Business Scaling Workshop Live Q&A | Ep 827
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Hey, Ox. Hello. My name is Rick, and I sell financial planning services to young big tech employees, W2 employees.

We do about half a million in revenue. I'd love to be at five million within the next three years or so. And what's currently stopping me is just a time resource management issue where I'm currently doing the fulfillment of meeting with our clients and I hired a new full-time associate planner to start to take over those relationships. And so I think my current constraint is figuring out how to replicate teams as I continue to grow the business.

We're doing, relatively, we're just doing organic marketing content, mostly on LinkedIn. And write a daily blog, which I post to the website, and an email list, a small email list. How many sales a month did you do? About two. Two sales a month. And is the model like 1% assets under management? No, and that was another question that I wanted to get your thoughts on was...

One of the big swings that I took about four or five years ago is to change the traditional financial planning model. So instead of charging the 1% AUM fee, we charge a 25 basis point AUM fee and then a monthly subscription, which is 275. So it nets out to be about 5,000 per client per year on an annual basis. And then obviously bigger clients pay more on the AUM. Interesting.

- Okay, got it. Okay, so typically with your type of business, they're usually demand constrained, not supply constrained. Like managing lots of people and lots of money usually doesn't actually take too many resources relative to how much they make you. And so I think that the biggest issue is probably just acquisition. So getting two sales a month is probably the big bottleneck. And so I would, so what's the big incentive for someone to get on the phone with you?

You mean what's in it for them? Like why do they contact us? Initiatives to get their financial house in order. We do a lot around getting people's financial independence by age 50. Yeah. Retire for a million dollars. Yeah, fire movement. Yeah. Real well. So as much as you may hate what I'm about to say, there's a reason that all the big dogs do the same exact playbook.

which is they run to either virtual or they run to in-person workshops. Because in one or two days, or even a half day, you can gain a lot more trust than a very long time online. And I would probably use that as my lead magnet. Because sometimes, for a lot of you guys, one of the biggest levers you can have,

When we unlock like an easy 5X, it's usually something at the very front where it's just like we just swap the lead magnet from like, hey, book a call to hey, get this thing and then a call just happens to be part of it or a workshop happens to be the vehicle for delivering that outcome. And when we do that, like that's when all of a sudden your lead flow goes from making two sales a month to eight or 10. And I think that for me, that would be the biggest issue. Now you managing...

I think you just need more cash flow, which more customers will help you with, and then you can get an account manager who can run those relationships. But most relationship guys can handle many, many, many customers. Because people don't, I mean, also the higher up you go, they tend to, in my experience, actually need less. Yeah, that is true. We meet with people on a monthly basis. Is that required?

It is sort of like our our sort of bread and butter so where we do a lot of accountability a lot of like coaching a lot of like is that for them to like save more money and stuff save more money save on taxes tax projections and manage I think you're I think you're under under charging and over not over delivering but doing too much. Yeah Like meeting every month that's almost like personal finance coaching More than like wealth management. Yeah, because I feel like those are two different offers. I

So it's like there's the Dave Ramsey of like, hey, stop spending money, silly pants. And then there's the like, once I have money, what do I do with it? And I feel like you're kind of blending those, but you're doing both services and pricing like one, but like lower. So I think...

12 meetings a year is a lot. Most of the wealth management firms that come through here, one, maybe. - Quarterly at most. - Right. And so you're doing 12 times the work and billing less. So unless you had a tech enabled way of making that the model, I would change the pricing.

- Okay. - 'Cause fundamentally, you're either the volume player and you have tech built in since day one and the entire model is around cost efficiency or you're premium. There's really not a lot of room in between. Best for least, it's a hard time for people to perceive that value. So I just think you're doing way too much.

Can I ask you this? One of the reasons why I designed it that way was so that we could fish further upstream than most financial planning firms. So we start to work with people in their early 30s, right? Sure. When they're making a few hundred grand a year. And then a lot of those relationships that blossom into people doing big things at Meta, making five million a year, right? Do you think that's a smart play or is that too much? I don't think it's dumb.

you have two elements. You have a personal finance thing and you have an investing thing. And you're getting the people who are younger with the personal finance thing and they don't have enough assets to make their AUM really worth it. Right. And so like,

I would probably have a more traditional private wealth management model. And if you just find out that you can acquire customers really easily on personal finance much more easily than you can here, but then the ascension is much higher, then that's a great model. I think that's a really interesting play. But I think trying to combine both of them in terms of both the delivery and the pricing, I think that's where it feels off to me. Okay. All right. Interesting. All right. Appreciate it.

So I just blew your shit up. So I apologize. We have a whole year, so you're good. Go for it.

How you doing? My name is Luke Devins. I sell pressure washing, gutter cleaning to homeowners. I did 810,000 last year. This coming year, I want to do one five, then the following three. So we're kind of throughout this, we switched to the subscription model. That's what everyone's been suggesting. So how do now I get into neighborhoods?

or allocate resources? Because a lot of people are saying, just do one channel, but then we do a lot of door hangers, yard signs, and I feel like that all kind of goes into one with ads. How would you rush neighborhoods and home service? - So can you restate the question?

- Yeah, like how would you spend your marketing money if you wanna get as many on this yearly subscription? - Currently how are you acquiring customers? - Just old school yard signs, door hangers, referrals, stuff like that. - What stops you from doing 10 times more of that?

- Probably just people. - Okay, so then people become-- - Yeah, 'cause I do a lot of it myself. - Okay, got it. So then, so what's the return, what's the, do you know what your LTV to CAC is on, I guess you said-- - It's right at 10. - 10, and that's with your time being free? - Yeah. - Okay, so if you paid someone full time to do that, do you know how much that would impact your ROAS? - Someone would probably be about 50, 60 grand, like a sales guy.

- Okay, so wait, you're knocking on doors and getting the business? - Yeah. - Got it. And then the truck follows you and then does the work or whatever? - Yep. - Got it.

You'll have, so I think in the beginning you'll have to keep stacking the subscriptions so that you can generate the cashflow. Cause then you'll have the, basically the for sure business. And then once that starts stacking, then you'll have the cashflow to hire the other sales guy who's going to be able to take over your role. Thing is most order door guys need to make like decent money cause it's terrible. Yeah. And so like you'll probably need to be like, they'll probably need to make like, I mean a decent, I mean how many sales a day can you make?

- Anywhere from like eight to 10. - Okay, okay, yeah. So I think, I mean, one of those guys could easily, if you can pay him, shoot, 50, 100 bucks a sale, they can make a thousand bucks a day. I think you'd be able to get somebody to be able to do that for you. - Would you like sprinkle in some type of like Facebook or Instagram or Google?

- I just don't want to add complexity, because right now you have limited resources, and so I'd rather just do more of that thing, rather than be like, oh, on top of that, now I have to start calling leads, and have to create a whole, like, the online world and then working those leads is a whole different monster, versus like, you're right here, you say yes, I call truck, we clean shit, I get money.

It's good business, right? - Just keep it easy. - Yeah, I would rather you keep it easy. Long term, if you were like, hey, I've got 15 trucks for the city or whatever and I've got 15 teams that are out doing it, then I'd be like, yeah, I think having a canvassed top of funnel kind of awareness, stuff that generates leads in a centralized phone team that can then also proactively send trucks out to people that you already sold over the phone, I think that makes sense. But given the fact you already know the script, you already know the process,

I'd rather you just stack some of the recurring so you have the cash to bring the new guy in. That being said, if you get a little bit more generous on the commissions, you could probably get someone to pay work commission only. So then you wouldn't have to take the risk on it. - Okay, okay. - So I revised my original answer. Do that. - Thank you. - Yes sir.

- How you doing? Carter Cofield, we sell tax and financial services to high income entrepreneurs. We do about $9 million in revenue. I would like to be at 25 million by the end of this year. What's stopping us, so I know what the constraint is, people, we need more advisors to service our clients, we need a faster onboarding process to do more five day virtual events, you got that. I don't think it takes the whole company to fix that constraint, I think it's HR, CSMs, operations. Is it okay to have

the rest of the company focus on a different constraint or would that like kill team morale? How do you balance constraints across, basic constraints across the departments? - That's a really good question. I've gone back and forth on this, so maybe there isn't a right answer. But I would say that in the season that I'm currently in,

I believe that there is one constraint, and if we solve that constraint, the business will grow. And so I want everybody to know that this is what we're working on. And what ends up happening is that you see the other fires that are burning, and then that actually creates more urgency to fix the first one. When you try and fix them in parallel, it ends up taking longer to do both than to do one and then the other, because the whole team knows. It's like, but there's this other fire burning. And you're like, right, then fix the fucking first one. And so then it just orients the whole team. And then also that means that if something has to happen

the whole team is greasing the tracks to make sure that this objective gets pushed forward. Because there's so many supporting and ancillary things to get some big thing done that if they're like, well, we have our priority, I think that's what gets in the way. That's what we see. It's like, well, sales has this priority, but the operations, this is not a priority for us right now.

So we call it the silent sixth, which is basically like every business has their priorities for the year or whatever. The silent sixth one is that we have to keep selling, we have to keep doing business, right? So those things always have to continue. But what is the one thing that matters most? I think it's Jack Slutman, he has a good book on this. But I'll give you the TLDR of the book, is that he was a big believer or is a big believer in not having three objectives or five objectives but just one.

And he said, "Basically, if you can't get clear "that one thing is more important than everything, "then that's your fault as an entrepreneur." And so I see like if we're the chief allocators of resources, then it means we have to be able to prioritize, and if we can't do it, how can we expect our teams to?

which means we have to be able to say, this is more important than that, and yes, they are both important, but this one is more important. And I think that that kind of betting perspective has served me really well, being very violent with like, this is the most important, and I've just noticed that things get done way faster, because then it's like, hey, when we do this, then we can do this next thing. And then everybody wants to do the next thing too. And then when we do the next thing, all, we move, you know, we part the seas to get that done. - I like that, thank you. - Yeah. It also, in service of what I was talking about earlier,

when you have that perspective, it also minimizes all the other changes that you're making across the company too. Because you're like, that's not a priority. Could we improve this thing? Probably. Do we need to right now? No. It's not the constraint. Yes, ma'am. - Hi. - Hello. - I'm Ashley Stahl. My agency is Wise Whisper. - Wise Whisperer. - Wise Whisperer, yeah.

We write and we book TED Talks for people, specifically entrepreneurs. We talked yesterday. We did 1.3 last year, and we actually think and want to do 10 next year just because of ads and the infrastructure we've built. And it seems actually quite feasible just based on it. But I was talking a lot to Jacob about closing and getting good closers that's stopping me. But beneath that, I started thinking about the contract and

And everybody wants to feel like we're guaranteeing them their Ted talk and we have a hundred percent success, but because we existed during COVID and our average time to book went from 10 months to 20 months to get somebody their talk. I feel scared to offer a guarantee when I'm not Ted. And so I just want to show my track record. Are they Ted or TEDx? TEDx. Okay. Got it. Yeah. So any, any insight on guarantees? Yeah. This is a math problem. Yeah.

I'll tell you a story that applied to a home services business not that long ago. He was really scared to raise prices.

But he wasn't making any money and he was closing 80%. So I was like, hey man, please raise prices. And so he decided to raise prices. But to get him to raise prices, I said, so here's the deal. I said, what are the biggest concerns of a customer? He said, well, it's on time and on budget. I was like, all right, how many times are you on time and on budget? He said, eight out of 10. I said, what happens the other two times? He said, one time they'll change what their requirements are. They'll say they actually want their kitchen to be twice as big or whatever. I said, okay. He said, the other time I won't get materials in time. And I can't control that. I said, all right.

So what if we write the guarantee so it's You're gonna raise your price by 20% Just what we did and said and if you don't deliver on time You're going to give the client the entirety of your profit right which right now is you make no money anyways So like we can say so it's like if I don't deliver on time and on budget I will give you all my profit which is 20% of this deal off so that's why so that's the guarantee and

By switching to that, he closed way more people and made way more money. And so the fear around guarantee, I think, is justified. But if you just look at the math and you're like, oh, I can close twice as many people and I have to give one out of 10 back, you made way more money. So I think just do the math on it. Yeah, I think it's just fear, like fear of being on the hook if there's like another pandemic and I have like 400 TED Talks. Yeah. Breathing, yeah. Well, you already went through a pandemic. Yeah, exactly. So you already know what you do. Yeah, and with your gym numbers, I have no excuse. Yeah. Okay, thank you so much. You bet.

- Hello Alex. - Yeah. - My name's Nick Page. So I own a fitness studio. - Cool. - We just surpassed a million in revenue. - Congrats. - And thank you. - Personal training or semis or group? - Large group. - Large group, okay. - So if I'm being honest, I would like to be at 50 million. So honestly what I think's stopping me is looking at my business just like-- - You need 49 more gyms. - Yeah, exactly.

So, and I honestly don't, this is like something that, I don't know if it's a belief, right? Yeah. Looking at my business as an investor. Sure. My LTV to CAC is, I mean, two to one. I mean, we can get it to three to one. Looking at the market and realizing that the fitness studio space is becoming a red market. It's very tough. I don't.

Know if I personally think it's a smart investment in my time to try to continue to grow my gym. We're profitable I have a great team and I'm like, maybe I'll just sell it in one to two years and then I'm like So like I just read the book how to make a couple billion by Brad Jacobs and he talks about getting

you know, ahead of the trend, which I think you've done a great job of. So when I like read that, think like an investor and then I look at my business, I'm just like. - This ain't it? - Yeah. I'm kind of at this point where I'm like, when people are like, this is great, why don't you scale? I'm like, you don't fucking understand it, so. - I get it. He's like, this sucks. - It's like, everything's great, but it's like, do you even start now? So, I mean,

What do you think I should do? If you were me, what-- - If you wanna make $50 million, the likelihood that you get it there from a large group studio is very low. So if that's the goal, then you probably wanna have a different vehicle. And so you can, I would say that if I was in your position, you have one of two paths. There's like a really close adjacent path, which would be like, I do believe that the best fitness model right now is the small group. - Right now? - Hm? - Yeah. - I think it's the best model that's on the market right now. And so you could,

change your existing model to that and that one gets exceptional returns on capital and is a very operationally easy model to run. And so that would be like

The reason I kind of like that for you is because it already borrows from a huge amount of your existing skill set and knowledge base. And that is a good vehicle. So that's option one. Option two is you just try something brand new, which I have very little insight into. What of the unlimited opportunities could you pursue, all of them or one of them?

transforming what you have into, I mean, fundamentally I think that's why you're here, or at least I would be if I were you, is like, how do I make this, how do I turn the thing that I have into the thing that I want? And I think that you can do it with a lot fewer steps than you expect. You'll probably have, you know, six months where there's a little bit of turbulence of like people being upset because you changed the rules of the game on them. But unless the facility that you have right now like precludes you in some way from, you know, delivering that other model, I would say that that's probably a very,

Look the lowest risk highest likelihood path. Yeah Yeah, because my head just goes everywhere like yeah another let me let me give you something This is the first year in my entire life where I haven't had FOMO. I haven't had it It's really weird and I noticed I noticed that I didn't have it only at the end of the year and I was like Oh, wow

That's weird. And I think it's because I finally realized how fucking hard it is to do anything. And when I see someone who's like crushing it, like a friend of mine made 50 million in crypto this year and it's not his main business, it's a side hustle. And I was just like,

Okay, noted. And so then I thought to myself, I was just like, good for him. I was like, I'm not going to get into it. That's not my game. You know what I mean? But he's like, dude, the school deal is fucking monster. And I was like, I know, it's awesome, but that's the game I know. You know what I mean? And so it's not even the comparisons to the Thief of Joy thing. I think it's just that

Learning to play a game really well takes a really long time and accepting that, like one of the saddest things about life for me has been that like I'm only gonna have like maybe three or four more entrepreneurial seasons in me and that's really sad 'cause it means I only have three or four more big swings and it's like shoot, I have all these

all of these things that I want to do in my life, but I only get to pick three or four more. Maybe, maybe, right? And so I think that just getting comfortable with the idea that there will always be people who make more, and even if you are Paul Getty and become the richest man in the world, everyone will forget anyways. And so just context, right? That...

There's nothing wrong with having six months where you reconfigure what you're doing to then say this is what I'm gonna do for the next five or 10 and then you're set for life. And then you can do whatever you want. - Thanks. - You bet. - How you doing, Alex? - Good. - Name is Josh Hadley. We sell on Amazon e-commerce. We talked last night. Primarily stationary products, so calendars, planners, educational posters. We did 12.5 million last year.

Like to be at 50 million and even get to 100 million. That's kind of the trajectory. I look at your preamble earlier, right? So increase your number of customers, do more of what's been working for you. And I have a podcast in the e-commerce space. Ideally want to be like you when I grow up, but in the e-commerce space. I want to be like you, so we're all good. But with that being said, our number one priority for growth has always been

Find more products, opportunities on Amazon, launch those products. That's been our biggest growth lever. - How many SKUs do you have? - 1600, so we've got a lot.

It's all stationary. My wife designs it all, right? All stationary. All stationary. I'm sure I bought something from you. Probably. Probably own that whole category. Okay. Yeah, keep going. So we've looked at, and Amazon's a cruel mistress in terms of decreasing profit margins. Sure. Right? They're increasing fees. And I see over the next decade, you look at Amazon, you're going to be happy with single digit profit margins. It just becomes so competitive.

So with that being said, we've got on to TikTok shop, right? We've had some success there. Took 10% of our sales this year already. We've then taken the videos that go viral on TikTok, we run meta ads on them, and we finally cracked Shopify for the first time. We've got a five ROAS on that, right? So we're doing that. I also look at wholesale. We briefly mentioned distribution in our conversation yesterday.

So as I look at like our number one priority for growth has always been do more of what's worked, which has been launch products to serve whatever crap people are looking for on Amazon. Yeah. But I also have these things that are boiling up that I'm like, man, I think this can really help things. TikTok actually is supporting all of our Amazon. Yeah. Increasing organic rankings just because people will search by it. Right. Yeah.

So how do I communicate that to the team? Because it's like, we still got to keep doing research in the back. Yeah, so that's the silent sixth. That's the silent sixth, right? So we're going to continue to make the sausage. We're going to continue to do the proven winning strategy. And that's kind of, that's the core. That's the base. We're not going to threaten the base to try and pursue the new thing. But if you do see one of those writing on the walls type situations where you're like, my margins are going to compress, et cetera, et cetera,

then it makes sense to make your one big bet of the year. Let's say it's TikTok. And I mean, to be fair, it's not that much more work to just take the same ads and then run them on Shopify. And then that becomes the objective of the year, which I would probably just put into owned customer list is probably how I would just categorize that for the team. I feel like that's it. So what was the actual question? Yeah, I mean that, so you talked about

That being like, hey, this is the one thing we're doing, right? Because we've got 25 team members already. They're all serving that one thing, which is finding and launching new products. It can be you and a small team. And I've got a small other team. My follow-up question to this has been, because I was talking earlier about go hire a director of marketing that can go run this whole TikTok side, all of the Shopify stuff that we want to do. I've been doing a lot of it myself.

And almost my reluctance to go hire somebody is like, well, then what else do I do in the business? You know what I mean? I'll make you a promise, and I don't make promises often. I promise that if you replace what you were doing, you will find something else to do. Well, I know that. Well, then I will double down on that because I've got this other e-commerce thing. Ideally, a decade from now, I've got to win, and I can go do this exact same thing you're doing, but in the e-commerce space, right? Yeah.

To me, I'm always like, oh, go do more speaking on stages. Go start building my own personal brand. It's kind of what I gravitate towards. That wouldn't be my priority. I think get the win.

Say it differently, take it to the natural logical extreme. So you do lots of stage stuff and then the main business suffers and then you don't get the W. Then you're just an airbag, right? If you, on the flip side, you don't do any speaking and you get the win, all those doors open tenfold. And so what matters more? The win. So get the win.

Easy enough. I do think that with your audience that you have, you'd be able to very easily headhunt a really savage director of marketing who's already done e-commerce for TikTok shop or Shopify. And I'd probably do it on your podcast. I'd be like, hey, I'm looking for a savage. Like read Ernest Shackleton's ad about looking for men, low chance of survival. Just like this is a dangerous place to work. And I think you will attract the right people. Awesome. Yeah. And don't be afraid to pay them a lot. Okay. Thank you.

Yes, ma'am. Hey, I'm Bree. I'm from Tennessee. My sister's over there. Hi, Bree's sister. We sell residential construction to middle-aged women who like to spend their husband's money. Love it. You got to know your avatar. Yeah. We've done $100K in revenue in one year. Cool. Awesome.

We would like to get to 3 million, ideally in two years. I think it's pretty realistic and easy in construction. And I think what's stopping us is scaling and potentially niching down. So after these workshops, that's what we feel like is the right thing. And we wanted to get your feedback on potentially niching down to bathrooms. There's a two-week turnaround. Yeah. And it's a pretty standard. I can already tell you I like it. You do? Yeah. You like it? So it's high margin? Yeah, 42%.

Yeah. And it's fast. Two weeks. It's easy to sell. I think we can get it a little bit lower. Yeah. No, so with a lot of, it's interesting because like in like app development or software shops, it's actually really, it's just digital construction versus like physical world construction, but they have the same issues. Hey,

I don't want to get into it, but yeah, they have the same issues. And so in almost all of those situations, I end up saying like, okay, what aspect of app development or what types of apps or what type of development do you do or what types of construction do you specialize in or that you have, like that you absolutely nail? And usually it's like, it's something like this, like, you know, we crush cabinets or like we're really good at countertops or really good at bathrooms or really good at whatever, right? And then zeroing on that, you'd be amazed at how much more responsive your advertising, your advertisements will be.

prospects to your advertisements, because then you can show before and afters on bathrooms. It gets much more niched down, and then people who are coming in and calling are like, that's what I want. And you're like, cool, let me just take your money and I'll give it to you. So do you think if we're saying no to the larger projects, which is still holding a 42% margin, we can do more of those, but they take longer time, you still think it's a better option to do the quicker thing?

- Well, what do you make on a bathroom? - So for a custom shower, it might be 10K, it might be $4,200. A full bathroom in Tennessee is probably about 14. - Okay, how many of those can you, I mean, how many can you fulfill right now at max? Five a month? - Our max is five a month.

Okay. And that's today. I think we could fulfill double right now with our crew and then we'd have to build fulfillment. Yeah. I don't want you to turn off how you get customers because you need to make money.

And just for everybody, when you're really small and you're starting out, it's normal to basically accept money from anyone. You're like, "Do you have a pulse and a credit card? "You're for me."

So it's normal, but what I would like you to do though, you can take those jobs, but in terms of what you're being deliberate about, your advertising, if you start running ads on Facebook and show some of those images to generate leads and sell, I would focus on that. And if you think that that, because you should be able to pencil out in five minutes, can we make more money from this

If you feel like your sister, she was very, very convicted about this. Okay. Yeah. So if you can make a lot more money, if you can sell a lot, yeah, a lot more money selling bathrooms and you can sell way more of them. And the, cause then the transaction, the, the, the deal cycle is shorter. It's, you know, you walk there, you quote, you close. Like it's, it's, it's very straightforward. Um, I like those types of businesses. Yeah. Don't worry.

Keep the money coming, but focus there. And then over time, the coloring of your money will shift and you'll be at like 80% will be bathrooms. And then you'll just be like, okay, now we're going to, there'll be a time where you'll be able to say, we don't need this anymore just to get the focus. So I just want you to like shift it over time. Does that make sense? Okay.

Yes, sir. Hey, Alex. Kevin with Asset Protection Planners. I set up Asset Protection Trust to people in lawsuits. Sweet. In lawsuits actively. Yeah. Well, there you go. Or before. Yeah. And we do $11 million in revenue. Awesome. And I'd like to be at $25. Okay. And I think two things. One, they add the pay-per-click costs are great.

through the roof, eating up a lot of the profit. And two, finding people who really can sell and understand legal concepts, both. Super common. Yeah. Okay, so those are two separate problems. Yeah. Which one's the bigger problem? Currently, it's the ad costs are going through the roof. Just PPC? Yeah, PPC.

Well, I mean, if you're bidding for those terms, the only way to win because it's an auction is going to be you increasing LTV. But I'm guessing you're selling relatively expensive packages. We are. Yeah. So I don't know how much room you have there. So I would probably, if I wanted to solve the acquisition problem, I would probably be looking at another paid ad option.

way of running ads. So PPC for everyone here, typically pretty good returns, very consistent. It's really nice because once you set it, you can kind of forget it, kind of. Well, definitely compared to social ads that are interruption-based, you have to refresh all the time. But I think that may be actually the next thing though, is that I think you might have to look at interruption-based paid ads rather than inbound intent-based. Yeah.

Because honestly, the only other thing that you could really do is just start going top of funnel more. Because what percentage is people who are in lawsuits versus people who are not in lawsuits? About 50-50. Okay. Yeah, so then I would imagine that where your growth will come is from the people who are not in lawsuits because there's way more people there than in lawsuits. True.

PPC is going to be intent, red hot pain, they're going to come in the buy quickly. Whereas the people who are preventative obviously take a little bit more education. That's where it's actually very similar to the finance thing I was saying earlier. We're pushing to either virtual or in-person events, giving away lots of information, right? For selling more complex products, it tends to do really, really well in your space. And so I would probably go social ads to workshop, virtual or in-person. Yeah.

and then sell from there into your stuff. That would probably be my strategy if you wanted to get to 25, because you probably can't increase your spend on PPC that much more anyways. True. Like webinars, things like that. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah, so you can do them virtually or you can do them in person if you want. Cool. Because if you do it in person, where are you out of?

- Florida. - Florida? Yeah, I mean you could probably run a 50 mile radius in Florida and do an in-person one and people would still show. So that would be like a, 'cause it's much easier to get people to, it's a very easy funnel for in-person if you're local. Like it's literally just lead gen, call, schedule, remind the hell out of them, expect 20, 25% to show up of your leads, 20, call it. And then from there, you'll close a third of the room.

- Great. - I mean, that's a very simple model. So I'd probably start there. And then as you kind of like get more familiar with it, get the pitch down, et cetera, then you can go online and then do The Nation. - Great, great. - That help? - Thanks, man. - Yeah, you bet. Real quick guys, I have a special, special gift for you for being loyal listeners of the podcast.

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