Episode 1611 - Sophie Buddle
01:22:26 Share

Hey, sometimes it takes a little push to get you going in the new year, right? And Peloton can give you the push you need to keep you on top of your fitness goals. I'm lucky. I've got mountains outside my window always reminding me that it's time to go on a hike. But if you don't have that, you can have Peloton offering you a variety of challenging classes that can fit into your schedule.

You can challenge yourself anywhere with Peloton's all-access membership. Work out at home or take your favorite classes on the go and at the gym with the Peloton app. Find your push. Find your power with Peloton at onepeloton.com.

Becoming Led Zeppelin explores the origins of rock's greatest band and their meteoric rise in just one year against all odds. Powered by awe-inspiring, psychedelic, never-before-seen footage, performances, and music, Bernard McMahon's experimental cinematic odyssey explores Led Zeppelin's creative, musical, and personal origin story in the band's own words.

as the first officially sanctioned documentary on the group. A one-week exclusive IMAX engagement starts February 7th in theaters everywhere. February 14th, tickets at becomingledzeppelinfilm.com. All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck, Knicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. Here we go.

How's everything out there? How are you doing? How are you handling it? Are you okay? Are you paralyzed? Are you despondent on your couch, at your desk? Are you despondent at the gym? Are you doing everything you can to try to get out of the hole of despair and misery? Are you? Well, look, a lot of it's out of your control. So, you know...

Take a load off. Yeah, but it's happening. Here we go. America is getting greater by the minute. It feels so great to have a third of the population paralyzed in fear. What an amazing feeling it must be for them. That's the hardest part to get around is that, yeah, they love it. They love that you're terrified. They love that you're scared. They love that you're in pain. They love that you're concerned. I mean, the fact that that fucking guy is,

that the church takes offense to a minister asking him to be merciful. Like that was some affront. How dare you? How dare you ask me to have a heart or empathy or sympathy or any sense of human connection to the peoples whose lives I'm going to ruin. I'm going to ruin it because so many people just love it.

They love it. Rip them out of their homes. They love it. Put them on buses. Oh, my God. Separate them from their kids. Ooh, it's the best. Why isn't there a round-the-clock station just showing this? Oh, man. Empathy is for suckers.

They don't know how good this feels to thoroughly enjoy people in pain, people in fear, people who are hopeless. Oh, I'm eating their fucking hearts like it's a fucking cake. Yeah, so I don't know what you do with that. You know what I mean? I hope it was all worth it to get the price of groceries down for those of the people that are just kind of half in. Just...

Made the decision just to sort of get their feet wet and work on a kind of a reactive, emotionally reactive decision against the status quo of an attempt at decency. Yeah, just, yeah, it just makes me feel better. I hope that loaf of bread is worth it, all that blood and pain. I guess people can detach themselves from that. But look, on a lighter note,

There's another huge fire north of here. So, yeah, I've been kind of monitoring that. I don't think I'm in any danger right now. But you just watch that goddamn map and it's astounding. They're popping up everywhere. The layers of fear and despair available right now are, man, it is just a fucking massive, massive bludgeoning force in my brain right

I know you guys are feeling it, but, you know, maybe have some ice cream or something. Huh? Maybe have a little ice cream, you know, maybe take a break from it. Maybe maybe just don't check in until nine. You know, look, I I only wish and I'm not speaking as somebody who does this. The idea that we do what we can and we feel like there's nothing we can do is real, right?

The idea that we don't have anyone watching our backs or representation that seems to be snapping into action in any way. Granted, it's only been a few days and we all expected all of this to happen. I was a bit surprised at the hell Hitlers by the richest man in the world. That was not a great feeling. I don't think for anybody that the partnership of the bombastic greed demon and the richest guy in the world.

Who has his fingers on all the knobs of our minds. Him and a few others. That whole allegiance doesn't seem great. Huh? Controlling us all from our phones. Doesn't seem great. All those things you signed up for. They know it all. All right. Today on the show, I'm going to talk to a Sophie Buttle. She's a very funny comic.

She opened for me. Where did I work with her? I guess we worked together at Largo. She's from Canada originally. She's very funny. She's currently touring. And yeah, that's going to happen. And she's fun. I put some walnuts out for the squirrel. So we'll see what happens with that. I did it before. But anyway, just kind of watching the fires in the real world here and in the political world there. Yeah. I do wish, though.

on some level that people were as focused and in, and full of intent and fury as firefighters are. I talked about this, the last show, just it's a miracle. Thank God that they exist. People that love fighting fires, real ones. I wish half of us could find that passion for fighting metaphorical fires and

that are just burning down our social fabric and our political reality. But no, man, I don't know. What do I do? I just watched 12, 14, you know, IG posts about this and everybody seems sad. What do I do? I guess I could, you know what I'll do? I'll post one of my own. That ought to do it. It won't. Anyway, cats are good. Cats are good.

And I've learned that chickpeas and lentils are the way to go. These are the things that are happening. I cleaned out my office, getting rid of a lot of books, shredded a lot of papers, and had some Indian food, read an article on chickpeas and lentils, which I eat constantly, chickpeas, because I was wondering what was making my guts better. Thought it was the magnesium, potassium, aspartate. But no, I think it's the chickpeas and pickled stuff.

Yeah, so maybe you should think a little bit about that. Chickpeas, pickled stuff, kitty cats. All right, guys, listen up. If you're dealing with hair loss, it doesn't mean you can't find it again. When you try HIMS, you'll be joining hundreds of thousands of subscribers who stopped hair loss and grew back their confidence.

When you use HIMSS, you get clinically proven treatments that can regrow hair in as little as three to six months. And you don't even have to visit a doctor to get started. It's 100% online. You just answer a few questions and a medical provider will determine if treatment is right for you. If prescribed, your treatment is sent to you for free.

No insurance is needed, and one low price covers everything from treatments to ongoing care. Start your free online visit today at HIMS.com slash WTF. That's H-I-M-S dot com slash WTF for your personalized hair loss treatment options.

Hymns.com slash WTF. Results vary based on studies of topical and oral minoxidil and finasteride. Prescription products require an online consultation with a health care provider who will determine if a prescription is appropriate. Restrictions apply. See website for full details and important safety information. Oh, my God. We are in the we're in the soup, man. The hell soup.

I think it's funny when these trolls, it's all about trolls. They're all trolling. It's all constant. They love to get us worked up and then call us crazy. You're not crazy. You're not crazy if you're able to experience empathy, concern, the desire for the well-being of your fellow Americans,

in a way that they can live their life the way they want to live it without being terrified of being brutalized mentally, spiritually, or psychologically. You're not crazy. I mean, I think you should be angry. I think anger would be good.

But, you know, if you don't temper it a little bit, they're just going to call you crazy. Oh, look at them flying off the handle. Look at the meltdown. They're all melting down. No, no, no one's melting down. It's the reasonable reaction to fascism if you aren't on board. The reasonable reaction is, fuck this shit. God damn it. Now what do we do? How do we fight this shit? These fuckers.

They've dehumanized everybody other than them with all types of devices that keep happening, whether it's conspiracy theories or just name calling or now legislation. Dehumanizing, not a great first step towards anything other than getting rid of the dehuman. But again, ice cream's good. Watch an old movie. You know what I mean?

We're not crazy. And you should try to stay that way. A lot of people are going down. A lot of people are losing their minds. Can't say that I won't. Don't know. A lot of people are taking their own life. A lot of people are, you know, unable to get out of a chair. A lot of people can't stop looking at their phone and allowing it to beat the shit out of their brain and

Because of, I don't think it's a need to be afraid, but if you are wired a certain way, there's a certain way of being where you always thought you were a little fucked and now you're way fucked along with a lot of other people.

But if you can try to temper that shit, I know you don't want to feel out of the loop. I'm having a hard time not seeing where that fire is. There's so many fires just popping up. I can't even... It's hard to frame it because it is utterly apocalyptic. And, you know, it's hard to not think that, like, this is it. The world is going. I really didn't think I'd be alive for this shit. Glad I don't have kids. A little worried about my cats. But...

Yeah, I'm going to go do some comedy tonight. I got the tour coming up. I'll be in Santa Barbara, California at the Lobero Theater on Thursday, January 30th. Then I'm in San Luis Obispo, California at the Fremont Center on Friday, January 31st. Golden State Theater in Monterey.

By the Beach, Saturday, February 1st. Ingler Theater, Iowa City, Thursday, February 13th. Des Moines, Iowa at Hoyt Sherman Place, Friday, February 14th. Kansas City, Missouri, Midland Theater, Saturday, February 15th. Asheville, North Carolina at the Orange Peel on Thursday, February 20th. That's sold out.

I'm sorry, I'm only doing one show. Should I do another show? I don't know. Nashville, Tennessee at the James K. Polk Theater on Friday, February 21st. Not sold out. Come on down. What happened to you people in Nashville? Don't tell me. I know. And Lexington, Kentucky at the Lexington Opera House on Sunday, February 22nd. Those should be big shows for me down in those states. Then in March and April, I'll be coming to Oklahoma, Texas, South Carolina, Illinois, Michigan. Go to WTFpod.com slash tour for all my dates and links to tickets. New dates will be

showing up soon. That's quite a, quite a few red States there, but you know, I know you guys are there, the huddled masses, keep them quiet, waiting for something to happen that you can relate to. That'll reconnect you with the, the, the, the sort of empathetic or at least connective laughter that you need in, in moments to somehow feel better in this shit storm of ideology and

and weather. Hope you have good friends. Hope you find some way to be proactive. But this is going to go on for a while, and I can't do these pep talks all the time. As I said, chickpeas are good. Watching a movie is nice. Eating ice cream. Spending time with people you love. But don't just do it in just a state of panic. Unless you have to evacuate. Looks like Mark Norman had a baby. Congratulations.

I don't follow. I have a very weird follow list on Instagram, but I saw that Mark had a baby. Okay, so here we go. Sophie Buttle is here. Her 2025 tour dates are posted on her Instagram page and at sophiebuttlecomedy.com. I like her. She's funny. And we had a nice chat during the fires. So this is me talking to Sophie.

It's a new year, folks, so why not set those expectations high? Right now, the sky's the limit, so take aim at something bold, like challenging yourself to learn a new language or 25 new languages. Rosetta Stone is the world-class language learning program that can get you started, available on your desktop or as an app. I know you're all excited to learn more about Rosetta Stone.

I know what kind of listeners I have. And you're curious, intelligent, and always on the lookout for new things. You're the perfect people to start learning new languages with Rosetta Stone. Millions of Rosetta Stone users have learned how to speak 25 different languages, including Spanish, French, Italian, German, Korean, Chinese, Japanese, Dutch, Arabic, and Polish.

Lifetime membership gives you access to all 25 languages. So start the new year off with a resolution you can reach. Today, WTF listeners can take advantage of Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. Visit rosettastone.com slash WTF. That's 50% off unlimited access to 25 language courses for the rest of your life. Redeem your 50% off at rosettastone.com slash WTF today. Wait, so you can...

Just opt out of anxiety. That's the kind of will you have? Well, I'm depressive leaning. I'm not anxiety leaning. So different issues. So in moments of crisis, you just get sad? I think I'm not very connected to my emotions. And so in moments of crisis, I don't feel that I'm really analyzing it at all. I think I'm...

Yeah, I'll get sad afterwards, but I don't really experience anxiety. Ever? The most anxious, truly, I've been in my life has been this week, just surrounded by fires. Yeah. But I would say that I don't have anxiety now. Well, I mean, yeah, but I mean, but in relation to this, I mean, where do you live? West Hollywood. So...

What went down over there? We had to evacuate. You were above Hollywood Boulevard? Yeah, the sunset fire was right next to my place. I saw that from my hotel room where I evacuated for safety. I evacuated. I know, but I was like, I left here.

You know, in order to avoid whatever I thought was coming. And I got a hotel at that Hampton Inn on Vine, just up from Santa Monica. Yeah. And I got the cat settled and I was like, all right, I'll be okay here tonight. And I'm looking out my window and I saw the hillside explode. I... Exploded. It was really, it was really crazy. I first, I was gaslighting my boyfriend because I was...

And then he came into the kitchen and said, I smell fire. And then I said, no, I'm just boiling pasta. That's what you smell. And then he said, no, it really smells really smoky. It smells like fire. And I said, you sound crazy. I was gaslighting him. You sound so crazy. I also have the kettle on because I'm going to make tea. You just wouldn't accept it. Well, I just, I really, for some reason, didn't think that it was...

Fire. It was fire. And then we turned on the news and we could see our street. Our street was the one that's like, it's touching the...

Uh-huh. So we decided to evacuate. You live right up in the hills there? No, no, just west Hollywood. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No shit. But walkable to Runyon. Right. Not anymore, obviously. Well, no, I mean, the geography is still there. That's true. I mean, what, they've got it all closed off? I imagine so. Oh, you haven't tried? You didn't feel like a hike today? No. Have you been outside at all? Have you been trying to not go outside? The air's good here today. Yeah, it is good.

I mean, like, I look at the app and, like, it's like the air is okay today. Yeah. But so did you see the fire from your house? Yeah, yeah. I got some pictures. It was really close. So in that moment, you felt anxiety. Yeah.

It felt a little exciting. I think people that have more depression than anxiety, it almost feels good to feel something, to get the blood pumping, because my resting heart rate is so low. It's kind of boring. What is your resting heart rate? Four? I don't know. I don't know how to measure it. You get one of these dumb watches of one kind or another. Maybe. I'm obsessed with my resting heart rate. But does it upset you to see it?

No, if it's low, it's good. I mean, I don't have high blood pressure. My resting heart rate is good because I exercise a lot. My cholesterol is a little borderline, but the rest of it is okay. The pumper. So you ran off, do you have pets? No, no pets. That was easy. Yeah, my boyfriend and I went to Anaheim and stayed at a hotel for a couple days. You just got your go bags together? Did you bring your papers? Yes, that was the first thing that I packed. Well, I had packed

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I grabbed so many things that were replaceable. Like, you know, I grabbed my laptop. Well, that's the weird thing, you know, like about these evacuations here is that you realize when you drive across town, everything's still there, right?

Like, you know, you can just go to Target. You can go get whatever you need. Go to a bank machine. Like I evacuated. I brought like two pairs of underwear, a couple pairs of socks, cat food and cash. Like I was going to make it down to Mexico with just the bare essentials. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it's really does let you know how you're going to react in an apocalyptic situation.

Well, I think for the apocalyptic situation, like for real, you better bring a better go bag. I think so, too. I don't think my work visa is going to fight off any looters. Well, I mean, it's just sort of like, you know, then it's sort of like, is there going to be electricity? Every emergency situation requires this, like, hand crank radio. Yeah, you got to get the hand crank radio. Yeah. Like, I mean, when was the last time you listened to a fucking radio? Never. Never.

I'm a young, beautiful woman. I don't know the radio. Radio, that's from another time. That's like old-timey shit. Yeah. Yeah.

No radios in the house? Parents, no radios? No, my parents both like the radio. My dad had a radio show, so he's a real... And my mom's an artist, and she always has the radio on in her art room. Oh, yeah? Mm-hmm. Where they listen to music or the public radio? Music, just music. The light talking folks. I think mostly music. Yeah? Yeah, but I like talk radio. Yeah, I don't know. I don't listen to anything but music.

I used to listen to NPR. I used to know all the folks working on NPR giving me the news. You don't listen to NPR anymore? I don't. I don't know why. I used to listen in my car. I think I feel like I'm getting the information that they're getting on my phone. So I could do NPR if I look at the right sources. I kind of get it. Well, definitely listening comes after reading. Like they...

You know, they put out the news in writing first, and then they decide what story is worth talking about. Well, thank you for telling me how that works, Sophie. I appreciate it. No problem. That's why I'm here. I'll just really break it down for you. It was all a mystery to me. I thought they were just getting it through their earpieces as it happened. No, if you can believe it, a lot of them actually write the stories that you read. That's pretty cool. I think that's called journalism. Hmm.

Yeah. We don't have that in Canada. You have no journalism in Canada? So wait, what was the problem with the work visa? How does that, like, have you ever been deported? No, I've never been deported. From here? I've never been deported from America. True. Right. But my work visa got denied, which was, it was just a real shock. What do you make of that?

Well, I think that my lawyer made a mistake, and so I got a new lawyer. But she maintains that she did not make a mistake. So I don't know what happened. Now, do you know people that have, like, how does that, are they on top of that shit? Well, I don't know. I know hundreds of Canadian comics, and I don't know anybody who's ever had their visa denied. But maybe they just don't talk about it. But I was really shocked by that. Do you know any that are just here without visas? No.

Of course. Right. Yeah, maybe I shouldn't talk about it, but there used to be a really good legal loophole for Canadian comedians, which was the Cirque du Soleil visa. Have you heard about this? No, I like the sound of it, though. It sounds fun. Yeah, so because Cirque du Soleil has, you know, they have all their people and they travel all over the world, they have a pretty simple visa for their performers, but also for all the people to set up the tents and that kind of thing. And so the person who,

booked or bankrolled or whatever at Cirque du Soleil was a big fan of Canadian stand-up comedians. Okay. So she would give Canadian comics the Cirque du Soleil visa and they could come to the States and perform. This is one person at the customs agency or who was it? It's one person that works at Cirque du Soleil. Oh, Cirque du Soleil. Yeah, I didn't do that visa. I was too late to that one, but it was pretty good. So they got wind of that loophole?

I believe it was closed a few years ago, yes. So you just have a regular work visa? Yeah. But like... No gymnastics. What about, is that different than the living visa?

The living visa? Well, I mean, like, you have a visa that allows you to work, and that's not separate from the visa just enabling you to be here. Yeah, the work visa is what allows me to be here. Okay. So now you think, like, have you known anybody that had an expired work visa or no work visa, and they were taken away?

No, but usually you have something like 180 days of grace period after your work visa expires if you're still with the company that applied for your work visa for you. But because I was with ICM at the time and ICM applied for my work visa and ICM no longer exists.

I didn't get that grace period. Oh, I see. So that's why you think your lawyer screwed up because they didn't update it to your current agency? I think that could be what it is. I haven't looked too much into it because now I have a work visa. Everything's all set. I got a new lawyer, got a new work visa, and I'm all set. So I only look forward. And you're with a new agency? Yeah. ICM. What happened to ICM? I can't remember. They got bought by CAA. Oh, right. Okay. So you were at CAA now?

No, I'm at WME now. Oh, so you went over there. Yeah. They sold you a bill of goods. Sounded right. Well, no, I was with CAA and then they dropped me. So I went over to WME. Yeah. Canadians. I'm waiting to hear about my application for PR. Really? Yeah. Have you spent a lot of time in Canada? I have. Enough. For touring or for other stuff? Well, it was sort of like this...

I wanted to be able to do it because I wanted to be able to get out. Because I do not, you know, I am a catastrophic thinker and I don't think things are going to go well. I don't think they're going to, I just don't want to be, I don't want to be the Jew at the border without his papers. Absolutely. If I'm going to head north, I want to have more than just a few scripts.

or ideas. I don't want to be accustomed to pitching them some show ideas for CBC. No, but they would love to have you at CBC.

It feels like, you know, everyone gets a shot at CBC if you hang around Canada long enough. I worked at CBC for many years. I wrote for a show called 22 Minutes, which is a CBC, like, news comedy program. Yeah. Do you know the show that Robbie Hoffman wrote for? The children's show? She wrote for a children's show forever. I know that she wrote for a children's show, but I never knew what it was. I can't remember which one, but, like, what a gig. I know. I wonder if it was Télé Française. That was, like, the really iconic one. Oh, I don't know if it was French. Maybe it was. Hmm. Huh. Yeah.

So you...

Come from Canada. That's your place. I do come from Canada. I didn't know who you were. You just showed up and you were just, you know, full of the juice, the beans. Yeah, I'm full of beans. And we also have a shared best friend, Allie Makovsky. She's picking me up here later. Oh, really? Yeah, we're going to go see The Brutalist. Oh, I thought she was going to go do that yesterday. We were supposed to do that yesterday. And then I forget what happened. Time got away from you. Yeah. Yeah, she just worked with me in Napa.

And in Sacramento. How were those shows? Interesting. Okay. I was fairly traumatized on the Friday, and that turned out to be great. Because of the virus? Yeah. Yeah. And my audience is sort of like, okay, this is where he's at. Saturday got a little weird in Napa. Weird how? Some crowd management was necessary. Oh, okay. For both good and bad people.

Had some people that were very excited to see me and were gift givers that needed to do that during the show. And then I had a drunk lady who wouldn't stop yelping. Do you get a lot of drunk ladies at your shows? No, not usually. But that town, I don't know. Like, my theory is on that.

is that Napa is one of those towns where people go for the weekend or for a week to do the wine and, you know, kind of bougie vacation thing. And I do think there might have been some people who were like, what's going on around town? Oh, there's a comedy show. Yeah, almost like a classier Vegas audience. Yeah. Well, I think a lot of my fans came in from the Bay Area, but I do think there were some people that were like, I never heard of this guy. Let's go check it out. And that's a lot.

If you don't know what you're getting into with me, it's not going to be the standard fare.

No, it requires a little bit more of you. Something. Yeah. You opened for me. Where was that? In Austin at Moon Tower. Oh, yeah. That was good. Yeah, that was great. Right? You ready to open for some more? But you're a big shot now. You don't open for people. Yeah, all I do is open for people. I'm opening for Taylor Tomlinson all next month. Really? Mm-hmm. That'll be fun. That will be fun. Your audiences will be good. And now she's like newly gay, so that brings in a whole other bunch. Yes, she's gay now, so now we have the gays as well. Lots of fun. Yeah.

So what part of Canada did you grow up in? Born in Montreal, went to high school in Ottawa, and then right after high school I moved to Vancouver for seven or eight years, and then I moved here. So how long were you in Montreal for? Until I was about five. My mom had to flee the city due to unpaid parking tickets.

That happens in Montreal? For her, it does. She was in school at the time. She was going to McGill and she would just drive her- When she had you? Yeah. Yeah. So she would take me into the classes. How old was she when she had you? 28. Oh. And so, yeah. She was going back to school.

No, I think that she was just going to school then. Okay. I believe, but she was going to school for math. For math? Yeah, for like abstract math. She's a smart girl. Wow. Okay. And she would drive up right to the front door of whatever building she had a class in and just would leave her car there. And then when she would come back, you know, there'd be a ticket or two and she'd just put it in the backseat and forget about it.

And then that ended up really following her for a long time. And eventually she lent someone her car and then they immediately got arrested for the amount of unpaid parking tickets and put a boot on her car. Yeah. And then we went to Ottawa. So she didn't pay the tickets? No, and she said that she's still scared to drive in Montreal. Wow. So you weren't really like, you weren't...

forced to leave. We were refugees. From Montreal. Yeah. Do you speak French? Yeah. Really? Yeah. Does your mom speak French? Yes. Everybody speaks French. Yeah. Your mom's a Montreal person? My mom and my dad both spent all their 20s in Montreal, yeah. And what's your dad do?

Both my parents were teachers. They're both like artists, but both became teachers after they had a kid accidentally. Are you Jewish? Are you Montreal Jewish? Yeah. All the way through? Yeah. Mom signed. Yeah. This is like a big Jewish thing in Montreal, huh? It is a big Jewish thing. Kind of trendy. Yeah.

Well, that seems to be where the Jews in Canada are. No, totally. There's no Jews in Vancouver at all. There's not? I don't know which one. Because I left, and so that was, I was the Jewish neighborhood. Yeah. They put an article in the paper. Yeah. The Jew is gone. We got her. She's out. She's out. Yeah. We got her a work visa. Yeah.

Have fun in America. Have you been following Canadian politics stuff at all this week? Well, I know that Trudeau's out. That's the headline. You got it. Yeah, I know that. And I know the guy that's gunned him for the position seems like kind of a douche. Yeah, Pierre Palliet, the conservative. It seems like everybody in Canada has sort of agreed that it's just going to be him. Yeah. Because he's conservative and not...

openly racist. And so it seems kind of just like it's going to be him. Yeah. And there's, but is there any other, is there any lefties that are running against him? Yeah. They're still trying to decide who's going to lead the liberal party. But I think this is a really good opportunity for the NDP to gain some ground. I've only ever voted for the NDP. They're the more progressive party. And that stands for National...

Penis. Yeah. What is it? New Democrat Party. All right. So, okay. Maybe you can educate me because, like, you know, I might have to live in Canada. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, you should know this. I think you would really like the NDP. They started it in, I believe, the 60s or the 70s. They're based on the labor movement in the UK. And they run on workers' rights and better coverage for pharmaceuticals, for health care, and free child care for mothers, including dental. They don't have that in Canada? No. No.

Really? Yeah. And NDP is the only party that runs on that. So what does socialized medicine cover? It does cover a lot, but the few things that it doesn't cover... Like, to me, it's crazy to... If you're going to cover health care, you have to cover dental, too. Dental is a huge part of health care. Yeah. You only got one pair of teeth. Yeah, and that's pretty pricey, but I guess they make it optional. It's like, well, we can just...

You have no teeth or we can put new ones in there. So there's probably a lot of Canadians just missing big chunks of teeth. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, we also we love we love the Queen and we love England. So we keep our bad teeth to honor the English. OK, so it's what's the system? It's a is it a parliamentary system? Yes.

Yes, it's the parliamentary system. The main three parties are definitely the liberals, the conservatives and the NDP. OK. And there have been times that the NDP have been the opposition party. And I think that this is this actually could be a time that the NDP rises up again. So the way it works is that there's a majority party that and they and the prime minister comes from that. Yes.

Right now, the liberals only had a minority in parliament, but they still had the biggest chunk. So they were in charge. And now, generally speaking, like my impressions of Canada have shifted over the years. Like, you know, I'd go to Montreal, I'd go to the festival and I'd be like, this place is a filthy, sexy, you know, French fucking mess. Correct. Correct.

What was the joke I did up there? I said, because I said, it's weird in Montreal. It looks like everybody is like, you know, five minutes from just like fucking in the street. Yeah.

And in Vancouver, it looks like everyone's like five minutes away from hiking. Yes, yes. That's perfect. You got it. You absolutely nailed it. I think I did that on my gala that nobody saw that I hosted. Yeah, nobody saw the galas I did either, but.

How is that fucking possible? I never hear anything. I've appeared on so many of those galas and then I hosted one. Not one tweet, not one email, not one anything. I think one person said I saw it on a plane. No, it is a real travesty because...

Watching the Just for Laughs galas on TV are a really big part of Canada's genetics. Really? And I grew up watching Just for Laughs. Yeah, Just for Laughs. So they're just keeping it to themselves? Yeah, it basically just shows up on TV. They don't really have a huge social media presence. They don't really do clips, which I think is a disaster. But what about the people watching it? I mean, I couldn't have done that badly that nobody would say anything. Right.

Like, I don't get, like, usually, you know, you get an email on your website, like, hey, just saw you on the go. A pretty good job. Or even a tweet or something. No, that's true. I think, I think truly it's, I think usually messages and comments come because they saw a clip online, either promoting it or a clip from it. And I think, I think people watch stuff on TV and then they also, they don't know if it's new. They don't know if it's old. Like if something's on TV. I just think Canadians just don't.

They don't get they don't volunteer as much information. They're not as needy or as, you know, look at me ish. I think it's also Canadians are really opposed to imposing themselves on others. Yeah, I think that's it. I think sending a message would would feel like imposing yourself. I hear some other observations I've had about Canada recently. You know, I want to know if so, like I used to think.

Once I got out of Montreal, that's its own thing. Like it doesn't like I know it's Canada, but it's its own thing. Totally. But the other like I've been to Toronto. I've shot stuff in Toronto. I've performed in Toronto. I've been to Winnipeg. I've been to Edmonton. I've been to Calgary. I've been to the Victoria. I've been and then I've spent a lot of time in Vancouver because I just shot up there last year. Yeah. For three months. Awesome.

And I used to think, you know, Canada was boring. Yes. But as I get older, I'm like, well, maybe it's just nice. Yeah. No, exactly what you mean. And I'm feeling sort of the same thing because I left Canada because I felt bored because I felt like I had kind of done everything there was to do, at least in comedy in Canada. And then I left and then now I'm American. So I don't care about Canada. I don't think about it at all. No. Woo. It goes right away. America number one.

I realize now as all of these horrible things happen around us that Canada is really nice and safe and comfortable. It just doesn't have a great... An edge to it. Doesn't have an edge to it. It doesn't have entertainment industry. So if you're in entertainment, it doesn't feel like it doesn't make sense to live there. Unless you're like Brent Butt or something. Exactly. Unless you're specifically Brent Butt only. Yeah.

He's the only one. I love Brett, but he's... Oh, he's great. Yeah. He's the greatest. But also, I realized recently that there's something... First of all, when you're American and you're sensitive or you're freaked out because of the political or cultural climate here...

Right when you get off the plane in Canada, it's gone. Yeah. You're like, it's not here. Whatever that frenetic, chaotic zeitgeist of the American consciousness, cultural, it just doesn't exist up there. Like, you're all quick to say, like, well, we know what's going on down there. But you're not infected by it. No, it does feel very separate. You do feel sort of bubble wrapped. Yeah. But you get off. I got off the plane. I was like, oh, my God.

Thank God it's not here. Well, it just feels clean and there's no guns. That's a big deal, man. The no guns, I think, is the biggest difference. But also it is so much less populated than everywhere in America. That's what you realize. Because when I told people I might want to live up there...

You know, there's certain like political people I know, they're like, well, it's going to be up there too. I'm like, yeah, but no one lives up there. There's like 38 million people in the entire fucking country. Yeah. How bad could it get? Yeah, there's less people in Canada than there are in California. I know. It's crazy with the size of the country. But then also I started to realize like,

Because I was talking to people and there's an intensity to Americans. I think it's fundamentally kind of needy and you need, you know, things need to be lit up. And I just realized that and I think it might be my theory is, well, I feel like there's a ceiling to the Canadian personality. Yes. Yes.

Yeah, well, it's called tall poppy syndrome. I'm sure you've heard of tall poppy syndrome. No. No. So it's the it's, you know, people talk about it in Canada. People talk about it in Australia. I think probably the UK as well, which is Australia. Similar. Yeah. Yeah. Poppies all grow the same height. When there's one that gets too high, it gets killed.

And so everybody really values averageness. Egoism is not valued. If you get too big for your britches, basically, nobody likes that. Oh, I see. And poppies are also where opiates come from. So that there is sort of a calmness to it. Yes.

Tall poppy syndrome. So you can't get too big for your britches in Canada. Yeah. And when you do, if they cut you off, you come to America and become a movie star. That's why, yeah, all of the most polite American movie stars are Canadian, like a Seth Rogen, like a Ryan Gosling. Yeah. They got too big for their britches in Canada, and they're still the most kind of beta Americans. Yeah. I mean, and also what's the name? Ryan Reynolds? Yep. All right. Tall poppy syndrome. I'm glad that's what it's called.

So, Ottawa. I've never been to Ottawa. Ottawa sucks. It's boring. So, I was right not to perform there? Yes. Because I'm going to Toronto instead. Ottawa people are going to be mad at me, but...

Yeah, but they can just drive to Toronto to see me. It has good comedy audiences in Ottawa. Yeah, I would say that the Shining Light in Ottawa are the comedy clubs there. Oh, yeah? Yeah, they've got good clubs. I'm sure you're not doing clubs, but there is a very comedy literate audience in Ottawa. There's a kind of a comedy literate audience in all of Canada. Like Winnipeg is kind of a smart place. I love Winnipeg. Yeah. I mean, you know, terrain wise, it's a little rough.

Sure. No, it would be challenging to live there. But it's a great, great comedy city and great thrifting city. You can like because they have a bunch of Mennonite thrift stores. And I think Mennonites don't believe in being greedy or something. And so you can actually get like furniture for like three bucks. And a lot of black clothing.

Yeah, a lot of modest stuff for sale. No, they keep that for themselves. They sell regular stuff. But they make the furniture, right? No, no. They have like a Mennonite-owned thrift store. Oh, I see. Yeah. Okay. I think like, I don't know. I thought the Amish or the Mennonites, they're making their furniture. Am I thinking of the Shakers?

That's shaker furniture. I couldn't tell you. To me, that's all the same. Yeah. That's all Amish. It's all Amish. To me, that's all Amish. It's Amish and driving Amish. Yeah. Amish and then Amish with electricity. Quick Amish. Yeah. Faster Amish. So when do you... Too fast. Too Amish. When do you start performing? Because you seem like one of those people that performs...

Yeah, I'm on the road pretty much every weekend. No, but I mean, like, when you're a kid, when does it all happen? When I was a kid? Yeah, like, when do you start doing things? Where do you start realizing you're an entertainer? Well, because both my parents are artists, they...

What kind of artists? My dad's a musician and my mom is a painter. So they both had me. My dad had me in music classes and my mom had me in art classes. What kind of music does he do? Well, I played saxophone because my dad played saxophone. So he's a jazz guy? Yeah, he's jazz and punk rock.

Punk rock sax player. Yep. Not too many of those. Mm-mm. Huh. Just Peter Buttle. Peter Buttle. Yeah. Did he put out some records? Pete Buttle. No, but he's been in lots of bands that has stuff out there. His big band in Montreal in the 90s was Hazy Azure. Hazy Asher? Hazy Azure. Hazy Azure. Yeah. Okay. So that was the punk band? Yep. Okay.

So they had like a front man and your dad had spiky hair. He has really long hair in a braid, really long, like kind of jazzy. And were they popular? I'm under the impression they were popular. But he also does some kind of laid back jazz maybe as he gets older. Yeah, he loves jazz. He's always loved jazz and he's always loved punk. Those are his two. So he's a music teacher?

No, he taught, he did adult, he recently retired, but he taught adults, he taught inmates in a prison. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, math and English, but he's a really, he's like huge. He's like six foot seven and he's a big, you know, punk rock guy. So he's kind of uniquely suited to be able to.

To go into the prison and feel comfortable. To hold this space in a prison. Yeah. So you grew up with a lot of music in the house. And your mom's a painter? Yeah. Yeah. So they both really always encouraged creative stuff. No. Oils and gouache. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Really beautiful painter. But like she paints things.

She'll paint things. Right now she's really into bridges. Painting the bridges. Mm-hmm. And does she sell her paintings? So she's actually going to do her first show this year. She took a big break from painting when she was raising me because my parents were not together, so I was mostly with my mom.

They're not? No. When did that happen? I think when I was conceived. That was it? I've never really gotten a clear answer on when they broke up. And to me, that tells me pretty clearly. Do you have siblings? Nope. Just you? Just me. One accident. Your dad was out. Whoops. Yeah. And then he moved to Vancouver. We moved to Ottawa. So...

It was. It seemed like a pretty clean break. So I guess they don't talk. I don't think that they talk. Maybe happy birthdays to each other. But you did share time. Yeah, I did summers with my dad, rest of the year with my mom. Oh, so really you just grew up with your mom. Yeah, mostly. And that was in Ottawa. Yeah. So when do you start thinking like you're going to be a comedian and why? Um.

I always did a lot of writing. I liked to do writing. I'd write little stories. And then my mom had me in doing kind of little child actor type things. Oh, really? And so I never booked, but... She drove you around auditions? Drove me around auditions. And so I always sort of liked acting and I sort of liked writing. And then she took me to a comedy club when I was 14. And I started doing comedy shortly after that. At 14? Yeah. Were you like one of those...

Were there freakish young acts that would show up at the Montreal Comedy Festival when you were like 14 or 15? Mm-mm. I was... First of all, I had told everybody that I was 20 so that I could get into the clubs. And then I also had no success for like five years. I didn't do any festivals. Didn't even do a guest spot, I think, until I was like five years in. But were you like this kind of...

Circus act in the way that like, let's go watch the little girl do it. No, I think. Because they didn't know. I think I was, I was trying to be very adult. I had jokes about sex. I was not having sex yet, but I was. At 14, that's good. I was trying to be, I was trying to be mature. Well, I'm glad that that whole tone is stuck with you this long. Yeah, it was all I know how to do at this point. Now I am having sex. Thank God. Shout out to sex.

Did you talk about sex a lot? Yeah. Sex and politics. Sex and politics. Yeah. What else is there? Food? Religion, but I don't really talk about religion. Did you grow up with religion? No, just vague Judaism. Oh, yeah? Yeah. You'd go to temple once a year? I don't remember ever going to temple, but we were all very actively Jewish. And definitely, you know, my grandpa was the one that was the most religious. Is Montreal grandpa? Yeah.

He was from England, but he lived in Ottawa. British Jew, yeah, from London. Oh, I like British Jews. Yeah, he came over on a ship and joined the Canadian Army to pay for medical school. Uh-huh. And then... He was a doc? Yeah, he was a surgeon. Oh, wow. Yeah, and then he died when I was like 12, which was very hard. Yeah, we were very close. But it was very Jewish. It was very Jewish. Yeah. Yeah. That's nice. Yeah. Grandma, too? Yep. Yep.

Yeah. Well, grandma converted to marry him. Oh, really? Yeah. And then his parents died never knowing that she was not a born Jew. Yeah. Sometimes the converts are more convincing. Yeah. She's really taken to Judaism. It suits her well. Is she around still? Oh, yeah. Really? Around with it. Sharp.

You got a grandparent alive? I have three grandparents alive. It was just my one grandfather died. Jesus, how old are you? I am 30. Okay. Yeah. That's nice. It is nice. So when does the depression start to consume you? At nighttime or... But you were like, are you a depressive? In the afternoon.

I was kind of, I think things can set me in that path. Right now, I don't feel depressed because I got lots going on. I'm touring every weekend. I have this writing job. I'm working on my script. I have friends. So it's not like a chemical thing. It's more of an environmental thing.

Yeah, probably. Probably. When you have nothing to do, you get sad. Yeah, I was really depressed when I first decided I wanted to move to the States. And then I had a phone call with a lawyer to find out how much it would cost.

And I thought I would never be able to afford it. And I was pretty depressed for months and months. And then I got the 22 minutes writing job. In Canada? Yeah. And then that allowed me to pay to move. So you said you did comedy for five years and then it started to click? Yeah. And what, you work in like Breslin's rooms? What are you doing? Yeah, I did Breslin's rooms. I moved to... So I did comedy in Ottawa for a couple years. And then I moved to Vancouver when I was 18. And I started doing... I started doing...

much better in Vancouver and I started touring eventually and headlining. When they still had a club in Vancouver? Yeah, the Comedy Mix. Oh yeah. I kind of remember that place. It was a great club. It was the basement of a hotel. I remember that place. Was that... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's not the old Yuck Yucks, though. Was it an old Yuck Yucks? It might have been a Yuck Yucks before my time, but there is another Yuck Yucks in it. Right. But that one was right like on... On Burrard? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it was like a very small backstage area and there was a curtain. Yes. Yes, right behind. Yeah, it was great. And it closed before COVID because it was a spite closing because a woman...

I don't know if she or her father owned the hotel. Right. And her husband started this comedy club in the basement. Right. And then they got divorced and she just shut down the comedy club. Oh. Yeah. Yeah.

That's terrible. It was horrible. Because I was up there for three months. It's hard to find good spots. Losing the comedy mix was really rough. And then during the pandemic, we lost the yuck yucks. Yeah. There's one out in the burbs somewhere. Yeah, I'm doing that this weekend. What is that called? It's one of the House of Comedies. Right. Yeah. House of Comedies. That's what's his name. There's one in Edmonton. Is that the same one? Yeah. Rick Bronson? Yeah.

Right. Have you done that one in Edmonton? Yeah, I did that one a couple weeks ago. In the giant mall? Yeah, in the giant mall. And you stay at the weird hotel? And you stay at the horrible hotel. And in the hallway, I think like on my floor, there were like horses. Oh, it was, that hotel was rough. There was a comedy condo that they don't have anymore. But man, man, that hotel is difficult. Are you doing clubs when you're trying new stuff? Sometimes. Yeah? I do clubs. The ones I do, I'll do St. Louis, Helium.

To work out shit, I'll do Portland Helium to work out shit. I'll do Denver. Comedy works. You're touring your theater hour now, right? Yes. I had to put it back together because it was like... Did you have to change it because of Trump? Well, no. I mean, we did all the Trump stuff once before, but now it seems more menacing. So I had to shift it.

specifically to fascism as opposed to this Trump guy. This is a fucking problem. Now it's like pretty much across the board, straight up authoritarian time. So there's a different way to approach it. How do you feel about Trump's incoming presidency? Do you feel like it's going to be worse than last time? Oh, yes.

I do, definitely. I think that, you know, this is the end of our system. And, you know, I don't know what that means or how they'll continue to pound away at the edges of it to make it seem like it's still a functioning system. But I don't think that the system survives this. Because he's not going to leave or for a different reason? Well, just because the tactics of...

the party have shifted into, you know, straight up authoritarian tactics. You know, there, there are things that are sort of happening over time that, you know, they get reported as like, oh my God, you know, anybody who doesn't agree with Trump is being terrorized with death threats and, you know, and, and completely bullied into submission with, with true terrorizing, you know, so that's not a democracy. Yeah.

And there doesn't seem to be a functioning other side to it, even though it seems like there's plenty of us out there. I think my fear is that the cultural momentum, you know, that's coming up around the efficiency of propaganda through technology and also comedy, oddly, is shifting, you know, culture towards a more, you know, fascistic direction.

Yeah. One of the things that really surprises me about that is I thought such a fundamental part of the Republican Party was advocating for free speech. And Trump seems to be completely against free speech if it's a criticism of him. Well, him directly, but also the weird thing about the free speech anti-woke business is

Is that it's all pushback on whatever the 60s created for the world. You know, that there was, you know, that people, it just seemed that what Trump did because of what you said was make tolerance a problem. A weakness. Right. Yeah. A weakness or also just a cultural problem. Right. So it's like, why do I have to entertain or put up with tolerance?

Someone who's different than me, if I think they're fundamentally freaks or wrong, liberals, gay, immigrants, whatever. Jews. Jews, yeah. But that's definitely out of the bag now. So all that stuff that...

They were fighting for free speech was the ability to the ability to shut those people down. Yeah. Without respect and without reprisal. And without empathy, without any effort to connect on any level. Our empathy is out. Empathy is out. And.

And we have that with Pierre Palliev in Canada. He's running on anti-wokeness as well. And he's not using it so much with words. Like he's not, he doesn't sound very harsh. He's pretty soft spoken. But he has, I've heard a bunch of times him talk about being against the anti-woke culture.

Being against woke culture. Yeah. Yeah. Pardon me. Being against woke culture. And there's a huge rise of right wing and far right wing leaders in Europe to winning elections. Well, yeah. Well, woke culture is basically social democracy.

I mean, that's what it is. Yeah. You know, the language of equality, of big tent around marginalized people. Well, that's how I think of it. I think of it as helping people that need more help. Yeah. And just evolving your language and your behavior out of respect for your fellow citizens who might be different than you. Yeah. And I realize that I'm very...

I'm very liberal. I'm very progressive in everything except stand-up comedy. I do think that stand... Like, when I look at the comics that I like, everyone is kind of brash and, you know...

has the right message, but doesn't really speak in a woke way. And so I do prefer my politicians to speak in a woke way and to be sensitive to people. But I do think that the one part of the progressive box that I don't fit into is when it comes to stand up. Well, I don't know if that's specifically true, only in the sense that, you know, if your heart's in the right place and you're dirty, who cares? I mean, you're still not...

You know, to fight for a point of view that is specifically enabling you to minimize or push back on vulnerable people. I mean, that's different than just being filthy or talking about fucking. I mean, you're not up there, you know, saying the N-word. No, no, not even in my own stand-up. I just mean in general. I do think that stand-ups...

have a very unique position in society where you can speak, you can speak about things and you can be wrong, I think, more than other people. We have the... Sometimes. A lot of people take jokes as if you're some sort of pundit. No.

No, but that's the thing. That's why I think comics are so unique in society because we're much more free than politicians. We're much more free than like actors. But also if your heart's in the right place, there's a balance to it. And if you're taking certain risks as a stand up in what you say, you can be decisive about it. And hopefully what you're trying to elucidate is something good. Yes.

not shitty. Yes. Yeah. So like, I don't necessarily think that has to be progressive or anything. It's just, there is a freedom. Everyone can always say what they want to, and you shouldn't not be able to say what you want to, but, but there is a way to do it where, you know, the audience is broad and you can still take risks. Yeah. Because if you're just this anti-woke hack,

Now you're just playing for that world. No, no. And I definitely am not talking about that. I just mean a certain freedom that lacks the tippy-toeness of... Oh, yeah. You can push some buttons. Yeah, yeah. That's what I'm looking for. I truly, not at all with politicians, but with comics, I like comics to push some buttons. Yeah, but you're pushing them because it's tantalizing and you can find an edge to it. Yeah. You're not pushing buttons to the point where you're making people cry.

No, no, exactly. And sometimes if people are easily triggered for whatever reason, they can just leave. Yes, and nothing in the world is easier than not watching a certain stand-up comic that you don't like. Absolutely. If somebody's not your cup of tea, you are never going to cross paths with that person. Yeah, and I'll give you your money back. Yeah, enjoy it. Go ahead. Please. Yeah, leave. Yeah, no problem. Bye. So when you started working in, so you were headlining by the time you left? Yes.

Yeah, yeah. I was headlining in Canada for many years, but obviously there's not a ton of cities in Canada, so you can only do so many rounds. And who are the other comics who like making the rounds? Oh, there's a lot. There's a great comic book. Who are some of the old guys that you liked? My favorite is Graham Clark. He's a Vancouver-based. With his long beard now? With his long beard, yeah. Looks like a rabbi. I remember when he wasn't an old guy.

Oh, really? He's like a little younger than me. I don't think I'm a Minnesota old guy. No, but like there were some guys like I'm a big, I like Mike Wilmont. Yeah, Mike Wilmont's great. And you know, like that generation of guys who are a little older than me, some of those Canadians were kind of interesting. There's another guy, I can never remember his name, but he had very long hair.

And, you know, I think, is it, he just, and he was- Not Lachlan Patterson? No, he was like an older, he's like, he's probably my age, probably 50s, 60s, but he had very long hair and he kind of had a like- Maybe Tim Nutt?

Tim Nutt. Yeah, Tim Nutt's so good. The other big one that I'm obsessed with is Erica Sigurdsson, also a phenomenal comic. Yeah. Yeah. Like Tim Nutt, like I remember seeing him and you'd go up to Canada and be like, these guys just stay here? Yeah, I am always pushing for people to go to the States. And there's a real attitude that you're like a deserter if you become a touring headliner and then you go to the States. Yeah.

But I'm not doing any less Canada dates. Like, you can still do the four cities that you always go to. Just the rest of your weekends also are booked with American cities. Do you have a big following up there? Bigger than here, but not big. So you can just jump back and forth between which politics you talk about? Yes, yes. I'm a real chameleon. Happy to do, happy to be pro-Trump. We're just trying to have a good night. Just trying to keep everybody happy.

No, but I mean, like, you know, you probably have a specific, you know, 10 minutes or 15 minutes about Canadian politics. Yeah, I have different. I do have some different chunks back and forth, but I do like explaining Canadian stuff to Americans. Yeah. And then that material obviously works in Canada, too, because Canada likes to hear about themselves. And how did you, wait, so you date a comic? Yeah, I date a comic. Mase Galoni. Oh.

I don't know that guy. He's great. He's from Canada, too. We moved to the States at the same time. Oh, Canadian comic. How's he doing over here? He's doing great. Yeah? Yeah, he's in Seattle right now for gigs. Yeah? Where's he playing? The Hereafter. Oh, I don't know what that is.

It's good. Do you take them out and have them open for you? Absolutely. Absolutely, I do. And then I really like to be like, by the way, the opening comedian is my boyfriend, if you're wondering how he got booked on this show. And then all the sex talk, they can now put a face to it. It's great. Yeah, there's a lot inside me. Well, there's been often times that I've opened for him, too. And then whoever goes second gets to really fact check the other person. Oh, have you had issues?

No, no, we're very compatible. Well, it's nice when you're both comics, because over my life, you know, I've done jokes about sex, and I've had girlfriends or wives be like, you know, that one's a little...

Oh, really? Really? Not a lot. No, but because it happens so rarely, do you just say, okay, no worries, and then you don't do that anymore, or do you fight it? Depends. Sometimes I'll just, you know, I'll do the joke and I'll tell the audience, you can't say anything about that joke. You can't tell anybody I did that. Nobody DM my wife or girlfriend. Right.

It's not going to be well-received. This stays in this room. Yeah, I've definitely done that. That's so funny. That's so funny. No, I feel very lucky to have him. We have never had any kind of problems like that. The only time we had an issue was I had a joke about getting cheated on that was about my ex.

that I was still doing in the present tense. You know, you get into the rhythm of a joke and it's hard to change it. And it also feels less interesting to talk about something that's like in the past. But now, did you add like an addendum to it? Yes. Well, yeah. You do the joke. I do the joke and I say, that was my old boyfriend because he was concerned that people thought it was him. And he's coming on after you. Yeah. Yeah. So he doesn't want to get tomatoed. So they don't understand that there's no tension. Yes. How are they just able to deal with that? Yeah.

So now what's with the writing gigs?

Writing gigs, it's good. I'm the head monologue writer for Taylor Tomlinson's show. Oh. Who did I work with over there? I like that guy. Is it Asa? Not Asa. Ismael. Ismael. Yeah. He just left the writer's room because he's working on a new show now. What's his name? Whole name? Ismael Lutfi. Because I'd seen him once or twice at a comedy store, but when I did my appearance on there, I told Taylor to put me on again. She didn't seem to believe that I really wanted to, I don't think.

Oh, come back anytime. I'm not in the booking department, but I'll sneak you onto the lot. We can get you on. No, I mean, I like doing it. I like that she uses all generations of comics. Yeah, we have actors. See, Mandy Moore did our show. Did she? I think I saw that. Yeah, pretty cool. Isn't she shiny? She's so shiny. Right? Yeah, really special. So, as a monologue writer, though, because I...

It's weird because, like, I know a lot of these guys who write these jokes. So you're writing, what, like 20 jokes a day? 30? Yeah. Based on news? Because it's a monologue. They also, they don't love when I talk about the show.

like behind the scenes stuff publicly. They asked, I did it one time and they asked me nicely to not. So I'll... I'm just talking generally speaking as a monologue writer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Your job is to generate jokes for her monologue. Yes, yes, totally. Based on, you know, however she talks and what she likes to talk about and whatever...

kind of things are happening in social media or news or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. It's, yeah, it's a lot of jokes per day and it's really been quite confidence building for me because it's, it's shown me how much writing I could, am capable of every day. Well, that was my question. Is that like, cause I used to see monologue writers and then you have your own act. Yeah. Which like a lot of times when you're performing standup, you're working out stuff that becomes a half hour, it becomes an hour. Yeah. And you're used to churning out

you know, 20, 30 jokes a day. Yeah. Half of, you know, most of which don't get used. But does that, it doesn't seem like you can do that with your regular standup.

No. Yeah. Isn't that weird? No, I think I think you're you're less precious with it, too. Like stand up is so so about boiling stuff down and refining it and adding a new pause and finding a new in. And you're just you're so precious with it. Yeah. So definitely with with a strict deadline, you just end up end up using whatever you got. Yeah.

Right. And you're also writing for someone else's point of view. Yeah. So it's definitely never an issue of like, oh, I want to keep this for myself. Yeah. Yeah. And how do your folks feel about your success or your life? I think they're pleased. Yeah? I heard nothing too bad. Were they supportive all the way through? Yep. Yeah? Very supportive. And your dad likes your act? Yep. Both my parents like my act. Yeah.

My dad's an edgy guy. He's a punk rocker, loves Carlin. He's into it. Oh, yeah? Yeah. So he likes when you take it to the edge? Yeah, loves the edgy joke. Yeah. Absolutely. So what are you thinking now that you're at WME? What's the big goal?

Well, I've never put out an album. I've put out an album and I had a half hour in Canada a couple years ago, but I haven't done an hour special yet. So I'm working on that. Yeah. How would you do it? Would you do it YouTube or you want to get... I'm happy to do it YouTube if that's...

my best option? How's your YouTube channel? Pretty good? No, I do not post on YouTube at all. Are you active on YouTube? Do you do your own hosting? Do you have a social media person? No, I'm just, I have a, yeah, Instagram and TikTok and like I have people just posting old clips and stuff. Sometimes I'll

Do a new one. I just, I really don't want to have to care. And I think I'm actually getting to the age where I might not have to. I don't think you have to care. I think skip it. I mean, it's a fucking nightmare. It's a nightmare. It's bad for stand-up. Like, clip, clip. It's good in the way that you can grow your audience in a way that... Have you found that it's made a difference for you? Yeah, yeah. I have lots of followers on Instagram from posting clips, but...

That's from taping long sets and having years of jokes that were ready to post. So you're not doing crowd work clips? I'm not really a crowd work guy. No? Are you? I can do it. Do you like to do it? It's just something you have to do sometimes to manage a situation. I'll interact with people if there's an ordeal happening in the room, of course. But yeah, I'm not asking where you're from, what do you do? Yeah, so why do you think it's bad for stand-up?

I think that a lot of comics are writing jokes with clips in mind. Right. And so keeping it really short. Right. Having like the hook really clear at the beginning of the joke. Yeah. Just things that I don't think are valuable to long form stand up. And I think part of the beauty of stand up is it's so long. Yeah. If you do that. And you have so much time in your hour to lay out. Yeah. Even my guy when he clips up stuff.

tighten things up bits to put on clips. I'm like, ah, it's like, you know, the tightness is really, it's the opposite of what I like about standup. Like I like the, I like the creating a real texture and vibe in the room and, you know, building some goodwill. And then that's when you get to play around a little. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, but do you like, do you think it's ruining it?

I think it's bad for new comics. I think it's bad for comics that are starting and have the DNA of Clip. Because that's the only way they think. Yeah, yeah. But obviously it's fine for stand-ups that already are established. So it's creating this weird Clip culture. And then, like, also it doesn't seem...

And, like, I never know if I'm an old guy, but it seems like you, I am. But, I mean, that there is a building process. And a lot of these young comics, they're just dumping shit out in their first year. Yeah, yeah. They get a clip of something and then they move on to the next joke where you can't really marinate. You can't really. I wonder how they do, generally speaking, you know. In longer sets? Yeah. I'm always curious about that, too. And that's one thing about L.A. is, like, we all go around town and we see each other do short sets. Yeah. And nobody knows.

Yeah.

It's so nice. Up and down. It's a full arc. Many arcs. I don't know what I'm doing. It's just funny when you start working on material, you get an hour because you get more than that. That's the best possible thing is you got to trim it down.

But like I was nervous because I'd been doing acting jobs and I was in Vancouver. I couldn't do a lot of stand up. And my hour that I was running before I took the jobs was kind of on the shelf for a while. So literally, I felt a strange, you know, shaken confidence. And like, you know, at a certain point, like I've been doing this, what, 40 years now?

You kind of like think like, well, what the fuck is that about? Yeah. It takes a couple weeks of not doing stand up to really feel like I have no idea how this is going to go. Yeah. You got to keep that like that relationship with an audience in place. Yeah. Yeah. Because it takes a real comfortability on stage to do what you need to do to try the new stuff to give it a chance. Yeah. It came right back. Yeah. Because I was in crisis. Yeah. Yeah.

So when I got up there on Friday, I just talked about evacuating. Oh, that was your first set back. Well, it was... I hadn't done like an hour at a theater in a while. Probably since...

I've done some Largo stuff, but not since, like, I did the Vogue in Vancouver. I opened for you at Largo. Yeah. Working stuff out. Yeah. And then I just start to lose everything because I don't listen to my fucking tapes. But you record everything, obviously. No, me too. I record everything and then. Yeah. But do you do, like, most of the stuff happens in real time. Yeah. And what sticks is just stuff that I remember or that I'm kind of passionate about. But I think I've lost a lot of stuff. I should go back over it.

No, I feel the same way. Obviously, the stuff that really stands out or something gets a huge laugh or it's a better way to get into something, that'll stick with you. And that's kind of good because it's like ends up being just the most valuable things that you change that you remember. But of course, I'm sure there's so many. Like I do. Have you ever been in New York, a New York comic? Like I've never lived in New York. Yes. I think that New York comics are.

they finish stuff so much faster because of how many sets they do in a night. They don't have to listen back to their sets because they did the set 20 minutes ago. And so I think doing the six or seven sets in a night actually does, it does that. It does what we could do if we sat down and we listened to the set back, but you lose the momentum and the adrenaline and the excitement. Yeah, there's just these little bits and pieces, these little moments that I think I just lose.

How's your act now, right now? I like my act. I have some filler chunks that are... What do you got, like an hour? Yeah, I do over an hour, but it's... I have... Some of it I really hate that I really consider to be filler material that I would love to replace before I record something. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Like why? Because it's just old? Or you just... It's easy? It just doesn't feel good in my mouth. I mean...

I know I have a bit that I know can't lose and then I get bored with them. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the only time I feel down about stand up is if I haven't done new stuff. That's the other thing. That was part of what was compounding the insecurity. Yeah. Is that like if you're not going on stage constantly and stepping out out there and doing it?

But that was what was good about Friday because I just riffed the first half hour. Oh, fun. And like, you know... Well, you're a yapper as well. I'm a yapper. You love to yap. Yeah. Aren't you? Yeah. But it's a unique... It's not derogatory. No, it's unique. I mean, like either you're a yapper or you're a joker. And I'm not...

And I'm like, you know, every time somehow or another I happen upon a very kind of standard joke structure joke, I get bored with it immediately. You had a really good one that when I was opening for you at Largo, you had a joke about the cat on the expensive speaker. Oh, yeah, yeah, that was good. Something like that that was said at Punchline that you were annoyed that you had a real cat.

Real one-liner, but it was great. I remember that one. Have I done that on a special yet? Do I need to... That's the one where you pull a cat off an expensive speaker and you're kind of feeling the weight like you're going to throw it. That one. But then you just drop it real hard and it's like, yeah, go fuck yourself. Yeah, the cat jokes, people love them. I got a new cat joke that just kills harder than anything. And it's such a simple...

It's almost annoying. And it makes me be like... It makes me think like, why can't I just do easier shit? I feel the same way. So I feel like all my sex jokes are my kind of sprinkled in. Everybody likes them. Keep the mood good. You know, I think that I have...

And I've had the same thought where I'm like, why can't I just do those? Because everybody would be so happy. Nobody would leave with weird feelings. Nobody would feel conflicted about me because we're not aligned on something. Right. But I choose every single time to not do it. I choose intentionally to do jokes that make some people not like me as much. Yeah, I have always been that way where you get them and then you push. I used to do a joke about that.

About how what I like to do with audiences is like, you know, pull you in and push you away and then pull you in and push you away. It's a little dynamic. I call dad. And I'll throw that in there. It's a little crowdy. That's like a little line that I use. But no, I do that, too. Yeah. What is what is the mental illness associated with that? Is it like is it that you don't really like me unless I've upset you?

At some point and then gotten you back because it's like the get back is the good feeling is when you when you sort of you could feel something wasn't well. Well, but sometimes those things are, you know, they're challenging. It's like you said about, you know, the freedom of thought and speech with stand up is that, you know, you know, you're taking a risk and you know that some jokes that you're doing are specifically offensive.

You know they're going to challenge the audience. And there's no other reason to do it. It's to see if you can get away with it. Yeah. But why risk their...

affection for you. Yeah. And it's not lack of valuing the affection. I really need it, if anything. And so that's why it's so weird. Because it would be one thing if I was some like, yeah, I don't care if they like me or not. I came and I said what I have to say. But I don't feel like that. I really want people to like me and I want people to connect with me. But I still want moments in my act where I'm like,

It's people don't like me right now. I just I don't know if I believe the love. You know, I don't know if I was ever gunning for the love. I think I was gunning for my own space. Yeah. Just to be seen. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that, you know, over time, when I start to know my audience, I start to resent them a little. I'm sort of like, are you like me now?

How about now? I've changed for the worse. You've seen the real me. Now what are you going to do? I think it's a great thing. No, it's an interesting attitude to have. Well, I mean, I don't know how else to identify it. Usually when the jokes are off-putting, I'm trying to work something out. Do you know what I mean? Of course. There's always a goal. It's not just to be upsetting. Yeah. The other night I tried to...

You know, talk about, you know, the nature of dehumanization and, you know, where we're at politically in terms of entertainment. And I tried to use it as an example of what's possible even in the last decade.

Mm-hmm.

That's crazy. That's a crazy premise. That's so funny. That's crazy that you said that to people. But I do. I know what you're doing. Like, I do get what you mean. The point is, is like, you know, this isn't that far removed. This was like, you know, what are we doing today? Well, there's going to be. Well, even even on a very small degree, it's like we are gathering to watch humans suffer. That's what reality television is. You're watching these people cry and get in fights with each other and lose their partners.

That's even a better – that's another way to do it. You know, like there's this reality show of just them going into, you know, illegal immigrants' homes and putting them on, you know, in vans. Yeah, I mean, the show Cops. I guess that's sort of Cops. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but it's true that we do – I mean, the movies that we like have – they're always –

murdering women and like we do we do gather to watch horrific things so it was all it was all put in place and it is a big part of human nature too because I learned I was learning that like homo sapiens the you know the genre of human that we are yeah

didn't win out over the other similar species because it was smarter. They won because they were more violent. Yeah. And so we still have that in us. Like the reason that we are the prevailing species on earth is because we were the most violent and, you know, averaging out smart species. But we're, we're, we're, we're dumb in that now that a lot of people want that violence enabled violence.

by a leader that will unleash them. Yeah. Okay. I think we've solved it. Good for us. What a nice way to come to an end. Yeah. We solved society. Good talking to you. Thank you. Bye. There you go. There you go. That was Sophie Buttle. Great, right? Sweet. Funny.

but got a bit of an edge to her. Yeah. You can get her tour dates at sophiebuttlecomedy.com or on her Instagram page. Hang out for a second, folks.

Hey, for full Marin listeners, we've got another collection of outtakes from recent episodes of WTF. We posted those on Tuesday, just like we do every month. Everything is so fragmented. Everything is so divided. Who are you playing to? What difference does it make? What do you, if you, who are you, if you're not trying to, to do crowd work videos and I'm not complaining, look, man, I am not begrudging, you know, any comic really. I mean, I think what I think it's old school stuff.

That, you know, crowd work is a tool one uses to manage a situation. It's something you should have in the quiver. Is that what it's called? In the toolbox so you can deal. But it shouldn't be your whole point of view. It shouldn't be your whole style. But who am I to say? Shouldn't should. For me, it's not. Got into an argument with some guy over this. It's just the kind of, hey, man, everyone's people level playing field argument. It's just another form. But, you know, there has to be criterion through which we judge things.

And maybe I'm an idiot for thinking that stand-up isn't necessarily always about laughs. God knows it's kept me sort of locked in as this weird boutique comic. I have my lane, you know, but it's not a lane that's backed up because of arena traffic. But whatever, whatever. I just can't. I mean, the way I look at crowd work comedy specifically, especially in the marketplace we're in, it's just sort of like,

Personal one-on-one customer engagement to maximize your job performance in hopes that you can be employee of the hour on the Internet and then get up and do it again. Who wants to be employee of the hour?

of the hour. To get our monthly collection of outtakes and every other bonus episode, sign up for the full Marin. Just go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF Plus. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast. Here we go. Here's some guitar with the three chords that I enjoy. Fuck it. ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

Boomer lives. Monkey and Lafonda. Cat angels everywhere.