364 Second Career in Aviation: Flying for PlaneSense with Jim Goldfuss + GA News
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Have you ever thought about leaving your current job and having a second career in aviation? Today we're talking with Jim Goldfuss, who left his career, became a CFI, and about two years later was hired by PlaneSense to fly charters around the country in the Pilatus PC-12. So stick around to hear the strategy that he used to get his dream job and what it's like to fly charter for PlaneSense. Hello again and welcome to Aviation News Talk, where we talk general aviation. I'm

My name is Max Trescott. I've been flying for 50 years. I'm the author of several books and the 2008 National Flight Instructor of the Year. And my mission is to help you become the safest possible pilot.

Last week in episode 363, we talked with Dr. Mark Alford about what it was like buying a Cirrus Vision Jet, getting the type rating, and flying around the country with me for 25 hours. So if you didn't hear that episode, you may want to check it out at aviationnewstalk.com slash 363. And if you were new to the show, you just found us, welcome.

And so that you stick around in whatever app that you're using, touch either the subscribe key or if you're using Spotify or the Apple podcast app, the follow key so that next week's episode is downloaded for free. And this is a listener supported show. So if you've been listening for a while and enjoy the show and value our mission, which is to help make you a safer pilot, then please, if you would think about what that's worth to you.

And then take a moment right now and support the show via PayPal, Venmo, Zelle, or Patreon by going out on the web to aviationnews.com slash support to sign up and support the show. And when you do, I'll read your name on the show. Coming up in the news for the week of January 13th, 2025, an airline pilot is arrested. Hiring by the airlines was down sharply in 2024. And we have an aviation cats and dogs story. All this and more in the news starts now.

And this is the kind of story we hate hearing, but it happens about once a year. From PaddleYourOwnCanoe.com, a Southwest pilot was arrested just before he was about to get behind the controls of a Boeing 737 early on Wednesday morning after a TSA agent detected booze on his breath.

According to the sheriff's office, a 51-year-old pilot was arrested by the Savannah Airport Police on suspicion of driving under the influence and is being held on a bond of $3,500. Southwest Flight 3772 was due to depart Savannah Hilton Head International at around 6.05 a.m. on January 15th for the two-hour flight to Chicago Midway Airport. And from FlyingMag.com, pilot hiring nosedives in 2024.

U.S. pilot hiring tanked in 2024 as airlines continue to face aircraft delivery delays. The reduction comes after several years of record hiring trends as carriers recovered from the pandemic. In 2024, the major U.S. carriers hired 4,834 new pilots, according to data from the Future and Active Pilots Alliance. This figure is a far cry from the over 12,000 pilots hired in 2023, representing a 60% year-to-year drop.

2024's lower numbers are in line with 2019, when U.S. airlines hired 4,977 new pilots. And from FlightGlobal.com, diverse set of aircraft fighting fires in Los Angeles. On January 7th, Mississippi-based Tenex Aerospace got the go-ahead from Cal Fire to deploy one of its fire-mapping King Airs to the L.A. area.

the next day that aircraft started flying fire surveillance missions high above the flames. The King Air carries a belly-mounted imaging suite that includes electro-optical and infrared sensors. Tenex pilots have been flying box patterns, often at night, and at altitudes of 6,000 to 12,000 feet, collecting images that experts use to predict the fire spread.

The aircraft covers several hundred thousand acres an hour and detects up to six inches of hot coals, a spokesman said. It basically gives you a high-resolution heat map of the fire from that you can build prediction models. Additionally, Tenex supplies the Forest Service with 15 King Airs that fly ahead of tankers and use a smoke marking system to identify drop spots.

Other aircraft being used include De Havilland Canada CL series water bombers and Dash 8 400 fire retardant carrying tankers. Several big jet tankers are also on the scene, including BAE-146s, a McDonnell Douglas MD-87, and a DC-10. The DC-10 can unload about 9,000 gallons of fire retardant. From avweb.com, three arrested for two fire-related drone incidents.

Police have arrested three people involved in two drone incidents related to aerial firefighting in L.A. L.A. County Sheriff's Department did not release details of the circumstances of their arrest or whether either of the incidents involved the collision of a drone with a CL-415 water bomber late last week. The specific charges have also not been released. The FBI has said it's looking for the drone pilot involved in the collision.

It's a federal crime punishable by up to 12 months in prison to interfere with firefighting efforts on public lands. Additionally, the FAA can impose a civil penalty of up to $75,000 against any drone pilot who interferes with wildfire suppression, law enforcement, or emergency response operations when TFRs are in place.

Meanwhile, the so-called Super Scooper amphibious self-loading air tanker was expected back in service this week after parts were shipped from the Canadian manufacturer. The parts were needed to fix an 18-square-inch hole in the leading edge of a wing. Whether it and all of the other aerial assets can fly will depend on the intensity of the winds that were forecast to return this week. From Fox35Orlando.com, Boy undergoes heart surgery after drones crash in Florida holiday show mishap.

One person was taken to an area hospital with an injury after red and green-lit drones collided and plummeted into a crowd at Lake Canola Park in downtown Orlando just before the holidays. Fox 35 News spoke with the family of Alexander, a 7-year-old boy who was injured in the incident. His parents said one of the drones knocked him out on impact, causing a chest injury. Alexander underwent open-heart surgery the following day.

Fox 35 News reported that the couple said their son is stable after surgery and is so determined to walk again. A video captured drones crashing into the lake and veering close to spectators. Shortly after, the city of Orlando canceled the second show, citing technical difficulties.

And we've talked in the past about how, in my opinion, many of the 200-plus eVTOL makers will eventually fail because there are so many companies in the market. This first story is about one of the larger firms, Lilium. It comes from Reuters.com.

In November, Reuters announced that the German eVTOL manufacturer Lilium, which employs 1,000 people, would be filing for insolvency after failed fundraising attempts. And from AI Online comes a more recent story that Lilium announces a buyout deal with American and European investors. The German company announced an agreement with Mobil Lift Corporation while confirming reports on December 20th that it had laid off all its employees.

The identities of investors have not been disclosed, but MobilLift has been incorporated in Germany as a private company. It is acquiring Lilium's two German subsidiaries through a transaction expected to close in January. And in a related story from FlagMag.com, electric air taxi manufacturer Volocopter runs out of cash. Volocopter, the manufacturer of a two-seat electrical eVTOL air taxi that expects to fly paying customers later this year, is out of cash.

The firm last week filed for insolvency at a court in Germany where it's based as it searches for new investors. Tobias Wall, the company's core appointed attorney, said it would be developing a restructuring concept to be shared with investors by the end of February. According to SMG's Consulting Advanced Air Mobility Reality Index, Volocopter has raised more than $750 million from private backers, including Mercedes-Benz, Honeywell, and BlackRock.

And from GeneralAviationNews.com, Flight Design pursues restructuring amid insolvency filing. And these are the makers of the CTLS Light Sport aircraft, which I've flown and really like. The story says, Flight Design has filed for insolvency due to a liquidity crisis. Outstanding debts and delayed payments from international customers totaled mid-six figures forced the German-based company to seek court protection on December 3rd. Flight Design has delivered more than 2,000 aircraft since its founding in 1988.

spokesperson said, we will do everything in our power in the coming days and weeks to find a permanent investor solution for flight design. And from GeneralAviationNews.com, this comes from an NTSB final report, Cessna 441 crashes into hangar.

The pilot of the multi-engine Cessna 441 reported that he had pre-flighted the airplane about two hours before his intended departure and asked ground crew at the airport in Liberal, Kansas to reposition the airplane. When the pilot was ready for departure, he reported that he did not do another pre-flight but only walked around the nose of the airplane to get to the entrance door. After he started both engines, the airplane would not taxi forward.

The pilot told investigators that he thought that he'd set the brakes, reduced both engines to an idle power setting, and exited the airplane. He saw a chalk on the airplane's nose wheel, and after he removed the chalk, the airplane began to move forward. He attempted to reboard the unoccupied airplane. However, he was unable to, and the airplane collided with a hangar, sustaining substantial damage to the fuselage.

Probable cause, the pilot's inadequate pre-flight inspection, failure to set the parking brake, and his decision to exit the airplane with engines running to remove a wheeled shock, resulting in the airplane's unintended movement and subsequent collision with a hangar. And also from GeneralAviationNews.com and from another NTSB report, Aronka crashes into hangar after hand propping goes awry.

The pilot reported that the Aronca 65CA does not have an electrical system and needed to be hand-propped to start the engine. There were no tire chocks or tie-down ropes on the ramp, so he asked for help from an individual at the airport in Deming, New Mexico, whom he believed was a pilot, and said that he had experience with assisting in hand-propping an airplane.

The pilot instructed the individual on the procedures, and with the throttle set to an eighth of an inch open and the individual in the pilot's seat, he then positioned himself in front of the airplane and spun the propeller. The engine started as expected and immediately went to a high RPM setting. The airplane began forward movement under high RPM and speed, and subsequently hit a light pole and airport hangar after the individual in the cockpit could not stop the airplane.

The pilot reported that after the collision, he found the throttle position to the full forward position instead of the idle position, and that the individual reported that he went the wrong direction with the throttle. Probable cause? The occupant's improper throttle movement during the start procedure, which resulted in forward movement and loss of airplane control. And from avweb.com, pilot dies after falling from suspended citabria.

The pilot of a Satabria survived its crash and entanglement with high-tension power lines, but later died when he fell 150 feet from the suspended aircraft. The mishap occurred Sunday afternoon about 2.30 p.m. local near Batesville, Arkansas. He apparently stayed with the aircraft for several hours before falling. He died later from his injuries. And from aeronews.net, search for missing Las Vegas pilot continues.

No signs of a 65-year-old pilot, Michael Martin, have been found after his aircraft's transponder stopped transmitting on January 2nd. His plane was last reported at 10,000 feet near Jefferson Peak.

Martin is an aerospace engineer and father of two. He owns a 1968 Piper Cherokee 6 that he, according to his family, often flew during lunch breaks to unwind. His family reported that he always let someone know before taking off and making a loop around Mount Charleston. So when he took off solo on January 2nd, it was nothing out of the ordinary. He departed from the North Las Vegas airport at 10.51 a.m. and headed northwest.

However, his aircraft's transponder stopped transmitting at 11.15 a.m. Its location was last signaled at 10,000 feet just outside of Indian Springs. Search and rescue teams have used drones, helicopters, and ground crews to comb through the region in hopes of finding any sign of Martin or his aircraft. After over a week, all efforts have proved to be unsuccessful.

One of his daughters explained that the family originally believed that he just needed a one-to-two-day break from the long and stressful holiday season. However, after two days with no sign of his plane and being unable to get in touch with him, they decided to report him missing. And finally, from FlyingMag.com, aviation group airlifts dogs, cats from wildfire region.

Volunteer pilots helped clear shelters in the region to transport animals to opportunities for new forever homes in Oregon and Seattle. Wings of Rescue, in partnership with Paws for Life Canine Rescue, transported animals surrendered to five city shelters and seven county shelters in the greater L.A. area before the onset of the wildfires in order to make room for pets who have been separated from their families during the fire and need temporary shelter.

Sunday, a jet loaded with 39 dogs and 18 cats arrived at King County International Airport, Boeing Field in Seattle. The flight was met by volunteers from Seattle Humane, which provides pet adoption services along with a pet food bank and low-cost spay-neuter surgeries and wellness exams. Seattle Humane has shelters around the state and connections across the country to help animals in need.

By relocating the animals to other states, it will allow California shelters to focus on reunited displaced pets with their families. Brandon Max, spokesperson for Seattle Humane, said all L.A. shelters were facing overcrowding before the fire hits. Max said most of the rescue flights are done because of shelter overcrowding, but they also respond to disasters, noting that they did flights prompted by Hurricane Ian and the Maui-Hawaii fires.

The flight out of fire-ravaged California was personal for Wings of Rescue's Rick Browdy, who spent 30 years in L.A. working as a record producer, before he decided that flying at-risk animals to a new life was more fulfilling. Browdy joined the organization in 2013 and in 2017 became the president and CEO of the nonprofit. He told Flying Magazine that friends of his have lost their homes and others are keeping watch on the fire's behavior, but the missions continue.

The organization owns a Pilatus PC-12, and for larger operations, charter aircraft such as Embraer Brasilias or Saabs, which are capable of loading around 100 crates, are used to transport the animals. Browdy said, quote, Normally animals brought into the shelters in California become property of the shelter after four days and then become available for adoption. But when a pet is brought in after a disaster, the state must wait 30 days before the animal can be moved.

We want to give the owners ample time to find their pets after a disaster. Wings of Rescue accepts donations to help its operation. It takes a lot of money to fly the airplanes across the country, Browdy said. The organization also welcomes the help of private pilots who own pressurized private aircraft and are willing to volunteer for our rescue flight. Well, that's the news this week. Coming up next, a few of my updates. And then later, we'll talk with Jim Goldfuss about his second career in aviation flying a Pilatus PC-12.

All right here on the Aviation News Talk podcast.

And I've got to tell you, our interview today with Jim Goldfuss was one of the more enjoyable interviews I've ever done. He has such great energy. I think you're going to love that discussion about what it took for him to go from working in one career to transitioning to another career flying the Pilatus PC-12. So stick around for that. And now let me tell you about our video of the week. This comes from the story we talked about in the news about the drone show in Orlando, in which drones started dropping from the sky in large numbers. And the

And the video also shows one drone flying at high speed next to the person shooting the video. And just a few moments ago, I saw that the NTSB preliminary report has come out. It says that combined errors and a missing parameter file have been cited in their report for last month's drone crash in Orlando.

Now, our links for this video and all of our videos of the week are on the same page with links that you can use to become a supporter and support the show. So when you go to view the videos, look at the bottom of the page for the video links. And at the top of the page, you'll see four options for supporting the show. You can sign up monthly to support the show via Patreon. And there are various tiers starting at $8 a month. And by the way, the $20 a month tier includes access to the

94 videos I've posted for Patreon supporters. You can also make a monthly donation via PayPal. And you can make a one-time donation via PayPal, Venmo, or Zelle.

And to see our videos of the week or support the show, go out to aviationnewstalk.com slash video. A couple updates. First, kudos to Cirrus, which announced that they shipped their 600th Vision Jet. Pretty impressive. And that is the most popular business jet model. They ship more Vision Jets than any other company ships of their models every year. And here's a report I saw on NASA's ASRS reporting system. Comes from September 21st.

2024, the CFI wrote, my student and I were doing pattern work in our Cessna 150. We were about three quarters down our downwind leg for runway XX. When the Cirrus called that they were joining the downwind behind us, we turned our base leg. Then a few seconds later, the Cirrus called, quote, they had us in sight and were turning base in front of us. My iPad showed us very close together, nearly on top of each other. And when I looked out the left window, the aircraft was almost right beside us.

I straightened out my base leg and extended past the taxiway before turning onto a sidestepped upwind leg. The pilot should have either slowed down or done a right 360 in the downwind. To that I would add, he could have also flown a longer downwind instead of cutting me and my student off. And I'd like to remind everyone that FAR 91.113 applies to this.

And it says in part, when two or more aircraft are approaching an airport for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at the lower altitude has the right of way, but it shall not take advantage of this role to cut in front of another which is on final approach to land or to overtake that aircraft. And a week or two ago, I did a night cross country with someone working on his commercial and we had to do the two hour night cross country of a hundred nautical miles or more.

And while flying southeastbound towards Salinas, California, I heard a SkyWest aircraft tell ATC that they'd been struck by a laser. Now, we had no idea where that aircraft was located. So I asked ATC, and they said about three miles northwest of Salinas. And I said, so we're headed right toward it? And he said, yes.

Now, we've been flying at 3,500 feet to beat the headwinds, but I suggested we start a climb to 5,500 feet, where we'd be less likely to be spotted by a laser guy, and alter our course a few miles to the east over the mountains rather than fly over downtown Salinas.

And then I suggested we go into stealth mode. Now when I'm flying in the metro area with lots of traffic, I usually leave my landing light on all the time, both in the day and the night, to make us more visible to other aircraft. But in this case, we wanted to be less visible. So we turned off our landing light and briefly turned off our strobes as we flew by Salinas. And this worked for us as there were no signs of laser guy as we flew by the city.

And by the way, I had brought along with me on this trip the laser eyewear protection that's designed for pilots that I talked about two years ago in episode 223. So if you're interested in that, check that episode out at aviationnewstalk.com slash 223.

And I saw a couple of things this week that were interesting. At one point, I watched a guy who was rolling up the cover for the airplane that he was about to fly on the pavement. Worse than that, it looked like he had the white soft side of the cover directly on the ground. Now, that's the part that touches the window when you put it back on the airplane. So you run the risk of picking up dirt and gravel from the tarmac and then having that potentially scratch the windshield. So please, please,

When you're folding up covers, don't put them on the ground unless maybe it's a grassy area. And we also had an interesting situation landing at Watsonville, California. The pilot I was flying with was practicing the 180 degree accuracy landing for his commercial check ride, which is in a day or two. And on short final for one of the landings, I noticed about six deer running from left to right across runway 20, relatively close to where we would be touching down.

I called for a go-around, and the pilot went around. He then commented that it looked like he would have been touching down just behind the last of the deer as they crossed. And I told him I agreed, but that even though I was looking in the grass to the left of the runway to see if there were any stragglers behind the main group of deer that we saw on the runway, and I didn't see any, it would be easy to miss a single deer in the grass, and so it was prudent to go around.

Because anytime you see one or more animals or birds, there may be others with them that are a little behind the main pack that you don't see. Now that was a big aha for him and he agreed it made sense to go around. And I thought of another scenario afterwards that I didn't think of at the time. Sometimes I see animals freak out and while they're initially running the correct way, they may become scared and confused and reverse direction.

So while it was clear that we would have passed right behind the deer after they made it to the edge of the runway, we would have been in big trouble if one or more of those deer suddenly reversed direction and ran directly in front of us because at that point we wouldn't have been able to avoid them.

So as I've said before, when you're faced with two choices, always choose the more conservative one. And remember that with animals or birds on or near the runway, you may not be seeing all of the animals and birds, and you can't always predict what they'll do. So definitely consider going around when you're encountering wildlife. And aviation is a small community. So see if you know any of these people who signed up in the last month to support the show. And just to keep the list short, I think I'll read half the names now and half the names next week.

Special thanks to our two new mega supporters. They include Bill O'Crew and Gabriel Martinez. These are the folks that sign up to donate $50 a month, and after two months, I send them a signed copy of one of my books. And we also had other supporters via Patreon that include Purple Haze and Herman McDaniel.

Also, thanks to these supporters who donated via PayPal or Venmo, Richard Benson, Neil Vien, and also David Stewart and Shailan Perky. Coming up next, our conversation with Jim Goldfuss, where he talks about what it's like to fly charter for PlaneSense. All right here on the Aviation News Talk podcast.

And now let me tell you a little about Jim Goldfuss. Jim got his private in 1989 and had planned on becoming an airline pilot, but life got in the way. In 2020, he returned to flying, getting his instrument, commercial CFI and CFII, and started teaching at Long Island Aviators at the Republic Airport. Jim is now enjoying his second career as a PC-12 First Officer with Plane Sense. And now here's our conversation with Jim Goldfuss.

Jim, welcome to the show. I am so happy to have you here today. It's great to be here, Max. Still to be here. Well, the reason I'm so happy is because you are doing what many listeners have told me that they want to do, which is they want to transition from their current career and go fly for a living. So if you would, tell us a little bit about briefly your first career and then what prompted you to seek a second career in aviation. Sure. Just so everybody knows where I'm at. I live in on Long Island, actually New York, lived here all my life.

And my dad worked for United. So for the longest time, I've been around aviation all my life. And as a kid, I wanted to be an airline pilot. Got my private pilot license back in 1989. But at the time, finances ran a little tight and didn't have the money I had to pursue it. So I wound up pursuing it.

pursuing other avenues, got married, had kids, went into the retail drugstore business for a while as a manager, did some logistics work, working at companies like UPS, worked for United and TWA, if you remember TWA way back when, but ultimately wound up in logistics, working warehouse management at different levels, mostly locally, smaller businesses, New York Blood Center here in the New York area,

But there was always that part of me on the inside that just wanted to get back to flying. I would go back occasionally and do a BFR back then and try to keep myself current. But yeah, I could never make the finances work to pursue it. So in 2020, I was working as a warehouse manager and watching a truck make a delivery. It's like, you know what? I'd really rather be looking at airplanes than trucks. And

And I looked at my logbook and I had a whopping 160 hours in my logbook. And I was looking at where we were, the kids were grown. We were in a good place, me and my wife at the time and spoke with her, got her buy-in as like, I want to, I'd like to make a run and at least get, become a flight instructor. And yeah,

I had to start with the instrument rating. Got my instrument in February of 2021. I started training right when COVID came out. So I started the best time to start flying, uh, COVID 2020. I got the instrument February year later, did my commercial, got that in August of 21. I got my CFI in January of 22. And the school where I trained at said, the minute you get your CFI, we need instructors. We'll bring you on. So I started instructing February of 22 and, uh,

Got my CFI in May of 22. So that's sort of the short version of how I got to where I was. But yeah, for about 30 years, I was out of the aviation world altogether, doing logistics and retail management, training and development programs.

But there was always a draw in the back of my head. I wanted to get back. That's great. Well, and also it sounds like you moved into your current job pretty quickly because you've got your CFI about two and a half years ago. What did being a CFI help you with kind of preparing you for your current job? What did you learn from that? You know, it's funny. It's,

I can't say enough for me, becoming a CFI made me a better pilot all around, you know, teaching and all that stuff as a pilot made me much better. But learning to find out the reasons why you do things was probably the biggest thing for me. When you have a student, it's easy to teach them how to do something, but when you can teach them the whys of why something is happening or why you're doing something, it's

The knowledge that you get from that, the understanding of the bigger picture that you're flying in really, really comes to play. And it's funny because when I was jumping ahead a little bit, when I was during my initial operating experience, I was flying with a captain and I was going through some procedures and setting some speeds and all. And he would always ask me, why are you doing that? Why did you set that speed?

And it wasn't that he was challenging me is he wanted to understand why I was doing something because his, he basically said the worst answer you could give is I'm doing it because that's what I was told, or that's what we always do.

And being a flight instructor really helped me to understand the why of why things get done and why you're doing certain things on certain approaches, why there's a wind shear or why you do this on a crosswind landing. The other thing, it really worked on my communication skills. And I'm sure you understand as an instructor that

The way I speak with you and talk with you may be completely different than the next person I'm with. And as an instructor, I always looked at that as if they're not picking up a certain topic, it's the way I'm explaining it versus them not picking it up. So it really taught me how to

use my communication skills to connect with other people and to get messages out and get the learning to happen. And that's really important, especially in a crew environment where you're working with different people that are different than you. And it really helped me

me to transition into like a crew environment and working together as a crew. Yeah. A couple of different things you said there really resonated with me. I mean, the first thing was the why I learned very early on as a flight instructor that adults want to know why maybe you can just tell kids, Hey, you know, do it. They're probably not, not all the time, but adults in particular, when they're learning, they really want to know why. And I know I want to know why, because it helps stick in my brain. If I just know the what,

but I don't know the why, it's harder for me to remember it. So why really helps put everything together. And in terms of communications, yes, I can think of that kind of in two levels. One is just kind of matching the speed and the rhythm and style of speech. But the other one is that I've learned that sometimes when you explain something one way, people don't get it. And so it's really important to

to be able to reframe it in your mind and think, okay, well, let's see, how can I explain it a different way? Maybe using different words. And that's, I think, just a really powerful skill that CFIs hopefully are developing. Yeah. Now, and the other thing, it's funny, thinking about it as well, the other thing is being a CFI help with

was getting into airplanes with more advanced avionics. You know, as a CFI, you'd have people that want to learn to fly, obviously the G1000, but as a CFI, I got to fly airplanes, glass archers that had a whole array of different Garmin avionics inside it, not just the G1000. I would go take different programs to introduce me to different avionics suites so that I could better teach it to people. And

That was a tremendous advantage for me because that's what a lot of these companies are looking for. You can fly, obviously, but also are you familiar with different avionics suites and can you pick them up?

So that was a big one for me as well. Yeah, I think that's probably one of the biggest transitions that we've seen in the aviation industry in the last 25 years. If you look back into the prior century, which wasn't that long ago, you could really jump in most any airplane and you could figure out how to use that VOR receiver. And I did that numerous times and there were –

an amazing number of companies that made VOR receivers back in the last century. And yeah, you could generally figure it out. But now with GPS and with glass cockpits, no, you can't just jump in an airplane and figure it out. Yes, you can figure out some of this stuff, but this really has changed, I think, the game. Pilots actually need to spend more time outside the airplane studying the manuals or taking the online courses because it's a different world now.

Oh, sure. No, absolutely. And you know from flying the Cirrus, you know, the Vision Jet, it gives you so much information. And it's all great information, but it can be overwhelming. Yeah, absolutely, especially if you don't know how to use it. Well, let's talk about PlaneSense. You apparently did a lot of research and decided that they were a special place that you wanted to go work for. Tell us about that process. What kind of research did you do, and how did you come to that conclusion? Yeah.

Yeah, it's funny. I heard about it from my instructor. He had mentioned the company back in 2020 when I was first on the fly, and I'd never heard of them before. And I started looking into them online. I went to airline interviews and some of the websites just to get some background on them. And everything I saw was pretty positive. I will be up front right now. Some of my cross countries that I did with some students, the distance ones, I did with some of my students.

We did to places where I knew the chances of running into a Plain Sense pilot was relatively good. A place like Nantucket or Martha's Vineyard. And some of the times they were there. And as long as I knew the pilots weren't with clients or weren't busy, I would approach them and ask them what they thought of the place. How was it? And everybody was really positive. They were friendly. They were welcoming. They loved where they were flying. And the vibe I got was just really positive.

So the next step I did after that was I went to LinkedIn and went to the Plain Sense site, found the name of a couple of recruiters and the HR people and reached out to one. I messaged one and just said, hey, you know, I'm at 550 hours and I'd really love the opportunity to fly there. What can I do? They got right back to me. They gave me the hours requirements, 750, but told me to submit a resume, update it every 50 hours. And they sort of guided me along.

And I really felt like they were interested in me. Like they were talking to me, like taking the time. So I did all that. And I kept building my hours. I was instructing. Sun and Fun came. So I reached out to my connection. I said, hey, I'm going to go down to Sun and Fun. Would it be all right if I drop by and said hello? And she said, well, I'm not going to be there, but this is who you can go meet.

Went to Sun and Fun, and I met the recruiters down there, and they talked to me for a while. And we had just small talk about different things, but they spent a lot of time with me when they weren't with other people. And my logic was, it's another face to be in front of that might get back to HR and say, hey, this guy seemed pretty cool. We had a wedding up in Maine, and Plain Sands is located in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, right off of I-95. And we were coming down from Maine. I was like, gee, we're going to be passing there.

So I reached out again and said, is there any chance me and my wife could get a tour? And sure enough, she set that up for us. Me and my wife went up there, you know, both were dressed nicely and had the head of safety. Give me and my wife a tour of the facility, brought us into a BC-12, a BC-24, catered it to my wife, which I thought was great because he doesn't need to sell me on it, but really explained a lot to my wife because she's been a big partner in this the whole way.

But again, another opportunity for FaceTime with people and another person to say, hey, he seems pretty good. And eventually all that networking, the updating of the resume, which I can't overemphasize, updating it all the time. Eventually it all wound up with a technical interview. But it took me about a year of working my resources, building my time. I only started at 550 when I made that first contact. So it was building the hours. But

making the connections while not being a pain in the neck, if you know what I mean. No, it sounds like you're just a genius in terms of the way that you've approached this. I'm just curious, were there other companies, and you don't have to mention names that you thought of, and if so, what kinds of things about them were different where you thought, eh, I'm not so sure? There were a few local. I was only looking at Charter. For me, I was 57 at the time, 58 now. So for me,

And this is unique to me. I just didn't feel going the airline route made sense for me to start an airline at 50. I'd have to retire at 65. You know, I like to go to a place and stay there.

So I was really only looking at the charter world. Plain Sense was really resonating me. There were a few other small carriers do similar things that I looked into, but I just didn't get that culture, that feel, the resonance I was getting when I was talking with people that I got when I was talking with people from Plain Sense. So really just...

How they were with me, how they talked, never felt like I was being a nuisance. And they were always so open to me that they became the only place I was looking at. So tell us a little bit about the company. Most people probably aren't familiar with it. How would you describe it in terms of the different kinds of aircraft they have and number of pilots and how long they've been around and their bases? Tell us all about that. They operate the PC-12 and the PC-24. They've been in business since 1995. They're the largest company.

operator of the PC-12 in the world. Since 1995, they've taken delivery of 92 PC-12s. Currently, we have, I believe it's about 46 PC-12s. When they get to 8 to 10 years old, they usually cycle them out and they always have new ones coming in. So the average age of their fleet is like 5 to 7 years old. But basically, to fly PC-12s, PC-24s, base-wise, I'm based out of JFK, the White Plains JFK area.

They have, I believe it's about 42 published bases. You pick your base, which I thought was great as well. As long as you're with an hour and a half to two hours of a base, you can pick your own, which for me was really convenient. They had white planes for me. They made a JFK for me, New York metro area, because it's easier for them to transfer me out of JFK.

But they've been doing it since 1995. They're constantly getting new PC-12s in from Pilatus. They're just about to have more NGXs than NGs. And as an aside, my wife always laughs because I'll sit there sometimes and I'll say, yeah, I'm in an older plane today. And she laughs because I'm talking about an older plane being five years old versus when I was flight instructing flying one that was built in the late 80s.

I'm just laughing, thinking about some of the airplanes that I used to flight instruct in. And most of them were actually in the 70s, because the most planes ever built was 1979. So there are just a ton of those airplanes. And boy, they're not nearly as much fun to fly in as the new ones, are they? Oh, they're not. They're not. You get spoiled really quick. Yeah, they have the top of the line equipment inside there. It's

It's a Honeywell Apex system, which was something completely unique to me when I went there. But the training there was fabulous to get me acclimated to it. You have to have the auto throttle, synthetic vision, the three axis autopilot. So all the bells and whistles that you could think of.

are in these planes. And it's just, it's just amazing when I sit in there and I look at what I'm flying and it's, you know, I just feel so lucky and privileged to be doing what I'm doing. Yes. You and me both. Hey, I think there's kind of a somewhat unique ownership model that PlaneSense has for the aircraft. Talk about that. Who owns the airplanes and who ends up flying on them in the backseat?

It's a fractional company. So people buy shares of the aircraft. And when there are enough people interested in purchasing a share, they go out and they actually purchase a new PC-12 or 24 based on their needs. We're basically flying our clients, the owners around, 91K usually. So we could be flying just the owner around someplace or we could have a full boat in the back of six people flying with them.

They also do charter work under a different company name called Cobalt Air. So you could privately charter them, but the bulk of their planes are used for the owner flights around the country. So the availability could be limited, but they do do private charter as well, 135 through the separate company Cobalt Air.

But most of my flights are, you know, it could be just one person, just, you know, an owner or a member of the family, or we could be taking six people somewhere. So it's a, it's a huge variety, you know, animals, pets.

You name it, I've seen it all in the back. That's funny. So tell us a little bit about the interview, how many hours you had when you went for the interview and the training that they then sent you on to. By the time they called me, I was running about 1100 hours. The two key ones that seemed to come up was 75 night, because it seemed like when I hit the 75 night, that's when things started moving ahead quickly. And they're looking for the instrument time as well.

I got a phone call. I was down in Florida visiting my son. I got a phone call saying that they were going to set up a technical interview for me, which is done. You do it at home. They do it online. It's a, it's called just like this. And they send you a packet of approach plates and stars. And it's about a week before, give you a chance to review them.

And then the technical basically covered a review of those plates. They would ask you questions about certain things. You know, if you were clear for the approach and you were here, where would you fly to? What could you do? Just to make sure you have a good understanding of approach plates and some of the gotchas involved in that. They talk a little about you and your experience. But in all honesty, I found the technical interview to be very, very straightforward. Payment.

Past that, next day they told me they were going to invite me up to Portsmouth. I did the interviews up in Portsmouth. Sometimes they do them at some of the, you know, train like Sun and Fawn or things like that.

But I went up to Portsmouth for the HR and the simulator interview. HR was straightforward and like a normal HR interview, make you very comfortable to ask you some questions. You know, you know, how would you handle this situation? You know, if a pilot wasn't fit to fly, how would you handle that as a second in command and sort of challenge you to see how you would act, what you would do. And I felt there was really to get a sense of who you were, what kind of person I, you know, Leo,

We are more diving deep into the personality, seeing how you fit in and all. And then after that, you go to a simulator, which was a Redbird. I believe this was a Redbird FMX set up as a 182. Let me do one lap around the pattern just to get used to it and get used to the trim and all. And if I remember right, it was, I think it was departure out of Morristown, followed the SID. They vectored me around for an instrument approach back in.

No real gotchas. They really just want to make sure that you are proficient with your instrument skills and flying the plane. And then on my way home from Portsmouth, the next day I got the email stating that I successfully passed everything and I was just waiting for a training date.

So, uh, made my drive home much more pleasant at that point. That sounds really great. And so it sounds like they pre-qualify people and then they, the training dates are set when what they've got multiple people already to do at the same time, or how long did you wait for that? Tell us about that. I got the, okay. The, you know, the, Hey, you passed. We're going to, we, we got you a pool ready to start training at the end of November. Uh,

My training class ran that being May of the following year. So I waited a little bit as a funny aside. I'll put this out there when I started waiting, I was still instructing and I'm trying to keep myself motivated. I'm not looking to go anywhere else. I'm waiting for this date to come. And just to keep me motivated, I do believe in positive thinking and all that. They had one of their planes parked on our ramp, took a picture of it. And I just posted it on my desk.

And when I come down, there would be it's coming. Just believe it's coming. You're going to get that date any day now.

I get the call. I go to training my first day in the actual airplane. I'm walking out to the plane, looking at it. And wouldn't you know, it was the plane I had taken the picture of back in November. That was sitting on a ramp in Farmingdale. Oh my, that, that must've made you feel really special that, Hey, you know, there, there's some kind of karma working here or something. Oh, it absolutely did. And I've had that happen a few times, which has been really funny. That's funny. So you've got your own special airplane. Maybe they'll let you sign it somewhere on the airplane. Yeah.

Jim's signature, Jim's Airplane. That's great. That's right. So when they sent you out for training, where did you go? How long did it take? What did you do? The training's done in Portsmouth. So went up to Portsmouth. First three days are HR benefits, basic orientation to the company. And then the following two weeks of that were all ground school, learning systems of the airplane, bringing in the safety department. The different departments come in and train.

speak with you about what they do and everything else very heavy systems review teaching how all the systems work and all and ends up with a written exam at the end of the second week you know we took a written exam everybody passed and moved on after that the following week they put us up in a program they call mission fit which is the best way i could explain it it's it's the ground-based simulator sort of like a cockpit procedure trainer that you might see at the airlines and

To teach you the avionics, to teach you procedures, checklists, flying instrument procedures, flying the plane, all that. And you spend a week doing that. Different scenarios, each scenario building on itself to make things a little more complex, to really get you at home inside the cockpit where everything is.

This way on the, I guess if you look at it on the fourth week, I went out to Dallas, actually, to flight safety in Dallas where they dry lease the PC-12 simulator. And that for me was important because they dry lease it and Plain Sense has their own instructors do the training in the simulator.

So you're learning their procedures, their flows, their profiles from a PlaneSense instructor, which was huge. And this way, going from MissionFit, you're familiar with the Honeywell system and doing instrument approaches. Now you can focus on flying the plane.

And it worked seamlessly. You know, it was, yeah, while you're going through training, you're like, how am I going to learn this? But you come out at the end and you start IOE, initial operating experience. I managed to start right after that, going right out to the airplane, flying with instructor pilots, right?

I'm considered a green pilot and basically flying with them on the line with passengers, just getting the systems down and getting comfortable in the new home and the new view. It is all the flying done with two pilots.

Yes. Never single pilot operation. Always done with two pilots, which is nice. I know the plane is certificated for single pilot operation, but PlaneSense has set up their ops spec and everything else specifically say the planes must be operated with two pilots. So the second in command is a required pilot on the airplane. Oh, interesting. Yeah, because the company and the FAA doesn't require an SIC. You could fly that plane single pilot, right? Right.

But their aspect, they said, hey, when we operate this airplane as part of their business setup, said we're going to operate it as a two-pilot crew. So that's how it's set up. So you're actually a required crew member. Okay. So that means you can actually log SIC time when you're flying? Yes. It's all SIC time, but yes, because I am a required crew member, I am able to log that. I got it. And how does that work? Do you alternate legs and can you log PIC time when you're the pilot flying? Oh,

All my time in the right seat will be SIC time. So it wouldn't be PIC time. The legs I fly generally are the empty legs. So we'll fly clients somewhere, then usually reposition the airplane elsewhere for the next client leg. So generally it's working out. I'm flying every other leg and the PIC, the captain is the one flying with the passengers on board.

And then I do the empty legs, which works out pretty well. It usually does work out to every other leg. I see. And so when the other pilot is flying, are you the person operating the radios? Yes, I'm the pilot monitoring, running the checklist, keeping an eye on him. I'm doing the radios. I'll come out beforehand. I do the pre-flight, program the flight plans into the computers, make sure the catering is all set and taking care of all that stuff, loading the bags in.

into the compartment in the back when they show up, and then on the outside, taking them all after them, you know, when they get off, and providing them with an outstanding customer service. I think your personality is just perfect for that. I'm sure you're very enthusiastic. I just love it. I really do. You know, I love flying. I'm doing what I love doing, and it just...

You know, whenever I see the people, I love seeing the people, you know, people like, oh, you know, how are they? They're wonderful people. You know, and it's, I just, I love meeting them, working with them. And I know I'm new there, but I have not had a bad experience. Yeah, that's great. I love it.

They're wonderful. So tell us about the schedule that you have days on, days off, and so on. And are there other alternative schedules that pilots can have if they're working for the company? They work seven on, seven off, which seems to be the norm, at least in the charter business. It's a great schedule. Usually they start Tuesdays, Wednesdays, or Thursdays. So I'm a Wednesday start. So for example, this coming Wednesday, I'll report to my base at JFK, and that's where my week will start.

whether it's flying a plane out of JFK, which happens occasionally, or they'll get me a lift to Teterboro or White Plains, or they'll airline me up to Boston or Denver, wherever they need me to meet my plane. For the next seven days, they basically control my schedule. So I'll get flights in my phone through EPIC. That'll list where I'm flying to. So for the next seven days, I'm there's.

But they take care of everything from the hotel, Uber or rental cars if we need them while we're staying over. Meals are taken care of for us. We order them, but they cover the meals while we're flying. And I'll basically fly until the following Tuesday. And then usually sometime Tuesday, they'll airline me or fly me home. And so I'm usually home by Tuesday night. Now, you said they take care of hotels and things like that. They actually book them for you so you don't have to do anything but show up?

Yeah. The funny thing about it, you know, me and my wife, of course, the last about this occasionally, I'm, I'm usually someone that needs things set in place. I like to know where I'm going. I like to plan things out and where am I going? Where am I staying? I'm just, you know, when we plan our vacations, I'm always like that. And they do such a good job at this that I'll watch my phone on my days off. And usually by Sunday, things will stop popping up. And

It doesn't matter to me. It's because I know the minute I get to JFK, everything else will be laid out for me.

And when we're flying after 4 p.m. in the afternoon, you'll get a little message up. You're staying at a holiday inn tonight. You have a rental call waiting for you. They do the crew meals for us. We order on Grubhub so I can sit there and say, well, we're going to Bedford, Massachusetts in two hours. So it'll be waiting for me there. They just make it so seamless with how it works that for somebody who's a planner and who, you know, who goes through everything, it does it. It's

For me, it doesn't even create any stress. They'll take care of it. And the actual operating of the plane, that's the beauty of the checklist and the profiles and everything else is it makes everything so seamless that you can focus on the differences of flying into an Eagle in Colorado versus Teterboro, New Jersey, or a grass strip in Maine somewhere. But they do it so well that it's

It's okay. I find it fine. Yeah, I think the nice thing about that is you can totally focus on the flying. You don't have any other care, it sounds like. And that's what you'd want from a pilot in a charter service, I think. Exactly, exactly. I can focus on what matters. The captain does a lot of the pre-flight planning, but my captains have all involved me in it when it comes to the weather, the planning, explaining. They're great at that too. The pilots I fly with,

explain everything to me, even though I'm doing my own thing, they'll explain to me why we're using this altitude and they start showing you why and everything else. It's such a team effort.

But you're right. It's all the outside stuff is taken care of. I can focus on doing my job and flying the plane and keeping things safe and making sure our passengers at the end of the day, you know, our clients are happy. I love it. That sounds like a great environment to be in. So let's talk about a typical week. Where are some of the places you go and some of the things that you've done and, you know, unusual things. Tell us all about that portion of the week.

Well, this past rotation, I had a bucket list item we got to. And I actually had my schedule written down here. I started on a Wednesday. So Wednesday morning, they flew me down to Charleston on JetBlue and overnighted there. My first flight was on Thursday. And we flew up to Youngstown, Ohio, came down to Orlando Executive, and then did a short hop over to Orlando International. And then we ended the day there. Following day, I had a long leg, flew from Orlando up to Bangor, Maine.

and Bangor back to Bedford, Massachusetts. Then we overnighted in Teterboro, which is a blast to fly in. Tell us about that. Why is that a blast to fly in? Teterboro, it's a busy airport. It's nestled in underneath Newark Airport. So if you ever look at the arrival or departure procedures out of Teterboro, you have a lot of level off the mandatory altitudes because Newark, a lot of times, is landing right over you.

Also a lot of jets flying in there. So we'll be flying in and they'll be like, God, maintain 170, 180 to as long as you can sometimes.

So you're going in fast. It's a busy airport and a very complicated airspace. But again, the plane makes it so easy to do. That following day, we spent a lot of time up in the Northeast. We flew to Marshfield, Massachusetts, a nice little airport on the coast. We went to Newport, Rhode Island, and then we wound up down in Charleston, South Carolina. But then the following day was my bucket list. I went from Charleston to Ocean Reef.

down in South Miami. If you go onto YouTube and you Google Ocean Reef, it's a single strip on a golf course. It's a very exclusive club, but literally on the left side off the wingtips are trees lining a golf course and maybe 10 feet off your right wingtip are the Gulf Streams and the Citation Jets all backed into their spots along the right side of the runway.

It's a beautiful airport, but the thing that caught me was that sensation of speed when you're landing. You know, when you come into most airports, there's that nice grassy area on each side, which makes things pass slowly. And coming into that airport and landing when things were so close, the sensation of speed was alarming. But again, we flew the profile, speeds were right on, but it was so much fun to fly in there.

And then we flew out to Chattanooga, and then I ended my rotation on Tuesday in Richmond. And then they flew me home from Richmond. Okay. So typical week. Talk about some of the outliers, some of the things that have been very different from typical in terms of, you know, either grass strips or long trips or mountain airports. Talk about some of those.

We had one flight. We flew to a private ranch in Texas, which wasn't on any charts, any maps. You plug in a latitude and a longitude. Air traffic control is asking you, a lot of times you can file to an airport close by. And then as long as it's VFR, you'll do that second leg just visually. And they're like, you're on an approach to this airport. And we're like, well, we're not really going there. And he happened to, we were like going to an airport about three miles to the west of there. He's

It's like, oh, okay, we saw you flying in there. But it looked like a road in the middle of the desert. But they had a ranch there that we flew them into. And they were picked up in a really cool what they call a quail rig where they do quail hunting from. It was fascinating. And you just sit there and you look around. You're in the middle of nowhere, just desert and brush all around. That was probably my most unique experience so far.

I've been down to the Caribbean, to a few short fields down there, flew into Eagle, Colorado, where when we left in the summer, we had to do a visual climb over the airport to get out. So doing a lot of flying that you read about when you're studying instrument procedures on your rating, we're actually doing visual climbs over airports and all that stuff. So in a short period of time, it's been a thrilling experience.

And you had mentioned to me when we talked a while ago that a lot of the trips are in the Northeast, but it changes a little bit seasonally, I guess. Talk about how the trips change a little bit seasonally and talk about your longest trip. Sure. When I started in May, I started flying the line in July. So in the middle of the summer, the Northeast is very busy. I was caught up in what they call the Northeast vortex.

where you're doing a lot of short flights, 45 minutes to an hour flight, you know, from Bedford to Nantucket, Nantucket to Newport, Newport up to Bangor. So it's a lot of short, quick flights. And that was my first week of...

IOE, initial operating experience on the line. And on top of that, the weather that week was horrible. It was, you know, instrument conditions. So not only was I acclimating to the PC-12, and again, like I say, I was with fantastic people, but I'm flying instrument approaches down to minimums.

for a lot of these approaches. So it was, it was intense. It was a lot, but the summer months, yeah, we tend to be busy in the Northeast, flying people back and around to the Northeast, different locations. Cape Cod is very popular, you know, Nantucket, Martha's Vineyard, Block Island, that area. For me as the,

Season went on when I got into later into August, September, and this might be because I'm JFK based. It's so easy to send me places in, I believe it was early September. I wound up going out to the Rockies and flying out there and,

Out there in, when I was in the Northeast, I was flying four, maybe five legs a day, you know, busy or short hops. When I went out West, I was flying longer legs, um, legs that were maybe one and a half, two, three hours long, maybe coming back to like Minneapolis or, you know, Minnesota, that area, but then going back out to Aspen and Colorado Springs. So that the segments tend to be longer with less legs, um,

This past rotation I had, I had a lot of long legs. We flew down to Orlando from Youngstown, but then we had the Orlando to Bangor flight, which was actually looking at that one. That one was just under five hours long. So now the tendency seems to be I'm getting farther south now as we're into the winter, getting more down to Florida. Of course, I'm in Florida when my son's visiting us in New York.

But now the tendency is more down towards Florida or into the Caribbean, the warmer zones or the ski resorts. But I haven't gotten those trips yet. And you mentioned a grass strip. Was that the ranch or where have you been into grass strips? I haven't landed in a grass strip yet. There is one in Maine. I think it's called Plum Island or something that I've seen. I have a few pilots that have landed on grass trips. Most of us are waiting for that opportunity. But there are a few out there. They do go out there. They assess them and make sure, obviously, that they're safe.

you know, to go into, but there are a handful out there, but that's still on the bucket list. Good. Good to have a list. Oh yeah. So as you look ahead, what are the possible growth paths for you or for other pilots at Plane Sense? Where do you go from what you're doing right now? Well, where I'm now, I'm coming up on about 400 hours now flying in the 12 as a second in command. When I feel I'm ready, and that's the nice thing about it, they don't pressure you at all. When I feel that I'm ready, I'm

I can request an evaluation for captain upgrade. So obviously my next step is to becoming a captain on the PC-12.

Once I'm a captain on the 12th, for me, I liked instructing. I like being a CFI and a double I. They definitely like candidates that apply to them that are CFIs and double Is. That's a definite plus if you apply to them. So I'd like to go into the training department, actually. Become a ground instructor, an instructor pilot, maybe a sim instructor. Because, I mean, I love teaching. I really do. So I can go that route as well.

You know, obviously you have chief pilot positions, things like that. Or I can work my way up into the right seat on the 24 and then, you know, flip over to the left side in the 24. So, you know, pilot wise, I have all those routes that I can take, which is what I was looking for when

When I decided to make this route, I wanted to make sure I was going to a company where I could grow, not even just as a pilot, but I could go into training or some avenues related to flying as well. And they ticked off all the boxes. So tell us what a green captain is and what kind of restrictions you would have if you become a green captain someday.

Well, as a green pilot, it's not my color from flying through turbulence or stuff like that. Basically, they label me a green pilot for like the first hundred hours or so when I'm flying as a first officer, as a green FO, for like the first hundred hours. In that case, I can only fly with higher time, higher experienced captains. And there are certain legs that we will fly, won't fly, things along that lines. But basically...

As a first off, so I'll be paired with somebody who's much more experienced to, if you will, accommodate my lack of experience as I'm building it.

I'm not a PIC yet, but on the PIC captain side, obviously they can't be green PIC, wouldn't be paired with a green first officer. The minimums are raised on a bit on like instrument approaches, what they can fly and, you know, certain airports they might not be able to go into. So restrictions like that. So they're very careful safety wise to make sure that inexperienced crews are paired together. And what kind of medical do you need for the various jobs at Plain Sense?

Right now, it's a second-class medical, and that's all the way up until I believe you become a captain on the 24. So it's a second-class medical for me. I'll work it all the way up. So it basically kept what I had so far, which was nice as well. And they pay for the medical, too. When I just renewed mine, they cover the expenses for that. Yeah. And it sounds like you're very interested in staying with

plain sense for the long run. And yet I would imagine a number of folks, particularly the younger pilots are probably looking to do other things. What does that look like for them? What do you hear and see with, with them? With them? It's, and you're right. It's a good mix inside. There are a lot of people I've come across like me plan on staying that like the quality of life and a happy year, but,

But in all fairness, too, we have a lot of the younger guys, even some of the older guys that whether it's chasing the money and they want to go to another corporate job or they're just building the time to go to, you know, United Delta or stuff like that. They're there, too. And Plain Sense is OK with they understand that and they're supportive of that. You know, flying with them. They've all said the same thing to me. The ones that want to go and fly for the airlines, they say, you know.

I want to go for the money. I'm young. Look at the money I can make working there. And that's a fair thing to say. But they say, I'm not leaving because I'm unhappy here. I'm leaving because they're going for the money or they always wanted to fly jets. So it's not awkward. It's not uncomfortable. The company understands that. But they also have a very high retention rate as well of people like myself and other captains who are younger than me that just the quality of life and the culture here

I don't think you can put a financial number on that. But for me, that's something I really appreciate and why at this point, I don't see myself going anywhere else. Sounds like you're living the life and having a great time there. If someone is listening and going, oh boy, what Jim is doing is just what I want to be doing. How would you suggest they go about getting in touch with Plain Sense? Tell us about the hiring. What's that like?

Right now, they stopped hiring for the winter. So they're looking to open up the application window again at the end of the first quarter. So I think March, April, they're looking to reopen it up. They're very popular. They're very much in demand. I think they had something like 3,000 active applications on hand at the end of the year, which again, made me so thankful that I found my way in.

So you would go to plain sense.com backslash careers and just monitor that when they open the window. But in the meantime, if anybody was talking to me, I would absolutely be following them on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, all those places, because that's a great way to learn about what they do, where they fly, what the business is about and start making those connections and, and

even if you're a low time pilot, even if you just have your private, I understand, you know, the financial responsibilities to get to that point. But if, if you can just, just plug through, just keep going and, you know, five, 600 hours, reach out to them, make the connections, no matter where you go, it's all about connections. And when I say connections, I'm not saying, I know you, Max. So I got an in it's,

Being able to relate with people, you know, communicate and talk with people. What I famously call it is old school techniques. Going back to the face-to-face, you know, emails are great. But when I did my technical interview and I had the chief, I think it was one of the chief pilots across from me on there. First thing he said was, he said, I noticed here you've updated your application at least six times. I love interviewing people that I know want to work here.

So when you, you know, it's not a matter of just throwing in an application and waiting. Update it, keep it fresh, keep it, you know, keep it current and up to date because they see that.

And they want to, they want to interview and they want to see people that are interested in working there. Did you ever get a sense that part of the interview process is just to find out, hey, is this the kind of person that our pilots would enjoy sharing a cockpit with? Or is this the kind of person where, oh my gosh, they're just going to be, you know, annoyed the whole day that they're sitting next to that person. It's such an intangible, but it has to be, you know, it's, yeah, you're sitting in a plane, you know, hey, the other day I was sitting in a plane almost, you

I love flying in a plane with shoulders, no touch. But yeah, you're in a close, confined area for extended periods of time. And it's very important that the two of you get along. And of course there is that. Is this person friendly, outgoing? Can he communicate well? Those are the things, yeah, they're intangible, but sure, you do want to see that.

Which is why I say making those connections, going to Sun and Fun and just not going for I want to be interviewed, but just to meet people and talk with them and get that face-to-face time.

go such a long way. And if somebody were interested in chartering a PC-12 or a PC-24 from Plain Sense, how would they go about doing that? Where would you send them? Sure. If they wanted to do like a 135 charter with Plain Sense, they do that under a separate name, which is called Cobalt Air, C-O-B-A-L-T.

And they handle the 135 part of it. So like I said earlier, I think, you know, the commitment of the PC-12s and 24s are to the owners, but there is, you know, downtime with those. And so there is charter availability as well, but it's a little bit limited, but they do absolutely do that. And that's who you would contact.

Well, Jim, sounds like you are living your dream. You look so happy, so enthusiastic. I'm really happy for you. Thanks so much for sharing with everyone today just what your life is like right now. Oh, no, I still, Leo, I can't believe I'm doing what I'm doing, where I am, the plane that I'm flying and everything else. I mean, it's...

I couldn't picture being anywhere else. And I am just so happy that things worked out the way they did. And, you know, it's the one thing with them is they still have that small company feel to it. It's, you know, I feel like when I go up to Portsmouth, even though I don't see them a lot, I feel like I'm working with family. And it's, you know, it's I can't put a number on that. I'm just so.

That's nice. And on your weeks off, are you still teaching on the side? I haven't for a while. I'm going back to that now. I'm still working on doing stuff over pilot proficiency. I'm doing simulator training with that. I haven't gotten back into a piston plane yet. I'm sure it will come, but I'll admit I've gotten spoiled by the 12. But I am still doing that. And I'd like to go into helping people get to where I'm at.

But I like doing the simulator training. So I'm still actively training as well. Sure. And I know you've also done ground instruction as well over FaceTime or Zoom and things like that. How would someone get in contact with you personally if they were interested in doing some training with you in Long Island? Yeah, because I'm on Long Island based out of Farmingdale. I have on Facebook...

My Facebook page is ground.9, ground point the word and then the number nine. You can message me on that. I had gotten away from that a little bit when I started training because 100% went to getting into here, but I'm going back to that now. So if anybody needs to get in touch with me, they can go there, reach out to me, and I'm happy to do what I can. Jim, thanks so much for joining us here today. Oh, it's been my pleasure, Max. Thanks for having me. All right.

And my thanks to Jim Goldfuss for joining us here today. If you'd like to get in touch with him, go out to Facebook and search for Ground Point and the number 9.

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Coming down. Till your side. Baby sliding upside down. You can all.