What does China’s expanding role mean for the Pacific’s future?
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It is Pacific Island countries' decision to develop friendly relationship with China, which is in line with their own development needs.

Larger countries that have historically been partners in the Pacific need to adopt a more pragmatic attitude of new partners, such as China coming into the Pacific, which sees this as an opportunity rather than as a threat. The Chat Lounge. Chat Lounge. Chat Lounge. The Chat Lounge unpacks views and opinions on hot issues in a more casual way.

Hello and welcome to the chat lounge. I'm your host Xu Yawen. Today we're discussing a major diplomatic event that has just concluded in Xiamen, the third China Pacific island country's foreign ministers' meeting.

Chaired by Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi, the meeting brought together top diplomats from 11 Pacific nations that have diplomatic ties with China. The two sides issued a joint statement and a list of action points outlining China's commitments to deepening cooperation and implementing the agreed-upon consensus.

What are the major takeaways from the meeting? How is China's growing partnership with Pacific island countries contributing to the sustainable development and supporting local priorities?

As China's engagement in the region continues to expand, is there potential for traditional and emerging partners to find common ground in supporting the Pacific region's development? To help unpack these questions, I'm joined by Chen Xi, Assistant to the Director at the New Zealand Studies Centre at East China Normal University.

Professor Sandro Tart, Associate Professor in the School of Law and Social Sciences at University of the South Pacific in Fiji, and Professor Warwick Powell, Adjunct Professor at Queensland University of Technology in Australia. Welcome to the chat. Chen, before we dive into policy documents and joint statements,

Let me begin by asking, is there a particular moment, project or personal story from your experience with China Pacific Island Cooperation that has left a deep impression on you and why does that memory stand out?

Okay, so I think I'm going to share an experience which was a keynote speech given by Professor Transform Akwaro from the Solomon Island National University in an international academic conference on Pacific Island Studies. And also I'm very happy to actually see Professor Sencha Tutt here because I know she was in this year's PIPSA meeting in Wellington as well.

So I will quote a bit the personal reflection on China's presence in the Pacific from his keynote speech. So growing up in the Solomon Islands, Chinese traders were an inseparable part of our daily lives. From the small cornerstones in our village to the bustling markets in Honiara,

They were the ones who supplied our goods, extended credit to struggling families, and even became a part of our communities. Many of my peers went to school with the children of Chinese families who had called the Solomons home for generations. But over a century, our economic and social fabric has been intertwined with theirs. And this is why I find it perplexing when Western media and some geopolitical strategists speak of China's so-called infiltration into the Pacific as though it was something new and unprecedented.

So I think this was one of the moments I heard from a Pacific Islander sharing his daily experience with Chinese or China in their life. And this is definitely contrary to how Western media usually depicts China coming into the region. And also we know that the long exchanges between China and Pacific Island countries have lasted from at least the establishment of the diplomatic ties in the 1970s

and has continued to expand from economic and trade relationship to dozens of areas. And more importantly, this corporation has brought changes to the daily lives of Pacific Island countries, because in the end of the day, I think it will still be people here.

who could really enjoy the benefits. And so if you look at the list of measures for China to implement the consensus of the foreign ministers meeting, these are the areas specifically fitting into the challenges for people in Pacific nations to address. For example, to explore the establishment of a think tank dialogue mechanism, because the current policy making in the Pacific relies largely on the analysis provided by

Professor Tart, we have noticed that Fijian Deputy Foreign Affairs Minister also participated in this year's meeting in Xiamen, where the joint statement and a list of concrete commitments were agreed upon.

From your perspective as a Fiji-based scholar, which specific areas of cooperation outlined in the joint statement do you see as most significant for Fiji's development priorities?

Thank you. Perhaps just to say at the outset that these sorts of engagements are very positive and useful and I think help build understanding and trust between all sides and transparency, of course, too, about people, about countries' priorities and interests.

And Fiji and China have a very long relationship, as you know, 50 years, which in recent years has grown stronger. For Fiji, I think China has emerged over time as a very valuable development partner. It's also a political ally and it's assisted with security as well. I think just to say with regard to development, Fiji, one of the priorities, and we may come back to this, has been developmentally

developing a more balanced trade relationship. We do rely on China for trade, but we haven't been able to establish a good foothold yet in the Chinese market. So I think for Fiji to try and explore more opportunities for more exports to China would be, I think, very important. And this meeting, I think, sets the stage for doing that.

I think beyond that, Fiji, as you mentioned, is part of this very, you know, it's the regional hub. And the fact that this statement directly alludes to some of the important priorities for the region, I think this is important for Fiji, including, as we'll talk about shortly, the 2050 strategy for the

blue pacific um i'd just like to perhaps make one cautionary note here and that as we develop these partnerships with china whether it's through individual bilateral partnerships or collectively it's very important to try and avoid creating dual systems or parallel systems within the region and i think it's um it's a

a problem that is obviously the legacy of having in the past very strong partnerships with Western countries. And now China is an important partner. We need to ensure that our partners work together. We will delve more into that in the later part of the program. In the meantime, Professor Powell, your

You're in Australia, and we know Australia has long been a key development partner in the Pacific. So how is this high-level diplomatic meeting between China and the Pacific island countries viewed in Australia? Look, I think Australia's general attitude towards this has been in recent years clouded by a sense of geopolitical anxiety. And that goes to the heart of Australia's own

understanding of itself within the region and its relationships with both China and with the United States. So a lot of what happens, I guess, in recent times, at the very least, in terms of Australia's posture towards the Pacific is framed by this bigger picture set of dynamics. So that's the unfortunate part.

With all that said and done, though, I think that Australia does have a long history with the Pacific Island nations and does seek to be, in its own terms, a responsible partner. Now, when you're wearing the partner hat, you do want the best partner.

for the Pacific Islands. And part of that is, of course, the ability of the Pacific Islands to successfully pursue their own social and economic development ambitions and to achieve greater levels of economic security and prosperity across

and in the end also to ensure that the Pacific Island nations can prosper as sovereign nations in their own right. So as with many things in this region, from the Australian perspective and particularly the perspective of the political establishment, these dynamics are often viewed through complex and geopolitical lenses which are

I think at times clouds the opportunities that actually exist for multinational collaborative actions to advance shared ambitions and agendas. You probably have also read through the joint statement from the meeting, which it emphasized principles such as mutual respect, common development and no political strings attached.

So how do these principles reflect the current state of China-Pacific island countries' relations? And how effectively do you think has China balanced its growing cooperation with respect for the sovereignty and national interests of Pacific island nations? Look, I think that China clearly is developing a very strong sense of itself as a great nation.

And that strong sense is anchored by the idea that China is an enabling nation. So there are many ways of great nations to relate to the rest of the world and to view themselves. And I think that China works hard to develop itself as an enabling partner in the world. And you see that reflected in the aspirations articulated through various

official documents such as the development and civilization and security vision statements. That's the first point is that China does seek very much to be an enabling great power. The second thing is that there is no doubt that as China has become a rising power and now a great power that

its influence globally has also risen. And navigating the complex world as a country becomes more influential remains a tricky and a delicate work in progress. On the whole, I would say that China tends to be quite successful at

balancing its size and its influence together with its own understanding of how great plowers can and should behave. It is, of course, challenging when the environment that you're operating in continues to be buffered by the forces of history, particularly in the way that that is embodied by the strong and persistent

influence of the United States across the Pacific. Let's not forget that the Pacific was described as America's lake in the years immediately after the Second World War and

and has been hereafter or thereafter treated really as a territorial dominion of American foreign policy. So much so that, of course, in parts of the Pacific, particularly the Northern Pacific, the jurisdictional authorities that prevail there continue to be strongly American influenced as American territories and protectorates.

And in the North Pacific as well, we have a significant American military presence. And of course, to some extent in Australia too. So it is a complex environment. China has laid out very clearly its own view as to how great powers should behave and conduct themselves. It's laid out a set of visions and frameworks about how it believes countries should relate to each other.

And on the basis of that, I guess, is charting a way in the Pacific that seeks to live up to, I think, the expectations that it has set for itself. The Chat Lounge. The Chat Lounge unpacks views and opinions on hot issues in a more casual way.

Chen Xi, this is a question to you. So we know China's approach or China's partnership with the Pacific island countries is mainly people-centered and development-driven. And we can tell that from this time, some tangible outcomes of the meeting include this joint statement and also the list of measures for China to implement.

which includes these 12 projects across climate response, disaster relief, healthcare, education, cultural and tourism, and media dialogue, and so on. So how do these projects reflect China's intention, in your view, to build this win-win partnership? I think the development of the cooperation between China and Pacific island countries is,

have been based on what China is capable to provide and what Pacific Island countries really need. So as both sides are developing nations at the very beginning, so they have remained committed to addressing climate change, for example, through sustained global promise and also corresponding policies.

And China's engagement with the Pacific has been marked by the steadiness and also sustainability. And this is very different to the commitment from some other global powers, which has been more variable and also more open.

unconcerned. So, for example, the US has restored several times from multilateral institutions and also agreements and its actions do not always align with its rhetoric. So, I can take the

The example, like the disaster relief and mitigation. So we know that climate crisis is one of the greatest challenges in the century. And the Pacific Island countries have long been at the forefront of bearing the very, you know, the most severe consequences. And we know the extreme weather events and also the social and also economic impacts.

have been threatening the livelihoods of their citizens while impairing the economic development. And also issues about territorial integrity, security concerns for not only resources, but also human economy all have been raised. But to address these challenges requiring not only the coordinated response from the regional level, as well as the global level as well.

And this is exactly where China's sustainability corporation could fit in to help Pacific Island countries build climate resilience, for example. And we see how comprehensive this corporation has been. So first, we know when Pacific Island countries, they were hit by extreme natural disasters.

China was always one of the several immediately offered to provide very urgently needed supplies and also founds to the affected countries. But at the same time, we know it is more important to help Pacific Island countries

to build up their capacity, all in capacity, to withstand disasters. So including the infrastructure perspective and also to carry out technical cooperation and also building the seismic networks to enhance the early warning system and also the monitoring capacity. And in addition to this, China has also provided government scholarships and training program to facilitate a study of professionals from these countries

which is actually the investment to the future of the South Pacific, the investment in their people. So I think the cooperation in this regard is actually a really good demonstration of how China has been building the partnerships and also a shared future in a very comprehensive style and according to the needs of the region and in their preference.

Why? Professor Tard, so if we look at, take a closer look at bilateral trade relations, we can tell that the trade between the two parties, between China and Pacific Island countries, has expanded more than 30 times over the past 30 years, from 1992's $153 million to 2021's $5.3 billion.

In the case of Fiji, the bilateral trade also reached a record high at $534 million last year. So first of all, what factors do you think have driven this regional trade growth? And also, in the case of Fiji, how would you assess the significance of China-Fiji trade ties as a potential model for sustainable development across the Pacific? I have to

to say that obviously China's economic growth in that period has been a big factor here and its desire for more external partnerships, including, of course, with the Pacific. This growth in trade is obviously a mixed record across the region. In some cases, there is a huge surplus in favor of Pacific Island country with China

importing more from that country than it exports. But for other countries with less to export, the trade balance is very much in China's favor. And I think for Fiji, that has been one of the issues that it has not been able to produce the commodities or has the ability to perhaps tap into the China market as much as it would like to. And in this context, perhaps the opportunity is now there with China

the trade tariffs being imposed by the US administration that the Fiji government may pivot trade or the private sector may pivot trade more to the China market. I'm thinking of things like bottled water, for example. Most of our bottled water goes to the US now, but that may shift and there may be other impacts of this. So we have seen growth over the years. This has been facilitated too by both

China and the Pacific's accession to the World Trade Organization. There have been bilateral initiatives. There's obviously the importance of the pivot by China in terms of its Belt and Road Initiative becoming much more engaged in development initiatives here and elsewhere. You just mentioned that the U.S. tariffs policy has brought

brought some impact to the Pacific island countries. So how serious is the situation on the ground? How has that maybe changed the Pacific island countries trade strategy?

I think it's caused a lot of reassessment of where our trade should focus. And I think it's perhaps an opportune moment as well to start broadening our and diversifying our markets. And China's a key one, but also Southeast Asia. I think part of a broader shift, though, that we in the region need to take in terms of our traditional reliance on Western partners, including the U.S.,

who are no longer in such a dominant position globally. And China obviously is emerging as one of the most important players in the world economy.

and the world generally, and other parts of the world as well are starting to rise in their influence. So I think for the Pacific, we need to take account of these shifts that are occurring. There are changes politically in terms of security and defense, strategic changes, and I think it's a very dynamic era. And what's happening with the U.S. at the moment is perhaps a wake-up call. China, interestingly enough, can benefit from this because it can

position itself as a stabilizing force, as an upholder of the world, the rules-based order. That's something, of course, that the Pacific is very keen to maintain, some predictability and some trust in the multilateral system. And it

This extends beyond trade and economics to things like climate change and to the perhaps to the nuclear nonproliferation regime and other issues that are important to the Pacific. Professor Powell, as Professor Tarr just mentioned, amid this ongoing global economic uncertainty for many developing nations, especially in the South Pacific, they're also facing challenges from rising unilateralism in trade.

So what steps do you think are needed to make the multilateral trading system more inclusive and more supportive for island developing countries? I think it's a great question. And there's no doubt that the present moment is characterized by significant turbulence in trade.

what has been a relatively stable multilateral trading arrangement that countries have become used to over the course of the last few decades. The broad issue around trade, though, needs to be perhaps recast in part as a production question, meaning that you can only trade what you produce. And so an open multilateral trading arrangement requires

needs to also be accompanied by ongoing capacity development so that countries and their enterprises are able to take advantage of their resources and build on that through enhanced technology and enhanced skills to add value and enable countries to ultimately serve the world with high value products.

One of the challenges for developing nations historically has been the fact that their principal ability to earn hard currencies, US dollars in the main, has been by selling natural resources.

Natural resources, of course, are globally traded commodities and therefore the revenue that exporters can earn from that are subject to the fluctuations in commodity prices. Secondly, because commodity prices are priced in US dollars,

The exporting nations are also exposed to exchange rate risks, particularly when they are purchasing local currencies, having earned the US dollars in the processes of international trade. Now, what happens historically is that developing countries borrow funds to enable them to develop their capacity, whether it's infrastructure or to import technologies elsewhere.

And they pay for that by exporting their natural resources, as I said, to earn the hard currencies. And they use those hard currencies to purchase technologies. The issue is that the amount of hard currencies earned is often insufficient to enable developing nations to service their debts, which creates historic problems. And we know that with debt servicing through finance from the IMF, for example.

But also it exposes developing nations to the risks that the cost of their debt measured in terms of their own domestic economies rises because the debts are denominated in US dollars. And as American domestic monetary policy is adjusted further,

to meet America's own national economic policy requirements, it can lead to higher interest payments that inadvertently and adversely affect developing nations.

Not only are we dealing with a question of trade, we're actually dealing with a question of productive capacity and how that is financed. And they remain the ongoing challenges for developing nations, including those in the Pacific. Let's take a short break. Coming back, we will discuss how high-quality Belt and Road Initiative aligned with the 2050 Strategy for the Blue Pacific Continent.

and if there is potential for traditional and emerging partners to cooperate in supporting the Pacific Islands development. Stay with us. Ever wondered what's actually going on in Africa through the perspective of an African? How are things really going between China and Africa? What's the narrative of this relationship? Well, get a perspective with China-Africa Talk. Hear from African diplomats, entrepreneurs, academics, Chinese natives and more.

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Welcome back. Let's continue our discussion. Chen, so the joint statement also calls for aligning high-quality Belt and Road Initiative with this 2050 strategy for the Blue Pacific continent. And it outlines seven key cooperation platforms ranging from emergency supplies, poverty reduction to agriculture, climate response and juntao technology.

This time, it has expanded exchanges in education, culture, tourism, healthcare, and the possibility of direct flights. In your view, how does this multidimensional cooperation framework reflect China's approach to the regional partnership in the Pacific?

We can see from all this cooperation, like how comprehensive and also diverse this cooperative relationship has been. And also we can see the effort from both sides to try to cooperate in a, we call it, Pacific-led approach with respect to the regional solidarity as well as the strategic autonomy. So among this, the regional organisations of the Pacific countries are

are one of the very important vehicles to achieve such an effort. For example, the climate financing. We know to get the access to external financial support is very crucial for Pacific Island countries. But from where to get it and also how to receive financing is a very big question for them as well.

And usually bilateral aid is one of the very prominent way, but that means to get the fund from one particular country. So this way has its advantages of very lower or relatively lower access requirement in very short to deteriorate time. However, it is more conducive to the donor rather than the host country in deciding where to spend the money.

And also there is another platform, the multilateral platform. This is another choice, but the very complex management mechanisms and certification procedure actually limit the negotiation power of one single nation. And for Pacific Island countries, their answer is the regional organization as their best vehicle for, you know, the collective decision making as well as for the climate assistance.

And then if we look back at the cooperation between China and Pacific Island countries, you will see many collaborations of this type. So, for example, China has contributed to the China-Pacific Islands Foreign Corporation Fund since 2000, through which it has provided the financial support to address regional priorities.

And China has also provided the annual funding to the Secretary of the Pacific Regional Environmental Program since 1998 in coping with, you know, the climate change and also to achieve the sustainable development.

So I think what we have seen from this is that both sides, they have the willingness and also have already taken the joint effort to cooperate in such a, you know, such approach led by the Pacific and to actually based on the needs from the countries and to adopt what they actually prefer the way to deal with the

climate changes and also other issues. Well, Professor Tard, what's your take on Chen's remarks regarding this practical implementation of aligning high quality Belt and Road Initiative with the 2050 strategy for the Blue Pacific continent? Yes, the 2050 strategy is, firstly, it's a

a blueprint for the region as far as where it wants to go, what are its long-term goals and as a region, how will they collectively work to achieve those? And there is an implementation plan that goes with that.

This is a living document. There will be various phases of that. It's very much meant to set the agenda, set the priorities for the region that will help our partners direct their assistance in ways that are, as Jen said, that are Pacific-led. And hopefully that...

This is a way of also bringing our partners into a more coordinated engagement with the region rather than working in parallel or at odds or cross purposes. But of course, that's a regional strategy and there is often a disconnect between what is agreed at

the regional level and what happens at the local and national levels. And some countries have quite clearly defined national development plans which provide further guidelines for partnerships and assistance and various channels for dialogue.

as well at the national level with partners. So with China, I guess we have quite a strong relationship in Fiji with the Chinese government through the embassy

and with their various other actors who have been involved with infrastructure development here in the Pacific. There's also investment as well going on in Fiji. So there are many ways in which the partnership can be guided and where input can be provided.

I think one of the most interesting initiatives was in 2024, I believe, when representatives from the indigenous Fijian institution, the Great Council of Chiefs, toured China and were able to visit various sites and learn more about different types of poverty alleviation programs that can be transferred

in some way to the villages in the local communities here in Fiji and have real impact at that level. So I think it's about being very,

As we discussed, many tangible outcomes like cooperation between China and the Pacific island countries still face challenges as well, such as logistical constraints and limited local capacity and so on. So from your perspective, what are the most pressing hurdles in advancing this cooperation and what are some measures that can be taken to address these issues? Yeah.

Yeah, look, there are probably a handful of key things that I think are important preconditions for...

coordination and collaboration. If we just look at the economic domain, firstly, the ongoing development of, I guess, what you'd probably broadly call energy sovereign capabilities is important. In other words, it is important for Pacific Island nations to develop their own or to have support to enable the development of energy

energy systems that are resilient and which deliver high returns on the energy committed to developing them. So they need to be

sustainable, and they need to be sovereign. That means developing more renewable energy infrastructure, because without sovereign energy, nations are ultimately exposed to the significant risks that energy supplies can be affected by geopolitical dynamics. So that's the first thing.

The second thing is to have communications networks, information systems that support two things, actually. One is, again, enhanced national information sovereignty. But secondly, to achieve that without compromising cross-national interoperability and interoperability.

And that really means developing information systems, both hardware and software, that are open to, that are protected from the capricious interventions of major powers. The advent of open source artificial intelligence, amongst other open source software capabilities, is an important symbol of

what is possible because it points to the opportunity for developing nations to implement and operate and ultimately develop and fine tune

artificial intelligence models locally and augment them to suit specific local requirements. That is to ensure that they can make use of these technologies without being at risk of having others intervene to stop them from making use of these technologies.

The third area where I think we need to focus upon, in a sense, is a political cultural question. And that is one where other nations actually view collaboration in and around the Pacific and with Pacific Island nations, not as a zero-sum proposition, but as one in which collaborative effort can achieve shared ambitions. And I mean by that...

that larger countries that have historically been partners in the Pacific need to adopt a more pragmatic attitude of new partners, such as China coming into the Pacific, which sees this as an opportunity rather than as a threat.

So instead of thinking that China's ongoing involvement in the Pacific represents a threat to others, it needs to be seen as an opportunity to be embraced and articulated. And that's partly a political cultural issue. And I think the Pacific island nations themselves are in a position to assert, if you will, their own desire to not be part of the pull and push of major power politics and insist

that the collaborations that are part and parcel of life in the Pacific are driven first and foremost by the interests of the Pacific island nations above the interests of all else. Chen, so Professor Powell, he mentioned about, you know, there are some questions or critics in some Western nations say that China is seeking to maybe expand its operations.

influence in the region from the strategic view, especially we know back in 2022 when China and the Solomon Islands signed the security pact, which has sparked speculation about this potential Chinese military presence in the South Pacific.

Some even described the region as the new frontline in major power competition. So how do you respond to these narratives? And in your view, what are the fundamental goals of China's engagement in the Pacific? And how should they be understood in the broader international context?

So first of all, it is Pacific Island countries' decision to develop friendly relationship with China, which is in line with their own development needs. So we can see this from the foreign ministers' meeting and also the intensive visits to China by leaders of the Pacific Island countries since the beginning of last year.

which is a good proof of this. And many of the ways Western media's alleged concern is actually based more on conjecture and even fabrications. And the second is it's wrong to see Pacific Island countries as merely passive pawns in the alleged global power contest.

You know, the continuous development of the regionalism in the South Pacific in the past at least one decade sees the effort of Pacific Island countries striving for both regional solidarity and also their own, to holding their own strategic autonomy. And

These countries, they are taking the initiative and formulating policy goals in line with their own development reality. And during this process, they have been actively expanding cooperative relations with more countries and striving for their own rights to survival and development in the international arena.

And also for both China and Pacific Island countries, they belong to the global south and have been facing similar challenges in the process of development as developing countries. We know that economic development and also combating climate change

So, and climate change is even regarded by Pacific Island countries as, you know, the own challenge threatening their survival in the region. It is in these areas that China has been cooperating, you know, West to South Pacific. So we repeatedly read from Chinese official statement, the emphasis and the promise of full respects, attending no political strains and also no imposing one's will onto any others.

And China's cooperation with Pacific Island countries should not be seen as targeting at any third country. Actually, it also always welcomed the participation of any third country, be they the United States or Australia or New Zealand. And both China's and the West's cooperation with Pacific countries should be respected and they are not, you know, in nature mutually exclusive countries.

So we can see that Pacific Island countries, they have very clear desire and need to pursue the development and the stability. And also they have sufficient political wisdom to make very clear judgments and also decisions that will actually serve their long-term interests.

Professor Tard, I want to hear your opinion on this. How do you respond to concerns like China-Pacific island nations cooperation is being politicized or viewed through a zero-sum lens? And also, how do Pacific island nations balance their partnership or engagement with all major partners while maintaining strategic autonomy and development priorities?

Yeah, I'd just firstly say that it's quite clear that we're in an era now of much greater competition, geopolitical competition, and this is leading to an escalation of military activity in the region from all sides. Obviously, our traditional partners are quite prominent

in terms of their military presence, but we are seeing new initiatives from China with intercontinental ballistic missile tests taking place. This is a situation that I think is starting to capture the attention, focus the minds of Pacific Island leaders particularly, as well as other civil society groups. And I think it's a factor behind Prime Minister Rambouk's proposed

Zone of Peace or Ocean of Peace, which has been taken up by the Pacific Island Forum leaders. I think one of the key principles that it seeks to promote is this idea that the region is a region where countries are

not confined to any particular sphere of influence and while not all countries are are non-aligned or able to be non-aligned they wish to be free to choose who they are partner with who their friends are you know who they wish to engage with they don't want to be told who they can and cannot be friends with and they don't want to be forced to take sides either so that

I think we are very much aware that we are caught in the middle, though, that there is a power contest at play here. China is part of this. It grows more powerful. And the US and others are seeking to push back on that. And the Pacific has become this zone where it could, in fact, be seen as a

a military playground to go back to the old framing of the region and that's where i think the ocean of peace idea is very important as a way to assert key principles of um if not non-alignment of demilitarization and certainly of not seeing any escalation of nuclear weapons in the region the chat lounge the chat lounge unpacks views and opinions on hot issues in a more casual way

Professor Powell, how can say Australia, China, the Pacific island nations and also including the US work together in complementary way rather than competition moving forward? Like do you see potential for cooperation perhaps in climate change, capacity building or infrastructure and where traditional and emerging partners can find this common ground to support the region's development in a collaborative and sustainable manner?

Well, there's plenty of projects and plenty of need where collaboration can be undertaken. So the issue is not whether or not there's opportunities for it. The issue is the willingness of parties to pursue a collaborative approach as opposed to a competitive or an antagonistic approach.

And this goes back to my earlier point, which is really to do with the political culture and the lenses through which the Pacific are viewed. Unfortunately, I think there is a tendency, particularly for traditional Western powers, to view the Pacific through historical and securitized lenses.

any changes in who's participating in and working with Pacific Island nations is viewed as a threat to the prevailing order of things.

That's very unfortunate and it will only change when Pacific Island nations themselves, of course, continue to exercise their sovereign autonomy to work with the partners it so chooses and for them to insist that, in fact, they aren't going to be someone else's pawns.

As for China's role, I think that China can only continue to pursue the model of being an enabling power that works on the basis of respecting national sovereignty and leaves open the door for collaborations with others. Climate change is a classic example where many of China's technical capabilities, for example,

can and would play a significantly constructive role in relation to the Pacific, both directly and indirectly. And Australia too has plenty of know-how in that arena. This, in a sense, brings to question, I guess,

how the geopolitics will unfold, because right now we have a United States administration which does not see climate change as being of a particularly significant issue. It has an executive that views climate change as being a hoax and a fraud, and that in fact the United States has withdrawn from monarchy.

multilateral agreements concerning climate-related action. So at the moment, the United States has vacated its potential role in this arena. This really does call on other leading nations in the region to step up to the plate. And by that, I mean China and Australia looking and exploring at

at genuine projects where their respective know-hows can be mobilized to deliver real and tangible outcomes in the Pacific for the people that live in the region. So Chen, looking ahead, how does China envision the next phase of its cooperation with Pacific island countries? And also we know during this third China-Pacific islands summit,

countries foreign ministers meeting, both sides agreed to align cooperation with national development plans and regional aspirations. So how will China ensure that these commitments are not perceived as empty promises, but are instead translated into meaningful and locally driven outcomes?

Yeah, so China attaches great importance to building a closer community with Pacific Island countries for a shared future. And this partnership will be built on at least the three principles. And the first one is China reiterates its policy on developing relations with Pacific Island countries in full implementation of full respects, namely the sovereignty and independence, the will,

the ethnic and cultural traditions and also efforts to seek strength through unity. And the second is China is willing to address the primary strategic considerations of Pacific island countries and continue to support and also assist them as it can in economic development and also livelihood improvement.

And the third is in the international arena, especially in addressing climate change, China will continue to support Pacific Island countries calling and also within the framework of the South's cooperation, China is committed to providing assistance and support as well.

And if we see from a more specific areas, I think to address the climate change and also to build climate resilience will continue to be the main focus of the corporation. And the attention will specifically be set in energy transition and also renewable development, as our panelists already mentioned just now. Given the Pacific regions, you know, it's

extreme vulnerability to climate impacts and also China's global climate commitments. So Pacific Island countries, they enjoy very rich renewable energy resources and have set ambitious renewable energy targets.

But they have been facing challenges such as lack of technical capacity. And on the other hand, China has got very rich experience in developing renewable energy and also it is now the world's largest renewable energy investor.

So there is much space for both China and Pacific Island countries to enhance the renewable energy cooperation. And also there has been projects like previously the solar microgrids founded by China in Fiji and also Vanuatu.

and also for blue economy and also green development like green shipping and also poor electrification. So I think both sides will aim to expand further cooperation in this regard in the future. And Professor Tart, Pacific Island countries have agreed that to support China's initiatives such as for peace and security,

So in your view, how do you see China's role in promoting peace and development in the South Pacific region? And from Pacific Island countries' perspective, how do they view the future outlook with China's involvement in their country's development?

China has definitely got an important role to play in the region when it comes to peace and security. I think it's important that this role that China plays not be seen in the kind of zero-sum terms that have been referred to earlier because that is not going to be productive in the long term. And I think for the Pacific going forward,

China's got a key role to play in the maritime domain. It's increasing in terms of policing cooperation. These initiatives, as you know, have often been portrayed in very negative terms by traditional partners. But the reality is, I think they're here to stay. The effort to perhaps curtail China's involvement

is certainly evident when you see some of the bilateral treaties and arrangements that have been concluded, such as with the Australia

and the Pacific. But I think it'd be more productive and constructive in the future for everyone if ways are found to work more closely together and to align the priorities of our partners with the needs and the priorities of the Pacific. So I think there's a lot of potential. We're obviously in a world that's changing fast, that's in flux, and there is a lot of unpredictability, instability, and China can lend its resources

I think wait to try and ensure stability going forward and supporting a multilateral rules-based order that is in everyone's interests. And I think when it comes to what China wants and what the Pacific want, they're not always going to see eye to eye. It's definitely the case that they are different. And it's how they manage those differences as well and able to work together with mutual trust and respect. With that, we're wrapping up this episode of Chat Lounge.

I've been speaking with Chen Xi, Assistant to the Director at the New Zealand Studies Centre, East China Normal University, Professor Sandra Tart, Associate Professor in the School of Law and Social Sciences, University of the South Pacific in Fiji, and Professor Warwick Powell, Adjunct Professor at Queensland University of Technology in Australia. Thank you so much for listening. Have a great weekend.

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