's aging is inflamed.

Wow. So, Doc, if you have a person who's an athlete or somebody who pushes their body, yes, you can have quicker degradation or injury to the mitochondria. So people out there listening say, what are some of your main drivers you see in the environment of inflammation or mitochondrial damage? What pushes us to like really hurt our mitochondria at a higher level?

Oh, I believe we are now in a world where we are exposed to so many mitochondrial toxins and mitochondrial triggers of mitochondrial damage. The top three or five, I would say, and there are many more, but the number one is inactivity. It's our sedentary lifestyle. We used to walk. Our forefathers would walk.

many, many hours to find food and gather food. We've lost that, right? And if you just look at a sedentary person's muscle cells versus exercising, even if it's an 80 year old person, it's remarkable how damaged the mitochondria are in a sedentary person. And I've done over thousands of muscle biopsies and seen in hundreds of these folks, that's the number one factor. Second is all the overeating, processed food,

habits. So, you know, things like fasting do help. You know, that's why fasting, intermittent fasting, calorie restriction, you're starting to hear more and more because eating 10, 20% less is very helpful. It gives your mitochondria time to do this self-renewal and cleaning out

The others would be all the poly medication things like statins. Statins are extremely damaging, for example, to the mitochondria. And a lot of times you'll see practitioners give CoQ10 and other mitochondria nutrients because they know some of these drugs are having a sort of not very beneficial effect on mitochondria. And then, yeah, everything we are

you know, stress, our circadian rhythms, all these are very closely linked to mitochondria. And you've said something really interesting, Doc, about how like the inflammatory agents from, you know, the aging mitochondria, you have these external stressors. You were talking about like the postbiotic. How important, I guess, is gut health or gut stamina to mitochondrial health, to the aging process with this whole process?

I think this is really what I see is one of the biggest frontiers of medicine right now is figuring out what is the perfect gut microbiome. Because I do believe every chronic ailment that we in the society today have, whether it's neurodegenerative diseases, cognitive decline, or poor health,

muscle health, all that peak of food allergies and IBD, all boils down to the gut microbiome. And we have seen the gut microbiome of a healthy 75, 80-year-old also versus a sedentary 75, 80-year-old. And so I've gone around actually looking at the prevalence of urolithin A production, because I believe if you have good gut health, you should be able to produce this molecule. And believe it or not, only about

20 to 30% people who think they're healthy have the ability to make this molecule, meaning only about one-third of the world has what I call the right gut. Wow. So it does take a certain type of probiotic or biotic in your gut to actually help you produce this, and only one-third has it. So...

With urolithin A, would it mean that you would have to have higher concentrations of urolithin A? If a person can't produce it on their own, they would have to have a certain amount to daily sustain their mitochondria? Do they need to take extra? Because you're saying they come from pomegranates.

Yeah, so pomegranates is a precursor. So if you're eating a bowl of berries or you're drinking a glass of pomegranate, you're doing 50% now. The other remaining 50% of the job needed to produce urolithin A at optimal levels is having this healthy gut microbiome. And I think we've gone to different parts of the world in Europe and the U.S. and Canada,

the French and the Italians, probably that's the 30% number I'm giving you. And when I say 30%, it's not all or none. It's very variable levels of your litany that you will see in the U S it's like only 10 to 12, 15% people have the, are getting exposed to your litany. So what I mean is that everybody needs to, whoever doesn't have or

or doesn't have the capacity, tested my own gut microbiome, I can't make it because I took a lot of antibiotics growing up and my gut microbiome has never receded to its healthy state. And so folks like me and others who can make it need to supplement it to derive the health benefits. And those that make it, well, they can take lower doses, but they need a certain threshold to see the health benefits.

Because I think it's so interesting, Doc, that this compound can actually come in and actually help your mitochondria repair themselves. So when we see that we can actually supplement with it and people can actually start to stabilize their aging process, are you seeing individuals that have, let's say, some brain issues, like memory issues, brain fog, those kind of conditions, are they actually being helped as well whenever you supply your Lithon A?

So we haven't really done the hardcore randomized placebo control trials in, let's say,

The reason that the regulatory bodies can see it more as a drug trial versus a nutritional trial That's one of the reasons but in the populations we have tested it and and that goes from a 21 year old Olympian middle since runner to and Lady with fatigue issues. We have supplement this and tested at different clinical trial populations and I can tell you in the older adults it improves their

strength and endurance of people can go about 20% longer doing their daily activities. And folks like me, mid 40s, early 50s,

What we are seeing is that in the absence of radically changing your diet or exercise levels, it imparts a benefit to your muscle strength and muscle performance. And even in the sort of the athletic population, like the middle distance runner I was talking about, we see that overtraining is inducing mitochondrial damage and inflammation. And this molecule, urolithane, can help dampen some of that muscle damage and inflammation.

Now, consumers, you know, we've been...

commercializing this for a few years and people are writing to me that it's helping for a number of things that you talked about, things like brain fog, et cetera. That's with doc, with this though, too, how old should a person start with this? Then you're saying like the young people who did have damage and you have an older person, does it, do they start pretty young, like taking your, I think the sweet spot is really in the starting 40 and be above because the,

we have done work where we have looked at where are the biggest changes happening at a molecular level and others, Stanford just published a group in Stanford just published. They took about hundreds of individuals and they tracked them from their forties to the seventies.

70s must have been a long 30 year study. And what they did was they actually every few years, they went and looked at their all the proteins in their blood. And it's really clear that there's two seminal shifts in sort of the aging phenotype. One happens in the early 40s and one happens sort of in the in the early 60s. And so I believe you don't need to wait for the second one, the sweet spot of where most of the aging changes are starting to

upset the foundation of cellular health actually happened around the 40 plus population. Now, there are athletes, there are gym goers who can benefit from it even earlier. And we have done studies showing that. Yes, I would...

I started taking it, Doc, and I was actually telling my nephews. They're like in their early 20s. I was like, you need to get on this stuff because I think about the amount of gut damage that I put in my own body at a young age. I mean, Doc, I drank a lot of Coca-Cola. I ate Pop-Tarts, and I could see them taking to cut this off at the past. So you're repairing with this cellular debris like the mitochondria. Do they find like –

We were talking before about mitochondria being in different areas, like they have higher amounts of these little mitochondria. And I'm not trying to shift too much, but you say the 40 to 60 spot, people out there listening like,

There are some things that I call MTHFR. I know you know all about this and you can talk about it. I'm not trying to go down this rabbit hole too much. But when they get to 40 and 60, is it because like the genes also kind of – is that what it is? The genes start to wear out because of all the toxicities and debris? Yeah, so this is a concept where what you'll hear people talk about biological age a lot. This is sort of these –

methylation pattern. So it's sort of, you know, your, your, your, your genetics, your, your DNA is like a compact disc. So if you think about your compact disc that you've had for the last 20 years, it has a lot of scratches on it because it's just, you know, if you're playing, uh, and, and so we just count the number of scratches, uh,

on the on the genome that that shows different things your diet your stress level and this is you know um that this has led to almost uh in in the longevity field this whole idea that

There's something called your chronological age. So for example, I'm 47 years old, but maybe I've been eating well, I've been taking my supplementation, things like urolatin A, I try to do some fasting here and there. And so maybe my biological age could be lower. Maybe it could be the age of a 40 year old. So that's how the field is progressing in terms of changing the mindset of medical practice from treating symptoms to

to really thinking about cellular health. With that cellular aging, so your body could be this age, your cell could be another. What is the test that you like to use? I'm not trying to promote any lab, but is there a particular test you like to use for that? So there are lots and lots of tests, and I would say this has become sort of even a marketing tool.

who's, who's is better. So I think all these tests are picking up the same signal. It's just how we interpret them. Uh, in all my, well, in,

my latest randomized clinical trial, I've been using something from a US-based company called True Diagnostics. And they look at a whole body sort of effect. And they, you know, it's looking also at things like immune age. They tell you from your immune cells, what is, could it be even your muscle age or your brain age? So they have this sort of very

whole body approach to it. And just the robustness of the data is good. There are other things coming up in the field where, you know, you can even get a scan of your face and at a very high resolution and it can pick up things like, you know, how much are your wrinkles and things like this and give you your facial aid. Wow.

what I call the multi-component aging score. Yeah, because, Doc, I know you know more about this than I do, but you know like in the facial, like the creases? Because in Chinese medicine, I always look at facial diagnosis and hand diagnosis and the lines and how certain lines relate to certain organs. And again, guys out there, I'm not trying to go on a rabbit trail, but they're talking about how there's technology that

can use the facial nerve with all the nerve endings and see all the lines in the face and can actually get a graph of what your brain is thinking or how your brain is operating. And I just think the technology, doctor, is like really going forward. And I mean, I'm looking forward to this. Is that what's also able to help skin like the outward appearance as well, like with urolithin A? Yeah, I mean, it started with a very...

two very simple ideas. One was folks who were the early adopters on our oral products coming and telling, hey, my husband just told me my skin is looking very good and I'm taking your pills. What is the data you have on skin? And the second one was in parallel us asking, well, we know this product

great gut compound, this gut postbiotic urolithin A is having these remarkable effects on muscle and brain cells, which have a lot of mitochondria. What about skin cells mitochondria? And so we actually found evidence that if you look at a

30, 40-year-old person's skin cells and 65-year-old skin cells, the mitochondria are, again, very similar, like the muscle cells. In the older person, the mitochondria are shot. In the younger person, they're healthy and

and vibrant. And so that basically seeded the idea, let's put it in creams and do more clinical-based research to show that, you know, is there an effect on signs of skin aging and hallmarks of skin aging? And it was very similar. It improves the mitochondrial

regenerative capacity and it has an effect on skin inflammation which you know we all are getting slammed by harmful UV rays pollutants in the environment even things like you know soaps and shampoos so I think that there is the evidence is very consistent I mean that's amazing dark when you say like how it's like literally like helping us age further so let's say

You said like in your 40s to 50s, you had a bad – your diet caused this overgrowth. So people out there listening saying, okay, what's your hallmark of saying how many would I take? So if you –

If you got your cellular damage report back, do you recommend like one a day, two a day, three a day according to your damage? Or is there like a normal dosage? You know, I'm an evidence-based person. I'm a clinical trialist. So I have to go by the data I see in randomized placebo-controlled studies, which for me is the topmost evidence bar. And so what we see is 500 milligram, which is two pills if you're taking pills. Or we also have a powder version, which is one sachet.

of 500 milligrams of urolithinase. So 500 milligrams of urolithinase or MitoPure sounds like the sweet spot at which if you're healthy, if you're doing the good stuff, if you're sleeping well, if you're eating well, if you're exercising well,

you know, that, that is kind of the foundational dose that keeps your, uh, cells in, in a happy state, if I can call that, and your mitochondria in a happy state. Now, when we go higher in our studies and, and folks who are, who have more inflammation or have lower, uh, uh,

energy levels, they get fatigued more, we see the higher doses giving even an augmented effect in addition. And so it's again, just like any practitioner, if you see somebody who has very high C-reactive protein, for example, this is a biomarker of inflammation in the body, or people

People who have fatigue, who don't have a lot left in the tank at the end of the day, I would start a bit higher, a gram. And then once they feel the energy boost, they can switch back to 500 milligram. And there are folks who, as I said, who are blessed, who may be already making it, and they can even take even a lower dose if they want.

I am so impressed because, doctor, I'm always like I'm here in the clinic, usually working with patients pretty much all day. And I started taking that when I first got a while back. And I have noticed that my longevity during the day has been even my keen, my awareness in my brain has gotten so much more steady. Like I can go till late. I'm not suggesting that you just work all day, but I found that my energy levels have gotten longer, but a very good steady.

energy, not like a hyped up energy. It's a very steady calm. So not only does it help with aging and it helps with the actual mitochondria healing, what are you seeing in the future of mitochondria health? Maybe that's a big question, but what do you see like the forum going with urolithin A or with mitochondria health in general? Yeah. So

I believe where we are at in terms of, you know, we've been at it for 15 years of research and now more and more top scientists and clinicians are starting to study it. So, for example, just last year, we had three groups report independently, one from Harvard, one from the Buck Institute in California, and one here in Europe, all showing that during COVID,

cognitive damage with the aging process, the number one shot biological pathway was mitophagy, meaning that the neurons, which have, as you were saying, thousands and thousands of mitochondria, once all these get damaged, they just can't be cleaned up. And so if you look in the brains of people with any kind of dementia, all you find is damaged mitochondria around cells. And so what they found was

after screening many drugs or natural compound was that urolatin A was one of the most potent at clearing this damage out. So I think that for me is really the big area where I see our research and others research going is how does this augment cognitive health and the decline

Because, you know, the two things that really hit you when you age, one is your mobility and the other is your cognitive capacity. And the third probably is a weakened immune system. So if you can improve these three, I think you can really impact health span. And so I think that's where the longevity field is now going to move, is trying to see interventions that can attack all these three key factors.

Is there, Doc, a certain type of exercise? Maybe that's reaching too much, but do you think that with mitochondrial health that you think high intensity is really good or do you think like low level? What is your what is your personal preference?

So any kind of exercise is good for your mitochondria, but there have been studies done on high intral intensity training that show and aerobic sort of exercise that show that that helps mitochondria augment even better. Yeah. Oh, man.

Well, Doc, this has been so enlightening because now with the emphasis now on aging, do you feel that the general population, if they follow these guidelines, you're going to see even like not just longevity, but like a more healthy longevity? Because some people like they'll live a long time and they're not really that healthy at all. Yeah. So I'm more in that second camp where, you know, I want to see 70, 80 year olds be functional, right? Mm hmm.

with my story, you know, trained as a clinician, I was seeing all these old people not just have what I call this functional capacity to even get up from a chair and move around and play with their grandkids. So I think that to me is really this healthy longevity. When you're 80, if you can cross the, you know, the zebra crossing, the 15, 20 seconds, the traffic light gives you, I mean, most people, I mean, you know, it being a practitioner, most people, uh,

Old people, they have the time to come to hospitals because they had a fall, right? Yeah. They're trying to speed up. They're trying to rush through stairs or cross and they get hit by it. So I think if you have this residual capacity, if you can play with your grandkids and do your grocery shopping, I think that to me is the Holy Grail.

I'm with you, Doc. I always try to tell my patients the one thing I really want, I mean, all of these is mobility and my cognitive thinking and just having a more vibrant life. We are going to put your research in our show notes to make sure people see the emphasis of what your studies have shown. So I know this is a little bit going down a different path in personal life, but I say this, you're smart, you're brilliant, you're telling us all the things about how to increase your health.

i have to ask my guests like what do you like to do for a hobby what is like something like you like to do to give you some joy in your life and such to bring a little heat they say to the heart fire in chinese medicine yeah well i'm lucky to be based in switzerland which is a country of mountains so i i just love hiking and trekking you know for me that's kind of building resilience

both from a muscle perspective and cognitive when you're hiking down mountains you always have to watch out what's the path I want to take to the top so it's really for me that's what I

I love doing, but I think I would leave your audience with saying that, you know, there is no magic bullet. There is no magic supplement out there that can do the job. I think it's really doing all the basic things right. So physical activity, be more active, be more,

maybe practice intermittent fasting, really think of things like urolatin A as the third foundational pillar of improving your cellular health on which you can build on the other layers, whatever you're doing. Doc, these have been great words and I'm with you. I take mine every single day and I'm so impressed, but I'm also encouraging all my patients to take it. And I encourage everybody out there listening to take it. So, Dr. Walsh,

We know that Timeline is the company and the product, but where can people find you? When people want to hear your information, where can they come to see you and follow you? Yeah, so they can obviously look at all the research publications. They can go to a website called mitopure.com, which is really all the research studies and the science behind the discovery of mitopurine.

urolitin A, which is the proprietary version is what is called MitoPure. And they can participate in some clinical studies if they want. As I mentioned, I've designed a test that can tell you if your body is naturally making urolitin A or not. And this is right now as part of a clinical test so they can sign up. They receive a beautiful diagnostic kit and they can test it out.

That's fantastic, doctor. We are going to put the notes within the caption, everyone, that can get you in connection with this test and that you can see all the clinical research.

Again, doctor, we are so grateful and thankful that you took the time today out in beautiful Switzerland. I have never been there. I wish I could go one day, but one of these days I'll head out to the mountains. So everyone, I want you guys to check out Mito Pure. Look at timeline. I guarantee you it is one of the strongest products I've tested and used in my practice and on myself.

So thank you again, doctor. And from all of us here at the Ancient Health Podcast, we're grateful that you guys joined us. Remember, like and subscribe. And if you have anybody you know that has mitochondrial issues, aging issues, any type of injury to the mitochondria from this conversation, please forward them this podcast. Until next time, thank you, everyone.

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Thank you for joining us today on the Ancient Health Podcast. We hope you've gained valuable insights into the harmony between Eastern and Western medicine. If you've enjoyed today's episode, be sure to subscribe, share, and leave us a review.

Remember, true health is about balance, mind, body, and spirit. So stay tuned for more episodes where we continue to explore how ancient wisdom and modern science can work together to help you thrive. Here's to your health, balance, and well-being. I'm Dr. Chris Motley, and I look forward to our next episode together.