Tesla earnings review, Tesla Semi/4680 production at Giga Nevada, new Toyota CEO, and more
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We are live on your episode of Electric Podcast. I'm Fred Lambert, your host. And as usual, I'm joined by Seb Wintraub. How are you doing today, Seb? I'm good. Glad you're good because we have a big show this week, a lot to talk about. Obviously, the Tesla earnings always brings a ton of news. We have a few interesting things. And you see a Toyota that might point to finally Toyota getting on board with electrification or at least accelerate their electrification. But before that, we're going to get into first business.

Just a few Tesla news that came because there was some big Tesla news that came out before the earnings too that I want to get into. So first up, that was last weekend. Just a little technology stuff. That's fun to talk about with Tesla because we don't talk a lot about that stuff with Tesla these days. My favorite. But yeah.

So the magic duck is called, so Tesla updated the renderings of the supercharger in the Tesla app. And it's a bit dark. I should have changed the contrast in that picture. But we see this here, which is a much bigger receptacle for the connector that you see right now if you go to a supercharger near you. And we learned that thanks to the people that drive Tesla Canada that Tesla

This is the MagicDuck, and the MagicDuck is going to be basically a CCS adapter that serves as a receptacle. So if you're a Tesla owner,

You just use it as a regular receptacle. You just put it in, put it out, plug into your Tesla. If you're a non-Tesla vehicle owner, all you have to do is when you unplug it from the receptacle, you pull the old receptacle together and the receptacle acts as a CCS adapter. You just plug that CCS adapter into your car. So you basically use the Tesla supercharger station exactly like...

a regular like a tesla owner would except for you have to go through the app for a few things just to make sure that you're the right stall and you activate the um you have like a credit card connected to the tesla account and all that but other than that it's basically the as close as it get to the frictionless user experience that tesla has with supercharger which as most people know is by far

by far the best supercharged, not supercharged, the first best fast charging experience out there, especially in North America. The other big news is Tesla announced a new $3.6 billion investment in Gigafactory Nevada to finally expand the factory. And the new investment is going to be specifically for the Tesla semi-production and the production of 4680 battery cells.

So this is interesting. This basically builds up on what we reported on Trek in October, where we said that Tesla is going to finally expand the Gigafactory after, basically, I want to say like three years of not expanding the actual building. It's still at like 30% of the actual footprint Tesla originally announced. So people said Tesla didn't like it. Wait, you said 30% or 60%? 30%. Really? So it's only a third done.

Yeah. Huh. It looked like it was more than half done. I thought it was, but you know what? There's that front part too, that,

From the new rendering, I think the plans have changed a little bit. But from the original plan, it was like 30% of the actual footprint. I think they might have gone a little bit higher than they used to in the original plan. They have two levels now. So maybe the actual total space is a bit better, but it's not clear.

So a lot of people were like, "Tesla never delivered on their promise there." They didn't deliver on the actual footprint, but the original investment that they announced, they delivered on. Tesla admitted that it was their first Gigafactory and they didn't plan the project perfectly.

And they actually found a lot of space efficiency improvement that enabled them not to have to build a factory that big in order for Panasonic to deploy their production lines and for Tesla to deploy the Powerwall and the drive units and the battery pack line and all that. So they managed to do that. But now this new $3.6 billion investment is going to complete the footprint of the factory. And they're going to add, like I said, Tesla Semi-Smart.

Is there an official comment that I can use? Oh, yeah. No, that's not it. So adding 3,000 new hire, which is going to be a hard one to do because there's already over 10,000 employees at GeoFactory Nevada, and a lot of them had to move there. It has been the most difficult part, I think, of the whole project. 100 gigawatt hour of 4680 cell production, and the capacity to produce enough battery cells for... Okay, that's still the cells.

And the Tesla Semi production line, though, I don't think they released numbers on the Tesla Semi. Well, they didn't, but I think Tesla previously said that they were aiming for like 50,000 units a year or something like that, which is massive for a Class A truck. And especially an electric truck is nowhere near that kind of production right now. So, yeah, this is a big project. And now you have the new rendering here of what the factory is going to look like.

Again, solar panels all over the top, this new front. It's going to be a big project. They're going to have to move all the parking lots around. It's a lot of work. And it's disruptive. It's hard to make it not disruptive to the current production. One thing that's interesting, too, and one thing that might have delayed this whole thing also, I think, is that in the original deal with Panasonic to build Gigafactory Nevada,

Before it was even called Gigafactory Nevada, I think it was like Gigafactory 1 or something like that. I think the deal included that only Panasonic is going to be allowed to produce battery cells there. So I think Tesla might have had to negotiate with Panasonic in order to make that deal, in order to be able to make that announcement and start production of their own 4680 cells there. That's interesting. That's something to keep in mind.

Or maybe Panasonic is going to be more involved than Tesla has let on so far because it wasn't like a joint release and then suddenly released from Panasonic and all that. So maybe they are more involved than they are letting on. That's possible or maybe even likely because they're still there. Like Panasonic, they're even the ones that do the hiring for a lot of the stuff at Gigafactory. Yeah, they employ a lot of people. They employ like 3,000 people there. So you mentioned the employees.

You mentioned the employment. How are they going to get so many people, so many more people, 3,000 people when they're already... We've heard reports before that Tesla's had trouble getting people hired. One of the reasons they haven't expanded the Gigafactory Nevada is that they can't get more people. How are they going to get more people? Are they going to build a train or...

Yeah, I mean, I'm also confused about that. But I mean, the thing is, not only Tesla has been developing there, like a lot of other companies have invested in Northern Nevada, right?

So maybe they think like as a whole, it's just going to be a big immigration center. A lot of people are going to move there and they can steal employees from other people too, because it's going to be, it's kind of this initial park. Like when Tesla started, it was maybe like two or three other big employers there, but now it's like 10 like major companies that are there and they have all expanded their capacity. So yeah,

So it's going to be like a hub where employees move around, I think. Yeah, and I mean, a lot of the companies are feeding Tesla as well. And then there's things like Redwood Materials, I believe, is their J.K. Straubel's thing. So that'll be interesting to see. I think he has something near Reno, but I think the bigger factory is closer to... What's the capital of Nevada? I forget the name. Carson City? Carson City, yeah. Okay.

All right, now we get into the Q4 result for Tesla. So a lot of stuff there. A lot of good stuff. A lot of very good stuff, I think, on the financial sides, I mean. So the expectation were $24.6 billion in revenue from Wall Street and $1.13 a share. Tesla delivered just a little bit lower on revenue with $24.3 billion.

But higher on earnings with $1.19 a share. So a good $0.06 per share over the expectations. Pretty good. But that's not really the good stuff. Obviously, just a net increase in cash position of over $1 billion. Now Tesla sits on the $22 billion cash pile. So they can really go like Scrooge McDuck on it and all that. That's what the big gigafactory is for is...

Just cash. To hold all the cash. By the way, can you click on the link on the thing? On the chat? I only see the... Oh, I expanded it. Sorry, my bad. No? What? It only... You might have to copy the link and go into the URL bar. Yeah, share this time. It's so weird. All right. Yeah, so I think the biggest, the most interesting thing for me is...

So we can start to get an idea of how big of a gross margin hit this is going to get in Q1. Not a perfect one, but we can start to get an idea of it because that's the big question. So that was on the podcast last week. We spent a lot of time talking about the EV price war that Tesla started. And we see it happening right now. It started with Bitcoin.

The earlier price decrease that Tesla made in China and several other automakers followed in that market. Now Tesla, a week later, reduced prices everywhere. And now we saw a bunch of other automakers follow, including today Ford reduced the price of the Mach-E, which is obviously a big competitor to the Model Y. So there's an EV price war that's brewing right now. And we think that Tesla is in a pretty good position to win that war, thanks to its gross margins. But

it would be very useful for us to see how big of an impact on the gross margin these big price cuts that Tesla implemented earlier this month would do. And while Q4 doesn't give us a perfect idea of that, we sort of got a little bit of an idea of it through, again, that popped up.

Switching. Through the fact that there was big discounts offered in December. And funny enough, for once, Tesla actually released some granular information about this that they generally don't. So...

We actually know the number of cars that Tesla delivered in December, which generally never happened. We know that generally the majority of cars are delivered in the last month of the quarter. That's why there's the big delivery pushes that we talk about and everything. So Tesla actually mentioned that those delivery pushes have been reduced over the last few quarters. But they said that 51% of vehicles delivered in Q4 were delivered in the month of December. So it's still the majority, but by a smidge.

So it tells us that half of the 405 people

thousand vehicles that Tesla delivered in Q4 were in December and were discounted because all vehicles delivered in December were discounted. Some more, some less. Obviously, at the end of the quarter, there was a lot more. Earlier in the quarter, it was fewer. But there were decent discounts throughout the entire quarter. Yeah, sorry, the entire month of December. But not the big discount. Yeah, not the $30,000 on the Model Y, obviously. Right.

And that was obviously also half of the car delivers in a quarter, but that's still a lot. So that's still a lot. So how did that affect the gross margins at Tesla? Not that much. Tesla went from 27.9% in Q3 to 25.9% in Q3. So a two-point hit with half the car being discounted at a rate of about 50% of what the price cuts are. So that's pretty good.

So trying to extrapolate that into Q1, it's very difficult, obviously. And during the call, a lot of the analysts tried to get Tesla to give some information about it. And they were, I mean, Zachary Kirikou said something, but it was not very precise. In my post before the conference call, I estimated that it should be

It should be over 15% still. I wouldn't be surprised if it's between 15% and 20%. So it's going to be instead of a 2% point hit like the other, it's going to be probably between a 5% and 10% point hit, which is a lot. Obviously, it's a lot. But 15% gross margin, there's a lot of automakers that would kill for giving a 15% gross margin. So...

So it puts Tesla in a great position right now. And obviously, we've also seen that Tesla has increased the price on the Model Y by $500. So they realized that the discounts were a little bit too much of what they needed to bring the demand back up. So that will help a little bit, I guess. But that would help a little bit. I don't think that will even be impacted much in Q1 since Tesla already has a backlog of order for Q1. So it's more going to be for Q2. But still. Yeah.

This is a big deal. Then Tesla in the shareholder, I wrote this article here where Tesla pledged to cut costs down at uncertain times. And that's because the shareholder later, if it had a team, it would be cost cutting. So Tesla focused on the fact that there is macroeconomic uncertainty. So especially the rising interest rate, it does increase the cost of financing cars. And most people, when they buy a car, a new car, it is financed.

So this is definitely an issue. But Tesla believed that by keeping their costs down, they're going to be able to get through those on time pretty easily. They mentioned the current F4, including the reduction of delivery waves, supply chains improvement and all that.

But at the end, this is a pretty interesting comment where basically a warning to the other automakers that might have a more difficult time than they do because, again, the gross margins is tighter. So we are particularly focused on the vehicle cost during this period of macroeconomic uncertainty, high interest rate, thus higher cost of vehicle financing and vehicle price deflation. We continue to focus on cost efficiency while improving functionality while cost efficient...

While cost-efficient manufacturing of EV is still rare across most of the industry, it is critical for profitability. And they have a point here. There's not a lot of other automakers, even though they might do make an average positive gross margin on their vehicle total, they don't break down per vehicle and they don't break it down for their electric vehicles. And we suspect that a lot of them are not making that much money on them. If at all. If at all.

And that makes it hard or even impossible to reduce pricing. And after Tesla did, you create a very interesting situation for yourself. Yeah. And we've already seen VinFast has lowered their price, which probably doesn't mean much to just about anybody. But we're also hearing rumblings. We wouldn't recommend anybody buy a...

Ford in the next four days. We're hearing rumblings that other automakers are about to drop their prices to meet

uh up with tesla but you're right like nobody can make an ev as cheap as tesla and just because they've had huge gross margins the last quarter doesn't mean they can you know they can they can still cut their gross margins in half and still sell a cheaper vehicle than just about any other automaker out there and it's a lot of its scale like nobody's going to scale like uh you know ford uh gm that they have some scale but they're not

They're not anywhere close to what Model Y and Model 3 are being produced at. So, you know, to me, it's like you have to really just if you're an automaker right now, you either have to like bear down on costs or ramp up significantly. And I know a lot can't know a lot of automakers can't ramp up because they don't have the lithium battery supply chain.

Yeah. But the supply chain and the new factory style too, like the gigafactory style for the vehicle themselves, because like GM and Ford are the ones that I'm least worried about because they did that, those investments like in the last two or three years, like they are those new giant factories, those new giant complex that are being installed both on the battery side and on the vehicle side. But the automakers that didn't do that, and we're going to get to one of them later on the show,

It is worrisome. It feels late in the game to do it. All right. Sorry. Why are those all popping up all the time? I changed something. I'll keep reminding myself. The Tesla energy storage business is booming and it's just the beginning. So that's one of the other things that we saw from that Tesla earnings.

Its energy storage is on the rise and a lot. Record deployment of 2.4 gigawatt hour of energy storage in Q4. That's 152% up year over year and 300 megawatts over quarter over quarter. That's a lot. That's like one giant battery project more in a single quarter. And that's really only just the beginning because

Obviously, Mega Factory, the new latch-up California factory where they produce the Mega Pack now, has started production. But production started early in the quarter and the ramp-up started to be significant around mid to end of the quarter. So I think it probably did contribute a little bit to this new record quarter, but not that much. I think most of the capacity we're going to see coming in Q1 and Q2 has just shipped those Mega Pack and deployed them. They need to be deployed for them to count in the quarter.

That can take time. So I think we're going to see a big impact on Q1 and then Q2 and then second half of 2023 might be big. So Tesla deployed now 6.5 gigawatt hour in 2022, which is up 64% over 2021. So 64% is...

a higher annualized rate of growth than Tesla's automotive business, which grew, I think, at 47% last quarter. So the energy storage business now officially is growing faster than Tesla's automotive business. Obviously, it's still a fraction of it when you look at the revenue and everything. But for now, for the first time, Tesla is over a billion dollars a quarter from his energy store, not just energy storage, actually, his energy business, energy storage and solar. So, yeah,

When you're talking about the business that's not bringing a billion-dollar quarter, you're talking about serious business. And I think, again, it's just the beginning. I wouldn't be surprised if it's closer to probably $3 billion a quarter by the end of this year. If Q4 was $3 billion a quarter, which I know it's three times what it is now,

but it was this quarter, so year over year of 300% improvement. But the megafactory was going to be fully ramped up, I think, at this point. So it's going to have a massive impact. And Powerwall is also no joke anymore. I think Powerwall is close to a rate of 4 gigawatt hour a year. So it's nothing like 4 gigawatt hour a year that Megapack is going to do soon. But it's still significant. And I would assume that that's also ramping up because the backlog is also significant.

It's big business. That's my point. And you need it. You need it to support the continued growth of solar and wind, which are intermittent energy producing assets. You need the storage to balance things out. Sorry, everyone. I'm losing my voice a little bit. I've been sick this week. I thought I was at the end of it, but for some reason, my voice is...

Last thing to go. Quick update on the Cybertruck production timeline. Not a huge update, but one that does... It's basically what we've been expecting for a while, but I think we are more on the conservative side when it comes to Tesla production timeline. And I know a lot of Tesla fans have been very optimistic, especially the last Tesla Eagle to launch with the Model Y. And the Model Y was actually early production. Tesla was early on this one. So people are like, oh, maybe Tesla finally changed its tune and now they're going to be early on...

Temporary expectation. That's what the new production on date says. So Elon says, we do expect to start production, I don't know, maybe sometime this summer. And you have to take Elon's words exactly when he does the timelines. Maybe sometime this summer. It's pretty vague. It's later because originally, well, I shouldn't say that context.

The timeline that Tesla was officially guiding before was startup production in mid-2023. So summer is still mid-2023, so it's not necessarily a delay, but...

Let's continue to comment. But I always try to downplay the startup production because the startup production is always very slow. It increases exponentially, but it's always very slow at first. So I wouldn't put too much thought in startup production. It's kind of when does volume production actually happens, and that's next year. So a lot of people also had hope that because a Cybertruck is somewhat minimalist, somewhat simple,

even though it does require brand new manufacturing techniques to build it, that it might be able to ramp up faster, but the ramp up is coming next year. And same thing than last year, the vice president of vehicle engineering at Tesla added that they're currently building a production line, but he also emphasized that the production ramp is only going to happen next year. So from those comments, I made some comments.

Just calculation where basically what I said before, but I wouldn't expect more than five or 10,000 max, like 10,000 would be great. 5,000 would be probably what I would expect. Cyber trucks in 2023. So second half of 2023. And then the problem. So like normally it takes this about at least a year to ramp up to 5,000 with, with like Berlin and Texas has taken a little bit more than a year.

Maybe it's going to be a bit smoother because it's going to be the second production vehicle at Gigafactory Texas. So that could help a little bit. So we don't know. I don't know. I mean, I have to say, like, even that seems very optimistic to me because this is a whole new vehicle that they've never built before. And it's a whole new process. And the stainless steel and like 16 other things that they have no idea for. And, you know, we were seeing like Rivians driving around.

like Patagonia, like three years before, you know, like those weren't productions. Those were early prototypes, but yeah,

We've only seen two Cybertrucks go around. We're seeing like- Well, they have a few prototypes, a few Beta prototypes right now. Yeah, but they're not out in the world. They're like show cars. I've seen the one that Elon drives and it's- Oh, but those were pre-Beta though. They're new ones. They did mention that they have a new fleet of Beta vehicles. Right.

Now, they might not be being spotted in the wild, but they might be on private test grounds and all that. Maybe, but if there's a Cybertruck out there, people see it. It's not like you can hide that thing. And the ones that we were driven around, the one that had the launch and the ones that are driven around, I think those are just Ford F-150 shells with sheet metal stainless steel on it. I don't think it's

you know, built using that process they're talking about. So I am very pessimistic on the, you know, I'm, I'm optimistic on Tesla being able to build inexpensive, fast, you know, exciting, you know, sedans and SUVs and the model three and model Y, but, but,

I am very pessimistic on them building a truck anytime in 2023. And I think 2024 is going to be really low numbers. I mean, if they do start ending this summer with very low, like very, very low production, they would just need to ramp up over like four or five months to ramp up to like

500 units a week at some point in Q4 to be able to produce like 4,000 or 5,000 units. I don't think that's impossible.

But like Elon said, and that's very important for people, for investors, is Cybertruck for sure won't be a meaningful contributor to Tesla's financial performance in 2023. There's no doubt. On the contrary, it's going to be a drain on it because the production rate is always a drain on the company. So that's definitely the main takeaway. But yeah, but what I was going to say earlier is that I would think maybe 150,000 units in 2024, right?

Maybe that would be like my optimistic view at it. So my guess is that 2024, there will be 50,000 units and there's going to be like a handful in 2023. Okay. I think... You might be right. I would say in the hundreds in 2023. We'll see. Now we get into the not so good stuff.

And I want everyone to keep in mind as we go into the not so good stuff, all the good stuff we just talked about because every time we say anything negative about Tesla, it erases all the positive we talked about before. It's like, oh, it's all – you guys are just negative or just haters and all that. What about all the stuff we just said 10 minutes ago? Yeah.

Anyway, let's get into it. So this one was the weird one. That was kind of shocking, really, to a degree. And honestly, when I wrote that I lost some respect for Elon Musk, people were like, did you have any respect to lose? It's like, yeah, I had some respect to lose. I've been losing respect for Elon Musk for a while now, obviously. But yeah, there was some more to lose.

People took offense with the word of that headline, "Dylan Musk dismisses his negative impact on Tesla's reputation with douchey answer." A lot of people took offense with the word douchey, but I challenge anyone to read the question within the context, a very important context,

then read or listen to sorry i keep losing my voice read or listen to elon's answer and give me a better word that douchey for his answer because i just don't know any better word for it and you know what i think i think elon might want to take that one back to you i think as he was saying it i was listening i listened to it three times and at one point when we're gonna get to it but at one point

When he said that... Yeah, when he literally said that, I might... You got to open the page. Sorry? The page didn't open again. Again, sorry. Keep reminding me. At some point, he said, that suggests that I'm reasonably popular. So when he said that, he sort of had it reasonably. I think...

I think he felt it. He felt like, oh shit, I'm starting like a douchebag right now. And then he said, reasonably popular because it's such a... Like, let's get into it. So basically...

In the conference call, the first part, well, after the opening statements and all that, the first questions are questions now that Tesla takes from C.com, which pulls questions from Tesla retail investors. And this one, why they asked it on the call is because it was one of the most upvoted ones. More specifically, 3,000 Tesla retail investors asked for this question to be asked. So it's crazy.

It's your investor base asking the CEO of a company a very serious question. Serious question was, since Elon started political influencing, polls from Morning Consult and YouGov show that Tesla brand favorability declining in 2022 and division along party lines. Such brand damage can impact demand. Does Tesla track favorability and how will any brand damage be mitigated?

Very good question. Very serious question. Note the question never mentions the word Twitter whatsoever. No mention of the word Twitter. But it does indirectly reference what he's been doing on Twitter, which, again, political influencing is a good way to put it because he has literally asked people to vote for a specific party. He has been making a lot of political comment on Twitter and all that.

And we've reported seriously on that stuff for months now. And now it has indeed impacted Tesla's brand. And we've seen it personally. And we've seen it in polls and all that. Very serious question. And Elon's answer was, well, straight up. I'm not editing it in any way here. It's, well, let me check my Twitter account. And then he pauses as if he-- I would assume there's no video of it. But I would assume he's actually pulling out his phone.

So I got 127 million followers and it continues to grow rapidly. That suggests that I'm reasonably popular. Now, I might not be popular with some people, but for the vast majority of people, my follower count speaks for itself. My follower count speaks for itself. I have the most interacted social account maybe in the world, certainly on Twitter. Yeah.

Tell me that's not douchey. And I challenge if we have people right now in the comments that took offense with the word douchey, I'm completely open to a better word. If you have a better word, I'll change the headline right now in front of you and put it if you have a better word. But I think who the hell brags about the number of Twitter followers they have? Actually, I think the YouTube video below has it queued up to the question and answer. So maybe we can... You want us to listen to it?

I don't know if we can hear it from the web page. Let's go to the next investor question. Can you hear it? Yep. Since Elon started political influencing polls from Morning Consult and YouGov, show Tesla brand favorability declining in 2022 and division among parties and lines. Such brand damage can impact demand. Does Tesla track favorability and how will any brand damage be mitigated?

Well, let me check my Twitter account. So I've got 127 million followers. It continues to grow very rapidly. That suggests that I'm reasonably popular.

Did you hear it? Did you hear it? Reasonably popular. There was a dissertation there. He knew that was a weird thing to say, I feel like. Yeah, he couldn't just say popular. Yeah, but the strange thing in this is, first of all, no one mentioned Twitter. We mentioned the comments you're making on Twitter. I haven't had a gets of impact on Tesla. I think most people that are unbiased with this recognize that, I think. And

And first, like if there's a better word than douchey would be dumb probably because the response is dumb because he seems to believe that like all people or at least the majority of people following him on Twitter do it because they like it.

which is a very weird assumption because I think a lot of people follow him because he's a very influential person that what he says has influence on people. So you want to be up to date with what he says. And that's good, obviously. And he's right that there's some influence on Tesla with that, like where he can try to use that to influence Tesla. But

Right now, I wouldn't be surprised if like 30, 40, maybe even close to 50% of the people that follow him on Twitter, they don't do it because they have a favorable view of him necessarily. So yeah, so when you say something, it's like just you have more followers, it's just more people to piss off really. But beyond that, beyond the douchiness of the...

of the answer, I think is that he didn't actually answer the question. He really dismissed a serious question from a lot of shareholders. A lot of shareholders are concerned about it and he completely dismissed it. And that has been a pattern for Elon recently, just completely omitting the actual impact that he has on Twitter, even with the sale of the stocks. Because obviously that has been, I don't personally think that

the is is uh the people's opinion of it of him has had the biggest impact on tesla's uh stock and demand i i think i think the sales of stock of tesla and the loss of confidence that come with that has been the biggest one and obviously the open sales on the market is such a dumb thing uh we have some suggestions from the comments we we see dickish and we see uh

Conceited and self-absorbed Among other things Self-absorbed Yeah, self-absorbed is pretty good Just to add a little bit more Before we settle on a new word He then proceeded To try to sell Twitter

to other automakers in the middle of a Tesla earnings call. Yeah, he came as close as you can without actually doing it, which is another thing I think he kind of reverted the last second where he was about to do it because he clearly was getting into a pitch. And then he switched to you should use Twitter more instead of like you should actually buy ads on it or anything. But which, I mean, you should use Twitter more like...

Okay. But he's literally selling Twitter on a Tesla earnings call, a call for shareholders who have been battered over the last year because he bought Twitter and sold $40 billion on the open market to do it. Wow. Like the self-awareness of that was very –

It's worrying. I think it's just one more example of Elon being not just a little, but increasingly disconnected from the reality of what's happening of the objective people that are looking at Tesla right now, which leads us to our next post because that was also another thing that he said that was... I'm going to have to do that here. Well, okay, first we should do this.

um let me reopen that good news while you're doing that we're gonna have a rivian to review uh early february so r1s excited r1s there was a little bit of talk of the hardware for the autopilot self-driving hardware update that's coming not no details on the actual hardware i think that could come really any day now uh but uh

He did say that the Cybertruck is going to get the Autoware fork. That was not a surprise because the Cybertruck is going to arrive after the updates, obviously.

But he did kill any hope of a retrofit. And we talked about that a few episodes ago where I had serious doubt that this was going to do any retrofit of the new hardware. But Elon says the cost difficulty of retrofitting hardware 3 with hardware 4 is quite significant. So it would not be, I think, feasible to do so. So it basically shut down the idea that that would be the case. But he did elaborate on...

I mean, that's also not a surprise. A lot of people had concern that you would need hardware 4 to achieve full self-driving capability, which I think you should still have some doubts at least, some concern after this. But he said that hardware 3 will not be as good as hardware 4, obviously. But I'm confident that hardware 3 will so far exceed the safety of average human.

So how do we get ultimately, let's say, for argument's sake, if hardware 3 can be 200 or 300% safer than human, hardware 4 will be 500 or 600%, and then hardware 5 and beyond that. So what's interesting here, too, is the language used when talking about hardware 3 is, so far, exceed the safety of average human. Okay. Okay.

That's good. Obviously, safety is the most important thing and we want safety to improve, but that's not what you've been selling. Some people are buying for safety, obviously, and God bless you, but most people paying $15,000 for a full self-driving package right now are doing it because they've been promised that eventually they'll have a robo-taxi.

That's what's been promised. And we haven't heard a word about that. Or at least like a robo-taxi for themselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's what I mean. A car that you can get in and you can tell it where to go. You can fall asleep and go there. Exactly, yeah. That's exactly what Tesla and Elon has been selling us for seven years now. They're coming up on seven years. Right. So that's what they're saying. And there's no word about that anymore. Now it's safer than human, which, I mean, it's a good pivot. I'll give them that.

But it's not what's been promised. And that's why there's like five or six, what you call it, class action lawsuits coming their way regarding fossil driving. So truckload of them. Which leads me to my next post, which is...

Elon, again, he's using some weird language that shows a disconnect with the reality of it, of what's happening with full self-driving data, from a user perspective at least, which is that he literally says that you're not smart if you don't understand the value of full self-driving that Tesla's going to create with the software updates. And that's so strange because I don't think anyone doesn't believe that. So he said...

Something that I think only some of these smart retail investors understand, but I think a lot of others maybe don't,

Maybe. Is that every time we sell a car, it has the ability just from uploading software to have full self-driving enabled. Full self-driving is obviously getting better very rapidly. So full self-driving is obviously getting better. I know that's so obvious. So that's actually a tremendous upside potential because all of those cars, with a few exceptions, only a small percentage of cars don't have hardware 3. So that means that there are millions of cars where full self-driving can be sold in essentially 100% gross margin. And the value of it grows exponentially.

as the autonomous capability grows. And then when it becomes fully autonomous, that is the value increase in the fleet. That might be the biggest value increase of anything in history. Yes. So here's my thing that I took offense with that is that, no, who is he arguing against? Like, who is he trying to sell the fact that, hey, once we enable full self-driving, it's going to be the biggest asset value creation in all time.

Obviously, everyone can see that if you have a fleet of millions of vehicles and from just flipping a switch, they all become self-driving. Everyone understands that that's incredible value creation. Maybe he's right. Maybe the biggest of all time. But no one is arguing against that.

Our problem is, I think, is seeing the doubts that people have around full self-driving and assigning that reason to those doubts. But that's not where those doubts come from. Those doubts come from people not necessarily believing that Tesla can achieve it, especially on the current hardware or at all, really, with the current strategy. Which I'm not one of those people, by the way, but I do understand those doubts.

I'm honestly, I don't know if I'm not one of those people just because I, I'm, I'm not by, I'm not unbiased about it. I bought it. I want him to succeed. I don't want my $5,000 to go garbage. I'm also in the, uh, yeah, I bought it category. So, so maybe I just believe it because I want to, I don't know. But, um, I do, I do share with the doubts to a degree. And, um,

And him saying that, obviously getting better very rapidly, I just don't agree with that. Yeah, and I don't think anybody agrees with that. He has a weird view about it because he's always the most alpha built ever. That's always what is in his car. So you always see new features, new capability coming. He's on 11.3 right now.

Well, Eleven has never been public yet. It was supposed to be last year. So this is a real, it's distorting his view here because we don't see it obvious. I have it for almost a year now and I don't see any meaningful improvement, maybe like a slight smidge. But for a year, if it took a year to get that slight smidge improvement and you're still so far from the promise of a robot taxi, how far are we from, unless the improvement rate like shoots up

5,000%, it's still years and years away. Now, I know that some people are saying, oh yeah, Dojo is coming, that will increase the rate of improvement and all that. More people have it now over the last two months, three months. So that's more miles, that's more data and everything. But over the last year, there's been a giant increase in miles. And we haven't seen a giant increase in rate of improvement. So yeah, it's... I don't know. I don't know. I think it's disconnected from reality, honestly.

More than a little bit. Maybe not a lot. He's still a fan. I think he's a super smart guy and everything. I think he had the biggest impact on electric vehicle and space than any single person of his generation. But I think Twitter is warping his brain right now. He's too much on Twitter. He's too exposed to sycophants praising him and saying that FSD is the best thing ever created. And again, I want to be careful because a lot of people say, you keep trashing FSD.

I keep trashing the discrepancy between what was promised and what has been delivered so far. That's what I'm trashing. I don't want to belittle, especially the people that are actually working on this technology at Tesla, the autopilot team, the full self-driving team, the AI team. They're doing an amazing job. Like if Tesla had never promised anything about full self-driving and just push an update to our cars right now with this,

We will all be amazed. We will all be, oh, wow, that's where they are right now. This is amazing. Like, if they had never promised anything. But for seven years, they've been promising a mobile taxi service. That's what we have right now. So that is what's upsetting. Not the actual capacity. It is impressive that just with a vision system, what they're able to do is stunning. Congrats to everyone involved. You are miles away smarter than me. But...

Not only to be that smart, to understand that the discrepancy between what was promised and what has been delivered so far, it is bad. It's also a little bit frustrating that not only is Tesla not making much progress, but Waymo and Cruise are driving around San Francisco and Arizona and now Austin with their cars with no drivers. And of course, their cars look like freak shows with all kinds of

equipment on top and they're, you know, in only mapped areas. But the mapped areas are cities and that's that's the hardest area to drive in. And of course, there's problems with those at points where they get stuck or I think we saw one was impeding a fire thing or ran over a fire hose or something.

So it's not perfect, but it's way further along than even Tesla's. Commercially speaking, like for a commercial, like it's actually useful. Like if FSD Beta is for the most part not useful, Waymo and Cruise have, like you said, issues, but they have a useful service at least. Right. And I should clarify also, autopilot is certainly useful. Oh, yeah. But full self-driving, not. No. And I would also... I compare it to like, I feel like I'm in...

I feel like I'm a driver to head instructor inside the car and the driver's head instructor is a job. So when I get into my car, I'm not looking for a job necessarily. I know that. Yeah. You, you're training the system a little bit and all that. And I get that to a degree, but,

When you're a driver, he's an instructor, and you have a 16-year-old teenager next to you full of hormones and doesn't listen to you, it is stressful as hell. Not a job that I want. It's not what I signed up for, let's say. The other thing that we should also clarify is we're not talking about autopilot. What we have on Tesla now for highways is good, but

We're also kind of curious why we still need to hang on to the wheel during autopilot, during full self-driving, when companies like Super Cruise, Blue Cruise from Chevy and Ford, for instance, Mercedes, just use the camera, which Tesla has, to do eye tracking. Why can't Tesla do that? I feel like we have the camera.

Tesla's smart. They do eye tracking now. FSDBidget does eye tracking now. But you're not allowed to... No, it doesn't enable you to remove your hands. Right. I drove a Ford F-150 on the highway and I could take my hands off and just hang out, cross my legs and chill. That was a much better experience than...

having to put weight on a steering wheel the whole time. So it just seems like Tesla is not making strides. They're not going in the right direction at a speed which would bring full self-driving to fruition anytime soon, like within years. So that's my gripe. Yeah. So I'd like to address the comment here, a very snarky comment from Del Spiva. Let's do a podcast where the panelists do no deep diving into facts and data. And well, this is it.

I would love to do a deep dive into FSD beta data. Show me the data. We did it. We actually did it a few, like a month or two ago where we had data, the only data available on FSD beta. And we did the deep dive in them and it wasn't looking good. But it was a very limited set of data, very bad data really, because, but it was the only one.

So we would love to have more data on FSD Beta. We would definitely dive into it. Tesla has been manipulating the system so that they don't have to release anything. And they've done that for a while now. So don't put that on us. Put that on Tesla. You want some data? The only data that we have now that Tesla released on FSD Beta is the kilomilitude miles driven with FSD Beta, which has now just reached over 90 million miles.

okay that's all the data yeah i mean it was a year ago a year ago it was uh 15 millions now it's 90 millions yep that's that's great but over those uh 70 million miles not that much improvement based on my own experience with the vehicle and based on other people that i know are on bias about this uh if you go on to that i love that um

Some guy on Twitter, after I wrote that article, was like, you're the only one I see on Twitter having this bad experience with FSD, but everybody else I see just praise the system and all that. I was like,

Yeah, I mean, don't you see like a weird pattern on this on Twitter? Go off Twitter, go like all the news articles about it. They're like unbiased people trying it for the first time. Or Reddit. Yeah, or Reddit. A lot of it on Reddit too that is a lot less friendly to Enon. Like a lot of people on Twitter, they're doing – well, I want to be careful because –

There's a bunch of different reasons they would do that. Obviously, a lot of them are Tesla investors. A lot of them own a lot of Tesla shares and they don't want to make Tesla look bad. So you have to be careful with that. I understand why they would do it. There's nothing illegal about it. They're just warping their opinion about it. A lot of them just want to be an Elon supporter and they want to be retweeted by Elon and everything. So they tag Elon in their FSSD video that looks good and all that. You cannot trust that.

And a lot of them also, they just want to justify their own purchase, which is me. That's my bias that I'm trying to be careful about. I want to be making sure I'm not just like... I cannot say that I'm overly positive about it, but the positivity that I have for FSD, which there is some, as we discussed earlier, is not just due because I bought it and I want it to succeed. All right, moving on from Tesla. Tesla.

Toyota, like I said earlier, they had a new CEO this week. There it goes. Never mind. Yeah. So not too much information here, really. The new CEO was the CEO of Lexus, which was a company owned by Toyota, obviously, a brand owned by Toyota. And so it's going to be Mr. Koji Sato, 53-year-old Lexus chief brand. Lexus doesn't really have a ton of EVs, FYI.

Yeah, well, I mean, they only have what Toyota makes for them. Right, right. So I think that's misreported. So that comment is from the current CEO of Toyota, Mr. Toyota, that says, to advance change at Toyota, I have reached a decision that it's best for me to support a new president while I become chairman. So now he's becoming chairman. So he's not really exiting the company. And again, that guy has been...

the leader of Toyota for a long time and a lot of the blame of Toyota being late in all electric vehicles specifically because obviously only have a bunch of hybrid and plugins and whatnot but with all electric battery vehicle have been extremely slow to transition a lot of the blame has been put on him so now Mr. Koji Sato so why we said this could be interesting with electrification is the the only comment that Sato said was like

We would like to demonstrate this commitment to make better cars through concrete actions and products such as accelerating the shift to electrification and engaging in car making that respond to diverse value and local needs. Very political comment, really. It's not, I mean, politician comment, I should have said. And also electrification is a word that I think could also mean just hybrids and plug-in again, or even hydrogen because they've been investing a lot in hydrogen too.

All right. Staying with the Japanese automaker, Acura takes a page of the Tesla playbook and announces it's going to start selling EVs online. So to compete with Tesla, Rivian, and Lucid that are now just purely online. Well, of course, they have stores too and whatnot, but the actual experience starts online and ends online. They announced that they're going to do the same. But...

This is going to start with the ZDX models, ZDX and ZDX type S variants, which are the ones that we previously reported about, which are the ones codified with GM. So it's not even Acura Honda's own technology, or partly its own technology, I would say. So we've been kind of worried about Honda and consequently Acura because...

They are kind of offloading some of their early technology, early steps into electric vehicles to another automaker, losing expertise in the process at a time where they already are late in electric vehicles. So not a good look. Not a good look for Honda slash Acura.

All right, the 2024 Polestar 2 has been officially debuted. So we've been talking about the rumors over the last few weeks about what was new, what was coming. And sure enough, the new rear-wheel drive option is now there. There's new motors and there's more range. And we have all the details now. Oh my God, I'm losing my voice. I'm losing my voice. Almost to the questions. Yep. All right.

Long range, well, we already went into the range thing, the 270 miles now, 300 miles for long range single motors. Yeah, so here's the data for the long range single motor. Rear-wheel drive now, 82 kilowatt hour bench pack. So the bench pack is bigger on this one. That's strange.

So you do both get a bigger battery pack, which is 4 kWh more, though, but also better efficiency. So you get up to 300 miles of range. You get higher DCFC charging speed, too. That's interesting. 205 versus 155. I guess that little heighted buffer of capacity enables that. You just lose some acceleration, I guess, which is 5.9 seconds instead of 4.3, but big whoop.

Yeah, I think it's a big psychological thing to get up to 300 miles. Something that Polestar has kind of been, you know, when you compare it to Tesla and Hyundai, Kia, whatever, to have that model that can go 300 miles is a big deal. And then, of course, you get to the dealership and you drive the dual motor one. You're like, that's the one I want. Okay, I'll take the hidden miles, whatever. Yeah.

And in terms of pricing, it's also cheaper. So the longest range version is the cheaper, which makes it interesting. They only released the European prices starting at 54,000 euros, which is equivalent to about 58,000 US, but I don't think they removed the taxes from that. So probably something closer to 48,000, $50,000. Yeah, we know prices have been dropping. Yeah. So... It's kind of early to announce 2024 too. Yeah. Yeah.

I know that's the Osborne effect. They're going to have some issues with that probably. All right, let's get the questions. All right, first question came before we even started. Anything new known about the CCCP holdup of the Shanghai expansion for the new high-volume vehicle, or is that news for Investor Day?

Yeah, we talked a little bit about it before the show, but yeah, the new model is definitely coming for Investor Day. Tesla said that the new vehicle platform is going to be discussed during Investor Day and all the

We expect a couple new vehicles to come out of that platform, including that high-volume one that's supposed to be both made in Shanghai but also designed in China. So that's the one you're talking about. Yeah, we're going to learn more about it March 1st, March 3rd, whenever it's in business today. Yeah, it's early March. Here's an important question why you find that data.

Nick Cedar asks, is Fred worried about Elon hacking his FSD and driving him off a cliff? Asking for a friend. Yeah, that's my biggest concern these days whenever I get into my car. Actually, I got it on date the other day that I was not expecting. That would make me nervous. No, I'm not concerned about that whatsoever. I don't think Elon is that vindictive. I would be impressed if FSD could drive where they wanted to go. Yeah. Yeah.

If they kill me, it's by mistake, not with intention. No, but like I said, too, especially if you're referencing the specific article from this week calling his answer douchey, I'm pretty sure he agrees with me at this point. Especially that I just re-listened to it. And the way he said it when he talked about he had it reasonably before Poplar, I think he realized midway to that answer that it was a stupid answer.

All right, moving on. Dan Oberst, he told us the right pronunciation of his name, but I forgot again. Oberst, I think. Anyway, I was assuming that Tesla couldn't find enough employees in or willing to move to Reno as the reason they never completed the originally planned building. I think that was the common thing, but I guess they just didn't need...

that space or whatever. All right. Question. What is, yeah. What is the process for investors to sue the board to replace Elon? Well, I don't know if you can sue to replace, you just vote. Um, I feel like this is the most sustained good news out of Tesla in years and he couldn't care less about it. Uh, well, yeah, I, I, I, like Seth said, it's a vote and I wouldn't be surprised if, uh, there is an investor, uh,

what they call it, an investor proposal. That's a bit confusing now with the investor day coming. The investor day is not the shareholder meeting. So shareholder meeting is generally in the summer or fall, generally in the summer. And yeah, any investor can put their investor proposal. And I wouldn't be surprised if there's one about replacing Elon, especially if he continues that way.

Or at least replacing some board members so that they can direct Elon to be a little bit more reasonable. Well, some people have already, some larger Tesla investors have already indicated their intention to apply for a board seat. Right. Ross Gerber is one of those. Yeah, exactly. So Stu says, Tesla made $4.38 billion investment listed on their quarterly. Has anyone clarified what this was? I think somebody said it was a bond investment or something.

Do you mean... Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. They did buy bonds and things like that because it just makes sense. We're not with the $22 billion they're sitting on. I thought he was referencing the new credit line that they opened, dude. They opened a $5 billion credit line. Yeah.

All right. I'm trying to make this quick. It looks like you're on death's door, Fred. I feel fine. It's my voice. It's so weird. What will end up being the most important new EVs in 2023? That's a good question. I'm going with the EV9, reasonably priced, full-size SUV. I agree with that. Cybertruck, if it comes, pick up with high demand. And Chevy Equinox, affordability. And GM has said before that's a $30,000 car starting price. I agree with that. Let's

Just off the top of your head, what do you think? What else is out there? Yeah, I mean, those are good ones from Justin for sure. So he said new EVs because I think the most important EV period of 2023 is going to be the Model Y. Just pure volume. It's going to destroy everything in terms of volume. But new EV, I think, well...

For that year or long-term? Because long-term, I think it's Cybertruck, obviously for the same reason. It's just volume. It's going to have the biggest impact. But the Equinox is interesting too, I think, just for value. But I don't even think the Equinox is going to come close to Model Y in value unless GM just falls out and just invests everything in it. Yeah, along with the EV9...

Hyundai, the parent company of Kia division, is going to release, I think it's called the 7? Because they have the Ioniq 5, they have the Ioniq 6, and they have the Ioniq 7, which is going to be kind of like the EV6, or sorry, EV9. It would be nice if they gave these things real names instead of just letters. Well, they're very much, even though the ownership structure is very closed, obviously, they're

They're very much like separate companies. Like the, the act, like when, when you confuse them or you link them together, they're like, Hey, we're key. We're not in there and vice versa. Right. Even though we use the exact same platform and anyway. All right. So yeah, I think those are some good ones. You know, from a performance standpoint, Lucid is going to have their crazy, like a RIMAC competing kind of vehicle. Sapphire. Yeah.

the sapphire right um i'm trying to think what else board doesn't really have anything lined up the roadster the roadster is supposed to be coming this year yeah that's gonna happen uh not much else out there that i can think of that 2023 is gonna bring um but we'll see i mean but those those were good ones yeah yeah

All right. Question. What is the biggest reason FSD innovation is so slow right now, despite more cars on the road? Is it loss of key leaders, Elon distraction, Dojo slow rollout, all of the above, or something else? It's a hard, hard, hard problem to solve. And to be honest, in the original investor, AI day, was it AI day back then? Yeah, it was AI day. The original one was more focused on full self-driving.

I don't remember who it was. I would assume it was Andre Caperti. I think it was Andre. He laid it out pretty clearly that everything he'd done so far to make it 95% self-driving, basically 95% of scenarios, but the last 5% of scenarios, just to get all of them is the hardest work.

And so that's why every little percentage point, every little nib of situational experience that you can get, it covers such a small part of the driving experience that you don't really see the improvement, really, unless you end up in that specific scenario, which, again, rarely happens. So you don't see that much improvement. But yeah, I think that's the big one. It's just a hard problem to fix.

Yeah. And yeah, all of the above. And, you know, it's kind of interesting because Elon has started to talk about solving FSD is going to require like, like the kind of artificial intelligence that, you know, is, is what is that? The base level of like full I'm forgetting the word right now, but it's going to require so much of a higher level of artificial intelligence than,

you know, originally was planned for. So I think on one level or on some level, the realization has come in that, Hey, uh, we really underestimated this problem. You know, they didn't know, like nobody knew, uh, how hard it was going to be. So they're, they're kind of finding out. So. Yeah, that too. And, and Tesla has made some mistakes along the way too. They, they walk back hardware, they change strategy and all that. So those things also change your plans. Yeah.

all right renee pulio says question oh wow that's great pronunciation there not really i'm not kidding uh do you think that the nevada expansion is the gigafactory reveal for 2023 do you see another announcement of a new gigafactory yeah yeah i don't think that was it uh like people got a little bit confused because the way that the news came out the news came out a bit of nowhere for a lot of people

It confused me too, even though I knew that the expansion was happening because the governor announced it the day before where he said two new factories from Tesla, something like that, in Northern Nevada. So he got people confused like it's a new factory, but it's an expansion of Giga Nevada. So no, I do expect that Tesla is still planning new factories, including Giga Canada, Giga Mexico is still being in the running.

And just not ready for an official announcement, I guess. Yeah, we've heard both Canada and Mexico mentioned. And nearby you as well, Quebec. Which is part of Canada. Less people think that. Depending on what you ask. Yeah. Some of the commenters on that thing, I don't know if they were... Yeah. All right. We went a lot of in-chatting here. So I'm going to try to scroll through some of this stuff. Yeah, we're having a lot of comments. All right, here we go.

Glenn Sanford question. After the recent price cuts, the secondhand market has opened up to many, many more people. Don't you think that this will have a massive effect on EV adoption? Great point, Glenn.

Especially for Tesla. That's what we're seeing so far because Tesla has had the big price cut. I would assume that the rest of the market will follow as they try to compete with the new vehicle prices because obviously new vehicle prices affect used vehicle prices a lot. Yeah, $18,000 down for Tesla over the last six months.

And so, yeah, that's a new level of affordability that, uh, uh, for a lot of people, obviously not super affordable. Still. I think the average used Tesla in the U S is still like $49,000. And that's really, yeah, it's still not super affordable, but they were out of control for a while. So they've just come back to like out of control into like more reasonable, but still not truly affordable. Yeah. All right. Moving on. Uh,

Not even going to try that DJEJNYC question. I think thinking about the trading in my model 2018 model three long range, that's what I have. But seems like the only difference in 2023 is less features. Am I wrong? Other than the center console?

I wouldn't say fewer features, but I would say that the build quality in 2018 was garbage. I'm having a lot of problems with my 2018. I'm sure you are too. The ones that have come out more recently are much better quality builds. Of course, they don't have some of the things like radar or

collision detection stuff and all the stuff they pulled out but they're much better built cars more recently. Yeah, that primarily but for so a lot of people like how big of a difference a build makes because I'm not having that many issues with mine but the biggest thing that I noticed when I get into a new one

is noise like it's so much more silence inside a cabin much quieter inside a cabin than uh than mine with noise specifically so that's part of build quality obviously but the new thicker windows that's that's part of it also so yeah i mean there's there's definitely advantages um but yeah but if you're if you're happy with their 2018 model 3 long range you

There's not that many reasons to upgrade, I have to say. All right. Mark Webb question. I've noticed that Tesla have been releasing a few videos recently. Do you think that this is a sign that they are trying to create some new communication channels separate from Elon's Twitter? That was last week. Yeah, we went into that last week. And the answer is yes, basically, yeah.

uh question seth i've seen some recent videos that indicate that rivian batteries overheat and charge rate becomes slow i've seen some videos as well are you finding this with your ravine my rivian is going to be delivered in october to december so i don't know but i've seen the videos it sounds like something that they can probably fix with some software or some slower you know charging rates or whatever

but I don't think this is going to be a huge problem. It's a few people. I can't remember where I saw it. It was like one of the videos I watched. It might have been out of spec or something. Anyway, so yeah, I don't think it's going to be a huge problem. Let's see. We have the Rivian Thermal Management Rapid Gate issue. Out of spec. Yeah, that's right. It's a shame because they really need a better Tesla alternative.

And then, yes, artificial general intelligence is what I was trying to... I need some artificial general intelligence to come up with these words. All right, let's see. Moving on. Not too many more questions. MSRP Raven 2019 turned single stocks for the win. MSP? Model S Performance Raven. So like the pre-refresh models. Oh, right. Stocks for the win.

Yep. All right. That's pretty much it. Alpha Motor is crowdfunding. If you look into the prospectus, it seems thin. Oh, I'll look into that because that's my specialty. Like fake companies trying to raise money. Not fake companies, but shady companies. Hindenburg of... Yeah.

Yeah. I think I did a report on Alpha Motors before, too, where I had some serious concern that it was basically just a marketing guy with some renders behind it trying to sell reservation. That was Altis, wasn't it? Or is that different? No, Altis is a little bit more behind it, but I still have some serious doubts about them delivering. But no, Alpha Motors was even worse, if I remember. I'll look into it, Mr. Bike Angelis.

Or if you can send it to me, that would be helpful. All right. Thanks, everyone, for listening. I appreciate you. I hope you had a great week. I hope you have a great weekend. If you do enjoy the show, please give us a thumbs up, a like, a subscribe, hit the notification button, all that good stuff. It's free to do. Take a second and it helps the show more than you can imagine. If you're listening on your podcast apps, I want to thank everyone that posted five-star reviews last week. We had four great five-star reviews. That's awesome. That helps the show a ton. If you can do more of those,

It's perfect. We're going to see you same time, same place next week.