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cover of episode Desiree Goldey - Why Organizational Confusion Fails Employees

Desiree Goldey - Why Organizational Confusion Fails Employees

2025/5/8
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David Teretsky
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Desiree Goldey
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Desiree Goldey: 我在不同组织工作多年,发现HR和人才部门之间存在大量沟通不畅的问题。我认为这两个部门的目标应该保持一致,但实际情况并非如此。这种脱节会导致高离职率、员工敬业度下降、期望与薪酬不符等问题。 我们应该更深入地探讨公司文化,明确公司愿景、使命和价值观,并将其转化为实际操作目标。许多公司只是在网站上展示这些内容,却没有将其转化为实际行动,导致目标错位。 在招聘过程中,这种脱节会导致招聘时间延长,候选人体验不佳,以及招聘过程中出现信息混乱和目标变更。当招聘过程中出现重大变动(例如工作地点变更)时,需要重新向候选人推销职位,并强调其他方面,例如职业发展机会。 由于求职者数量增加,招聘经理变得更加挑剔,这可能会导致错过一些优秀的候选人。AI筛选工具也可能导致招聘人员错过一些优秀的候选人,因为大量的申请会让AI难以有效筛选。 招聘人员没有时间仔细阅读格式混乱的简历,因此建议求职者保持简历简洁明了,突出成就。招聘人员通常不会阅读求职信,除非职位要求或简历中需要解释的内容。 HR和人才部门之间沟通不畅会导致生产力下降、员工参与度降低以及员工流失。一些公司要求员工返回办公室,这可能是为了减少员工数量的一种方式,这会对员工的工作满意度和公司文化产生负面影响。 公司内部的混乱和不确定性最终会损害员工的利益。在经济衰退时期,这种问题会更加严重,因为政府部门的裁员会对员工造成更大的冲击。 招聘人员和HR部门需要积极沟通,提前预测潜在问题,并向管理层提出建议,以应对当前经济环境下的挑战。 David Teretsky: Desiree提出的观点非常有见地,特别是关于公司文化、目标设定以及HR和人才部门之间如何有效合作的问题。我们讨论了AI在招聘过程中的作用,以及它如何帮助或阻碍招聘人员找到合适的候选人。我们还探讨了在当前经济环境下,如何保持员工敬业度和公司文化稳定性的重要性。 我们还讨论了求职信和简历的重要性,以及在当前竞争激烈的就业市场中,如何才能让自己的简历脱颖而出。 最后,我们强调了HR和人才部门需要作为业务伙伴,在与管理层沟通时,将员工的福祉和稳定性放在首位。

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The world of business is more complex than ever. The world of human resources and compensation is also getting more complex. Welcome to the HR Data Labs podcast, your direct source for the latest trends from experts inside and outside the world of human resources.

Listen as we explore the impact that compensation strategy, data, and people analytics can have on your organization. This podcast is sponsored by Salary.com, your source for data, technology, and consulting for compensation and beyond. Now, here are your hosts, David Teretsky and Dwight Brown.

Hello and welcome to the HR Data Labs podcast. I'm your host, David Tretzky, and we have a fun one for you today. We have our friend, Desiree Goldie. Desiree, how are you? I am doing so good, David. It's lovely, lovely Thursday here today in Austin, so I'm doing great. And I'm in Boston, relative to Austin, and it's cold. We have not shaken winter yet, and we're not going to for at least another, I don't know,

Probably month. And it is cold. Yeah, we are in this snap freeze that we always have in February for a week. So it's cold here, too, to us. It was 19 last night. So in Austin, that's like the end of the world. Yes, well, it's 19 here now. And...

It's not the end of the world, but it's really cold outside. Yeah, not good. Yeah. So Desiree, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? Yeah. So currently I'm the Director of Marketing and Culture at ZRG Partners, who are a global talent advisory firm. I also own my own consulting company called Do Better Consulting.

I've been in the talent HR space for a little bit, but my background really started in sales and marketing, consumer foods, and hospitality. And if you'd see the jacket she's wearing now, it screams marketing because it is literally her brand. It is an amazing blazer that basically has tons of articles. It's a black and white blazer, and it's just cool. Fantastic.

Thanks. I wish you could see it. It says cool things, too. Oh, it does? Like care and be social and be kind. Take solace, I see. Yeah, take solace. Yes. It's got some really cool things from actual news. So it's actually a cool, really cool jacket. And that is how I will describe Desiree. She is just cool. But before we get into our podcast today, what's one fun thing that no one knows about Desiree? Yes.

Yeah, I don't know that no one knows it, but most people are going to be a little shocked. I hate chocolate. So that was the HR Data Labs podcast. Thank you for joining. No, I'm kidding. So just so you know, I love chocolate. In fact, I have to have chocolate in my stomach at least once a day or I get depressed. Oh my gosh, you're like my partner. So annoying. Yeah.

So annoying. So it's okay to have it around the house, though? It is because I won't eat it. No, okay. So never a Reese's peanut butter cup? I mean, every once in a while, but it doesn't thrill me like it thrills other people. And I get... Chocolate ice cream. No, I actually don't even like ice cream. Death by... Oh, my God. Death by...

What are you? I don't know, but you would wonder why I'm not super skinny. Okay. For the record, I don't, and I'm just saying this, I don't see anything wrong with you, but, but that being said, death by chocolate ice cream with a chocolate shell on top is,

to me is close to heaven as you can get. And by the way, if you're eating death by chocolate, you're probably going to die from it. I'm a chips girl. I'm a chips girl. Give me a big bag of Doritos and Whitney's and I could sit there all day. It's a problem. Well, next time I meet you all, I'll send some Doritos your way. How about that? Thank you.

So our topic for today is going to be really cool. It's going to be talking about something that is near and dear to a lot of the people who listen to our podcast, Heart, which is the disconnect between talent and HR and how that impacts recruiting and employee engagement and culture. Desiree, what is that disconnect between talent and HR? And how can you tell? What are the signs?

Yeah, I think this is an interesting fact that I've been milling around for years about why I feel always when I work in organizations that have a HR function and a talent function, why there's so much miscommunication. I feel like the goals and objectives of HR should align with what the goals and objectives of talent are, but it doesn't seem to ever really meet that.

And it causes, you know, things like high turnover rates, employee disengagement, misalignments in expectations and comp and all these crazy things that start to happen. But we continually do the same thing, right? We're not fixing that. But can you just do me a favor? Step back a second for one second. What do you mean by talent? Because I've been in some organizations where talent is recruiting. Right.

Are you talking about talent that includes performance management, succession, comp? Yeah, I'm talking about the full talent scopes of talent management, development. Right. I'm talking about the whole thing. I'm not just talking about finding a job. Okay. Right. All right. Right. So, and again, if you are talking about talent as a whole, that disconnect almost becomes even wider between HR and talent. Yeah.

So is talent in this world, is talent underneath the CHRO, though? Yes. Well, yes, if you have one. But then don't you think the alignment, and I'm not picking on CHROs, I used to be one, but don't you think that alignment needs to come from the CHRO, if not from the CEO? Yeah, I totally agree with it, right? We always talk about everything needs to come from the top. But

But I do think that HR leaders who sit underneath a CHRO and talent leaders that sit underneath a CHRO tend to struggle and conflict against each other for some reason. Right? They get in meetings and they just can't seem to agree what the end goal is. Yes, I agree the CHRO should be the ultimate decision maker. Right. But I don't know why we can't even have those conversations up to the fact when we get to the CHRO. Right.

Is it because the alignment on...

What things I mean, could it be as basic as being able to understand what the goals of the organization are? Is it understanding the business? What are those symptoms? What what where where where are we going wrong? Yeah. I mean, I think there's a couple of things. I think there's definitely cultural misalignment. Right. What is the culture we're trying to build here? What is the you know, the objectives and vision of the company? Right.

We all, you know, you can look at a mission, vision, value statement and read it. But what are the true objectives and expectations under those mission, vision, and values? And I feel so many companies don't do that extra step. And so then you get this constant misalignment and butting of heads between HR and talent as you go down and drill into it. I hope that makes sense. Oh, it totally makes sense. And I think it's...

I don't want to say lazy, but I think a lot of times we put up that mission, vision, values on our website. We point to it a lot and we say, well, that's what our goal is. But they really don't have any way of being able to translate into operations. Right. And I'm not even going to lay this at the talent leader or the HR leader. It's not really them. And it's not even the CHRO. The ability to create the right culture comes from, as you said, the top.

But it also permeates a lot of the decisions that are made throughout the organization. So you can say culture as much as you want when you're in HR. But unless your business leaders and your leaders and your managers and even your employees, unless they align to it, it ain't happening. Oh, I totally agree. I mean, I'm actually sick of the word culture. It's starting to drive me a little nuts.

Like chocolate. What is your culture? What is your culture? What's your culture? Culture is the new chocolate is what you're saying. Yeah.

I wish that more people talked about the actual objectives instead of talking about the culture. Like, and I'm doing air quotes, you know, because I don't know if most people could define the objectives of the culture that they work in. And I think you're right. Operationally, we don't drill down into what that actually means. And then we get misaligned, not just in HR and talent, but we get it everywhere, right?

Well, you would have heard it just recently where whether it's Facebook or Meta, whether you're listening to Jamie Dimon for JPMorgan Chase, whether you're talking about, well, the federal government, there has been so much

whiplash that employees have had about what's their culture and how do they act and how do they react and how do they service their clients that I think a lot of employees struggle to understand not just culture, but operational, you know, you're talking about goals, right? Operational tactical stuff. How do I get my job done if my leaders are saying one thing, but we've been working so well the other way and I'm,

I kind of like it. So what am I going to do? Yeah. And then if you're a leader in that organization, right, and you have a leadership style, you've been doing leadership, you're hitting your goals, you're doing all these things, suddenly you have to make this huge switch to

Only your people are freaking out. You don't know what to do because you don't even understand. Now we've got huge misalignment. Right. Right. And how do you develop those people in a culture that does that? Right. And talent and HR have to worry about that.

So tell me you've solved that and world peace is next, right? I know, right? I mean, this is not a solution. No, no, no. We're just highlighting it now. We're just highlighting it now. Yeah. Like what you hear so far? Make sure you never miss a show by clicking subscribe. This podcast is made possible by salary.com. Now back to the show.

Let's go to question two, because I think this is actually kind of cool. And it does talk to like a little bit of how you deal with this whiplash, which is how does that disconnect and how does that difference in operations actually impact the recruiting process? Oh, my gosh. I mean, we talk about this all day, but...

I mean, it takes it longer. Yeah, it really is. It's an own subject, but longer time to fill jobs. Candidate experience is horrifying. You know, I just I went through this whole thing with a candidate recently. And at the end towards offer, we went from remote.

You are five days in the office. Can you imagine? No. Going through six interviews and now all of a sudden they're like, hey, you want it remote, but we're going to send you right back to the office. Well, let me ask you a question about that, Desiree, because that's actually very interesting. What has to happen within that conversation to resell that person?

Now that you've changed the game on them, you've literally changed the content of their job. You've changed their role. Now they have to think about, you know, child care. They have to think about, you know, commuting. They have to think about a lot of things or wardrobe. They have to think about a lot of things that they didn't have to consider before. Where do you go? Where do you start?

Yeah, I mean, in this particular example, I mean, we had to resell the position from scratch. And then you have to sell all the other things that go into the role, growth opportunity, all of those things that you probably maybe highlighted a little bit, but now you have to dig in real deep and prove to that candidate that this is their career path. And sometimes, and in this case, it didn't work, by the way.

Yeah, so I mean, you're right. We're probably going to dig into this more than we should. But this, again, I'll use the word whiplash, this change in direction, this misalignment that occurs. How does that

the way a recruiter would actually have to go about these things if they knew about it from the start. I mean, obviously, it's easier to sell someone when you're not changing mid-game. You're changing the story mid-game. But it's literally about the brand. Oh, absolutely. There's a lot of change about the brand, especially if it's very public, like Meta or JPMorgan Chase, where, you know, there have been missteps. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean...

recruiters or salespeople in the end to, you know, and I think that they're quick on their feet and can adapt to things and,

fairly quickly and they can sell the dream, even if it isn't the dream. Not anymore, maybe. But, right? But as talent leaders and, you know, we shouldn't be putting them or CHROs, we shouldn't be putting them in that position, but it's happening every day. So I think that if you give them the directive, right?

they're really good. Yes, they can switch mainstream, but if you give them the directive and let's say your culture is horrible, you know, I know recruiters that can still sell everything, you know, a dream. So I think you setting those objectives of what that looks like for them is key to how they bring in candidates. Now you can argue with me that,

you know, we, you know, recruiters, that shouldn't be a recruiter's job is to, to figure all of that out. And I, I do agree with that though. I think recruiters should be business partners. Yep. Right. And so, um,

I think that they have a responsibility to some of this as well. Well, when it changes mid-course... Well, that's the worst. That's hard. Yeah. But when it starts out where the requisition already says, in the office five days a week, I think it's a little easier, not only for the recruiter, but also for the candidates to budget for those things. And you might actually get a completely different candidate pool. Yeah.

Oh, absolutely. Who either lives near the office or who doesn't doesn't mind being in the office five days a week or who enjoys it. I mean, obviously, there are people who, you know, love hybrid. They love remote. But they also there are people who love being in the office five days a week. Yeah, they do. And I think if you again, you know, job descriptions for me are everything.

you know, laying out as much as you can in a job description is key. And switching, especially remote hybrid in office to me is what and comp, right? Those are the next thing. But remote in office and hybrid are one of the keys to an essential to a good job description right now, because there are people that have so many expenses. And this job market is crazy. This economy is crazy. And they have to figure that into what they're even asking for.

Or whether the comp meets their needs. So it gets a little crazy when we start to talk about some of these things. Let me kind of go back to, though, one of the things that's a little bit more important for the impact on the recruiting process, which is now there's a lot of supply out there.

Let's call the demand side the recruiter side and the supply side the people side. There are a lot of people who are going to be on the street. We already know the federal government is going to be cutting like crazy. We know a lot of organizations are basically saying, I'm going to cut 10% here or 5% there or wherever.

Some of which came from even COVID days of they hired up a lot of people. But so the supply side is getting more. The demand side is maybe changing a little bit, maybe not even near that. So does this create a little bit more of a buyer's market for the recruiter to be able to be a little bit more picky? Yeah. I mean, whenever we get into this market where there's so much supply, like,

We get pickier and pickier and pickier, and then hiring managers get pickier and pickier. And it's not some, and I don't think, and I'm going to say this and probably people will disagree. I don't even think it's the recruiter. I think it's the hiring manager, right? The hiring manager knows there's a lot of supply out there. There's tons of applications coming in and they can be more picky. And that, when you see these influx of like a thousand people applied on LinkedIn, which by the way is not a true number, but a thousand people applied in 60 minutes,

you know, those, it makes a recruiter that much more able to be pickier. And that causes what I see as a problem for organizations who are looking for the right fit for growth. I don't know if I'm making enough. No, you're making total sense. But my problem is, I'm going to say this again, and people are probably tired of me. They're probably tired of hearing me say this.

Is the AI standing in the way of that recruiter getting the best candidate when they've got so many? You talked about a thousand. You said, oh, it's not real. But let's just say it is real. There are a thousand people who've already applied.

probably 10,000 more who would have applied, but they saw a thousand said, I have no chance. I'm not going to apply. The AI is going scrubbing through it and saying, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

I mean, if you would ask me, it makes it easier, but it also makes me potentially miss out on some really awesome candidates. How would you as a recruiter deal with a thousand applications, a thousand resumes,

2,000 coming your way. If you didn't have the AI in the way, you know, you didn't have an automatic screening tool or, you know, even a screener that each person took like an assessment, a five-question assessment, and the people who got the five highest scores or everybody got a perfect score comes your way. How do you deal with all that these days? It's a nightmare. Yeah.

Right. Even if we put the best scrubbing tools, we're still getting influxes, huge influxes of candidates just because of the way the market is right now. And as a recruiter, let's say you're holding 15 roles, 20 roles. You don't have time. So your your assessment of people's resumes is huge.

In a second. I mean, if you've been doing this long enough, like I have, you can do that, but it still takes a ton of time. And I, you know, I, as a person, am responsible for going through every single one of those resumes to me.

Right. And it's exhausting and it's mind blowing and you don't want to miss anything. And there will be misses. Right. Yeah. And it's unfortunate, but it's the way the world we live in right now. And so you're spending, you know, less than 30 seconds on a resume. So a lot of Red Bull. Yeah.

I mean, recruiters, I mean, I think that's the way we live anyway. Yeah. But the other problem is, you know, I tell people this all the time on LinkedIn, and this goes kind of off subject, and I'll talk to, you know, job seekers a little bit here, but when I see these really unclean resumes that are all chugged up, I don't have time to

to assess those the way I have that's super clean. And, you know, that for me, if you think about the 2000 scenario, if you're sitting as a person who has to go through 2000 resumes, the unclean ones kind of gets, because I don't have time to decipher, you know? Are you talking about the ones that have a lot more formatting? They may have a picture on it or they may have a beach scene or something like that. That's what I'm talking about.

Yeah. Okay. So your advice to people is cut through the BS and just put on there what you're trying to do to sell them. Right. Just give me what you did and the accomplishments you had. That's what I need. I don't need all the other stuff.

You know, if you want to put a pretty color on your name or make the lines purple, I don't care. But like when you start putting them side by side and it drives me insane. But a lot of times aren't those sanitized anyways when you upload your resume? Not all the time. Oh, really? Yeah.

No. Sometimes you get them and you're like, what? And also when they're unclean like that, sometimes they come in the system and it jumbles everything up. So then you have to figure out where things go. If I have less than 30 seconds to decipher whether you're in a fit for the role, guess what?

So I got to date myself here. 1989. The advice that I had from, I guess it was my career counselor at Penn State or whatever it was, it's got to be on yellow paper. It's got to be in, you know, typed single space, blank.

Center your name, center your address, center your phone number, and then everything's got to be left justified. Don't be fancy. Just put everything down. And it had to be on that white paper. You had to fold it with the cover letter. I remember those days. I graduated in 96 from college, and I remember those days as well. And it was very...

Very still, put it on some real quality paper, do the whole cover letter thing. Those are the days. And that goes back to the cover letter thing too, right? Recruiters do read them. I am not one of them. I honestly...

do not, it lets me specifically ask for one or the hiring manager wants to look at one, or you have some kind of situation in your resume that needs explaining that is not explained by the resume. I'm not reading your cover letter because I just don't have time. That's great advice because for all those people out there that spend so much time and they, I've had so many conversations about David, what do I put in a cover letter? And they, I answer, uh, to be honest with you, I don't know why you're writing one. Right. Yeah.

Unless it's required to me.

I just, and I still don't know why people are quiet right now. That's like old times, you know what I mean? Isn't it? That's like ancient stuff. You know, PO Box something, New York City 10016. You know, it's like, you got to send it with a self-addressed stamped envelope if you're going to get a reply. I mean, you know, who does that stuff these days? I don't know. But the technology these days doesn't even allow for it to me. I think we've moved past those days.

With really complex ATSs and AI in the mix now, I think the cover letter should be shot and dead somewhere in a field. So sorry, cover letter, you have an expiration date now. Yes, I'm sorry. That's a race that's out.

What? Desiree says so. Desiree says gone. Desiree killed the cover letter. It went the way of chocolate. Yes, it went the way of chocolate. Hey, are you listening to this and thinking to yourself, man, I wish I could talk to David about this? Well, you're in luck. We have a special offer for listeners of the HR Data Labs podcast. A free half hour call with me about any of the topics we cover.

on the podcast, or whatever is on your mind. Go to salary.com forward slash HRDL consulting to schedule your free 30 minute call today.

So Desiree, let's go to the next question, which is actually kind of gets back to one of the things that I really wanted to find out on this podcast, which was how does that disconnect affect employee engagement and company culture? Yeah, I mean, this one's a great one. You know, I think when you have this disconnect between the messaging from HR and from talent, you lose productivity, right?

You lose engagement in the actual culture, like events that maybe HR is planning, right? You see a drop in those. You get turnover. You get, you know, less productivity, right? I mean, it's shown that, you know, bad cultures decrease people's level to produce for an organization. It's just the truth. Do you think that some of it's...

Do you think that Jeff Bezos or Zuckerberg or Jamie Dimon, I know I've used them several times in this podcast. They're good to use. Yeah, but do you think those are good examples of where that command and control kind of culture coming back into a situation where these companies grew basically as now for the last four and a half years, maybe five years. Yeah.

on the backs of remote work. Now you're slamming on the brakes and saying, we're making a left turn here. Do you think that that's going to impact how people feel about, I mean, obviously it's going to change how people feel about their work there, but do you think that that was intentional by those leaders? Yeah, absolutely. Yes. I mean, that's the short answer of it, but the longer answer is what a way to cut people without having to cut people.

Right? Let's just say you have to come back to the office. You have kids. You have all these things going on. Maybe you're a one-parent household. Maybe you're even a two-parent household. Now we're asking you to do all these other things, pick up kids, do it. It becomes a nightmare. And if you remember the meta Facebook days and, you know, Amazon days where it was the

coolest place to work, right? You went there because they had, you know, all these cool things and, you know, you were so excited to work there. Now you're creating a culture of where it's not so cool to work there. You're in the office and you're stuck in there. And yeah, I would want to leave. And if I have, if I have the

The echelon on my resume, right? If people look at that as the echelon of work, you know, I have the ability to leave because I do have a meta or especially in engineering or Amazon on my resume and I have the ability to leave. I would leave.

Well, but let me turn it a little bit now to the government and where you're going to get a lot of people leaving there now. A lot of people are forced to leave. A lot of people were requested to leave. A lot of people basically said, I don't want to be in this. This is kind of nuts right now.

What are they going to do? Because there are a lot of people, they have jobs like the Forest Service and FAA and NLRB. They can't go just anywhere. What are they going to do? It's going to be super tough. I was just talking to my partner about this last night. If I was a forest ranger, right? Yeah.

where am I going? I mean, don't, you know, and I'm not saying I don't have other skills. Maybe I went to school for something, but this, that amount of people in those skill sets, they're not going to equal out. Right. And especially maybe in my hometown. Yeah. Right. So then there may be a reload or something that needs to happen. It becomes a nightmare. I, I,

When this all started happening, I said, this is the biggest nightmare situation I can imagine for the job market right now. Absolutely. I also want to step back and say, because I totally agree with everything you just said, look at the people who are left. And you talked about employee engagement and culture. They've been demonized. The government employees have been demonized as wasters, as time wasters, as money wasters. They've been demonized as being unnecessary employees.

And a lot of the departments that we're talking about getting cut, they're actually getting potentially closed down. Yeah. Like the Department of Education. Yeah. We don't need a Department of Education. Why would we need that? We only, our reading level is seventh grade in the United States and we're good. Yeah, we're good. No, we don't need math skills. But I guess my point is, what happens with the people who are left, left behind? Yeah.

They're going to look around going, I'm sitting in this gigantic building. I'm here by myself. This is a justice department. Okay. There's nobody here. What am I going to do? Yeah. How about the workload? Yeah, exactly. Can you imagine the mental toll it would be to be one of like five people left in like the Department of Education or something? And by the way, that could actually happen because a lot of people volunteered to leave with the buyout they were given. Yeah.

And so there could be that person who went into the office the next day and said, oh crap. I'm the only one. Yeah. I can make the biggest rubber band ball I ever wanted to make in my life right now. And then there were those who accepted the severance and then told they weren't eligible for it. Right. Right. So again, it's whiplash, right? It's right. This is the, this is the, this is the thing I'm talking about. When we go back to the original subject, when there is a state of confusion, right?

Right. Who suffers is the employee. Yes. Not necessarily the organization at a real level. Who what who suffers is the employee and the humans who make that company work. Right. And confusion and chaos, which is what's happening right now. It's a whole bunch of chaos happening.

And it's deliberate chaos is, you know, I think we lose out on the human part of HR and talent. Right. Because now we're just in this mess and everybody's just trying to survive. Right.

at this point, you know, when Meta came out and said they were firing all their low performers. Well, that wasn't even true right now, but these people now are labeled low performers going into the job market. Well, that's a human being at the other side of the screen, at the other side of that resignation. And we've just completely wiped clean the empathy of,

HR, talent, anything like that. And if it's not put back in a responsible way, fairly quickly, we're in trouble. And I will say we're only, what, 30 days in.

30-something days into this nonsense or something. Yeah, actually exactly 30 days in. Okay, 30 days in to this nonsense. It only gets worse. It doesn't get better. Well, and there were so many fears last year and the year before about a recession. Yeah. And there were fears about inflation. Yeah.

And we're starting to see some prices rise, especially because of egg shortages with the avian flu and other things. Those are not blamed on the government. They're just they are what they are. They are what they are. And what's even more fascinating is eggs are the basis of so much food that if egg prices go up, everything is going to go up in food, even milk. And people are like, well, what's the relationship of milk and eggs?

Yeah, just you wait. It's going to happen. Well, it influences everything. It does, yeah. And so we're at the start right now of what could be a recessionary time. Again, I'm not blaming, and this is not politics at all. This is a recessionary time where you're going to have a lot of people out of work. You're going to have unemployment start rising. You're going to have inflation start rising. It's going to start to be almost a nightmare scenario. And we're going to look around and we're going to say,

oh crap, what are we going to do about it? And we're going to look to the government and what's the government going to say? There's probably not going to be much of a government left. Yeah, that's exactly it. The people who used to be in the Department of Labor or the Bureau of Economic Affairs or wherever, they're not there. And so it's going to be a situation where, actually I heard a report yesterday that said that there's actually a bill tinkering around that will lower social security payments. What?

Well, okay. So yeah, I mean, it gets worse. So there's a, there's a lot that's going to happen that is shaking the psyche of Americans, shaking the psyche of the world, you know, and recruiters who are trying to hire good people, they're going to have a large workload ahead of them, but they're also going to have to look their leaders and say, Hey, keep the wheels on. Right. Don't go nuts on me yet.

don't change things midstream for me. Let's be stable and see if we can withstand this. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if I, and again, this goes back to recruiters,

a business partner type of deal, right? You know, we need to use our voices in the rooms because this is going to be a time where it's going to feel oppressive and it's going to feel like we are just in a turmoil and tornado. And I encourage those talent leaders and, you know, HR leaders to be thinking about

Three steps ahead of where we're at right now, because you might may not see the fallout today, but in three months, this looks like a entire chaotic situation for recruiters.

Right. You have to think about your workload. You have to think about their workload. You have to think about the amount of applications coming in. You have to think about their their own well-being, their mental health. Right. You know, and that's going to be a struggle for a lot of people. And I, you know, I encourage people to to really get into some self-care if you're a recruiter or HR right now. Well, I think you said it quite well, which is talent leaders and HR leaders have to be the

appropriate business partners and raise these flags so that when they're sitting at the table and they're having the conversation with the business leader, I like where you're going with that. They need to make sure that that is front and center on their minds about the whiplash and about making sure culture is

stays constant or at least tries to. Tries to, right. Because, you know, I, I'm not, never been a CEO, but if I was a CEO, it's probably not first on my mind to, to think about these things, but it should be in the first of the minds of HR and talent. Absolutely. Right. And they should come together to do that, not be disconnected in their voice, but,

to voice those opinions. And I think that sometimes it's a struggle for those two to connect on that, but we need to do it right now. If there ever was a time, it's right now.

Right. It's right now. Desiree, I think that's the mic drop moment that you just said. And I think it was brilliantly said. And I can't add anything to it. So I think we're going to call it right there. I think that is the moment where I say, wow, this was a really cool 35 minutes that we spent together.

Desiree, thank you so much for being on the podcast. I love it. I loved it. You're the best. No, you are. And we're going to have to have you back. And one of the things I'd like to talk to you about is looking into talent management processes and how they have to evolve, especially in the new world with AI. But we're going to save that as a teaser for the next time. Awesome. Thank you so much, David. Thank you. And thank you all for listening. Take care and stay safe.

That was the HR Data Labs podcast. If you liked the episode, please subscribe. And if you know anyone that might like to hear it, please send it their way. Thank you for joining us this week and stay tuned for our next episode. Stay safe.