Dr. Rhonda Patrick: Diet Essentials For Healthy Living
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I did my posc training and nutrition and specifically looking at micro nutrient. So these are about forty or so essential vitamins and minerals. And these micrometer tints are running our metabolism.

They're running. Everything are neurotransmitters ors that we're producing. So our cognition, just absolutely everything that is going on in our body. So when you think about the micro neutrons that you need in your diet, IT makes IT a little bit easier to think about what you should be eating.

Welcome to the knowledge project to podcast about mastering the best of what other people have already fit out so you can apply their insights to your life. I'm your host. Shame perish.

If you're listening to this, you're missing out if you'd like access to the podcast before everyone else, special episodes just for you, hand edited transcripts or you just want to support to show you love, join that fs p blog slash membership, check out the show notes filling. Today, my guest is round to Patrick, a research scientist with expertise in the areas of aging, cancer and nutrition. I first came across her work years ago in a front of line, sent me this meth article SHE posted online on the benefits of a sona.

In fact, this is the reason I started to sa. Our main focus on this conversation is less little habits that reduce biological aging, improve health span and improve our cognition. We cover a framework for approaching nutrition and decisions of a food, as well as a deep dive into vitamin d, sun, sunscreen and hot exposure. It's time to listen, add, learn.

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I, you know, I kind of have my own framework for approaching nutrition in, and that IT has a lot to do with. No, I did my postdoc training and nutrition, and specifically looking at micro nutrient. So these are about forty years.

So essential vitamin minerals that fatty asis also and minus is that we have to get from our diet. Those are in a variety of foods in different foods, have different levels and quantity ties of them. And these micrometers ants are running our metabolism.

They're running. Everything are neurotransmitters ors that we're producing. So our cognition, just absolutely everything that is going on in our boys. So it's important to get them because if we don't get them, we can have deficiencies or insufficiencies, which is quite worse because insufficiencies are kind of something that you don't notice every day.

But there's like insidious types of damage is happening each and every day and IT accumulates over time and plays a role in age related diseases like cancer and marriage general disease. So these are micro neutrons are things like, you know calcium, magnesium, write in k, write in d, which i'm sure we will talk about, is actually something you can mostly get from the sun, uh, oh, make you three. And so when you think about the micrometres that you need in your diet, IT makes IT a little bit easier to think about what you should be eating.

Well, let's start with, like some of the most common deficiencies in micro nutrient, we have uh, magnesium. So almost half of the U. S.

Population, they get insufficient magnesium intake. Magnesium is is at the center of a core phil molecule. So core file makes plant, gives plants their Green color.

So it's really easy to think about foods you should eat to get magnesium, you should be eating Greens, particularly dark leafy Greens. Well, Greens are also very high in vitamin k and vitamin k one. There's two form, vitamin k 1。 But I mean k one is essential for all your blood cotting processes.

So you like in order to like have your blood clotting, which is important. You know, if you have a cut or something, you know an injury, you want that clouding to happen so that you don't have like a merage, right? So varian k is also you know high in levi Greens.

You can also get calcium as well from Greens. So that's a really an easy way to kind of think about Greens. But the other way, the other thing is omega trees, right?

So omega three es are very high in fatty fish, so this would be wild. The last in salmon or cod, or macro series like these are good forms fish that the marine types of mega three. So that would be D H A, N E P A. Those are very important for a lot of functions, including brain health and cardigan klar health. And a lot of work has been done by bill Harris in his group at the fat acid research institute.

And um they they look at omega, the omega 3 index， which is the way you can actually quantify your omelet levels and that's really good to be able to quantify something because if you don't quantify IT, you don't really know if you are getting enough of IT, right? So the magic index is they're characterizing IT from red blood cells, which is different than a lot of other ways of measuring omega. Like for example, plasm omega three, which is basically kind of reflective of your dietary.

And take the last week or so, the red blood cell or the omega three index is more of a long term status. So it's like a hundred and twenty days for a red lid elea turnover. So the megory index is a good marker of your own megory status.

People that have a high omega 3 index， and that would be eight percent or more, have a five year increased life expectancy compared to people with a lower omega index, which is more like four percent. Now people in the united states, on average, have about, and I go through index of about five percent. And you compare that tip, for example, countries like japan, where they eat a lot of seafood there, omega three index is around ten percent.

There's been times of studies looking at omega three index and life expectancy. And there's been also like data where they satisfy like looking at, you know, for example, and this I like talking about this because I think IT really puts in perspective is the framework of nutrition and thinking about instead of focusing on what to avoid, focusing on what you need, because if you focus on what you need, then it's obvious what you don't need, right? There's no nutritional value in process foods.

You're not getting micro nutrient, you're getting calories, you're not getting protein, you're not getting things that you need. So um smoking is something that everyone knows is bad. You should avoid smoking right? It's you know heart disease, cancer, gonna have a decrease, life expectancy emphasize and all kinds of problems, right?

What bill Harris group had done has they looked at life expectancy of smokers and non smokers, and then they categorized their omega 3 index。 And if you look at this data, it's just mind blowing. So obviously, non smokers that have a high omega 3 index of eight percent of more have the highest life expectancy。 And the lowest life expectancy is smokers with a low omega y index.

So there is like that, the worst of the worst. But when you look at smokers with a high omega index, they have, they have the same life expectancy as nine smokers with a low omega index. In other words, having low omega three or having a low and omega dex was like smoking and when I say you look the life expectancy, if you look at the graph in the publication, the curves like overlay perfectly, it's kind of freeh where you're like, wow, like the people that are smoking, but they're getting a lot of meg three have the same like life expectancy.

These people that don't smoke but have very low meg three and that kind of like I I like talking about because I feel like IT puts IT in perspective for people because like I said, no one's really thinking about i'm not eating my fish today. I'm not supplementing with an omega supplement to get that those omega you know but people are thinking about I couldn't smoke because it's back, right? So again, I goes back to that framework of thinking about what you need.

And in starting there um I supposed to like just like, okay, what should I avoided? Because when you think about which should I avoided, then you're not like people are not thinking about magnesium. They're not thinking about you know the vitamin k.

They're not thinking about to make three. And by the way, magnesium, I said about half half the population in the united states doesn't get enough. They're not eating enough Greens.

And unfortunately, there's not a great test for magnesium because our body stores magnesium in our bones. And so anytime we're not getting enough in our diet, everybody pulls IT out of our bones to like because we need IT. It's so important you needed to make energy.

Like without magnesium you can't make energy, so nothing's gna function. You also is needed to repair damage like every time you have, you know like right now, you and I D were having a conversation where, you know, newer transmittals are firing. We're thinking about things like that causing the image.

Meta lisp, all that self causes the image on a daily basis. But our body repairs that damage. But magnesium is a co factor for these enzymes. These are proteins that are doing everything for that to function properly.

And so if you don't get enough of that magnesium to do that, what happens if you don't repair that gammage properly? And that can increase the risk of getting a mutation that can lead to cancer. And I spent found that, for example, for every one hundred, you know, milligram increased magnetic take, there's something like a twenty percent decrease in pencore tic cancer risk.

And there's been lots of studies like this looking at magnesium intake in cancer risk. And so the higher the magnesium intake, the lower the cancer risk. So again, it's one of those things where you can't look in the mire and go as you're brushing your teeth.

Oh, I don't have enough magnesium today, right? Like nothin like showing you that, but it's happening that damages in CD s and I mentioned you pulled IT out of your bone, like it's pulled out of your bones. And that's another thing.

IT leads to osteoporosis over time. So remembering to eat your leafy Greens is getting your magnesium. So so women need about its era, three hundred and twenty milligrams a day.

Adult women need about three hundred and twenty milligrams a day of magnetic sim. Men need around four hundred and twenty milligrams a day. This can change based on your your physical activity level as well.

So like if you're yser ally active, if you're sweating, you sweat out magnetic, you also use IT up for energy. So you might actually require anywhere between ten percent, twenty percent more then that level. So what's call the recommended daily allowance in the united states? So you know again, and people aren't even reading that. So there's lots of reasons to invest in, you know, these micro nutrients and to think about the foods that you need to eat.

I have so many questions. One is, is the difference between consuming magnesium and a megory through food like leef y gres or fish and supplement. Yes.

let's start with magnesium. M A magnesium, if you're consuming IT in the form of leafy Greens on IT is IT is bound to a is the fiber matrix that's called fighte and that does decrease the bio availability of IT. You can do raw, but also cooking them will increase the by availability of minerals like magnesium and IT is good.

You want to a kind of get a variety of things, you want to have some raw edges, but you also want to have cooked. And when you cook a IT IT does actually increase the bioavailable of not just magnesium um other minerals as well that are bound to that that fiber matrix that um which has fighting there supplementals also kind of tRicky with respective magnesium because you don't really absorb more. I mean, it's about one hundred, I would say anywhere between hundred and twenty to one hundred and fifty milligrams purchase.

Like once you get above that, you're not really absorbing more. You're just kind of causing more gi distress and it's a little bit of like a laced of effect. So some people actually use IT specifically for that reason.

So they do hire do generally speaking, if you are supplementing with magnesium, you want to make sure you're going at a lower dose because you're not really going to absorb more and she's going to cause like got issues. If you want to supplement with more than just one hundred and fifty, you have to spread your doses out. You know, take IT earlier with the meal, then take IT later in the day as well.

The other thing is that when you're getting IT from food, IT is packaged in with other minerals. And there are there's some argument to be made that having, for example, there's like you know twice as much calcium as magnesium in in a lot of the foods. And so you're getting this two to one ratio.

And so um you know there's kind of a reason for that. I wouldn't say it's been heavily studied, but it's thought that you might want to keep that ratio correct, like two to one calcium to magnesium ratio. So if you're just like supplementing with lots of magnesium and let's say you don't get enough, maybe you don't eat dairy or maybe you're luctus and tolerant, maybe you just not getting enough calcium, you can kind of have mineral imbaLances as well.

And then there's the form that you're onna supplement with, right? So there's a lot of different magnesium supplements out there. The most important difference when you're looking for a magnesium supplement is to avoid the what's called the inorganic forms.

And this isn't like organic pesticide. What we're talking about is so like a magnesium oxide or magnesium. So fate like they're just not very by available like you're not going to absorb as much from those.

But if you get like the organic form, so this would be something that has like an organic molecule. So magnesium centrate, magnesium mallet, magnesium glinted, magnesium tate, these are all forms of magnesium that are relatively the same in terms of their bio availability. I personally like taking magnesium glinted because glacee is like a form of glycines, which is a inhibitor, y neurotransmitter or and so I like getting a little bit extra licence. There's like there's some science behind you know glassing perhaps being beneficial and supplementing with IT. Just I think that's the main thing with respective magnesium supplementation is, is that the forms do kind of matter and the dose and what .

put the omega trees is IT. Can I just go to the store? I'm not going to eat a lot of fashion and buy an omega three supplement. And or is fish the primary way that we actually get bio availability from that? Yeah that's .

also a great question. IT really does obviously depend on um a quite a few factors. So with respect to the seafood and fish, the type of fish does matter, right? So like you need like they're some fish like that's just not that fatty.

The omega E P A N D H A are the marine forms of the omega 3。 Those are the ones I was talking about with. You make a three index and life expectation ency.

Those are the form that have been used and randomize control trials with supplementation that of decreased cardiovascular events by like twenty five percent compared to play. bill. There are the ones that are important there. There are only in the really oil fatty fish.

So one of the best forms is salmon, and wild salmon has higher levels, then farmed, for example, while the last king salmon by one of the best samon to to consume for omega three um IT also has asked is ann is what gives the fish that pink color? If you are eating quite a lot of fish, you'd have to really get a mega and next test to know for sure how much you require. But I would say probably like at least you you're eating at four times a week, something like that which most people do not do in japan.

They do in their own megatron ics is very high, like I don't even know many japanese supplement. They're just they eat seafood like every death. The other thing to consider is, well, what type of fish that we talked about, oiled and fatty fish, but also you went to look at contaminants like larger fish, have things like pcbs and mercury because they're eating smaller fish.

So IT things accumulate in their fat. So like you don't want to eat sort fish, for example, this is the mercury, and sort fish is just through the roof, right? So it's really like the trade off there isn't very good.

So again, that's where salmon comes into the picture because it's very low in mercury is high to make through three smaller fish of ardini to be another one. Again, there's a lot of da out there that you can look up like usda has all this like contamination, mercury levels versus or make a three. So that stuff is easy for people to find.

I would say buying large, the easiest way to get a high omega index. And these studies have been done randomised control trials. People give supplement, supplement forms of mega three is definitely to supplement. And visual supplements. Generally speaking, if you're taking around two grams a day of official supplement, that is enough to raise someone from a four percent omi a three index, which is the low end to 8 eight percent， or make a 3 index， which is the high end.

You obviously want to make sure you're getting enough of the E, P, A, N, D, H, A, those two important make s, and you want to make sure you are not getting a high contaminant level like mercury, pcbs. But the other thing to keep in mind, as you do want a low oxidation level, so a magistrate assets are pruned to oxidation just because they're molecular structure to polyunsaturated ated fat asset. And so the way people uh companies and you know are manufacturing the fish ale matters.

So um some good third party testing sites to look at. I would say i'm consumer labs is one that's really there. They go and just go to grocery stores and where people are generally going and buying their supplements and they just measure and test all this stuff.

And there there are some really affordable brands that have decent omega three levels, D H N E P A levels and low, low contaminant levels and consumer, you know, test all those. So that would be a good site to go to, to find good omega supplement. Another one is the international fish oil standard site ifs.

Those are for the data nerds, to be honest, because there's like a lot more data there. And if you're like into this stuff and you want to like really big because they just give you everything like all the data like you can imagine um that a great site for people that are sort of no dba on that. But for some people are like, I just wants to know my grocery store.

What do I get that consumer labs a great option. It's like it's broken down in a way that like a child could even understand. Okay, this is the one I want to buy IT.

Is there a difference between wild and a non wild, I guess, or captive or factory firm, whatever you want to call the farm to fish in terms of the neutral density that we're pulling out of them?

You know there is a difference. I mean the the wild salmon, they are out there in the ocean and they're eating this like you, and all the things that they're supposed to eat like that, the eat right in the the farm salmon. I you know correct.

I am pretty sure there's there's some there's some feeding of stuff that's like not even I mean, we're talking like corn and stuff too. Yeah, if you were to look at the fish uh before in the factories before they inject IT with astm, then they look out by now because they are lack because they don't need all the right things. So they're not naturally pink, I said in jack, but i'm not sure maybe they actually just give IT assistance and they eat IT, I forgot, but they are giving IT exogenous.

As to that, IT does have the pink color. The omega content was also hired in the wild salmon. So again, to your question, yes, there is a difference between the farmed salmon and the wild salmon.

But you know sometimes when you are out at a restaurant like you're not going to get they're not gna get the wild salmon is is at the end of the world, in my opinion. Now like I said, choose ATS. I still think you're still are getting on mega is just getting D H J N E P A. It's not like it's terrible, but I do think it's preferable if you are getting .

the wild tamon and you mentioned organic, is there difference between organic and inorganic August? But in organic, in the sense of being non ordinary produce, why would we choose one over another? And what differences that make from a composition or bio availability point of view.

So pesticide um are obviously something that are are used now in agriculture because where least farms are huge and were growing mass quantities of foods. And so there's spring things that all wore off insects. So insecticides or pesticides es are known and also fungicides and other things to prevent fungus and anything that's going to destroy the crop, right? A lot of these types of pesticides are obviously damaging to the insects.

But um to humans, the question as well, are they damaging to humans? You know there were a lot, especially things like rote known paraquat. These were used for a long time. And those are, those are chemicals that actually cause we we use, the scientists use them.

I've used IT myself in the lab to induce parkinson in like symptoms in animals, because IT disrupts your midon ra, which are the their little organ als, inside of almost all of yours cells, and that are producing energy super important. And in parkins's disease, the the contrary, and your neurons kind of become dsf unctions. And you can do, you can cause this by just giving them this, this pesticide paraca.

Or I remember it's fun. I remember the first time I I was learning about this. This was actually even before I was in graduates school. But also in graduate school was like, oh, i'm putting this stuff you know to to give IT to to a mouse to study you know, parkinson or to induce a parkinson like human sort of model of parkinson's. And this was I put on our protos.

And like that was like really kind of upsetting to think about their spent studies, even on the newer types of pesticides that are used on produce. You know, there have been studies that have shown there are probably not good to have on a daily basis because of that insidious damage that they are causing. And I get know people are probably inking of a good glp right? Round up is a big one as well.

When IT comes to those pesticides that are used, there are, there are certain vegetables and fruits that a very thin skin that absorbs. So even if you washed the vegetable office are even absorbed ed through this skin. And so, like, let's talk about an ovoid versus a strawberry, right? Like is is so important to eat organic for avocados? Not really.

It's got a really fix. Can strawberry, on the other hand, have a very thin skin, you know? And so that would be something that you want to choose organic.

I would say that, yes, organic would be the best choice. If you can't always afford organic, then choose okay, bananas is that is so important, probably is oranges, probably apples. yes.

So right. Thin skin. And there's like again, there's like a list out there that like will list the things that are like, okay, if you're going to not to organic, here's the one. Here's the vegetables and fruits that are the safest .

tonight I I love the I mean the dirty dozen list, but it's actually more practical to remember the thickness of the skin is sort of like the barrier the member in between d and you, how do you wash your produce and and like and I say this having seen, I think last night on instagram, you know some a guy putting baking soda vinca and like soaking IT for twenty minutes and like, is that how you wash products? Like how do you wash products to like, get stuff over?

What do you do? I just sees water. I just see water and wash because I do buy organic as well.

So you're thinking about pesticide. You like, oh well, I don't want to get parkinsons cities or cancer right is causing damage. But so my mental per sams um he's you know now ninety six years old.

How many years ago was IT IT must have been back in the eighties. He had done some experiments with a he method gist from his lab, and they were looking at what happens if you don't get enough full late. So that's what another one of the essential Michael neutrons so you have to get from your diet.

Guess what? Leave your Greens are one of the best words of full late. So leafy Greens are are just they're packed with certain micrometer trians, but they don't have a lot of protein, right?

So full late again, we have to get from our diet. And if we don't get enough full late IT actually causes damage to our DNA much more than eating a pesticide ward because fully is required to make new DNA. We're constantly making new cells in our body.

And if you don't have that fully, the precursor to make one of the nuclear type of DNA isn't going to be there until your boy's substitute something else in there that's from R. N. A.

That's not supposed to be there. And IT causes DNA damage. And he had done these studies where IT was like, he took animals, put them on a low for light diet, similar to what some people in the united states get.

And then he took the other group of animals, and he, he irradiated them with ionizing radiation. Okay, this is like, yeah, you're going to want to avoid this, right? And the fault deficiency was like, I ized radiation.

IT did the exact same thing that caused double strand breaks in DNA, exactly like the ionizing radiation. So not getting that important micro neurogen from your leef e Greens full late was like being getting missing radiation. So again, back to that theme that we started with thinking about what you need is so important.

And we're sitting you're talking about pesticides or we should avoid them, yes. But guess what's worse, if you don't need the Greens, you're not going to get a li fully. So important. It's you know it's it's in every processed they put the oxidized form of a folic acid. It's kind of one of those things was like, oh, it's it's another form of a fully and um IT is more more stable, which is why it's used um in processes rather than fully. But uh IT is not the exact same as full late is preferable if you're gonna get the full late from your diet from leafy Greens.

Yeah, let's come back to sort of the framework for approaching this. And so we've talked about micrometres. It's a little bit let's talk about mro. So I mean.

so you're talking about all these micro neutrino and I was like vegetables was a big thing we're talking about, right? But we had on the mega series and that was fish protein is, you know, I mean, no AIDS or something that we need to get from our diet every day, much like we store glucose as black agen and our liver and our muscles, we store fat like triglyphs outpost issue, we don't really store.

And we know assets, although our muscle, skeletal muscle, is kind of a reserve for them. And during periods of fasting or low protein intake, we pull from our muscle to get aman of us because they are essential to survive. And what does that mean? That means you're pulling important protein from your muscle, and that does cause muscle atrophy.

So you want to avoid that, right? And so in order to help avoid that, all these regulatory committees had come up with, let's figure out how much protein people need to take in every single day to avoid those losses, right? And so studies were done many, many years ago, and that number came up to be zero point eight grams of protein per kilogram of body weight is what was the recommended daily allowance for protein intake.

Fast four decades. You know, you've got all this new science and new technology that come out in new ways of measuring things. And you know, any scientists will tell you that your data is only as sensitive as the tools that you are using. Okay, data from experts like doctors toward phillips and others, they started to you look into how you measure protein losses and we know acid losses and and turns out that the studies that we're done decade to go were using tools that were they're basically underestimate the losses of a massage IT.

Turns out using new technique, is that a more sensitive that in order to just prevent your body from, like, pulling from, you know, your skeletal muscle to get him to acids, the minimum of matter protein needed to take in is actually one point two grams per killer gram body weight, which is higher than the zero point eight grams per hilo gram body weight. right? And they also did some studies looking at what what if you're physically active for, right your you're causing damage to your muscle.

You're using a lot of energy, I mean lots of things going on. Um that number goes up to one point six grams of protein for hilo gram body. Wait, this was a big eye opener for me a couple of years ago when I talked to to doctor phillips and started looking in reading his research because I always thought people were getting enough protein.

And turns out a lot of people are not getting enough protein because they're not getting that, at least at one point, two grams for kilograms, you know, body weight, very minimum, that I think is you have to think about, okay, well, where do I get my protein? Meat is of animal meat, probably the best sources because essential minos is are very highly concentrated in poetry and me fish. Um if you're a vegetarian or a vegan, you just have to really work really hard and supplement with protein powder instead. The kind of get that amos ID composition up is is all sort .

of like animal protein the same like I imagine you need the complete set of sort of a mino assets for to be the most bio available in your body. I don't know what i'm talking about here, obviously, but is there like a big difference between steak and chicken and sort of other sources of protein that we typically think of?

There are differences with respect to their their micro neutral profiles. Steak has a lot more iron, for example, you know there's a lot of zinc and like shelf sh like oyster. So with respect to just the essential minos is you know like getting them from those any of those sources is pretty good with respectful like protein, you will find that they're like per counts of food that you're eating.

Maybe there's like a little bit more in like denser in meat than fish or something like that. But there there are there settle differences between them, but also just in the whole micronutrient and profile itself. But with respect to the essential of me, know as is like if you trying to hit that one point two to one point six grams a day, I mean one point six grams per kilogram body way, that's very important.

That's is a lot of protein.

is is actually a really lot of protein, especially for people are physically active. Why is that so important? Well, like if you are consistently pulling, you mean the masses from your muscle.

It's like pulling from your retirement fun early, right? Like because our our muscle mass peak is probably, I would say, anywhere between twenty or thirty years old. This when we like peak muscle mass after thirty, as you get into forty, you start going down.

You wanna try to build up that muscle mass reserve our earlier in life, kind of like you do what your retirement fighting, right? Like you want to build IT up because you're gonna pulling from IT no matter what, even if you're working out later in life, you're still gonna pulling from IT because you just lose more muscle mass and strength. Uh, this is part of the aging process.

And so the the more you can kind of counter that with resistant training, with making sure you're getting enough protein, then the Better off you're gonna be. If you didn't do IT earlier in life, it's never too late like that something also, tilly, keep in mind, like, don't give up, I go. I'm already fifty.

It's too late for me no, because like you can you can get gains in muscle mass and really actually great gains and strength, particularly with resistance training. A protein intake is one easy thing. Like a lot of people like elder, like our parents, like not everyone's exercising right.

They're not doing resistance training. And so get that protein antic becomes even more important at that that point. And something also that you might find interesting shame is that we're talking about omega three es.

So there's some work from Christmas glory. He had basically done some research I have found, or make IT hide, do some mega trees could prevent this use atrophy. So like when people are older, they are not using their muscles a lot.

And when you're not using your muscles a lot, and you're certainly not getting that protein, you start to act for even more, right? But if there was, like if he gave a hindu, so in a three, so this was like four grants a day, four to five grams a day. IT totally prevented this.

Use a trophy. They did the study in Younger adults, in Younger females. But IT was like fifty percent less.

He's done some other studies and mechanism and looking into IT and he thinks that what's happening is omega trees are sensitizing your skeletons muscle to a mino acids. In other words, it's you're getting more amino acid into the man. You're getting more bank for your book. So more acid are getting in when you have the omega is there because I omega three are really important for the the skeletal muscle like membrane and stuff. And so might be easier just to get .

the nutrient in. I want to like start using this in in a practical. Right, right.

Like, so if I want to make a smoothly in the morning, what is the best thing to put in my body at the start of the day after having slept, which means i've been fasting? What is like the most incredible smoothly you can think of that would just be full of health benefits for the day. So would have like a megory IT would have protein powder had like leaf. I walk me through this.

What did do you do this? I do smooth IT IT doesn't have a megory, but I walk you through my, my, my mom that I do. I probably about forty five days a week, have this smoothly.

Typically this smoothly is about and four or so co leaves. And that's usually my Green source that I use. And so i'm getting the magnesium, i'm getting the vitamin k, i'm getting the full eight, but i'm also getting something.

And they are called routine. And the anthem, which is, these are kraut noise, much like Better to carine or asana, like we are talking about, is another one that accumulates in the eye, rose and coins of the eyes. So that helps prevent maule degeneration.

But IT accumulates in the brain as well. And so interesting because there's been studies that have shown that giving older adult like supplementing with something like twenty migs, which is what like three k lives haas of routine IT, improves neural efficiency. So so basically like your brain works Better with less energy.

There's been other studies and older adults were giving them routine. And the island then will improve Crystalize intelligence so that basically as you get older, it's the ability to still kind of use all the information that you've learned throughout your life and like still use IT. Um so so that's the kale IT also has fiber right fibers, great for your gut.

I also add an avoid to and avocado also increases the bio availability of those craw annoy is the routine and ziemann by leg up to six fold anywhere between like three to six, four. You're getting more of the routine and jizan, then you're basically making them more by you available by adding the avocado. Also, it's a great source of mono and saturated fat.

Avocados are high in paci um something like ninety six percent of the U. S. Population doesn't get enough patashie. And then I add a ton of frozen blueberries um and blueberries are yes, you're getting your body and see and you're getting some fermentation fiber for the gut, but they're also high in the fight chemicals so they have Polly feels in them and they have antisthenes. They're like superpowers for the brain.

So there's been been so many studies that have been done randomized control trials either with freeze dried blustery extract or actually blueberries showing IT improves cognition yeah IT improves mood. When I was a postdoc, I did some studies in people. We were looking at freestyle blueberry powder.

I was looking at DNA damage, their blood cells. So markers of those double stranded breaks I talked about, like, if you don't get enough full late IT causes double stranded breaks. People that are people that are eating terrible diets and that are, you know overweight, obese, have more double stranded breaks in their their blood cells.

So that's something that i've measured. We were getting a population to people that were overweight, obese, and then giving them this free dried bu blueberry extract, and over the course of four, eight weeks, IT lower their DNA damage. Personally, it's like, what I noticed is like the mood enhance our it's like I get that blueberry and it's like, wow, I used to add bananas to my my smoothly years and years ago.

It's not that bananas are bad for you, but they have this enzyme called police fund oxidize ppo. Well, as the name implies, IT breaks down the finals, which is what you want from the blueberries to get the benefits in the brain and the benefit, exactly. There is a very, very recent study in twenty twenty three they came out and this was a control trial where people were given a smoothly with blue ries, either within without the banana and then metabolites.

Ts of policy als were measured in their their urine and blood, and if they had the banana, their policy al levels were just plummeted like they weren't getting him from the blue eyries. And this is i'll tell you, what's arranging about IT is anywhere you go, like if you want to buy a smooth when you're out and about everything has has banana IT. And you know like i'm apparent and so I like you know what I mount about and I have my my kid with me and it's like I want to get a smoothly and IT has deliberations and IT and unlike but I also as a banana and unlike but you know there's been studies on children as well and giving children blueberries improve their their cognition so they perform Better on like tests.

You know it's not just good for adults. It's like throughout the lifespan. And so now I have to like tell them, okay, don't put the banana but like everywhere you go, there's a banana is so that is .

i'm going to give you my smoothly versy after and you can create up, but i'm going to switch out the banana starting tomorrow, okay? So we have kal leafs avoca, frozen blueberry and protein powder.

So powder, especially if i'm doing IT like you said first thing, the morning when i'm and sometimes i'll have my smoothly in the afternoon, in which case, like if I didn't work out and I board got on my protein, like I won't put the protein powder. But these days I mostly always putting them to be honest and like doing something every day. And so and I just is hard to get the protein requirement for me.

So I usually do um some way protein. And then I also add a little bit hydro zed college in powder as well. If you're getting the protein, you probably don't need the hydro zed college and powder.

But I personally the study showing that analyzed control trial showing that, that improves like skin elasticity and you know things that are also interested in addition and with respective skin. I mean, there's all sorts of studies also showing that helps with joint health and this and that. And then the other thing I add is I do a little bit of marine a powder.

So mariner, it's high in some micrometer trans. I IT has things like zen and iron and magnesium, but IT also has something in IT that is called minging. And IT is a final chemical that is very similar to so far fae, which is found in like brockley brockley spouts.

It's really high. Broccoli sprouts and IT activates genetic pathways in our body. The same ones that sulfur in activates, that have been shown to increase anti oxidation in the brain, like laugh, that have been shown to a lower DNA damage in ourselves, all sorts of benefits.

But the other thing that that does, and i've noticed this, so I used to wear a continuous glucose s monitor, like for years IT belongs the postprandial glucose rise from a smoothly when I put miring a powder in IT. And so I put that in my movie as well. Now that so a little spicy taste, I would say if you're like in one of those moves where you don't want to like like not so great tasting smoothly, you know, you can skip the marine, go go for a smaller amount. But I do like a big heaping tables soon a bit.

just like a liquid. Oh.

and then I add some water. Yes, water OK to kind of mix IT up. That's pretty cool.

I'm going to give you my smoothly you can give me an a great on this and keep your mind. I am a parent uh, of two boys who devour food so we came up with this and i've never told anybody the the exact recipe before but here's basically what IT is and we call the tom brady. It's got protein powder in IT.

It's got A G one. It's got walnuts, it's got blueberry yogurt, omen milk, but like real omen milk, no other additives or anything. Banana cheer seeds and ham seeds yes.

you're going for the the kinder mega three that in those plant sources like walnut and chic is A L A. And um we were talking a lot about the E P A N D H A which are from marine sources. L A.

I mean now walnuts are great. There's like studies showing like if you eat a handful of walnuts today, you you have lower cancer risk and cardio disease. They are clearly good for you. They're not the same as the E P N D H. So don't substitute all type you can.

So your body does convert L A from plant sources of a, make a three into E, P, A, N, D, H, A, which is essentially which you are the final products that you need are, but everybody does IT differently. And the conversion efficiency is about five percent O K. Now women when they're making when they're high and A T R O gen, that can go up really that can go up much tired.

And um I think that because because during pregNancy and child development in neuro, the the D H A is so important that your body make sure you're just turning all the L A into that at that D H A because when you're pregnant, your exercise level, it's like a hundred full higher. It's like super high. If there are people that are relying on just plants forces of omega three, that is a mistake. And if you an omega three index test, and there's know omega quant is probably one of the best places to do that, then you'll you'll figure that out really quick.

Okay, this is great, right? So like what would we supplement here? We take the bananas and because they're counteracting the blueberry, we had had to have a cada. That's a lot of thought in there. What else would we like take out or add or switch?

What would you say? So you you're doing the ag Greens as your source of Green.

I'm doing that is sort of like the bed bed demand because they have a daily multivitamin and and I just count .

that as their daily daily. But what did you add? Any .

Greens? I that I add some sneak some cane leaves in. Oh my god, if they saw that they wouldn't drink IT.

No, do not let them see. Do they have to make IT to be part of this? So I put k libs in my sons, or even romain.

Let us. Here's the other. So there's really not a lot of foods that can go into a smoothly that would degrade the polyphenol because they are high in that.

And I polfa al oxides. But the ones that are, are bananas and beats in anything in that family. So like charred, I used to put chart in my smoothly, like, like swiss chard, you know, like they're so it's so good.

And look, these are great foods to eat. Like just don't put them in your move with blueberry, just not with blueberry. It's exactly um so I I mean I used to put charge in my smooth and like this this like change my world.

I was like this is unbelievable. I can you know, thankfully I stopped doing the banana the equal. In fact, I just kind of just got lazy and I was like, okay, kill. I just knew like a base like, no, I mean thinker li, like years ago. So even though this study just kind of came out last year, I i've head I was sure I knew that .

they're onna blame me for their protest results. Now they are going to be that. So know you send us to school with blueberry and bananas, dad, like what are you thinking?

Are they? Are they physically active? Cardi, arresting tory fitness is another thing that's like equals with academic performance, so like to Better fit the child, is that they score Better on a lot of academic tests as well.

OK, I want to get defined, so I want to cover a sort of grass fed and then heat and called exposure, and then we can die in a fitness. Grasped, non grasped is a difference. I see this everywhere between grasped button, non grasped button, grasped beef, non grasp beef. Is there a difference from a consumer point of view? In terms of what i'm interesting.

there are slight differences. There are definitely. So we were just talking about the omega three profile. So I would say one of the biggest differences is the omega. And then the omega six profile in, let's talk about meat like grass fed cows at a grasped versus not. So what I mean by that is like they're getting that plant source, I will make that L A that plant source of will mega.

They're getting if they are, they're eating like right? They're getting IT from from the plants that they're eating and they are also not getting as much of what would be a type of food that is higher in omega six. So this would be like if there were a being fed corn, for example, a corn or oil ish process kind of like pallets or whatever, you know. Yes, if you're eating, you know, for example, ground b from a just conventional cow, then you're gonna have a lot more of the omega six and less of the omega three. I never thought about this before.

A bit like he just said, like we're not smoothly process foods, but they are eating animals that are eating processed oos.

Yeah again, this goes back to my tag on nutrition and how and thinking about the framework of how to eat. First and foremost, I think the most important thing is, how do I get these important vitamins and minerals and fatty acids? And I mino acids, like protein, how do I get all those right? Okay, i'm getting, i'm getting an idea of how I should be eating.

Then IT comes the next player. Do I need to have organic? Or you know, was a little bit of petite zed OK. Do I need to eat grasped? Or because at the end of the day, who is expensive?

Yeah little more expensive now than years of exactly.

It's even worse now. And so I do think IT is Better .

if you can afford yeah no.

If if not like the the most important thing is what if you're eating conventional me and you're getting a little bit higher? Omega s well, you're supplementing with visual everyday.

Who cares you getting that getting the omega three is what is most important is and people are so focused on, oh, but the omega six is so high when your body actually need to make a so if you're getting IT from like you know, dietary sources versus like oil process, cooking oil and stuff and even that, look, I don't cook with vegetable il. I don't use vegetable il at all. However, i'm gonna Frank.

Okay, when you look at the data, taking people that are eating like a high saturated fat diet, so they are eating more like butter, you know, saturated fat, coconut, and substituting that with vegetables, there's no effect in their cardiovascular seed risk or they do Better. You can look at this two ways. You can say, oh, well, if it's the same saturated fat versus vegetable oil clearly saturated, if that's not as bad as we thought I was, that's true.

But the second way you can look at this is oh, this substitute the saturate of fact, with the vegetable oil and IT wasn't any worse. So maybe the vestibule isn't killing us as bad as we thought. And this is the one thing I like to point out, because I still don't use that because when I think about IT from like my mechanistic brain point of view was like, well, vegetable oils very high in Polly and saturated fat, like we talked about to make a three being the type of a they're prone to oscitation.

And when you add heat into the picture, boom, that's like tons of oxy ation. Perhaps in those studies where there are subsiding saturday for vegetable, where they putting vegetable il on side or were they flying IT deep frying and you know like consuming oxydized pads, like we don't really know it's still Better. You're so Better off avoiding the best, particularly for cooking, like in anything that's with heat to you know.

And then I mean, obviously profess foods have tons of vegetables il, but that have been locked at a high heat when you go out to eat. I mean, like this restaurant are using ratio oil, it's cheaper. They're probably reusing IT, which is even more oxidized, right? I mean, these are things like you don't want to think about, you just never go out and like you have to like .

enjoy life practices ah.

like you can't obsess over everything or like you become like a maniac.

One thing we can all afford is beam in D M. We're all sort of lacking and that walk me through sort of a how we can get that the difference between sunlight and supplementation as well as the effect of sunscreen on our abortion of uh, vamp. And is sunscreen actually killing us more than just being in the sun?

So vitamin d food is not a great source of IT like you can find like it's IT is fortified in some party foods. Unfortunately, it's fortified with the wrong form. It's fortified with d two rather than d three, which is what we make in our our scan from the sun.

The primary source of IT is, as you mention, its from the sun and specifically it's U V B radiation from the sun that is really important because U V B radiation only occurs during certain times of the year in regions where you're more northern. So for example, in canada, you are not making vitamin in D A good you know four, five months out of the year. It's it's very chAllenging to make a lot of item d from being out in the sun some of time.

You know different lots of U V B radiation, right? So you need to be in the sun and you need to be at a certain time of year depending on where you live at all. There's lots of things you mentioned, sunscreen as well. There's a lot of fact s that are that are involved in know the ability to produce vun d three in the skin from the U V B radiation, and that has to do with sunscreen. So anything that blocks out U V B radiation is gna block out the ability to make an in D A million the the pigmentation that is like a sunscreen and natural sunscreen.

And people that some people have, like in some regions of the world that are certainly more equatorial, that is also a natural sunscreen that blocks out U V B radiation, which is why your body responds when you're in the sun, your body hand, because it's like, oh, next time i'm in the sun, I need to protect myself. It's a, it's an adaptation. The other thing that regulate tes, the production of vitamin d three from the sun, is age.

The older you get, the worst of the, the less. I would say, efficient your body is that making vitamin d three from the sun. So for example, of seven year old makes like four times less than they're twenty year old for myself.

Self buy you available of vitamin d three is important as well. And that's regulated by body mass and weight. So so you make vitamin d three in your skin, but IT gets released into your bloodstream, then it's converted into another form that is actually not a vitamin, is a stereo formal.

So vitamin d is actually much more important. It's not just a vitam, it's actually a hormone that our body needs. So so basically the more body fat you have, the less by available vitamin d three is.

And so you you actually need more by the mini three. The more body we, the more body fat that you have. So this hormone is is extremely important because IT is regulating about five percent of the human genome, the protein encoding human genome.

So it's a lot it's doing a lot of things, and you can imagine, so what he does, there's actually little sequence inside of our r DNA. And you know, IT is a little repeat sequence that vitamin in d recognizes, and like the whole complex of item d and a receptor, or goes down in buying that little sequence of DNA. And IT turns on a gene or IT turns off gene.

And IT does IT in a very coordinated manner. And when you don't have enough item in d, that stuff all goes wrong. And and so lots of things can can happen because of sunscreen, because of our modern day lifestyles where inside technology were on our computers, less, less farming, less agricultural work out in the sun.

Majority of people are not getting enough fighting in d three and so on. Something around seventy percent of the U. S.

Population is insufficient. And vitamin three, so that that is defined as having blood levels of vitamin d. Less than thirty anode ms. Per million leader. And then another percentage of the population is deficient, so they would be less than twenty anode .

ms per million leader. But we've been told like not to go outside. We've been told to the layer of the we've been, I mean, are these things getting in the way of, I am dear, they helping us? What how do we make sense of all this?

Let's not like let's get be clear. Like you you if you have you know fair can and you're going out in the sun a lot, then you can increase your risk for DNA damage. And you know skin cancer is one like for example, australia.

Australia is like like the melanoma cancer is like through the roof in australia. And mellon oma is like the worst type of can cancer to get. There's a lot of fair skin people living there and a dress is very close to the equity.

This definitely many months out of the year where you're just slights a lot of uvb radiation, but people that were sort of native to that region had darker skin. They had more melanie. And so.

The solution to people that are more fair skin living in australia is actually sn spring and had an a vitamin d three supplement yeah the the question is where do you find the baLance right? Like how much sun exposure is enough and do I need to supplement? And do I have to wear sunscreen? And I think that all depends on a variety of factor.

Is IT isn't like a one size fits olitic. C okay, well, where do you live? Do you live, you know, in southern california?

Like where I do. Do you live in australia? Ah, do you live in canada?

These are all factors to keep in mind. And then just measuring vitamin levels where my art, then then you can go. Okay, well, clearly I don't wear sung screen.

I don't go out on this on a lot because I indoor work, I work inside a lot. So you know, even without the sunscreen, i'm still like, you know, getting enough fight them in d three. So you have to kind of measure something.

So is that difference like if I go out and buy a vitamin d three supplement, uh, is there a difference between that and the sun? And then do I want to take that with anything I noticed? I think that's lot of Greens includes vami kay with that. Is that for the bioavailable let?

No, it's not for the bio availability, but let's but address your questions because are really great questions. Um differences between sun exposure and supplemental form again um vitamin d three supplemental form which is which is key. So the differences between vitamin d three from the sun versus supplemental yes, there's differences.

So like let's let's say you um you're like and like subsidy a africa where you're like so close the equity and you just you can make five time in deeds, you know three from the sun and you're out in the sun, let's say you like a bushment or something out there all the time. There's been studies set of measure the levels of people that are like aboriginal to these equator regions like bushmen in suborn africa and their natural vitamin d levels or something like anywhere between eighty to one hundred and to grams per mil p. But they don't really go above that.

And the reason is because your body senses like the vitamin d levels and when you're still being exposed to the sun, instead of converting IT into a leg, vitamin d three converted into this other metabolite, it's like it's like, okay, we're we're putting the the brakes on this. We're not gna do anymore. If you're taking a supplement and you don't measure anything like you can, let's say you're taking like an insane number, like there's there's upper limits that have been sort of identified as the safe amount to supplement with written d three every day.

So like the institute medicine in united states, I said that as four thousand I use a day that doesn't mean you can go above that. That is the the safe upper limit where you're not going to have any toxicity effects. But like let's say, you're taking like a hundred thousand I use a day like way over four thousand, right? I mean those natural mechanisms aren't na kick in and that like they do.

And when you you're being exposed to a lot of U V radiation and your bodies, I O, I have enough. I M in d three. I'm going to stop so you can over supplement with item in d three IT is that simple and IT can be toxic.

It's chAllenging to do like you would have to take something like hundred thousand I use now or something a day for like a year. And the biggest effect is um vitamin d three. Can you can make your calcium more by available.

So we're talking about by availability of other minerals. Calcium is much more by available in the presence of vitamin d. You absorb about forty percent more, calum, from your diet if you have adequate levels of vitamin d.

One concern as well. If I have a lot of I am in d and i'm taking calcium, then maybe i'm going to get hyper calcium a right, too much calcium in the bloodstream. There are studies that have shown exceedingly hyo.

S is that you have to do for a long time to get that, but that is the concern with with taking too much vitamin d three is that you're onna get too much calcium in your blood, which can have acute toxic the effects, but also long term effects with classification of, you know, your arteries and your baccus system, because calcium can form a precipitate really easy. That's that's the concern. And then you mentioned your athletic Greens, so they put vitamin k two in there, which is how I mentioned vitamin k 1n， which is found in leafy Greens.

And it's both involved in blood regulation. So claud, when you taking your Greens, you make you're getting the vitamin k one IT goes to deliver and IT activites. All those regulation proteins blot for blood clotting.

When you get enough of that from the Greens IT IT stays in circulation, and IT does exactly what kind of in katy does, which is activate proteins that involved in shuttle calcium out of your bicycle system and bringing IT to your bones, bringing IT to your muscle, where you want calcium to be, not in your basket lar system or a can former precipitate and then apply. But I want to mention one other thing, as you disable by your availability and its related and IT has to do with magnesium. We are talking about it's a co factor for enzymes like DNA repair.

I didn't talk about a really important one. It's it's actually a co factor for both enzymes that convert vitamin d three into the circulating form of a vitamin d that we go when we measures called twenty five hydrox Y Y M M D and then eventually into the active steroid hormone. And so there's been studies showing that people that don't get enough magnesium, even if they are getting enough I M D, even if they're supplementing with IT, they won't convert IT into the still hormone is a hormone on that we need.

As I mentioned, half of the U. S. Population doesn't get enough magnesium. So if you're not getting that magnesium, that's a problem. So something like athletic Greens does have magnesium. And and I think but also if you're doing Greens, right, that's a really good source of magnetic as well. So you wants to make sure you have your magnesium covered, especially for the vain d as well, because they work together, you need them both.

Let's switch gerson talk about A A framework for approaching a deliberate heat and possibly deliberate cold exposure.

deliberate heat exposure.

And when we say deliberate heat, it's really, you know, you're you're going into a hot environment, right? So you're you're going to do something like a hot sa uh steam room, a hot bath, something that is either the ambient temperature of the room is elevated or the the water and your bodies like you know emerged in the water, right? What is that doing? Well, that is actually kicking on, uh, physiological response that is in in many ways very similar to moderate intensity eroded c exercise because when you are when you are exposed to this deliberate heat exposure, when you are exposed to the ambient, you know increases in temperature, you're elevating your core body temperature, which is what happening with physical activity.

Your heart rate increases, your plastic flow increases, um you struck volume increases. All these things that are happening during physical exercise are happening during this deliberate heat exposure. And so there's like there's a somewhat of A, I would say, mimicking effect of moderate intensity arab c exercise. And there is actually been studies that have compared that had to head. So they've looked at being on a stationary cycle doing, you know not not anything crazy but like a hundred and twenty watts and then comparing that to sitting in a sauna for twenty minutes to doing each of those for twenty minutes.

And they were comparable in terms of heart rate elevation during the physical activity or during the heat exposure, um the changes in blood pressure during the activity and then the improvements after so blood pressure improved after the stationary cycling, blood pressure improved after the deliberate heat exposure, heart rate resting heart rate improved after the estates ary cycling and resting heart rate improved after the delivery. He expressed, certainly is important for people that are disabled people that can't go for a run or a jog or even get on a bike. But it's also important for the population, I think, of people that won't get on a bike or go for a run or they would rather just feel like they're sitting in a SPA.

And um at the very least, or maybe people that are so adada SE, there are people are so adverse to Carry basic exercise that if you can just get them in to a sona and we can talk about parameters in a minute, but like if you can get them into something that sort of at least making the moderate intensity cardy basics le exercise, and they're getting those those adaptations as cardigan al adaptations that they would get with at least a little mild to moderate intensity exercise. That's gona be beneficial in in the long run as well. And then it's also beneficial for people that are physically active.

You, mike, well, why is that? So being physically active like being a robic react of doing a robic exercise, one of the the best benefits is IT improves what's called cardio respiratory itns. That's probably one of the I would say, one of the best biomarkers of lung chevy like like concrete things that you can measured.

It's measured by by a measuring something called vo 2 max is the maximum out of oxide you can take in during maximum exercise。 Cardiff asic exercise improves that particularly you're doing a high intensity um exercise training, things that are like high intensity interval training for examples, one of the best ways to improve IT, especially if you are doing longer intervals of like at least a minute. So they're spent two types of studies, observation data looking at people that just routinely exercise, or people that routinely exercise and do the sona.

And then they they measured these there. There is measurements of cardio respiratory fitness. And IT was pretty clear that people that routinely exercised and routinely did the sona had, I bet her Carter respiratory for ness than people that only routinely exercise.

In other words, there was a benefit to do sona on top of the exercise, right? And then there's spent intervention studies where it's like OK. We gna take people, woman, exercise, work out.

I think that was the decision ary bike. And then right after that exercise work out, they're either gonna just do pass a recover, they're onna go into aznar and recover for fifteen minutes. I forgot how many weeks IT was something like on the water four weeks or something like that.

They measured cardiac iata fitness in a variety of other biomarkers, like lip is like L, D, L, total cholesterol, blood pressure, things like that. While there was improvements obviously with exercise, the ones that did exercise plus zsa had an even greater improvement in the cardy respiratory fitness. So their b to max was improved even more than exercise alone. They also had greater improvements in blood pressure and greater improvements in their list numbers and things like that. So there was every reason to add delivery heat exposure on top of exercise as well.

You're the reason I have assa. I think I first came across your work and you have this like seventy page website on the benefits of a sona. And I remember like skiing the first like three pages of IT going I really need a and so you're the reason I have a sona. But when we say doing the sona, like what what does that mean in terms of temperature, in terms of duration? Is a hot tub the same as the sa talk to .

me as so a lot of the studies that have been done on saana have come out of finland, where are using finish us, which are generally speaking, IT. IT would be what I would call lic. It's it's a regular sona where you have like an electric or with some rocks that are hot.

I'm in in finland, they often use water and they pour on the hot rocks. And so there is a humidity aspect there, anybody anywhere between ten and twenty percent humidity. So a lot of the observation studies and intervention studies showing, like I just mentioned, one about B A T M max improvements, blood pressure improvements there.

They're done in finland. And a lot of those parameters use generally speaking, or you know regular sonus, about hundred and seventy five degrees fair and high and ten to twenty percent humidity. The average time spent in the sana is about twenty minutes.

For the for the benefits to really be, I would say, that robust and then that there's frequency right to like how often do you do IT? And so they're been a variety of studies that have looked at all cause mortality. So so so you know dying early from all causes that are non accidental.

And then looking at cardiovascular related mall mortality, like dying from a heart attack, for example, and people that are more more frequently using the sauna, it's a dose dependent effect. So people that use the sona, for example, two to three times a week have a twenty four percent lower, all cause mortality compared to people that only use IT one time a week. But people that use IT four to seven times, so we have a forty percent lower, all cause mortality compared to people that only use IT one time a week.

So in other words, IT seems like the minimal effective dose to get the most robust effect would be four times a week. And the same goes for other parameters. So cardiovascular from you know cardio ash, cute related mortality, it's fifty percent lower in people that use this on a four to seven times a week compared to one time a week, where as if you're only doing IT two to three times that we could something like twenty seven percent lower.

And when I said duration in the sa, it's really important to those studies were also done looking at, okay, let's say people are only staying in the song of for eleven minutes first is like greater than twenty minutes. So like twenty minutes, right? Um they didn't have that robust fifty percent reduction in all its our in cardioscopes mortality of the only stayed in for eleven minutes.

IT was much less IT was a little bit like IT was improved, but IT was not fifty percent. The temperature and the duration and the frequency, those are three parameters that are important with respect to using, you know, a regular hot sona. And when I say the reason, I say regular hotz sana is because another type of sona is very popular or infrared zona and in for redon as do not get as hot.

So they're not warming the ambient air around you. They are working through another mechanism and the sort of like moving molecules inside your body around and sort of heating you up in a different way. And you do sweat a lot and you do get your you can get you a core body temperature elevated, particularly if you stay in quite a long time.

You do have to to keep in mind that you can't take those parameters and go i'm going to stay in one hundred and forty five degree in fred sa for only twenty minutes because that's what those finished studies option because they're completely different. If you're just staying in for twenty minutes like the same out of time in each, you're not going to get those blood pressure improvements from an infrared zona, which makes sense. It's not as hot, right? You're not IT takes longer to elevate that core, but to get your heart rate elevated.

And anyone that's done like i've done a lot of in for red sona. I ve ve done a lot of regular hot sona. And you know I know and also wearing a heart rate on or right, you can wear like your fit bit or your woop or whatever in into the sona.

And you you'll know when your heart rate starts to get elevated and it's not going to be after twenty minutes in an infrared. Ana, for me, I have to stay in like forty five like I take sixteen minutes is more like the duration that I would have to stay in to start to get more elevations in my heart rate. Um again, that's that mimmo king of the modern intensity exercise.

But there's also biomarkers that have been measured. So for example, um we haven't gone gone into this year but heat shocked proteins. These are one of the adaptations that happen when your body is forced um to increases core body temperature, whether that's through physical activity, which is making you hot and making you sweat or deliberate heat exposure.

And studies have been done looking at people that go into a relatively hot sona. So this would be one hundred and sixty three degree fair. And hydrogen.

If they stay in for thirty minutes, they can raise their, he checked proteins about fifty percent over their baseline levels, and he shocked, proteins have a lot of beneficial effects. So they, they're involved with preventing proteins from aggregating, informing places in the brain, in the vascular system. They also are very important for preventing muscle atrophy.

And there are now been studies that have been done doing that just even locally heating, you know. So these studies have been done, have been like they're called immobilization studies where they are sort of mimic an injury or an event like, let's say, you go and like an older person goes into the hospital, they have the fleet, whatever. They're basically immobilized for a period of weeks.

And so they're not using their muscles, and their muscles were atrophying at a rapid rate. Studies have been done with you. If you apply even just a local heat that you can cut, that this use atr free by as much as forty percent.

So he shock proteins are a good biomarker for heat stress, so is increased heart rate. We talked about like you're getting up to one one twenty. You get up to one twenty beats permanent.

I'm sitting in the hot sauna, and that's really an indication that your core body temperatures being elected, your body's doing that work, and you can elevate your huge hug proteins by being emerged from the shoulders down for about twenty minutes in about one hundred and four to review high water, which is a standard hot tub level. I do think there are comparable effects with respect to the modality of heat exposure, whether we're talking about a hot sona or a hot bath, perhaps an infra zona. Again, the duration, the parameters will change, the premature will change.

But I do think that you can find comparable effects. There are personal preferences at play. Like, I I like both hot tub and hot sona.

I find that I cheat more with a hot tub. Like, I like more proud to put my arms out when I get really hot. When I mean this sona, I there's no where to go, right? Like like if I if i'm getting hot then I have to get out and then i'm like, oh i'm giving up like mentally and like no, i'm not onna give up. But if I mean the hot tub I don't flink i'm giving up and i'm just like getting arms out.

There is an immune benefit too, like your immune stem .

is there there is yeah so there was um there been some observational data studies as well. Looking at leg non us, I think IT was something like forty percent lower in people that used the song of four to seven times a week. And they've been a lot of really early studies on um again, these are coming out of finland where there's humidity.

So you know there's steam involved as well. You're working your cardy vascular system. I mean, the lungs are affected and I don't know all the the mechanisms and I don't know that they have often worked out, but there is some sort of bedroom on the logs and also just the immune system as well.

IT seems like immunity is happen as well and it's funny. Do get into the sona when i'm feeling a little under the weather or even if I am sick IT because I find it's easier than getting on my palatine. I I get in there and i'll do the team and I feel so much Better. I feel so much Better.

It's like there's my my grandmother and grandfather used to tell me like sweared out. And there's almost like something true to that when you are feeling sick.

absolutely. So when you are sick, you get a fever and the fever response, your court body temperature is elevated and heat shock proteins are activated. And he shocked proteins do play a role.

And what is called the in the nate response. So that's the immune response that you have when you've never seen a virus or bacteria pathogen before. It's that like it's not the anybody response, it's that leg.

Okay, let's fire away. And so heat, our proteins do play a role in that. And um when you are getting in the sauna, when you're doing some form of delivery heat exposure, you are elevating your core body temperature.

And so the fever response is a very important part of our immune way, our community stems way of um dealing with the pathogen, right? It's important like we we get a favor for a reason. The reason I actually got into the sa way back in like two thousand and nine had nothing to do with cardy.

You ask the effects, or you know even the affects on on muscle mass, but was the effects on my mood. And that was I was very stressed out in graduate school, and this was like two thousand and nine. And I was using the sauna every morning before I would go into the lab, into my experiments that would often fail is very stressful.

And um I started to notice quite quickly that I was able to handle that stress a lot Better. I was just I was like I wasn't getting so depressed after and so like down an anxious and um and that's when I was like something is going on here, like I was very noticeable for me. And so then I started to look into the literature and.

Come up with my own sort of theories which um I connecting the dots where I I actually did publish on this back in twenty twenty two. It's in my huge review article on the sa called how sona sona use can increase health san and I think that has to do with when you get into the sona again, you're mimicking a lot of the same effect that cardiovascular le exercise. And so you you're releasing a lot of endorphins as well.

Those are the feel good opposite that we're released in our brain. But what's really interesting is that also the opposite of endorphin is called dine morphin. So it's also an oppoa that we released in our body and it's that open that involved in like the discomfort feeling. So like when you working out, when you're getting hot, you're like you feeling uncomfortable.

Your body's is making die northin and dying northin is a part of what he does is IT cools down your body so it's playing a role in like, okay, you're you're getting your elevating your code temperature until the adapt of responses okay, we need to call down somewhat the northern plays a role in that. But IT also is what's responsible for that uncomfortable feeling when you look, oh, i'm so hard, I want to get out when you release din northin, you have a response, a feedback loop in your brain where dying northern causes your body to make more receptors to the feel good and dorpat and IT sensitizers those those receptors and IT makes sense. If you think about IT, right, when your body's not feeling good and you're getting that uncomfortable feeling, IT wants to make sure that it's going counter that with feeling good.

And the next time you make endorphins from a hug from your child or a joke, you laugh at whatever you're going to a feel even Better because you're going to a be more sensitive to to those endorphins from those it's called new obviate receptors and not what you make when you increase. And girl anyways. But now there is a lots more research coming out, so work from doctor Charles raise on and now um his british doctor.

Actually Mason, it's a type of sa like a it's A A bed and it's a chAmber with the head out. And so your whole body is in IT. They are elevated in your core body temperature to about one or one point three degrees fairing heights.

You're getting a fever and they're inducing a feverish response. Now many people have to be into in the sona and is an infrared tic gets up about one forty five is sure something like that. And they're in there for like sixty minutes and fifty minutes to sixty minutes, and they're getting they're getting a feverish response. So it's not it's it's a very intense procedure and but they induce this feverous response one one point three four and high just one time in people with major depressive disorder. And um they or they did a sham control where they made them feel like they were getting hot, but I like wasn't hot enough and the people that got the act of trees had an antidepressant ffel that later, like six weeks after I was like enormous and crazy placebo group didn't get IT at all.

It's amazing what our body you can do to heal itself, you know, are not sort of always injecting IT with stuff too. There's all these other ways to go about healing IT the most like IT knows what IT doing some time .

IT does I I agree with I mean, it's it's so exciting to potentially have a non pharma logical treatment question because it's undeniable that doing a robic exercise like theyve compared running to classical and depressions like s sri. So saton, we have taken habitats, right? The in terms of the antidepressant effects is like the same.

Only the running has all the other benefits, right? There are people that are really severely depressed that like just can give me get out of bed yeah like they're not gonna for a run. And it's true there are people that will not get out of bed, but will they get into a sona? yes. I mean, it's it's a lot easier. And so IT really opens up doors that are just IT is so exciting.

super promising as we edge to for the ageing population, a lot of people who don't want to exercise and I get a lot older or you know the x and pains and maybe it's a low intensity where to do that I can save for myself. Drink covered was probably that, you know, one of the most stressful periods of my life. And the sona like, you know, I think it's saved my life a lot.

You know what I mean, like IT, I was using the sona five, six times a week. And IT was just sort of like a IT was mentally grounding IT was something like forward to was a great ritual. But I sort of kept me had to trouble for some reason.

And I could never explain IT not an end of one. And you know, not super scientific and all that, but I was like, this is working. This is keeping me like happy and going and motivated.

And I going to keep doing more of this because, yeah, that was really crazy. I want to talk about exercise. Uh, maybe we'll do that in part two because I don't think we're going to do IT justice here in the next ten minutes. But maybe we can end with sort of the top three h interventions you can think of from a diet productive, and then the top three interventions you can think of from a behavioral perspective that would have the biggest bang on people's lives.

diet wise, like the top three things that people can think about would be to make sure they're getting enough of their marine tours of megory. So supplementing with two grams of a pretty decent quality fish brand, fish oil brand per day. And that's so he is like low hanging fruit.

And then I would save vitamin d three. Most people, uh, four thousand, I used as a pretty safe bet. And and you you know I think that at the very least doing four thousand, I used a day of item d three as you mentioned, it's like the cheaper supplement.

It's something like a penny appeal. It's like the most affordable thing um you know to do and then um making sure you are eating your Greens and getting your protein. So like the man thinking about the magnesium and then the one point two grams per kilogram body way a day are are like the biggest be bank for your buck, I think.

And then with respective behavioral exercise and particularly doing a good amount of high intensity exercise, and we didn't get so much into what, but IT really is one of the most important things that you can do. I mean, they're studies showing that people just doing one to three minutes of like getting their heart rate up to eighty percent max. Heart rate for like one one to three minutes, you know, three times a week is associated like a fifty percent reduction in all cosmetically and cancer relate mortality.

So it's easy to do like you can do that right? You can just get up and do three minutes, you know like it's not it's not that chAllenging also I mean resistance training in muscle mass super important, like you need to be you need to be building that muscle mass and maintaining IT because fraise ty um you know you get to a point when you start to get older and all of and you have an event where you ve got influenza, whatever, and then you start to you're not working out, you lose so much muscle and you get a couple of those stacked on over a couple of years and then always said you can't walk, your mobility goes down and manages the curve just drops, right? So um resistance training is extremely important.

And if you're doing those two things, you're probably gone to be you know maintaining a healthy body way because at the end of the day, calories and calories, that does matter, right? So if you're doing the the exercise and the resistance training um and you're kind of focusing on like getting the the proper mico neutrino from your beeches and protein intake, you're probably not going to be eating all the the junk. But then on tap on the last thing I would say um behavior wise, I I add I would add so on a deliberate exposure, I think I think that's huge for um a lot of reasons.

You know for the cardio asia reasons, there's mental health effects as we talked about. There's also other brain effects. Um dementia risk is lower as well.

And then muscle atrophy, you can do the deliberate he exposure to help prevent muscle, attach phy as well as I think those are the three behavioral changes. And by the way, exercise can forgive a lot of sense, including lack of sleep. That's why start with that. And and in night, I don't make the sleep the most important. I actually think it's exercise well .

after have you on for part two because I really wanted dive in to both resistance straining and cardiff asked lar exercise with you. But this has been an amazing conversation. Thank you so much for time.

Well, I look for you and thank for all the great questions. Spend a lot of fun.

Wow, what a fun conversation that was with doctor. Want to patch and I just want to go through some of my takeaway and notes from this one. Uh, you know I think the big overarching message that we got across today is that a lot of people focus on the micro. And if you notice on to kept bring you back to the micro.

And I don't mean in terms of nutrient, I mean in terms of what we focus on, where we're overly focused on these little my new things because they're really within our control and we want to feel like we're doing something when in reality, there's these big things that were not focused on that nobody y's really arguing about. So you might argue whether seto s bad for you, I think IT is or not. But at the end of the day, you know, are we getting the right um magnesium? Are we getting for IT every getting omega trees? How are we positioning ourselves? And this is how I think about food.

Personally, this is one of the reasons i'm expLoring this with with doctor around patric. And you know, some other gas is the food that you put into your body is sort of a lead domino for a open of other things. IT affects your mood.

IT affects your energy. IT affects how you handle stress. IT affects how you handle your emotions. IT really dict ates a lot of what comes down streaming.

So paying attention to the food your body is a really good way to take control of your life is a really small thing you can do to put yourself on easy mode every day. We didn't get in to talking about sugars. We didn't talk about oil s too much.

I really. Want you to get into that also really wanted to get into exercise routines and talk about that. Uh but I think we'll try to do that the next episode.

We will definitely do a part two of this. Um I did take away sort of like, you know a grass fed was Better. If you can afford IT. If not, don't stress over same as organic. If you're going afford a great if you can't, don't stress over IT.

And again, if you had to pick and choose I loved her heroic for using thin and thick skin as the way to pick and choose if you're sort of like, oh, I wanted do some more than I can and not all, i'd like her approach to sort of washing veggies. It's very practical and pragmatic. You know IT doesn't have to be sort of the a instagram that you see of the vinegar and the baking suit and the water and soaking IT for fifteen minutes.

I liked the very end when we talked about sort of like here three behavioral interventions that you can do that really make a difference. And here three sort of supplement diet ary things. And again, they were fishel vitamin d, three Greens and protein, and then high intensity exercise, a resistance training and sona, which I really like, in part because i'm biased to have assa.

And I think that that makes a big difference, made a big difference for me to and COVID. I think it's made a big difference for other people that I have have one thing we didn't talk about was sleep. And I know a friend of mine, Andrew kenn, has won and he says he really, really drives to sleep.

I don't know if that helps me sleep. Sometimes I get in there. I I have to be honest with you. I'd like talking about this smoothly. And if you remember, SHE had a smoothly recipe and IT was sort of like four kale leaves s avocado, frozen blueberry, which he actually wanted to the way to say, a ton of frozen blueberry protein powder, collagen powder, and there is that marange a powder water. And then we talked about my smoothed, the one that I make with the kids, and how I was unintentionally adding bananas and blueberry together, and sort of undoing the amazing effect of blueberries. And i'm going to switch, i'm going to try to switch IT out and see what the kids think, or even if they noted, switch out the banana put in avocado, but again in mind, recalled the time brady was protein A G wan walts blueberry.

Is yoga alliance going to a switch at the banana cheese? Ds and ham seeds, if you want to, a hampstead are really good sort of source of extra calories and fat for for the kids, if you are trying to get them to eat more, which, you know, I have one kid who eats a lot, one kid who doesn't need a lot, tom, always trying to get more nutrient dance food into both of them. What else do we talk about? We sort of talked about the sun and sunscreen and and so circumstantial, there's not a lot to take away from that other than you when you're out in the sun, be careful about what you you're sort of putting on your skin and also be careful but how much fun you are getting.

You don't wanna get some burned and yeah I just really thank you guys for listening. And if you have any questions or follow up, just seen an email shame at F S. Stop log. And what i'll do is all set of like create a little sheet and we can make questions for follow up for around tea. We're definitely going to do this again.

I really appreciate take the time to listen and learn with me. As you can see, this is my journey and i'm learning along with you. So I really appreciate IT.

Thanks for listening and learning with us. For a complete list of episodes shown notes, transcripts and more, go to F S dob log slashed podcast, or just google the knowledge project. The forum straight blog is also where you can learn more about my new bug, clear thinking, turning ordinary moments into extraordinary results. It's a transformative guide that hands you the tools to master your fate, sharp in your decision making and set yourself up for unparalleled success. Learn more at fs dot blog slash clear until next time.