First Look with the Post's Jonathan Capehart, Hannah Knowles, Jim Geraghty and Ruth Marcus
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You're listening to a podcast from Washington Post Live, bringing the newsroom to you live. Good morning. Welcome to First Look, Washington Post Live's one-stop shop for news and analysis. I'm Jonathan Capehart, associate editor at The Washington Post. President-elect Donald Trump's second transition has been moving faster than his first.

And with the folks he's selected for his cabinet, it's a lot bumpier than his first two. Joining me now is our reporter who's been covering it all, Hannah Knowles, Washington Post national politics reporter. Hannah, welcome back to First Look. Hey, thanks for having me.

I was about to ask, what's the latest on the nomination of Pete Hegseth as Secretary of Defense? But we do have a little bit of breaking news. About an hour ago at 7:59 AM, Donald Trump on his social media platform wrote that Pete Hegseth is, quote, "doing very well." And then at the end, he wrote, "Pete is a winner," all caps, "and there is nothing that can be done to change that."

What's the latest on the nomination of Pete Hegseth when it comes to Capitol Hill and the Senate? Well, I think what we'd heard a few days ago was that the Trump team was really going to see how Hegseth did as he was sort of unleashed to go out and defend himself in the press and on Fox. And I think we have seen some encouraging signs for Hegseth. Obviously, the post that you just

pointed out. And, you know, some people think that he's been, you know, defiant, he's been criticizing the media, he's been putting up that fight that Trump likes to see in his nominees. But at the same time, I think there's still a lot of skepticism that at the end of the day, he makes it over the line. And so I think those potential backup plans are still very much, you know, in play.

I'm glad you mentioned that because I was just about to ask, you know, there have been reports in our paper and other media outlets that Donald Trump or at least his team have a whole bunch of names that include Governor Ron DeSantis of Florida, but also Iowa Senator Joni Ernst. How real is that?

I think it's real. I mean, for DeSantis in particular, I know that the conversations there were serious. Like this was a serious option, which was surprising to a lot of people, right? This is a guy that, you know, Trump seemingly hated for a really long time, right? They clashed so bitterly in that presidential primary. And so, you know, I think the idea of Trump taking him back into the fold caught a lot of people off guard. But it's clearly that idea was

you know, taken seriously on both sides. So I just mentioned Senator Ernst that Hegseth on Wednesday met with her. She is a veteran and she's a survivor of sexual assault. How did that meeting go? Excuse me. How did that meeting go? And how critical will her vote be to Hegseth's confirmation?

Ernst was definitely seen as a critical vote for Hegseth. She's a military veteran. She's a survivor of sexual assault. So, you know, she's really dialed into the issues surrounding his confirmation. And she put out a kind of noncommittal tweet afterward, right? It was, you know, positive, but it wasn't, I'm going to vote for you now. And she...

kind of confirmed that the next day when she was doing a TV hit and basically said, no, I'm not there yet. And that is not a good sign for Hegseth. So even as Trump is sort of digging in and telling his aides go out and defend Hegseth, I don't know. Will the senators get there? I'm not sure.

I'm not so sure. I'm not so sure either. So let's put aside Pete Hegseth and his problems with his nomination of Secretary of Defense. Which other cabinet choices are facing the hardest road to Senate confirmation, Hannah? I would say probably Tulsi Gabbard has the most

opposition, potentially from Republicans who just, you know, she's, she shares Trump's worldview in terms of foreign policy. She's very non interventionist, but I think most concerning to lawmakers from both sides of the aisle. She's

talked pretty sympathetically at points about Russia. She met with Bashar al-Assad in Syria, right? So these are things that are red flags for a lot of people. And we haven't really, you know, we've been focused on Hegseth and Matt Gaetz and these other people. So I don't think we really had, you know, full focus on Gabbard, but she could be tough. And then, you

You know, Trump's pick for labor secretary to a lot of Republicans fan because she's pretty pro union, but I feel like you could see a number of Democrats potentially vote for her. So maybe that I did that that complicates the picture.

Yeah, those Democratic votes could save her nomination. Who's been Trump's closest advisor in making decisions on cabinet choices and on how long Trump should stand by the nominees if they get into trouble?

That is a great question. I would say that as always, like Trump is known to kind of consult a lot of people about stuff, right, and talk to a lot of people in his orbit. And if you famously like maybe the last person he talks to is the one that changes his mind. I think, you know, we can see that there's been a range of people who've had influence here, like obviously Susie Wiles, his incoming chief of staff, who's been his closest advisor for several years.

Elon Musk has been at Mar-a-Lago all the time and clearly he's both publicly and privately had a lot of input on these nominations, even in areas that you wouldn't think Elon Musk is necessarily involved in. And then you see, talks to people on Capitol Hill. He has his campaign advisors. RFK Jr. had input on these health picks. So really a range of people.

Let's shift our attention to the legislative docket for the incoming Senate majority. The Post reported this week that the incoming Senate majority leader, John Thune, wants to focus on energy, border security and defense issues before diving into the tax fight over renewal of the Trump tax cuts. Is the incoming Republican Senate majority on the same page as Trump as far as legislative priorities?

I would say so. I mean, broadly, I mean, yes, maybe there is some debate about what to do first, but in terms of what they ultimately want to get accomplished, I feel like there's really little, you know, conflict. And, you know, Trump wants to do border security too, right? He's interested in all of those things. And so I think those are more sort of logistical details right now, rather than like the Senate defying Trump's will necessarily.

One thing that Senator Thune put out yesterday that, well, you tell me how much of a ripple it caused on Capitol Hill. The legislative calendar in the next Congress for the Senate, they're going to work five days a week? Oh, really? Okay. Interesting. I did not see that. Yeah, I don't know what to make of that.

Well, see, here's the thing for the folks who aren't in Washington or don't follow politics closely. The House and the Senate, they like wing in on Tuesday and they're out by Thursday afternoon, Friday morning at the latest, but usually Thursday afternoon. So they're like a three-day work week. The fact that Senator Thune said that the incoming Senate majority is going to work five days a week, I'm sure is going to cause

We both laugh because it doesn't work like that here. That's fascinating. Yeah, I guess they have a big agenda they want to get done. I really don't know what's going on with that. But yeah, I would imagine there's some opposition there.

Yeah, I think they have a lot of plans, and it's been a long time since there's been unified Republican control of the legislative agenda in Washington with them having the White House, the House, and the Senate. Let me get you on one more thing, Hannah, because you wrote a piece

an interesting piece about Trump's residence in Palm Beach as he's been assembling his cabinet and how it's really transformed the city. How are the locals dealing with all the activity at Mar-a-Lago? They are not super happy. I listened to a town council meeting recently last month

And it was just so clear that like traffic was a major problem for this town, which is a very small town. I mean, there's not that many full-time residents. It's kind of like a snowbird destination with all these resorts and stuff, but there's only one main road going down most of Palm Beach itself, which is this barrier island.

And when Trump is in town, which has been most of the time recently, that road is closed at a crucial portion in the middle near Mar-a-Lago. And so no one can get up and down the island and they have to go across these bridges. And so clearly they were at their wits end and people were just like begging this town council for help.

Yeah, I've been to Palm Beach one time, and it is, once you cross over that bridge, it is like going back in time. And I'm still on the fence as to whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. Hannah Knowles, national politics reporter for The Washington Post. Thanks for coming back to First Look. Have a good weekend. Thanks. You too.

Time for the Opinions Roundtable. So let's go to the opinion side of The Washington Post, where we will find Washington Post associate editor and columnist Ruth Marcus and Washington Post contributing columnist Jim Garrity. Ruth, Jim, welcome back to First Look. Hi there.

Good to be with you, Jonathan. So two breaking news things to talk about before we get into what we were going to talk about. First, the November jobs numbers just came out. 227,000 jobs created. Unemployment ticked up to 4.2 percent. A tick up, but still very low. This is good news for the American economy, isn't it, Ruth?

I'm sure it's good news. It comes a little too late for Democrats. And I'm sure President Trump will, future President Trump and former President Trump will explain that he had something to do with it. Jim? Yeah, I love results like this because you're going to hear some Republican later today insist, well, the job creation, that's excitement about Trump coming into office. So we get credit for that. But the rise in the unemployment record, that's on the old guy. That's on Biden. That's totally not our fault at all.

Look, there was polling numbers that indicated people's assessment of the economy right after the election. Republicans skyrocketed, right? You know, 65 percent, like, oh, the economy is doing great just overnight. And of course, lots of Democrats, oh, I'm feeling a great deal of economic anxiety. Things have gotten a lot harder. A lot of these perceptions are shaped by who's in office at a given moment. I love it when Jim out-cynicisms me or out-cynicizes me.

whatever the right verb is that I've just made up on. And it's a both sides thing, partisan views of the economy. Yeah. And also, folks, I'm sure this viewership knows that if the unemployment rate takes up as job creation numbers goes up, that means people are coming back into the workforce. It's a good, it is a good sign.

Okay, the second breaking news thing relates to what we were going to talk about, and that was the nomination of Pete Hegseth to be Secretary of Defense. There were a lot of reports this week

midweek about how Donald Trump was putting together a list of Plan B type folks from Governor Ron DeSantis of Florida to maybe even Iowa Senator Joni Ernst. Folks are saying, oh, Pete Hexeth, he'll be out by the weekend. And yet at 7.59 a.m. on his social media platform, Donald Trump

wrote that Pete Hegseth is quote, doing very well. And the very last line he wrote is, Pete is a winner, all caps, and there is nothing that can be done to change that. Three exclamation points. Jim, does it sound like Donald Trump is standing by his man?

No, Jonathan, and it's that third exclamation point that really emphasizes it. If you only had two, you'd be nervous. But no, semi-seriously, also worth noting, Joni Ernst did a interview with Real Clear Politics in which she said she is not interested in being the next secretary of defense. Look, I think earlier in the week, there was real shakiness. There was that report that no Republican senator has come out and said, oh, I'm not voting for Pete Hegseth.

You just heard these comments that were pretty noncommittal, were pretty, well, we have some serious questions that need to be answered, etc., etc. That very much was the tone Ernst had taken both in a Fox News appearance and in this RealClearPolitics interview. But she emphasized that she was not opposed to him and that she wants to have a hearing and she wants him to have the opportunity to clear up the allegations against him. I suspect Hegseth goes to the hearing. And if the hearing goes well, he'll probably have at least 50 Republican votes to

for being the next Secretary of Defense. If it goes badly, if he seems evasive, if he loses his cool, then all of a sudden it's a different story. And then these alternative options, including, by the way, Tennessee Senator Bill Hagerty was another one that was mentioned, as well as DeSantis. Then they might get better consideration.

Ruth, do you think the Senate Republicans will show some backbone and defy Donald Trump on this nomination? You know, I can't believe I'm going to say this. Leave aside the very serious allegations against Pete Hegseth from, you know, sexual nature, but also drinking wise. He's not he's not qualified to be secretary of defense. Augie agrees with me. Augie, Augie warning. Sorry.

That's okay. I thought I'd quiet him down.

So I want to first go back to the question of whether Pete Hagseth should take any solace in Donald Trump's post. When he says he's doing very well, those are the precise words, if I'm not mistaken, that he used about Matt Gaetz as Matt Gaetz was leaving. He said Matt Gaetz has been doing very well, but he's decided to step aside. So that...

Post means absolutely nothing. It just means he is continuing to let Pete Hegseth make a case for himself without a lot of muscle or probably any muscle at all from Donald Trump. I think the question of Senate Republican backbone, which is not a word that I have used normally with Senate Republicans during the Trump eras, is really...

I'm a little bit optimistic here. I'm optimistic in the response to Gates. I'm optimistic in the concerns that have been expressed privately and somewhat publicly about Hegseth. I would add to what Jim said and say, even with

before the hearing, there's something that senators have insisted on and must insist on, and that could torpedo Pete Hegseth, which is an FBI report. When you have an FBI that's able to go out and do a real background check and get, and you don't have Pete Hegseth and his allies complaining

about anonymous press reports, but an actual FBI investigation, that could turn out to be devastating if the reports, which I trust, turn out to be validated by the FBI investigation.

Well, Ruth, these are reports that you trust, but we just came through a campaign where trust in the FBI is, among Republicans and folks on the right, is at an absolute low. So, Jim, do you think there's a guarantee that

you know, an FBI report on Pete Hexeth, which should be ironclad and gold, that there'll be senators who will just say, well, I don't believe it. Yeah. One of the things worth noting is that without an FBI background check,

Hegseth or anyone else wouldn't be able to have access to classified information. Now, once Trump becomes president January 20th, he can issue waivers and say that doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned, Pete Hegseth is just fine. But I just wanna reassure Ruth's canine friend that we're talking about Pete Hegseth, not Kristi Noem. That I imagine would be the nominee, really get a huge reaction there. Well, thank you.

I'm sorry, my colleague over at National Review, Andy McCarthy said, an FBI background check, this goes into not just like, do you have a criminal record or things like that,

credit rating, talks to your past coworkers. Hey, has anyone from Fox News said anything? People from Fox News on the record have said, Pete Hague's at the swell. We've never smelled alcohol in his breath. We've never seen an issue. He's terrific. But there were those who spoke off the record to NBC News, who did, or without being named, who said, hey, we saw things that really were troubling. I'll just point out, when you say to senators in these one-on-one meetings,

I assure you that if I am Secretary of Defense, I will not drink a drop of alcohol for the entirety of time that I'm Secretary. I think that promise has the opposite effect of intended. That feels like a concession that I can't drink when I'm Secretary of Defense. Otherwise, there are going to be problems.

Let's shift gears and go ahead, Ruth. Oh, thank you. There's one more point about the Hegseth self-defense, which I think is relevant here. It has shifted, I think, from all of this is scurrilous, not to be trusted media exaggeration and invention to

Well, that was then. This is now. I am a redemption story. Many of us have faltered in the past and are fine now. And I completely agree with Jim's point. Promising I'm not going to touch a drop while I'm defense secretary should not give solace to

to the people who, the senators who are being asked to confirm him to this really 24/7, very serious job. And if they take their jobs seriously, that should give them pause. But by the way, everything about him should give them pause, because he is not experientially qualified to lead this enormous organization.

Right. And that's the other elephant in the room. He does not have the experience to run an agency that has a trillion-dollar budget and thousands of employees and hundreds of thousands of troops all over the world. But let's talk about Tulsi Gabbard, because Ruth had a conversation earlier this week for our Prompt 204 newsletter. You expressed concerns

about former Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard as the next director of national intelligence. Explain to everyone why. Sure, but let me just say, I got a long list of concerns here and I would probably, I can't even remember whether that conversation was before or after Kash Patel, but I'm going to, if it was before Kash Patel, I want to put him higher on that list even than Tulsi Gabbard. But she is all,

also unqualified, but beyond unqualified, and you touched on this in your earlier conversation with Hannah, she has done and said things that are dangerous and nimical to the best interests of the United States, both her cozying up to Putin and her cozying up to Bashar al-Assad. This doesn't just call into question.

question her judgment and her capacity to give advice to Donald Trump, but it really is dangerous because it calls into question the willingness of U.S. allies to share their most sensitive intelligence with the United States, given the risk that somebody like Tulsi Gabbard is going to be privy to that intelligence.

Jim, even though he won't become president for six and a half weeks, I think it's like 45 or so days, Trump has weighed in on all sorts of global issues from border security and trade with Mexico and Canada to the hostages in the Middle East. He's even heading to

to Paris tonight to be in place for the reopening of Notre Dame Cathedral tomorrow at the invitation of French President Emmanuel Macron. Is it reckless of Trump to do these things when he isn't even president yet? And what happened to the adage, we have one president at a time?

Well, Biden's in Angola. He's pretty busy right now. So, look, I know that Biden's got the energy to do lots of overseas trips. He loves to -- he never has jet lag, never has an issue with that. Was it Napoleon who said Paris is worth a mass? I think that probably, if you get invited to the reopening of the Notre Dame Cathedral, you take that.

We're in an interregnum period between kings, between presidencies. One is winding down, one is winding up. So I don't think it's that outrageous. I don't think it's that surprising that Trump is already declaring, look,

We're making statements to Hamas, warning them that they ought to release the hostages or else you'll unleash hell or hell will rain down on them or something. I don't think this is that unusual. And it's not anything less we would expect from Trump. I do think we have an unusual situation with the current president, who's now 82.

doesn't do a lot of interviews, doesn't make a lot of public appearances, certainly wasn't in the mood to answer any questions about pardoning his son. And now this proposal of blanket pardons, that any crime you may have committed at any point, I'm gonna write for it to cover the entire period. Don't worry. They're only talking about it. This is not a formal proposal. This is reporting that this is under consideration. Don't derail us, Jim. Back to the one president at a time.

One president at a time. I'm gonna go to Ruth. Do we have a president at this time? Yeah, half a president at a time. Come on, Jim. You don't need to go there in order to- Don't kick a man when he's down. Hasn't Biden suffered enough? I got it. I think that I'm gonna, having swatted Jim there, I'm gonna say he's mostly right. It is a

but not entirely right. There is a constant, inevitable, quadrennial tension when there is an incoming administration between the incoming and outgoing administration, and there's always a little bit of elbows and bruised feelings going on. But as usual, it's Trump, and he takes these things to a

abnormal, extreme. He has these conversations with foreign leaders without going through the normal protocol of bringing in the State Department so officials know what is being said, so there is a record, so there is one president at a time. It's both disrespectful and worse than disrespectful. It's a little reckless because it does create the possibility. And he's stirring

stirring up a lot of issues, especially on the issue of tariffs with Canada and Mexico that allow him to occupy the stage at a time when we still do have a president who is still, Jim's comments notwithstanding, functioning. So it's not the worst thing that Trump is doing right now. I would call that his incredibly bungled transition, but it's unattractive.

Well, I'm also thinking about this in terms of how world leaders are interacting with him. And I wonder if what comes to mind is Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau flying down to Mar-a-Lago to have dinner meetings and dinner with now President-elect Donald Trump. And it made me wonder how much of an impact in all this is the fact that the incoming President of the United States

has already been president of the United States, and world leaders having dealt with him before Trudeau, Macron, know what they need to do to ensure or try to ensure that they have a good relationship when he becomes president again. Or am I reading too much into all this, Jim? No, I think you're actually correct. Trudeau knows that he's on the opposite side of the ideological spectrum from Trump.

And if you said, well, I'm not meeting with Trump until he's January 20th. He's not president yet. By the way, to both you guys, I'm sorry to pick on the geriatric. I'll let Biden enjoy his retirement. Stop, Jim. Come on. No, no, you're right. He's full of energy. I'm totally way off base on this one. But so the idea is like Trudeau, all these other guys, of course you go up. Trump is very, uh,

very susceptible to flattery, very susceptible to attempts to ingratiate him. You mentioned about how, look, at one point he was, you know, frothing at the mouth and so angry at DeSantis and DeSantis had betrayed him, right? Now all of a sudden, hey, maybe I'll put him in charge of the Pentagon. You know, Trump is, his anger is like a summer thunderstorm. It's very, very intense. And then it passes very quickly and then it's calm and sunny day and everything's hunky-dory. So if you're Trudeau or Macron, you want to get in there and hang out with them and say, hey, let's hit the golf links, you know?

Jim, I just want you to know that it is three against one. Augie is very upset about what you've been saying about President Biden. Don't make me call DHS.

Ruth, I'm going to go back to something that Jim alluded to in the beginning of this conversation, and that is what Trump has been saying about the hostages in Gaza. He said there will be, quote, all hell to pay if the hostages held in Gaza are not released before his inauguration.

in January. Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas said this should motivate Hamas to release those hostages like Iran did in 1981, right as President Reagan was being sworn in to office. Is that an accurate parallel? You know, I have

very conflicted feelings about this, but my main feelings are whatever it takes to get the hostages released. And if somehow Trump's threats that all hell will rain down on Hamas manage to get the hostages released as he is being sworn into office,

then I am all for it, having interviewed the parents of hostages, having been to Israel and seen the sites of the Hamas attacks. We need to bring them home, and we need to bring them home as soon as possible. That said,

Hamas is not the Iranian government at the time of the hostages and when Ronald Reagan was coming into office in 1980. And it is not operating in order to get into the—it is not Justin Trudeau operating.

or Claudia Scheinbaum. It is a terrorist organization that does not care particularly about its relations with the United States or with the mercurial new president. And so I would be very surprised if we see this sudden transfer. I pray for it, but I'd be very surprised if we see this sudden transfer by a newly cowed Hamas.

Jim, in reporting on what Donald Trump said, there was a blind quote from an administration official who said basically, hey, they quoted what Trump said, basically trying to use that

in the Biden administration's efforts to help get the hostages released. Are folks in the administration being a little too optimistic or are they right? The fact that Trump is using very bellicose language

Does that give the Biden administration some leverage on Hamas to, folks, let's get a deal done before this guy comes in? I was gonna say, Trump is doing the Biden administration a favor. This isn't good cop. This is good cop, bad cop. This is good cop, raging maniac cop, where you have no idea what this guy is going to do to you next. And if you don't, what we're offering is the best deal you're gonna get, and the clock is ticking. At January 20th, this deal disappears.

I have no problem with a president-elect making extremely bellicose rhetoric towards people who have hostages. You see the poster on my wall. I absolutely have no problem saying to any terrorist group or terrorist-aligned government, if you don't release our hostages, all hell's going to rain down on you. And

maybe in six years we'll sell you arms. That's the Reagan approach to Iran. No, but the Hamas really ought to, for obvious reasons, should be releasing the hostages. My only kind of these, the qualm or kind of back your mind question is, if Trump gets into office, the hostages are not released,

How much of Hamas is left? Israel's done a pretty thorough job of dismantling them and demolishing every known hideout, etc. The question is, what's, they're going through new leaders of Hamas as quickly as spinal tap goes through drummers. There's a question of like, you've made this threat to bring down hell upon their heads.

How many targets are you going to be able to find? And what are you going to be able to do to Hamas? I suppose some of it might be Hamas is apparently setting up its new out of Gaza operations and fundraising center in Turkey. And I suppose Trump could very much do lean on Turkey a great deal to say, it's time to stop helping these guys. You can pick between Hamas or me. Who do you want to have as an ally?

All right. We've got about two minutes left and a giant topic to take up. So be mindful of the time. Another big story this week was President Biden issuing a pardon for his son Hunter. Now,

I'm going to put my opinion out there. I thought it was absolutely the right thing to do, given the threats of revenge and retribution made by the incoming president, which he has directed at the Biden family in general and Hunter in particular. But Jim, I'll start with you. Your thoughts quickly.

Jonathan, you're totally wrong. Once Joe Biden leaves office, nobody in MAGA world cares about Hunter Biden. He's played his role of embarrassing the hell out of it, of demonstrating after all that talk from Joe Biden that nobody is above the law. And 10 times, either Biden said, I will not pardon my son, issued statements saying I will not pardon my son. Karine Jean-Pierre said he will not pardon his son. But

Biden turns, oh, I just suddenly realized there's a threat to this. Oh, my goodness. And not just does he commute his sentence for the crimes he's committed. He offers a blanket for 10 years, anything he may have done. If we find out that Hunter Biden robbed a liquor store, he's got a complete pardon for that too. It was absolute nonsense.

Ruth, you wrote a smoking column that takes the opposite position from mine. And I quote, we're going to put it on the screen. What I cannot support, what is unpardonable, is being lied to and then gaslighted about Biden, the truth teller. I give you my word as a Biden, the president likes to say, what's that worth now?

Come on, Ruth. How badly does this damage Biden's credibility? Are you really arguing that he should ignore the very real threats leveled against his son? No, because there's another half of that column. Though, you know, the kicker was pretty good, so I'm glad you quoted it. I do not like being lied to. I do not like being misled. I do not like being told that at the top of his exorcism

that my role has always been to tell the truth and not explaining his about face. But that said, I find the part, I totally disagree with Jim. I don't think Hunter Biden will be off the radar screen. Donald Trump, I know that because Donald Trump

said there's going to be a special prosecutor to look at Biden and the Biden crime family. They are not going to let him go because he's been a great plaything. And so I think that there is no way that Hunter Biden would have been prosecuted to the extent that he was prosecuted in

if his last name were not Biden. And there was every reason for the president and others to think that he would be further prosecuted if the pardon were not more sweeping. So while I said this made me queasy, I do think it's justified under the circumstances, but I also don't appreciate being misled when it was politically convenient for him to say he had no interest in it and abjured a pardon.

and correct me if I'm wrong, the special counsel that had been appointed to look into Hunter Biden, he's still the special counsel. So there is...

Trump could come in, the special counsel is still there. Right, Ruth? But I don't think the special counsel is still the special counsel. He's doing some wrap-up things, but the pardon is the pardon, and it is hard to see a role for this or any other special counsel to go after Hunter Biden, given the scope of the pardon.

Oh, I should have been more clear. If this pardon had not happened, then he would have the vehicle already in place. He had already kind of shot his wad on Hunter. He had looked at a whole bunch of other... No! You know, you guys need to get your...

You guys need to get your views out of the gutter. I didn't think that was a nasty thing to say, but all right. I'm the one who's supposed to make Jonathan crack up during an interview. You're playing my role. If that was inappropriate, I totally apologize. He had already made his best case, shall we say, okay, on...

On Hunter Biden, he found nothing to prosecute relating to Burisma or China or all the other things. He limited himself to these alleged gun crimes and the tax crimes to which Hunter Biden pled guilty. And I think that there may also be a potential statute of limitations question involved as well.

And anyway, apologies to any of the tender sensibilities I might have affected there. Thank you, Ruth Martin. Can I come back? Ruth Martin is just charity. We got to go. The best thing Ruth said all day. Oh, yeah. We got to go. Thanks for coming back to Press Look. Have a good weekend. Thanks for listening. For more information on our upcoming programs, go to WashingtonPostLive.com.