IFH 794: The Art of Film Marketing: How to Make Your Movie Impossible to Ignore with Danielle Raiz
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You are listening to the IFH Podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork.com. Welcome to the Indie Film Hustle Podcast, episode number 794. Your dream doesn't have an expiration date. Take a deep breath and try again. K.T. Witton.

Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood, it's the Indie Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of the film biz. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Hustle Podcast. I am your humble host, Alex Ferrari. Today's show is sponsored by Rise of the Filmtrepreneur, how to turn your independent film into a profitable business.

It's harder today than ever before for independent filmmakers to make money with their films. From predatory film distributors ripping them off to huckster film aggregators who prey upon them, the odds are stacked against the indie filmmaker. The old distribution model of making money with your film is broken and there needs to be a change.

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If you want to order it, just head over to www.FilmBizBook.com. That's FilmBizBook.com. Enjoy today's episode with guest host, Dave Bullis. So on this episode of the podcast, again, we're going to be talking about marketing, short films being used as actual commercials, and so much more as we talk all about this wonderful, wonderful world of filmmaking and video. We also talk about a lot of really cool projects as well.

with guests?

Danielle Riaz. So I started my career in consumer media startups. So I've always been about creating tools for creatives and for all sorts of creatives from, you know, better ways to show people photography online and video online and musicians and stuff like that. And I came to Wix because we saw that there's a huge user base of video creators that didn't have the perfect tools for their needs.

And at Wix, we're all about empowering users, and you know different users have different needs. So we came to this project in order to help video creators grow their business, knowing that for a video creator, their content is their business. So it's all about better showcase, better distribution options, stuff like that. So...

So, Danielle, when you're, you know, obviously you see a ton of different things, you know, with your position. You see a ton of different filmmakers. You see a ton of different videos. You know, what are, can you think of any off the top of your head right now that have just been like absolutely like astounding and you're, you know, because, you know, everything is digital now. We have so many tools at our disposal. It's almost overwhelming at times.

And sometimes you see projects that just come out of left field and they're just amazing. Have you run into any that you could think of off the top of your head during your course at Wix? Wix website or in general? Just in general.

So in general, I think that it's a really exciting time to be a video creator because there are a lot of new ways now to create content, which are really interesting. I see, for example, our users, you know, experimenting with 360 videos and VR. It's really a whole new way to look at how you create content and how people engage with it. Also, if you look at the platforms that people are using, you know, Facebook, et cetera, so you get a lot of, like, live engagement content.

So it's really interesting to see how creators evolve, how they create content in terms of how this landscape is changing over time. So this is one thing that I find really interesting. And I also think that there are a lot of tools in the last couple of years that are about giving video creators the power to control their careers.

So up until now, you had a few video services and you kind of had to play by their rules. And now that you have all the power because everyone's chasing after all the great video creators out there, you can actually decide, you can actually control the way that you're displayed and the way that you're monetizing your content and you have so many platforms to choose from, which is amazing. So I think these are really exciting times.

Yeah, and you mentioned something that I usually talk about on this show, and that is you have to sort of create your own sort of what I call a stake in the ground. And basically what that is, is, you know, you have to get a website and that is your stake. So in the ground and, you know, mine is DaveBullis.com.

And basically that way, when you're actually out there and you're making stuff, you can upload it to a website. And this is I think is key because now I don't know, it's just maybe if it's just me. But whenever someone says who does creative work or artistic work and they say they don't have a website, I kind of go, really? Like, you know what I mean? It just it seems like it should be second nature at this point.

Completely. So I think that for visual artists, you know, your site is really your business card. And when people talk to you, they'll just go to Google, they'll Google your name, and they need to find like a professional, beautiful online presence because it actually reflects on how they look at your work.

So you really want to have control on how this is displayed. And Wix, being Wix, we're really about giving you all the tools so you don't have to think about how to create your website or how to design it. We're just giving you everything

giving you all the tools that you need so you can just focus on your content and just put it, you know, in a beautiful template and customize the entire thing and make it your own. So when people go to your site, you know, they see your site and your logo and your brand and, you know, it's all you. And it doesn't really matter where the content is coming from.

Yeah, that's true. And especially now with video becoming what it is so important in marketing and advertising, you know, I mean, you know, for instance, you go into a lot of these video sites and, you know, like, you know, Hulu, Vudu, you know, YouTube. And you see the what you see those ads before the video and they're short films. They're no longer just like people, you know, pitching you things. They're a literal short film, you know, and the product is what's being marketed. You know what I mean?

Definitely. Because businesses started realizing that video is really the most engaging way to connect people to their brand and to showcase their products. So they're actually, as you said, they're becoming like little films that are incredible. You've seen that, for example, I think the big fashion houses now, they release to YouTube such incredible clips and short films that are all about showcasing a certain dress that they're selling or a certain collection. But it's like...

It's like a film production, for sure. So this is totally something that is interesting. So, Danielle, you've had a few filmmakers come to you and come to Wix in general, and you sort of helped them along. I know in talking with Vivian, she mentioned you have two, An Evening with Bukowski and Slate Goods NYC.

And, you know, some of these, you know, different projects, you know, when they come to you, what are some of the things that you sort of cover when you're talking to them? Is there any sort of like, do you have like a sort of like a template, a check sheet that you go through? Or is it sort of you base it upon every different filmmaker for when they're going to, you know, obviously when they're coming to you with advice for video and for websites, etc.?

Yeah, so the thing about Slate and the two examples that you gave, Slate Goods and the evening with Bukowski are two incredible, incredible examples of the platform. The thing is we didn't reach out to them until after they actually created their website because the thing is it's such a do-it-yourself platform. They didn't really need any help from us or any guidance for us and they created it

two beautiful showcases. So Slate New York, they're doing, they're selling Snickers and what they're working with nonprofits. So they use video on their website to connect people to the nonprofits that they work with to tell their stories, which really helps business. And you know, it's not like the typical video creator, but it's someone that realized that video helps you sell. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

and it helped connect people to your brand. And An Evening with Bokowski just became one of my favorite stories because the thing about that movie, it's a documentary film that actually premiered in Venice Festival, Venice Film Festival last year, and then in Slamdance and several other festivals. And the thing is that the director...

actually found a bunch of tapes of his mom, who was a journalist, I don't know how many decades ago, interviewing Charles Bukowski, the writer. And it was so good, he decided to make a movie out of it. And he created this amazing documentary, and then he creates a website for it,

And on the website, you know, you see, you can watch the trailer, you can see all the festivals that it showcased in, and then you can, you know, contact him, and you have the press area and everything. So when you go there, you actually, you know, you hear the entire story behind the film, and it's fascinating. So these are actually two great examples, you know, different uses for people who are either filmmakers or not filmmakers at all, realizing the power of video.

So then sort of take that a step further, Danielle. If you were to have somebody sort of come to you then, a filmmaker, and he or she wanted to put their films, use Wix to build a site, put some videos up, what advice would you give them

You know, obviously, because you mentioned you got to talk to the two filmmakers after their movies came out. But, you know, but if we if you had the opportunity to talk to people before those movies come out, you know, what would be some of the advice that you would give them?

So I think the first thing I would say is that creating movies and videos these days is not like a one-way thing. So you have to engage with your viewers and you have to do it even before you start filming. So you build your own website, you create a teaser, you put whatever content you have there, you start talking to your fans and engaging with them, you share behind the scenes and updates and teasers, and you really create a buzz about your film before it's even out there.

And then once it's out there, so you revamp your website a little bit and you make sure that the movie is available, you know, either for sale or even just a trailer if you want to do the festival run. But just keep users, like keep your viewers engaged all the time. This is something that's really, really critical in my eyes. And then, you know, if you add to it like a director statement and interviews with your cast and exclusive content, then people really have like...

they get a lot of your website. They really connect to your vision. They understand why you did what you did and what you're trying to say. And I think this is, you know, just watching a video without all that context, you know, it's...

not as powerful as it can be. And the fact that you can engage with your fans in such a way, the fact that you can even send them updates and even live stream from the set. Use whatever you have at the moment. You don't have to have the entire film ready in order to start working. You have to start working on it a lot before it's done.

Yeah, and that's something I tell crowd funders too as well is, you know, you have to sort of build that audience before you launch your crowd funding campaign. Because a lot of times, you know, they'll launch and then they'll try to find their crowd that way. But you know what I mean? And then they sort of are trying to, they're sort of putting the cart before the horse instead of actually saying, let's build up an audience now.

And then when we launch this thing, we'll be able to actually have an audience and we'll actually have an audience that we can actually talk to once we launch this crowdfunding campaign. And it's the same way with a movie. You know, you want to build up an audience. And then by the time the movie comes out, you already sort of you already have that audience who said, hey, we've seen, you know, we've seen a poster, we've seen the trailer, and now we actually want to see the whole movie.

Definitely. I totally agree with you on that. And I have to say that, for example, having a website for crowdfunders is really like it's even essential because it helps you appear a lot more professional. You know, you're not just another Kickstarter project. You have your own site with all the information there with everything that you need. And we have actually had some users like that.

Also, about creating a buzz before, so one example that I can recall is a user that had a horror comedy for Valentine's Day. So what he did was he sent out just a lot of teasers in social media. And by the way, social media, I'm sure you talk about it in your podcast all the time, how critical social media is for filmmakers.

but he had a lot of social media buzz before the movie was out that, you know, it's going to be out in Valentine's Day. In Valentine's Day, it's going to be, you know, free to watch entire Valentine's Day, and then it's going to be paid for view. So he created a lot of buzz, and he released it on Valentine's Day. Then it just started selling the next day, and all that buzz really, really helped.

So, you know, he got depressed and he got all the buzz on social media and whatever. So it was a really cool story. Yeah, you know, just to sort of piggyback on that story, Danielle, you know, one time I actually made a short film. It was one of those, you know, weekend film competitions where you have to make a film very, very quickly. And what I did was I actually used Wix to make a –

I wanted to make just a simple one page website. I didn't want anything fancy and I was like, I need something quick because I don't want to sit here and, and you know, do all this other stuff. So I actually used Wix and I just made this one sheet of a, Oh sorry, one page. And it just telling people what the movie is and a couple of little things here and there. And then the funniest thing was I actually just put like at the bottom, like everything, like here's where we're going to be. And,

And people actually responded to that just at one page. And what they said, Danielle, they said, hey, we didn't have anywhere else to go. There was nowhere else to click on. There wasn't all these different tabs at the top. They said it was just very simple and self-contained. And they said it seemed to get the point across

a little better than if I had a different bunch of tabs at the top. I just remembered that. I've always taken that with me over the years because whenever I'm thinking about making a different website or whatever, I'm always thinking I shouldn't make it too busy to give people too many options. You know what I mean? I don't want to have a page where it's like, watch this and then this and then that. You know what I mean? I want to make it so it's all sort of a path, a linear path, if you know what I'm trying to say.

So take them through the journey. It makes a lot of sense. You know, you put what's most, you put, for example, your most recent video on the top. You make sure they watch a recent thing. And you then add some, you know, either tabs or below the fold or whatever with additional content for those who are interested in more. And you can connect between them and you can let them know categories and tag and keep people moving throughout the journey of your creation. It makes a lot of sense.

So as we sort of talk about content creation, it seems like everyone's getting into that now. I mean, all these different platforms are looking towards creating different content and stuff like that. And I wonder if it ever – I mean, I know this is obviously – this is kind of speculation, but I would always wonder if different websites –

would be entertaining that even more. Websites we don't even think about. You know what I mean? Because if you look, the latest person I heard getting into original content is Vudu, and that's owned by Walmart. So you got Vudu, you got Amazon, you got Netflix. YouTube, of course, does their thing. And as I look out into the landscape, I wonder what other websites and companies are going to start creating their own original content with shows that

And some of which, like we were discussing earlier, are going to just be commercials for things that are coming out. You know what I mean? Like, you know, maybe, you know, like different companies can focus on, you know, a new item or coming out. For instance, I knew a guy, he actually made a Star Wars short film called

Sounds very cool, actually. I'd love to see that one.

Yes, there are a lot of services. And the thing is, when you go to each of these services, you usually need to play by their rules. But then if you put everything on your own domain, so basically we have the ability to showcase all the videos in one place. So for example, what you're talking about right now,

Like, you could create some, you know, specific kind of content for Facebook, and then you could do something for YouTube or for Vimeo. And, you know, each platform has their own, you know, their own style and their own, you know, your intent of, like, why you're doing what you're doing. You go to YouTube for the viral, and you go to Vimeo because there's an amazing creators community, and then you do, like, live and viral and, you know,

things on Facebook. And then when you have all that content everywhere, it's kind of nice to have your own domain where you can showcase they're all in one place.

This is one thing that we put a lot of emphasis on. We know that creators just have their content running around everywhere and it's really hard to keep track. It looks different everywhere and you keep using each of these platforms for each in their own advantage but then you want on your own site to have the ability to control everything and to just say, "Okay, this is all the things I created throughout all the platforms and everything but this is mine."

So this is one thing that we put a lot of emphasis on and, you know, make it an easy to grab your videos from everywhere and just say, okay, this is... We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show. This is all Dave's work, you know, no matter where it's from, this is all Dave's work.

Yeah, and that's very true. And speaking of putting everything in a portfolio, I wanted to ask, what advice would you give about SEO? Because, Danielle, everyone talks now about if everyone does have a website or if everyone does have a channel, how do people actually find it other than word of mouth? So obviously because you've seen all these different things, what advice would you have for...

for somebody to sort of make sure that their SEO, their search engine optimization is actually locked down. And so that way people can actually, if they are searching for maybe something like, if they're searching for basketball or ping pong tables or something like that, that they can actually find your videos.

So actually, SEO is something that Wix put a lot of emphasis on. So we actually have tools that automate this entire process for you and help you make this the best you can find. Because as we said in the beginning, when people will want to look things up, they'll just go to Google and then they just go there and say, okay, I'll probably – whatever comes up on the first page, this is what probably they'll click.

I think the most important thing is just to make sure that you have a lot of information on everything that you add on your site. So you want to fill in all the details of everything that you do. For example, if you're a filmmaker and you have your crew and your cast and the description and everything, you want everything written down.

Because basically Google just looks for good, solid content. And if it's good, solid content, what you have there and the favorite videos, so that's even better. So you should be fine. And also, you know, there are a lot of tools to optimize your SEO, which I think everyone should definitely use because this is something critical these days.

Yeah, it's, you know, as we talk about on this podcast, you know, it's a war of eyeballs and ears now. Because, you know, everyone, you know, the playing field has evened out a lot. You know, obviously, you know, hard work and talent still count. But, you know, if everyone has a camera, you know, you have to be, you have to especially be able to stand out from the pack. Definitely. Yeah.

So, you know, as we sort of, you know, go on with this conversation, Danielle, I wanted to ask, you know, when you're putting together a website, you know, what are some of the things that you usually tell people to make sure you focus on? I mean, is there anything, you know, beyond, you know, obviously, since we're talking a lot about video, is there anything sort of beyond video that you tell filmmakers, you know, you make sure to put this on your site so it looks, you know, it looks and feels and it is a complete site?

Yeah, so for filmmakers, what I would say besides, you know, having all your content there with all, you know, the additional info and everything is connect all the social channels that you have. You're probably using, you know, Facebook, Snapchat, whatever. You want to use them all. You want to show all the buzz around your films and all the activity around it.

You want to share updates and behind the scenes and stuff. I probably do this in like a production blog, which could be great for filmmakers, you know, to get people engaged with the movie. And then always have a press section. You know, make it easy. You want to get coverage for your film, even if it's, you know, not yet, like not yet in production, but you want to get some coverage. You want to get some buzz. Make it really easy for media to follow.

find what they're looking for. So have like a proper press section with all the media they need with your contact info. Make it easy for them to help you, to help you get the coverage you want. Same goes for screenings. There are so many apps and stuff. If you're already out there, just have all your laurels out and have all your screening dates and everything so people know where to find you. So I think that's the most important thing.

You know, I wanted to ask too, Danielle, you know, I don't know if the answer to this question. So I figured I'd ask you, are forums still a thing? You remember forums like, you know, back in the day, you know, where people would actually have, you know, you know, where they could post different, you know, things. I mean, I,

I don't even know if it's a thing anymore, but is it? Have you seen filmmakers or even other users actually try to put forums into the website and maybe have any sort of engagement with it?

So yes, definitely. The thing about forums is that people a lot of times, you know, forums is just another way to create a community around something. If you're interesting enough or you're doing something that's interesting to users enough, they'll come and they'll read and they'll engage and they'll also want to comment, which is, you know, makes perfect sense. So I do think forums are definitely something that you should have if you want ongoing engagement.

But it needs to be interesting enough. So I would probably create a forum around something very specific. For example, your Star Wars example. So Star Wars fans are hysterical. And if you have a forum that's all about Star Wars fans and creating media around it and things, that would totally engage viewers coming to your site, help them stay longer and get them really connected to what you do. So it's just a strong way to create a community. Yeah.

And that's a good point because I see – I haven't been on forums in a while, and I've always wondered if that was still a viable option. Because, again, like we were just saying, there's so many options out there now. And you have so many different things to choose from. It's hard to sometimes –

I wonder, you know, what do you mean, if that tool that you've used before is still going to be, you know, a good option, if you know what I'm trying to say. So it's, you know, but, you know, as you sort of bring this back to video...

Even with video, some of the tools that I've used in the past, you can use some of them still and other ones, it's just like you can't do it anymore. For instance, I had a mini DV cam that if I used it now, I feel like I'm kind of shooting myself in the foot because I'm giving myself an extra step because you have to take the DV tape out of the camera

You have to digitize the footage so you can start editing it in something like Premiere or Advid. And it's just, you start to say, wait a minute, why don't I just shoot digital to begin with and eliminate this whole process? You know what I mean? It's just how things change so rapidly in the world we live in now. Definitely. Definitely, Anna. Sorry? Oh, I'm sorry, Danielle. I didn't mean to interrupt you. I'm sorry.

No, I'm with you. Awesome. So, you know, and that's something I also wanted to ask, too, is, you know, where do you see, you know, Wix going in the next couple of years in terms of, you know, video and everything like that? You know, with everything sort of, you know, we talked about all different things. You know, is there any place that you can see Wix going?

Well, I'll tell you the thing. We're here to empower video creators, okay? So as this industry evolves and as the technologies change, so we're going to evolve with that. And we want to provide easy access to all the tools you're already using. We want to help you, as we said, build a community around your content. So we're always going to find the best and most innovative way to do that.

And I think that this landscape of, you know, currently we're talking about, you know, showcasing and distributing your content, which is something that has changed dramatically in the last couple of years. And if you look now, then you'll see that, for example, on demand, which is something that, you know, talked to me like 10 years ago, I wouldn't,

believe that someone would pay for video on demand and today it's like it's the most obvious thing that you can you know sell your content directly to fans you can sell you know you can sell your skills you can sell tutorials you can do so many things with it so this is something that we could never imagine and now this is so common and this landscape keeps changing so we're just gonna we just plan to change with it

Yeah, and like we were just saying, you know, everything changes so rapidly now. And you have to sort of, you know, be ahead of the curve. And, you know, again, that's where I go back to with, you know, content creation and, you know, being able to be able to get your stuff out there to your fans directly. Because, you know, that's what has happened with technology. You know, over the past even, let's just say 10 years, you know, you've cut out the whole middleman.

And now you're selling directly to your fans. You can make a whole, you know, a website and you can talk directly to people. And once those people find your website, you can start, you know, engaging with them and, you know, hopefully make a fan for life. And then, you know, that's something, you know, I always wonder where the next iteration is going to be. But, you know, that's what I mean by, you know, how everything has changed is, you know,

maybe it'll be completely different than what we think it'll be or maybe it'll you know versus it you know changing in increments if you know if you know what I mean yeah I think I'm pretty sure you know I'm pretty sure that things are going to change on like different like levels so the technology is changing dramatically all the time and then the engagement levels that you have are changing all the time so it also it also affects the content that you're creating so

So suddenly, you know, you create like a live stream and you talk to people directly or you create like a 360 movie and you make your viewers, you know, they can select their next scene or where they're going with it. So there are so many things that are changing at once. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

It's going to be very interesting to see where creators take this because I think the power is really in the creators' hands on how they're going to take these amazing technologies and these amazing opportunities and create groundbreaking experiences.

It's all about creating an experience, not just like, you know, once, many years ago, you would sit in the cinema, just watch a film and just go out, and now it's like a whole experience you're getting into, and everything is getting a lot more interactive. So as time goes, it's going to be really interesting to see what creators do with it, and I think that they just, like, nobody wants to decide where this is going.

You can have the most amazing technology out there, but if you don't get creators to create amazing things with it, amazing experiences with it, it's not going to work. That is a fantastic point, Danielle. That is absolutely fantastic. You know, Danielle, we've been talking for about 30 minutes, give or take. You know, just in closing, is there anything that we haven't got a chance to discuss or that you want to discuss now or maybe even something you wanted to sort of say to put a period at the end of this whole conversation? Um...

Listen, if we're talking about Wix in general or Wix videos specifically, the thing to remember is that we always have creators in mind. It's always about giving people the ability to create.

have complete control over how to continue to play like you worked so hard you know when you're late toward some whatever you should be the one to decide how it's made where late how it is monetize you should be able to sell directly if you want to not rely on any other service should be able to do it on your own domain like it's all about the you know providing control and giving the given power back i think

And this is something that we're doing. So we're a fairly new service at the moment, and we keep evolving this and improving this over time. And I think we have amazing things coming soon that I'm not even able to discuss, but I'm sure you will follow up after this. And I'm sure we'll keep talking. And it's been a pleasure. And obviously, we're definitely going to keep talking, Danielle. And I just wanted to say, I'm sorry, one last question was, where can people find you out online?

So you can find us at Wix.com. Basically, you have a whole section for video creators with a lot of beautiful, stunning film templates and templates for video creators. And then you have the Wix video app within the site where you can have all the amazing features we talked about. And do you have any personal Twitter or anything you want to give out, Danielle? Not really. I'm a LinkedIn kind of girl. By the way, I shot you a LinkedIn friend request.

I'm great. So feel free to decline that at any time. No, I'm just kidding around. But, you know, I'm really good. I just, I made sure to, I looked, I was looking for if you had any social media, like a Twitter or anything. And LinkedIn came up and I was like, oh, there she is. I'll send her a connection request. I'm all about giving other people the stage, you know. I'm providing the tools, giving other people the stage.

I'm a backstage girl. Well, Danielle, I want to say thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for having me, Dave. You're very welcome. Take care, Danielle. Bye.

I want to thank Dave so much for doing such a great job on this episode. If you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, head over to the show notes at indiefilmhustle.com forward slash 794. And if you haven't already, please head over to filmmakingpodcast.com, subscribe, and leave a good review for the show. It really helps us out a lot, guys. Thank you again so much for listening, guys. As always, keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive. Stay safe out there, and I'll talk to you soon.

Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at IndieFilmHustle.com. That's I-N-D-I-E-F-I-L-M-H-U-S-T-L-E.com.