Pace, Patience and the Peaks! [264]
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- There is nowhere for this paint to go. There is nowhere it needs to go now. I think we are done. Hello and welcome to Art Juice. This is honest, generous and humorous conversations that will feed your creative soul and get you thinking with me, Alice Sheridan. - And me, Louise Fletcher.

And we are checking in with each other after a busy and relaxed summer to find out what has been going on and what you have lined up ahead. It's really just going to be a bit of a check-in and chat call, isn't it?

It really is because we messaged each other and said it's weird not knowing what's going on with each other because we've had a few weeks of not speaking and it's just weird so I want to know everything that's been happening so sorry everybody you're just going to get what's been happening with us. What has been happening?

What has been happening is I have been spending quite a bit of time in Cumbria, which is why I currently have a cat pressing itself against everything, my computer and everything else, because I have a cat sitter looking after my cat here and she's very excited to see me. So I've been spending a lot of time there on preparing the property.

trying to get it ready for hopefully next spring to be able to start having people visit and very very exciting to see what's happening in the agricultural building yeah new works Workshop

It's remarkable actually what they've been able to do to people in like only two weeks of actual work on that. It's all studied out now. The roof is now being studied out, you know, with the spaces for insulation to go in. We're having conversations about where will the toilet be and where will the people hang their coats up when they come and where will the storage be? And oh, it's so exciting to see that happening.

And so that's been happening. I've been working a lot on the house itself, just trying to I really want a certain feeling when you come to it. So I'm trying to start creating that feeling. And then when I'm not there, I whiz up and down. It's like two hours from home. So it's not too bad. And it's a beautiful, beautiful drive. The most amazing drive up and down there.

So apart from one day when we did it in torrential rain, the other times it's been absolutely gorgeous. And so it's just very busy. And I'm also prepping to teach my free course, which start, well, when this comes out has actually got underway. So I'm really busy. So when you said a relaxed summer, I was like, oh yeah, what's one of those?

Oh, one more thing I must tell you before I ask you what you've been doing. I went to look at a tractor. I went to choose a tractor. I chose a tractor because this property has some fields and a wood. And the idea, I have a vision of what that will be, is that you will walk down through these fields and you'll be able to go into the wood and you'll be able to sketch or just meditate or whatever.

But at the moment, the fields are a little bit, well, they're quite unkempt. And it's either I rent them to someone else, which then means we're less able to just do whatever we want there. Yeah, what you mean if they put livestock in them or something to look after? Yeah, I mean, the farmer at the moment, the local farmer, I'm letting him graze his sheep in the field just to help keep it down. But yeah.

I don't want cows in there. So anyway, I decided, right, what I need to do is just cut it a few times a year myself. That's what needs to happen. Or, you know, someone else but myself.

So after asking the neighbors and saying, will anyone want to cut this for feed and no one needs it because they've all got their own feed? I thought, right. So off we went, looked at little mini tractors that can also do lifting things for when we dig paths into the wood, we're going to need all

all this equipment. So yeah, I found myself in a tractor farm, a tractor barn talking to this man about whether to get a Zetor or a Solis and how many horsepower I need. And my biggest concern was which one can I climb up into and which one do I feel like I can actually drive if I need to.

if I find myself you know with visitors coming a week from now and the field needs cutting can I do it so I think I found a very nice little blue one are you getting one with a mulcher um it won't have a mulcher it won't even have a mower attached right we'll buy the mower to attach to it okay

but it does have a radio and heating so that's important so anyway that's all you can have headphones and thermals for that what i thought to myself as i was walking around was when i decided to try and make a living from my art this is not what i imagined my future would look like but it is kind of going in a full circle because when i was teenager

I was brought up in a rural village and I hung out with the young farmers. And so I'm just back where I started.

It is funny though, I mean the tools and the gear. I've been over at the studio today and I got Paul to come with me to help me do framing and hanging hardware and all of that kind of stuff. And we were chatting to somebody else in our kind of industrial, you know, the place where I rent my studio. And what are they? Oh, he saw us going in and I said, yeah, arms falls a kick today because we're doing all the framing, which usually I do at home.

And this guy very excitedly said, do you have a tab gun? A what? A tab gun. You know on the back of frames, when you buy frames that have replaceable backs, you have those little metal things that you can bend up to take the back out and then...

yeah and press them back down again and I said oh no I don't because I don't have those kind of frames anyway he was saying that he had got all excited about woodwork and then he built himself a shed specifically to store all the tools and his friend came over and said so you've built a shed for all the tools that you needed to build the shed to store the tools which is why you're

And sometimes it does feel a little bit like that with all this, doesn't it? Yes, it does. And it feels it's also easy to get drawn in because there was a small one that was just suitable and then a bigger one. And the man was like, well, this bigger one will do your field in half the time and.

And I was like, oh, and this one's got air conditioning and it's much more comfortable when you sit in it. And then you think, no, and it's an awful lot of money and I don't need that. I only need the little one. But yeah, once you get talking to them, they're like, oh, would you like a wood chipper for it? And would you like this? And would you like that? And yeah, you could very soon run up a giant bill on something that you're not actually very interested in.

Yeah, well, I don't know. Okay, more tractors. What have you been up to? I bet you haven't been looking at tractors, I'm fairly certain. I've not been looking at tractors. I have been reseeding the garden.

Oh, nice. Yeah, which is only a little short pat. So I have been daily checking my new grass seed growth very happily. I have had what what's happened is I have had like we have had more time off the podcast. I feel like I've had a more spacious summer. And because we've we've been at home, we haven't been away anywhere yet. We're going away later in September. I have also been determined that I'm going to.

enjoy the time, basically give myself more space. You know, if it's nice and sunny and I want to sit in the garden and read a book, do all of that, not race around, like trying to get everything done. And it's really interesting. So I have been working for, I've got a solo show coming up in a gallery in the West of England for which all the work has to be complete and the courier is picking it up.

actually on the day that this podcast is going to go out. So I did myself a countdown because at one point I was in danger of being so chilled about it that I was just like, yeah, it'll happen, it'll happen. And I had to give myself a talking to, yeah, you actually have to go and do it and like be clear. I was in a happy creative muddle and I was like, right, you have to get these lined up. How many, which ones? Yes, no, which ones are moving forward? Which ones are going to stay put?

And so I've had a sort of very enjoyable project countdown that has kept me enough on track with no anxiety about it. It's been really nice to feel like each day I've got a specific thing to go in and do and move forward. And

how that having that momentum has also meant that two other things that have been kind of

in mind as things that I know I want to work on, but they've been on sort of pause space for a while. One is redesigning our membership hub. I had a sudden rush of energy. And then I did have a day where I got rather obsessed. And Paul kept saying, are you going to eat? Are you going to eat? And I said, I'm just going to do this first. I'm just going to do this first. And then all of a sudden it was 7pm and I hadn't had breakfast yet, which is

Not very good, but it was quite good fun and I got a lot done and really stuck in in a way that I'm actually enjoying. And that now has happened. So that's rolling too. And then I got just started talking to a few people about this retreat that I'm running in Bali next March. So we've got places getting books on that now, which is quite fun. So it's been nice how out of this pause,

out of this pause, you know, just everything feels like it's motoring very gently. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I've been doing.

I definitely have the feeling, I said this before, that one of my goals for this project in Cumbria was not to make it into like some massive must get everything done really fast and must push, push, push. And to try and do, just be patient. That's part of the reason I had Louisa on a few months ago to talk about her renovation project because

I'm very impressed with the way they are patient and they just work through what they're doing and I'm not good at that and this feels like a good lesson to me. So even though I've been really busy, the course hasn't felt like it has in previous years. I haven't been as push, push, push and maybe the results will, you know, not be as good because I haven't been doing that as much.

But it's felt more manageable to me than it has in previous years. And then this project there, it is feeling I am feeling like I'm learning to say I want that to be done one day. Like one day I'd like to get round to that rather than pushing and trying to find people to do it now and get everything done immediately. There's no need for that.

I went to, in the break, a friend of mine passed away and this is the second time, so people will think, well, I'm sure I've heard this before, but it's the second close friend of mine that got diagnosed with cancer and then died really quickly. In this case, within three weeks of diagnosis. And at his funeral,

what was really striking and very moving, it was a really moving funeral. It was a long service with lots of people speaking. And Dave was like the kindest, kindest person you could ever meet. He was really opinionated and bolshie and people would like get their backs up with him sometimes because he was so loud. But if you were in any kind of crisis, Dave was the person who would be there to help you.

And everyone spoke about that at the service and it really brought home like funerals can do that kind of point of life. Like what is the point of life? Sometimes I used to think about Dave because he, he was really into watching telly and going to concerts and seeing films. And I used to be a bit like thinking, yeah, but I'm doing stuff and you're just, you know, watching stuff. But,

He lived a really happy and full and engaged life where he moved a lot of people and made a difference to a lot of people's lives. And in the end, isn't that what it's all about? Not how many things you achieved. It really, really made a big impact on me. So that combined with this project in Cumbria, which is a forced slowdown because there are three of us working on a giant project and only so much can get done.

I feel a little bit more gentle now than I have in the past. Do you think that that is inevitable after a certain stage? I mean, what I mean by that is,

It was really interesting. So through August in the membership, we have just group calls for people who are at different stages of what I call the artist's path. So more beginners up to the people who've been doing it longer. And it was really noticeable how when we got to the more kind of established stage, there was this sense of relaxation there.

desire to really check back in again and I think you have to do that all the way through but what do I really want to be spending my time on what's actually important to me in this and I think it's very it's easy to say yeah this is what I want from my life now and I've done a lot of striving in the past and you know now I want to change things and live a little bit differently and I

That striving stage can be really exciting. And I think that there's a time and a place where it's really valuable.

Yes, for sure. Because you can't, I don't think you can get to the relaxed stage unless you've done the striving and had some success. Okay. But are we just saying that because we've both had a stage where we've been striving and now we're relaxed because there are people out there who can just be relaxed. They don't need to do this. That's true. Yeah, that's true. Actually. I know a couple of people like that. Not many, but yes.

Yes, that's true. Certainly for me, I know I couldn't have got to that without having had some success, you know, in our own little amount of success that we've had. It feels like enough for me. For me also, there is a physical, an awareness of physical limitations which weren't there before. Yeah.

And this project has brought that home to me as well. I was up there for a couple of days on my own doing decorating and I was really tired out from the decorating and then my dog keeps escaping. And so I had to barricade him in. I had to make like ways to barricade him in.

And I kept, I walked around the property. The previous owners left a lot of junk, which we are tidying up. So there's a lot of things like broken old doors and things lying around. So I walked around looking for stuff to barricade and then I'd pick it up and think, I can't carry that. Okay. What about this? No, I can't carry that. And it was really quite sobering to think, first of all, I need to do some muscle work. Secondly,

Things I could have done 10 years ago, I don't do as well now. And that's just the reality of getting older. There is a slowing down, I think, which you can, if you're really in shape, I'm sure there are people who can fight against that. But I'm not horribly out of shape, but I'm also not great. And I just have to be more aware that I have less energy. So I need to save it and spend it

wisely. And also, as a human design manifesto, I've learned that I used to push through all that, but actually, I do have energetic bursts and times when I have no energy. So I've got to go with the energetic pushes and then relax a bit when I don't have the energy to go. Yeah. That thing you said about working all day without eating.

that's the generator thing i don't have that i might get a couple of hours of that and then yeah then i need to stop and i think it's important to say like the difference in the difference in that and this this it shouldn't surprise me anymore should it but the difference in that and like i say this is a project that i have wanted to do i know i've needed to do i've been excited to do

but I haven't had the particular focus or the desire to do. And then suddenly it just struck and I just thought, oh, just open it up, have a little tweak and a play. And I'm working with two other people on it and they don't listen to the podcast, but oh my God, I must be the most annoying person to work with because we had a meeting yesterday with one of them and she just said, can you just give me like a clear idea

outline like a guide of what you want me to do. And I said, I genuinely can't because until I'm in there seeing it coming into shape,

seeing it happen. Like I can't tell you like a list of graphics to do and still until I'm doing four graphics and then I'm dropping it in and then I'm seeing how they look and then I'm going back and modifying it and then I'm dropping them in and then I'm getting an idea of how I want to reorder those sections. And I can't delegate that to somebody else.

but when I hit that fire within me of, oh, this is something I really want to do. Honestly, that 12 hours, I was absolutely, I was tired at the end of it, but in a really happy worn out, oh my gosh, this thing is actually going now and it feels really good. And I'm excited about it in a very different way to, oh, I've got to sit down and I'm going to be doing this for 12 hours. Honestly, I had no clue that that's,

Like literally when I woke up that morning, that was not my plan for the day. Yeah. I think this summer it's really come home to me that I have learned to trust my ability to bounce quite happily between different things. It's not about having finite energy levels. I don't feel in the like the tiniest bit burnt out. And yet I have been in the studio almost every day.

I have done all of that work and I feel like I've been reading. Everything feels like it's all going in the right direction and it really feels good. Yeah. It feels good after a sluggish time where it didn't feel very good.

Yeah, isn't that interesting that we have to get used to both because I keep thinking back to maybe a year ago when you were really frustrated and saying, I don't think I'm even an artist anymore. I haven't done anything for a long time.

And we all have those times. Everybody, I'm sure. I think most people have those times where you're just not painting and you think, God, maybe it's gone. Like, maybe that's it. And I have my time doing that. And now I'm going to do something else. And then something sparks it and it comes back.

But as you say, for me as well, it's really important for it to be things I want to do. And I used to feel bad about that. I used to feel, well, you should just be getting on with whatever it is, not just what you want to do. Now, that sounds really privileged, doesn't it? And it is in a way, because we've both gone through times when you had to do what you didn't want to do.

in order to get this, you know, you have to build a website when you maybe don't want to, because if you want to sell your art, what you've got to do, you have to go to an art fair or make contacts with people. I just, I'm very aware that it sounds like we're going, oh, we just float around doing whatever we want and it's lovely. And it's not quite that. No, apart from it occurred to me the other day that I have been working

I had, I think, two years when I was employed and I have been self-employed ever since then at various things. I've never been in a job apart from those first two years. And I think it's interesting looking back now how I made choices to create that kind of life that did give me the flexibility to.

to do different things and to take on different projects and to do projects at home, which benefited everybody as a family. While it's very privileged to say, oh, yeah, I'm doing what I want to do, I can do all of the things that I need to do because ultimately I'm doing what I want to do. So all that building a website thing, I could have chosen to pay somebody else to do that at that point. I didn't because I didn't have the money. And

I wanted to figure it out myself as well. Yeah, I mean, I had many years of not doing what I wanted, you know, working for other people, because I had to make a living. And I didn't know you could make a living doing your own thing, you know, 20 or whatever. So I just got jobs and I strived to get to the top of those jobs. And I did very well and got to the top of those jobs and then hated it. The bottom jobs were always more fun than the top jobs.

Always. Like working as a sales assistant in HMV was my best ever job. Selling records and listening to music and chatting to people who love music and everything after that. But now, I suppose that makes me really feel privileged now. And then I was self-employed for a long time, but self-employed at something that was a struggle. And I didn't really love. I quite liked parts of it, but I never really loved it. Yeah.

Now to be self-employed at something you love. And I find myself moaning, like my accountant wants invoices for the last few months for that. And I'm like, I hate those days when I have to sit and do invoices.

But how spoiled is that? Oh, you know, once every few months I have to have a day doing something I don't really like. I heard Laura Horne's podcast and she was talking about this. She had to do her accounts and her husband was like, suck it up. You know, you get to do what you want nearly every day. And I was feeling a bit like that about that. So, yeah, there is. So there is a lot of privilege to it, but it only comes from working really hard as well.

the fact that you can choose. And I think what I've learned and you too is you're more successful when you do what you love to do. - I just think you have more energy to get you over all the hiccups. Like there are always bits that like, aren't like the best fun bits in the world. - Yeah. - If your ultimate direction,

And it is at least going in the right direction. I heard something really interesting the other day. I can't remember the guy's name, but he was talking about dopamine and I was listening to it because I haven't been on social media as much.

I think that's also part of what feels a bit freer. But the point you were saying, and they were talking about the difference between a dopamine release that's like not good for us. Like so addiction to social media because we get that quick hit alcohol, sugar, alcohol triggers a lot of things, alcohol, sugar.

porn, not sex, porn, basically anything that gives you a quick hit without having to work for it. And it gives you the dopamine rush without your body's kind of building desire for it. And that's part of the problem. And it's a little bit like

You know, if you're eating too much and you can burn your body out by creating too much insulin with eating too much sugar, which is what leads to diabetes, you know, and then it's like, okay, right. Enough of this. The same is true for dopamine. So if you get too much of the wrong type of stimulated dopamine, you don't get it in the right way. And so they were saying, okay, but what is the right way? And he's saying, well, anything that has involved a bit of effort,

Social media is too easy. You pick up your phone, you swipe, you're looking for the next stimulation. You don't have to do anything. Whereas anything that involves effort and input that is growing towards something that you want will give you a dopamine release in the right way. So even things like getting up, making your bed, cleaning your teeth, you get a little, oh, I've done it. Mm-hmm.

Oh, a little, not like a massive hit, but oh, I've little done it. And then you can get on with your day, having kickstarted it a little bit the right way. And what he was saying was, you would expect if you imagine a marathon runner, that their biggest sense of achievement and reward was when?

you would expect it when they get to the finish line but I bet it's not it's not it's it's about yeah no it's it's while they're doing the race

Not in the bit. So they have a bit in the build up. But when they're doing the race, when they get to the point where they're nearly at the finishing line. Yeah. At about 24, 25 miles and they know then they're within touching distance, they're nearly there. That's when it's highest. And actually, when they get over the finishing line, they have a bit of a they have that drop.

And it's just so fascinating if you think how much we do as artists, we're building towards something. You're building towards completing a picture or generating a body of work and you're building towards the show. And we talk a lot about like,

I see it a lot and I recognize it a lot in me. You build towards an event. And if you're doing an event in person, you've got you keeping yourself on a high and then you have a bit of a crash at the end. And I know now to build in time for that.

But this thing about working towards something and having things that you can achieve and having those little highs just before you achieve them. And he was saying, that's it. That's the key to happiness. Have something that you're working towards because it's in the growth as you're working towards it that actually you end up feeling best.

That's really interesting because last week, because of this funeral and there's been a lot of illness and a lot of death in my life in the last few years, not to bring everyone down, but I have these really low times lately. It's just difficult. And what I found is just exactly what you're saying. Like I've got a little routine now when I feel like that, right? Cleaning everything up so the kitchen is thick and sparkling.

because that makes me feel better. Then like if I'm up there, go out and clean out the chickens coop thing and make that all nice for them. Then go for a walk so that the things I'm doing are taking some effort and they're giving a result, which is from what it sounds like, that's my little dopamine hit of now I look at the chicken coop and it's all clean and nice. Or now I go into the kitchen and it feels warm and homely and clean. That

it lifts up my spirits and before long I've forgotten that I woke up feeling so down. Whereas it's very easy in those situations to do things which spiral you down.

to go well i'll eat some cake and then i'll sit and have a cry and then i'll go and you know later on i'll have a drink of wine and then like all these things would be the wrong dopamine hits from what you said because those would be the things which didn't involve any effort and which just gave you the quick hit and then you feel worse the next day so and like you say with painting

So for you, with this working towards this show, was that your experience that now they're done, is that the least fun part? I think it's been really interesting doing this work because alongside this learning that I've been doing about nervous system and how we work with our nervous system, and there's a lot of talk about regulating your nervous system, which implies that we need to be consistent

And we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't, and we can't be consistent. We're always going to have these ups and downs where we kind of flow into a kind of sparked activated zone. And we need that. We need that for the energy, for the momentum. And then we need to kind of come down off it a little bit. And then we need to bring ourselves back up again.

But without getting to those either those peaks and troughs or swinging between those peaks and troughs erratically without missing that part in the middle where actually you do feel calm and rested and and even and looked after. And that happens at different cycles. So throughout the day.

We need all of that. And I think I've just been so much more conscious of making sure that I have spaces in my day where I give myself that rest.

So rather than just going from one active thing, like go to the studio, OK, I'm going to you, then I'm leaving and I'm already thinking about what I've got to do when I get home. No, I'm going to come home. I'm going to make sure I have a rest. I enjoy the garden. I read my book for 15 minutes in the middle of the day. And it doesn't have to be stopping. It can be things that actually are just supportive to you in a way that

I mean, it could be connecting and having a conversation with somebody else in your house. And building in those moments mean that I have felt less highs and lows. I've had highs in the moments of painting. I haven't had at all, oh, this is all going to be disastrous. This is going to pot. I haven't had that feeling at all about it. I've had ones that like, oh, this one's not really working so much. Never mind, I'll work on that more tomorrow. Mm-hmm.

And you get that high when you do something that's a bit unexpected and it works out better than you wanted or something that you had an idea for and it's worked out how you wanted and you think, oh, it's all coming together. Yeah. Like that's happened and it's just built more gradually, I think. And I think just that moment I had, I had a bit the other day where I was doing, you know, when you have those days where you're making all the changes that nobody else would really notice, but you notice. I didn't.

I did that and then I was standing at one point in the middle of the studio with with paint on my brush and I was looking around I was thinking there is nowhere for this paint to go. Nowhere it needs to go now I think we are done, you know, and I think that that probably just before that was probably the peak of the high, and now I'm on a.

slows you know on a slide down the mountain in the getting it all ready and you know now we're into that okay everything needs to be photographed and catalogued and

which is not as much fun as making the paintings. - No. - It's not. - And this is, you know, when you get newer people, people new to painting and they say, how do you sell things when you've made something you love? How do you get rid of it? I think we had that question on the podcast once, and we've talked about this before, but once you're used to the ability to keep making things

you don't care you just want to get like go away now go have a new home go you know I'm done with you because the experience was the making yeah it really is that it sounds cliched and it sounds unbelievable when you're starting out that you wouldn't feel like clinging on to something good that you made but you've done it the and for me I think the really exciting part is that bit

at the beginning when you realize, oh, I've got something to pursue. I've got something, I've got an idea or an inkling of an idea or a theme or something that I want to go investigate. And I was doing a question and answer last night on my membership group. And quite a lot of people's questions, I had the same answer. And I felt like a parrot. And I hope they don't think I was fobbing them off. But my answer was,

that's your job now to go find that out they were like well i want to um one person was i want to start using natural dyes organic things from nature um what i forgot to be aware of and what i forgot to learn and what you know what will work and what won't and it's like no that's your thing now for the next year or however long is you have to go figure that out with experiments and research and talking to people and

Because that is the job of an artist. That's what we're here for. If we were to say, like, I'm really interested at the moment in working with just two complementary colours and black and white. Yeah. If I was to say to someone, what's the best combination of complementary colours to do what I want? And also, which colours would you mix from it? And also, how would you apply them? That's like, no, that's my job now. Also, even if they told you the answer, would you listen?

No, because if they told me that, that would be their answer. It wouldn't be my answer. I've got to find, even when what we're trying to do was being done a gazillion, I mean, you know, it's not like I'm the first painter to go, I wonder what would happen if I used two complementary colours and nothing else. No, and I often wonder that, like, you know, in those moments where you think, is what we're doing completely pointless, right? Yeah.

You know, it's all been done before. Abstract art has all been worked out before. Everybody's done paintings like this before. Nothing I make is unique. No, but it's unique to you, right? It's your personal figuring it out that is the bit that I think keeps us coming back to more and is the important part about it. And I think it's just getting to that point. And very often, I think asking all of the questions

They're just a foil, aren't they, really, for putting off the starting. It's almost like another form of procrastination. Like you want to be given a surety that you're doing things the right way. And actually, you know... And a shortcut. People will sometimes say, well, I'm just looking for a shortcut because I'm getting on a bit and I don't want to waste time.

But that's the entire point of doing it is the figuring out. Once someone gives you the answer and you go make the thing, now what? Now you've got to find another thing to go figure out. But for some reason, when we're starting out, and I'm sure I was the same way, we feel like finished paintings are what it's all about. And

And how do I get there as quick as possible? How do I get people? How as quickly as possible do I get people to say, wow, she's amazing. Look at that brilliant artwork that she's making and buy it off me and praise me and make me feel special. How do I get that as soon as possible? And once you realize that that isn't rewarding really in the way you think it's going to be, then you realize it's the other stuff that matters. Yeah.

Yeah, I'll be really interested when I get these photos. I'm just at that stage, that stage where you think, OK, they're all done. I'm kind of happy with them because I'm excited about the journey I've been on with them. But I showed one to Paul yesterday on my phone and he kind of looked at it and went, hmm. Then when he saw it this morning, he was like, oh, yeah, it's better in the flesh. It's better when you actually see it. And I was like, OK, good.

But that feeling, like I feel that I've done, I've definitely done different things in this body of work. So it feels, yeah, it feels, yeah, like that. I don't know. What's the word for that? Just like there's a little bit of apprehension. There's a little bit of, you know, is it, is it good enough? Is it what other people are going to want? And actually there's less of me that cares about that now. Yeah.

And the thing is, if you were looking at it going, yep, feel totally confident and comfortable with these, everybody's going to love these, I know, you wouldn't be happy because that would mean you've done the same thing as before and you know it's going to fly. And you've always been searching for something new every time you paint. So you're always going to feel a little bit like, ooh, this isn't new, this is different.

To the extent that I almost feel like anything that I've got that's older work, I just need to like, it just needs to go, just be gone. And because all I want to do now is see where this slightly new approach takes me. I don't know. Yeah, I was thinking about that for storage for the new workshop and studio space. And I thought, do I need storage for my own paintings? Like, do I need to keep...

I don't really want, I don't keep old things. I'm not bothered. So same as you, I will never store loads and loads of old things. I might store them for a little while and then I'll be fed up of it and then it'll go.

It all gets handed down and used again or put on a bonfire or something to make room for what else is coming. It's a bit like when you declutter your house and suddenly you feel fresh energy come in. Yep. Because all that stuff's gone. When we hang on to stuff...

We're hanging on to old paintings because we think there's only so many I'm going to make and I need to hang on to any good ones. It's like a neediness it feels like to me. I've got a couple that feel for some reason important to me. Yeah, me too. But not like all of my old stuff stacked up. Oh, that feels awful. Yeah. It's like Miss Havisham sitting in a room covered in cobwebs with all my old things around me.

It's funny, though, because it goes back to like right at the beginning, isn't it? Is it ultimately like what's satisfying in this? It is a project of creating something new. Always doesn't matter, does it? Whether it's tidying up a field with a tractor or something.

that it's going to be so satisfying when i look at that well it's going to be very satisfying the first time is it going to be satisfying when you think i've got to go and do the field again and it's the same grass that's got the same length and actually you know the first time will be very satisfying but is that not going to be a little bit like doing the washing hopefully i'll always have someone who'll want to drive the tractor and field and cut the grass for me that's what i'm hoping

Even if they have to get paid money for it. Yeah. I'm just thinking of doing it in a pinch if I have to. I'm not planning to be the prime tractor driver. It's kind of like hoovering a house, but on a massive scale, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it's quite nice to do, but if you had to do it every day. Once it becomes a chore. This is the game, isn't it really? How to do things like if you can turn everything, even stuff that's a chore into a little bit of a game.

I mean, you could put an audio book on in the tractor and make it a learning experience. You could. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, we're probably wrapped up then, aren't we? I think we're done. Yeah, I'm going to be away. Are you going somewhere nice? We are going to Seville and Cadiz. Nice.

and having a little bit of city explore and then a little bit of time by the coast. I'm trying to have a little bit of summer because quite frankly we've just been so let down. I don't know if this has been as bad in the south but I've just come back from a grim week of wind, rain, late August and it's just we had that storm come through and it just was awful. The sun's just coming out. I'm actually getting sun in my eyes right now. That's a shocking development. That's a good sign.

But yeah, having a nice bit of summer would be nice for you. We've had some nice days. Actually, this morning we had a beautiful, great big dragonfly trapped in the kitchen. Don't know where he came from. Beautiful. Dragonfly? No. With their long legs. Not daddy long legs.

yeah but they've still got long legs haven't they yeah but they've got lovely big wings oh lovely yeah i love things with big wings that's great i'm really scared of flying things i really don't have you seen that list of there's a list that's going around instagram which is what are you scared of clowns height you know wasps a whole load of things yeah

I'm scared of wasps, spiders, any insect. No. My only thing that I don't like is thousands and thousands of ants. Too many things to count all moving at once. I don't like that very much. And I get that stomach lurch on heights. We've had this conversation about roller coasters before. I would do roller coasters any day.

On that note, on that bombshell, we will leave you for another week. Oh, well, actually, we'll leave you for a few weeks. It's going to be off for a little bit. Probably. We'll be back when we're back. Yeah. So there's still time if you want to join Louise's Find Your Joy taster, you can go and you can find her. Go to louisefletcherart.com is the website where you'll be able to follow Louise.

And you can find us both on Instagram. Louise is at Louise Fletcher underscore art. And I am at Alice Sheridan studio. And you never know, I might post a few things with finished paintings in once I get them photographed. Nice to see. Yeah. All right. Bye.