Answering Your Top Housing Questions
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If you've ever felt like owning a home is impossible, this episode is for you. We hear you, we see you, and we're here for you. I mean, honestly, the difference between a 15 and a 30, it's unbelievable. Like, hundreds of thousands of dollars you're saving. There's this vibe of like, you're wasting money on rent. Why are you still renting? I'm Rachel Cruz. I'm George Camel. And this is Smart Money Happy Hour. This is a mocktail our children will be talking about. Wow. Delicious.

Well, this is the show where two friends who have new money experts talk about what you're talking about. So everything from pop culture, current events, and money. But before we get to the content, Rachel, let's talk about what we're sipping on. This is a midnight tart cherry mocktail. Ah, aka the sleepy girl drink, right? Is that a thing? Because the magnesium, there's something in it that can help you go to sleep. You can add magnesium to it.

It's the tart cherry juice that is known to help with sleep. There we go. I'm here for you. We will talk about that, though, at the end of this episode. We'll give you the rating and reveal the cost per glass at the end of the episode, so stick around for that. Yes. All right, George.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, only 37% of Americans have lived in their homes for more than 10 years. But recent data also found that more than a third of homeowners plan to stay in their current home forever. Can I ask where you fall into that as the Cruz family? How often have you guys moved? Have you ever stayed in a home for 10 years? We've moved, this will be our third. So we were in a condo when we got married.

moved to a home. We were there for 10 years and then we've moved to the home we're in. We've been there for five years and we will be there. So we say, life happens. For the foreseeable future. Yeah, until the kids get out of high school or maybe on. So Charles is five. So I think we'll be there for another 13, 13 years. Wow. We're very happy.

It's great. We're good. And then maybe something different, but I don't see it. I want to always be in a neighborhood. Well, Rachel today does. Versus like on the fat of the land. Listen, I love it. We had a party like this weekend and we were just like texting like,

Eight neighbors and everyone comes and brings food and kids are playing. I'm like, I just... You're a social person. Love it. And when all the kids ride their bikes to school, it makes me cry. That is really sweet. But so I want to be with people. Yes. I don't have a craving to like be on 30 acres by myself. But Winston... Winston would be there. He'd be fine not seeing another human being. He's fine just seeing creatures. No humans for...

Weeks, months on end? Possibly. How about you? How are you and Whitney? We have moved every three years on the dot. So we're every three years. Every three? That's a lot, George. It's a lot. Trust me, I know. As a guy who hates doing things, I hate moving. And you're about to move again. Hopefully this will be the last one. Last one for at least until Mia is like, you know, an older lady. Yes.

What do you call them? What has caused the moves for you guys? Just sort of looking to the future and going like... Every three years? Yeah. Looking to the future. Stop. What do you mean though? Like location, size? Like give me a reason. Location and size and going like, hey, we want to grow our family. We want to have family that comes into town because no one's local. So anytime they come into town, it's like...

It's hard. It's like we can't breathe. Someone's sleeping on an air mattress, you know. And so it's just nice to have more space and to know that we're okay to kind of expand. Totally. Like a fish tank, you know? Yes. So has the primary move for you guys been space? Yes.

Each time? Space and like design and aesthetic. And, you know, my wife is basically a secret interior designer. She's really into it. And you're artsy, George. And I, yeah, I like it. And you're particular. I am particular. Do you know anything about George Campbell? No, I am the worst. And so in that regard, I do like my, my home is everything to me. Like I, if I could not leave home, I would be happy. The fact that I'm here with you, nightmare. Yeah.

I'm kidding. I'm kidding. The fact that I'm at work outside of home. Yeah, but if I'm at home, I have no desire to be like, I'd love to go somewhere. I'm fine to be at home because I love the space I've created. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's fair. So that's what I want for everyone listening today. Yeah, that's fair. Do you ever see those memes? It's usually millennials making a joke about the fact that a two-bed, one-bath condo they barely bought in 2019 will now be their forever home because interest rates skyrocketed.

Yes, they panic. So they have a 3% rate and like, well, I can't take on a 7% rate. I'll stay here. I thought this was my kind of step up home. And now it's the forever home. Yeah, they panic in that way, for sure. Which when you run the numbers, yeah, it can feel a little dicey. But also the housing market, there's a lot of conversations around it. And we've never really...

dissected the housing market on this show. No. Because we try to keep it fun, y'all. You know, it's the happy hour. It's like, let's talk about fun stuff. And housing market doesn't sound fun. When does that come up at happy hour with your friends? Yeah, the bell doesn't ring. Ding, ding. Interest rates are at a record high of 7% in the last 10. We are so excited about that on our happy hour chat. But it's an important conversation to be had. And it's one that's very closely tied to

to your money. So I feel like we need to have it, George. If you're going to have it, have it over happy hour with a mocktail. We're going to do it and we're going to make it fun. I guarantee you that. So here's the thing. If the housing market feels impossible right now, you're not crazy and you're not alone. So let me just give you this pep talk right now. It's okay to rent. It's okay to feel frustrated with the fact that housing prices have skyrocketed and you've been left on the sidelines wondering, will I ever own a house?

So let us encourage you that we believe it's possible for you. We're going to show you a practical, real way to get there. Yes. And it's not just a pipe dream. Yeah, and we're going to take this episode and answer the top money questions we get on Ramsey Show because that's the caller-driven show that we also host together. And a lot of questions about housing. So we're going to kind of just take those top topics that we hear questions. We're going to dive right in. It's going to be fun. All right. The first one, are you ready? Yeah. The first one is, what's so bad about renting? Yeah.

Oh, so they've heard this from, I feel like it's mostly parents. I don't know, societally. Yeah. There's this vibe of like, you're wasting money on rent. Why are you still renting? You know, you should be buying a house. Yeah, renting has a bad connotation to some people. And to be fair to the younger generations, the boomers are sometimes, and Gen X, sometimes a little out of touch when it comes to the realities of housing. Because they go, well, interest rates are historically low. And I'm like, sure, why?

But housing costs, the actual price of that home has skyrocketed four, five, six times what it was before.

when you were young and able to buy a house. And so there's a real mathematical equation here to be solved. And that's why I say it's okay if you rent for longer than you would have liked. That's right. Yeah, it is not a bad thing. Honestly, the whole idea of like it's throwing money away, I know it can feel like that, right? You're just, you're paying a good amount of money. It's not going to anything. For someone else to pay off their mortgage and build wealth. Yeah, it's not going to equity. Like I get, I understand that emotion. That makes total sense. But also you have to realize that homeownership

Like it adds a whole other level of expenses that you're not having to deal with. And so if it's buying time for you to save, all day. All day. Especially when you're young, you're newlywed. Like this happened with my wife and I. We rented an apartment until we were able to buy. And it was so nice to be able to just like send a text or fill out a form to have someone come and fix the toilet when it was broken. Yeah.

while we figured out how to be newlyweds. You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, what toilet issue could you not fix, George? I don't know. I don't remember. Was the toilet running? No, I don't think it was. I think it was the actual toilet itself was not like in place well. Yeah, that needs to be fixed.

Yeah. It was nothing major in an apartment, but it was just nice to have all the things dealt with for you. Totally. You're not worrying about HOA and property taxes and homeowners insurance. Honestly, and stuff's just breaking. Like half of our roof came off, basically. Not half, but like a portion of it during a storm. We had like a really bad windstorm. Oh, no.

And yeah, you have to get insurance, you know, insurance claims, all of this. It's like replace the whole roof, that. Garage doors messed up and so we had to do that. I mean, like, there's just, it feels- Maybe because you hit it. We don't know what happened. I did hit it, but it wasn't because of that. I hit it years ago. Don't you-

But that was an issue. I don't know. It's just things always just keep, they just keep coming up. Yeah, my first townhome, the HVAC went out, and I was like, cool. I don't know, a thousand bucks to get this thing. Nope, it was $6,000 to get a new HVAC. I know, I know. And like I had an ice dam. Have you ever heard of this? Didn't know what an ice dam was until water's pouring out of my bedroom ceiling. But from the condensation, like it all built up? After snow and ice, apparently it can just start leaking through your ceiling. No.

Yeah, Google Ice Dam, D-A-M, family-friendly show. But that was a nightmare to have to deal with and get fixed and pay for and deal with insurance. Renting is not bad. Yes, it's buying patience. But also, we get callers that are like, hey, should I just rent forever? Like, why own a home? But it is a part of your budget that is going to continually go up. And it's usually the most expensive line item in the budget. So eventually, owning a home...

paying it off so you don't have that expense going into retirement, that's ideal. That's huge. To get rid of that largest fixed expense in your budget is a game changer. So getting your house paid off is part of the Ramsey plan. All right, George, next one. When should I buy? Ooh, when you're financially ready? Yeah, and how do we know that?

Debt-free, fully funded emergency fund, and you have a decent down payment. Now, we're okay with 5% to 10% down now, but the key is to get that payment to be a quarter of your take-home pay on a 15-year conventional fixed rate.

Get a lot of flack for that, understandably. Because they go, Rachel, are you serious? Have you seen what the... I'll never be able to do that. We're not like, it's not a sin to get a 30-year mortgage. We just can do math and go like, listen, I know it's instead of two grand, it's going to be $2,700 on a 15-year, but you're saving hundreds of thousands in interest. So much on interest. With these crazy interest rates. Yeah. I mean, honestly, the difference between a 15 and a 30, it's unbelievable. Like hundreds of thousands of dollars you're saving. Yeah.

And yeah, and I know we get calls a lot on the Ramsey show and people kind of bump up that mortgage beyond what we suggest and they go like 40%. 50%, 60%. Oh yeah, we get those. But it's like they just go right up to that edge mark where it's a little stressful, but it's okay. And then something happens. And then... A job loss, a health scare. One person wants to stay at home? Yeah, they have a baby and they're like, my wife doesn't want to go back to work, but we can't afford that. I mean,

stuff just happens. So when you just live more conservatively, it just gives you peace and margin to make other decisions in your life that you want to make. And so maybe it's not a bigger house. It may not be exactly in the right location. Maybe you're 20 minutes further than you want to be. But like,

It gives you more peace in your overall life. And it's what we want for you. So it's worth that. If you have a 27% mortgage of your take-home pay, we're not angry at you. It's just a parameter. It's just like this is the healthiest way to go so you have margin to accomplish all of your other financial goals. That's right. All right, next. Should I wait for the housing bubble to burst?

Yikes. You're going to be waiting a long time. I don't hear this one as much. I heard it a lot. It's probably last year. This time last year, 18 months ago. And during the pandemic, there was a lot of talk about it's going to explode and I'm going to wait on the sidelines. It was funny because it was like 2020. Everything was like, oh my gosh, COVID, COVID, COVID, 2021. People were like, we're moving.

We're moving. We're moving. I mean, 21, 22 was insane. Like everything just like... Prices skyrocketed. Shot up and everyone was freaked out. And then the interest rates starting climbing up and up. And people were freaking out. And for good reason, right? It feels like, oh my gosh, everything is so inflated. These houses are so expensive. They're not worth what people are paying. So it's creating this artificial bubble is what everyone thought. And it's going to pop...

Let me wait and be on the sidelines for two or three years. It'll pop. And then it stayed there. Everyone's going to go into foreclosure and then I can buy a great deal. And it has stayed. And the reason it has stayed is back to like the number of buyers. Supply and demand. Yes, versus houses on the market. And there is still, there are a lot of houses on the market, but there are still more buyers than houses.

There's still a shortage of houses thanks to a lot of factors. Number one, people don't want to let go of their amazing rate they have. So they're staying put. So they go, I guess we'll stay put. Then on top of that, we haven't caught up on the supply of homes because of the pandemic and lumber and all these shortages. Builders can't build fast enough. And so there's still a shortage of homes, which is going to keep prices up. So if you're hoping on the sidelines, holding your breath for home prices to just shoot down, you're going to die. Right.

if you keep holding your breath. And there were some markets, Austin, Texas, like a couple that kind of re- Balanced. Yeah, they rebalanced. They went down a little bit, but it was not like- It wasn't a crash. Yeah, everyone thought it was going to be like 08 again. If you remember 08, everyone was expecting that again. Well, it was a different issue there with subprime lending. There was a lot of different issues that we're experiencing now. So if you're waiting on the sidelines, do not wait. That's why we tell people, buy when you're financially ready. Don't wait for some magic housing market to exist. It will not happen. All right, George, ready for the next one?

Are HELOCs a good idea? Oh, boy. Home equity lines of credit. This is basically using your home equity like a credit card. It's a line of credit attached to your home, and it's moving you backwards financially and puts your home at risk with a variable interest rate. So this is a very dangerous game to play. And if we're going to be honest, as we take calls on The Ramsey Show, most people are taking out HELOCs

to renovate the kitchen. Their house, I know, to renovate. You know what I mean? They're not doing, they're not like, well, I did it to pay off my debt. Even then we'd say terrible idea. Yeah. But most people are doing this for sort of vanity purposes. And if you can't do it with cash, just wait to do it until you can cash flow it. Yes. Because usually when you're using debt, especially for renovation type issues, you're going to go beyond what you'd normally do with cash. That's true. And you go nicer than you would have. I mean, it just, it ends up snowballing. Yes, into it. And you're like, listen,

And HELOCs are so popular now because everyone gained all this equity in their home in the last few years. And so they're going, hey, we don't have the money, but we could just take out a HELOC against our house. And it's marketed so heavily from lenders and banks going, hey, your home went up in value. We see that. What if we just told you you can take 200 grand out? Terrible idea. Please don't do this. It's like a carrot that seems great.

And also, Kara, that seems great is just having your information online, George. We fill it out willy-nilly these days. It is just normal. Normalize putting your info out into the world and into the public and onto the internet. And what happens is companies end up selling your data to data brokers, and then they end up selling or trading your data and making money, which we do not like. So, Delete Me is a subscription that they actually go in and remove your personal data from all of these data broker websites online.

And it's phenomenal because it takes your information out. So scammers, spammers, like all of that. The robo emails and texts and calls, it's exhausting. It is. So Delete Me goes in and removes your data and it's a beautiful thing. So thank you, Delete Me, because we use it and we love it. They've removed my info from hundreds of data broker sites and they've saved me 77 hours of time. It would have taken me myself to do all of that. So it's totally worth it for the peace of mind and the time savings.

And if you want to check them out, they're giving our listeners a sweet discount, 20% off if you go to joindelete.me.com slash smartmoney. So super affordable. Click the link in the show notes if you want to learn more and get started. All right, George, how about house hopping? Is it smart to house hop like people job hop? Oh, because this is a trend with jobs.

Just like stay at a job a year or two and then jump to the next one and get a promotion. Because you get promotion, promotion, promotion, promotion. You end up making more if you just keep job hopping is the idea. I don't think that's the same in the house world. I don't think it is either. Because you're paying pretty intense fees every time you move between closing costs, the realtor, you know. Yeah, you're kind of a house hopper.

Can I say that? I have been accidentally because we've moved every three years since we've been married, but it's worked out in our favor. Yeah. In this random instance because we, number one, that gap from like 2019 to 2022, some of the most insane house appreciation in history. Yeah, I don't know.

Like the house that we bought was not worth what we paid for it on paper. And so I hope that three years later we can sell what we got for it. And so like there's a risk in there, but I would not recommend house hopping because of all the realtor fees, the closing costs. Yes. You have to stay long enough to quote ROI on that purchase. For sure, yeah. To cover all of the fees plus profit takes a while. And so that's why we recommend...

Like buying a home is a long-term purchase, five years plus. Now, can you buy and sell within that timeframe? Sure. And it can work out. Yeah, but don't let that be your housing strategy. Yes. You will lose money eventually because like you're saying, it's an anomaly, this time period that we're in. And if you did that a lot during this time period, you're probably gonna make some money doing it. But that's not gonna be like that forever. Now-

the price of our houses is slowly going up. It's more stable. It's going up, but it's very slow. It's not like it was in the past few years. And on the other side, I don't want people to sit on the sidelines for 15 years trying to get their dream home. Wait, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get your foot in the door and get that townhome or condo or reasonable single family in an area further out. Like make some compromises to get in the real estate market and then you can upgrade later. Yep, I love it. Okay, we covered this a little bit. We'll hit these two really quick. How much should my mortgage be in comparison to my income? Yeah.

So we say 25% of your take-home pay. So a quarter of it is going to housing. And then that means you have 75% left of your income to save...

Pay for your life, your necessities. Invest. Invest. Yeah, I mean, all of it. Vacations. Again, we will always say it is a conservative outlook when it comes to housing. I mean, because a lot of people don't do 25%. It is beyond that for sure. But again, what we have found, the more margin you have, the more choices you have with your money. And don't let your house, even though it is a great investment, like being a homeowner is a goal. Like you want to eventually in your life. That should be a goal for everyone. But it should not be the only thing your money goes towards. So like...

get a smaller home, again, live further out than where you want to be to have the ability to go do more of what you want to do with your income. Yes. And can I also say that 25% parameter, that is after-tax income before other deductions like...

healthcare or your 401k investment. So you can manually do the math, but it should help your numbers out. Because a lot of people go, Rachel, oh my gosh, what ends up in my bank account? Oh my gosh, I can't do that. Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, remove out the healthcare premium, remove out the 15% to the 401k, and that will help you go, okay, it's 25% of after-tax income, but before other deductions. Yes, so good. What mortgage is best?

You're going to say a balloon mortgage, aren't you, George? Oh, I love a balloon. Love a balloon. Me and my daughter love balloon. Love an arm. There's a lot of terrible mortgage options out there. And so the one that we recommend as the best, the creme de la creme, is the 15-year fixed rate conventional mortgage. And again...

If you have a 30-year mortgage, you are still going to go to heaven. We're going to have a great time there. It's not a terrible thing, but we recommend the 15-year because of how much you're going to save in time and in interest. Yes. And it forces you into a plan because a lot of people will take the 30 and just say, I'll pay it like a 15. But again, a 15- Where are y'all at? Where are y'all at? 15 years later, y'all still paying your mortgages. Yeah.

Just assumes, yes, that you are on it, right? And I think that's another great thing is when you can automate certain things in your life to force you into like good habits, do it. Yes. I think it's great, right? And like, it's like if your refrigerator could just automatically have the healthy stuff in there.

You don't have to shop or worry about, oh, what am I doing? It's just in there. It's there. It's great. Like if you can automate things in your life that's better for you, do it. Yeah. We know that we're human and like left to our own devices, we're probably not going to do the healthiest thing for us all the time. No. And so saying you're going to get a 30-year... Vacations call. And here's what they say. Well, Rachel, I want the wiggle room. So I'm going to do a 30-year.

You have an emergency fund. You don't need wiggle room if you do it the Ramsey way. So what we find is the average millionaire in our millionaire study pays off their home in 10.2 years, a decade. And don't worry about the interest rate and the spread. We always say marry the house, date the rate. Because you can always refinance later if rates go down. So don't be as concerned about that. Just get yourself financially ready and just go ahead and get in the market. Yep.

All right. Here's a personal question, George. What's one unexpected challenge with homeownership that you learned the hard way? Where do you start? I mean, of course, you have the maintenance and repairs. That's something that no one warned you about. You have to deal with that. Not only do you have to pay for it, you have to figure out who's the right people to go to in this scenario. And do I file the claim? Do I go out of pocket? Yeah.

Is this person legitimate? Are they well-reviewed? Are they going to upcharge me? Because I don't know the prices of what repair and labor costs. And so there's a lot of research that goes into it that I was not prepared for. On top of property taxes and insurance, that's real. And that number can go up. So even though you have a fixed principal and interest, your taxes and insurance can go up year to year. For sure. How about you? Um...

I think not as much of a challenge because I would have echoed all of that. I think just homeownership is expensive. Like we had to fix windows or fix whatever. I'm like, it costs how? Like it's just, it is crazy how much things cost. So it just feels very expensive. And I feel like on our every dollar budget, we have a home item.

And I just feel like so much gets put into that category. And we end up having to up it a lot of months because it's just like stuff just ends up falling in it. So I don't know. It's expensive. That's what I would say. That's a good word. Okay, if you had one house ick when you bought your first home, what would it be? Oh, there was this like pink shag rug in the other two bedrooms that just...

Like, crushed my soul. So that was the first thing we had to do before move in. Yeah. I was like, we're getting people in here to replace this and put hardwood in. That's good. And we also replaced the pink shag rug in the bonus room with just new rug. That's smart. New carpet. That's good. So those were the things we decided were worth it on top of. We had to paint all the walls in the house. Yes. We didn't realize we kind of bought a fixer-upper, but, like, I guess dogs had destroyed walls. Oh, God.

Oh, gosh. There was like random holes in the wall. It wasn't like scratches. Like I wasn't being OCD. It was bad enough that we had to like just repaint everything. Not good. So that was a big one for us. How about you? Our kitchen was like a tomato red. Like when I say tomato red, like the reddest. The cabinets or what? No, the walls. The walls were tomato red? Tomato red. But it wasn't a big kitchen at all. So it was just basically like the backsplash and like one wall. Okay. And then white cabinets. White cabinets.

But it was... It's aggressive. Something. It was something. I don't know. Not good. Was it the Heinz family that lived before you? I mean, literally. I mean, it was a terrible, terrible rent. Yeah. But again, these are things that can easily be replaced. When we talk about buying a home and looking past features, think about things that you can easily replace. You hate the carpet. You hate the wall color. Yes. Yeah. Easily replaced. 100%. If you hate the floor plan...

that's going to be a much more expensive fix. Sure. Yeah. Knocking down a wall. So just know that going in. Do you know something that's not tomato red? Hit me.

My navy Cozy Earth pajamas. That's science. Y'all, Cozy Earth. It is just the most beautiful, wonderful stuff. No ick there. No. All bougie, no ick. If anything, you're just like, can I have it all? Please, give it to me. From the blankets, the sheets, the pajamas, the joggers, the socks. The blankets. Everything. Mostly the blanket for me. Do you know I gave so many Cozy Earth products for Christmas? You're such a giver. I know. And then one person-

went and bought more because they texted me like, hey, can I get the actual name of what you bought? Because I want to get it in different color. I was like, that's right. Their stuff is amazing. It really is. Love Cozy Earth. It's the best. And they are giving our listeners a steep discount up to 40% off if you go to cozyearth.com slash smartmoney or use the promo code smartmoney at checkout. Let me tell you, no one's been upset. I've never given a Cozy Earth gift and someone's like...

I don't like this. Come on. They're always like, how did he afford this? This is bougie. And so if you want to be bougie frugal, use promo code smartmoney at checkout. All right, Rachel, let's have a little fun, which we haven't had a lot of this episode. Mostly thanks to you. I'm kidding. Unbelievable. Here's what I've got. I've got a list of three home upgrades that could lose you money at resale. You have a list of top three home upgrades that could add value at resale. Okay. This will help those that are currently homeowners decide, is it worth it?

All right, I'm going to do my opinion. Give me your first one. Your honest, real opinion. Yeah. We've never heard that on the show. Love to hear it. Okay, here's the number one that could lose you money at resale. Specific and custom decor. Think a giant wall mural, weird wallpaper, bright paint colors, stained glass windows, niche light fixtures. It can't be so specific to you. Yeah. Because the other person may not want that. 100%. So yeah, for me, it's less like wall because you can like repaint something. But if you had like a...

you know, two skyscrapers and a bridge across them because you wanted to like... Classic house. Yeah. There's a moat out front so you gotta cross a little river. There are some weird houses out there. And that is true. It is hard to sell those.

They're weird like that. So, it's fair. That's a good one. I was going to say something more normal. Like when we moved in, there was a chalkboard wall with like industrial pipes and then like barrels. Yeah, but to me... And it was kind of like a, you know... I hear it, but you can replace that stuff though. No, it was an easy replace. Yeah, to me it's the big... It's like the weird stuff where you walk into a house and you're like, what do they think about this? But it still costs a lot of money to do these things. And then someone's going to go in and go, no, we want a discount because we're going to have to change that. Okay, keep going. Next one. New carpet. New carpet.

So here's the thing with carpet. It doesn't stay clean, goes out of style quickly. Most people want to replace with hardwood or laminate, which is what we did when we moved in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that one I totally get. If you're going to do it, do hardwood. We carpeted the kids' rooms. That's smart. And our playroom. But we did hardwoods everywhere else. Yeah.

But I don't know. There's something cozy about carpet, like in a room sometimes. I don't know. Love a bonus room with carpet. It feels cozy. It does feel cozy. Okay, keep going. I don't know if I agree with that one. Here's a weird one. Eliminating versatility. So knocking down a wall and lessening the number of bedrooms, making all bedrooms have shower stalls instead of leaving a bathtub. So families with young kids, helpful to have a bathtub. That's fair. Turning the garage into a recording studio. Things that are so custom. I would agree with that. I would agree with this. I think that's fair. Okay. Yep. Last one.

Adding a pool. Oh, no. Especially to average and middle-class neighborhoods. Caveat here, apparently. Upkeep is expensive, not worth it to many people, can be a hazard for folks with young kids and pets. You rarely get the money back you put in during resale. I'm going to, yeah. Is that fair? As someone who just built a pool? I know. And we, you know what? It's funny because when we priced out how much it's going to cost and we decided on it. And we did it because we knew, like, we want this for our house. And you're going to be there a long time. You're going to enjoy it. Yeah, absolutely.

But we knew like, yeah, it probably would. If we had to sell our house today, we finished the pool. What we put in versus what we get out probably isn't comparable. So that's fair.

But not everything, can I just say this? Not everything has to be about resale value. George, you're so human. Thank you. So human, so relatable. If you want to do it, do it. Just know that not everything has to have ROI for you to enjoy it in life. Yes, because part of life is just enjoying what you like. That's on growth. I mean, that is true. All right, hit me with some upgrades that are worth the money. All right, neutral decor.

So light paint colors, neutral kitchen, classic light fixtures, all of that. Because I do think if you're someone like me that's not creative, I walk into a place, into a home, and I'm not, I can't think beyond what I see. You see tomato red and you go, ugh. I mean, seriously, yeah, it's very hard for me to like look beyond that. So if you do want to sell your home, having neutral for a majority of the population that's not creative and doesn't like think outside the box, okay.

like me when it comes to decorations. It's going to be an easier sale. So I would agree with that. Strong. Okay, next. Tile or hardwood flooring. Smart. Yeah, very nice. When you walk in, hardwood floors, it's beautiful. Yeah, no one ever walks in and sees like newer hardwood and goes, ugh, put some carpet on that. Disgusting. Totally. It's so true. It's so true. I don't know why, but our parents' generation loved to put carpet over beautiful hardwood. And they loved it.

And now the millennials and Gen Z are trying to rip the carpet up and expose the original hardwood. And that's beautiful. And what a story to tell. What a story. To say this was the original hardwood. It's the same people who rescue their pets. Same energy. I rescued this hardwood. Okay. Relax, bud. Relax.

Just so holy. So holy. That's a good one. Okay, I believe in this one very deeply. Updated bathrooms and kitchens. That is, if you're going to put your money somewhere, put it there. And they become outdated the fastest. And so it's good to have just a nice, clean, simple, neutral kitchen. I love that. And then organization. Organization.

Oh, I didn't think about this one. Yeah. So if you have like easy ways to organize, like a beautiful pantry that you can put bins, like things that are easy to look more aesthetically pleasing. I think it's because it's aspirational. People go, I'd love a laundry room that was actually clean. Yes. A pantry that was organized, a closet that didn't look like a nightmare. Yeah. People want this fresh start when they move. Yeah. So it's inspiring. I believe it.

That's the thing. When you set up a home for staging, you want to go, would that other person go, I can see myself here. I can see myself here. Versus I don't want to see Rachel's life there. I want to see my life there. That's right. Look at you. What a realtor you are. Love your life, not theirs. Unbelievable. Someone should write that book. Unbelievable. Gosh, that's good.

All right, you guys, so the housing market, there's a lot here. I'm glad we covered it because there's a lot. There's a lot to this. There's a lot of emotion. It's a big deal. It's the largest purchase majority of people make in their lifetime. So you want to be wise about it. But I do think there's always a plan towards it and that it's possible. And then when you have it, you pay it off and then you don't have a mortgage, but you still pay property tax. Beautifully said. And here's my final thought.

Drop the thought of a dream home. I think it's unhealthy and it causes us to live in this fantasy world. Yes. There's no such thing as dream home. Even the home that you build from scratch to your own, it's still going to have its issues. Yes. And you won't stay there forever. Wherever you think you're going to stay forever is a lie. We are not grandma and grandpa. We're not living in the Great Depression. We move around. We upgrade houses. We switch towns. We do all kinds of things.

And so I think just letting go of this idea there has to be one home that we're in forever and we love will just free us emotionally and mentally. I like that, George. It's very freeing. That's the first thing she's ever liked that I said. That is very freeing. I like that. So good. All right. Before we spill the tea on our guiltiest charge, tell us about our mocktail. It's actually delicious. This is a midnight tart cherry mocktail, a.k.a. sleepy girl mocktail, because you can add magnesium and make it a real...

I don't know, midnight feels late to be going to bed for anyone. What are you? I'm a 9 p.m.er. In bed by 9, lights out? I'm in bed by 8.30. And like ready for bed? Yeah, sometimes we'll watch something, I'll read...

What a treat. Yeah. What are you? I'm a 9.30 tenner. Okay. If I'm not lights out by 10.30, there's serious issues. Yeah. Do you and Whitney go to bed together? We do. Yeah, yeah. Mostly one of us yells at each other because the phone light is too bright in pitch black. I'm like, go to bed.

Go to bed. I'm like, what are you doing? I can't sleep. You're going to hate yourself in the morning. So it's usually that level of... That's great. That's love. That is love. That is love. So the Midnight Tart Cherry Mocktail costs $1.85 to make. Not bad. It's got tart cherry juice, which is the most expensive ingredient, lime juice and zest,

It's got honey or maple syrup, your choice, vanilla extract and Celtic sea salt, and then some sparkling water to add some zip to it. Yeah, I appreciate that. This is a 10 out of 10 drink for me. I think I'll go 9 out of 10. It's a little tart.

If you don't like tart, why would you drink a tart cherry juice mocktail? I don't know. That's on you. Well, I don't know, but it's sweet and good. Very good. So if you want to check it out, the recipe is in the show notes. Make it at home for the whole family. All right, now it's time for Guilty as Charged. And this is where our producer Kelly gives us a new guilty as charged question every week. And if we're guilty, take a sip. Kelly? What is one bougie home preference that people judge you for? Oh, gosh. I mean, yeah, I'm guilty. Oh, man.

I've been judged. Judgment is a strong word. I can think of one for you. I have two in my head. Oh, wow. Please share both. This is juicy. One was me. One was Winston. But I appreciate both. Rock garden? Okay. No. I judge Winston for the rock garden. I still don't know what he's doing to all these rocks. Get ready. You'll see it. There's boulders in our backyard right now.

Mine was heated bathroom floors in our master bath when we built. Can I tell you any judgment is envy on that one? There's no real judgment. It is the most. And then we step into our shower. It's obviously not heated. And you go from like warm to cold. That's what I could be on, you know? So is there a switch? Is it just one setting? It's just on constantly. Oh, it's constantly on. No way to turn it off. 85 degrees. Wow, that's just so cool.

That is luxury. It's great. We love it. And then Winston's, which I appreciate now, he bought nice garage doors, which we've joked because they have broke, but they're fine now. They're very quiet. Oh, I've heard about these. It's very, very quiet garage doors. And I appreciate it. I don't even know that they're opening. Yeah. Where I grew up with like...

And the whole house kind of shakes, you know what I mean? Well, like our daughter's bedroom is like attached to the garage wall. Oh, yes. And so when the garage closes during nap time, I'm on pins and needles. Yeah, that's tough. That's tough. So I look forward to an ultra quiet garage. But Winston got some nice garage doors. Respect. And I appreciate them. So those were bougie.

Two bougie things. How about you? When we moved in, we did the epoxy garage floor. You know, it's like the speckled... You love that floor, George. I don't know why, but... Heard about that floor. Well, part of it is just like a garage and just like gray with like cracks in it and there's like oil spills. And this one is just...

Perfect. It's super easy to clean. I want to hang out in there, you know? If I ever had a man cave one day. Be like, there, that nice garage. The boys would be like, hey, what's up? That's fair. If I ever have friends one day. Winston and you can hang out in the garages. Quiet garage doors and garage floors. Is that aspirational or is that an in there? Is that a threat or a promise? That's what I want to know. Winston would love to hang with you, George. You're in a poxy family, right? We are. See, I want to live like the Cruzes. I know.

Comparison is the thief of joy, but in this case, it's just joy. All right, that's all for today. That's all. I'm going to stop there.

But it's funny. You know what? I don't care. Here's the thing. This idea of people judging you, it's your house and your life. I'm not like constantly Instagram. I've never Instagrammed my garage floor. No, I've never sat by my garage. So here's the thing. If it makes you happy and you pay cash for it and it doesn't derail your financial goals, I don't give a rip what anyone thinks about it. Good for you, George. That's the energy we need. And that's on growth. That is growth. Good therapy. You're a therapist. Well done. I feel therapized. Thank you. Yeah. So good.

Well, you guys, if you enjoyed this episode, make sure to check out our harmless purchases that will drain your bank account. That is coming up next. And make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an all new episode of Smart Money Happy Hour.