American Cities In CRISES | PIRATE WIRES EP#16 🏴‍☠️
01:10:24 Share

Everybody must, everybody.

And that is where .

meatball comes in the story.

A star is born.

a stars born.

So you're gonna risk.

Incarceration is inspiring. Mom, myself.

for two thousand, five dollars a month, you can access her content on all my fans.

really.

that ones for you. He seems to remember that like this is nominally because this top got acquitted. And she's like, yeah, like this as everyone is like string. The really neat .

is spending .

fill right now on twitter.

Our guys welcome back to the pad. Uh, this week. Notice i'm in a brand new studio.

I told you we're like taking a tour of the world. Um this is the first professional studio or in don't get used to IT. It's back to my bedroom next week, special guest liz wolf with us today. Liz is a staff writer at reason, and is staff staff writer at reason.

I have no idea my title got title at reason.

She's a writer. He is great rider. SHE runs the round up, the reason, round up, friend of mine, how can I talk about your baby? Yes, sir.

conceived of hers shop.

Can I take, how about you the conception of your child?

I think you can tell some of that, but I mean.

hopefully you don't know too much. I don't too many details. I will tell you that he has .

a baby suspicious ly time .

to baby so it's suspicious ly time to heritage um and that's i'm not saying i'm responsible for this child, but i'm responsible for this is child. And I think it's like one of my Prices there were three years become babies.

Actually three was that uh.

I just found out about I don't know I can say IT actually I don't know he's not have been public about IT. But yeah there are there are three this was a little less he was not conceived at herr dicon IT was um he reconnected with his x at her edcon which went to the conception and now alas, they are no longer together but they do have a baby. Um which probably get the actual podcast. So we've got a ton of topics this week.

The very first one I don't know quite what to call IT um were taking a look at philadelphy which is this kind of strAngely not talked about disturbia in amErica we will be talking about crime a lot is the worst in in a lot of regards um when the kind of states passed the criticism that cities like new york conference rents could get, I think because it's just a smaller city that people don't I don't know care as much about, but it's a pretty big deal what's happening there. Sagan is gna walk us through IT. We're going to talk about the G O P debate, which happened last night.

We are gona talk about, uh, probably immigration in the context of that because he was a huge part of that debate. Liz is here to share her tedious libertarian perspective with us, and i'm sure i'll disagree lot and probably agree on things like, for example, dean pressed in who is the millionaire xie of san Frances go sina wrote a great piece about him, were going to break the entire drama surrounding him and ella musk down and we're onna round IT all out with a White pill because amErica has seen the construction of some high speed rail for the first time. And I want to know how long, fortunately, rivers here to tell us he wrote great piece about the miami bright line uh and sort of placed in the context of the total failure that we've seen in california.

This is a of a high speed rail, right? So this is, I mean, that we talk about a lot on this podcast. Something I write about a lot is the inability of IT seems like the inability of amErica to do stuff anymore, you know, to build new infrastructure, to run new trains.

Um this one is a this the bright line to me feels like a cool sort of counter example and um and I wants to get into that. I want to explain why why I was possible in florida. Maybe speculate on on on why it's not possible in california.

Uh, so let's just I think let's just take IT from the top with the the actual decay and bite of the city of brotherly love. I'm started, say sanda lives there. SHE did some some tories of the carnage.

I don't know. I don't call carnage some touring of the disaster area yesterday. I will just let you take that away break break IT out for us what's going on in philadelphia all right.

So I guess the context for what happened a couple days go in philadelphy is that in August um a police officer shot and killed a guy at a traffic stop who had a knife and um so this the district attorney I in phillippa very progressive guy name Larry crossing er brought charges against the police officer who was uh accused of of killing this man and two days ago a judge decided to acquit him of all charges .

and so there .

were protest the hall I quit the cop yeah the guy the guy died um and so they were purchased at city hall um that we're by all accounts pretty peaceful. And a couple hours after the protest dispersed, a bunch of masked mainly teenagers descended on the main shopping artery of philadelphia um and this basically unleashed a night of looting in on wallet street and then also on other retail orders in the city and that is where .

meatball .

oh .

no oh everybody must be everybody .

a star is born.

a stars born and and quickly incarcerated IT seems like but meatball meeting is is the earliest of a woman named A D A blackwell who's twenty one years old she's an instagram influencer who's got almost two thousand followers um I also learned that he is on only fans so for for twenty five dollars a month you can access uh her content .

on only fans .

about five river that .

ones for you.

Twenty five is a little still puts me. I mean.

you're you're even a little here. The math did to fill IT off you.

He is a .

very enterprising woman. He also owns A A bi business, and SHE sells bis for .

fifty dollars .

a pop .

like b baby, no.

like like OK. She's like a, like a bomb baby collector, twenty five doors among only fans like I I you say criminal, I say capital. So I say the sphere america, I don't know.

Yeah well, so anyway, so me ble basically goes out on on tuesday night um SHE drives down to center city and she's live streaming her self on an instagram and um it's like the whole story end up being around like thirty minutes and SHE basically lives dreams herself in citing a ride in center city and in another area of the city um where she's gathering a bunch of teens and she's filming herself the whole time and she's like which stores are we're going to hit first and then leads them to the apple store。

The teens break into the apple store maples, egg them on the entire time. There is like a video that he filmed where there is two security guards holding back the doors to the apple store, and like thirty teens pulling on the doors until they finally get in. And they all start running out with like the new iphones and ipad um SHE films them with the lu leman store like breaking in and stealing one a shit. And then finally.

a little limit is insane. I saw this video. Okay, why? So you're onna risk incarceration for mid market athletica where like I just don't understand like you're like i'm a thug who would like break into a location and still shit but also I want to dress like a yoga mom.

Dropping off the kids of thorns like IT doesn't make sense to meet the idea of wearing the little lemon to like you're yoga class the next day is just an interesting clash of I worlds. I this at a race .

riot now going to do like sitting dog or whatever, like IT this, I mean.

river and super affected by that as an inspiring yoga mona. Sorry, mom myself but no, I one not like sort of like downplayed as well in this at least in how IT works in new york city. I'm not sure how works other places because obviously new york is the only city worth fucking paying attention to um this thing.

But like you know, there's organized primary that essentially lift these goods and then have a pretty sophisticated system for flipping them. So like, are we sure that these people are personally wearing the love in sports bras? Or is there some sort of like process by which they convert .

the syndicate? Hard cat question, which is, is that even I don't believe that IT was a race riot, I don't think that that's true. I think I I think IT was in that was the catalyst.

But it's that's we've seen this in every city in the not every city in the country. We've seen this in chicago. We've seen this conference IT. Now we did see and sometimes about a couple years ago, uh, we seen this in new york um and IT IT seems a lot of the time that is kind of happened. Our social media induced .

like IT was not a race riot. I mean, IT was the .

clips from the night .

basically people happy? And at one point in the video, meatball sort of remembers, he seems to remember that like this is nominally because this cop got acquitted. And she's like, yeah, like, we want justice as everyone's like storing the losing lemon store yeah and and they also like looted a bunch of liquor stores in the city.

That's how he got caught. So this is an important part of the story. Ball has been booked and her mug shot is going viral. Tears were streaming down her face in the mug shot. SHE got caught outside a liquor store. She's like a bottle of hennessy in her hand and she's in the car and the cops pull up on her and they're like, you need to get out of the car. She's been charged with burglary, conspiracy, criminal trust, pass riot, criminal midriff, criminal use of communication facility, which I think means like live streaming harriot yeah recede of stolen proper property and and disorderly conduct.

So do we know the etiology of her nickname, meat ball?

I think IT refers, you know, she's she's heavy, said.

it's not make me her own. This is an thing that's been put on her no.

I think he also owns IT like freeze what free meat is trending and filling right now on twitter and SHE I mean, go around the stand .

is embraced the me about next next .

yeah like everyone I know and silly knows, like all the Young people I don't filly know who he is. And like the free meat ball means something to them so I think SHE SHE embraced the nickname yes.

uh, is reminds me of a couple years ago a during I forget which of the riots IT was, but IT was an actual sort of right, because there was a molotov. And my rule for that is, like, was there a molotov cocktail? E involved? And there was, in this case, IT was these two.

These two like, very like stereotypical, like lulu lemon type, like White girls is my recognition of these events, uh, being interviewed a reporter at one of these riots, and this girl just straight up, casually toast a molotov cocktail into a cop car that was abandoned, liked on fire. And the reporter is reporting and like favorably. I think what we are calling a protest at that point, and he was just like, even he was like, this is, did you just draw balls of cocktail and a coffee AR? Like, that seems crazy.

And then he was arrested, and he was a IT. Was this very surreal, like you realized that he had gotten caught up in this event that was, I think, much bigger than her, and did SHE somehow lost check of, like, I am a person in the society that has rules, and you can like a cop car on fire, especially not in front of cameras, and while talking to a reporter, and expect they're not to be something to to happen. And with me, all that feels like I saw her weirdly, and I hope this doesn't make me sound too soft.

I saw her picture crying. I felt bad for her. I felt like SHE didn't realize what he was doing was real, is what I really felt like. He felt like this really strong disconnect between the the like integram fiction of reality in them, like the consequences of, I was just live streaming crime, and now i'm gonna maybe go to jail. I don't know, what do you guys what do you think about that are being too soft?

She's only twenty one. I mean, it's not an excuse, but she's really, really Young. So there's an argument that, like her brains not fully formed. And yes, SHE made a really stupid decision, a series of very stupid decisions.

I tend slightly, I tend slightly dislike the argument of like, you know, because somebody y's Young and or their brain isn't fully formed, their sort of possibly less culpable or more mercy. Like it's tough because there's a little bit of tension and high look at this because they think to only speaking, you know, extending more mercy toward people invisible, their interactions with our cornal justice system is the ideal.

But at the same time, I sugar with the fact that like, i'm sorry, but like in this country at twenty one, you can like lay down your life for the country in the military, you can legally consent all kinds of contracts. And I think we need to like virtud ideally greater consistency on that front in terms of what constitutes adult hood verses, what does not. But I do think that there is maybe this almost like what's the term for IT like collective effort sons, like the feeling that people get when at a religious service are at a concert, whatever their form of, like collective like you know community, spiritual ally with those around them and getting swept up in the moment, there is something to that. And I wonder whether we're seeing that in this like incredibly helped form. Be a live streaming crime yeah .

I think it's like we can change the rules for person and for people like this who are caught up in in the moment this way. Multos cocktail girl, it's like gotto go to prison for head um but I couldn't help but think about this exact thing well, especially watching me all sort of joyce uh, narration of everything you have two hundred thousand changes, two hundred thousand followers in a moment like that a lot of people are watching you.

It's happening in the real time you're being egged on everybody and um yeah it's some crazy option that you know IT IT affects you and this is the nature of social media right it's like IT opens you up to that. The the bigger you become there's a lot of mean people talk about algorithm. Uh, what is the audience capture rather this is this feels like a maybe a version of that where you kind of lose yourself to the to the crowd.

I mean, again, like you got a you did the crime you get to you got to do the time potentially. But I do wonder if we have a bigger problem and it's not even necessarily social to came in this case. I I wonder how much of this is actually social media.

I do think one of the interesting things with the like luu leman girl molotov cocktail case that you are citing, mike, is like, it's funny because peak meat too. error. There is almost this like implication that like women don't really have capacity for evil. They are merely these people, creatures that are so frequently duped and consult and persuaded.

And then now it's interesting because with stuff like the blue human White girl throwing the mullet tov cocktail, IT says, if in that moment, in those, in those type of scenario, we are sort of waking up to like actually know every single person has kept great capacity for evil, including the seemingly yoga a perl batch, right? Like and I think that's sort of an interesting, weird full circle moment that we're in here. I think that's probably a Better way of thinking about people is like, you know, everybody has capacity for you know rehabilitation and for evil and for for good as well.

But like that's an interesting component to this. I almost wonder the degree to which is a useful corrective. No longer letting you know certain demographics of Scott free.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but IT sounds like you're saying there was something sort of feminist about IT throwing the models top cocktail of the cop.

No, i've been saying there's something feminist about the fact that like we're collectively repulsed by that and feel the need to lock somebody up for doing that, right? Like that's the way that I should be. No， I don't think it's very feminist of top cocktail.

It's also like, I mean. Like the nineteen seventies equivalent of, uh, luu lemon girl, throw a molotov cop tail at a cop car was just like burner dean done. Like kedges the weather underrun like blowing up buildings like Chelsea s mom, alright, it's just like this, like middle house for White, stylish, kind of cool White .

people like paris.

Yeah, right?

There was one that clam to be brainwashed. IT was A A SHE also SHE like war bi SHE was like SHE looked like a model. What was her name? No one in the weather underground.

I think he was in the .

weather under IT was a big part of IT was like it's like massive story in the early seventies, I believe SHE gets kidnapped, a Patty herse yes.

that was the oh yeah what he was kidnapped and he looks like stocks and dror whatever. But he came part of SHE was like a social issue, was like the area of like a publishing empire. Finally owe, like most of the uh, newspapers in every sound.

you know, any final thoughts or important details of the story before we move on?

Yeah I mean, I guess i'll just say that filly's been going pretty viral on twitter, uh, the past couple days just because everyone's talking about the law lessons there and they're looting. But if you compare what happened two days ago to what happened in twenty twenty, the scale of the destruction was much lower like I was walking you through walnut street yesterday and I was really only the stores where but was egg people on IT was the apple store was footlocker IT was uh lu women um and in twenty and twenty they firebombed stores in philothea like they're still the old doc Martin store has now been turned into a beer garden because I was fire bombed .

and burn down and you know we live in a stupid .

st culture so dumb and a running store that got looted is now like this uppy bar um but you twenty twenty the destruction was much greater um but I think you know the city a few months ago paid out ten million dollars to protesters from twenty twenty the they tear gas in the wake of you know um of George flyin everything um where's now you're seeing you know forty forty nine people arrested last night or something .

like arrested did noted IT seemed like the reaction was very different IT seems like a kind of national violent on crime which um is just much less tolerant of maybe things in general. I think people are feeling agitated. They they are feeling like the worlds a little bit too chaotic for them.

They want to Normalcy. We saw a lot of this last night at the G. O.

P. debate. The crime was a pretty big part of that. A liz, I know you were watching.

What was your overall take of of that? Like maybe let's narrow down um obviously, trump wasn't there. So the whole thing to me feels kind of beside the point he's leading.

By what? Like sixty points. There's no way he's not going to be the nomination unless he's jailed and even then might still be the nomination. But if you really sort of look at the people the canada is talking a and you were to break down their messaging to america, what do you think are the the narratives that we're really resonating, particularly when IT comes to, like crime and immigration?

Well, I think IT was incredibly, like you said, farcical. Le, not only was trump not present, but he also was IT really mentioned. And I think on one hand, that could allow people theoretically ally on a debate stage to move on to more pressing issues. But that's not really what they did. And I think instead, IT almost felt like this very conspicuous sence where, you know, they don't need to fully deffand themselves in relation to trump.

But to some degree, they need to reckon with the fact that trump is polling, you know, so far above them, and that there is a massive contingent of maga, true blue die hearts, and that felt like something like just the massive elephant in the room that nobody was really acknowledging. I'm not really sure what you this served. I felt like I wasted my own time a little bit, which is actually amusingly something wrong to santos even mentioned in the post game interviews where he was like, if i'd been watching this at home, I probably would have turned IT off and it's like you just told on yourself the right like this is totally pointless.

Uh, I think in terms of bigger narratives, there was a lot of, I would say, lip service paid to issues at the southern border. Um there was a lot of jumping from issues at the southern border to people are dying a fentener and there is a big overdose problem and there's a big crime problem. There wasn't necessarily very much um you know detail given and and I feel like some of the connective tissue that strings these issues together, which are admittedly related, was missing. So I felt a little bit like IT was just kind of like people are coming in at the border fit to homelessness and it's like, okay, you need a little bit more teasing out not only ally, how that is happening.

said he was gonna the military into mexico to take out the car tels that seemed like a new direct we need to this type comment yeah I mean.

but this is something to scantily repeatedly says and they never really I am sorry, this is wankel but like never identifies the mechanism by which he would legally do that, right? Like he either misunderstands the actual power that he has or he wants to like, go to war with mexico and invade, which like we should dissect that a little bit more if that is actually what you authentically we be doing.

He was clearing war. What exactly? How do you use the military in a foreign and not declare war? I say after twenty years, I guess, of doing that. So I mean, that's a stupid question. We definitely have been doing that.

I mean, I guess you could like extra legally do this vial like C I, A assassin return to an end of a public view. But like regard to this actually fishing out the mechanism by which he intends to do this I think would be useful and honestly did do for things like the bec roa sari comment about um you revoking birthright citizenship for for children of illegal immigrants and changing basically the way the united states es perth right citizenship again this is something that the bc ramasamy has talked about a fair bit on the campaign trail and none of this is really new at all um but the specific mechanism by which he means to accomplish this legally I think is of some significant the only person first right thing.

Yes, finish your thought.

I do you want? The only person who I think actually seemed tethered to reality was nicki hai. And I think the problem is that to some degree, under mined her overall performance h he tried to fit so much detail in there.

Uh, and I think it's pretty highly logical. But in doing so, the show manship of IT, I think is missing, and i'm not sure how will that take place. I would onest ly say Chris cristy had some very hug points.

Donal duck doing that, no one appears going to see you Donald trump. We're going call you a Donald duck. We will be calling you Donald trump. Ny, more we calling you donal Donald down that's a bem quote that was Christmas.

Racy also was the one who made the crack about, um you know how biden is like sweeping with the teacher's unions, which is very awkward pencil up with like, I get ready to buy .

a teacher I was like such IT was such a like a weird foray into penis sex life IT was something that nobody asked for, nobody needed, nobody wanted. why?

He doesn't fuck. He doesn't fuck right? Like there's no way .

his White mother, which is a little people, just moved on from that I wasn't able to, but this was alright.

So on birthright citizenship, you were saying you're saying there's no legal mechanism for what vivid proposed, which was, uh, I think revoking what this the proposed was revoking birth right uh, from people S R already have in birthrate is like cross the border. You have a kid. The kid is automatically an american citizen.

That did seem to me kind of create like I don't know how you can revoke someone citizenship. However, the idea of getting rid of birthrights moving forward IT feels like pretty Normal. Actually, most countries in the world, don't I? I think very few countries in the world have some kind of birth right citizenship. If I were to go to spain and have a kid, the kid would not be spanish, uh, unless unless I had the kid with a spanish woman. So what is so controversial about that?

I mean the I think the chAllenges like we have constitutional issues here are like fourteen amendment .

a is party right? What's won that this what scope was used like? No, this this is a slave of a moment that is nothing to do with immigration.

I mean, that's not how IT has traditionally been legally interpreted. I mean, i'm not illegal collar, but elias's mine over at all conspiracy ah definitely covers a fair amount um and there's like I think the cases here, i'm trying to look up the case now so I can point you in the right drug tion, I think it's united states be uh one kim ark um and basically IT affirms that people born on U S soil uh with the exception of like foreigner plomin S I think like you know that's one exception.

Uh soldiers of invading army don't get the ability to just give birthday citizenship to their children, which I think IT makes a lot of sense um but those are people are all afforded citizens ship by the force. The moment this is historically how the supreme court has interpreted this, we have pretty longing president on that. And I think of that maybe downplays the degree to which this would be a very hard thing to change constitutionally. So I mean, yeah, maybe it's an interesting policy discussion to have, but I think if he actually wants to be the executive making sure that the policies he's proposing past constitutional muster is sort of A A useful perret was .

IT in countries where there isn't birthright citizenship, you do have issues sometimes where you have people who are like in the country illegally, whatever. And then they have children and then those children are basically stateless because the laws in their own country don't allow someone who's like not there or whatever, like there's like all these issues that can arise from that where you could end up with people who um just like we don't even know where to send them, right?

Like there is for instance, there was um a um like what would you do about like abandoned children and like somebody like finds a baby in the world. That means this like stuff so of happy and to say you don't know who their parents were. So it's like, are the U.

S. Citizens I called country they belong to how was handled? The border control found a book um at the border earlier this week. They don't know where this baby is from. I assume that you will be like adopted out um and be given some sort like revised thing and that made U S like barton per certificate, made A U S citizen because like I mean we literally don't know where what country is maybe is from. We can't deport IT I don't know support a baby anyway but like you definitely can't support one to just I were no country and the like we think this one might be going to all you take, you know so I mean, I I think there's like a lot of like human, a tragedies that could arise from us getting great to protect its in ship with this level is like chaotic immigration.

Like you have to wait that against the fact that right now we have an obvious massive incentive to just cross and have a child and citizen. I know why a foreign diplomat who has a is any different than someone to crossing the border illegally and having a kid here um what like and no money saying neither should be citizen but why wouldn't the foregone diplomats kid to be a citizen I don't understand distinction at all.

And I I wonder what would happen actually with this court if if something were to be taken to them. Because if you were to ask me ten years ago, less five years ago, if robi wade would ever go away, I would have said, definitely not. That seemed unthankful to me. And yet, here we are.

Well, the thing that I think is so interesting about the foreign born citizenship question or or the the you when when nationals, other countries come the united states and have essentially an inker baby, is this is such a weird thing to fix IT on in terms of like how to fix the crisis at the southern word, like of the question of the motorists, is what to do about the massive, massive infection of people that has just absolutely surge under the by administration attempting across the southern order, not typically just mexicans.

We have venezia ans. We have people from the middle ast, we have people really coming from all over the world and and flowing across, attempting to seek a sillam port of entry. And the thing that I think is so fast in right now is this has been what's been going on for quite a while. And then there are all of these sort of so called sanctuary cities in the united states know cities I think that we all live in and have a lot of familiarity with.

like the one that is only one that matters, I believe.

Yeah, new york, exactly. But it's it's absolutely crazy like they essentially have a law on the books in new york city, I think past in the eighties that makes IT so that they are supposed to provide a refugee shelter, food service, social services to um you know anybody who comes here. I'm sorry, but now you have this problem where literally new york's governor Cathy oka is saying, don't come here and they're distributing flers in spanishers to these people saying new york is for there .

is this crease. They said, go to more affordable cities with errors to pointing to different cities, including different ago that that's the crazy shit to me. I think it's only i'm .

not sure whether they were pointing to specific cities or whether the graphic design of IT was just like literally anywhere.

like anywhere, go anywhere. God do not come.

There's an interest in things here that I think is do not come. Do not come.

I'm going to come.

Relevant to tell me the themes that like you explore all the time at pie wires, which is will a bunch of like do good or left this who live in service eco or live in new orka, live in los Angeles, claim that they just want to constantly let us many immigrants as possible. And then they run into this huge problem. Words like, well, actually, how do we accommodate this? You all, you want that and you simulate ess.

You want a massive social city. You want a massive vocal. And literally, new york is in this situation where eric S.

S A P. I were saying, we don't have the means to support this anymore. And I think this is actually like worth seeing this moment. A bunch of far left, his policies are collapsing on crime. And what, you know, as IT pertains to sexual cities in the welfare state, and to me, that kind of seems like this is fertile territory for people seeking the republican nomination to go after. So like, why did they say, why do they leave this on the table?

Where, which which part they live on definitely .

talking about the fact that like what a crazy deming entitled of new york's policies for new york to say we're worry city but no, actually J, K or full don't come here. I mean, I think that was .

maybe just a debate. They were really trying to pack a lot in there. I definitely heard them go after new york quite a bit on this issue.

I'm curious how you think about IT as a libertarian because I was, you know, libertarian for many years. I think it's still, to some degree, my north, I think in a perfect world at that I am freedom ended for sure. I want to maximize that as much as possible.

However, we live in a society and IT, uh, has a lot of structure in place already. One of things in place is a massive and increasingly large social wealth are state as you as you just mentioned um libertarians were a famously open border more way before the left was doing at the libertine won't top of that. I was a literal open border guy ten years ago um but then I had a face the fact that we were very close to getting that policy.

In fact, we had already had IT to to some extent but there was no way we were ever going to get rid of the social wealth are state which i'd even kind of change my opinion as the years of gump, but you you can't have both, like you can't have open borders and a welfare state without destroying the country. IT seems to me like that just seems like straight logic, like we don't have the money to pay out every person on the planet who moves here. How do you think about that as a libertarian?

Well, what do you mean by open borders?

So I mean, the classic libertarian approach is o is is free markets like a free country? Is a total, a literally open border sort move on in and and any everyone's welcome. There are no quoters. Anyone who comes here can come here and build.

So sort of like the U. S. P, you know, eighteen fifties or so.

So sure. But this is the population of the planets, like seven plus billion now. And i'm not saying that that's speritual.

I'm saying so this is actually a huge pet peeve of mine. I think libertarians use the term open borders sort of like at their own peril, and they end up sort of undermining their case. A lot of the times, I think there's definitely a time in a place to do are like wy libertarian, like aspirational, open borders free, move into people and goods across borders, like that is something that I fundamentally want in value.

But I think it's important to remain realistic and either to reality. And the way I would frame my own personal immigration beliefs is know the fact that we have such long waiting list for both low skilled and seasonal workers and also high skilled workers attempting to come into this country to work and study. The fact that in some cases, if you're an indian applying for, uh, you know, your educated, you went to I T and you you're applying for A A VISA, you might be waiting for ten years to come and work at a tech for in this country.

To me that's a travesty. H and an example of like a relatively reasonable weight list. Um what I see is the ideal is drastically increasing the number of vias that we hand out two people in a hole and to different categories. I think the fact that like you know, we experience um such experiencing shortages of pilots right now, we're experiencing physician shortages. We're also then experiencing like child care sector worker shortages. And I know that sometimes this makes left this super pissed off, but fundamentally I want the ability till I find a nanny for my son um and you know maybe pay below market rate for a new york and nani world uh and you know there's a whole bunch of venezuelans who wanted fly socialism who wants to come here and work for slightly below current market rate for me and I want the ability to make that deal speaking .

a pissed off leftists we do have a burning brow in the chat with us. River, what is your response to this?

Um I mean I think that there's libertarians are like love talking about like markets and supply and demand. But then like all the sudden when IT comes to the labor market and immigration, they are like there is no supply and demand like demand, like the supply is not going to like lower the Price of labor. It's just not like it's is the same thing where I in the left is like basically doing this now too.

Like I mean, Andrea nago, basically guy who wrote kill norms SHE basically got kicked down the left and called a fascist for writing an american affairs an article that basically said, like IT is the left this position to restrict immigration because IT hurts are working class at lowest wages IT um hurts union density um and like I I think all that's true like there there are plenty of studies that show that a mass immigration of the kind we're like seeing at the summer born so like you know mostly lower skill, like fairly uneducated workers. IT hurts um working class wages, particularly in the black community um and I just feel like that's completely ignored. So like they're like, okay, well, what if we pretend that everyone is like actually starting a small business?

And I the consequences that you're describing, I think they are biology, correct. First of all, I think that there are in terms of labor market, I think supply and demand absolutely does exist. The problem is like the labor market, so currently disorderly minimum wage laws, but also to restrictions on immigration. But the consequences that you're talking about related to displacement and how much this might hurt the working class, I think you're right. I think about terrans need to do a Better job of owning the fact that there will be those consequences.

I also think actually sometimes, uh, people on on the right wing, when they talk about the possible influx of crime and criminals and and increased Carter activity and stuff, I think that actually librarians would be intelligent to pay little bit more attention to what they're talking about and to maybe support some of the abetting processes that they're seeking to. Some degrees ing like I think being overrun by you know car tels would be a very bad thing. And I don't think that should be that controversial. This thing IT no guilty .

yet to undergo. I have to think more. Well.

I should make a full girted endor enough. Like, I think it's fine to that people to make sure there not absolutely insane, murdered super flooding across our borders. And I think the fact that some of my uh country men on the in camp liberators and failed to admit that I think is a big problem.

I mean, really you I think you the fact of the matter ist like there are negative consequences that come with drastically increased immigration. Uh, I own those consequences. And I think the net good, it's still a net good.

And I think we can kind of look to canada. I mean, the U. S. Foreign population is what twelve percent canada has, like twenty four percent canada hasn't fAllen to become a total shit show .

though obviously just knows attempting the wants to this podcast. Let's just yes, I mean, we've written extensively on the clown car that we call canada.

I would like a crypto heaven, crypto and immigration heaven, where just like note, just intrude type losers ever get elevated to public office. So that's like my canadian american vision.

okay? My canadian american vision is they are, that's where we keep our resources. They have a fake government that we pretend exists until we need stuff for in canada, and then it's ours. That is my vision for cano and they don't keep a vote um let's I I do want to talk about so on the immigration thing i'm kidding by the way, I don't come for me. I don't really wanted in slave the canadians like basically us.

I just implying a on immigration and that governance there and sexual cities, one city so far that is escaped more or less unescapable from uh, the migration I don't know how long I can last actually uh has been sanford cisco and sank cisco has some pretty funny policies in this regard. I remember years ago before COVID, I would take the bus home from work and we pass IT uh like a facility. I think I was a pal center um maybe wasn't almost center.

There was really a church and then like something next to IT that that felt like a social center of some kind and IT had a giant banner outside that said, uh, immigrants welcome and is a beautiful sentiment um I think he had some might have mentioned the sanctuary city component which was very invoke the time under the dollar trump presidency and outside on the steps were maybe twenty home people sleeping and I was like that every single day that that I drove past and uh, I just kind of for me, really highlights the politics of 3Frances co is like this patent of goodness and this absolute decay。 Like if you have a room for immigrants, how do you not have room for the people who live here? Why are they sleeping on the street? Why is that not our priority? right? Like stuff like this, we talk about IT a lot.

I think one of the central characters in this entire drama of 3Frances go is a man in deep pressed in who I referred to often as the millionaire marxist。 Sga just wrote a great profile of the man he's on the board of supervisors. Take IT away. yeah.

Well, before I get into dee, I just want to say I don't know if sympathetic o has actually escaped the wave of immigration because like ninety percent of their final dealers are from honda that's decide that's an aside for later um yeah deep pressed in as you said, his a member of the board of supervisors which is um like schrenker city councils very powerful. Legislated body in the city and each supervisor represents a different district um so dean represents district five, which is a very heterogeneous cross section of 3Frances co IT includes neighborhoods like the hate ashbury um in japan town and also includes poor neighborhoods like the western dishes and since last year the tenderloin um which is a very infamous uh part of inferences go known for its OpenAIr d rug m arkets a l ot o f h omelessness u m a nd s ome o f t he m ost d eprived s cenes t hat y ou c an s ee o n t he s treets o f a merica。

Unfortunately in the stain age so dean responsible for for those neighbors ods um he I think a good line to sort of summarized who is for someone who's not familiar with him is he's the cities is only openly democratic socialist legislature and he's also a multimillionaire who um according to public records has at least um like four million dollars in stock at apple, cisco, IBM and microsoft despite his claim that capitalism is the riot of all evil and we need to combat the parasitic one percent he owns a three point four million dollar house in alamo square which is one of the wealthy neighbor ds and sefra csco he has a house in long island. He and his wife have gotten sold hundreds of acres of property uh in medicinal conney up in the north bay um and he's a trust fan baby he grew up in grannis village in a cop building that his parents owned he went to boat in and then you see hastings and has done like public interest law for his career before getting into politics um and he brings himself as an advocate for the poor dispossessed um but his voting record shows that he's basically the opposite um he's been one of the most a consistent opponents of affordable housing and sentence ces co um so from the scope has some of the most restrictive zoning laws in the country which make IT like very, very difficult to build anything there. And dean has been a big proponent of entrenching those restrictive of zoning laws and he's blocked um like almost fifty thousand sing .

in general he comes out IT from this perspective war he says ah it's not that I don't want housing. I just want housing for the rich. But of course, the city has essentially prohibited the construction of housing to such a degree.

Amit is so hard that the only way to build housing that actually turns a profit is to build these giant fucking loser condos for rich people, that this is the system they created and then they're like, no, we can build those so that leaves us with nothing. And I think the track record of people like DNA is just cost in blocking housing. And so yeah we yeah and he also .

blocked housing in these very cover um a sensibly progressive ways so there was a very informative case at a cycled the hub and inferences go which they want to rezone for affordable housing, basically just a bunch of like abandoned parking lots.

Um we're like people were using drugs and shit and dean got word of this apparently from an angry resident in this neighborhood who didn't want affordable housing being bill and he ask for an equity study um to be done which in the city like inferences go when you ask for you know an equity study or environmental study that's basically code for like shut the ship down for the next decade the equity study like you know was like five or six years later. I still hadn't really gotten off the ground and I don't know was maybe two or three years later but years later I hadn't got off the ground um and construction still has a hasn't really taken off at the hub. Um so it's that kind of the .

profile was really well timed because he just got into a huge controversy online. After controversy, he was massively racial ed after he suggested the solution to the car break in problem in san Francesco was to convince and Frances scans to stop leaving things in their car and that, I mean, there I get everything and push back for criticizing these people like of course, you shouldn't leave things in your car and it's like, I guess that's true.

But also the bigger thing here is we need to do something about the people breaking into cars. And I I think that that is like, that is the core thing that a that has animated people in this sort of anti dean pressed in wave. This is what is brought people from all political stripes together, I think everybodys over the the sort of widespread decay of basic ability.

And and yet elan mask, suggesting that he was gonna some money to the etd impressing campaign, seems to have gavan's zed the left at list. Did you follow this at all? And what do you make of IT?

Well, I think it's just a classic neo baby move to have gone to boat in right like this, like boozy each bag liberal art school in maine where they do like these fucking like lobster fees every semester like I hate that all the mental image that this a brings up is horrible I no I mean this is a classic tale and he wants to go out. I think um it's crazy to me even though this story about how people like to impress in um block housing, even though you know he gets reported by people like you guys and we do a lot of this reason it's sunning to me that there is still the entire contingent of people who don't see um with any sort of clarity the relationship between things like sequa and environmental review laws and these equity studies and the fact that housing ends up being very expensive not just for poor people and not just for us but literally for ever what I mean you look at the median Price of a home and services co isn't IT like one point two .

million for a one Better? Yeah I couldn't call that. Yeah yeah no. I mean.

that's like stunning to me. And I live in new york city, which is a notoriously a worked an awful housing market as well. But the fact that like seven ver cisco is is eyehole even when I that's my standards of comparison.

And I mean, it's it's so clear that in so many of these big cities in L A, in seven years ago in new york, we have totally distorted the housing markets and made IT so that essentially you are creating this seamless. You're creating this pyjama class of upper middle class laptop workers who were the only people who can really afford to live there. And so like say goodbye to like the look read pokemon days, uh, or all of the like hippies in the cement is used to live in service to slow.

Who made IT an interesting place? Um it's it's really becoming closed off to them. But obviously like the main problem with this is that you make IT so like poor people don't have any place to go. Um and then they they use all of these top down solutions to attempt to engineer solution to this problem at like you know when building new construction, forcing developers to set aside a certain number of units that are income restricted to geter to the poor. Okay, i'm sorry, but you're just distorting the housing market further instead actually fixing the underlying issue.

Yeah and it's it's just crazy that the it's all in service the redick in service of this large for the the working people who can afford to live in your city because of your policies and and IT IT seems like it's still resonates with people.

So elon mosque, uh, by entering the debate online so the local politics people went nuts when dean said the carb rick thing deep pressed in enters, uh, are ella mosque enters the conversation, he says i'm going to give some money to the anti dean pressed in campaign and dean manages to flip that around and use IT in his favor because he is living as this as this hard core marxist who's like in IT for the people and he's you know in IT for the working class again, the working class that does not example, disco is a land of uh nonprofits who say they are helping the homes and don't and rich tech workers that is kind of what m in landlords, people who have existed there forever because of the tax codes um that's what you have in san Francesco. He turns this around and is like, I am being a act by the billionaire and IT IT seems to be working in his favor. Uh, what do you guys make of that river? Have you did you follow that at all? And I mean, you seem like you should yeah I mean.

have seen I mean there's this whole like a any age it's of like rich communist face I mean fredric engles owned a factory in scotland like I mean this goes although head back to the beginning you add in laws like a prince of the communist revolution um of course I get the weather underworld mostly like upper midd class White kids it's it's all like a arb and like a IT doesn't I mean not always I mean say what you will about stolen at least grew up poor. But I mean stolen also will .

said that .

right and by the stone told you to walk up your car like you you know they that would you feel about like so as russia, like if you saw something like you a blog, they would lock you up.

Um but you I mean it's it's in it's it's interesting in deep business case because he's actually like serving his own interests as a military ant inferences go um through all these laws but he's able to cast um the pursuit of his own uh like class interest as uh the pursuit of class the class interest of the working class which again like barely existence ever to go so I mean there's like a there's like an irony to that and um also I whenever I see people with like deep pressing money, uh fighting with people with all of us money. I'm like neither neither one of you have to like work a day in your lives ever again and your kids probably won ever have to either. So like just you people like they doesn't matter. Like you know I mean, it's like there's no meaningful distinction between military in terms of like do you actually have to worry about any economic issue personally in your life? And the answer.

you are so clear that nobody hates a billionaire more than a millionaire. They are the ones who are. You see, you see this in the actor strike. Who is that the, uh, I IT was the two girls on that, like sort of wy H B O show and they were like, or the wacky, they were like, super into hilary .

clinton.

And what is there? What was the city? yes. What is .

that going off?

And h sort of characterizing them as the read that, like the billionaires are are really um they are uh in slaving really, really aggressive language. And he uses, for example, mac David that was like her SHE brought to. Even people like mad damon and I thought, like mad diamond is not oppressed.

What are we talking about here? This is crazy. Like this is this is just intro rich warfare. I don't care about this. I refused this.

This reminds me a little bit of the um very recent aoc sound by which for whatever reason, I don't think people need that much attention to you. Where you know he was taken to task by an interviewer um you know for having a tesla p for having the tesla, the electric vehicle SHE bought opposed to something union may an american mate. No, the r car was purchased during the pandemic when travel before a vaccine had come out.

So travel between new york and washington, the safest way that we had determined was an easy, but that was prior to some of the new models coming out on the market that had the range available. But we're actually looking into trading in our car now. So and he was so hilarious because he SHE responded in like the sort of classic, like the sort of left is like, well, actually, let me educate you, type a and she's like, well, you know, this is really what served our needs at the time because the range was much.

But actually we're looking into swapping IT out because we do really want to like live our our values and it's like you're full of shit. And also, you just told on yourself because the tesla the range was Better. Oh, you mean that this non union made uh car is superior than other things on the market? Your revealed preferences are kind of the same as a whole bunch of other people, people and you're just such an leaders, right? Like at least pretend a little bit Better to be this like bronx's working class girl, bronx working class girls don't .

have text less lady, like the mega a first dress. It's like come on to eat the rich stress. I'll never, I will never fucking forget that dress.

It's an incredible grip and she's done a great job. Honestly, I will um curry favor with river over here and hand IT to berny at least berny at least you know you ve got a head IT to stolen and you ve got a handed to berny at least you like was terribly lazy and sort of like improvers sitting in like a little one room cottage in for a more forgiving ilian years with like a mattress on the world.

He was literally like a matters on the four bro until he was like, forty. yes. So I do statically .

a poor loser, and we love about him. I want to talk about some of their policy though, in the context specifically of actual public goods. So transit river, you just rote a fantastic piece.

I encourage everyone to read IT on the bright line in florida, which is a high speed, barely high speed rail, but IT constitutes as high speed rail that is now connecting miami to our lando sort of IT seems like bucking the trend of amErica is not being able to build new infrastructure. You placed IT or talk about IT in the context of california high speed rail disaster. Do you want to just break that down for us?

sure. So uh, california high speed blow project was, uh, voters approve that in two thousand and eight and it's been fifteen years, they spent nine point eight billion dollars and not one mile track has been laid. So this day people the impression that like amErica just can't build high speed rail like this is there are like that in headlines.

AmErica can build high speed rail. Why amErica can build high speed rail? And really what people mean is california can build high speed.

Well, they are really the only one doing that. Uh, the bright line, which is a private company in floor up, uh, they recently finish the connection between miami and orlando. So now florida and a private company have created something that california cannot. That said, the bright line went four billion dollars over a budget and took nine years larger than they said I was going to.

So it's not exactly like the it's a um success and that IT exists and that success in comparison california under any other circumstance, ces people would be like, well, this you went way over budget and also took years larger than you expected IT to. That doesn't sound great, but it's the standards that the bar has been lowered so much about that like even uh this thing that took forever to build and you know was way more expensive is a success. And um so I go through and I go through all of um the reasons why this you know could be and you could argue that you know the free market has something to do with the bride.

Wine had obligations to it's uh private investors won holders to actually finish the project where as uh, california, I guess can just lie to people and say that it's it's going to be built forever. But really I think that it's it's incompetence like our government has built, built begin for structured projects. Most countries that have high speed rail, it's um those systems have been built by the government. Um for instance in france um their national rail is nationalized.

Um it's was the by governments run by the government uh in the french advisors who at came in and were advising california on their high speed world project and they got his off eventually and laugh and said that they were going to north africa because he was less political unctions and then they um hope moraca build a um high speed grows as I am like a matter of a couple of years. Essentially what california problem is is that they have embraced this politics of endless inclusion and limit on side scratch said they've embraces politics of in less preferences and luminous inclusion. So we have to serve everybody.

We have to please everybody. Everyone is still included. Everybody gets the contract in, uh you know everybody's needs us to be made.

It's it's not more important than uh random small cities and uh, central california get real than that is that uh, we actually build what we said we were going to build, which is a uh collection between seven us go and L A um IT. Is this sound? It's the same problem really. That's at the root of all of california's problems. I mean, you you look at the homelessness issue or it's like we're gonna give money to a billion different ages all over the place and like they're onna fix IT and um you know everybody comes here um we have held everyone and it's it's it's this um just like totally incoherent system of governance that is only works because california is so wealthy in any other place in the world. Like this would just completely collapse or in IT on itself.

It's I actually compared the uh like most absurd points of like soviet bureaucracy favor to like what california construction because at the end of IT, at the very least, like you would end up with a product like you know, I mean, like this is inefficient as like the soviet union was, at the very least they could like build a train. But like california can even do that. Like the literally like socialism can like you a train capable ism could give you a train. California ism cannot build you anything.

It's I think so if you want to build a train, high speed rail from california or from you want to build high speed rail fro m 3 Frances go to los Angeles， you're going to make people unhappy. And I think maybe that's the weird thing that californians don't know how to grap with specifically. I mean that the governance of california a doesn't how to grap with.

They're going to be towns along that, that they don't want the train there for any number of reasons. They don't like the look of IT. They don't like the sound of IT.

They have some invented a environmental grievance that are going to raise. They're going to be towns that are not on that path. They feel let out. As you also discussing the piece.

when they moved, take a detour r into the fucking desert, right? Because it's like seem sober about there that like an L A county commissioner. Oh so like we have to just like out to this.

I think when you say you know the problem is endless inclusion and reference, that is what like to successfully create infrastructure for the greatest number of people, you you're going to necessarily make some people upset. You will never have one hundred percent, uh, sort of, uh, one hundred percent yes vote from everybody. No american public infrastructure project would have achieved this, including things like the inner state highway system, for example, like that, that wonder there are many people who .

are .

opposed to that. The rail, uh, across the 呃， the ross content rail, which private of time, but like that, that these things, these things upset people. And in florida, what you have is the support of the government. People were upset about the bright line and continue to be upset about the bright line. People are complaining about the bright line right now. I saw this morning um because a bunch of people have been walking on the trains and getting killed and they're you need to shut the bright line down and it's like, I mean, we don't people should stop walking on the train, uh train tracks so we can have stuff in our society like we need to we need to have public trains. Um people wear upset in florida every step of the way and continue to be so in the government .

by two different counties over like and they did the same thing. They didn't california IT was like, oh, H M we need an environmental study was one of the things and they I think that was indian river county suit um because they said that the founders ies the the way that they issued the bonds was an a correct just all of this stuff that would like MIT to slow IT down and did so IT down to a certain next to.

what do you make of star review? You want to rap IT up before I I just have a question reality and .

I was just going to say like the difference between bright line and california is that bright line was like, okay, no, we're gonna fight all of this in core. And california is just like rolling over every every time anybody anybody raises injector.

please, what do you make of IT as I mean an anarchist who doesn't believe in the concept of public goods? Um what what do you make? What make the doing trains flavor skillful first? So my main take away .

from this is just that I want reverted like report out all of these types of stories because this was excEllent reporting. Um IT was really, really, really well done. And you know reason produce a documentary on this, like a short to attend in a documentary on the brightlight project can SAT down with the C E O.

And I Frankly like would recommend uh both watching the reason offering and then also reading reverse accounts because I think yours definitely comes on a little bit more critical, a little bit tougher on bright line. But I think both are really useful and it's. Really fascinating infrastructure project.

I do think your fundamental take away about like california m is so destructive and especially that practice that has become so common place of rolling over and just tagged IT just, you know, basically succoring to the citizens beto the hackers beto and refusing to have the ambitious projects IT is so obvious that california is wandering the upper hand that I had um you're right like IT is able to sort of coast on its wealth. But my question is like for how much longer you know when we're already seeing crazy outmigration from that state, uh, at what point does the coasting stop? Uh, and at what point do they have to stop biting the hands that feed? We also see this so much.

I've been following servants school implementing that crazy like tax on, I guess, executives that companies, uh, where they make more than one hundred times the median employee salary insurance skill. And one of the obvious consequences of this is you have people leaving a samper. This co.

I've also studied to a fair amount of like capital flight in skeena eeda. And like norway has been jacking up their taxes lately, specifically on alter million's and billions. And so guess what they do? They flew to switzerland.

What would you do in that situation? right? And so I think that to some degree, this is an underappreciated story that I wish more people would focus on, which is like when you bite the hand that feeds, there are unintended there are negative unintended consequences that result from that.

Uh, I do think it's fair for you to throw some cold water onto the bright line project and say, like, look, what a bummer that the bar has been set so low in the us. That that is considered successful at the same time. One thing that I do think is really interesting is that, you know brightness is obviously private.

But as far as I understand IT, the ticket Prices are sort of kept pretty low. And you the ideas that it's supposed to be affordable to people of all different income levels in florida. Um so in order take a three hour trip.

you take two x mixed.

It's it's like seventy nine from run my amid to uh orlando. And I mean that something that some people of that in the comments of my article, people were like, yeah, you is cheaper to just dry I mean, I guess if you don't have a car like you know but I mean, I personally, as somebody who lives himself for A I if I want to go to all I know, I would probably just drive because IT really, I mean, a roundtrip would be like over a hundred fifty guards. So I mean, I don't emi, so is gonna be.

But I realize I was looking at the kids Prices, but I should look at actual adult Prices and not try to just like graphic children across the state of florida like a total weirdo. no. Um okay, fair enough. I do think it's interesting considering like how will driverless cars change the equation for people that sort of seems like this interesting thing where it's like will bright line essentially be obsolete or totally pointless ten years or now?

I don't know that, that has given california m is that the word that were using doesn't take entire country and ban them pretty much everywhere. I think this is the next major war that we're going to see politically, at least when IT comes to attack post the anti trust stuff. Self driving cars are coming.

The experiments were already happening in sentence ces go. People are already mobilized to stop them. And you're going to see this kind of come up everywhere you go.

And I really would not be surprised if this became a major, a major position in, you know, you want to say, democratic party politics, but you have talk a carles and coming out against self driving trucks and things like this. This is a very populist writing position as well. I think there's maybe bipartisan consensus, at least at the extremes, to stop this kind of thing, and I wouldn't be surprised if they succeed.

I almost feel like we're being a little bit too nice to the state of california here just in that. Like I don't think those nine point six billion dollars just disappoint into the either. I think there's probably like a vast bureaucratic structure of people who are benefiting and getting .

salaries from this money. No, it's over a thousand. The way I this are, I cited an article too because it's impossible to like track down, I guess, without doing a foyer like exactly where every dollar a is going.

But they do brag on their own website that the money was invested in the california economy through over one thousand private firm. And so this is basically just a massive like give away and for the people like complaining that um you know the florida bride line project isn't um isn't good somehow because of private company benefit. Private companies have benefit more in california because they've got ten nine point eight billion dollars to do literally fucking nothing.

I think what wasn't one of these organizations voted employer of the year or something. I just saw this link that I was assured in our chat um I just IT IT IT seems not is so bad IT seems not real but that's california, man. IT is like the distillation of american luck. IT can just number on, uh, with just the worst policy in the country, the resources are there and the people are there. Well, for now, as less mentioned ah i'm going to give the last thought to you is before we wrap this week.

I was just going to say that I think it's super interesting that we will see with driverless cars and to the extent that projects like bright line get completed, this displacement of like truckers, for example, and sort of like lower skilled but you and moderately paid workers at the same time, we'll probably see a lot of, hey, I displacing highly skilled laptop class workers uh and then we are also talking earlier in this conversation about one of the unintended consequences or or second order impacts from letting a whole bunch of immigration in immigrants in and classically increasing immigration will be the fact that a bunch of working class americans, including you, sided black males river.

And I think it's true like there there will be lots of people put out of jobs as so I think one of the most interesting things that will need to pay really good attention to is what are the political undercurrent that emerge from this time of rapid displacement, and how rapid will this displacement on both ends really be? Will this be something that feels earth shattering and quickly done? Or will this be something that happens gradually with people feeling us so they have enough time to adjust? But I think how IT happens and to which groups that happens will have massive implications for the types of politics, uh, that we have in the text of policies we pursue.

So it's kind of like were either fucked on both ends or possibly were in a time of like extreme innovation to come. And it's a matter of how we navigate these choppy waters. And I am fairly pessimistic based off of the .

debate from last night. Well, on that note, we will keep you guys here next week, and I promise a few more White pills. Thanks for listen, guys, and follow is twitter list. What's your hand shut?

IT out. Let's well .

freeing later, guys.