Overthinking with @Mrwhosetheboss
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Hey, chat. Welcome to the Healthy Gamer GG podcast. I'm Dr. Alok Kanodja, but you can call me Dr. K. I'm a psychiatrist, gamer, and co-founder of Healthy Gamer. On this podcast, we explore mental health and life in the digital age, breaking down big ideas to help you better understand yourself and the world around you. So let's dive right in. So yeah, can you tell us a little bit? So you're Mr. Who's the boss, right? So can you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Yeah, so I make tech videos. I've been doing tech videos since, I'd say just after the initial wave of like early, early YouTubers, but still pretty early, like since 2011. Wow. And it was very much part of our era where no one wants to be a YouTuber. No one thinks you can be a YouTuber as a career, but it just happens because you like something. Okay, cool. So you've been making tech YouTube videos for 14 years, and I understand that your channel is gigantic.

Yeah, yeah. One of those weird things where you can't actually reality check the numbers. Like, I don't know what 20 million subscribers looks like, but it's a lot of people. Yeah, that's cool, man. And can you... So can you tell us, like, so you're a tech YouTuber. What does that mean? So...

I guess, originally speaking, you would define it as someone who keeps you up to date with tech news, right? So like a new phone comes out, I review it. But I feel like over the last few years, the genre has kind of evolved to become a little broader in the sense that

Tech is almost encompassing every part of our lives now. Like tech is in your kitchen, tech is in your bedroom, tech's in your living room. So like in the same way that tech has permeated our lives, tech as a genre on YouTube has almost permeated broader than just traditional reviews. So can you tell me like what, in what way has tech permeated YouTube beyond traditional reviews?

I guess like a lot of the videos we make are a little bit more lifestyle focused. Like here are 10 products that I find indispensable, for example. And that's not a traditional tech video, but most of those products are tech products because of what tech has become. Yeah. So it seems like you started out with like sort of a niche where you were like offering news and reviews. And it's almost like people are looking to you for guidance on how to improve their lives.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's wild, man. How do you feel about that? That's a loaded question. Is it? Well, it's a complicated responsibility in that, like, very, very privileged is like the first thought is like the fact that like,

I can have a conversation with like so many people and those people actually want to listen to what I have to say. It's incredible. But then also that responsibility comes with weight. Like we like double, triple, quadruple check everything I say, which is why live is so scary for me. Like this is, this might be like the second live video I've like ever done. Cause I love, I love like checking everything I do. Cause I want it to be right. I've got this like strategic mind that I,

focuses on like what the end product is going to look like while we're filming, which makes not being able to control that really scary. Wow. Yeah. So how are you feeling about this interview? It's new. It's new. Like a little on edge, I have to say. Okay. Mental health. Yeah. So I want you to just notice what you're saying. Okay. So you're saying it's new. So what a wonderfully sterile and safe response. Yeah.

Right. It's a little scary. And at the same time, you've just told us that you're someone who like tries to double and triple check everything. And so it sounds like you're really moving into a space where you could drop the ball a little bit more. Like here you are being so responsible. And now it's like, oh, my God, like what if I what if I say something wrong or whatever? So, like, first of all, I want to say thank you for being here.

Because to step so far outside of your comfort zone to kind of risk the responsibility that you carry, which I'd love to hear more about in a second. But I just wanted to acknowledge, like, I know it's weird being live, especially if you're like a YouTuber who, you know, you'll craft so carefully what you say because you take the responsibility really seriously, right? You don't want to push people in the wrong direction, things like that. So thank you very much for being here.

Yeah, you're welcome. I think for me as well, this is partly like skill development. Because like, I'm not comfortable live, but I want to be comfortable live. Because I think it's such a great skill to be able to like sit down on camera and just rattle off your thoughts in like an organized way. Whereas I'm so used to like writing scripts.

and like only potentially factoring in like a little section for me to like react organically to something. Whereas the vast majority of our videos are pre-planned, which means I spend probably a lot longer planning than most YouTubers. Okay. Yeah. Why is it an important skill to be able to rattle things off? I think there's a time and a place where let's say I just go hands-on with a brand new product. Like, you know, there's a brand new iPhone that's come out and

The way that tends to work is quite chaotic because you're at the launch event, you get all this new information, and then they'll open these doors behind you and you'll be in a product testing area. And no amount of preparation can prepare you for what that product testing area is going to be like, what you're actually going to see there. And so what I tend to have to do is go live in this product testing area, like really test the product, and then go home and write a word-for-word script so that I can record.

But if I was better at just being like, here's what I think, and I could just rattle off my thoughts, I'd be able to get a news piece out way faster that maybe felt a bit more natural, as opposed to like trying to ham in like a word-for-word scripted video in like two hours. Yeah. So how do you feel about not being able to do that? Like right now? Sure. I guess I like the idea of it. Okay. And so do you, because what I'm sort of noticing is like,

You know, it's kind of I'm not surprised at all. Right. So so you're many people who are very successful oftentimes are always looking to improve. And I'm sure that's been a part of your journey. And you're really good at making like scripted videos and things like that. That much is clear. And so it seems like you're always kind of pushing yourself to be able to do more, have a tighter turnaround, things like that. What's that like?

Yeah, I think you nailed it well in the sense that progress is always something I'm striving towards. And so that's always got to be progress in some sense. If you can't control how well a video does, for example, you can't set yourself the target of like, this one's going to do 10 million because the last one did 7 million. But what you can control is like, can I release this faster? Can I remove all the inefficiencies? And so I guess that's the progress we often benchmark ourselves to.

So it sounds like the progress that you focus on is things that are within your control. We try to, yeah, because I think that's better for your mental health. But it's not something I'm... It's something I want to get better at because sometimes I do find myself benchmarking myself against things that aren't in my control. And I think that's where it's easy to get frustrated. Yeah, so can you say more about that? Like, what do you want to get better at? So...

Let's say, for example, like wanting to be the first, right? Let's say like a new product comes out, like me telling myself, I want to have the first video out about this. That all of a sudden leaves me very open to being frustrated at myself, even if I've done everything I can, because I can't control other people. And so the definition of first relies on things that are out of your control. So it's maybe not a good goal to have for yourself.

How often do you have a goal like that for yourself? I think they're normal. I think they're very normal goals that a lot of people have. And I think, I guess like it's hard to put a number on it, but I think even just within day-to-day life, things like that pop into my head five to six times a day, you know, comparative judgments and just things that aren't like aren't in my control, I guess. Why is that bad for your mental health? Well, I think it's just,

I guess relying on factors that no matter what you do, you have no say over whether they go your way or not means that like, if they go badly, it's kind of what I said before, to be honest. Yeah. Yeah. So if they go badly, then what? And you're kind of like, you're setting your body's expectations up to like, I've done my bit. Why isn't this thing happening? It's like frustration at yourself and the world. Do you get frustrated with yourself or do you get frustrated with the world?

I'd say probably better both. Yeah, right? How do you feel about the questions so far? Like, I know I'm kind of putting you on the spot. How is this for you? I'm interested. Okay, good. So one thing I just want to point out, and by the way, what do you go by? What do you want me to call you today? Arun is good. Arun. Okay.

So, Aaron, you know, I'm asking you questions that are hard. Like you're having to think quite a bit. Sometimes you're sort of saying like, it's kind of what I said earlier. That's totally fine, by the way. So like, that's what we do. So we don't, we're not interested in getting a super well-crafted, perfect answer. We're getting, we're interested in getting a real answer. And what we tend to find is that when we talk to people and you muddle through things, we muddle through things, everyone who's listening is muddling through with us.

And what's really cool about that is that someone's ability. So if you if you give us a crafted answer, it kind of activates different parts of the brain. So it'll activate like more of our courtesies, more of our like logic centers of the brain. And we'll say like, yes, that's right. But people don't actually change behaviorally when we do that.

So you can tell someone, hey, it's like you should eat more vegetables. And they'll say, yes, I should eat more vegetables. I could ask you, Arun, how do you eat healthy? And you could say you should eat a lot of vegetables. And it kind of goes in one ear and out the other. The really cool thing about what we're doing here, what I'm excited about, is that as we muddle through the answers...

Like the parts of our brain, since there isn't a clear answer, it doesn't go in one ear and out the other. People have to struggle. And even the pauses that you make, that is going to be when their brain is active, right? So when I ask a question and we pause, everyone else is trying to answer that question for themselves. And so that's what we really find makes like a big impact on people. So thank you for doing what you're doing and you're doing great.

Okay. Can we keep going? Yeah, sure. Okay. So you said that, so I've got two different kind of tracks that I'm kind of curious about. One is we can continue talking about the standards that you set for yourself, what that's like, maybe the advantages of setting standards that are out of your control. Right. So like, cause there's a part of me that wonders if I never try to be first, is it, so if we take the people who are first, right.

Are they thinking to themselves, how often do people who end up first think about trying to be first? And I have to think that that number is high. You know what I mean? Like, I think that if you take the people who make the first video about something, I find it hard to believe that they're not trying to be first. So on the one hand, you're kind of right that like you can't control being first. But like, if you don't try to be first, are you ever going to be first? Yeah.

So there's that kind of angle. And then the other angle, if that's exciting to you, we can do that for two hours and I'm set, buddy. And I'm sure it'll lead to other places. The other thing that I'm really curious about is you said that there's a heavy responsibility that you bear, and I'm really curious about that. What feels better to you? Better both? Sure. What do you want to start with? Speed. Speed, being first.

Okay. So what do you think? Like, do you think the people who end up, have you made the first video on a product that has come out? You know? No. And I guess it's becoming less and less possible given that now like short form is such a big thing. They're like, there will be people who've decided I'm going to be first.

even if it's at the cost of like information density, which is completely fine. Like it's not a knock to them. But that means that if you're going for something that is information dense, you're going to have to be later because you need time to think about what you're saying, as opposed to like, here's the three latest colors. Here's 10 quick facts you need to know. Yeah. How do you feel about that? I think it's, I think it's good in the sense that like,

There's now so many places to find out information, which has changed. Like I think for tech specifically, YouTube used to be a hub. It used to be pretty much the only hub in a way that like if you wanted a person's opinion on a new tech product, you would go to YouTube and watch a long form video on it.

But now that information has kind of been digested down into smaller form factors. And in doing so, it's become reachable, like it's become further reaching. Like people that previously didn't watch tech content now can watch tech content because it's in a format that they want to watch it in. Yeah, like an Instagram reel, for example.

Yeah, that's so interesting. I'm impressed and skeptical because here's how I feel about it. So now we get to talk about me for a second. I find it incredibly frustrating because I'm with you that we tend to make information dense, high fidelity, very carefully crafted in terms of like the information that we're sharing. And what I've noticed is that as short form has exploded, the amount of rapidly produced trash on mental health

Has like exploded. So there was one study that came out, I think in late 2024, early 2025, that said that 95% of TikToks related to ADHD were factually incorrect. So when I see people rushing to make trash, it pisses me off. And just because I see that. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Yeah, go ahead.

Oh, I was going to say the, what I found is a problem with that is there's a little bit of a lack of responsibility in that if you're a micro creator, which is now a thing, right? You know, someone with a thousand followers, you don't need to worry about your reputation. You can almost gamble it all to have the next big hit, which means you get a lot of videos that are like not necessarily true. And they're more focused on trying to hit an algorithm because someone's got nothing to lose.

And so like, that's why you end up with these like TikTok tourist videos, which are like, you won't believe this one spot. And it shows you this beautiful like landscape. But then you actually book a holiday and you go there and you realize that shot is all that exists and everything around. It's just like a pebble beach or something. Yeah. So what's that like for you? I'm almost hearing that you're restricted.

The bigger you grow. In what sense? Well, so, I mean, like, and this is something I've heard from other creators. I know it certainly feels that way for me. That the bigger that you grow, the more you have to lose, the more careful you have to be, the less free you can be. I think that's true. Like, we're definitely, like, I'm less free with my content. Like, if you think about where it started, it was like, oh, that's cool. All right, cool video we're doing. We're live. Whereas now a video is like,

We've got like Trello boards and like Slack chats. And there's like days of preparation, like we're planning for a filming day tomorrow. And it is meaty preparation. So there's that. But then I suppose that also pays off in the sense that I have something because of that thought and that sort of intentionality that people who make those TikTok one-off videos don't have, which is the kind of brand trust. And so I wouldn't change it. I wouldn't want to be that.

So in a sense, I've signed up to be restricted because that is what brands are. That's what companies do. Cool. Yeah. I mean, it's lovely to hear you say, because I think we did the same thing where, so I think there were a lot of shortcuts that we could have taken that we kind of chose not to. And that's kind of who we are. That's so interesting. So how do you manage this like sense of wanting to be first versus exactly kind of what you just said, which is like, okay, this is who we are.

Right. Like we're we're careful. We're methodical. We're responsible. There's a lot of brand trust. I recognize that we chose to walk this path. And yet in your head, you want to be first sometimes. Tell you what my problem is. I think you can probably see it is I try to do everything right. I want to my brain works a little bit like a.

like a Google calendar, like slotting things constantly in order and rearranging them to try and like create a formula for a result that I want. And that I'll always try and create a situation where I get the optimal outcome with the least amount of like input, if that makes sense. So for example, I will like,

I will take on so much work that it's not feasible to do it in a five-day work week. But then I also want to keep my weekends free. So I will try and do all of that extra work I've taken in the five-day work week and then work too much. How do you feel about that? I do it to myself. So...

I guess not great in the moment, but always great afterwards. So it's like it's chasing this post-satisfaction, which is kind of similar to like when you've done a really good gym workout. You're in pain, but you're glad you've been through that pain. Yeah, so that's what I'm confused about because you said, here's my problem, right? And then you said, I sign up for too much. I try to do everything I optimize. I still maintain my weekends. And at the end of it, I'm in pain, but I feel really good about it. How's that a problem? Yeah.

And here you are sitting with 20 million subscribers. Like, where's the problem? I guess. So in moments, it's very tough, right? So there are moments like, you know, so like this week, for example, I think every day we've been working at 10 p.m. And sometimes you think in those moments, like, oh, I shouldn't have done this. I shouldn't have done this. And part of it is that bar that I hold myself to. Like, so we're working on a video which is testing upcoming...

Actually, I can't say too much. Okay, so it's testing products, like a bunch of products. And I think it's in trying to make sure that I properly give a fair rating to these products, because I've been burned a little bit in the past by not necessarily evaluating something in enough detail. We're like doing an extra pass. And that extra pass has now taken us even longer, if that makes sense, which has meant that the work has gone on till later. Yeah, so that sounds great. It can be. I think it's one of those that...

it's tough in the moment because it's easy to feel like, I guess, a victim of the situation. But then I zoom out and I'm like, wait, I'm not a victim. I chose to do this because of this, because of this. What do you say to yourself before you zoom out? Like, like, I feel like a victim or like, this is tough. Do you feel like you say to yourself, I feel like a victim or this is tough? No, I think more, I just tell myself like,

I let myself kind of grovel a little bit sometimes, you know, like, so yesterday, for example, I had some jabs, I'm going away, and it kind of knocked me out pretty bad. But the schedule did not allow for any kind of slack at all, I still have to do A, B, C, D, E, F. And so I was doing them thinking, like, I'm dead right now. But like, I'll do it, I'll do it, I'll do it. And like, this sucks, but it's fine. So allowing myself to feel like this is not great. But

still then afterwards zooming out and being like, but I signed up for this. How do you zoom out? My wife helps a lot, to be honest. She's very good at perspective. But then also like there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of very obvious benefits from what we do, like being able to like be flexible, like take my laptop, go work at a local pub or something like that. That's a job perk.

being able to even work on holiday. Like you could argue that's a problem, but like you could also argue, well, you can be on holiday while working. That's actually a great perk. So it's so interesting because what I'm noticing is like, so I asked you, how do you zoom out? And your answer is I'm lucky enough to work on a holiday, you know? So, so I, I, and I get you, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not disagreeing. I think that you're onto something really, really important that could help a lot of people.

So there are two ways to kind of think about it, right? One is when the thought, the reflexive thought, so here's why I think this is important. I think what you go through is stuff that just about every human being on the planet goes through. So this idea that, first of all, I'm in a prison of my own making. I'm in this situation because of the choices I made. I think that is incredibly true.

So as a psychiatrist, one of the most challenging things that I have to do is when someone has a history of abuse in childhood,

Helping them understand that the reason they continue to get into abusive relationships in adulthood is because of choices that they're making. It's so challenging because on the one hand, no one deserves to be in a toxic relationship. Right. And also the moment that you realize, Hey, I'm in this situation because I made certain choices. Right.

There was something about this person that attracted me. There was something about the way that this fulfilled my needs, which is why I'm staying with them. There's all it's so tricky. Yeah. And I also think it's it's not just about sometimes problems happen and problems suck and they're not always your fault. And I also think it's important to be like, this isn't my fault, but this is still my responsibility because it's like this problem has landed in my lap.

Because sometimes people are in situations that do just suck. Yeah. And it's of no, none of their own doing. Yeah. How do you, how do you deal with that? How do I like personally deal with that? It's a good question. It's only like a recent practice that I think I've started trying to deal with because I think for a long time I would let myself become a victim to my problems. You know, like let's say some health check comes out with something and you're like, oh, I didn't do that. Like, and like,

Like, I didn't, that's scary. Like, and that's not fair. Like, why was I born with that, for example? And so it's easy to feel victimized, and you're almost right to feel victimized because it's not your fault. But then, yeah, trying to take responsibility for it is kind of saying, like, this problem is not going to go anywhere. This problem is, ultimately, it's on my lap, and my life is defined by how I tackle it. Mm-hmm.

That's great. So what I was going to say earlier is like, I think that everyone can kind of relate to you in the sense that, so do we chronically find ourselves in situations of our own making? A hundred percent. So you sign up to do too much. I think that's really common, right? We also like in signing up to do too much also means signing up to fiercely protect yourself from burnout.

So like, I'm not going to bleed into my weekends. So I'm going to work till 10 p.m. So it's like, you're also like saying no burnout. Therefore, I'm going to work like 14 hours a day, which is like a burnout prevention strategy, which is kind of wild. Right? When we stop and think about it, but like, yeah, that's true. So I want to, so we sign up for too much. We create these situations for ourselves. Why do we keep on doing that? I think there's beautiful insight there because while the pain sucks now,

At the end of it, if you look back on your life, if you look at the last 14 years, on balance, do you think it is a good thing that you put yourself in those situations, what sounds like on a weekly basis, for 14 years? It's a really tricky one because I feel like

Thus far, the answer is zero regrets. I look at my career and I guess what we've done and I think, damn, that's cool. And somehow managed to, I aced my exams at school, got a really good group of friends who I love and got this amazing career and an amazing wife. And so all of these things and I'm like, I wouldn't change a thing. But it's sometimes I think projecting forward, now that I'm at this point,

Would I, in 30 years, look back at the way that I'm currently potentially getting stressed about like filming days and doing these extra passes of videos and things like that? Would I look at those things and think, that's stupid? I don't know. How do you deal with that uncertainty? Zero regrets up to today, but maybe colossal regrets 30 years from now. Well, you know, there's that thing of like people say on your deathbed, you'll always think you'll always wish you spent more time with your family, for example.

And that's something that like right now I feel like I'm not quite doing enough of. Like I love my family, but we've now moved away from like my family home. So the time spent with mom and dad and rest of the family has gone like down. It's like a nosedive. So I don't know if I'm fulfilling the criteria that people always say in hindsight you should be fulfilling. How do you feel about that? I guess.

Life sometimes feels like lots of different buckets, right? And you're running around with a jug of water and you're kind of trying to pop them all up at the same time. But they're all leaking, right? They're all always leaking. And you can...

Like sometimes me and Drisha, my wife, we do this calculation where like, so we've got different groups of cousins, different groups of friends, different groups of family. Even if we were to see one each weekend on rotation, we'd still not be seeing each of them enough. They would still be thinking, oh, we haven't seen this person in a long time. And so like, I don't know if it's a good idea to be chasing constantly filling these buckets because they are leaking and you can never fill them.

But it's this constant dilemma of like where, you know, you can also feel the lack of water in those buckets. You're doing a big smile thing. Yeah, I'm loving this. Keep going. Sorry. I think I'm done. I don't know. I mean, yeah. So, yeah, I have a...

I don't know if this is good or bad, but I tend to be very emotive. And at some point when I was training to be a psychiatrist, people were like, you know, you should be like Freudian. So Freud, what Freud used to do is he used to sit behind his patients and they'd be laying down like on a couch and like they couldn't see him at all. So there's this idea in psychiatry that like, you know, we should be completely neutral and then like the, it should all be about the patient. We shouldn't like react to anything. That's not who I am. And I don't like that.

So, yeah, I'm smiling because like I think this is great. So here's what I'm so excited about. The first is and I can't even get to everything because it's so good. OK, so the first thing is here you are setting a target for yourself that is unachievable. Right. I'm going to try to be first. It is out of my control and it messes with your mental health in some unclear way that we haven't really gotten into.

But like you set a goal for yourself, which you say is not the right thing to do. It's the wrong thing. And I shouldn't set this goal. I should set goals based on the actions that I take. Great. Completely agree. But we set these goals for ourselves. You do it five to six times a day. And if you didn't set that goal for yourself, if you didn't, like literally, like I'm not saying hypothetically, if you did not set that goal for yourself over the last 14 years, where would you be today?

And so you say, okay, zero regrets so far. So then it's like, it gets confusing, right? Because here you are saying, okay, like I'm setting goals for myself that are like maybe toxic or whatever. I can't achieve them. And at the same time, setting those kinds of goals, having those kinds of thoughts five to six times a day gets you to a life where you're, sounds like you've got a good relationship, sounds like you've got a good career. And so like, what the fuck, right? Like, how can we say that this is the wrong thing to do if you've been doing this for

for 14 years and you have zero regrets about your life. That's a dilemma number one. You wanna respond? - No, you're good. - Okay, all right. So, and then like, second thing is, okay, so I'm not gonna be burnt out. So I'm gonna work 15 hours a day for five days and then protect my weekends. I think there's another brilliant, brilliant, brilliant insight there, which is, I love it. Which is like, you're saying, okay, I get to work on holiday.

And people are like, oh my God, that's terrible. I can't believe this guy is working on holiday. How terrible is that? How much of a toxic work culture? So let me reframe it for y'all. So imagine you have two scenarios. You can work in your office or you can work on a beach. Which one would you rather do? You can work by commuting every day for two hours, one hour there, one hour back, or you can work on a flight to Indonesia.

I will say working on a beach is not nearly as practical as it seems. Yeah, I'm with you there. So I think once again, it's like it's so interesting because there are certain things that we have default knee jerk reactions to, like don't set unachievable targets for yourself.

But I think this is one of those things where it's like you've been grinding towards that and look at where it got you. Second thing is, sure, you work on holiday and that sounds terrible. I work on holiday too. I was thinking recently, I didn't have a vacation for five years. I really didn't. And I don't think that's bad. Like it was hard, but it wasn't bad, which we can get into at some point. So then there's this like idea of like, okay, so working a lot, preventing burnout, and at the same time, like grinding really hard. We're suffering in the moment.

Right. So you're like, why do I do this to myself? So we put ourselves in these situations. Why? And then the key thing is, how do you manage that? So it's not so much. There's two things. One is like the situations we put ourselves in. Is there something we can do to change that? But what I'm really hearing, that's like super. Are you play video games? Yeah. OK, so you know what OP means? Yeah. OK, so you know what's like really OP about what you do?

Is that you put yourself in these situations where you're beating yourself up and then you do some mental gymnastics to be okay with it. Like that's OP. You get that? It's not the situation. Like, cause here's the beautiful thing about how that's OP is if we had to compromise the situation, if I was like, Arun, beta,

You should work only six, eight hours a day. You're working too much. You're working too much, beta. And then you compromised on that. You wouldn't have 20 million subscribers today. Let's be honest. So there's some OP technique of grinding for 14 hours a day, going to bed at 10 p.m. or working at 10 p.m. for five days in a row and still feeling good about it. You do something really special there. So that's what I'm excited about.

The other thing that I love is this concept of life is a series of leaky buckets that you can never fill. And man, that felt like a punch to my gut. And I'm pretty sure every person who is listening to this is going to resonate with that. That no matter what you do,

Like you can be happy about your life and you're nosediving the amount of time that you spend with your parents. You can be doing everything right, the best that you know how to do, and you still could have regret. You could cycle through all of your cousins and all of your friends every weekend. You could run yourself ragged with a social schedule that checks the boxes and it'll never be enough. How do we deal with that? Yeah. Well, one thing I think about is like,

the human body, from what I understand, is like designed to have problems, right? And like the thing that is actually rewarding about life is not not having problems, but is actually dealing with those problems. It's kind of like...

I love playing games, right? And I love playing games because games have, they give you problems that are really fun to solve. How do I beat this dragon? Oh, I go and I get better gear and better weapon and I just sling the hell out of it. Like, that's a fun problem. And so I can spend hours upon hours creating more of those problems to myself. Oh my god, it's an even harder monster to kill. This will be fun.

And I think in the same way, you can actually tick every single box. Like there are moments where I've had like, oh, I've just spent loads of time with my family. I feel good about that. Work's going great. The latest video killed it. And suddenly like you'll feel something else. Oh, but I kind of wish I'd done this as well. Or you'll feel something else that's lacking.

And this is this feeling of like your body is actually not ever going to be in this tranquil heaven like state of I'm done now. You know what I mean? You'll always wish I wish I had a six pack right now. I'll start living then. And so I think it's like what I'm trying to do now is find problems that I like dealing with, if that makes sense. Yeah. So that's I can I think for a second? It's going to be like a long second.

So it may be weird, but I do this too, where sometimes I'm just processing. I'm booting up. RAM has overflowed. Okay. So here's what I'm hearing. You've accepted that life is going to suck no matter what. There's always going to be something that you're unhappy with, right? Like you just said, YouTube's going great. You just had a wonderful, I don't know, like celebrated your anniversary with your wife. Like everything's going great. And then you're like, man, I wish I had six pack abs or whatever.

So there's always going to be a dissatisfaction. There's always going to be a problem. The human body, and you've even come up with this idea that the human body is designed to have problems. I don't know if I'd agree with that, but we'll talk about that later. So there's always going to be a problem in life. So you've accepted that, right? Are you even shooting for not having problems anymore? I think there was a point where I was. I think there was a point I was, and...

I think a lot of it was centered around this idea of like when life begins together, like me and my partner living together. Cause it's like, there was this massive life stage shift very recently where we got married, we bought our dream home and we lived together. And I think it was this kind of like, um, end of the light at the end of the tunnel kind of feeling for a long time. It's like, that's when we can do this. That's when we can do this, this, this, and we just start. And then that happens. And it's like, it's incredible. And it has amazing highs and all that kind of stuff. But it's,

The body has a way of adapting very quickly. And the same things that bothered you in your old life will still absolutely bother you in your new life. And I guess in trying to aim for a situation in which nothing ever bothers you, you may actually end up getting more bothered because you get bothered by the things that bother you. Yeah. So like I said, it seems like you've given up on not being bothered. Yes.

So how did you make that shift? What happened? So you hit the light at the end of the tunnel. Arun is living the life of his dreams. Wonderful. Then what happened? You sound like seven people I know. Yeah. I guess...

in a sense like what we do as youtubers is never going to be stress-free like no relationship where the family friend partner is ever going to be completely stress-free so you have enough of these like you know something comes up and you're like oh this sucks you can't keep deluding yourself with this idea that like no but it can't suck you know this is this is life now i'm living a perfect life um i think it's more like you come to this realization that like

Kind of like with anxiety, you know, the general advice with anxiety is like if anxiety pops up, the thing to do is not to squash it back down. No, that doesn't exist. It's more like, oh, anxiety is there. Hi, anxiety. Recognize it's there and just be like, yeah, but that's OK, because anxiety can be a really useful tool. Right. Anxiety is designed to protect you from dangerous situations and make sure you don't destroy yourself by doing something stupid.

Okay. So like, okay. So I guess using that same thought process, like, oh, this is a problem. Problems are good because problems lead me to solutions and solutions are what make me happy. Solutions are what allow me to continue this kind of like progress that I like to see my life going through. Are you happy though? I think, yeah, I think I am. Were you happy before the light at the end of the tunnel? Uh, yeah, definitely.

Yeah, generally. Like, I think that there's always problems here. So this is what I think is great and also tricky is OK. So like you said, OK, fine. So problems are going to happen. So what I'm going to do is just pick the problems that optimize my life the most. Right. There's a certain like embracing of a problem like, OK, like now I want like so. And that's, I think, a really fantastic like I love that, like love that so much that just there's going to be problems.

The only real choice you have in life is picking which problems you want. So it's like life is like a multiple choice test with like five problems. So you can choose to be unhappy at home and broke. So my favorite example of this is like someone, you know, once asked me like, or it wasn't me, but a colleague of mine. So when I started med school, when I was pretty old by med school standards, I

And then there were some colleagues of mine who were even older than I was. I was like the third or fourth oldest person in the class of like 160. And the thing is, like people were like, well, you know, should I get this degree? Should I not get this degree? Four years from now, I could be like I could be graduating with this degree. And then like I, you know, I'm going to be this age and like I'm going to be that old. Well, like four years from now, you're going to be that old anyway.

There's no, you know, like four years from now, no matter what you can, you do. So now the question is, do you want to be 32 with a medical degree or 32 without a medical degree? And it's kind of like this, this interesting reframe that you kind of mentioned about, you know, I work on holiday. That sounds terrible. But on the other hand, working in places that are not an office sounds great.

So it's kind of like what I'm really hearing you say is like, okay, some problem is going to arise. There's no way to avoid problems. Let me select for the problems that are going to move my life in the direction that I want it to go.

So which problem it's not the avoidance of raw is a brilliant philosophy. It's not the avoidance of a problem It is picking the problems that when you solve them You will be that that will move you in the direction that you want your life to go Does that sound fair? I think it's spot-on. Yeah, I think so me growing up. I I was a chess player Okay, I was really into chess and so

I think that's, and because I did it from a very young age, it's instilled in my mind some kind of like deep strategy. And I find that like, that's how my brain naturally works. And that's how my brain is working at its best. So I don't think, right, I don't think that personality wise, I am best built to be a YouTuber. But I think I have a strategic mind that allows me to apply myself in a way that I knew would work.

And it's the same as like the way that I've improved over the years. It's all based on the way I've interpreted almost like the data. And so I think my life is that it's most satisfying when I feel like I'm the person who's moving the pieces. So you feel more satisfied when you feel in control? In control, but also like using that strategic part of my mind.

So, for example, if someone said to me, like, all you have to do from now on is present videos, right? Like you're a presenter. That wouldn't be great for me because it's not utilizing the thing that I think makes me tick, that kind of like problem I like solving. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. If someone said to me, you know, you had to manage a group of like 16 influencers to and grow all of their channels, that I'd love as a challenge. That'd be really fun.

Okay, cool. Yeah. So I think what I'm hearing is that utilizing, let me think about how to say this. I think there's something really powerful here too, because I think that, see, once again, I think a lot of people believe that happiness or contentment comes from some degree of avoidance. So they look at their life and they say, I don't like this thing. And if that thing wasn't there, then I would be okay.

Does that kind of make sense? Like, so everyone's like, oh my God, my mother-in-law is terrible. And so everyone's like, if the mother-in-law was not an issue, then I'd be fine. My boss is terrible. If the boss wasn't there, I'd be fine. And what I'm really hearing you say is that what you find the most satisfying about life is not the presence or absence of the problem, but the degree of autonomy and engagement. You're almost like,

The more you become yourself, the more content you are, the more you get to utilize yourself, like the more like because you're like becoming what you were born to be. Does that kind of I know it's kind of like, oh, you're becoming what you are. But I mean, like really practically, like there's a part of your brain that like ticks in a certain way. And when you tick to that rhythm or when you move to the rhythm of your internal ticks, that's what feels satisfying.

Yeah, it's kind of like that, you know, that Japanese philosophy there, ikigai. It's like you're doing something, you're like, wow, this generates value. It's what I'm meant to do. I'm really good at it. Like all those things. Kind of like, I think it's natural to feel satisfied if you're doing those things primarily.

Yeah. So I think it's interesting because I think we're getting a lot of like good answers for problems that people face if they listen to you. No pressure on you, by the way. But I really think because I think the way that it's so interesting how you look at life like quite differently. Now, here's one question I've got for you. So you're pretty happy, right? Yeah. So do you think it's possible? OK, so let me put it to you this way. So you were happy before you hit the light at the end of the tunnel.

Yeah. And then you hit the light at the end of the tunnel and you're happy still. Yeah. Right. Are you at peace? That is an interesting question. I would say, I would say no. Right. Because at least by the way that I defined peace, peace is this state of like problem free life is just happening and it's all good. Um, but I think if you define it that way, no, and no one will ever be in that place. So that's where I disagree.

So I think you figured out a couple of things that like, I think are really important to understand. See, the biggest mistake that people make about peace is that it correlates to where you are in the tunnel.

So when people are, so you were in, you were happy before you hit the light at the end of the tunnel. You were still in the middle of the tunnel. It's really dark. You hit the light at the end of the tunnel. You come out of the tunnel. Ah, beautiful mountains. And you're like, oh, this is great. But internally, you're like relatively the same, right? Even though you can acknowledge that externally your life is like way better and you're lucky and privileged and all that good stuff, right? Yeah.

But internally, you're kind of the same. But the interesting thing there is all that tells us is that these two variables are not correlated, right? So variable number one moves from zero to one of in the tunnel or outside of the tunnel. And happiness is independent of that. And peace is independent of that. There's happiness at zero in the tunnel. There's a lack of peace at zero, which is in the tunnel. And then there is happiness when you're outside of the tunnel. And there's a lack of peace that you're outside of the tunnel.

Right? Yeah. So the interesting thing there is that I think peace is possible, 100%. But I'm not surprised to hear you say what you say. And I think it's not, I mean, most people don't realize that or realize it assumes that it's correct. I'm not saying it's correct. I do think that you can be at peace. But I think that your story illustrates what peace and happiness is.

are really dependent on, which is not where you are in the tunnel. And the biggest problem that people fall into is that when they're in the tunnel, they think, if I do all of these things to get out of the tunnel, then I will be happy, then I will be at peace. And the real problem with that is that when you believe that, the amount of burnout you are willing to put yourself through to get to the end of the tunnel is really high.

So I think the reason you're not super burnt out is because you were relatively happy in the tunnel and out of the tunnel. It's running from the middle of the tunnel to the end of the tunnel that really burns people out. That does make a lot of sense. People like to set themselves kind of like goals that they can't immediately achieve, but they think are really close and they'll just keep running and running and running. And even if they eventually get there, they'll find something else to aim for. You're talking about people or talking about you?

Both, I guess. Is that what you do? No, but I think it's like you recognize this kind of the same thing I was saying about like, I wish I had a six pack right now. I think that's such a common thought that people have. Like there'll be one thing they're like insecure about, like a mole on their chin. And then their entire life becomes revolved around. Yeah, but imagine what this dinner out would be like if I didn't have a mole I was worried about.

And then as soon as they eventually, you know, kind of pluck up the cash to get that mole removed, they'll worry about the nose, you know, being a little bit crooked. And that'll be the next thing. Yeah. So how, I mean, so how, so it sounds like you don't have a six pack. It also sounds like maybe on some level, I know we're not going to go there. Maybe you want a six pack. So how do you deal? Let's say hypothetically, you wanted a six pack. How do you deal with that? Yeah, I think not even hypothetically. I think it's a...

So I've told myself for a long time, like at some point in my life, I'd love, love to reach like peak fitness, right? I'd love to be able to have a photo of me that I could like show my kids in the future and be like, look, this is your dad right here. Arun, you're beautiful. How can you be? This is peak fitness right here. Okay, go ahead. Sorry. That's exactly it. But I don't think, I think it's good to have goals, but I think there are certain goals that,

I guess if you take them the wrong way, they're going to reduce your net happiness because they stop you living in the moment. You're kind of living for this future version of yourself that may never even come to fruition. Because, well, I guess here's something I realized about myself. You know, I was saying that it's good to have problems that you like to deal with. I am quickly realizing that I'm not someone who enjoys the problems that come with trying to build a six pack. So I don't actually enjoy two hours a day in the gym.

Like what I what I enjoy is being healthy. But to actually achieve a six pack, you have to go a little bit further than that. And that extra is not something that's ever going to feel natural for me. Whereas, you know, spending spending that extra time focusing on like, how do I move the pieces of this business together? That I that does work for my brain. So how do you reconcile? So I'm imagining there's like a million people out there who are listening to this and saying,

There are a lot of things that don't feel natural to me. How do you balance like achieving that goal, giving up that goal versus doing things that are, because I mean, there's like a ton of people who,

You know, and I used to be one of them where the only thing that felt natural to me, like going to class didn't feel natural to me. Socializing didn't feel natural to me. The only thing that felt natural to me was like playing. Actually, now that I think about it, that didn't even just playing video games for 18 hours a day. Honestly, if I have it felt anything but natural. But there's a lot of people who, you know, and I'm sure there must be things in your life that you don't don't feel natural. They're not problems that you want to solve.

And yet you end up having to solve them anyway. You don't retreat from them all the time. And your point about the six pack is like well taken. But what I'm trying to figure out is like, how do you balance that? Right. So how do you balance when do you decide to do things that are unnatural because you want the goal and say, OK, you know what? I'm going to lean into like what feels right to me and give up on this goal of myself.

How do you personally navigate that? And I know it's a tough and abstract question. Yeah. Well, I'd say I tend to divide my problems into different buckets. And the first bucket would be things I can solve in the next five minutes. And I like to have that bucket because that allows me to like get stuff done. You know, something suddenly comes up and I'm like, oh, that's a problem. But it's a problem I can fix right now. I literally I stop what I'm doing and I fix it right now.

Whether that's like, you know, a WhatsApp message that's just come up, I'm going to answer it right away. Or it's like someone's just dropped something downstairs, you need to clean it up. Like, whatever it may be, if it's something that could stack, I'll do it straight away. Because I think when you have this kind of like amalgamation of small problems, they start to become this big problem that's even harder to tackle than a single big problem. Yeah. So I'd say that's one part of it.

The other part of it, which is, I guess you're saying is like longer term problems that don't necessarily fit in with who you are, like the six pack, for example. How do I deal with it? I guess, to some extent, I think acceptance is important. Like, if I...

I'm going to have a better time in my day-to-day life if I tell myself, I don't have a six-pack and I don't need a six-pack, I don't want a six-pack, then I don't have a six-pack and I really wish I had a six-pack, right? Because all the latter is doing is it's kind of reminding you of what you're missing. And so I guess it's just like mechanisms to come to terms with things that you're okay with not having achieved, like they don't affect your life.

So that's so interesting. So what I'm hearing you say is that you basically do an internal calculation of the happiness to achieve a goal, or sorry, the cost of achieving a goal, which sounds so simple, but I don't think people actually do this. So you think about if I pursue a six pack, is that journey going to make me less happy than achieving that goal versus...

When I achieve that goal is the price that I pay worth it basically or not worth it, which sounds so simple, but I really don't think I would just why it's I'm so confused about why it sounds so new because everyone weighs risks and benefits. But I've never I literally have never heard of a single person with a fitness goal that

ask themselves, is the pain of achieving this goal really going to make me happy? Like, is the price that I pay really going to make me happy once I get it? Yeah, this is part of the ever-looping equations happening up here. So I guess I'm constantly like evaluating choices. And I think that's good in some senses, but it's also bad in other senses because like sometimes I have this weird thing where a new opportunity, right, comes up.

And you look at that opportunity and you're like, this is a great opportunity, but now I'm stressed. Right. And it must be something that I'm sure some people have talked to you about, but it's like, it can be a great thing that's happening in your life. And counterintuitively, you're less happy because of it, because now you have to make a difficult choice. And so I guess the way my brain works, like it's constantly, it's, it's, you've got to make the best choice. You've got to make the best choice that can actually become quite burdensome. How so?

So let's say for example, something that's relevant like I've got a holiday booked, right? Holiday with some friends, I've been looking forward to it for a long time. Then a work opportunity comes up for like a video that's like a big exclusive. Suddenly I'm like, oh God, like I really want to go on this work trip, this friend's holiday. But like, I can't say no to this. This is like, this is crazy. This is great. And you're kind of umming and ahhing between these two options.

And you're stressed, like you're visibly stressed while trying to make this decision, because in a sense, I guess you've kind of become attached to both. And you now have this like loss that you've got to deal with of one of these two great things. That's so interesting. So what I'm hearing you say is that every opportunity, not every, but many great opportunities necessitate a loss. There's an opportunity and there's an opportunity cost. That's really interesting. And you're stressed about it.

Yeah, it can be. So let me ask you this. How do you get rid of the stress? Well, one thing I've tried adopting recently is if it's not a hell yeah, it's a no, which is, I guess, I guess it's just, it's an arbitrary framework, I guess, to make decision-making easier. But the thing it does, which is really good, is I guess it reduces your decision regret. You know, I want to feel like, okay, well, my first reaction wasn't like, hell yeah, therefore the answer's obvious. Like it wasn't a,

It almost like it wasn't a 100% you have to do this. And if it wasn't a 100% you have to do this, then you don't have to do this. Yeah, I wonder if I don't know if this is going to make sense. But I imagine you came to that realization. Because let me just think about how to say this, because that resonates a lot with me. See, when it's not a hell, yeah, we sometimes talk ourselves into it.

You know what I mean? Like you don't feel that it reflects of like, oh, this is great. Like I'm so excited about this. And then what happens is you're like, yeah, I don't know if I want to do it. And it's this, and this is a good opportunity. And who knows how long this will be there. And like, if I do this thing, then like maybe it'll open up the door for these other things. And then you kind of like talk yourself from a maybe into a yeah. Okay. But it was never a hell. Yeah. And usually when you talk yourself into it,

You don't feel as good about it. Yeah, I was debating about using the word regret, but I think I'm going to go ahead and say you usually regret it, and then you argue against that regret because you're like, on balance, this was good. But I think usually emotionally, like, you regret it. You're like, I really should not have done this. But here are all the advantages that are still there because I talked myself into it. Does that track for you?

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. So that's interesting. So I like this philosophy of like, first of all, there's going to be a problem. Which problem do you want? Right. So you're just going to pick one and which solving which problem will move you in the direction that you feel the best about. So I think that's also really good because I know, I mean, as a psychiatrist, like I've worked with so many people.

who are solving problems all the time and screwing up their life as a result. These are people like, so the, the, why are they screwing up their problem? Why are they screwing up their life? Because the problems that they're solving are not the ones that they want to solve. So the simplest example is I have a parent who has a chronic illness and they need my help.

So today they need me to take them to this appointment. Tomorrow they need me to do this. There's all of the, that we have, the exterminator has to come because we've got rats in the attic. Like I'm doing this, I'm doing this, I'm doing this. And they're constantly solving problems. My boss wants this done on time. Now I have to do this. Now my friend wants to be a, wants me to be a bridesmaid in a wedding. And like, I have to plan for this kind of stuff. Like I have to do this catering. They're constantly solving problems.

and not moving forward at all. They feel incredibly stuck. Yeah, I could see that. And so it's really interesting to think about choosing a problem that the solution moves you in the direction that you want to go. I also really like what you said about reducing stacking. It kind of got

kind of like moved over glazed over very quickly but you were like i do things that i try to take care of stuff that won't stack up which i think is huge so these little five minute tasks that then you basically turn make a a mountain out of a molehill unless you deal with it kind of right away yeah i think it it gives you this feeling of like i'm always at least current i'm not behind

Like I think like if I get out of bed in the morning and I don't do the bed, for example, some part of me feels like, right, that's one more thing to add to this list of things that need to be done because it needs to be done eventually. And I think your brain knows that with most of these little things that come up. And so I get this sort of mental ease from feeling like I'm caught up. I'm right to be doing my work or having fun or whatever it is that I'm doing right now if I've done these little things. Have you talked about this stuff before? No.

It's very lucid. Like, it's great, dude. Like, I think it's, you know, you were saying that I wish I was better at organic, spontaneous stuff. I think this is fantastic. Like, I'm learning a lot. A lot. Thank you. Yeah, so we've kind of been bouncing around for a while. I've been loving this. How is this for you? Great. Really interesting. Is there something in particular that you want to talk more about? Any threads that you want to pick up? Oh.

Nothing in particular. Okay. I'm going to just pause for a second. Do you have any questions for me? I'm sure they'll come in the moment, but... Okay. Yeah, so I've noticed that one of the fastest way to empty your mind of questions is to ask someone, hey, do you have any questions for me? They're like... Okay, so let me just think for a second. Oh, yeah. Let's talk about Leaky Bucket. Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay.

Unless you want to talk about something else, but like, like I think... Oh, leaky buckets are good. Yeah. So like, you know, here you are adding water to a bunch of buckets. They're leaking. There's just no way to do all... How do you deal with that? I think, well, it feels like the answer is obvious. Like if you were solving this like a maths problem, you either have less buckets, so you cut some of them off and you decide they don't matter, or you fill them faster, or you be okay with the buckets being empty.

I feel like those are the three options. Okay, let me think about this. So you reduce the number of buckets, you fill faster, or you're okay with empty buckets. Yeah. So I guess there is no right answer. Well, I don't know about that. Okay. Patch the holes? But I think the holes are... Okay, so here's one thing I suppose I started doing, which is... Oh, that's interesting.

Okay, keep going. Okay, so I just realized why patching the holes doesn't work. But okay, go ahead. So I guess the way this is defined is somewhat by other people's expectations. So in the example of like, I need to see my cousins, then I need to see my family, then I need to see my partner's family and all these sort of things. Part of what makes that chase stressful is this feeling of like, and it's because I've got to be a good friend, I've got to be a good son, I've got to be a good son-in-law, etc.,

Whereas what's really helped me is if you flip that on its head and you take control of why it is you're trying to do that, you kind of, it starts to feel more like a bonus than a something that you have to do. And that makes you want to do it more. So for example, if instead of feeling guilty that I haven't seen my parents enough, for example, you flip it such that like, I want to be

a son who makes their life easier. I want to be a son who like, let's say, gets them a great Christmas present every year. It can't be as simple as this, obviously. But I'm just saying if you boiled it down to things that you actually do have control over, which because you don't have control over how someone else feels about you.

If you let that be the metric by which you're measuring this bucket, then they make one comment that's like, oh, you never come home or something like that. And suddenly you could have tried as hard as you wanted, but poof, it's gone. You're no longer like a perfect son. So if you define it by metrics that are on your own terms, then you can both make sure you're on track and correct yourself if you're not. Okay, I love that. And I'm going to push back a little bit.

I don't think you're wrong. So let's say you and I are married and we have physical relations at a certain frequency. And then I come to you and I say, Arun, I am unsatisfied. And then you say, okay, I'm going to flip that around. I'm going to get you a good Christmas present every year. I'm going to get you a nice anniversary present. So I'm with you. I think you're really on to something. And at the same time, so here's...

You know, I think, though, that but there's a there's a practical matter of other people's expectations. Yeah. Yeah. And I use that example. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. So I think there's two parts of that. There's I need to be attentive of what you're coming to me with. Right. And I can use that to inform myself.

what I might try to be. But what I can't, what I shouldn't be doing is telling myself, I'm only happy if he's satisfied, right? Because that's out of my control. Like I could do whatever I want. You might not be satisfied. Yeah. The reason I'm not satisfied is because you can do whatever you want, but you're not doing whatever I want. So, so, so, but I, I think it's, it's, it's really good. It's a great, how, how'd you feel? Was that too much? Was that okay? Yeah.

Like the example. Okay. Okay. So, um, so I think it's really, it's, it's interesting because what I'm hearing that I think is really subtle and really important is that you receive their information, but you don't adopt their judgment. Yes. Spot on. It's like so subtle, right? There's a, there's a responsibility that you have. And also you cannot set the barometer at like my satisfaction, right?

And that I think is really great, too, because people who do that tend to burn themselves up and leave their partners unsatisfied. So not just partners, but like generally speaking, when you give in to the standard of someone else's satisfaction, just like you said earlier, we tend to acclimatize to what we have.

So this is something that my wife and I still kind of talk about because, you know, we, when we were younger and we moved into our first apartment together, it was like kind of a shithole, but like, that's what we could afford. And every time we kind of upgrade, which we've been lucky enough to do, we sort of think back and be like, man, I'm so glad that we didn't

You know, we weren't, we don't have to deal with that, but also we were really happy there and we had problems there and we have problems, like every place that you live is going to have problems. Right. So there's something about receiving what someone has to say. And then kind of really what I'm really noticing that you're doing is adopting your own standard of behavior as opposed to internalizing someone else's expectations. Yeah. I think like,

Especially with YouTube, you cannot, you can't even function if you allow your mood to be affected by someone else not liking you or not being happy with you. Yeah, I mean, I think that's what you say, especially with YouTube. I think that's true of life, right? So I think that's where the human involved is what's important. YouTube just makes it certainly way harder because...

The human brain is not designed to deal with an absolute amount of dislike that being a content creator or celebrity or famous person exposes you to. So for some reason, our brain just doesn't think probabilistically. Like we don't think like 1% of people are unhappy with me. What we see is 10,000 people are unhappy with me and the brain just sees 10,000 people. And it's like, that's 10,000 people. That's like way too much. So from a practical perspective, I'm curious, like,

When your parents, because I'm sure that your parents, you know, are like, oh, you should come home or whatever. But like, so how do you how do you deal with that? Like, practically? I guess I kind of like I update like my mental log. So let's say in that situation. So my parents are great, by the way. So like they've been very good in terms of like they don't put too much pressure on me. I've only been able to do this because of their help. But yeah, I suppose there's definitely a feeling of like, you know, I wish we could see you more.

And I think anytime that happens, I try not to beat myself up about it. I try not to feel like, oh, I'm just, I've ruined. Okay, let's dial back a second, actually, because there's something I think to be said about like your sense of self, right? Like throughout my entire life, I basically told myself, I'm like, I'm a perfect son. I'm trying to be the best possible son to my parents, amongst other things, like the perfect partner, the perfect friend, like all these things.

And I think the more niche and like the more special the way that you define yourself is, the more that you set yourself up to not be able to achieve that. And so I think the issue that I've had growing up is that I've set myself a definition that is far too ambitious.

And that's both from a personal context, but also a business context. Like, you know, I've had since the age of 14, I've had people telling me, like, you're doing this amazing, cool thing. And you're so successful. And, you know, no one else does it like this. And like, you know, I mean, like people telling you so great. And

You have to not tell yourself that because if you let yourself believe that, you start to set this expectation of yourself that any time you don't hit, you're disappointed. Does that make sense? It does. Do you have more to say? Yeah. Well, I guess just kind of linking back to the parents thing, it's like if I tell myself I'm a perfect son and that's my benchmark of success, then...

That's not a good barometer because I can't possibly be a perfect son if I'm already not doing the base thing of seeing them enough. So just by no longer living in my family home, in a sense, I'm already not the perfect son. Okay. So I'm with you. So I'm noticing that the way that you're defining the standard that you set for yourself, what's the smile?

Anything? Nothing in particular. So the way that you define the standard, the way you define the standard you hold yourself to can quickly become a source of disappointment. Yes. Right. So the gap between who you are and the way you define yourself is the size of the disappointment. Correct. Okay. So let me ask you this. So sure, that gap is disappointment, but how does that influence success?

So when did you stop defining yourself as trying to be the perfect son? Pretty recently, I'd say. Okay. Kind of realizing that it almost wasn't possible. Great. But when you set yourself to that standard, how good of a son did you become? I wouldn't say a better son, but I would say I became happier, like more content. Right. So you became more content. But what about the quality of your son output? Yeah.

So like how good of a son were you when you were – I think this kind of goes back to what we were saying earlier about, okay, sure, you can't be first. But what percentage of people who are first try to be first? So I'm with you that –

immediately, if someone is telling me that I'm not what I tell myself I am, that's going to evoke a response that makes me an even worse son, in a sense. Because then I'll be like, you know, like, yeah, but that's not fair, because I've had loads of work on and like, I'm busy. And this person asked me to do this. So I couldn't come around. Right? Whereas if I tell myself, okay, well, that's, you know, feedback received, I get that that currently, I'm not doing enough. Just let me just update the log, I'm actually going to be a better son.

How? Because I'm not going to respond in a way that's defensive because I don't feel like my illusion of self has been shattered. Okay. So what we're saying is that when you feel like your ego has been attacked, the response that you have is not going to make you a better son. So trying to live up to that standard won't actually improve the quality of your son-ness. Yeah.

Yeah. So that's really interesting. So what is, cause I, cause I think that there's, and I agree with you. Um, but I think there's an argument to be made that, you know, if we set, set a perfect standard for ourselves, striving for that standard helps us get close to that standard. So when I, when I think people like not quite reaching goals makes them happy, but there's a different, so you keep on talking about disappointment and happiness. I'm talking about performance.

Ah, okay. Right? So, and that's where you've addressed that, because I, like, you know, like, how good of a son are you when you strive to be perfect? So sure, the gap between your idealized self and what you are is, there's disappointment and happiness, totally agree, but that's like crap in here. It's not what you actually perform on the outside. But what I'm hearing you say is that

The internal reaction of disappointment evokes a psychological defense mechanism, some kind of defensiveness that actually negatively impacts your performance as a son. That's been your experience. Yeah. What about on the professional side? Difficult to say. I'd say it's kind of untested in the sense that like right now,

Up until this point, I have put large amounts of pressure on myself, right? You have to make a video that is early. It's information dense. It's fact checked. It's got beautiful B-roll shots, like all of these things that I told myself I have to do because that's the standard I'm going for. And if we don't get, if we don't hit that, I'm disappointed. So in a sense, I'm doing the opposite in my business life, right? I'm setting myself this extremely high bar that's very hard to reach, right?

But what I'm trying to do more and more is lower that kind of like lower the heat on myself a little bit to see if actually the end product does turn out better because of it. So let me give you an example of where that may be true. So on filming days up until this point, they're stressful days for me.

I get really bogged down in logistics, timing, making sure that every product that we're about to cover has been tested and it works the way we think it's going to work, for example. And if we start running behind schedule because a camera crashed or we had a power cut or something, I get stressed. And I actually, I'm not going to be as good on camera if I'm stressed.

Whereas if I went into that filming day telling myself, yeah, it's fine. Like whatever, I'm having fun. I'm like just hanging out with the camera guys. It's going to be a better video. Like I'm probably going to naturally have fewer takes. It's going to naturally potentially be faster because of that to make the video. It's going to be more entertaining. I'll make more jokes. There'll be camaraderie. I'll have a better time doing it too. So I'm with you, but if you're like hanging out with the camera guys, um,

What is the likelihood that a camera fails? Right? Because if you're stressed, so Arun is stressed. Oh my God, your team's there. And they're like, oh my God, we're behind schedule. Arun is like, everybody, let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's catch up. Right? So, so is there something to be lost? By not keeping as close eye on everything? Yeah. By hanging out with the camera guys, as you put it, by being a little bit more chill.

So I guess what I don't mean about what I don't mean is like we're not filming because I'm just chilling chatting because I don't think that's the outcome. But I think the outcome is being less attached to every single thing going to plan and counterintuitively being less attached to the outcome will make more things go to plan because the video is going to be better, which is actually all I care about.

So being less attached to plan may improve the quality of the end video, but what is the impact of being less attached to your plan on the plan happening in a timely fashion? It's hard to say.

Okay. But I also think you can do two things independently. Like you can do everything you can to make something work, but then you can also at the same time, let go of whether it actually happens. So what I'm not saying is we don't have the production calls and like go through every product, but I'm saying we do it through the lens of like, we're doing our best here. If something goes wrong, then, you know, that's fine. So what I'm hearing you say is that there is the actions that you take to address a problem.

are independent of your attitude and stress that the problem is there, right? So when a camera goes down, just because you're not stressed about it doesn't change whether you're stressed or not stressed. The path to solving a camera cutting out is the same. Yes, yeah, yeah. Would you say that being stressed about it alters your... Do you think that being stressed about it makes it

changes the kind of solutions that are available to you? Or do you think that basically on balance, not being stressed about it is just a net positive?

I think there are a few very niche cases where stress is a propellant, like it can help you. Like, for example, stress can often be the trigger to just powering through and getting something done. Like some of my most productive days, like writing, have happened because I'm like, oh, you've got one day to do this three day job. Just do it. Just do it. It's like you don't have enough time to try. And it happens.

And so, yes, I think sometimes being stressed is good. But I think for the vast, vast majority of situations, it's the other way around. Well, hold on a second. I would even push back against that example. Because if you have one day to do three days of writing, you could be stressed about it or not stressed about it. And you could still do the writing. You're like, okay, I've got one day to do this. I should have three. But this could mean I'm up for 18 hours today writing. So be it. You don't have to be stressed about it.

No, you don't have to be stressed about it. But I guess I think I thought what you're asking is like, can that stress be a useful tool? To which I would say it can be because sometimes it makes you or at least it makes me do more than I would otherwise do. So if someone said, yeah, just if it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Maybe I wouldn't have got something done that I would get done. Yeah. So you correctly understood my question. And I think you answered in quote unquote the right way. It's just I'm pushing back against you.

sometimes on purpose. Right. So I think that when I push back and I'm not like trying to prove you wrong, but I think when I challenge you is you do a great job of like the nuance and the tight rope that you walk. I'm noticing it come out when I come at it from this way. And then you're like, I say this, but if we're not careful, that's going to sound like, I think people will misinterpret that.

So, so what I mean by that, I know this is getting a little bit abstract, but like, you know, the way that we were talking about your parents and being the perfect son and stuff like that. So like, if, if I don't, if we just take your words at face value, I don't think we get the real value of like how you live your life. And what I think is really interesting is there's a lot of like, I don't, I don't know if this makes sense to you, but you're really in your head a lot in a good way. Yeah.

Does that, you know what I mean? Like you think about a lot of how you were responding to situations, what's going on within you. You're not like autopilot much. Yeah. I think that's accurate. Yeah. How do you understand that? How does it feel for me to say that? Let's start there.

I think it's something that, like, my partner, Drisha, she also picked up on me quite early. That, like, I think, and then I think about how I think, and then I think about how I thought that thought. So it's a very me thing. And I think it's good because I'm very self-aware. It's bad because I can overthink things. Yeah. So can I ask you kind of a... Any questions for me? No, shoot. How are we doing? We're, like, an hour and a half in. Can you...

- Time has flown. - Yeah, right? - Yeah, okay, 17% battery. - Check in, make sure. Okay, it turns out that you were kind of quiet and I should have turned you up on Discord about 90 minutes ago, but so be it. - Oh no. - No, no, it's fine. So we had a system in place where if they needed to get ahold of me, they could. So that system is intact and they chose not to exercise it, so that's fine.

Let me, so let me ask you this. How did you learn this stuff? Which stuff? Everything we've talked about. Oh, I get experience, I suppose, largely. Okay. So this is like the path of like internal discovery for you? Pretty much. So do you, it sounds like you maybe read productivity books or not so much?

Uh, like self-help kind of stuff. Not much. I'm not much of a reader. I've read a couple. Yeah. But not massively. Okay. So that's, it's interesting. And so you're, are you religious or spiritual? No, not massively. Okay. That's so interesting. Um, okay. So this has basically been a journey of self-discovery for you since you were like 14. Yeah.

Sounds like that's when it started. Yeah. Yeah. I also think, like, so me and my wife, we do a lot of, like, since we got married, we spend every waking minute, like, together. And it's incredible what you can learn about yourself by having someone who's very similar to, like, reflect your thoughts back in a way. Same one. So, yeah, a lot of the time we're, like, trying to get to the bottom of something.

I can't seem to do it myself. But as soon as I talk to someone about it, particularly her, I get to the answer really quickly because you just need someone to tell you, like, even if they're just asking why and why and why. And eventually you answer your own question. So I suppose that's part of why I have a good understanding of myself. Yeah. So so that's so interesting. So I'm hearing that when you have a mirror, it's easy to see what you look like. Yeah.

Which makes perfect sense if you like stop and think about it. Like, how do I see my face? Like, oh, I look in the mirror. And when you question yourself, when you examine yourself, when you look at yourself, when you experiment, it sounds like you run a lot of internal experiments. I've never really heard that term, like an internal experiment. Yeah. I mean, I think you, I don't know how old you are, but I think you've been doing it pretty diligently since you were like 14. Right. So I think you collect, what I'm hearing is someone who,

really collects a lot of internal data and runs a lot of internal experiments. So what, what surprises me the most, and are you familiar with the term glazing? No. So this is something that kids say nowadays. Glazing means like complimenting basically. So if I'm glazing on you, it's like, I'm, I don't know exactly what it means, but it's like, so I'm about to say things that are complimentary to you. So prepare yourself.

Um, that wasn't the glazing. That wasn't the glazing. No. So the glazing is coming. So, so I, I, I think it's, I even forgot what, what I was going to say about that. Uh, so I think it's really interesting cause you, Oh, you, what surprises me so much about what you say is how right it is. So I'm like incredibly confident that everything you've said, except for one thing is like objectively correct. Yeah.

Now, you may say, well, hold on a second. Isn't this just works for me? No. So what we know from things like neuroscience, psychiatry, psychology, arguably spirituality, is that there is an optimal way to do things. I believe that. And I think the evidence is on my side. So we know, for example, that focusing on that which is in your control,

as opposed to that which is outside of your control, is an objectively better way to improve your performance and improve your happiness. So what's really OP about a lot of this stuff is that most human beings go through life thinking that success and happiness are at odds. I can be happy or I can be successful. I can play a video game or I can study. I can't have enjoyment and performance.

I work and I go on vacation. If you look at the way that we organize our understanding of life, there is a fundamental duality between what I like and what is good for me. I think that that duality is actually very false. The reason that people believe that is because they are not trained properly. It's a lack of understanding in the mechanism of what a human is.

So once you understand really what makes a human being content and happy, what is the nature of happiness, that it does not, happiness does not correlate with whether you're in the tunnel or you're outside of the tunnel. So what I think happiness correlates with, and I think you prove that pretty well as do many people, but I think what it correlates with is actually your attitude in response to things. And what I think has been really fascinating about this conversation is hearing the way that you respond to situations.

So there's, and by the way, the reason that patching the holes doesn't work in the bucket analogy is because what, what you really control is the watering can, not the buckets. So it was really interesting how like, I was like, oh, why can't you do that? And that's because in your frame, the solution of doing something that something outside of you changing is actually not part of your solution space, which I think is very indicative of why you are where you are and why a lot of people are stuck. Yeah.

Because most people out there are thinking to themselves, oh shit, if I could just patch all the holes, then there would not be a loss. The other interesting thing about your solution space is that there was a loss no matter what you choose. It was always a choice of which evil, which problem do I want to embrace?

Whereas I think 95% of people in the world, when they look at a problem, they don't think about which problem do I want to embrace? They think about how can I fix this? How can I patch up the leaky buckets so that with this watering can, I can have three full buckets and I don't have to pay a price. What's really fascinating is that you assume there is a price to be paid. This is like some Kobayashi Maru level shit. Are you familiar with Kobayashi Maru?

Yeah, I get the reference. Okay, can you explain it to us?

Not well. Okay. So in Star Trek, there's this scenario that they put graduating like people through, which is like basically an unwinnable scenario where you like lose no matter what you do. There's just no way to win. And so like it's an L from the get go. And what I think is really interesting about the way that you approach problems, which is like kind of counterintuitive because you're, it sounds like you're happy and you're successful. And it's so interesting because the way you've become happy and successful is by accepting L's.

Like the whole way through, right? I'm not going to be first. I can't be first. If I have a choice between being fast and being good, I have a choice between sacrificing a bucket, leaving them all relatively empty, and I forget what the other ones were, but I think it was so interesting. It was having fewer buckets, so snipping some off. Yep. Being okay with some buckets being empty. Yep. Or... Yeah, I forget. Yeah.

Like choosing to water some buckets or something like that. But it's so interesting. So what really fascinates me about this is like how right you are. So I generally speaking agree with everything that you've said except for one point, which is that you can be at peace.

That's really the only thing that I think is like I would hard disagree with. But I think everything else is like it's really interesting how you cognitively reflank. The peace thing I was saying, if you define peace as a state of no problems, then you can't have peace. But I agree with the idea that you can be peaceful. It's a state of no problems. Yeah. Do you think it's possible to have a state of no problems? No. No.

But I guess then it depends how you define a problem. There we go. How do you define a problem? Is a problem how you take something or is a problem a thing that comes up? You tell me. So I guess, hmm. See how easy that was for you? We jumped right into it. We'll get you there. Not we'll get you there is arrogant. I apologize. You'll get there. I just don't know if you've thought about this yet. The default assumption in my mind, if someone says a problem, is things that are out of your control. Like, oh, your roof is leaking right now.

That's a problem. Whereas would you say you define it differently? Like a problem is only a problem in so much as it affects you. You tell me, can you, can you be at peace if there's a leak in your roof? I think yes. Absolutely, man. Yeah. Right. But then that doesn't change the fact that that's still a problem. Absolutely. Depending on how you define problem. Sure. But like, I think we sort of have something right there. So, so don't,

You're doing great. I mean, like, I don't mean to be condescending, but like, let's just think about what you just said and really just think about it for a second. It doesn't matter how you define problem, sort of, because you're saying so. OK, like you're saying, OK, so if you want to define problem is like something that is out of your control. That's how you defined it. Right. The problem is something that's out of your control. Fair enough. We can take that definition. My roof is leaking. Can I be at peace? Yes or no. What do you think? Yeah. Yeah. OK, so there we go.

So we're defining problems as things outside of our control, and we can be at peace if there are things outside of our control, right? Yeah. Okay, so let's go back. What is the nature of peace? An absence of problems? I don't think so, according to what you just said. Now, you can push back against that, which you should if you feel like it. What is the nature of peace? An absence of problems? Yeah. Yeah, I get what you're saying. So what do you think? Can you be at peace? Don't answer logically. Answer from your heart.

Yeah, I absolutely think you can be at peace. Okay. I think all I meant by it was if you define peace as a lack of problems, then no, because the problems are coming. Fine. But if you define peace as problems happening and you have the ability to be okay with them, then you can be at peace. Yeah, so definitions are of the mind, right? So I can define you as an OnlyFans creator if I want to. That doesn't make it... That's just...

May not be true. I can define things however I want to. Definitions are human constructs. They're not actually reality. Does that make sense? Yeah. Right? So, like, I know it sounds weird, but, like, literally, and maybe someone who's trained in philosophy will disagree with me, but I think by definition, a definition is a human, an abstraction that is a human brain trying to, like, create a pattern that mirrors reality. It's not reality itself. Right.

So peace, the way you define peace is irrelevant to me. The question is like, so peace is something that is a state that is achievable, which is how I'm defining it. So, so what I mean is that peace, I believe is an experience. It is a human experience. And the way that you define it is completely independent for how it is achieved. Okay. Right. So I think the, the confusing thing maybe for you is that, do you feel at peace with

Largely. I think, so for me, I would define peace as like a state of like continuous contentment in which things will come up, but you have all the tools at your disposal to be able to deal with them. And I'd say I'm like 60% there. You know what I mean? Like I'd say some things still get to me on a level that I would like it if they don't get to me. But I've built up a toolbox to be able to deal with a lot of the things that did used to previously bother me.

And so those things I wouldn't count as like problems so much anymore. Okay, cool. So your presumption, are you okay running down this for a little bit or you want to, how do you feel about this? So you're saying that we'll try to like wrap up in 10 to 15. Does that work for you? Okay. If you want longer or shorter, just let me know. Okay. So you're saying that there's a certain amount of tools that you have. And since you have the right tools, you can deal with problems and they don't disturb your peace.

Right? What is the nature... So what does a tool do for your... What is the connection between a tool that you have and the piece that you achieve? I guess... So I see tools as like ways of thinking, like almost mechanisms that you can program your brain into that allow it to take an input that's an issue and kind of mess it around a little bit and then give you an output that's actually...

Helping you as opposed to hindering you. You know what I mean? It's like a it's a rewiring technique that you've learned. Yeah, okay So I agree with you. So if that's the way you're defining it Yeah, so I think that makes a lot of sense So what I'm hearing you say is that when life throws you let's say a hundred things You know how to respond to them internally in your head to where 60 out of a hundred no longer disturb you and

And the gap is in the 40 that you don't know how to respond to and maintain your tranquility. Yeah. So it's more about the maintenance of your tranquility using some kind of cognitive intervention. And if you can find the right cognitive intervention, then your tranquility will be maintained. Okay. Yeah, I agree. So, but the interesting thing is that I, okay, I think we're saying the same thing because I think it's all about peace is all about attitude, right?

So, you know, in the Hindu tradition or in Sanskrit, there's a word called vairagya, which means detachment. And what the Buddha said is that it is our attachment to things that brings our suffering and disturbs our peace. And if we cultivate detachment, then we will be at peace all the time. And peace is not actually about whether the roof is leaking. It is entirely just like you said, when the camera goes down or doesn't go down,

It is entirely about the way that you respond to that leak internally. And I think you've made a really strong case. I mean, if people disagree with you, all they need to do is look at where you are and look at where they are.

And I'm not saying you're better than anyone or anything like that on a fundamental human value system. But I think you have figured out some methodologies that have led you to a place, and I'm not glazing on you here. I think it's just like you've done well, right? It sounds like you're happy. It sounds like you have a good relationship with your parents. It sounds like you're financially successful. And I don't think that's a coincidence. Like, I don't think that's luck. I think what we see is an internal process that is...

probably exhausting for most people a level of like internal adjustment which has been consistent on a daily basis like the battles that you fight are not to solve the problems outside of you it is to optimize yourself to be able to face the problems and you fight that battle every single day multiple times a day yeah yeah how do i sometimes less about like how do i fix this problem it's like

How do I create the systems to prevent this problem and every subsequent problem? And I think it's like this. The systems that you create are both external and internal. And I think there's a lot of just really great, simple stuff. Like if it takes less than five minutes, just don't let it stack because then you're going to feel like you're behind. So it's really interesting how you've come up with things to protect your mental state.

That's what I also thought was really interesting, that a lot of what you do is to preserve, like, I don't want to feel behind. I don't want to feel defensive. Because if you feel those ways, if you feel mentally stressed, then it affects your performance. So I think there's a lot of great stuff in there. Cool. Thanks for getting it out of me. Thanks for sharing it. I think there's a lot to be learned. Do you want to, any questions that you have or comments before we wrap up for the day? Not really, not on my end.

Cool, man. So can you tell us a little bit about who you are, where people can find you, what you do? Yeah, we're Mr. Who's the Boss. That's pretty much it. I don't really have a product to sell or anything like that. That'll be something we'll do in the near future, I'm sure. But it's trying to find the right thing. Cool. So find you on YouTube. What's the origin of the name? It's a great question. It's largely like...

a product of when it started you know like i was 14 like what does an xbox gamer tag mean so you started your youtube channel when you were 14 yeah oh wow that's awesome yeah so it's

Yeah, so it didn't really mean much apart from like, oh, this is cool and not taken. But it's one of those weird things where for a long period of time, I thought, oh, I should probably change this, right? This is like maybe a bit immature or something. But every time I have that thought, someone's like, don't do that. It's like it sticks and people remember it and it's different. And, you know, it's always weird when someone like taps me on the shoulder, you're Mr. Who's the boss. And I'm like, yeah, that's like I invented that name. That's weird that someone's come to me and they're saying the thing that I invented in my bedroom.

Yeah. Cool, man. That's awesome. So thank you so much for coming. I appreciate your ability to tolerate the cringe and not change the name that you came up with when you were 14. Right. And you're right. It is. I think it's, it's cool. Like I love that, you know, the internet used to be a different place and I, I think it's cool when we sort of keep those roots and,

like the internet was not as polished and sterile and corporate of the play it it used to be you know the og youtuber days which it sounds like you were pretty close to the second generation of og youtubers um but thank you very much for coming i think you know if y'all so if y'all want

uh mr who's the boss's take on like tech and stuff which is not something that we do i know we had a bunch of questions about like balancing healthy and unhealthy technologies whatever but i i think it sounds like you're uh you know you really do a lot of like thoughtful work and i think you i mean anyone who listened to this i'm sure you all can tell how thoughtful and careful and can like considered arun is in terms of the work that he does so

We don't ever review tech things. So if you guys are like interested in like how to use tech products for your benefit instead of, and maybe I'm sure you've got stuff on there about like, like you said, like lifestyle productivity, I'm sure there's like healthy tech related things you have on your channel. In a way, like the entire channel is about trying to make people's lives better. Cool. That, so that, that I think like synergizes really well with the work that we're doing in a completely different method. Yeah.

So thank you so much for coming on. Thanks for taking the risk of like doing something live. Yeah, it was nice. And yeah, again, at the next opportunity. Take care of body. Yeah. Cheers. Bye. Okay. Let me see how I got it. So that was wild, man. And so I think, I think the one, like the one big takeaway that I had was there's always, so two, not one, there are a couple of huge takeaways. One is,

There are always going to be problems. So our choice is not, he doesn't try to get rid of problems. He doesn't try to be problem free. What he tries to do is embraces a particular slice of problems that moves him in the right direction. That I think is huge. I haven't heard that before. Second thing that he does is it's really interesting how his solution space is

is very action-oriented and not trying to fix his circumstances. It's really interesting. The other thing that I thought was interesting is how he bounced around between a lot of different things. It's not like one thing. It's kind of like when I think about some of the content that we make, the goal is to try to kind of get people to where he is.

And it's so interesting because we break it down, right? So it's like, okay, here's discipline. Here's perception. Here's ego. Here's mental habits. Here's emotional processing. And if y'all go through all of that stuff, and I think this is the other key thing that I firmly believe is that it's not an opportunity cost. So you can be happier, more productive, and more financially successful and have healthier relationships. It is not an opportunity cost.

If y'all are living a life where you believe you have to trade happiness for productivity or sacrifice relationships for work or something like that, I fundamentally don't agree with that premise. I think that just means that you're doing it wrong. Right. And I don't know if this I don't know if that makes sense. I'm sure to like people will be really upset at me for saying that. But I think that there's definitely I mean, there's even scientific evidence that

adopting a growth mindset instead of a performance mindset improves your performance and makes you happier. There's also a ton of information that shows, I don't know if this makes perfect sense, right? So if I'm more depressed, what do you think is going to happen to my productivity? If I'm more depressed, what do you think is going to happen to my relationships? If my relationships are bad, what do you think is going to happen to my mood?

So we live in a world where everyone is facing these hard choices. Do I do this or do this? Whereas we have a saying in psychiatry that all boats rise together. So when the water level goes up, everything goes up. And the key thing is figuring out not how to raise a particular boat,

but how to raise the water level. So when your mood improves, and just like Arun was saying, like, you know, if he's vibing with the camera people instead of panicking about how some camera has gone down, his energy is going to be better. He's going to have to do fewer retakes and the video will overall be better. Like that's how it works. And the reason that we always make these trades in our life is because we don't know what the OP techniques are.

And these OP techniques have been studied, whether you want to call it like meditation. So meditation is one of the OG OP techniques. Improves your focus, improves your happiness, improves your productivity, improves your mood, improves your cortisol level. It does all of the above. And then there are all of these cognitive techniques.

techniques that we can do. Detachment, acceptance, focusing on what you can control. These are all small changes that we can make internally that will help us be better in our relationships, more productive, and happier. So I think it's absolutely possible. It's just, and kind of our mission on this channel is to make that accessible to y'all, teach y'all how to do this stuff. And occasionally we'll do things like interviews that sort of emphasize this.

Thanks for joining us today. We're here to help you understand your mind and live a better life. If you enjoyed the conversation, be sure to subscribe. Until next time, take care of yourselves and each other.