Finding Freedom with Annie Tempest [267]
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I mean, the whole thing covers right through, you know, you can find joy in every little bit once you get it. Hi and welcome to Art Juice. This is honest, generous and humorous conversations to feed your creative soul and get you thinking with me, Louise Fletcher. And today, Alice is on a short break and I am joined by...

special guest I'm joined by Annie Tempest British artist living in York in Norfolk I was about to say Yorkshire from Yorkshire living in Norfolk hi Annie hi Louise lovely to be here very thrilled to be asked and Annie's agreed to do that quite short notice so I'm really grateful to her for being here Annie I'm gonna say my

what I know about you as my introduction. And then you can tell people we've known each other for a couple of years. We met via Instagram, weirdly, even though I know your brother and I know the place where you were brought, where you spent some time, Broughton Hall in Yorkshire, where your family is from. But we knew each other from Instagram.

But Annie is a cartoonist, a famous cartoonist with a history of drawing cartoons for multiple newspapers, including the Express and then the Daily Mail. And then Annie has a very famous series, which has been running in Country Life magazine forever called Tottering by Gently, which we'll talk about, I'm sure, which is based on your family, your own family.

And she's an award-winning cartoonist. But on top of that, she's also an amazing sculptor, which she's been doing for years. She's also a painter. She's basically just an incredibly creative person. And I'm talking to her in a beautiful studio I can see behind you. Have I got all of that right, Annie? And have I missed anything that I should have said? No, you've got all that right. I'm one of those. I think a lot of artists are what they call polypotentialists.

I mean, you're either a creative soul or you're not. And I can see from looking at you on Instagram that, you know, you can turn your hand to anything, as can I. It's just a matter of putting the hours in to decide what you want to do. And I keep finding something else more shiny, like your course, Find Your Joy, which I absolutely loved.

And I know I've been an artist for way longer than you, but I learned so much from you. And I think we have to remember that everybody has a different path and everybody has a little nugget which you can learn from and to put in your own little satchel of things that you carry around with you. And joy is a really important part of art. And in fact, more important than any of the final paintings or whether you sell them or not. I absolutely love creating art.

Yeah, when you signed up, and this is not a sales pitch for the course, by the way, because it's running now and nobody can join it. But when you signed up, I was like, oh, eek. Sometimes I have that when someone signs up who is more experienced, you know, who's been doing this for longer. And I think, oh, no, well, I'll just give them a refund when they realize that there's nothing in it for them. And usually, as you say, there is because,

It's about returning to that. Often professional artists have got away from the thing, the driving thing of just enjoying yourself because you're so busy. You're busy making a living.

My outlook has completely shifted since I did Find Your Joy. But then I think that your course encourages people to do the deeper work as well, where it is about life as well. And I've spent the last few years doing a lot of much deeper work. And it makes such a difference to not only your creative output, but to learning what's important in life. And what's important is not...

I mean, yes, you and I are single women. We have a business. We have to earn money. Otherwise, we can't keep our properties up. But I am so not interested. If I could give everything away, I would. I would definitely choose to do it because I love when I'm making it. I have no further attachment to it. Once it's done, I mean, I'm happy for all my artwork to go. I think I've probably got about two pieces that are very particular to me that I would quite like to

But if somebody else appreciated them as much as I did for having been proud of them, then I would let them go. But it's all in the making of the art that where the where that juice is, where the where the soul stuff is, where the heart is. And I think also it's a lot to do with getting older.

But I mean, the reality is we have to house and feed ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. And I just find it. I think you're a bit younger than me, but I mean, you're roughly my age, I think. I don't know. I'm 61. I don't know. But I can't believe that you've taken on the project that you have. I wish I had the balls to do it because I've actually got the facilities here and I haven't got the balls to really do it.

Yeah. But I'm going to be one of your first regulars up there. Absolutely needed. There's places of spiritual growth for artists. You know, you don't have to be any religion. I'm not absolutely not any religion. But the spirituality and the feel it wholeness of being in flow in work and not caring and just letting it be you and all the time be more you.

Yeah. Given permission to do that, which is what you do in your teaching. And it's absolutely fantastic. It's funny how that came about is that I had taken another course, very good online course where I had observed some people getting stuck quite early on in the process because the person leading the course said, I want you to experiment and play with paint and just have a good time.

And a whole subsection of the course went, what does that even mean? And didn't dare raise their hands and say they didn't understand. So they were just discussing it in the Facebook group or, you know, and I realized this thing, which to me is for some reason quite easy to just experiment and not be attached to whether it's good or bad and just play was really hard for some people. And subsequently in teaching, um,

I found out why I start to learn why that's a problem for people. And I've just got a new coach on my course who says, why are these people? They're so deep with all their problems. Like I just paint. But for so many people, there's a lot attached to that.

There is. And you do need to do a fair amount of unraveling of what your limiting beliefs are in order to get to the point where you because I had a pretty large amount of limiting beliefs. I did the same course probably as you before. And and but I've worked through a lot of my limiting beliefs.

It's amazing to think you had those given all your success. Oh my God, I'm riddled with them because my older sister's an artist and she's been an artist since she was 12. I only started at 24 and only when she left to live in Peru and she was far enough away for me to dare to start. So, you know, so...

So I just didn't believe I could ever be anything like as good as her. And the whole point is I'm not as good as her. I'm different. I'm Annie and she's Bridget. Yeah, we are miles apart. I mean, she's technically brilliant, been to art school and everything else. I'm completely self-taught, but I have a freedom she could never have. Yes.

And it's just horses for courses. I'm just except I mean now, I don't need, I mean, I used to worry like mad that I didn't have an art degree. - Yeah.

that I don't necessarily know if people come up and talk to me about important artists from the past. I've never done history of art. I'm probably going to say, I haven't a clue who you're talking about, but I'm okay with that now because I've done the deeper work to take away those neuroses that stopped me shining my own light, if you like. The one of my sister was an artist is a very common one, or my brother sometimes. It comes up a lot with people on the course that there was someone in their family who was the creative one.

And they were the clever one or whatever, the something else one. And they don't feel they're allowed. And sometimes when they do break out and do the thing, their sibling, even in later life is like, huh? Well, no, you know, I didn't expect that. I'm not accepting that. And starts to put them down, which again reinforces the issue of,

- It's quite interesting because when I started sculpting, which was the first time I broke away from humorous art, which was okay 'cause it was nothing like her art, humorous art. My sculpting was pretty serious art.

And, you know, it meant a lot to me that she approved, but she didn't approve. She never said she approved. And I wanted to her to say I approve, but she never did. And then I started painting with you and I'm really excited about this. And I put all my paintings up and they're quite mad and and crazy because that's what's inside my brain. That's who I am. I'm quite sort of scatty and rather like a car boot sale person. You know, I'm just mad.

And then now she's saying, you should go back to sculpting. So she did like all the sculpting. Yeah, so I was...

I would have been devastated had I not done the inner work, but I'm not devastated. I just find it quite funny. Yes. And I love that. And we're actually going to go on a cruise together, two batty old women. We're going to go on a winter cruise in the Mediterranean to paint in Barcelona and Venice and

and roam on a Viking cruise together. It's going to be completely mad. But suddenly we've both got rid of all our problems and we're not, there's no competition. There never really was, but in my head that I was going to match up to her. Yes. I mean, I still think she's one of the most talented artists I know, but I'd like to see more life in her work. But that's my thing. I've got life and she's got

brilliant depth and meaning and all that. Yeah. This is so important for anyone listening who struggles with this comparison with anyone, because it might not be sister. It might be someone online or someone that you know at art club that you go to. For me, when I was six, seven years old, there was a boy in our class called Dale. I still remember him. Dale Airy, if you're listening, I'm sure you're not.

And he was so talented at drawing and the teachers all said Dale was the best in the class and none of us were. And I wanted to be really good at drawing, but they never noticed my drawings.

And so I always grew older feeling like, well, nobody ever thinks I'm good at drawing. You know, I'm not like he was and drawing was the thing that I wanted. And now look, but that held me back for a long time. I didn't go to art school. I didn't do any of that. I went off and got a corporate job and I just thought that was my life. And I only came back to it later because

And then found that, yeah, I might not be as talented. By the way, he became a biologist and never did anything with this art. And look at you, thriving business in art. Yeah, so who knows? It comes to those who wait and who persevere. Perseverance is a very important thing if you want to make a living through art. You have to work really hard and you have to never let anything knock you down. Yeah. And I think self-belief, more and more, I think,

When you look at people who are very successful, yes, there are some people who are super, super talented and original and amazing. But there are an awful lot of people who sell a lot of paintings or do, you know, have success in galleries or whatever, who've just been persistent and hardworking.

So true.

And that's carried him through everything. It's fine. So long as you, you, you recognize it. And I think actually in his case, he does recognize it. I think he's quite funny. And you know, why not? Why not just believe that you now, whether you could ever get a woman or certainly of that generation who would have had that self-belief and just gone and stormed the art world doing the things he did. I don't know. Cause we get knocked down a lot more.

than men do when we're smaller. But regardless, he did all that and people dismiss him. And I get why they dismiss him. And I get some of the things he does are a bit cringy or whatever, but I just really admire the gumption to say,

I'm the best there is and this is my stuff. Give me loads of money for it. And people do. I know, I know. Well, I must say, I know you're a great fan of Tracey Emin. It took me ages before I realised how good she was. It really did. And I don't, you know, and if you say it, you get knocked back. Every time I say it, I actually think she's really good. But because sometimes a lot of rubbish that she produces is shown. I mean, she produces, you know, a lot of rubbish. And of course,

And I do love that thing that I learned when I was working with, you know, working through stuff with you was that every painting goes through a teenage stage, you know, and it's really ugly. And you've got to have the self-belief

to know that you've just got to put up with that adolescent behavior of your piece until you can get to the other side. And that, then that made me not give up when, because I'm trying to understand abstract art and I'm beginning to understand it and the joy of making it and the fact that there is good and there is bad abstract art.

And understanding things that I never knew a thing about because I wasn't trained. I didn't know anything about design principles or color or any of those things. And I've learned them. And my whole life has become more interesting because it makes me look at the room that I live in differently. You know, are there some nice differences in there that are going to make me feel more comfortable when not everything's the same and that sort of thing? I mean, the whole thing covers right through. You know, you can find joy in every little bit once you get it.

Yes, so true. I think one of the things, one of the reasons I wanted to have you on as a guest, because I feel like a lot of people can learn from the way you are, is it's this thing, again, self-belief, self-acceptance. You've already indicated some of that about the fact that you have a lot of different interests and that you want to do a lot of different things.

When I look at you, whenever I see you on Instagram, I see someone just bursting with creativity doing different things.

But there are people who take my courses who are like that naturally, but who say, oh, I'm too scattered. I want to do too many different things. I need to pick a niche. Did you ever feel like that? Yeah, no, I was I was forced to be like that until I broke out into sculpture. And I was really criticized for it because people want you in your funny box.

you know, something very bad happened in my life. I lost my son and I needed an outlet that would take the serious, um, um, uh, emotions. Um, you know, when none of us are one dimensional, um, and when something catastrophic like that happens in your life, you need to harness that creativity into perhaps another way. Uh, and, and that wasn't about selling anything. I mean, the fact was that I worked incredibly hard and got quite good at it. So it did have an outlet, but, um,

I was criticised hugely by galleries. You can't show cartoons and deeply emotional sculpture in the same spot. And you certainly can't show figuratively drawn cartoons, sculpture and abstract art in the same thing. Basically, the commodity brokers who are the galleries, and that's all they are really, are

don't want you to be as as broad as you as you have every right to be even though if they if they show in tracy emincy they'll be showing bronze sculptures and paintings and drawings and she's allowed to do whatever she wants because she's at that point but what's he called perry uh what's he called the other the other guy who does oh grace and perry yeah i

I am Grayson Perry in disguise as a middle-aged woman. Well, he's sometimes a middle-aged woman too. Honestly, he's allowed to, to just have fun. That's all I want. I want to have fun.

fun. I've got my income stream, you do need an income stream. And whether that means a regular job for part time or whatever, if you're a single woman, you need an income stream. Luckily, Tottering by Gently, which is my cartoon is my income stream. The rest of it, and I want to spend a very short time on that. And I want to play the rest of the time. And luckily, I'm still very in touch with my inner child, although I've managed to mature into a

I am not a complete child anymore. In the last few years, I have matured into an adult, which is a bit late doing that. I went better late than never. Yeah. So I can now put boundaries down and do the things that adults do, which I couldn't do before.

But I have completely kept in touch with my inner child. And I want to play with my inner child for most of my week, because that's what living to me means. And that's what I learned from Find Your Joy. Yeah, that's wonderful. So the cartoon is like the equivalent for me would be my teaching, because I always knew, and I'm sure I've said this on the podcast, and people will be bored of hearing it, but

I always knew that if my painting was my sole income, I would feel constrained and trapped and it would be difficult for me and I might lose the pleasure in it.

And so when teaching came along, which happened kind of without me, it just happened without me realizing. But when it came along, it was like, oh, right, that gives me, that allows me now to do what I want. And lately, I don't even feel like selling anything. I don't feel like putting anything up for sale. I just feel like doing my own experiments, my own thing,

But I can do that because I've got this other thing. I think that is a very good point. And whether it's from art, as ours incomes are, or whether it's that you drive a... I knew someone drove a school bus and someone else. Just do something. Someone worked in a supermarket part-time to pay and then did this the rest of the time. The reality of it.

Yeah, yeah. Unless you want to be fully career oriented with the artwork and go full on, right, I'm going to be consistent. I'm going to make galleries love me because I do the same thing over and over again. And that's a possible route too. Yes, but that to me would be a corporate job. And it's what I did for years with cartoons. My God, it nearly killed me. I mean, it's a huge pressure. It's a massive pressure, much, much less pressure to...

you know, go with, to run with your spirit. So let's talk about that a little bit, the tottering by gently, because obviously it's been huge for you. And I think of it when I see those cartoons. And if anybody doesn't know it, you just Google tottering by gently and you'll find it. I think,

like to me that would be fun to do. So it's interesting to hear you say that it's quite pressured. It is fun to do. But if you think that for 32 years, every single week I've done another cartoon, it gives you an idea. I mean, you know, and you, the thing is with tottering, people have grown up with it. When maybe somebody who's now in their forties, when they were five, their mother cut one out, put it on the fridge and it's still there. I cannot repeat myself. And I'm just my,

my memory lasts out because somebody would say, you've done that before. I've got it on my fridge. It was there when my, you know, whatever. And it's, you know, that's the pressure is the new ideas. And also as you're, you know, I have a big fan base globally and,

And people expect me to be as good every week. And that's an impossible amount of pressure. Yes, that makes such a difference. So I have to kind of let go of that and just go, I do my best from week to week. That's all I can promise is that I'll do my best. And at some point, presumably, I'll dry up. But I haven't so far. It's like a toothpaste. You can always get a tiny little bit more out. Yeah. On a Monday morning, I come down and I sit with a blank page of paper, which I've got.

here this is the sort of thing that happens and I sort of write and draw and something will evolve well it's an a3 piece of paper which I put on my desk and I line up the boxes and somehow my brain starts clicking in and I work from my own experience you know what am I doing well today I'm so you know trying to service the tractor it's not quite as nice as your blue tractor but you have a tractor though we both have tractors who would have thought we're ever

We're man, woman, worker. You know, we have to be we have to be multifaceted. You know, tractors need new blades and need need whatever. So I will probably this week do something on on Daffy on her tractor.

I don't know what I'll do. I'm not going to think about it till Monday. That's one thing I have learned is just keep everything in the moment. I don't worry about it until the moment comes on a Monday morning when I sit down to do it. One of the things that strikes me about it as we're talking about it is even though it's a commercial enterprise and it's a job and you do it every week and it brings in the income, it

it wouldn't work unless it was authentic. And I'm thinking of someone I used to know who was a writer, wanted to write Mills and Boone romance novels because there was money in that. Yeah. But she wasn't interested in Mills and Boone romance novels and all her submissions got rejected because they said, you have to actually love it and believe it and want to do this. It's not just something you toss off. And what,

With you, tottering is based on things from your life, from your childhood, from your growing up, as well as things now. It's got an authenticity to it. That is the reason why it's gone on for 32 years. Tell us about what the basis for it is, because you have quite an interesting family story as well as your own story.

Well, I was born to the second son of a family that practiced primogeniture, which means the first born boy and no girls at all will inherit the entire family.

place. And it is a large, large estate in Yorkshire. So having had three girls, my poor mother finally had a boy, she had a boy and then she had a spare. So she had an heir and a spare. So that was good. But we hadn't inherited at this point. My father was the second son and was banished to the colonies. And we he lived in two rondarvels, which are mud huts in Zambia on 50 acres of bushland.

And when the political situation got difficult in Africa, well, he met and married my mother out there and two of us girls were born out there. Anyway, so when we were little, he decided it would be safer to bring us back to England. But the job he'd got lined up for himself fell through before the boat sailed, the banana boat to England.

You couldn't take any money out, not that he had any anyway. He was a floor salesman, floor tile salesman. So we were taken in in charity into a very large stately home by his great aunt. No, by my great aunt, his aunt in Oxfordshire. And we were we lived like rats in the basement with no windows.

And we were treated like vermin, not by her, but by all our cousins who were kind of. So it sounds, you see, to someone from my background, tiny little semi-detached 60s house on a little cul-de-sac in a village. I would have been so envious of you. It sounds like a glamorous life. You were living in a stately home.

Yeah, it sounds like it, but we were literally in on charity in the basement. Like, if you imagine, if you've ever been to a stately home, you go down to the cellars, which have no windows and they've got six foot stone walls. That's what we were living in. It was a poor household and we'd come from Africa. So poor Bridget and I had fat walls.

with chill blades the whole time. And it was miserable. Anyway, finally, dad's brother gave him a little bit of money to build a small house. My great aunt gave us a bit of land and we built a small house and it was all lovely. I was at school in Oxford. I was really excelling in woodwork. Because I was dyslexic, so I couldn't do anything. And it was a lovely school. And, you know, I could do nature and woodwork and playing whist and things, but I couldn't do any of the academic subjects. Anyway, suddenly his brother died. It just...

during a Labour government, intestate. And so we inherited this absolutely falling apart, a stately home in Yorkshire. And it's so beautiful now. Oh, my God. You I mean, honestly, I based Tottering by Gently on what I remember of it. Literally, we had hip baths in the corridors with rain pouring in from the roofs because no maintenance had been done. He was quite I think he was autistic. His older brother, he was rather an unusual man.

And we used to dad used to give us all Blu-Tack. And every time it was a leak, we'd go up and plug the leak with Blu-Tack. The whole room filled with Blu-Tack. But anyway, slowly he got it back. But there was, you know, mum had no help and she would she'd lived in Africa most of her life. And so we saw it as outsiders in a way. So I think that gave me a view in to that life. And it was Mrs. Shagpile was the occasional person we had in sometimes to help.

But you were either sitting burning one side of your body by a fire or freezing. There was no heating. Dad's dog used to lift its leg on all the columns in the hall every single night. Nobody could be bothered to go and put him out. It was it was a mad and there was swallows nesting in the four posters and snow on the billiard table. It was crazy. So I just thought when I when it came to it, when the yucky period ended and I was doing that on the Daily Mail and I lost that job.

I just thought I'm going to write about my life because as you were saying for the Milton Boone thing is unless you really know it, it's not going to feel authentic. And because I decided to use my dad, it wasn't my mum. It was a neighbour in Norfolk was Daffy, who I've now grown into. But and then Serena and Onjon, well, Onjon is now Roger. Yeah.

Right. Runs the Broughton Sanctuary. It's now honestly, it's like clarages now. And it's got, you know, it's unbelievable. Well, it's not funny. We're all workaholics. All the children of my parents were all workaholics.

And, you know, Roger has worked incredibly hard. I take the piss out of him mercilessly. But he I mean, I'm very proud of him, too. He has worked bloody hard to do what he's done. And he had the vision before everybody else did. For those who don't know. So Broughton Hall is this beautiful stately home which is now rented out to bring in income for events and so on. But also in the grounds, he's created this wellness sanctuary for

with just incredible facilities. And when I was there, there was actually a retreat happening and people were using the different facilities. It's stunning. The gardens are beautiful. The whole place is amazing and such a testament to the family because so many of those homes are struggling or falling down. And that one is just, it's a beautiful jewel in the countryside. Yeah.

It is amazing. And he's now creating a 30-kilometre sanctuary walk around the estate. And, you know, now he's got all these things like Iron Age pigs and these great big cattle and stuff. It's all been rewilded. And also a business park with offices for rent, which are lovely. So lots of different income streams, which is very smart. What an interesting family you are. It was making me think when you were telling me about snow on the billiard table and all of these things that...

Because I was wondering, how did you all end up so creative? Because he's an artist in his own way, because he's created this whole thing from nothing. I think it's a healthy amount of being ignored. Certainly us girls, we were completely ignored and we became artists. Because what else do you do? I mean, it was pre iPads and everything. So what did you do? You learned to use your imagination more.

But also I have a great grandmother and this is an extraordinary spooky story I'm going to tell you. Well after I'd become a cartoonist, probably about 10 years into it, I discovered in the library of Tottering Hall, Broughton Hall, some cartoons, a lot of cartoons. And it was my great great great grandmother, well in 1850. And she was a cartoonist. And not only that, but I knew she was a woodcarver, but I didn't know she was a cartoonist.

And in one of those books, I'm very well known for doing dogs and dogs in the bed and dogs on the bed and all that sort of. I found 1870, she'd done a spaniel in the bed and it could have been one of mine. How strange. Absolutely bizarre. And I didn't know she was a cartoonist. I knew that she was an amazing woodcarver. And what's lovely, so she had, and she was an archivist, she was an incredible polypotentialist.

But what's really interesting is my daughter has become a luthier and is using her tools because she was a fabulous woodcarver. So so the woodworking and the creativity is coming through generation after generation. Yeah. And yes. And so because I don't have anybody in my family that I know of who was creative. But you have someone where you know exactly where you are.

inherited that interest from. Stone carves as well as print makes and paints and everything else. So we're both, you know, three-dimensional as well as two-dimensional artists. But I think this childhood too is,

Explain something else about you that I find fascinating. And this brings us up to the present day because you were telling me what's been happening recently. You are very resilient. You described losing your son. That's obviously a horrendous experience. You turned that into becoming a sculptor.

You've recently had some more big changes, which you can tell us about. But I just assume when you told me about it, you didn't tell me as in, oh, well, woe is me. This happened. That happened. You went, right. This has happened. I've done this. I've done this. And now I'm back. And I think that resilience comes from from what you're saying about childhood. But tell us a little bit about what's been happening lately and what your response to it was.

Well, I have been incredibly lucky in my artistic career because two years into doing Tottering, so I'd been going for quite a while before, but two years, it was about 1993 or something, a London gallery took me on and they...

The owner of that gallery has represented me for 30 odd years and has run all the business side of tottering and has helped build the brand and whatever. And he recently got I mean, he's 82, for God's sake. But, you know, and he needed to retire. But it was exacerbated by illness. So it happened very suddenly. And I've had to learn.

I mean, you seem so good at it, but to me, it was an anathema. How to work Shopify, how to build a website, how to upload things into that and how to use Photoshop to do this, that and the other and put watermarks on so they couldn't be and put them in the right resolution so they couldn't be just printed off on a print. All these things I had to learn and very suddenly, I just, one of the things I've learned in the

I'm very super hyper independent and it's not a good thing I can tell you I find it very hard to ask for help

But I have learned to ask for help. And I've basically been dog walking around my village just asking anybody, do you know how to do a website? Do you know how to do this? Do you know how to do that? And my God, it takes a village and a village have got me. And just women from the village, you know, in these tiny rural back streets, there are so many people who are hiding their lights under bushes. Oh, yeah. There's so many interesting people. And this, that, and the other.

Anyway, it was just like, come and have a cup of tea. And will you just show me how to do this? And then I'd write down the pathway and then I'd practice that. And I'd practice that until I could do it. And then the next thing.

And actually, you know, it's actually anything you really apply yourself to can be very interesting, providing you make it interesting. And it's lovely social time. And now I've got so many skills now. Oh, God, I feel like I'm not a Luddite anymore. And, you know, I'm very slow because I'm 65. My brain is not working as fast as it used to. And that's quite shocking because but actually, you know, it's just because I haven't been in my left brain, which is the logical thing.

I haven't been there. I haven't visited there. I've had to literally shove my way through a little slit window to get in. And you say that you say I seem good at all that, but I had all those same experiences. I had them earlier than you because I had another business before this one that I launched with my husband years ago and we needed a website. So at the time you hired web designers because you couldn't make your own website then. It wasn't doable unless you knew how to code. Right.

But there were other things we had to learn how to do. And I remember we got the website up and running and we went, oh, right, how do we get people to it now? And Google AdWords had just begun and Phil had a friend who was in marketing and we rang him up and he said, oh, try this Google AdWords. And he, just like you, he showed us how to do it. And it drives me nuts, honestly, when older people, especially women do this, say, I'm

Oh, I'm not, I'm not very technical. I can't do that. Like none of us could do it until we could do it. None of us could do it till we learned. You've just got to dare. And I really, you know, a month ago,

I was not only being told I couldn't do it, but I believed I couldn't do it. But then I just thought, oh, for God's sake, it can't be rocket science. I know some pretty thick people who work with computers. I know that I've got quite a high IQ and I've got a lot of determination. So I just thought, fuck it, I've got to learn to do it. I don't want to, but I've got to learn. And actually...

By sitting down and actually beginning to learn it, I suddenly start, this is quite fun. And this saves me employing two other people. And I'm quite speedy. This just doesn't take much. And it's just...

Things are not as scary as you think if only you try it. But when I look at you and other courses online, I think, well, I could do that. But then I thought, no, because all this Kajabi stuff. But actually, I'm sure it's doable. I just don't want to take any more time out of my studio. And I'm lucky enough to have Tottering, which can do that side of it. So I fully intend to spend my time visiting people like you who are doing all that hard work in the background. I've got the money.

I do sometimes think, why do I not make my life easier? Why do I? My course had just got up to the point where it doesn't run itself, but it's established and I know the systems and how to do it. And I have a membership and that's running along gently. And then I just go, oh, I know what I'll do. I'll take on another giant project.

Don't ask me why. - I know, well, I've just taken, during this time where I was having to suddenly learn all this, having never done it, I've literally had a nanny for 30 years, a proper nanny. I decided to get a puppy. I mean, a puppy is a full-time job in itself. It's been asleep, it's been done really well.

But I've had sleepless nights. I've been sleeping on the floor with my hand in the dog crate. I didn't have it, you know, didn't because, you know, it mustn't come on the bed in the first week. That would just be so bad of me. It'll be on the bed probably by six weeks time, but not not just yet. Yeah, my sleep's on the bed. Yeah, no, no. My first dog absolutely does. But I've done cartoons about, you know, you can't I can't let you do that the first week. There are ways this this has a hierarchy. Yeah.

I'm going to hold on. I've got a boundary setting skill now. So, yes, I've been sleeping on the floor and trying to do all this and going bog-eyed from the computer. But actually, do you know, I'm so invigorated and I got to paint for a whole day yesterday and I just thought, there we go. I can paint for a whole day in my week, even when I'm doing four people's work. And do you do sculpture anymore or is it all painting at the moment? I'm getting awfully tempted.

because I have a facility and if you know you can make things, it's, oh, I've got the kiln on. Yes, I put a little torso in the kiln. I forgot to take it out. God, that would never have happened in the old days. But no, that's ready in the kiln. And that I'm going, I want to make sculpture more affordable. So I've teamed up with a soap maker and we're making a series of beautifully sculpted soaps.

and she's a wonderful aromatherapist and whatever called In a Lather. In a Lather, I don't even know how you say that. But I met her on Instagram, like I met you, which is a wonderful place for meeting other artists. Yes. And I don't have the time to do it, but I know how to make a mould. So I've got three with her at the moment and this little torso is going to be another one. And it just makes a fun gift. And then because it's still the piece of art I made,

And, you know, a soap can't be too expensive. So it becomes more accessible. More people can have art in their house. That's that's kind of what I like to think. Yeah. It's a boost to her business. And I want to bring on the young and give them the kind of breaks that I never got. Yeah. And what I know there'll be people listening who are interested, who either are sculptors or who are interested in sculpture.

Tell us just a little bit about the kind of sculptures that you've made, like what materials you use. I am completely in the dark about sculpture. I don't know anything about it. Do you carve or do you make molds or do you do all of it? Okay, sort of a bit like layering a painting.

I'm somebody who builds and takes away. There are some people who literally only use a takeaway. So they get a great lump of clay and they use a takeaway. Some people do, you know, there are all sorts of methods like what I call the sheep ship method, which is loads of tiny little bits and you add it like that and it gives a lot of surface.

And I do that sometimes. Again, I'm a bit eclectic in my sculpture too. Sometimes I'll work in a sort of almost Picasso-like way and sometimes I'll work Giacometti. Sometimes I'll work Annie, which is highly emotional, very smooth and tactile. And so I work in clay or in wax. Wax is a lovely medium. You do need practice in wax, but you could go very fast in wax and you can do little maquettes quite fast, walking around a real subject.

And I have I did spend a lot of time learning everything about anatomy. So I am a very good anatomist. So I can I can create a realistic figure just without a model because I know about the internal works of the body. Oh, interesting. Yeah, that was the biggest learning I've done since.

I learned to do cartoons. I decided to do an online course with a guy called Scott Eaton, who teaches all the Pixar and Disney artists about anatomy and movement. And it was, I don't know, six months or something. And it was intense. I had to learn every insertion and origin of every muscle of the body. Loved it because I wanted to be able to sing as opposed to talk as a sculptor. And that meant that.

not being needing a model in the studio I wanted to be able to use my imagination to use any position I could decide to put a body in and know that it would read for real because I know the body like a machine now yeah oh interesting I used to know all the names of them all but they've disappeared but I know exactly the shapes and whether they're you know whether they've got two bits or one bit as an insertion I know and all the volumes I know what

And that gives you an incredible freedom. And I wish I, and I want to do more fun things with that. It's very, it can be very expressive. So yes, I will be sculpting again, but I haven't got time because I'm loving my abstracts too much.

I haven't got enough hours in my day. I'm just so excited about everything. And I'm going to start doing collage. Look, I've got this beautiful. Oh, that's gorgeous. We're looking at scraps of. I've got these scraps of leaves and it's from a Japanese paper plant that got a disease. And then I've got my flower press and I'm going to use these as collage pieces on a piece I'm working on. You know, it's just that freedom to just use everything in one's life and environment is beautiful.

Just I mean, literally, I'm a I'm a child in a sweetie shop every day. It's almost an illness. I was going to wrap up by asking you what what is currently your inspiration? Where do you find inspiration and what are you currently interested in? OK, well, what what seems to be my inspiration at the moment is memory.

So I on Thursday, I was back in the memory of being a just turned 16 year old living in Paris in 1976 and seeing Egon Schiele for the first time.

And living in a chambre de bonne, which is a servant's room, a box room at the top of 157 steps in Boulevard Pereira. When you're 16, you can do that. And hanging out in the Quartier Latin and going to jazz dives. And I wanted to do, you know, to use a bit of realism and a bit of abstraction, just to

to the chaos of a 16 year old's mind full of fear, but full of thinking I'm terribly grown up and full of...

not really understanding how serious it is. I mean, to think that my dad sent me to Paris. He said if I could leave school, if I got my A-levels. So I took my O-levels and A-levels in a year when I was 15. And I got French and English A-level. But then he told me I could leave school if I got my A-levels. I did it. So I left for Paris and he gave me eight francs to go with.

And I found a job as an au pair girl. And I just think, God, can you imagine sending a 16-year-old now with no friends? Yeah.

And I was thinking, what the hell was my parents thinking? I was a headstrong wild child. But anyway, so I was painting that. So memories, I've been far, far back into my childhood, remembering, you know, through objects, transitional objects like a ball that I had and a gutting knife for fishing that I used to wear on my belt as a seven year old.

and all these transitional objects and just trying to dive back into memory and try to remember through shoes that I remember having and just making abstracts about the feelings that brings up. That's kind of what I'm playing with at the moment. Oh, so interesting. And you have such great memories. My mum didn't send me to Paris when I was 16, so I didn't have that memory. I should think my mum knew where I was. She was so not interested in me. LAUGHTER

But those were different times because I was just saying to someone, I used to be a crazed football fan and my mum used to let me go with a slightly, a friend and her slightly older cousin to football matches where there was in those days a lot of violence. And I was just saying to someone, why did my mum let me go off? But in those days, people,

we were a lot more independent and parents allowed us to do a lot more things that wouldn't be dreamed of now. And parents didn't have the imagination to think really, I don't think. You know, we used to go down to the shops as tiny tots, four and five, on our own into the village. Yeah, go get some, go get me or whatever. Yeah. I used to go get my mum cigarettes because she used to smoke. Yeah.

Go get me a pack of cigarettes. She doesn't anymore. She'd kill me if I said that. Thank you very much, Annie. This has been an absolute joy. Where can people find you? Because you've said about this new website, tell us where they can find you on Instagram and what your new website is.

Okay, well, the real Annie is on Annie Tempest Artist on Instagram, because I'll put all my crazy different outlets on there. But obviously for the pure Tottering by Gently, there is Tottering by Gently on Instagram as well. And I don't put anything except Tottering on there.

So those are really, and if you want, if you're interested in looking at my sculpture, there is a website called AnnieTempest.com, which has images of the sculpture. I'm not very interactive with it, but you can see the sort of things that I do and you can see the difference. It's a very, it looks like a completely another person, but you know, I have many layers. There's a beautiful, I've actually seen one of your sculptures in person because it's at Broughton Hall and,

Oh, yes. And Roger, you said you were very proud of him. He's very proud of you because he tells everybody this is my sister's sculpture and this is what she made it about. So if you get a chance, go look at Annie's website and have a look at some of those because they're very moving. And I'll put the links below wherever you listen to this podcast. The links will be there so you can just click and go and have a look.

So thank you, Annie. Absolute joy as always. So I'll see you next week, everybody. And thank you very much, Annie. Take care. Bye.