The Surprising Habits of Backable People with Suneel Gupta
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#37: 畅销书作者苏尼尔·古普塔与克里斯一起讨论如何让你的想法对他人听起来如此吸引人，以至于他们不仅采纳它们，还为其辩护。他们讨论了如何让失败对你有利，为什么信念和讲故事可能比统计数据更具说服力，为什么你应该停止努力去表现得有魅力，以及付出额外努力的力量。苏尼尔·古普塔（@suneel）是《可支持人：让人们愿意冒险支持你的惊人真相》的畅销书作者。在他职业生涯的某个时刻，如果你在谷歌中搜索“失败”，你会找到一篇《纽约时报》文章，讲述他的故事。他是RISE的创始首席执行官，该应用被苹果评选为年度最佳应用，后来被One Medical收购。苏尼尔后来竞选美国国会，曾在哈佛大学任教，目前是美国与不丹王国之间的国民幸福总值大使。完整节目笔记请访问：https://allthehacks.com/backable-suneel-gupta 合作伙伴优惠有关我们合作伙伴的所有优惠、折扣和促销代码，请访问：allthehacks.com/deals 提及的资源与苏尼尔联系：网站 | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedIn 苏尼尔的书：《可支持人：让人们愿意冒险支持你的惊人真相》 纽约时报文章，讲述苏尼尔的失败之旅 LaidOffCamp：Tech Crunch | NPR 完整节目笔记（00:16）谁是苏尼尔·古普塔？（01:38）克里斯在2009年被解雇的疯狂故事（02:53）苏尼尔·古普塔的病毒式失败故事（04:30）让失败为你服务（05:50）为什么有一个出色的想法还不够（07:38）是的，你可以做任何你想做的事情——但有一个警告（09:17）为什么在向投资者推介时，塑造一个中心角色比统计数据更有力量（14:23）可支持的人都是有魅力的人吗（以及为什么你不应该努力去做有魅力的人）？（17:31）如何不太严格地帮助你（以及你在可支持圈中需要的四种人）（26:58）借鉴成功人士的失败经验（28:51）成功人士失败中的非显而易见教训（34:21）将外部人员转变为内部人员（35:55）为你想要掌握的事物建立肌肉记忆（38:31）问什么而不是“你怎么看”（42:23）为什么你应该缩短演示时间（50:52）与完全陌生人开启对话并建立融洽关系（57:30）你传递的能量很重要（59:40）为什么你应该比其他任何人多走一步（01:08:15）准备你想要带来的能量，并提前指出负面因素（01:13:37）苏尼尔·古普塔现在在做什么（01:16:03）如何与苏尼尔·古普塔联系 与所有黑客联系 所有黑客：时事通讯 | 网站 | 会员 | 电子邮件 克里斯·哈钦斯：Twitter | Instagram | 网站 | LinkedIn 编辑注：本页面的内容在发布时是准确的；然而，我们的一些合作伙伴优惠可能已经过期。此处表达的观点仅代表作者本人，而不代表任何银行、信用卡发行商、酒店、航空公司或其他实体。此内容未经任何列入本文的实体审查、批准或以其他方式认可。</context> <raw_text>0 the... I was like, oh, yeah, she's the collaborator. Oh, no, she's that. Oh, she's the coach. Yeah. Can the same person fill multiple roles? Or do you need four distinct people? No, the same person can fill multiple roles. But I think the key is, you want to be clear with people about what it is you need before you go in and talk to them. So if you're about to go give a pitch,

or if you're about to go to a big meeting, you don't need cheddar moments before that, right? That's the last thing that you need. In that moment, you need a cheerleader, maybe you need a little bit of a collaborator. So the key is that if you have one person who can play multiple roles, you say to them, look...

Or, you know, let's take a reverse example. You're early, early on an idea, right? And you're trying to get, you're trying to become aware of what are all the blind spots of the idea. Well, then you call a friend and say, look, I need you to be a critic right now. I need you to be a chatter. But if your moment's before that big moment, you want to call somebody and say, I need a cheerleader right now. And so just be very clear with people about what you need.

Yeah, I'll go and say this actually applies to so many things. As many people listening know, I have a newsletter. And I remember the first time I asked my wife for feedback. I said, hey, can you give me feedback on this newsletter? So I sent it to her and she comes back and there's all these comments about all the grammatical mistakes I made. And I was like, hey, I really appreciate you helping me because I made a bunch of typos and edits and all that.

But I really just wanted to know if it was a good idea to write about this topic. And so you could take that lesson and apply it far beyond just ideas that become backable and whatnot. Yeah.

Totally, totally. Yeah, no, I mean, same thing happens to me, by the way. I'm working on a new book right now, and it's very, very rough. We're like in rough shape stage right now. I'm writing very, very shitty first drafts. And so I'll tell my wife, and she's a writer, as you know, and I'll say to her, look, skip all the stylistic stuff. Don't even touch that. Just tell me, does this thing flow? Does this thing even make sense at all?

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I know there are a few other things that you highlight in the book, but before we get there, I want to jump back to how you learned all of this. So yes, you reached out to all these people. I'm not even sure if you were thinking about writing a book at the time, but what kinds of people wrote back and what were kind of some of the lessons that were themes amongst everyone?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I started to put it into practice myself immediately. And I naturally am just a, I'm a note taker. And, you know, I tend to sort of take, you know, when I'm in a meeting with anybody who I'm learning from, I just take copious notes. And I'm pretty disciplined about that. And I would leave every single one of these meetings. And it was a broad range of people.

It was military leaders. It was celebrity chefs. It was people who were producing films. It was a lot of people inside Silicon Valley who were on both sides of the table, founders who had done well and investors who invested in founders. And so I was taking my notes and I was compiling them and I was starting to realize that, A, I really loved having these conversations and wanted to have more of them. And so I did. I just continued to do that. But B, as I was putting these things into practice, like,

it was working. It was working for me. And I started to share some of the nuggets and some of the wisdom that I was getting in these conversations with other people, people who are starting companies, people who are inside companies that were trying to get their ideas made. And it was working for them, too.

And so it took a while. I mean, I started this process in 2014. I didn't start writing the book until 2017. And the book didn't come out until 2021. And so it's been a long time in the making. The way that I sort of themed the book was I really tried to put a tight filter on like

the obviousness. Like there were a lot of obvious things that came out of these conversations too, right? You need to do your research. You need to be prepared. Like there are all the sort of obvious things. But I try to just filter all that out because we already know that. And I try to really search for what was not obvious. Convincing yourself first to

me, even though now I look at it and I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. It's one of those things I never really did. And I noticed a lot of other people didn't either. I'm really taking the time to build that conviction. And in the book, we go through very specific things that people do to actually build conviction.

One of the other themes that came out of the book was this idea of playing exhibition matches, playing exhibition matches, which I still think today is a really, really important one, which is that when we studied backable people, one of the things we found was that they tend to almost have this improvisational style about them. When they speak...

It's almost like they're speaking like they're off the cuff. But the reality is that that actually is the product of lots and lots and lots of practice, right?

Right. And in fact, the average backable person that we studied was practicing about 21 times before they got into a big moment. So with any type of new content, any type of new presentation, new idea, it was 21 practice rounds before they before they got into the real thing. Now, like a couple of things to keep in mind. Number one is like these practice rounds can be with anybody.

you know like chris i'm sure like your wife would be on that list mine would be on mine right my daughter my daughter my nine-year-old daughter will do an exhibition match with me every once in a while right i just need somebody to kind of listen and it's really important to i think do this over and over again now the number one the number 21 might seem like a lot because it did to me and i thought to myself like isn't that going to make you sound really scripted isn't it going to make you sound like robotic if you practice something that much

But what I found is that the opposite happens because once you've actually mastered material at that level, when you sort of understand what you're talking about in that way, what it allows you to do is it allows you to drop your script when you walk inside a room, right? You no longer are sort of married to the outline where you're like, yeah, I'm going to say this and I'm going to say that and I'm going to say that, which it tends to be how most presentations are sort of given very linearly, right?

When you have mastered your material at that level, what it allows you to do is be fully tuned in, fully present and adaptive to what's happening inside the room. If something's resonating a little more, you can double click on that. If you find that there's a look of confusion on that person's face, well, then you can take the pause at the right moments and you can start to adapt and you can start to flow. And what we find is that backable moments never really happen when somebody walks into a room and like, really?

reads a script and then like drops the mic and leaves like that doesn't happen, right? It's a series of interactions. It's a back and forth. It's a it's pausing, it's jumping around, where these like really productive meetings tend to happen. And so mastering your material at that level allows you to have that kind of flexibility and fluidity. One of my favorite quotes from the book is from Charlie Parker, who's this great, who's great jazz musician, and he had

Not only was he just great musically, but he had this incredible stage presence to him. And so one day somebody asked him, they said, Charlie, how do you have such incredible presence on stage? And Charlie Parker says, well, you got to learn your instrument and then you practice, practice, practice. And then before you get up on stage, you forget all of that and you just wail.

Right. And what we're really trying to do, Chris, I think is we're trying to get to that point where we feel confident kind of just forgetting it, like forgetting all the stuff that we had been where we committed to memory and just like going in there and just being able to wail. Right. And the only way we get there is through lots of practice. Yeah. Two things that come from this that that I'll share. One is.

I always, if you look at a slide deck of any presentation I've ever given, a stark contrast to many others is that I try to put almost nothing on the slides, right? It's an image or a word or maybe three words or something, but I don't have a lot of bullets. And I've never really been able to articulate why. I always see people's presentations and I'm just like, cut it out, cut it out, put small things. But now I feel like I can actually articulate it based on what you said, which is,

if you know the content well enough and you want to read the room to, you can't have a script sitting behind you or you're kind of forced into a specific conversation. And so when you drop a lot of that, it gives you the flexibility to go wherever you want. Yeah. But it at least hones you to say, I'm still going to make this one macro point, but I can make it in whatever way I want. So I,

I appreciate you sharing that because I now could articulate why I do this thing I do. Well, I'll add to that too because I love that. And one of the things that I think that backable people like yourself tend to do is that they tend to share what something could be, but not exactly how it has to be.

They share what it could be and not exactly how it has to be. And so by having sort of a high level theme, what you're inviting is a discussion as well. And it may be that off that one sort of meta bullet that you have on that slide instead of the seven bullets, what you're going to do is you're going to prompt the

room to start contributing to the conversation. And that's when just like the best things happen. One of the chapters in the book is called Flip Outsiders into Insiders. Flip Outsiders and Insiders, right? You want people to ultimately feel like they're an insider in your idea. That's when people get interested. That's when they get excited. Salman Rushdie, who's one of my favorite authors, had this quote, and he said that most of the decisions that happen in our lives are

Most of the decisions that affect us happen when we're not even in the room.

Right. And I love that because it's so true, right? You go in and give a pitch. Like you were on the investing side, right? At Google Ventures, when people came in and pitched you, even if you love the idea, your next step was to go talk to other people at GV, right? You had to start representing the idea. So now all of a sudden, the outcome for this founder is somewhat in your hands, right? They're not in the room anymore. You're the one representing their idea. And the point is that oftentimes we sort of treat

these situations as we're trying to sell that person almost expecting like that's the final outcome but no we're not just looking to create people who like our idea we're trying to try to create people who advocate for our ideas right they have to go out and they have to sell their other people to sell their partners or their fellow colleagues or other members of the leadership team or whatever whatever it is and we can only do that if they feel like they are they have the almost founder level passion over the idea even if they didn't come up with it themselves

Yeah, I love that. And it's something that if I look back, fundraising, I tried to do, but I'm not sure I did it as well as I would if I tried again. I want to go back really quickly and just point out something that I know you kind of conveyed, but you didn't title one of the chapters, you need to do some research and prepare for meetings. It was play exhibition matches. And what

What I took away from that that was maybe subtle but also important is that

The type of preparation that you should be doing is very similar to the type of action you're going to have. So if you're giving a presentation, give the presentation. And that is different than reading the slides. That's different from writing out the notes and practicing the notes. So I just wanted to highlight, unless I got it wrong, that it's really important to match that medium and not just prepare, but actually do the thing you're going to do.

Yeah, yeah. It's such a good... I mean, I'm glad you brought it up because sometimes I forget how important this is. And it was impressed upon me many times from all the people that we studied, which is like...

you don't give the director's commentary when you're doing these exhibition matches, when you're, when you're giving these practice sessions, give it as if you're in the actual room, right? So you're not saying, Hey, so here's what I'm planning on doing. I'm going to say this to them. And I'm going to say that to them. You're just giving the actual thing because what you're doing is you're, is you're building the muscle memory that you're going to need when you're inside the real, the real situation. When I was studying for, um,

the GMAT, I still remember my, I was speaking and talking to my older brother, who's like a whiz at, at like the standardized tests. And I was like, dude, how do you do this? Cause I suck at standardized tests. What do I, what do I need to do? And he's like, listen, what time is the test that you're taking? And I was like, I was like at 3 PM. He's like, all right, every day from here until the test at 3 PM, you take a practice test every single day. Right. And I

I never would have done that. Like I never would have done that. I mean, it elevated my game. I mean, it was the best standardized test I've ever taken. Like I did way better than I thought I was going to. And it was only because every day at 3 p.m. I took that test. And so like applying that to like the world that we're in, if you are, if you have a big meeting,

coming up with the leadership team or you're pitching investors or whatever it is, right? What time is that meeting? Is it at 11 a.m.? Well, then at 11 a.m., start giving these exhibition matches. Start doing these practice sessions. Like, give a practice round every day at 11 a.m. between here and there, and you start conditioning your mind. You start getting it ready for the real moment. And again, like you said, you want to do the real thing. The other thing that I completely sort of...

I am terrible at doing is like, I always ask the question after I give a practice session to somebody, I always ask them the question, what did you think? Like, what did you think of that? Right. And what I realized is that backable people never ask that question because it's just, it's such a low signal thing.

Question to ask, you're not going to get the feedback that you need. Because typically, if you ask somebody like, what'd you think? They're going to be like, yeah, it was pretty good. You know, like, yeah, I liked it. And that doesn't really give you the information that you need to be better. And so especially if you're talking to somebody who is informed, the better question to ask is, what part of all that stood out to you the most?

Because now they actually have to put some thought into, like, they have to stack rank. Like, here's what the best stuff was. And it may turn out that some of the stuff that you wanted to be the best, the point that you were really trying to make, didn't actually make that cut. And that's really good information to have. Or the other great question that I love to ask now is how would you describe this idea to someone else?

Right. And it's something that I do now is as I, especially when I was thinking about new book topics and I sort of have my, you know, two page proposal proposal written is I would hand it to somebody and I'd say, can you read this? And then they'd be like, yeah, it's pretty good. And I'd be like, well, how would you describe this idea to a friend? Right. And what I found is that oftentimes some of my friends would describe my idea in a way that was much better than, than I ever could. And that ended up being the way that I ended up framing the book. Yeah. Is there a question that you can ask to find, um,

some of the stuff that's not good, right? I think that helps you rephrase and highlight what worked. And I'm asking specifically 'cause I usually ask guests at the end of this, after we stop the recording, I say, "I wanna know what I could have done to do a better interview." And I sometimes ask like, "Is there a question I should have asked or what question did I ask that really stood out?" Those things. But I'm like, "What could I have done better? Like, what did I do wrong?" It's like, I'm always craving the, "What did I do wrong that I could do better?"

Yeah, well, I mean, I love it. I love that you do that. I mean, one of the things that really impressed me, this is, let's answer your question is like, when we were selling Rise, we sold Rise to a company called One Medical. And one of the things that really impressed me from the beginning about One Medical and the founder, a guy named Dr. Tom Lee, was that he had sort of run his brick and mortar business.

you know, business in the, in the very beginning, it was like literally just him inside a clinic and he was serving every role. He was the doctor, he was the nurse, he was the phlebotomist, he was the front desk, he was everything. But one of the things that he did when he was starting out is every time a patient would leave the experience, he'd say, Hey, look on a, on a scale of one scale, one to 10, how would you rate this experience? And if it was anything other than a nine or a 10, he would ask, what could I have done?

that would have made this a nine or a 10, right? And I think that that's just a very positive sort of way, I think, to ask that question.

But what was really cool about his story is like, because he was serving all roles, he would literally take that feedback and he'd roll it right into the next patient visit. So he had this just like, you know, almost like product development iteration style clinic that he was running. And he continued to sort of fold this feedback in over and over and over again until he finally refined this process that he felt like was ready to scale. So yeah, I think just asking people that, what would it have taken to make it a nine or a 10? Yeah.

Yeah. And that's like, it's so funny. It's a classic thing that companies do. I'm sure everyone here has gotten a survey after buying a product online. And Net Promoter Score.

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I just want to thank you, Quick, for listening to and supporting the show. Your support is what keeps this show going. To get all of the URLs, codes, deals, and discounts from our partners, you can go to allthehacks.com slash deals. So please consider supporting those who support us. I'd love to jump quick back to what you were saying about bringing people in. And...

I'm curious if you have tactics for bringing people into your idea, your project. I think you've convinced me of how valuable it is, but how do you actually do it? Yeah, I was kind of the person who would come into an hour-long meeting and I would have like 40 minutes worth of content, right? Like I would have a pretty exhaustive slide deck and then I would use that 40 minutes to sort of like go through it. And then I'd use 20 minutes for Q&A.</raw_text>

<context>令人惊讶的可支持者的习惯与苏尼尔·古普塔 #37：畅销书作者苏尼尔·古普塔与克里斯一起讨论如何让你的想法对他人听起来如此吸引人，以至于他们不仅采纳它们，还为它们辩护。他们讨论了如何让失败对你有利，为什么信念和讲故事比统计数据更具说服力，为什么你应该停止试图变得有魅力，以及付出额外努力的力量。苏尼尔·古普塔（@suneel）是《可支持者：让人们愿意冒险的惊人真相》的畅销书作者。在他职业生涯的某个阶段，如果你在谷歌上搜索“失败”，你会看到一篇《纽约时报》的文章 featuring 他的故事。他曾是 RISE 的创始首席执行官，该应用被苹果评为年度应用，后来被 One Medical 收购。苏尼尔后来竞选美国国会，曾在哈佛大学任教，目前是美国与不丹王国之间的国民幸福总值特使。完整节目笔记请访问：https://allthehacks.com/backable-suneel-gupta 合作伙伴交易有关我们合作伙伴的所有交易、折扣和促销代码，请访问：allthehacks.com/deals 提到的资源与苏尼尔联系：网站 | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedIn 苏尼尔的书：《可支持者：让人们愿意冒险的惊人真相》 纽约时报文章 featuring 苏尼尔的失败经历 LaidOffCamp：Tech Crunch | NPR 完整节目笔记（00:16）谁是苏尼尔·古普塔？（01:38）克里斯在 2009 年被解雇的疯狂故事（02:53）苏尼尔·古普塔的病毒式失败故事（04:30）让失败对你有利（05:50）为什么有一个出色的想法还不够（07:38）是的，你可以做任何你想做的事 - 但有一个警告（09:17）为什么在向投资者推介时，塑造一个中央角色比统计数据更有力量（14:23）可支持者都是有魅力的人吗（以及为什么你不应该试图变得有魅力）？（17:31）如何不太严格会对你有帮助（以及你在可支持圈中需要的 4 种人）（26:58）从成功人士的失败中应用经验教训（28:51）成功人士失败中的非显而易见的教训（34:21）将局外人转变为局内人（35:55）为你想要掌握的内容建立肌肉记忆（38:31）该问什么而不是“你觉得怎么样”（42:23）为什么你应该有更短的演示（50:52）与完全陌生人开始对话并建立融洽关系（57:30）你所散发的能量很重要（59:40）为什么你应该比其他人多做一步（01:08:15）准备你想要带来的能量，并提前指出负面因素（01:13:37）苏尼尔·古普塔目前正在做什么（01:16:03）如何与苏尼尔·古普塔联系 与 All the Hacks 联系 All the Hacks：通讯 | 网站 | 会员 | 电子邮件 克里斯·哈钦斯：Twitter | Instagram | 网站 | LinkedIn 编辑注：此页面上的内容在发布时是准确的；然而，我们的一些合作伙伴优惠可能已过期。此处表达的观点仅代表作者本人，与任何银行、信用卡发行者、酒店、航空公司或其他实体无关。此内容未经过任何发帖实体的审查、批准或以其他方式认可。</context> <raw_text>0 我发现大多数会议的进行方式往往是40-20的分配。而我现在做的是反转这一点。我带着20分钟或更少的内容进入会议，内容非常高层次，然后开放讨论。因为我认为这些可支持的时刻发生在你能让人们参与的时候，对吧？这意味着要反直觉地分享，意味着在最初分享的内容少于你可能分享的内容，对吧？这意味着真正设定出高层次的愿景，拥有一些细节，但其余的内容则作为备份。准备好，准备好进行讨论。你知道，我认为人们有一个错误的认识，误解是准备演示所需的时间比准备一次富有成效的讨论所需的时间要长，对吧？

这并不是真的。实际上，准备讨论所需的时间要多得多，因为在讨论中，你必须能够提出正确的问题。你必须能够提取出正确信息集。你必须对在场的其他人进行大量研究，因为你知道他们都带来了某些观点，而你也希望能够利用这些观点。这样就以某种方式将人们结合在一起，并开始将所有这些结合在一起。我认为这需要更高层次的准备。

我非常喜欢的一个故事是，我研究了一位在大型公司中表现出色的设计师，比如微软和谷歌。作为设计师，这有时是困难的，因为你真的在努力引导很多人。尤其是在大型公司中，当有很多繁文缛节和决策者时，这有时可能是一个令人沮丧的角色。

但这个家伙在这方面表现得非常出色。我想了解他的过程是什么样的。其中一个他告诉我的故事是，当他刚开始时，他总是带着这些非常精确的设计进入会议。他会展示他的愿景。他把它们放在墙上，人们会把它撕得粉碎。他们会说，我不喜欢这个。我不喜欢那个。结果这些会议对他来说变得非常无效和令人沮丧。

但有一天，几乎是意外，他忘记了背包。所以他没有带上他的笔记本电脑，但会议已经安排好了。因此他字面上走进一个房间，但他无法展示这些设计，因为他没有带它们。因此，他实际上走到白板前，开始在白板上画他的设计。所以现在不是像素完美的颜色，而是黑白的，对吧？他所说的是，人们...

第一次真的站起来了。他们站在他身后，和他一起在白板上画图。他说，我们在那一个小时内完成的工作比我在过去几个月中试图完成这个设计所做的都要多。因为我...

是去找他们，我试图获得他们的支持，而不是把他们引入进来。1940年代有一个经典的故事，关于贝蒂·克劳克（Betty Crocker）。在1940年代，贝蒂·克劳克向市场推出了即食蛋糕混合粉。

他们对即食蛋糕混合粉感到非常兴奋，因为他们做了所有的研究，进行了所有的焦点小组，他们觉得这将是一个热门产品。因此，他们在这方面投入了大量的营销资金。他们让即食蛋糕混合粉在全国的杂货店货架上销售。然后他们等着销售数字的到来。当这些数字到来时，他们感到震惊。

因为他们发现根本没有人购买这种即食蛋糕混合粉，他们无法弄清楚原因。因此，他们雇佣了一位心理学家，一个名叫欧内斯特·迪克达（Ernest Dykda）的人，去现场采访客户。迪克达所带回来的消息让贝蒂·克劳克的人感到震惊。他说，我认为你们让制作蛋糕的过程太简单了。

因为当顾客将蛋糕从烤箱中取出时，他们实际上并没有感到任何归属感。他们实际上并不觉得自己制作了这个蛋糕。因此，迪克达说，我有一个建议，你们为什么不去掉一个关键成分，看看会发生什么？于是他们去掉了鸡蛋。现在作为顾客，你必须出去购买新鲜鸡蛋。你必须把它们带回家。你必须把它们打入混合物中。你必须搅拌它。然后你把它放进烤箱，销售量就完全上升了。

对吧。因为现在当蛋糕从烤箱中出来时，顾客实际上感到对这个蛋糕有一些归属感。他们觉得自己是自己制作的。看看，这一点已经通过不同的心理测试一再证明。有一个来自哈佛的团队称之为宜家效应，基本上说我们对自己参与建造的东西的价值评估是我们仅仅从货架上购买的东西的五倍。

因为我们是自己制作的。所以有很多人拥有制作粗糙的沙发床和家具，他们永远不会把它扔掉，因为他们会说，不，我是自己动手做的。我用自己的双手制作的。那么这与我们所讨论的有什么关系呢？我认为我们往往进入会议时把人们当作买家，而不是建造者，对吧？

对吧。人们不想成为买家，即使他们的工作是投资者，工作是制作人，工作是批准公司内部的想法。人们想成为建造者。他们实际上想要感觉自己是某个事物的一部分。因此，你的工作是找到一种方法，将他们从买家转变为建造者。这样，当他们离开房间时，他们实际上会感到自己也对这个事物有一些归属感。他们能够把自己的鸡蛋打入混合物中。

是的。首先，我要感谢贝蒂·克劳克，因为我和我的妻子喜欢烘焙，而她的烘焙技术比我好得多，但我就是觉得你无法做出比蛋糕混合粉更好的蛋糕。它总是尝起来好得多。所以首先...

我想给一点感谢。但我完全喜欢这个主题，如果你在做任何事情，无论是做演示，还是在构建产品，尽量少做一些... 不要试图为整个房间、合作伙伴或买家做所有事情，而是邀请他们参与。但我会强调... 你说了一些话，我有一个策略要分享，但仍然要为讨论做好准备。因此，当我为我的初创公司筹款时...

我有一个非常简短的幻灯片。但我所做的是，我考虑了每一个可能被问到的问题。每当有人问一个我们没有想到的问题时，我的联合创始人就会把它写下来。下一次推介时，我们有一张幻灯片，回应每一个问题。这并不容易，但我去背诵了所有幻灯片的顺序。我几周前做了一期关于记忆的节目。如果你想改善这一点，可以去看看。我有一个答案。是的，你在更小的规模上。

所以有人会说，这与财务建议有关。他们会说，财务顾问是如何花时间的？我说，32，哗，幻灯片上升，答案在那里。我们可以用数据进行对话。但我没有带他们走过所有的问题，因为我想让他们参与提问、回答和思考这个是否是一个好主意。有趣的是，我了解到

如果有人问我一个问题，说：“人们真的想为财务建议付费吗？”我回答说：“是的，他们愿意。原因如下。”

他们似乎接受了。但如果有一张幻灯片上写着我的答案，人们就会觉得，他们更容易接受这个答案。只需我考虑每一个问题，写下来，同样的答案。没有更多的数据。只是写得像是准备好的。通过准备，就像是，是的，这是确定的。这个人不仅仅是在给我我想听的答案。这是他们无论如何都会给出的答案。他们不是即兴发挥。他们不是在和我开玩笑。因此，我总是告诉人们，

把那个问答环节拿来，尽管你可能不会使用75%的幻灯片，但为你可能会遇到的每一个问题写一张幻灯片。这使你给人的答案变得更强大。是的。我喜欢这个。我喜欢这个。太棒了。是的。

实际上，这曾是苹果的一种用例，像一段时间一样有这个触摸条。我可以滑动幻灯片并尝试找到它，但这是一种无用的产品。他们最终把它去掉了。在与人见面并试图吸引他们的谈话中，我认为我和许多人面临的一个问题是

是的，如果你安排了一次会议，开始会议是非常简单的。但当你在一个活动上看到某人时，你会说，这个人可以增值。我想把他们带进来。我想让他们成为我正在做的事情的局内人，但我不认识他们。我走向这个人。有些人有能力走向任何人并开始对话并吸引他们。而...

我知道竞选国会时，你做了成千上万次，走向完全陌生的人并尝试快速建立融洽关系。你对那些在会议上看到比自己更高级的人，或许是经营另一家公司、非常成功、能增值的人有什么建议？你如何走过去并吸引那个人？那些做得很好的人有什么可支持的特点？嗯。

这是个好问题，克里斯。即使做了成千上万次，我也不知道我是否掌握了这一点。我觉得我从来没有很擅长闲聊，这对于竞选政治职位并不好。但我想说的是，提出好的问题是一种被低估的艺术，对吧？我认为我们倾向于这样做：

我们在与某人的珍贵时刻中往往只是问一些老生常谈的东西。比如，你好吗？你过得怎么样？我认为有时我们可以问更具体的问题。我认为每当你希望让某人参与时，你会

而不是立即向他们推销，我尝试做的事情是让自己处于信息收集模式。我想知道他们现在在做什么？他们最感兴趣的是什么？我试图从人们那里获取的一件事是：

你知道，嘿，你觉得目前哪些事情运作得最好？比如如果是投资者，那么你目前最自豪的投资组合中的一些是什么，对吧？你觉得，甚至可以问：你认为你预期会发生什么而让你感到惊讶？

对吧？今年最大的惊喜是什么，这是我可能会问某人的问题，但我真的想利用这几分钟，而不是推销自己，而是试图获取一些关于这个人的信号，对吧？这是第一件事。我想说的第二件事是，我们往往太快就进入了杀戮的阶段，对吧？即使像竞选公职，

我看到那些人会说，我希望得到你的投票，对吧？我会走上前去，像是，我正在竞选公职，我希望得到你的投票。结果是，这从来不奏效。就像，是的，太早了。你想做的是，你想了解这个人，对吧？

你是谁？像，我在和选民交谈。你最关心的是什么？当你在11月投票时，最重要的事情是什么？这些问题让我理解这个人是谁。我认为我们需要从直接进入杀戮的阶段演变为更像一击一击的方式，第一阶段是尽可能了解这个人。

然后第二阶段是安排后续会议，并说，我很想和你分享这些。但我认为最重要、几乎从未做过的事情是：一旦你回到家或走到一边，写下你刚刚学到的一切，对吧？字面上拿出一个笔记本

拿出你的手机上的笔记，写下你从那次谈话中学到的四五件事情。因为当你回去与那个人交谈时，你想确保你把这些融入到谈话中去。就像你在回应和反应他们给你的信息。

是的，我总是会收到电子邮件，我认为我并不总是写下笔记。三天后，你会想，天哪，我们在谈论什么？我见过那么多人。因此，我喜欢这个想法，我把电子邮件留在草稿箱中，但我应该回去在之前添加一些要点，即使它们不是我实际上会发送的内容。我认为人们，无论是什么水平，无论他们是谁，我认为最终，我们都想被倾听。

对。我们都想被倾听，而这真的是如此普遍，太原始了。而且我们往往只是不，我们并没有向人们展示我们可能真的听到了他们，但我们并没有向他们展示我们听到了他们。你知道，我研究过的那些在大型公司中表现出色的人，他们在导航和聚集周围的人方面非常出色。他们能够真正掌握的一种艺术形式是，

即使他们不同意人们，他们

他们总是让他们知道他们考虑过他们的反馈，对吧？比如说，有一个我跟随的高管，她所做的是，每当人们给她反馈时，她会把它写下来。对吧？然后当她回到后续会议时，她会通过展示所有这些反馈来开始会议，对吧？就像她会字面上展示所有的反馈，她会说，以下是我在上次会议中听到的所有内容。

而且，我对这些反馈做了什么。并不是说，我回应了它。现在它是新想法的一部分。但有时我并没有回应它。但我想让你知道，我追踪过它。我听到了它，你被听到了。虽然当你分享一个想法并且它没有被使用时，这并不会让人感觉百分之百好。但肯定比有人说，嗯，这很有趣。然后对此无动于衷要好得多。

是的，绝对是。是的，我认为这回到你给人们发送建议的电子邮件时，你得到了如此高的回复率。显然，你知道，你必须展示这一点，嘿，看看，《纽约时报》称我为失败者，给我一点同情。但我确实认为，可能有效的信息

并驱使人们回应的是，你并不是在说，你能帮我一个忙吗？你是在说，能分享你的学习或你的... 我总是，当我写这些电子邮件时，要求人们分享他们的智慧，因为我觉得智慧是一个词，就像，嘿，我觉得你很聪明，我想从你那里学习。因此，我想回去想，这可能就是为什么你看到如此高的回复率，因为人们想被倾听。

我认为这完全正确，伙计。我认为这完全正确。我认为人们也想分享他们的故事。我认为如果你表现得像是没有特别的议程，我认为这真的很重要。我认为...

书中有一个故事，我希望我能更早地带入，因为它最终成了书的最后一章。因此，我觉得有时人们不会读完书。所以它可能在混乱中被遗忘。但这是一个名叫乔治·沙勒（George Schaller）的人物的故事。沙勒是一位出色的灵长类动物学家，他在他所做的工作中非常出色。他之所以在工作中表现出色，部分原因在于他能够比其他任何人更接近山地大猩猩。

他以某种方式接近他们，他们似乎让他进入的方式与其他人不同。因此，沙勒在一天的会议上展示他的发现，最终观众中的某个人站起来说，听着，沙勒博士，我不明白，为什么这些山地大猩猩允许你如此接近。他说，看看，这很简单，我从不携带枪，无论如何我从不携带武器。

这让所有人都感到困惑，因为他们说，好吧，好的，我们携带武器，但它们在我们的背包里，我们并没有像挥舞着它那样。它被藏起来了，视线之外。沙勒的理论是，看看，你可以隐藏你的态度。你可以隐藏一把枪，但你永远无法真正隐藏你对枪的态度。如果你有它，并且它在你的背包里，你总会以某种方式表现得有些不同。

而这种小小的差异，这种微妙的能量变化，山地大猩猩是可以感知到的，因为这对我们来说是如此原始。我经常思考这一点，因为当我发现自己试图听起来聪明时，

或者我试图表现得像是有一个议程，隐藏的议程，我意识到这会带来一种能量。而为了变得纯粹，就像在你的情况下，看看，我真的只是想向你学习，我认为这就是人们做出反应的原因。我认为你正在吸引一些真正优秀的嘉宾，自己不包括在内，但像约翰内斯·马尔洛（Johannes Marlow）和蒂姆·费里斯（Tim Ferriss）这样的真正优秀的嘉宾。这真的是一个令人惊叹的节目。谢谢。

是的。我是说，我们涵盖了很多... 首先，每个人，书中还有很多关于每个主题的内容。实际上，我读完了整本书。你欢迎。我还没有读完附录。但是的，我们没有讨论的一个事情是我对这个问题有疑问，我想跳到这个问题。你分享了... 这是关于找到一个获得的秘密，揭示那些不明显的信息的... 你刚才提到的问题，人们没有被问到。你分享了一个关于你如何利用这个获得工作机会的精彩故事。但

我的问题是，你有没有一些寻找这些秘密、揭示这些事情的技巧，可能再多提供一些关于这一章的背景？

是的，当然。我为这本书研究的其中一个人是布莱恩·格雷泽（Brian Grazier）。布莱恩是一位传奇的好莱坞制片人。他获得了超过130个艾美奖，数十个奥斯卡奖。但他还管理着大型团队，经营大型公司，并且还投资于科技公司。当我去见他时，这很有趣。这是在疫情之前。我在比弗利山庄的候诊室里。那里的人们

准备向他推销各种事情，从电影到科技到申请工作。你可以感觉到那个房间里真的很紧张。于是，当我回去见他时，我说，看看布莱恩，如果我能给在场的每个人一条建议，让他们在今天来这里之前如何准备与布莱恩·格雷泽的会议，这条建议会是什么？

他想了想，然后说，给我一些我在谷歌上找不到的东西。给我一些不明显的、无法用谷歌找到的东西。我觉得这很有趣，因为我越是与守门人、决策者、经典的支持者交谈，我发现伟大的会议往往基于一个洞察力，即进行推介的人自己去发现的。

就像他们不仅仅坐在桌子后面，而是走出去，找到了一些可能不那么明显的东西。这不一定要是划时代的，但他们确实将自己投入到故事中，并发现了一些如果仅仅做经典研究可能不会发现的东西。因此，这可能是试驾竞争对手的产品。

这可能是去，像是字面上参加一个展会或参加一些其他人可能不会参加的事情。就像是思考，考虑我喜欢做的事情。我喜欢对这个进行两步法。我想，像，大多数人会怎么准备这个？

然后我如何将自己放在这个故事中更进一步？我能做什么，使我超越谷歌，进入现实世界的某种方式？这可能字面上只是打电话给一组客户，问他们对这个的看法。我前几天在与某人交谈时

我知道我们已经谈论了一些关于申请工作的事情。我前几天在与某人交谈，这在我的书出版后。她给我打电话，告诉我这个故事。这个故事是她正在申请一份工作。她是一个妈妈。你知道，她正在重返职场。她正在申请一家社交媒体公司的工作。问题是，她并没有使用这个产品。就像这非常关注 Z 世代的产品，而她并不使用它。

于是她说，她想弄清楚如何为这次会议做准备。她做了所有的研究。她正在查看网站，阅读人们的个人简介，做所有我们通常会做的事情。但后来她说，你知道，我需要做一些更多的事情。因此，她决定采访她女儿的每一个朋友。

她采访了她女儿的每一个朋友，问他们，你喜欢这个产品的哪些地方？你不喜欢这个产品的哪些地方？你希望有什么不同？所有这些事情。然后她积累了所有这些研究。然后她进入这个面试，面试是通过 Zoom 进行的。是在疫情期间，通过 Zoom 进行的。她实际上像是...

开始将所有这些研究数据抛给这个人。现在，我不知道其中有多少是不同的，有多少是他们已经知道的，但她走出去做了所有这些研究和所有这些通常不做的事情，这位招聘经理非常印象深刻，以至于她不仅获得了这份工作，而且在会议中间，他实际上还连接了一位他们的 UX 设计师，像是，嘿，你需要见见这个人，我希望你们俩在之后花时间在一起，因为她收集了一些可能对你有用的东西。因此，我只是认为，走出一小步，超越大多数人所做的事情，试图找到一些可能不那么明显的东西，这真的是奇迹。

是的。我的意思是，找到一些可能不明显的东西，甚至只是做一些其他人不做的事情。是的，确切如此。我曾经在招聘时，有人...

令人惊讶的是，做这些事情的人是多么少。你必须付出多少努力才能在求职者、演示者中脱颖而出，因为许多人只是做最低限度的工作。因此，我做了一个演示。很有趣。我想在大约2010年获得一家热门初创公司的工作。我做了一份关于定位服务的演示。

我回头看，得到了这份工作。现在我回过头来，我想，那次演示真糟糕。我拿了一些愚蠢的市场研究报告，与我们正在构建的内容毫无关联。我把它放在一个幻灯片中，做了一些有点傻的幻灯片。这是一次糟糕的演示，给公司带来了零价值。但我制作它的事实

给了他们一些知识，表明我真的关心这个公司，因为我不会花时间去做这个。所以在我看来-所以他们没有要求你制作演示，你只是制作了。没有，没有。我当时就说，嘿，我想在这里工作，我说，嘿，我做了一份关于你们所处行业的演示，我希望能与你分享。是的，我喜欢这个。并-

#37：畅销书作者Suneel Gupta与Chris一起讨论如何让你的想法对他人听起来如此吸引人，以至于他们不仅会采纳它们，还会为它们辩护。他们谈到了如何让失败为你工作，为什么信念和讲故事比统计数据更具说服力，为什么你应该停止尝试变得有魅力，以及走额外一里路的力量。Suneel Gupta（@suneel）是《可被支持者：让人们冒险选择你的惊人真相》的畅销书作者。在他职业生涯的某个时候，如果你搜索“失败”，你会找到一篇《纽约时报》的文章，讲述他的故事。他是RISE的创始首席执行官，该应用被苹果评为年度应用，后来被One Medical收购。Suneel后来竞选美国国会，在哈佛大学任教，目前是美方与不丹王国之间的国民幸福总值特使。完整的节目笔记在：https://allthehacks.com/backable-suneel-gupta 合作伙伴优惠有关我们合作伙伴的所有优惠、折扣和促销代码，请访问：allthehacks.com/deals 提到的资源与Suneel联系：网站 | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedIn Suneel的书：《可被支持者：让人们冒险选择你的惊人真相》 《纽约时报》文章，讲述Suneel的失败之旅 LaidOffCamp：Tech Crunch | NPR 完整节目笔记（00:16）Suneel Gupta是谁？（01:38）Chris在2009年被解雇的疯狂故事（02:53）Suneel Gupta的病毒性失败故事（04:30）让失败为你工作（05:50）为什么有一个杰出的想法还不够（07:38）是的，你可以做任何你想做的事情 - 但有一个警告（09:17）为什么在向投资者推销时，设定一个中心角色比统计数据更有力量（14:23）可被支持者都是有魅力的人吗（以及为什么你不应该尝试变得有魅力）？（17:31）如何不太严谨能帮助你（以及你需要的四种人）在你的可被支持者圈子里（26:58）从成功人士的失败中应用经验教训（28:51）成功人士失败中的非显而易见的教训（34:21）将外部人士转变为内部人士（35:55）为你想要掌握的事物建立肌肉记忆（38:31）要问什么而不是“你觉得怎么样”（42:23）为什么你应该拥有更短的演示（50:52）与完全陌生人开始对话并建立融洽关系（57:30）你所散发的能量很重要（59:40）为什么你应该超越他人所做的事情（01:08:15）准备你想带来的能量，并提前指出负面因素（01:13:37）Suneel Gupta现在在做什么（01:16:03）如何与Suneel Gupta联系 与所有黑客联系 所有黑客：新闻通讯 | 网站 | 会员 | 邮箱 Chris Hutchins：Twitter | Instagram | 网站 | LinkedIn 编辑注：本页面的内容截至发布日期是准确的；然而，我们的一些合作伙伴优惠可能已经过期。这里表达的观点仅代表作者本人，并不代表任何银行、信用卡发行者、酒店、航空公司或其他实体的观点。此内容未经过任何帖子中包含的实体审查、批准或其他认可。</context> <raw_text>0 我想在这里工作。现在，有趣的是，这个演示中没有独特的见解。独特的见解可能是，这里有一个关心你公司的人的存在。所以如果我能找到一个独特的见解，那将会更有价值。我只想说，即使没有独特的见解，超越期望也能增加大量价值。

是的，是的。我的意思是，我认为投资者开始倾向于我的Rise想法的原因之一是，当他们发现我去参加减肥者会议并站在会议外面时。人们走进时，我会说，嘿，我有一个新应用的原型。我可以给你演示一下吗？看，大多数人都说不，但偶尔会有人说是。

我从来没有分享过这个故事，因为对我来说有点尴尬。而且，这并不是那种复杂的硅谷获取客户的方法，对吧？我只是一个在街上的人。所以...

但在一次早期会议中，有人问我，像你是如何找到你的第一批客户的？所以我告诉了他这个故事。结果这成为了他最喜欢的推介部分。他说，我喜欢这个。因此我开始强调这一点。然后，是的，这变成了投资者最喜欢的部分，就是把自己放在第一位。

书中有一个故事，讲的是一个名叫Jonathan Karp的出版商，他非常想让Howard Stern写一本书。我和Jonathan谈过，他说，我已经追求Howard Stern写书10年了。

他从来没有愿意。他对我说，听着，我已经有几本畅销书了，写一本书需要很多时间。我不想再写一本书。请让我一个人待着。最后，Jonathan Karp说，听着，我需要做什么才能让他同意？他思考了一下，然后说，

Howard Stern将要写的大多数内容实际上现在已经在外面了。它在他的采访中，因为他在这本书中可能会写关于他为这个节目采访过的最有趣的人。所以Jonathan Karp所做的就是，他实际上将这些采访的记录提取出来，亲自将它们整理成非常易读的内容，然后放入一个皮革封面中。

他出现在Howard Stern的公寓，Howard Stern说，听着，我告诉过你，我不会写这本书。Jonathan Karp说，好吧，这是书，字面上把它递给他。Howard Stern在那一刻所说的是，他被Jonathan Karp在这个过程中的努力深深吸引，以至于他无法拒绝。这太神奇了。也许有一天我会到达那种境地，有人会为我写书并直接递给我。这就是你成功的标志，当有人为你写书时。好吧，在此之前，我们期待着你自己写书，Chris。是的。所以我觉得这个故事回到了我们开始时谈到的，有信念地走出去，去相信你的想法并出现在其他人面前。我想总结一下。

有没有一个故事没有出现在书中，你希望它能出现在书中？是的，有一个主题我一直在玩，我真的想让它成功。但是，你知道，我觉得它还没有准备好。但今天我确实觉得它准备好了，那就是，当我们走进一个房间时，我们是我们带来的信息和我们带来的能量的结合。

而且通常当我们为会议做准备时，我们是在准备信息，但我们并没有真正为能量做准备。我现在在走进房间之前考虑的事情之一是，我希望人们怎么想？我希望人们做什么？但最重要的是，我希望他们在这次会议后有什么感觉？我希望人们有什么感觉？因为我认为Maya Angelou说得最好，人们会忘记你说了什么，人们会忘记你做了什么，但他们永远不会忘记你让他们感受到的方式。

我认为这很重要的原因是，我们现在生活在一个如此紧凑的世界中，尤其是对于那些远程工作的人来说，简单地将日程安排得满满的并连续开会是非常容易的。但是我认为，花几分钟时间休息变得非常重要。

在这些会议之间，实际上是要安排55分钟的会议，而不是60分钟的会议，以便给自己5分钟的时间进行重置，以便重新调整自己的能量状态。因为我们知道我们想在下一个会议中带来什么信息。但如果我们所做的只是积累能量的下降，那么到我们最重要的会议或时刻时，我们可能实际上会把错误的能量带入房间或空间。

所以我认为现在非常重要的是要有我所称的节奏恢复。再次，我的想法是，每55分钟我花5分钟来恢复能量。那可能是做一个呼吸练习，可能是做俯卧撑，但只是做一些事情来重置我的能量，以便我在下一个会议中带来的不是整天发生的负面事情的积累。是的。

我喜欢这个。我还想补充一个有趣的事情，有人曾经告诉我，你可能会处于一个必须把负面能量带入会议的情况。你迟到了10分钟。你上一个会议非常糟糕。你得走。有人曾经，我记不得了，有点像交通信号灯的方法，但基本上是，当你进入会议时，如果你有负面能量，就直接说出来。

有时这可以改变动态。你可以说，嘿，大家，我只是想让你们知道我上一个会议真的很糟糕。我心情不太好，但我真的很高兴能在这里。所以如果这传达出来，请知道这与这次会议无关。你可以这样... 我在演示中也经常使用这个。指出可能是个问题的事情。嘿...

我没有数据证明我的客户会这样做，使用这个产品。如果这是个问题，我可以现在就停止。然后你可以把任何负面能量或你的业务或提案中不奏效的部分推到一边，把它摆在前面。这样人们就可以在整个对话中把它从心头抛开。是的，是的。我的意思是，Reid Hoffman给我讲了一个很棒的故事。他是LinkedIn的创始人。他告诉我，

在2003年，他正在推销公司，但这正好是在网络泡沫破裂不久之后，对吧？现在他有一家公司没有一分钱的收入，而所有投资者想要的都是赚钱的公司。所以他在外面推销，他在推销LinkedIn，

他所说的其中一件事在那段时间真的救了他，就是他会迎合反对意见。他直面没有收入的反对意见。所以在开始之前，他会说，听着，在我们讨论所有的优点和我认为你应该投资的所有理由之前，我想提前告诉你，我们现在没有收入。但接下来，我将谈论我认为在未来几年中我们可能能够做到的三种方式。

我将分享我有的三个想法。因此，这三个想法并不是万无一失的，它们并不完全稳固。但他说，仅仅通过提前分享这个，迎合反对意见，这让他获得了很多信誉，因为他愿意自己把这个摆出来。然后，Chris，正因为他这样做，那种反对意见就不再困扰他们了，因为如果他没有说，

那么他们没有赚钱的想法就会一直困扰他们。所以他本可以谈论酷产品、酷功能、他们想做的所有酷事、网络效应。但与此同时，他们会一直被困扰。而现在他已经把这摆出来，他们实际上可以专注于他推介中更强的部分。

是的，这太棒了。好的。我觉得如果你想要更多这样的内容，直接读这本书就好了。我不会再深入挖掘了。太棒了。我实际上听了这本书。你是旁白，这有点奇怪。我听到你讲故事，我想，天哪，我听过这个故事，但这是因为我听你读书，而不是因为我们谈过。

所以我只想知道，你写的书。今年早些时候出版。接下来是什么？你现在在花时间做什么？是的，是的。我的意思是，我正在与HarperCollins合作的下一本书完全是关于能量的。你知道的，完全是关于我们如何获得更多能量？我正试图做与《可被支持者》相同的事情，

跳过显而易见的，跳过显而易见的饮食、睡眠，开始进入一些隐藏的东西。我发现这不仅让我进入现代科学，还让我回到古老的智慧，许多我们在途中失去的东西。我们可能称之为气的艺术，或印度教徒称之为普拉那。

有很多我们似乎已经失去的东西，我认为在忙碌的社会中，我们没有考虑到。但有些人我认为已经成为能够管理他们的能量，而不仅仅是他们的时间的高手，他们为世界做了不可思议的事情。因此，我正在研究这些人。我正在研究这些技术。我正在研究科学。我的想法是将所有这些汇聚成一本任何人都可以使用的、如何提升他们能量的连贯书籍。是的。

太棒了。你知道，你上次说你开始进行这些采访，书出版前的几年。我们可能还要等多久才能读到这本书？这本书会快一点。这本书会快一点。我的意思是，这是我考虑了很长时间的事情。而且我甚至在写《可被支持者》的时候收集了研究。这一直是我感兴趣的话题。你知道，尤其是，我不知道你对这个感觉如何，Chris，但我确实觉得我能量减少了。

是的。

他们是更多还是更少？他们更多，对吗？所以毫不奇怪，人们很快就会感到精疲力竭。过去你会听说人们在40多岁和50多岁时感到精疲力竭。而现在，青少年和20多岁的人也在感到精疲力竭。并且发生得更快。因此，我认为我们只是需要对此有一个答案。所以有紧迫感。我想把它推出去。显然，做真正的工作，深入研究。但我的想法是明年推出，如果不算明年初。是的。

太好了。我迫不及待想要看到。人们可以在哪里关注你正在做的事情和你的动态？是的，你可以去我的网站。就是sunilgupta.com，或者在社交媒体上关注我。我在Instagram上是sunilgupta，在Twitter上是sunil。我会在那里见到你。太棒了。好吧，这里将有很多节目笔记。所以请查看这些。谢谢你，Suneel。非常感谢你在这里。这太棒了，Chris。非常感谢你邀请我。

那真是太棒了。非常感谢你的倾听。我迫不及待想开始使用Suneel的一些策略，因为我在不断发展我在所有黑客做的一切。如果你有想法、问题，或者只是想打个招呼，可以联系我：[email protected]。请查看我们的新闻通讯，网址是allthehacks.com/email。这就是本周的内容。下周见。</raw_text>