Spurs and Manchester United have success in Europa League | Chelsea close in on final!
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Welcome to Back Pages, bringing you everything you need to know about the biggest sports stories, making the headlines in the morning's newspapers. I'm David Garrido and joining me are Jonathan, new sports writer for The Guardian and Ian Ladyman, football editor for The Daily Mail. Welcome along to you both. Well, it's clear that we have to start with

The European Football of the Night in the Europa League and in the Conference League. Semi-final first legs with decent results for all of the English sides involved. We've got to start with Manchester United and a 3-0 win, Ian, in Bilbao, where of course the Europa League final will be held against Athletic Club. Did you see this one coming?

No, of course not. I didn't see them winning 3-0. I thought the way they've progressed in this competition with the mixture of kind of fortitude, good football and a little bit of good fortune probably stood them in good stead ahead of this game. I did think they'd come through the tie. Didn't think they'd win 3-0, not in Bilbao. I know that people at Manchester United were concerned about that game, how much the opposition would be desperate to get to a final which will be in that stadium. So, no, absolutely.

A dream result, a dream result. Gives them a chance to win the Europa League and, of course, get their hands on all that beautiful Champions League money, which would be so important to them this summer. Jonathan, in the Telegraph, they are calling it a statement win. And, of course, all the damage done in the first half. Is that the best 45 minutes of football we've seen under Ruben Amrim? Yeah, possibly. I mean, I think it's...

A statement win is about right. I mean, you can't... I mean, Ian, right, nobody saw that coming. Athletic have the best defence in La Liga this season, better than Barcelona, better than Atletico, better than Real. I think a lot of people expected a much tighter... Certainly a much tighter first leg than we saw. And, yeah, I mean, I think it has... You just have to take your hat off to a performance like that. I think, you know...

They got a little bit lucky maybe with the red card, which I think just totally knocked Athletic off their stride. I think it's their fifth...

red card this season in all competitions and every single time it's cost them. I think Valverde's system at Athletic, it's so physically demanding, it's so systematized and meticulous where everybody basically has to muck in with defense and attack that if you take a player out of it, it does have the tendency to fall apart. So they do get lucky from that aspect, but the way that they capitalized on that, the way that they seize the moment and obviously,

Bruno with those two goals in the first half, they had chances in the second half, I think, to get a fourth that would have really put the seal on it. But to be honest, I think this tie is already over. Ian, I have to ask you about Bruno Fernandes because, of course, when we've spoken previously on this show, you've mentioned that he is your pick for Player of the Season. You're feeling a bit smug with yourself now?

No, I've been in this industry too long to ever feel smug, because as soon as you feel smug, then there's another opinion that you express that will come back to haunt you. But no, I did say it, I wrote it last week in my column, I said it on this programme last week, he is my pick for Play of the Year, he is my vote for the FWA Play of the Year, won't go into all the details of it again, but it's

because of the way that he has managed to keep his levels high, playing for a really, really poor side. I've said, I'm repeating myself, it's always easier to play well if you play in a good team. It's a lot harder to play well in a poor team.

He keeps doing it. I did have a few messages from people tonight saying, oh, I see your mate scored again. He's had another impactful night. That is all that I can say. And if take him out of that team and well, I'm not sure they've got a team, frankly.

Send him a little smiley face emoji on WhatsApp. I'm sure he'll appreciate it. In the sun, top of the bill, Ruben and Sepp for Spain. Of course, we mentioned it before, Bilbao will be hosting the Europa League final. Jonathan, I think, you know, we've got the situation now with both of the teams, and we'll talk about Spurs in a minute, in very commanding positions in their respective semi-final ties. It does look like an All-English final is on. Between the teams that are currently lying 14th and 16th,

in the Premier League. I mean, is there a situation here where maybe they might target the Europa League and prioritise the Europa League because actually it's easier to qualify for the Europa League by winning it than it is by finishing top four or five in the Premier League? Well, I mean, maybe it's turned out that way. The way the second half of the season has gone...

Obviously, their chances of finishing in one of the European places, that probably went in about February, March. Spurs, clearly even earlier in the season. I think their league season was pretty much over by Christmas if you take for granted that they weren't going to get relegated. So that's the way it's turned out. I don't know if that's what teams are going to start doing from the outset because you remember, it's a 36-team competition. It's an incredibly Byzantine league competition.

league format, then going into playoffs, then going, you know, and we've heard this argument before where the team should target Europa League. It's a really, really tough competition to win. There are some really top teams across Europe in that competition. You have to adapt across an eight month season. You need to have some luck with form, with injuries, with a bounce of a ball, with refereeing decisions, with penalties often at times. So, you know, I think United and Spurs have both had really, really poor league seasons and

that is not a reason for them to, you know, it might be a reason for them to concentrate on the Europa League this season, but it's not a reason for them to take their foot off the gas next season. And, you know, the other thing I would say just quickly is that it is a little bit of a shame, I think, that this competition has almost become kind of a second... I know it's a secondary competition, but the narrative has almost been taken over by, oh, is this necessary for Ange to keep his job? Is this necessary for United to get the Champions League money? And, you know, obviously these are

These are natural instincts for big clubs. But I think when a competition isn't sufficiently worth winning in its own right, then I think you have to start asking the questions. Yeah, what's your thought on what Jonathan's just said there? Ian, do you agree?

I certainly agree with the first part of what you said. It is a really difficult competition to win. It really is for all the reasons that you just articulated there. I think it does have merit in its own right. I don't, by the way, think that clubs will start targeting winning the Europa League ahead of performing well in the Premier League. I think that's going to lead you down a cul-de-sac from which you'll never return.

But I do have a view. I do have a view on the carrot that UEFA dangle at teams in the Europa League, which of course is if you win it, you get access to the Champions League and all that, the money that I referred to earlier. This is a really unpopular opinion. I don't know anybody who agrees with me. Certainly nobody on my Twitter feed does. I don't think that winning the Europa League should get you into the Champions League. It's

simply because, well, for two reasons. Traditionally, Champions League, previously the European Cup, has always rewarded performance in the league. That's what it's always rewarded. That's what it's about. That's why it's called the Champions League. The Europa League is a worthy competition in its own right, always has been in its previous incarnations, but it is a competition for very good teams rather than the elite teams. And I don't see why a team...

that wins a competition that comprises good teams should therefore be granted access to a competition that contains elite teams. To me, it doesn't make sense. I don't be good to Manchester United or Tottenham. If they do it, they'll have earned the victory, they'll have earned the trophy, and like I say, they'll get the Champions League money that comes with it. That would then give us six teams, six Premier League teams in the Champions League next season. That's almost a third...

of the Premier League and the Champions League don't know how that sits with me either but there you go those are UEFA's rules and we'll happily go along with it if it means that we get extra spots

Bow wow, you can see the headline there in the mirror. Ruthless United reign in Spain to put one foot in Europa final. Jonathan, I'm now going to put what Ian has said to you. Are you going to be the only person on Twitter or in the entire world to agree with him about Europa League? Winning it shouldn't result in getting to the Champions League?

He's almost convinced me. I mean, he's a very persuasive man. He always has been. I would say it'd be an interesting experiment, I think. The one thing I would add to that is that the teams that have come through winning the Europa League into the Champions League...

Eintracht Frankfurt, Villarreal, Sevilla, obviously the primary example, have not pulled up any trees in the Champions League. Does that suggest that winning the Europa League in itself should be a sufficient qualification to get into Europe's primary club competition? I think it's a point that could be argued. I pay tribute to Ian for sticking his neck out and making it

All right, let's move on to Tottenham, shall we? The final countdown is the headline in The Times. And yeah, the picture is there, Bruno Fernandes, and quite literally leading by example. Here he is, leading his players in celebration. But Tottenham, 3-1, the final score at home to Bodo Glimt. But let's consider the good before we consider the not so good, Jonathan. Where do you feel this, again, we had a very...

So, unlike Ange's performance in the second leg against Eintracht Frankfurt, again, was this sort of similar elements of control about it, the quality and the control? A little bit, yeah. I think... I didn't see the stats at full time, but I think for most of the game, Bodo were actually...

They had most of the possession, about 60% of the possession, and yet had very few chances, very little penetration. Spurs were not afraid to play it long at times. They obviously, again, they got a little bit lucky with the penalty. And I think they were in control of the game for the first half. And then what happens in the second half is it's kind of weird. It's almost like they...

They lose a little bit of intensity. And I don't know whether that's a physical thing. I don't know whether that's a mental thing. I don't know whether that's Bodo settling into the game and kind of working out their tactical plan a little bit better. But the penetration from Spurs and the cutting edge and the killer instinct just isn't there. And I think that is the part that is going to rankle because I think it can be slightly overdone how hard a play is.

Bodo is to go. It's not exactly going to be sub-zero temperatures in May, but it is a tough place. They are much better at home. They are much better in front of their home crowd on their artificial pitch. And I think Spurs would probably have preferred a little bit more of a cushion going into that. 3-0 probably makes it safe. You make them strong favourites. 3-1 and...

For a club as susceptible to nerves and apprehension as Spurs in big games, I don't think that is a done deal in the slightest. Yeah, it's a compelling way of adding sort of just more doubt, isn't it? I mean, Ian, how do you see it? And also just

And you mentioned it before, Jonathan, but we need to discuss it in the context of Ange Postakoglu. Because we always have this Ange lens on every single moment and every single goal, every single match that Spurs play right now. And it just adds that little nagging doubt again, that goal they conceded and of course the injuries they suffered.

I mean, look, it would be the classic Spurs script, wouldn't it? If that goal that Jonathan refers to at the end of tonight's game costs them next week and they end up going out in some kind of helter-skelter kind of basketball-type game over there and lose like 5-4 or something stupid, you can kind of see it.

because that's the type of thing that happens to Hans-Poster Koglu's Tottenham. I hope it doesn't happen, but I agree. 3-0 felt comfortable. 3-1 doesn't. Can one goal make that kind of difference? Yes, it can. In terms of his future, I was told about a month ago that winning or not...

the Europa League wouldn't be the determining factor. The decision on Postacoglu's future will be made on the body of work over the last two years. That's absolutely right. Manchester United fell into that trap with Eric Ten Haag when they won the FA Cup. I know that last season, I know there were other reasons for keeping him, the fact they couldn't persuade anybody else to come, for example, but it was a factor and it cost them. And I don't think Tottenham and Daniel Levy should fall into that trap. As harsh as it sounds,

You look at his body of work, you decide whether he's the man for you, the way you want to go, the way you want to play, and you make your decision. And that means if you win the Europa League and then you part company, then so be it. That's the way to run a business, I think.

Ian, can I ask you about your column and your chat with Graham Potter currently enduring a little bit of a tough time of it, as we said, at West Ham United. Just unpack that. The relevance, of course, in terms of relating that to Tottenham is that they're their next opponents in the Premier League.

Yeah, they play each other on Sunday. I'm a fan of Graham Potter and I have been since he was in Sweden and obviously came through to do well at Brighton. I've always found him a very kind of intelligent, level and talented football coach, a guy who manages to keep things in perspective. And just watching him since he's been at West Ham, particularly that press conference that he gave after his team threw away a 2-1 lead at Brighton last week. Some of those press conferences, I just kind of see a guy at the moment that I don't really recognise.

I see a guy who looks a little bit as though the walls are caving in around him, although he seems very... He looks like he wants to take on the world a little bit. Seems to be taking umbrage with questions that are asked of him. I understand the pressure of not winning football matches, of course.

Graham isn't the first manager to struggle in a post-match press conference and we shouldn't judge managers on that solely. However, at the moment, I feel like I'm seeing a different manager and I just wonder whether he's carrying a little bit of the baggage or a few of the scars of

that he admits he, you know, he was inflicted by that sacking at Chelsea, whether he's carrying a little bit of that into this job at West Ham. I really hope he's not. I hope he can shake it off. I think if he has a good summer with a decent pre-season, gets a couple of players that he wants, I know they'll have to sell a couple for financial, for play reasons. I think if he gets the squad he wants, he'll have a chance. But I just hope that when I see him, watch his team play, listen to him talk,

I see a little bit of the Graham Potter that I recognised and admired so much when he was at Brighton. And in your paper, Ian, Premier Power is the headline because it wasn't just Tottenham and Manchester United with decent wins in Europe, but also Chelsea. And to be expected, given the quality of their parents, by four goals to one, Jonathan and Nico Jackson with a couple of confidence-boosting goals, I'm sure, and contrasting goals too. Ty Dunne in your book?

Yeah, yeah, obviously. I mean, it's, I think it's funny this season with Chelsea in the Conference League, I think we've been saying, we've been continually saying, okay, well, that

that was easy, but the tests are going to get tougher from here on in. Okay, that, you know, Elijah Walsall, that was easy, but, you know, the semi-final, they're going to get a proper, they're going to get a proper game soon. And I still think they're going to get a proper game, like Betis or Fiorentina in the other semi-final. I think that ties pretty finely poised. They probably will give Chelsea a game in the final, but they haven't, they haven't really had that test yet. And, you know, to the extent that it's almost kind of,

Chelsea have made a little bit of a mockery of the competition this season. You get these smaller European teams for whom this is their...

This is their big European night out, and Chelsea are putting out a second-string side. I think tonight they brought on, was it Caicedo, Jackson, Cole Palmer, Chalaba at halftime, which is basically bringing on the Avengers to settle basically a garden fence dispute. And fair play to dual garden. It was a great atmosphere. It's an incredible occasion for them, but they are playing in a game that is...

you could have rigged against them almost. Chelsea just have so much more firepower than most of the teams in this competition. And it has begun to make a little bit of a mockery of it.

Right, we're going to switch focus and talk about a story in The Telegraph. Victory for women's sport as football joins trans ban. Keir Starmer, the Prime Minister, backs FA's decision after Supreme Court verdict. So transgender women are to be banned from playing women's football, cricket and netball in England following the Supreme Court ruling on single sex spaces. Jonathan, your thoughts on this story, given that now, you know, it has been a decision that has been taken.

by the FA, so the major sport and the governing body in this country? Yeah, I think it was expected. I think following the Supreme Court decision, I think a lot of governing bodies are going to go the same way. I think the ECB are going to do the same in cricket soon. And I think, you know, that was...

That's the way the prevailing political current is going. I spent today at Lourdes, I spent today where they were launching the ICCs. The ICC and the ECB were launching the 2026 Women's T20 World Cup. And there were a lot of incredible voices in the room and a really inspiring discussion about women's sport, how to grow women's sport, how to support women's sport, how to protect women's sport, how to sell it.

And they were great ideas. They were very inspiring speakers, Malala Yousafzai and Vanessa Williams and Red Roses and players from the current England team. Nobody was talking about testosterone. Nobody was talking about chromosomes. Nobody was talking about the moral panic of changing rooms and swab tests and whatever. Because this was never about protecting women's sport. This is because certain members of the political class and the media get a kick out of punching down on some of

the most marginalised people in our society. That's why this is at the top of the agenda. The number of transgender footballers in women's football in this country is small, tiny, a handful, pitiful number. Why is there such a moral panic? Because certain people have put it to the top of the agenda.

You know, very few of the people, none of the people that I see making a big noise about this were at Laws today to talk about the future of women's sport, because it never was about women's sport. You know, if you talk to people in grassroots women's football, there is not a huge clamour in the grassroots women's football community for any kind of measure that's heavy handed. It's using the full power of the law and the media.

and political opinion to punch down. And I think a lot of people get a bit of a sick kick out of it. OK, thank you for that, Jonathan. Ian, just welcome your take on this story and also what Jonathan's just said.

Yeah, look, firstly, it's an incredibly difficult situation, I think, that the FA have found themselves into. We've got to remind ourselves what the FA are about and what they're really for. You know, we think about the FA Cup, we think about the national team, but the FA aren't. That's not what the FA is.

The FA has a responsibility, a desire, a need, an obligation to provide opportunity for us all to play football. That's what the FA is. That's what they're about. Whoever we are, whoever we are, wherever we come from, etc.,

whatever biological sex, however we identify. So they found themselves a very difficult situation. I think they've been backed into a corner a little bit by the Supreme Court ruling. Some people may say that it's given them an excuse to do what they wanted. I don't know about that, but I certainly find themselves backed into, I think they find themselves backed into a corner by the Supreme Court. I do think as Jonathan's alluded to that other sports will now follow, whether

without a doubt. And I will say, it might not make me very popular with Jonathan, I don't know, but I will say certainly not coming at this as a journalist, but as a father of a daughter who likes to play football, though at the moment only in the back garden, is that I do have a concern as a parent about

her safety on a football field and her fairness on a football field. And I think that voice has to be heard as well. And I think, you know, I don't apologise for feeling uncertain about that and for feeling uncomfortable about that. And I think a lot of people probably feel the same way. But the upshot of this is that I don't have a solution.

I like to have firm opinions, I like to offer solutions, I like to offer ideas. I don't know if I have a solution to this problem because I go back to what I said at the start, the FA do have an obligation to provide an opportunity for us all to play the game that we love. It's very difficult. Yeah, listen, I appreciate and you acknowledge this, that this is an incredibly difficult subject.

to talk about both from a professional point of view as a journalist and also, you know, other roles that you have. But I really appreciate your candour and your opinions and your insights because that's why you're on this show. Let's... We've only got literally, you know, a minute or so, Jen, so very quickly, if you can, on Nottingham Forest losing 2-0 to Brentford in the Premier League. And, Jonathan, ultimately, you know, this is... It's a sad demise for Nuno Espirito Santo and Forest because they were, you know, the story of the Premier League, weren't they? And now they may not make the Champions League.

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't rule them out yet, but I think it looks like the deepest squads in Manchester City and Chelsea and to a lesser extent Newcastle are going to pit them to the fifth place in the Champions League. I think it's a small squad. It's a compact squad. It's a pretty tight system. And I think maybe they've just run out of legs a little bit and mentally as much as physically as the season's gone on.