Episode 44: Running with Friends Series; Fall Race Recaps
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Welcome to Chasing Life podcast, where we talk about fitness, running, career, and life tips to inspire you to live your best life. I'm your host, Sarah Kane, and I hope you enjoy today's episode. Welcome to another episode of Chasing Life. Today's guest is Leti for our Running with Friends series. And today we're going to talk about our recent races, give some race recaps. Welcome Leti. Hi, Sarah, and thank you for having me.

I'm excited for us to catch up on our races. Absolutely. Race recaps are my favorites. So Leti, you ran the Berlin Marathon recently. How did it go? Tell me all the things. Oh my gosh, I don't even know where to start. I'm still glowing from it, even though it was already almost two weeks ago. Let's start with your traveling. How did the traveling go to get to Germany? How did you get settled in with a hotel? How did kind of all your pre-race stuff go? What was that like?

Everything felt kind of rushed because when you're coming from the East coast of the U S you don't get there till the next day. Unless I guess if you were left super early, they don't really have those flights from here. So I left midday and I got there the next day and I didn't leave until.

Thursday which didn't get me in until Friday afternoon and the race was Sunday so given that it felt a little bit rushed to try to fly all the way over there you know you're kind of a little bit nervous to make sure you don't miss any connections because a friend of mine she missed her connection and got into Germany a little bit later than she should have and missed another connection because she didn't fly directly into the Berlin just like me so you know it's a little

is a little bit nerve wracking. And then you kind of have to deal with the whole, okay, I got to check into my hotel and then I got to run to the expo and not just go to the expo to get your bib number, but also make sure that my COVID test is appropriate and all that jargon. So in retrospect, I would not have left on Thursday. I

I would have left on Wednesday just to give myself that extra day. Yeah, that totally makes sense that it just seems like a really quick turnaround. I mean, you already have a lot kind of going on in your mind with, you know, the itinerary, the logistics, the time change, all that stuff. And you basically only have like 36 hours between when you land in the country and when you are racing. So yeah, it's definitely very quick.

Yes, it felt rushed. And then, like I said, with the expo and then anything else is a bonus of making you more nervous. And I'm not a nervous person at all. I'm super laid back, but that kind of

you know, makes you realize you got to plan a little bit more. I'm not the biggest planner. Leading up to race day, you had a couple of things that threw maybe a wrench in your plan or just you had to do some last minute scrambling. Can you tell us about that? Are you talking about injury or the watch part? Because I have two. Okay. So

I was on a great plan to run something around a 310. And then unfortunately, with high mileage, walking on a thin line with injuries at this whole 80 miles per week, I figured out for myself that that's probably not my ideal mileage because it's a little bit too close to the edge.

And unfortunately, I started experiencing a lot of ankle pain and stiffness on my left ankle, which for the last two weeks of my training, I couldn't do any speed work and I barely ran. I just looked at it as an extended taper because I know you can't really gain more fitness in that small amount of time, but it just...

You know, made you kind of wary. I don't know if I can actually finish this race and how I can finish it because it was pretty painful. But, you know, I decided I'm just going to mask it up, maybe do what I tell people not to do, take some aspirins and put some duct tape on it and run with it anyway. So that was one. And the other one was a big surprise. Friday night in Germany, I tried to plug in my Apple Watch, which I've been a great advocate for.

And if anyone is familiar with Apple products, I saw the little Apple logo flashing and it wouldn't turn on. It was this black screen. So I was super nervous about it because I needed it for pacing and I had to jiggle it around. And then finally, four hours later, this is 3:00 AM on Saturday morning. Needless to say, I didn't sleep. The Apple watch came back on. So then I was happy.

So I, you know, scratched my plans to go to the Apple store and do all sorts of things that I had planned on doing. And then I went to a shakeout run instead. And in the middle of my shakeout run, my Apple watch completely stopped again. So, so then I knew I couldn't trust it.

And I knew I wasn't going to be able to run with it. I talked to my husband. He said, why do you run? I said, I run because I love it. And so then he said, you know what? Just love it then and stop looking at watch. Look around. You flew all the way to Germany to look at your watch. No, to look at the sights.

So I agreed with that and I decided I'm just going to chase the 315 pacers as much as I can and keep them, you know, somewhere close by and just run by feel, which, you know, I didn't know how I was going to feel with the whole foot thing. And then also I was going to look at my phone every once in a while. That was the plan.

Then some girl from a Facebook group from the Berlin Marathon texted me and said, I have an extra garment that you can use. So I said, oh my gosh, this is so amazing. So I get the garment from her at 10 p.m. the night before the marathon, which I should have been sleeping already, but I wasn't. And then before I passed out, I was messing with it, making sure I switched it from kilometers to miles and

Just to find out the next day during the race that even though I'd made that switch, the system was ran in European. The systems from Garmin are different and it showed everything in kilometers anyway, which I have no idea what a 430 kilometer an hour is. So I just didn't even look at that watch. So that was that fun story.

Yeah, that's a lot going on, like 24 hours before a race. And so that's not even all of it, Sarah. So also in order to fly back to the States, you have to get a PCR test. My flight was on Monday. So I had booked a PCR test at the expo, which I went to on Friday.

but they didn't take my PCR test because I didn't have a passport with me. So I had to travel back to the expo on Saturday too. I mean, everything I had planned just kind of derailed and I just went with it. And, you know, luckily Berlin has great public transportation, but as, as you know, I grew up in Germany, but I wasn't used to how long it takes anymore. And it takes like 40 minutes to travel a distance of two and a half miles. You can probably run it fast. I mean, hopefully run it faster. So it's just,

a lot of time was spent, you know, just navigating. So makes you appreciate where you live really.

I don't even know like how I would have handled all of those last minute. Oh my gosh, my watch died in scrambling. Yeah. To go back and forth to the expo and try to, you know, have your mind in the right spot for a race, especially a world major race like this. So much going on. Well, the funny thing that happened after I had talked to my husband and some other friends over in Germany, you know, all of a sudden, and this is after the shakeout run, um,

I felt like I had zero pressure on me anymore because of my foot, because of the watch. And I actually began to enjoy the process a lot more, which makes me realize had I chased, you know, had I completed my training and chased the 310 pace more, I don't know if I would have enjoyed it as much. My fitness was great. I still had a great finishing time, but I

I really, really loved the race and the experience because I didn't feel nervous anymore because I said, you know what, this is what happens and I'm just going to deal with it and I'm going to enjoy it.

So I think that that really, really helped me actually. Now, you know, I just, I feel like I'm going to approach running differently from now on. Sounds like it was a good lesson, but also still kind of a lot to go through. It was, but in retrospect, I mean, because how lucky are we? We get to travel all over the world for these marathons. So who am I to sit there and complain about it? You had a great finishing time.

About what? Six seconds from your personal best marathon time. Actually, I didn't realize that at all. I passed the brand burger gate, which if, if you're not familiar with the race, I want to say the finish line is maybe a quarter or 0.2 miles, or maybe 0.1, something a short distance after the gate. So you cross the, you go through the gate.

And then you see the finish line. And I looked at my watch finally for the first time in a long time, because the watch still had the time that had been running on it. And I realized it was showing 317. I knew my PR was somewhere in the 318s. I thought it would be like 31840 or something like that. I didn't realize it was a 31813. So then I decided, okay,

I'm going to be close to my finishing time. Let's sprint. And I finished six seconds slower, which makes me kind of, you know, regret having stopped because my bib number is

I had it on my shorts and had come off on one side. So while running, I tried to put it back up and poke my finger a bunch of times. And then I looked down and I had flipped it over so you couldn't see the number. And I really wanted the number to show because I wanted my race photos. So then eventually I stopped for a few seconds and repinned it on there. And so now I regret having done that.

because I didn't get great race photos and I also didn't beat my PR but from like a bigger perspective this race felt much better than my previous 318 in Chicago because that race I had gone all out and I was exhausted and I was cursing and I just didn't have a good time I wasn't in a good headspace whereas with this one I had held back a little bit it was more evenly paced

And I felt good mentally and really enjoyed that race, but for the foot pain, but you know, that, that goes away eventually. Yeah. So how does your foot feel now?

So it feels better when I crossed the finish line, I guess I was limping and they thought I was dizzy. So they invited me to the med tent and I said, Oh, sure. Why not? Right. I was wanting to sit down anyway. And I told him, look, I'm not dizzy. It's just my foot. So they put a little bit of ice on it. It was an, a lot of pain. And then when I was massaging it, I felt some kind of popping going on and a lot of heat in my foot. And I guess we don't know what it was, but it made it feel a little bit better because

And so I have Boston coming up on Monday. I decided, okay, it feels good enough to do Boston. It doesn't feel any worse than before Berlin. So I'm just going to go and tackle that. So what is your mentality going into Boston?

Oh, just a fun mentality. I've proved my training in my previous race. So this is Boston. This is my very first Boston. I'm super excited for it. I'm just going to run it, have fun with it. I'm not going to strain myself because I live in Florida. We don't have hills and I don't want to dislike the race. I want to enjoy every second of it. So I don't really have a time goal. I mean, I guess I want to run around like a three 30, three 40 ish if that happens. And if not, I'm still going to be happy with whatever comes out of it.

Yeah, that's really exciting that you had an opportunity to do two world marathons within a month of each other. Yeah, no kidding. Yeah. And you had an opportunity to do two races within one week of each other, which is kind of crazy. So let's hear about that. Yeah, so I had two half marathons last

back-to-back weekends. The first one was my, we'll call it my goal race. That was the one I was training toward and what I tapered to. That race went really well. As we've talked about, I had a ankle tendinosis issue earlier this year. So kind of coming back from that at the beginning of the year, I couldn't even run at all. So I

I had to rebuild my running base and the endurance on my ankle and find the right routine that I wouldn't overstress the ankle, but could continue running again. It was that, that fine line. And so what ended up happening was I ran the race really well. My goal was to get a sub 145.

and I got a new personal best 144 21 but then again I looked at my watch right when I was coming up to the finish time and realized how close I was to my PR and I tried to kick it and I could find anything I could just that last finishing stretch and yeah I got a 13 second PR it was a 13 second PR yeah oh my gosh you're cutting it so close I know I know it's really really close and so it's a good thing I looked at my watch so I got a new Garmin watch recently and so it's set up

The screens are set up a little differently than my old watch was. So for most of the race, I was just looking at my lap pace and my average pace and the total mileage. I didn't know, I didn't see my total time. Cause I just kept thinking like, oh, well, if I hit like a sub eight minute pace,

pace per mile, like that, that's going to get me my finish time. And then like the last, I don't know, half mile, I switched to see what the total time was. And I realized how close I was to my PR. And so then I kind of had to find another gear to finish strong. But in general, I was really happy with how that race went.

And kind of to establish my fitness and realize like, this is the pace I trained for. So why would I expect anything much different than that? Then I had another race the week after. Yes. Yes. Which was a shocker because I know you had talked about wine glass, but I don't know. I don't think I realized it was one week apart and you were going to go for it again.

Yeah. So the week between the races, having set a PR, my legs were feeling it the next day, like stairs were not my friend. I really focused on resting more, like trying to get extra sleep because that's the best way your body can recover. I tried to do some like just easy miles just to shake my legs out or walking and didn't do any speed work in between the two races. I just did some easy miles. I did some

cross-training a little bit, like a half an hour ride on the bike. And because again, like what you said, I wasn't going to gain any fitness in between the two races. I just wanted to be recovered enough to be able to run a half marathon again. So my goal for the second half marathon, which was wine glass, I was not going to try to go for another PR. Maybe I could, but in my mind, what I wanted to do on that course was get a new personal best record on the course. That's

ran the course in 2019. My PR was a 149, but what happened in that race, which I mentioned in one of our early episodes is I crashed the last three miles. I went out too fast and I just like ended up having to do some like run walk intervals, the last three miles. So when I went to wine glass this year, um,

My goal was to get a course PR and to have redemption on those last couple miles. So I was very conservative in the first early miles of this half marathon. So first five miles, I ran like average around like 815. And then it was kind of amazing. I've never felt like this in a race is that right around the six mile mark. Now I had fueled around like mile five and a half and around six miles, my body just felt like,

okay, like you're ready to go now. Like I finally felt awake. I'd been awake since like 4.30 in the morning trying to catch the bus to this race. Anyway, so mile six comes around and I just kind of got this like, I don't know, wave of energy or just my body felt awake and I felt like my fueling had kind of kicked in. And so then I started dropping the paces. So the next five miles, I averaged like an 8.05. So then I get to mile like 10. And at this point in the race, I'm thinking this was where I,

just hit the wall last time I hit this course. And so then I started ratcheting down the miles and I started running sub eight. So my last three miles was like seven 51, seven 49, seven 36. Like, so I finished that race, like feeling so strong. And so I was really happy with how I paced it. And I ended up

I ended up finishing in 1:45:57. It was about 90 seconds difference from my overall half marathon PR, but I was just really happy with how I paced myself.

And how I felt going into the finish line and maybe I could have gone a little faster, but like that wasn't. Yeah, you never know. And that's the way you try it out. And that's cool that you did this whole downward pacing. I've done that with half marathons myself before where I wasn't trying to PR and I didn't, but just to kind of play and do that, you know, progression run, they call it.

And I'm thinking I want to do that with Boston too, just because it's so beautiful when you end up finishing and feeling strong at the finish line. That's makes the whole experience just so much better. Yeah, absolutely. And so like, I don't know, my half marathon pacing tip, if you will, is to do the first five miles, maybe 10 seconds slower than your goal pace, the next five miles at your goal pace. And then the last three just slow.

however you feel like it, give it what you have left. But yeah, you're right. It was like really amazing to feel strong. There's something to be said when you're passing other runners at the end of the race that, you know, they passed you at the beginning or earlier on and you're feeling strong and you're like, just, you know, coming into the finish line, not feeling like death. So I was really happy with that, how that race turned out, especially having run a half marathon the week before.

weekend before. Yeah, that's amazing. You shaved four minutes off of that previous year pace and you stayed within 90 seconds of your PR all within a week. So that makes us think what's going to happen this weekend because it sounds like you're going to race again. Yes, I am, but not a half marathon. Almost.

Yeah, it is close. It's a 15K, which is 9.3 miles. So it's the Boilermaker in Utica, New York. And it's a pretty popular race in the Northeast. But this is one of my favorite races of the year. However...

The experience will probably be much different this year. What makes this race kind of special is that there's usually like 15,000 runners at the start line. And so it's just like a sea of people and it's very crowded. And but at the same time, the city really supports this race. And so the whole course is just lined with people cheering on the runners and

This year, even though they had a cap of the same number, only about 30% of people registered. So it's going to be a much smaller field. Only about 5,200 people are running it this year versus 15,000. So I don't even know what to expect as far as...

like the overall experience is going to be a lot different. They don't, they typically have an elite field that runs this race. They're not going to be there this year. And it's mostly just because of COVID and also because it it's on the same day as Chicago. Oh, that's probably why. Yeah. So there's a company, you know, people who maybe would typically run the Boilermaker, which is usually held in July.

have other conflicts. So it's just interesting, like with race directors moving their races around. And that's why I ended up having three races in back-to-back weekends because my first race on September 26 is usually held in May. The wine glass was held on the weekend it always is held.

And then the Boilermaker is usually held in July and it got postponed to the fall. So it just happened because of COVID, all these races got moved around. And they're all races that I like to participate in. So I was just like, well, I'll just keep doing it.

Well, you're kind of on a roll, so you probably should keep going. Right. Well, in all of these races, the three races I did this year are ones I've done consecutively. Like I've, this is the fifth year I've done the wine glass in some, whether the marathon or half marathon, the Boilermaker I've been doing since, since 2012, I've done the bridge run since 2011. So it's just all kind of wanted to continue with those races.

That's cool that you do that, that you have this time of the year that is really your racing season.

For this year. Yeah. Normally it's not, but it's kind of also something to be said, be like, okay, well, you know, I put in the training. Now I'm going to have these races and I'll kind of have a little bit of a cutback, enjoy the holidays, do some maintenance and then start training again. And actually I have an update for you about my Boston qualifying marathon plan. Yes. Let's hear, let's hear. I met with my running coach yesterday. I'm going to officially start working with him in November and

And now we're considering a spring marathon again. Yes, that's awesome. If you remember, at one point I was considering a spring marathon and then I said, no, I don't know if I'll be ready for it, the weather, blah, blah, blah. So then I was going to focus on a fall marathon. For those who might be new to listening, I am trying to qualify for Boston 2023, which

But we don't know at this point when the qualification period will be.

So in the past, the qualification period ends in early September, about six months before the Boston race. So the fall before, for example, wine glass is typically after the registration period for the following Boston. So at one point, that's why I was considering a spring marathon so that I knew it would

fall and then that time period. But the other reason why I might consider spring is as a backup, like try for that one. And if for some reason, the weather, the whatever goes wrong, then I have the fall to try again. And so I kind of will set myself up for two chances for a Boston qualifying time. That's very, that's very smart. And I think everybody should do that because I

I feel like at least in my circle of friends, there was five of us training for races and three to four of us got injuries. One of my closest friends,

can't even run Chicago this weekend. And he had been putting in four months of training of high mileage and very intense, a lot of intensity. And it's really unfortunate to see how we go through one training cycle where we have all these good moments and then only one way of testing ourselves. And it's so dependent on the weather. For example, this weekend is the Chicago marathon. And I feel really bad for people that don't do well with heat because they're projecting for it to be a really hot,

race. And so those people are not going to be able to really take advantage and show what they did in their training. So I think it's always a good idea to have a couple of races, a goal, B goal, you know, and especially if you have a coach, I'm sure your coach also wants you to do that because not only to have an A goal, but sometimes you can use those races,

kind of to test yourself, confidence builders and all that. So I think that's really good that you're considering doing it, but have you decided which one you're going to do? I haven't. So at one point I thought I was going to do the Burlington Marathon, but they haven't even released dates yet for the spring of 22.

So now I'm also considering the Buffalo Marathon in New York. So Memorial Day weekend of 2022. May? Is that May? Yeah. Yep. So like May 28th, 29th, something like that. That's a toss up as far as what the weather would be at that time of year in New York. But, you know, kind of the more I think about it, you know, there would be a benefit to kind of practicing training for a spring marathon too, since Boston is a spring marathon, but

So that way, it's ours a line. When I qualify for Boston, that wouldn't be the first time I've ever trained for a spring marathon. Because in the Northeast, training for a spring marathon requires you to run through winter weather. I don't know how you guys do it up there. Yeah, it sounds awful. I

I have a couple of races for you. And if you're interested, there is one that I highly recommend. That was my first Boston qualifier where I went from a four hour marathon or two, I think it was a three 23 and it's called mountain to beach. It's in Ventura, California, and it's a beautiful course. It's a net drop and, um, it's

It's not one of those gravel marathons where you literally run downhill. It's not. It's a very slight slope, but it's a very, very good course. And a lot of people do their qualifier there. You should look into that if you open it in May as well. Okay. That's the other thing is like kind of considering if I want to travel, how far I want to travel for a race too. But yeah, I'm definitely like kind of still exploring. Yeah.

what marathons are going to be held next spring because that's the other kicker is as of today there still could be an impact from the pandemic spring races could be still shifted around we don't know right we hope but who knows maybe we'll get another variant for covid and uh right right so we don't know

But that was one thing we talked about my coach and I talked about he's like well you got to be prepared that even if you put in the work, you know if the race gets canceled, you have to, you know, be mentally okay with that. And I said well I kind of already went through that because in the fall of 2020 I was registered for the Marine Corps marathon.

And that got shifted to a virtual option. And I still continue training for that and ran the virtual option. And anyone who's run a virtual marathon, like it's not easy one to finish your training, knowing that you're not going to have the same marathon experience, but also like running that mileage on your own without and having to line up like core support. Thankfully, I had great friends who were my my water stations, but

It's not an easy task. It's not. And they, I'm sorry, I feel bad for everybody that lives in Australia who is unable to race right now. You know, it's one of those things that,

It was so beautiful to be back in Berlin with 25,000 people and everyone was singing and you're in that corral and everyone's waving their hands. And it's just such a different experience and it makes you really appreciate the running community. Absolutely. And I felt the same way that just being around the energy of the races and when you finish and you just feel like elated and

And, you know, you're seeing friends or you make new friends at a race and it's just, yeah. I mean, people wonder why, why we spend months training for a race, but you've got to experience that race energy and that race finish line and just, you

the celebration and, you know, being around other people who can understand it too, just other runners congratulating you and, you know, realizing that we're not racing each other, we're racing the clock on our own and there's an indescribable experience. And so it's really nice to be around like the crowds again. I mean, there is a little,

right? We were all told to stay away from everybody. Now we're standing in large crowds, but it's nice to feel kind of back to normal, if you will, if even for a weekend. Absolutely. I couldn't agree. That totally made me smile when you just described all of that. Only runners will get this. If you tell it to your friends and non-runners, family members, and you tell them how much you love having all of this, what you just said, nobody will get it until you've experienced it. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Feel like that kind of covered our race recaps. Did I miss anything or is there anything else you wanted to add? Forgot to share with you. I signed up for the Paris marathon on a whim.

Kind of goes with runners amnesia, you know, you're done with your Berlin race and then you think, my gosh, this was such a great experience. I would a hundred percent do it again, but then there's so many other races. And personally, I'm a fan of flat races because I'm training in Florida and mountains are

something difficult for me right now. So I got into talking with one of my new friends from Berlin about what other races are great and flat. And I didn't know it, but supposedly Paris is super flat and a fast race.

So the entry fee was a hundred bucks and it was open to register. So, you know, this is what you do right after you're finished running a race, you sign up and you figure out logistics later. And luckily I have a very understanding family. When is the Paris marathon? It's on April 3rd. Oh, wow. Okay. Which is part of the reason why I

And I hate seeing it this way, but I wanted to get Boston out of the way, even with an injury, because I know Boston is an April race. To me, Boston is not going to be anything on my radar for PRs because first I want to enjoy it. And second, as I mentioned, has a lot, a lot of Hills and the weather is unpredictable. And I really want to get that wonderful experience in, but I wanted to just get it in right now. And then next year I want to focus on

you know, during the winter time, cut back just like you and maybe focus on getting faster 5Ks and stuff like that. And then the Miami Marathon is considering sponsoring some of our podcast episodes.

So then they gave me a couple of race bibs for that. And that's a hot race and it's humid and it's in February. So that's kind of like what we're saying, you know, having a race during your training that doesn't necessarily have to be anything but a big training run. So

So yeah, that's, that's on the radar for now. And then I also entered the lottery for London, which I do every year and I never get it. So, you know, that's not really a threat for, for anything at this point. And London is typically a spring race as well, correct? Yes. But next year is going to be in October. So I will not be, I have enough time to save up some money and not stress everyone out too much about constantly leaving.

And flying to Europe, no less. Well, you know, if you look at it, though, it sounds expensive. But if you overall, if you book your hotel rooms early,

I find hotel rooms in Europe, and I'm particularly looking at Germany and France, much cheaper. You can easily get a hotel room for under $100. And then if you shop for a good flight, my flight to Germany was barely $500, which is, you know, obviously I had a

connection on one side and two connections on the way back. But if you're willing to do that, if you travel by yourself, it's not that big of a deal and you can save a ton of money. So it's not really more expensive than, for example, now this weekend flying to Boston last minute and trying to shovel around and get a hotel room there because they all know it's Boston marathon weekend. Whereas in Paris, it's just another day in Paris that also has a marathon. So it's not all inflated that way.

That's a good point of like running in the US, especially when there's big city marathon, the whole city shuts down where maybe in Europe, they're like, oh, and maybe there's some streets that are closed right now, but.

It's yeah, have maybe more room to accommodate I know like wine glass weekend. Anyone who's ever considering going there. The hotels are sold out like probably already now for races next year, not only at the race hotel which is right near the finish line, but in the surrounding towns because there's not a ton of hotels there so it doesn't take long to fill up when thousands of runners are coming to town.

Thankfully, I have a friend that I stay with and she's been so gracious, even though like they have three young kids, but they let me crash at their house every year. So that is really helpful. You know, that's, I guess the benefit when you run in the U S or maybe, you

When you pick a city to run in is if you have a friend that lives in that city, a friend or family member, then you have someone to stay with. Yeah, that definitely cuts down the cost. But, you know, also, as I was mentioning, the bibs over in Europe, I know the Berlin Marathon was probably right around $100 because this year they raised the price for the lottery for next year, which I did not enter, to $150. And a lot of people were outraged.

And like I told you, Paris, the bib is a hundred dollars. Of course you can enhance it by the photo package and all that other stuff, but you can do that here too. But just the base start for running seems to be a lot cheaper than it is in the U S where I know Boston was more than $200. I know Chicago is up there. Um, I mean, it's, they're really expensive over here for, for races.

Yeah, that's definitely interesting to hear that. I mean, even I was looking at, you know, registration for potentially the Buffalo Marathon and yeah, already their cost is $100. So it would seem like maybe at a bigger city, you know, like Paris, that the bib costs would be different, but it's essentially comparable. So the only difference would be just flying to get there.

Yeah. And if you have enough time, then you can figure it out. Like I told you earlier, my, one of my close running friends who is not able to run Chicago this weekend was looking at perhaps doing CIM, the California international marathon in December. And he just told me that the bib cost is about $300.

which is I mean that's a significant price goes to show that there's other races out there that can be just as beautiful and they give you a way of kind of exploring the world which I love traveling so to tie two of my favorite activities together it's just you know gonna be a really nice experience yeah that sounds pretty awesome too and it gives you an excuse to like

go to that country, right? That you're like, well, I signed up for a race. Yes. I got to go now. Just explain that to the family, which I'm glad mine is understanding, but yeah, I mean, definitely takes time. It does cost some money, but it's not as fancy or expensive as you think when you're saying, oh, I might go to Europe twice next year because my trip to California, my ticket could have been more than, you know, flying to, to Germany.

And staying there for a week was actually cheaper. So, and you got to think of it too, when you travel to Europe, like likely that you'll stay longer than just a weekend or one night, right. You're going to kind of extend it. And so you got to think of, well, if you were going on a vacation that didn't include a race, how much would you spend on that trip? Right. So it's, you know, kind of shifting that mindset of what you're spending on plane tickets and hotels. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think the most, I mean, the reason why we a lot of times think that races are so expensive is because we do get carried away at the expo. We get carried away with all the things you can add to your racing costs. You know, you go there and you really want that finisher jacket or the shirt or the photo package. And then you come out of there and you spend more than your bib costs. So if you pay attention to that, which I'm not big on race swag, the only jacket I've ever bought was

The Boston jacket from the year I qualified because it was that pretty blue color. So I have that, but you know, for this Boston, do I need a new jacket? No, I mean, I already have one. And do I really need extra shirts that say,

Boston with my year on it. Not, not really. I'm not really that into it. So that definitely keeps the cost down too. I might get one of those plush unicorns for my daughter, but I think that's going to be about it. That's great points and tips about like just being conscious of the cost.

Yeah, because it can add up and then it'll deter your family from being encouraging versus if you keep the price down, you know, you can make it a good experience for anyone. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, this has been great. I'm glad.

glad to hear about your Berlin experience, even though you had some things that could have easily thrown you off and just like thrown in the towel, but you found a way through it and you really enjoyed the experience and you got some great videos too, which people can check out on your Instagram page. Nothing better than having a little camera on your visor to record the experience because you can always relive it.

Yeah. Well, that was a wonderful conversation. I'm so glad we got to catch up, Sarah. I enjoyed hearing about your race experience. Thank you for sharing your race experience with Berlin. It's definitely giving me some ideas of maybe racing in Europe and the future. Hopefully we'll get to talk again very soon. Maybe by then I will have decided on what I'm doing for spring marathons. Can't wait to hear.

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