Mark Zuckerberg Regrets Working With Biden, Telegram Founder Arrested, & PIRATE IDOL Week 2
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Mark sucker sent a letter to jim jorn and the chairman of the house judiciary committee.

I believe the government pressure was wrong, and I regret we were not more outspoken about IT. Yes, so zuker berg redemption arc continues. You everyone you get in, you get more right wing.

It's a fact, I think, he wants to do good in the world. He came pretty late with this statement.

Now that we will allow this information to be basically economically bad thing, the government is using that as an excuse to contact and pressure private companies. Two centers speech.

I don't even know why is the government allowed to talk to companies in a private way at all?

What's up, guys? Welcome back to in the pad we have a special guest. Uh, we gets cohoes and a guest judge later for paradigm with us bread plumbo, the host of brad, brad verse, everyone pot on youtube, which you can should go check out if you like him only so you Better make IT um so bad here we've got hired idol coming up uh, at the end of the show.

So that will be our last segment, I will say just kind of recapping on on what happened last week. I mean, again, as later in anny, later in the comments. So um you'll definitely be seeing him later, probably the others. I mean, I like people be coming back um less to say as this thing progresses.

We also have our a public market segment, uh, coming up in, I think chords, let's say, segment three, where they be talking about power and the bedding markets and what they think is going to happen within their but right out of the gate, I think we have to talk about mark zark berg's apology letter. So mark docker k sent a letter to jim Jordan, the chairman of the house judiciary committee, and admits a bunch shit. Brad, you just a piece about this um so well with the pod first of all. And then let's just get into a man. Take us take us down the mark soccer bird apology tour yes.

So zuker berg redemption ark continues, right? All the sudden he's going from like establishment deem to at least in the minds of some people on the right, having a little bit of a ademar moment. We can kind of question sanity of IT later. But what he did just do is, in my view, essentially blow the whistle and reveal the biden haris administrations complete contempt for at least the social societal principle of free expression and may be the first amendment.

So in his letter to a jim Jordan that you mentioned, he explained that during twenty twenty, during twenty twenty one and the pandemic and everything that went down, they were actively pressured at meta and facebook in particular by the federal government, the by administration, to take down posts and sensor what but other the wise be first moment protected speech and including even parity and SAT tire. So they're gone after your uncles babyland b memes about doctor, foul cheer, whatever IT may have been. That's what they were doing.

I talk about a misplacement of priorities. Could have been him, I don't know. Working to reopen the economy in our school safely took their time time on that one, but they had more important things.

And zc is now essentially passing the book. He said in this letter, I believe the government pressure was wrong, and I regret we were not more outspoken about IT. I also think we made some choices that with the benefit of hindsight and new information we wouldn't make today.

Now he said something interesting at the end of the letter too. He said, we're ready to push back. Is something like this happens again.

And I think IT very well, mag guys, because the vine administration put out a statement in response to this story and short version is we did nothing wrong, and we still absolutely think the government should dictate the companies what speech they should allow online. They say, you word salad. When confronted with a deadly pandemic, this administration encouraged to responsible actions to encourage public health and safety.

Our position has been clear and consistent. We believe tech companies and other private actors should take into account the affects their actions have on the american people while making independent choices about the information they present. So basically, we did yes wrong.

I was surprised they said anything they didn't have to say anything like you could have just saw her and age of breakfast like you did not .

have Better say nothing then say something that means absolutely.

So I mean, we're looking at the evolution of the party from a free speech party. This is the party of, uh, what is that famous, the the non profit that the republicans. I grew up p .

washing the fox .

needs people. A C, L, for like protecting free speech. We're littlest. Ly, no matter who was saying what I mean that that was what the democrats were, where we saw the evolution from that to whatever the hell IT became throughout the twenty twenty years, was like a sort of implicitly anti speech party. But I was never, so he was ever official.

And, uh, we kind of knew, and we ve written about the fact that like, okay, in the dorms to change, they really want this stuff. But I felt you were really attacking them by saying that now, you know, they're serve at meeting at themselves. You have walts, uh, the clip serve being reserves.

Now talking about what free speech is, you have the party saying that IT is totally fine, pressuring facebook into doing this. I think we need to push back on this there. There's no guarantee to free speech on misinformation or or hate speech, and especially around our democracy.

And we have the twitter files, right? So we have to knew they were doing this.

This is more of the same. Yeah, we knew this was happening is the first time Marks is getting into IT. I would say I still a lot of problems with, I love mark like principle, okay? Like I stanford, he built a lot.

His, I think, a cool dude. He just built a giant statue of his wife. That was pretty interesting.

He is, I think he wants to do good in the world. He came pretty late with this statement. And this information that I would say is very critical. We need to know this kind of stuff.

I don't even know like why is the government allowed to talk to companies in a private way at all if they're asking for something without a warrant? We should know about that. And this is something that he should have said.

All these executives have said this, the government petitions you for private information or the sensor someone and IT is like apparent violation of, if not the law, the actual sort of standard norms of the country, then you should say something and he said nothing. And now it's too late and we're gearing up towards the next election. And a kind seems to me like, okay, well, there's a real chance that Donald trump is going to win this next election. And what IT was Marks like a last sort of interaction with doll trump or on the topic of dollar trumpet, would have been a racing him, helping to erring him from the internet back in january of twenty twenty one.

So this was after six that the .

last time that that that he has been sort of touching the topic of Donald trump. And I think that there is a chance that he's probably just, you know, hedging here. Um i'm glad to see IT.

I don't I think it's a little bit too late. I hope he maintains the integrity. I interested to see what he is going to do if the requests come again.

And I mean, that would be much Better if I had come at the time and he didn't stand and released the emails and said, no, we will not CoOperate. I do want to dry. One distinction now is like there are some things that are not protected by the first amendment.

So if they want to tag, if they want to reach out to companies about, you know, child exploitation material, or you know, terr terrorist propaganda, or those kinds of things I have no issue with. What I have issue with is identifying posts, and that's what they would literally do. We don't have the details from meet yet, but we do from the twitter files.

They tend them links and lists of posts. Take these down as the suggestion, but also like when the federal government gives you a suggestion and your company that they have this regulatory acts hanging over your neck, right with section to thirty, with a bunch of mother regulations, it's not really a suggestion. I mean, it's kind of is, but it's more than a suggestion.

It's not we saw I was running at the time that they would drag these people to to congress while this was happening. They were concurrent. They were drag these people to congress and telling them we're going to have to regular or something that was empty thread, basically because we have the first emmet.

I the one thing I noticed is that I I didn't actually brad uh first first time learning that biden and Harris responded to that to that letter um but I was looking at vox today and they publish an article about the letter maybe yesterday and there will actually like its we already knew all this right which is kind of like commoner that take a version of in statement as well and I wanted to point out, like this is totally the like, it's not happening IT doesn't matter.

That is happening. It's good. That is happening me in .

the ild yes like a .

hundred percent right um and I think other thing I wanted to comment on on IT is like, yes, the zoo. Berg's last engagement with trump was in twenty twenty when he disagreed him from the platform but he also did call his reaction to the assassination at amp. He said, fight I pretty bad as, uh, in a video. So maybe this recently.

again, because it's going he thinks there's a good chance trump could win the election. I think it's fine. I think it's fine to evolve on this site in market is separately from trump clearly evolved, right? I mean, look at the haircut a lot and I think that says a lot.

But eve, yeah heat you everyone if you get more right. Thing is .

interesting how your philosophy changes more, jack.

you become one of the things that I was thinking about when we are having this conversation just now is like um on net like how good is IT that misinformation is like univerSally be like seen as a bad thing and is like this big concern in our information environment because like the fact of the matter is is now that we evoke allowed, misinform misinformation to be like basically economically bad thing, the government is using that as as a as an excuse to contact and pressure private companies to center speech. And again, like i'm not saying that this information isn't a bad thing, but for me IT really calls another question whether or not again on net me like this introduction of misinformation, which is a recent term basically in in my opinion, I mean, we've always had that term, but only in the past ten years or so did this become a major part of the discourse. Um there are there are a lot of negatives to having that around.

Well, because is for me a question of who decide right? It's not everyone agrees that like fake news is a bad thing, but it's the government policing misinformation. I mean, the government is one of the biest prepayment of misinformation at times.

If you think of all of these, they said during covet that weren't true. And in fact, facebook gives us a great example of this. I don't know if you guys remember, but early in the pandemic, if you posted the lab lic there on facebook.

They would take IT down. They said IT was misinformation. Yes.

didn't force them to do that. I don't know that the .

government may have pressured them to do that. We don't know that .

pressured is a very different word than forced. And I think that a little bit of this is doctor trying to say IT wasn't me. IT was by and .

go get the old man and .

and the thing that really stuck out to me me here was um the so in his letter zuker g also said that they were making a change to their misinformation policy. Basically, what used to happen is stuff to get flagged and then removed from algorithmic distribution. Now what's going to happen and what would happen that is you would go on to third party that checkers and they would say, if I was been information or not.

And then they would either let IT back into the back into the news speeds or suppressed. Now what's going to happen is they're not going to remove IT from aleph distribution until IT IT comes back from the third party fact checkers. The journalists in the washing post specifically, will a remiss was writing about this and he seemed to frame this as like, obviously the end of the world and this was going to accelerate the amount of election, uh, misinformation in the lab.

And all I could think of was the same thing that I thought years ago when they suppressed the hundred by and laptop story, a question I asked repeatedly, which nobody had any answer for, which was, who are these mysterious third party fact checkers? Like, who are they? Who do they work for? Who gives them money? Are we ever gonna a determination, by the way, from them? We never heard back from them when they went and reviewed hundred up top story.

Will mark, what did they say was IT real? Or was IT not real? Can you let us know? Is there like a memo they gave you? I would love to know if they got that one right.

And I would love to know today, like, why were that system itself? Why do we think of that system that has nothing to do with the government, that just has to do with facebook? Why is that system? Okay.

who fact checks? The fact checkers? There are literally accounts dedicated to fact checking snows and political c, because they do some valuable work, fact checking.

But the people, they do have a liberal bias. And IT does show with some of their fact checks, for sure. And I don't I like the approach Better of leave IT up, leave IT in the algorithm and tell IT it's litigated.

But i'm also not happy with that approach, right? I still believe and maybe i'm nave. I still believe in even in the age of the internet, the free market of ideas is the best way to handle things.

Put IT all out there, let people see, let people decide for themselves. I don't really want any benevolent class, whether it's journalist, whether it's fact checkers, or whether it's the government deciding what information i'm allowed to see. I would rather handle IT myself because I don't really trust anybody with that power, to be honest, private or public.

which is why the letter doesn't. I guess the more I am talking about that, the more realizing the letter really doesn't do IT for me at all because the more that i'm talking about the Normal aliasing ly, nothing actually has changed.

Other than Marcus maybe not going to listen to the government, but if his third party fact checkers, and everybody at facebook at the time, and everybody twitter at the time, and all of their checkers, the problem was not that the government was telling them to do, the problem was that they agreed with the government their opinion on what was true. What was not was the same as the people working for the state. Remember, this started not under biden, but under trump, which is the other piece of the story that has been just completely erased from the cannon and like that when I began. And so I I don't know IT like I feel like, I think that dorsey has really done a lot to explain what was going on and to take accountability leading up to really I do just have to .

point out because i'm so happy you raised that point. Trump literally asked twitter when he was president to take down a derogatory tweet from Chris tegan, uh, according at least that's what's been reported so and and I I do believe that was in the twitter files, although I can't quite remember. And I mean, if that as bad as it's a little different than like taking down the misinformation, but if you have a problem that you got, have a problem with both like that also pathetic and snowflake really .

is that pressure? I don't know that that I would have to buy the way of visit person here and now that's fucked and funny never um but I do I wouldn't a pass him really what is what were you thinking about this?

We move into the wire story. yes. So we've related to this. I do sort of wonder if zc is just jumping on the bandwagon now that time has passed and things like calling out sensorily are more acceptable now. Um but on the other hand, a part of me doesn't really care that much because if that is just reading the tea leaves and seize the things like judge to popping gold chains and calling out the government are good things um then that sort of a win in my book regardless. But I do think there is a bit of he's just sort of reading the room and trying to fit the vibe.

But we have that with a lot of things where it's like people who are right too early and then other people come around. Do we get back at them or do we embrace them? And I understand both, right? You kind of ultimately do have to welcome people in, like that's what the council culture people get wrong, right? As if you want a movement to succeed, you can't punish people who convert to you.

You have to actually welcome them ultimately. But I do understand the resentment that like for example, one of the things i've talked about that's gotten me in trouble over the years and since two thousand seventeen, i've i'm on record against kids medical transitioning. That was a very unpopular belief. You would get labelled. All sorts of things are at the .

time you want to be told IT would be what would happen to your content, which is be A.

I literally media matters, got me a essentially kicked out of A A gay man soccer league because they they inform them of my dangerous content. And I was told that my participation made a hypothetical trans member.

the that you you are cancelled or from a game and soccer team.

Yes, I was. And which is the goest thing i've ever heard of.

the guests against nation i've ever heard for sure.

What i'm saying is on that, I feel I was proven I was right too early. We have the castle view. We have the world coming around to this position and is now in part thanks to people like JK roling.

Much safer to say that. And so sometimes the people that have like come around on IT, you you feel presented to them in a way if you were right too early. But I think we ultimately have to welcome people. And I that was a long way of saying, I appreciate duck's evolution, even if I do agree IT is self serving and self dealing in some ways.

Word moving on to wired uh, brand and you are on this one. This is I guess, I made to tee up a little bit um so why had had a lot of shit to say this week about their sort of new what you refer to them as uh, brand and as the new writing billions uh in tech showgirl market injuries and others I believe was mart I was was David sax and others um who had been talking about trumps verifying people a quote the informers verifying people quote .

tell us about IT so the the piece is called trumps new silicon valley supporters really want you to forget he called not these fine people again referring to charleys fill um this is a response IT may be this happen because commoner H Q uh .

which I guess .

is the .

twitter of the the official twitter .

account of commoner SHE three posts on this one well wired calls of the official twitter account the bio of common H Q is ironically providing context that's literally in the bio they tweet an edited clip of that infamous press conference and said seven years ago today um trump said that notice trump said that notice were very fine people um a few days later this guy at why and find his name name is dave he seems to be an irishman a and .

a information reporter writes .

this article he puts IT in his biot this .

information right and is also in his bio on on wired at the bottom the article so he repeats s he basically repeats the mondeo stribling untrue lie that trump was referring to the White supreme es at this rally as very fine people.

Now if if we're gonna until litigating the actual speech, which has been done over and over again, all you have to do is just watch the full clip and it's easily like it's you have to have a IQ lower than sixty five to not realize that what trump s is saying is that there was a valid reason for Normal people to be at that protest, and the reason was because it's valid to worry about the removal of statues. And he goes on and on about this and a back and forth exchange with reporters, you know, for example, he says, you, George washington was a slave owners. Should we removed attitudes about him? Thomas jeffson was a slave, or should we should remove statues, remove statues of him? And so it's very, very obvious that he's making this case. He's like, look there, there are Normal people at this rally and and then he goes on to say, I am absolutely not talking about the White supreme es. I am talking about these Normal people and he closes IT by saying, there were also good people on the left, except for antipho in their black hoods with their bats.

And you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures as you did.

You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down to them a very, very important statue, and the remaining of a park from robbery leak to another day. You know what? It's fine. Your changing history, you're changing culture. And you had people, and i'm not talking about the neonates s and the White nawas because they should be condemned totally, but you had many people in that group other than neonates and White nationalists.

You just read the article and wired and you'll see that this 呃， this irish bug man, this information reporter. Who is also covering the twenty twenty four election for wired wordly um just kind of like, does all this judge to to make IT seem like trump was a friend?

Not what the thing I don't get about this is that trump has set enough like actually crazy, pensive stuff. Why do they always feel they need to lie like instead of just picking the true things he's actually said that they could use against him? I've I never understood .

IT this is the sam Harris line, think I don't know, he listened to him, but he's people have different opinions about him but his big thing is like, yeah this this demonstrates ly untrue lie they keep harping on when there are so many other domains, things that trump is said that you could just you could make into the narrative instead.

I think that they know that trump is popular among black voters. I think .

that .

more more than anything about him. It's not just yes, relatively, but it's also a huge difference between .

him like romney for a relatively still is the black.

It's Better than any republican in any of our lives. You know, matter a lot here. I think that people are under as there are sort of discounting how important that is the democrats and what that means for the democrats. Potentially, they can no longer account on close to, but close to the entire black population voting for them if suddenly there is just more diversity there, like there is in most other racial demographics. And that is why, because when he comes to race, he hasn't actually, like he said, a lot of stupid things, but he's never on on race like what is actual views on race and race relations and things they're not that bad and uh and to be honest about that would not allow them to erode that support, which is what they're hoping to do with something like charlie and are Charles and actually not even just hoping, but they have successfully done that was A I thought that he really said that um .

for a long time but you know I did I A IT the way that .

he actually then set IT but he then to hear him actually say that I was like, holy shit you know he actually even said IT it's I didn't have to into IT that um they were just being uncharitable in their interpretation of what he said they were actually lying by omission what he said uh and I think that's because they are they're they are scared. They're bothered, their nervous.

They know what this means if they don't successfully tarisa him in his movement as very racist. If they they don't have that, it's really hard to defeat IT because a lot of what he talks about is just naturally popular among most working class people, regardless of their race. Rather.

what do you think IT? It's so depressing to me that like, is this election really going to gun come down to relitigating what trump said at a press conference in twenty seventeen? Like can we actually talk about policies like I I don't care who is called a fine person seven years ago, what's your plane to ensure like seven years from now, we're not without a border in the dole .

of world war three? Well, they're both to build the wall. Now that is building the wall, build the world. That's but that is crazy.

She's just in ty vacuum. Should just say anything to get power with all .

of people like I thought her. And the fact that SHE said that that's crazy me, it's crazy is that no one is like shocks. No one is like weight.

Let's what do we really think about immigration? There's lockstep M P, C. Yes, build the wall now and there's not can be a conversation about that. You're not .

going to tell me how you .

change your views times. I don't car what combo thinks about the world. I want to know what the new york times thinks about building the wall.

Are you now in favor of building the wall? Is this a policy per proposal that you endorsing? Well.

I think I think they would argue that like SHE signed on to that legislation that was compromised legislation with republicans, and they gave them the while funding and exchange. They got more asylum fun judges and other things they wanted. So IT was more of like, i'm making peace with the wall.

And IT was less like, we love the wall. Now, is that still hypocritical to sports something you call the racist and an insane news of money? Yes.

but because you protect down to the border and stopped like that is where the immigration conversation was, what was at four years ago, five years ago. And now commons is building the fun coconut crate across the southern border. And like we're all this said, I want to retain that nothing has changed. That's crazy. That's same men.

But any sense doesn't give you a little bit hope that if you just change, if you win hard to mind in the public, they do adapt like they do change when the tides change. So I don't know. I yes, it's kind of this thing like being right to trump is right too early on the wall. He was right too early.

I guess i'm a little skeptic to go that combat is actually forward the wallis, he's just trying to say this to get elected because but like the politics of immigration actually worked to, uh, democrats benefit so i'm not .

social that he would 10 with me .

are sure I yeah I say I don't think .

used to but I think .

the american public has shifted to the right on immigration of IT no.

that's true. I think I mean the demographics change benefits, the decrying s .

in a in a way, yes, yes, not yes.

Everyone's against immigration now. I mean that is that's true everywhere, not even just in amErica or europe. I mean japan, australia, there's no one is down for an open border.

Other then I guess I cause you a court test. Now is the last woman standing. I would like to know what he thinks about commonest bord policy.

But I, L, C.

I would love her on this pop. Personally, I have a lot of questions. That's mait happen Alexander causing cortez um but first we have to talk about power, the verve um this is this is a wild story.

There's a lot here I don't want to get any of the wrong um so i'm going to be actually reading from about just after miss so we just get IT is right as we can as we are currently speaking. Um so power develop is the founder of telegram, which is a message APP, uh, his billionaire, he was arrested in paris over was this over the weekend. Uh, IT was immediately sort of framed as he was being arrested for insufficient spying.

I have framed, but reported as failure to moderate, failure to give information to the government seta um IT was sort of justified is like by the IT was how would I say this? IT was caused taken up by the, I guess telegram heads, the people who are obsessed with telegram. They think it's this the best measure group to use that it's uh encrypted which is not um or I enter end encysted uh today in our ongoing look at european despatie, m Riley is going to break down uh few more details on this story and then i'm going to share the french sort of questions they're asking him.

Yes, I think so. Uh like you mention pel dera fann CEO telegram a who's born in russia um and as a citizen of france russia um some islands in the caribee as well as the U A E um said no he's also totally ripped and has a bunch of like unique of protocols anyway not really well relevant related to me also are .

you tell by the kids the kid yeah he also like a hundred .

kids and we can get into the instagram girlfriend a little bit later in her possible role in this. Um but like you mentioned, he'd landed in paris on saturday um after a trip to as a bijan um he's taken into custody by french authorities. Um there were actually reports that he was going to have dinner with micron that night, which i'm not sure that but that's a rude awakening of so um after why he was arrested.

So as of this recording, there are no official charges yet. Um those, if any, are expected to be announced today um but french authorities have announced a list of twelve possible suspected criminal violations um that he was being questioned over those include um complicity and selling child sexual abuse material in a drug trafficking uh fraud, a betting organized crime transactions and refusing to share information or documents with investigators. Um three of the suspected charges also seem to have to do with crypto, including one that says like provision of cypher graphic services without proper declaration um and the telegram has released a statement saying they um abide by u laws and draw a has nothing to hide. Um meanwhile cron has released a stay and saying that jarves arrest was in no way a political decision um however IT does come amid an increase crackdown on free speech um from europe that we've covered extensively here a power virus um including our friend Terry bag get sending that letter to a elon threatening him over his interview with trump so we will see if any charges do in fact come from his arrest but the fact that he was detained without any official charges at first which is apparently cool in france um especially admits .

this cracking .

yeah um so yeah I guess what we will see um what charges come of this but all of that makes for a concerning situation, to say the least.

I do want to add to sort of very important, I would say, additional factors to consider. Obviously, this has been framed and eating by me at first. I mean, I sort of felt an initial instinctive desire to protect this person who's run a messaging APP right to exist.

It's a speech platform is being arrested in paris. And you hear things like moderation or whatever be decided, as you mentioned, Riley, like they were all those french reasons that he thinks that he was being questioned for one of them was failure to to do cryptology or whatever without a permit. Um you just will hack.

You feel that this is insane and has to be stopped and where will the end? And then you have the guardian economist saying, like what's going to add with mark socker and chains? I mean, they're they're not denied that this is what's driving this ford, but I not entirely convinced that is.

So I want to read a tweet of moxy, marlin, Spike. So moxy or marlin Spike is the founder of signal, which is an enter and encrypt a message eis. The one that I use is a woman.

I think most people in silo values, ah, this could be crazy. If true, telegram messages are not encysted. Frances is trying to arrest the C.

E. O of a russian team. That is, plain text access to every message the french president has ever sent to received telegram messages aren't into an encysted. IT is also a cloud messenger, meaning that all members live on telegram servers rather than the users device. With one query, the russian telegram team can get every message to french president has ever sent to, received to his contacts, every message those contacts ever sent to received to their contacts, every message those contacts contacts have ever sent or received.

Its separate, just playing tax, there are no limits to what they can do like using alem s help go through all the material and pull off the dirt, math the relationships, figure out who's keeping secrets from who is set a for the french politicians in cabinet members. IT is kind of too late to do anything, even if they try to delete all the resources. Now, the telegram team ten mark the messages as deleted so that they no longer display the user, but not actually deleted data they retain access to.

This could get really wild, he says. Um this could just be geopolitics. The russians have information on the french government and macro is understandably pissed. The other one is, as moxy mentioned, not an end and uh in the up is not end to end, encrypt IT which means you could considerably sapin a them for information that is actually illegal like child h like forbidden child got I only want to say on youtube because it's I feel like it's going to model ze and remove us for distortion.

But the most horrific things that you can think of in the world that are all legal that, uh, facebook or twitter, any other free speech, twitter, for example, a free speech platform, would work with the government to give up information on users that were breaking the law. And this really him this way. The french have accused him of doing this.

They have accused him of not giving the information up. They know they have access to the information. And the reason that this company is different than signal, for example, a signature ally, can't they don't have the messages.

That's how IT was built on purpose to never be a compromised by government on something like um I don't help sharing sensitive information between government officials and the press or whatever else. So two things here. One it's like that sounds like he possibly legitimately not only violated the law but repeatedly sort of um I don't know throughout in the face of the law. And then too, there's a government component here that I like a sort of international politics component here of that is very .

harried I know I want to talk on that because if that's true, right, which I believe you I don't know much about that the french government would essentially be taking a hostage, right? They would essentially be taking him hostage. To use him as a chip in geopolitics that would be immoral and wrong in its own right is a totally different thing in the free speech warrior aspect of IT. That would also like not really be OK to do where .

is he but like is he's a french citizen now he got the passport and so at that point it's like are you a hostage or are you a friend citizen being arrested for doing crime in france?

Well, but teleme, the program is not a french company, which also complicated IT. It's not based in france. So is IT actually subject to their jurisdiction?

Well, I an anything that Operates. So I mean, twitter, for example, is subject to the the and follows the rules in all these different countries because i'll get shut down.

But if we ever seen them go after a CEO personally, because I understand shutting down the company, finding the company we've seen you're up, do all this stuff, finding companies, but if they're upset with the decisions of the company to then just criminally prosecute the the C E.

O or the person in charge the company in their private capacity, to me is is unprecedented in what i've seen and what i've covered, right? Because you're taking civil matters into the criminal law, you're taking company decisions and assigning them individually. And IT is more though than just him refusing sep.

As for refusing to turn over a request, which obviously is a different question, this document that the french government put out lists him as complicit in the position of inappropriate illegal pictures of minors, for example, complicit in drugs, uh, sales and all that and what they essentially doing then is assigning to him the blame for the things that people have done on his platform. To me, what are you could arrest the executives of A T, N T. At that point, for the things criminals are texting each other. That, to me, is scary and unprecedented.

We don't know. I would say I agree if that's true. Yes, I think agree that .

we need more information in more details. But part of that is because they arrested him without official charges, which is also fucking .

crazy grants man, they just to their wild over there.

My heart take, sorry to keep going up. My heart take is that at this point, france or england would be lucky to be colonised by america, and they would even be worthy of being the fifty first state.

I wouldn't want them devoting men. I don't want, I don't want. We don't need .

more for like that. What a twice we onze like we end up with the U. K.

I would be doing them a favorite potry.

There is a sort poetry to IT.

Uh, I think it's a definition l for for free speech in europe and maybe the the the western chattering classes either way, like whatever the reason is um and end encryption and these geopolitical concerns are basically confusing and are not going to read well um to like most people uh and but but what I see happening is like in uh to talk about this in a minute, but somebody in the government in the garden, uh I think recently called for you know uh social media executives to be arrested.

This is at the same time as people in britain are actually being arrested for social media posts here. And so the overton window is actually shifting in this direction where we can now you can now not sound insane, at least in europe, for calling for the arrest, for people exercising their free speech. And um I think that regardless of what happening with telegram, uh in reality this is just another not in that direction and um and if you go on, I think guy I want I saw a screen shot of like of a blue sky reactions to the telegram, a lady oh, hundred percent they were like this is a great thing you know .

everybody was a super happy about .

IT oh and I know I dos for me does um on sort of on that front at all. But do you think it's interesting .

how it's IT seems like it's totally separate. The conversation about this is totally separate from the facts about this. And the conversation about this is like, should free speech executives be imprisoned? And obviously, it's divided along expected lines.

But the actual story about this is like there's a lot going on here, both in terms of geopolitics and in terms of just actual straight up crime potentially that is being alleged. And we probably do just need to wait a second to find more. And it's weird. I think I think the stories have actually divorce from each job. Now that the actual story has divorced from the conversation, the conversation is still really important.

En with a lot of stories. Now though, I feel like that happens a lot.

And this one is like people we're waiting to do IT because it's actually as we're seeing, it's it's not being pulled from nothing like you. There are a lot of people who do want people arrested for failure to sensor and failure to spy. I do just want to hit the poly market segment really quick.

We're going to check out the bedding markets. Uh, this is courtesy of our uh pay partnership with Polly market, our friends over there. Um we have some interesting information here. So on the power of raw story since arrest, Polly market has been observing public of robs chances of prison release the poly market odds that public of rob would be released in August at just thirty eight percent this morning, a wednesday at the time of our recording.

However, around nine eastern reports to develop had been transferred from jail to court, causing IT despite to ninety three percent in just two minutes, the french authorities mentioned the prosecutors intended question of all is part of the investigation and extended the time frame for his custody to a maximum possible period of ninety six hours from August twenty fifth to the twenty eighth. It's a huge international thing. You have a power rally. How many passports does this guy I have?

He had like four passports.

Um so one is russian, one is french. Certainly one of know the other one is what one .

is a is study rabia .

E U A yeah the U A so the U A E has statement saying, you know, we're moderating we're model ing the situation closely, which is fucking wild because what that actually means is that you have potentially now the cradle of liberty holding prisoner a like a speech prisoner, while like one of the leaders of the arab world is trying do, I guess, for him so he can free speaking another day.

One thing on the international component, like, just because he's like from russia, I from my understanding the ov is like far from some like russian op like he actually like fled the country after russian authorities demanded he and over um personal data from the APP found IT before telegram. So I know I know telegram .

is like the russian and by government supporters as well.

But so why they .

are using IT? If if it's so easy to just force, uh, telegram executive to release message, that seems fucking crazy the way. Why would you use that?

Maybe they believe that he won't because he .

has refused all the request actually because I saw people going after moxy online and they were saying that signal is run by the N. S. A.

Or something. And it's like, oh, it's all and in all. And ending crypt is just a back door signal.

What is a competitor? So not an unbiased commenter.

Not really a competitive though because it's a nonprofit. I think it's super different when you have like when there is no profit incentive, but they're competing. It's like.

I don't know, I guess I guess my friend you are have a very kind view of nonprofits. Nonprofits are four profits by a different structure. In many cases.

let's say, us to break IT down. Positive robs were a derobe um sorority for fifteen billion dollars. And how much is moxy marlin Spike, the founder .

of signal .

worth? I don't know what was that signal.

Signal as of, earlier this month .

is blocked in russia。 Oh, because IT works. That's the reason that is the reason that the fucking reason.

Okay, B R B switching to signal, actually I don't use either, to be honest.

Uh, I use, I am always on full dislosure. This is not even going to ask spot love signal but also like that that could be on me that isn't they have I know marc offensive, but I just just pushed .

IT and writing anymore.

The woman in charge of them now was one of those annoying google people. um. IT was IT married with whittaker n. She's now just, she's the president .

of the signal foundation, we think my .

cater marr marny.

yeah, shit.

There are some unsavory associations. I will give that to the tin. Four had anti signal people. There are some unfair associations.

Kathern mars though is or was the the chairman of the board of signal?

We all like IT, that's your official al word compare s on that. But I still use that over telegram, which I don't know more to come there. Uh, but we're also kind of leading directly into our next story here. So we're looking at the arms of power being you know stuck abroad for the time being. This pretty decent as with reference. Now a handful of times there were a pair of stories in the guardian that um really celebrated the fact and kind of took the free speech crustal or version of the of the power story and um apple thought and in defended IT and asked for more. So we're going to talk about that uh in our piratical segment.

IT is time for pirate idol. We two with .

we've .

got a bunch of new box joining us today um who have reached out who are ready to smoke down our break out winter last week, was definitely cardiff, just like so many cardiff ads in the comments freaking out about cardiff season. Cardiff ara IT was like they could not get enough of cardiff lot of grand heads to like flying ground. Jessie started out strong and brought a new demographic.

I would say a lot of girl is in the comments writing for Jesse. I likes to see that um I don't know we're going to play by here I goes but this will be have forty, forty folks to come and talk about, uh, why does europe want to jail so badly? American tech executives um we're going to break down that story in the second uh first the rules of the a of paradise, it's going to very simple one by one.

You're each gonna you're going to introduce yourselves. You're going to get your take and uh well, that's happening. Feel free to or while someone is doing their take pill for to duck on them, feel free to go back and forth, feel free to respond question whatever you are here to hang out with us on the pod.

After which uh guest judge bread plumbo will um provide uh provide a thoughts on the um I will provide thoughts on the take probably will be in the form of just my opinion, which I can keep to myself and have never been able to which is why I have a podcast most likely let's get into IT we have to talk about. L man, this one's really crazy so I would rather going to break IT all down for you. But I have been following this pretty closely because I thought I was pretty shocking the other week when there was last week, but I was not that long ago.

Uh, the guardian and publish in opted urging the british government to arrest elon mosque and have him extradited for a in citing a riot, they said he was a tweet. Um now this week in the context of the story we were just talking about, which was the povl of rave, I don't even know if the chaos a another story has been written. Riley, my good men wearing an amazing shirt, I should add a please break IT down for us.

sure thing. So you're topic today, contestants on the heels of telegram founder and CEO paella b being arrested in france, the guardian publishing article calling the arrest a smart move. Uh, the author goes on to say that tech bosses care more about themselves than you and appears to signal that the ow's arrest also warns the arrest of other CEO like you on musk in march, sucker berg, uh, the author states if making an example of dorothy is what IT takes to get tech executives to think twice before acting, that must surely be welcomed.

I mean, they actually said, I will just say, before we get into IT, IT was like A I didn't believe the head like I I can't just fire my mouth off about I actually read steaming pile of shit because there's no way as bad as IT as IT has been framed by an editor who wants clicks IT is IT was worse because they actually IT was a sad sort of, hey, we probably won't be able to arrest ella musk, mark rockburg anytime soon if he used the phrase paul, who is that? Car them off and change or something.

However, an entire piece would just like, how do we get to a world where american tech executives are held accountable by european bureaucrats legally with prison time? Okay, there's a lot to work with here. Um let's start, Patrick. Tell the people who you are, where you've come from um maybe something interesting about yourself .

and then give me a fire. Take A M A, B, C, something interesting about myself. I just spent a month in ukraine going back next month, won't give exact dates for upset purposes hettie. Um I mean, I have a lot of broad thoughts on this about like telegram specifically, but you know I think europe over the last ten years, which is kind of evolved to a place where IT knows that I can innovate or build anything and so it's new instrument of powers just kind of regulate and that its way of remaining relevant.

We saw the same thing with covered uh I don't remember the exact details but they were like coming out guidelines regulating the vaccines for the vaccine were available and like I did not see any european design ii atis even create vaccines and if they were made, obviously they weren't successful because I have learned about them um yeah and that's that's kind of about IT. My my funny take here is that there's a new start of market opportunity here for like offshore plane reviewing if you're attack CEO and you want to avoid landing in paris or european country, that's going to a rescue someone to create like a refusing aircraft Carrier, something market in international waters. So if you're on vacation from my new york to egypt or israel or some should, you can just dog there and not worry about getting arrest of cities.

I mean, we talked about this a little bit in the previous segment. I don't um I don't know that he was even try. I don't there are lot of question Marks. I think i'm this one. I'm not sure why he went there, why he landed there, what's going on? I do know that europe is just I mean, even i'm sort of thinking, fuck to I need to stop going to you am I really thinking that but then again, like I take a lot of risk. I know anything.

Um well, I mean I definitely ree with your points I would love to know what does your hat say? Struggling to actually .

read that is as deep funk and divine intervention.

right? What does that mean? Tell me the story behind that.

I feel like i'm a free influence right now. I have not been paid by the brand is a brand called the quality leasure center L. A.

I should add, by the way, Patrick, Patrick, down the show of Patrick you you were in uh, the ukraine giving your sort of breakdown of what was going on there for us. I was like a couple months ago, I think and now you're an influence er yeah i'm i'm .

going to ask them before you publish this if they would pay me to come on and talk about their hat brand and then hope that they say yes before you post.

So thirty second enter, should we be sending more money and weapons to ukraine?

A I I, yes. So I think uh it's probably when the best foreign policy decisions we made in the last twenty years， which is a hot cake, I know that something we're talking about. I don't know how long we will talk about this.

Do you actually think people need to just literally avoided france at this big? Is the year is you up that bad that we need to just people who are at all controversial run major companies can't go there. I mean, I would be worried, honest.

I think what going to dress?

Tell us, tell us the crime.

Oh, I don't want to because who knows this is an encrypted so I would message .

you on telegram but now i'm not so sure already covered and is the whole other thing um I want more, Patrick. I want more from you. I want more from, I want more from ukraine.

I more from and manual ro rob, tell me, um I know what do you think about the fact that I mean, really it's like the guardi and this is a british journal, first of all. So tend to blame like I tend me. I am the problem.

It's me. I attend to blame american journalists for everything. I do want to draw distinction here between american journalists, embraced journalists as we discuss a little earlier today, even some of the what we think our american journalists are actually just terrible british, or let's say, irish journalist in the case of the wired story.

But this the gardening is a british I don't know they would call themselves the tape but certainly will um and they're kind of out like just up like I know it's weird to have multiple pieces now arguing, but this is definitely a common opinion at this point abroad. Uh certainly british politicians are reading this. European politicians are reading this. They're thinking, you know should be be hard and I guess american deficit would you make .

the right yeah i'm first thing up. I say as a proud irish american is we do not claim that why writer um I think it's it's obvious IT always has been the europe does not have the respect for free speech. They obviously for moment the way we do but there's very clearly sort of political agenda to this because if the so called thought crimes or or the issues with this play performance, how the users are using IT and pavels, I guess, inability to step and do more to contact moderate, I mean, he's not nearly the only person to do that.

And obviously, the other targets of this article, elon mask, mark zaka group, who just came out said, yes, IT was wrong for us to sensor cover a misinformation they're not the only three platforms where bad things happen。 They're not one of the big a accusation is getting lobby at telegram now for Frances, uh, child sex exportation. I mean, I read a story about a month ago about this, uh, visually pat of five hundred years who catch, I don't have you guys seen these.

They care to be to ship out these guys, almost all them find their targets on grinder and tender and these apps. And I haven't seen anyone say, oh, a rest to see you grinder, rest to see tender because there is no political agenda. Those are the places where, you know, people in gaza are spreading unity, israeli message as people in russia spreading to ukraine, messages and voice first set.

These are the platforms were dissidents and people that kind of have anti corporates, anti power voices are the louder. And that to me is the bigger issue here is kind of value behind you know what this guy saying ah you know you can ask more. I have even that right .

because they're talking was you're invoking mark zuker berg, you're talking about the Normal .

establishment majority.

You're talking about controlling just um and I think that the europeans access this before. I think the europeans are spoke after the last election in france. I think they they think that there could be a huge shift in politics across economy, mostly due to immigration.

And I think that they're right. I think that if left to actually some sort of fair democracy, there would be a tittle shift um abroad. And I would have to stop making .

one of the rope ans which I would hate the prime minister two months, and they election and fucked up and now doesn't have a government, is know what to do. I mean.

is there any other walk of life where we so easily or not we, but I guess, the european authorities, in this case. Blame the platform rather than the actual person doing the so they like the idea, right? I mean, if people sell drugs, oh, and they use facebook messenger, do we blame facebook?

If if I use my cell phone, do we blame verizon for the crime? I mean, IT seems like an abortion to me approach, but I I liked your your examples with a grinder and tender. I hadn't thought of those. But do we apply this logic like anywhere else?

Well, you can step up phone calls and things like this. There are phone records.

Rather, the rest of executing .

think they didn't turn over the records.

What about apple? What about the C.

A try would be probably a red if, I mean, if they if they failed to answer recipe a, they probably be assume .

there be some sort of legal, didn't they say, no, you can were not going to give you access to the phone.

Oh, so access to the phone, I am very sure you get access to the sepa, but and you can certainly get access to to facebook mesage with the sapa and you can certainly phone records. We're like records of calls and things, discipline, all of these things for discipline. A you you I thought that was like pretty settled.

I think you you neko see that kind of trip. And though with new tech. So like another parallel here is like a rose l ppa case, which are not saying he was Edison and that he didn't to of jail, but they charged, are you need to getting no sense to two life sentences?

Plus forty years was like double that of al chapo because from a technological perspective, they treated him as the proprio orchestrator executive behind every transaction. The platform, as you know, obviously that hasn't been applied to ebay, which basically superb was ebay for drugs. Um and so I think you're seeing something somewhere play out with telegram right now.

One interest in cava that i'm kind of interesting in seeing people talk about because I just don't know about IT, is I think telegram is not encrypted by default and that creates a kind of an interesting legal situation where the company does kind of have to respond to pena U. S. And in europe for like child porn and drugs and something that um and I think the way that signal can avoid that is it's encysted by defauts and their argument is we can do and do IT yeah um and so they kind of put themselves in that position.

That's so this is on the public case, you're correct. But I think the broader thing here, which is very so it's interest resting about the guardian, M S, is that they we're not talking about the realities of the power case as you worked about to and as we did earlier the episode.

What they were talking about was the kind of what quickly became the free speech crusaders version of the power case which was like he was and I said that pejorative it's not the roof i'm a free speech crusader yeah free speech I am Crystal for right now um but a lot of us were very quick to be like this man was arrested for the crime of you know insufficient censorship and moderation and tomorrow ly, that's part of IT. I do think um the guardian peace was saying there. I think there's an argument to me that that that's not entirely true that that there's like a lot this is a complicated story. We're going to learn more today actually the french um governance going to release the charges. Um I think it's probably part of IT, but the garden case was just like the garden was just like, yes, and that's great and we should have do IT more like there should be more of this IT should be the IT should be facebook IT should be eba musk um that is yeah that's fucking that scary to me that that is a Normal thing that you can say online in the year twenty twenty four and not be racial ed into outer space for also by I mean, I guess what I said I didn't take on this in the daily I was can you imagine the automatic rage with which journalists would respond if ela must suggested jAiling a journalist um IT would be in you would have never seen anything like that in your life and this is just falling on the death here you going to say something this extreme as mark sucker berg should be in jail rap before you move on I didn't uh, have to injury yourself tell the people who you .

are sir rome gravy and reporter the daily caller um I I worked there and happy beer.

You know and i've got to say I do like a real reporter in our myths sugi was that and we certainly I don't like to do a lot of research. Clearly I like to just fucking say things and how people say, no, you're wrong and here are the facts. It's just my way.

A great moving on. Um Molly, who are you? Where you from?

Yeah um okay. So i'm Molly um I work in D C. I also have a news letter called sorry um i'm not evil um I don't know why when we first met you thought I was evil or something.

I said .

that yeah evil.

I'm always worried about i'm a suspicious of everybody who I online. My assumption is that it's that actually game of thrones thing where mersey leister says to her son her son's like the evil son is like, are the starks our enemy and survey says everybody who's not as as the enemy. That's how, that's how I that's how I survive this internet health cape but I know know you and I don't think OK good.

Um well, okay. So this is a big topic and it's also like super dance um given the context that you guys already talked about IT in the segment and kind of broke IT down um based on the actual like allegations and criminal activity and like all of that, um I guess what we're going to talk about is like the construct of a journalist asking to jail a very big media exact okay. So pavel is like what they say is the mark zuker burg of europe.

Okay, so he fled russia. He ended up in dubai. He has like four passports of hundred kids. Like he's always shirtless and is just like this extravagant, you man. And so I don't know if that's why france is like jealous, and that's really from .

the nation of skinny fat. That's a good I like that take yeah there's so jellous.

I don't know if that's why they're jealous. But anyways, in a more serious note, it's kind of like a weird delineation of like how media has just kind of taking this road and they just want to be billionaire tors and continue to regulate and take people down. You'd think like cancel culture would be over, but I don't know if this is like matter of media getting so constrained.

I mean, there's bankrupts like all the time like these companies are going under. None of these journalists are paid well. It's a hard environment. You have to continually put out hot like heat pieces and just take people downing. That's kind of what has become of this. Now trying to take down more billionaires, whether that's elon moser mark sucker berg is another thing um elon mosque uh for example I keep pulled double x out of brazil because you know he was actually um like I think he they were like talking about arresting him there. So like this is not like employees.

I believe so I think they shut down their office there because the brazil and may fired everybody because the brazilian government was threatened to arrest x employees. And so he was like them, we can have employees in in brazil, is that simple? But I think I think the the platform might still be .

there until I shut up down. Yeah yeah. I mean, like there's there's so many different ways that this piece like could go or the conversation around IT because there's also like mark success writing a letter to jim Jordan and you actually talking about censorship in the us and how he was pressured to talk about covered in a certain way or sensor IT and like more that comes out of that.

So it's there's like a lot of big factors that have been driving media and the usage of free speech or whatever you want to call IT and how we're going to be positioning IT. Um I would say like it's it's a very hot to go after these big tech titans. And I don't know if it's because they're a huge target, but a IT just kind of makes journalists look bad.

Like IT, it's like not a good story. Like i'm just surprised, like we're even talking about this honestly. Like when I saw that, I was like, but isn't the guardian kind of like a trash magazine? Like I don't know what that is.

I when I was in college. So obviously professors are ninety percent communist st. And this guy he ran arts, our social sciences department um and he was awesome, is a brilliant professor but he was a fucking in communist he did a lot about china.

He was always telling us about, I mean, the guardian was straight up, is like here, the different sources you could read, the guardian was one of them. And he said, it's a little bit left of center, but that's good for you. He said, but that's good for you. I never thinking at the time like, and I was at my most radical back then, radical left and I always thinking like that doesn't sit well with me.

You just said that a ww that feels a little bit um I don't know, like indoctrinating anyway but yes, it's a legitimate I I think it's not I call this a tablet but I think that the thing that's shocking about the guardian doing this is that it's IT is legitimate now these are these are opinion pieces and colonists it's sound like reporting but I don't know I was report on a request like the request the ideology of the paper is delivered through the OPEC section because it's curated. And that's just, I mean, that's how you do IT partly it's done and then you have to into IT what the coverage means. But for me, this is a very big deal.

This is happening and is a very big deal that knows talking about IT in the media um it's wild to be talking about arresting people for any reason. Um and then again, I mean, maybe there's like the truck of at all what you guys make of that. Like is this just the fact we are we so desensitized to calls for arrest? I mean, trump is being tried right now in the middle of election or he's about to be given his um his sentence right? Like has that just changed the bounds of acceptable speech in such a way as calling for the arrest of .

people you hate is totally five mile the ardia eight days ago and he has been slain of five. And no IT is a youtube, pretty popular youtube uh certain news content, tongue and cheap type deal. And they had a mass reporter who.

Only reveal his first name and his guardi and journalist was insects and he was like, I am a real journalist and he was like, fuck you, fuck your mother like, fuck anyone who support to you like unhanged right? And and I kind of represents what people the guardian think of themselves as journalists like. They put themselves in a panic since the trump error.

Journalists, not people, my location. But many of these mainstream levering journalists do themselves as the guardians of democracy. We have the keys. We are the gatekeepers.

We will interpret for you what you can think about the news you know, by and he sometimes mixed up his word he's this is what he meant to say like they kind of have this a latest fear of what journalism is in who they are and broader sphere. So this is kind of indicative of that mindset. That's like, oh, these people are letting you see information. You know, must mark oco, bert pavel the letting you see information that you shouldn't have access to their they basically think of most of us as children who don't have the intellectual capacity to understand information.

I think what kind the guardian is, no, this is a little bit of my zone, but my perspectives as in america, is that they were always like the bastions of uh you know on the forefront of like leaking government .

information. Uh, for that .

they collaborate. Vicky leaks opinions on wiki cide like these are very anti government actions that will certainly lend you on list as a organization of interest. And you know I think where I just reflects that traditional publications now of you big tech as a bigger actual threat to their relevancy in their existence than government, which is kind of a very interesting reversal to the point where they are now kind of in government, is now almost against big tech.

What is literally alias. We've seen, in the case of australia, the canadian australian government, the canada government, the california government, all of which are trying to pay little they pay their money, taxpayer money, to keep reporting whatever garbage they are reporting on. Um math, welcome back. We all thought that you had been arrested for crime. Think because you are reporting live from the continent of europe um tell us a little bit about yourself and what brings .

you here and then i'm going to need to take hello I I go based north man whatever prolific a ship poster and part time VC and always inds of different things and yeah i'm i'm coming from the front line of the race war in britain constantly on the threat from the two .

T A care and what kind of think .

welcome is completely run like I think.

well let's start with there. Are you nervous? Is this self is happening .

in yeah no sorry. I've just like um basically .

with the garden .

in this article, uh yeah the cloud that I threw myself with on twitter itself, i'm pretty real family racist to our journalists like kind of standard and the gardien have not been making IT any Better for themselves. That means said I ve recently become acquisition with some actually really good british some yeah and I can I can I can say the work because some of them, some of my best friends I do, but then not making any Better of themselves. And I think that the guardian have been rabbit ed recently about Patrick, you said to big tech and in my stuff and this is just another look in that chain and they know that they're on the way out, if not already out the door in in most of the ship and ratings and attention and what not um the patch is actually really a good point that there has been a sort of shift in the polarity where now the government is their life because they have a bigger enemy in big tech which is taking everything away from them。 And journalists you know british journalists absolutely are just attention seekers and all they're gone to do is try the very best to they make maximum use of that snarky smugness and to be like, you know fucking in on mask that guy sucks I know what's right um doesn't matter what he does he sex and i'm corak because i'm magian's and I going to give you my opie and they got an our bunch problem.

I just think that the rational I I think that their anger towards tech is rational. It's based in the correct understanding of shifting power in the world. Uh, tech has changed the game for not only power generally and wealth generally, but also speech.

Like who gets to have a platform look at all was talking on this podcast. IT was hard to have a radio show thirty years ago. IT is no longer hard. Anybody can get out there, build an audience very quickly. Media .

hates yes.

I listen. There are good. There are people who are have huge audiences um who also hate IT you like who actually can compete and hate IT.

And those had to be ideological people because they understand that with the power shifting the way that is, it's not shifting in their favor. And once people are allowed to speak um they're sort of very little gated world of ideas is very much at risk. Now of course, they're are living with the state for two reasons one of economic and the other is just like that's what their ideology is.

Near times, even before all of this new shit online was happening, the near or times was defending the iraq war, you know, like incessantly. So they've always ban on the side of the state. And whenever they have not been on the side of the state and um I yeah I know I guess I wrote a piece called with the state way back when the ella was taking, he just taken over twitter.

And my sense is like the tech is just a it's like resets power. And if you understand that and you understand that this is a new crop of elites potentially, then you're threatened. It's it's war and they're they're right.

It's like there's this phrase of the walkshall correct. I guess the people are always bandying about and that this feels like a version of that like the journalists are actually correct. We can't really go you're so stupid.

You should be threatened by elon mosque or something. It's like you should definitely be threat by ellam ask you should definitely be threat by mark socker bird um and so I understand why they're calling for the arrest. The question I have now is like, will the europeans actually try some crazy ship with these founders?

I mean, up until now it's been the eu dude, the bug guy, three btn running around trying to find them into a oblivian. Um could there be something more? I don't know, jacon ian. Like are we looking at twitter people being arrested for failure to comply with whatever free speech Jordan's.

So do you think like the larger narrative in question here is, okay. So the eu doesn't like america, doesn't like innovation. They've been stagnant for a while, if not declining.

And so first they go after us with fines. I think there's like over like fifteen to thirty billion dollars and fines against us companies. Now their next move is going after imprisoning U.

S. Tech founders and like that the next move like what is the and go here. I mean.

I think they are going to try and to define, and this is a great question. And I I think that they're gonna wait and see, pay the fines. I don't see any world in which elon mosque is giving theory proton money.

I don't think that's going to happen. Although he has IT, I know that twitter has the one need to give him, and I don't think that if they had the money, he would give IT a and it's a game of chicken right now. So is a question of like are we going to pay the fines or not? And if we don't, are the company is going to be shut down or not? And I think probably that's the direction that we're headed.

Um especially trump gets s in office because I think that trump is going to be throwing down the gala where IT comes to retaliate, tory terror policy and things like this. You know like, oh, you're fucking with all of our tech companies. Well, now we're fucking with all of your tech companies.

Even canada is doing that. I mean, did you see that canada is doing the what is a hundred percent tariff s on chinese electric vehicles are on the heels of limited the amount of like third world low skilled workers. It's like, how is this like the world is changing very quickly. The politics of north .

amErica volk rapidly.

Yes, even. I mean, that guy who's running was eating the apple was .

his name .

the apple I love, I love, I love apple guy. And apple guy was called accuse. Ve like fashion for that. Like, oh, this is mean acid top, which is, you know, that's a dog we sell, if you will, for fashion um and and he was just spit in fact like very casually um anyway that's that um I guess yeah no idea I want to get to end other than I think I think trade wars are most likely and maybe this is just maybe a good IT. This is a good indicator of that, right? Like you see that the heightened speech, that sort of what we saw with china, we saw heightened speech like this heightened doric like really sort of aggressive retour c and the trade war. And maybe we're finally heading towards some kind of trade war with euro.

Well, that's I think that's actually when the sad thing about this from a geopolitical perspective is I think in a geopolitical context, western countries have forgotten the value and it's going to mean possible.

This is about being clichy or trade, but we forgot to the value of being a free speech, first nation and culture um and the comparative vantage that that provides you over countries of russia in china like we're basically responding to you know their nation's e involvement with the russian and election claims or tiktok that by just kind of instituting their policies right we're becoming more tony an we're becoming more processor ship uh when we should be leaning the opposite direction but also by the way, in an offensive context, like maybe this is my headache on this one. But um we should be like funding cyberia independence groups. We should be distributing flash drives to vigers in china. We should be um you know encouraging pro democracy for free speech groups are in all these countries. Instead we're just kind of on the back foot.

Hello clinton in this was I mean fifteen years ago, I think said every single american tech company should be trying to force through american, american free speech norms. That was what the democratic platform was under Hillary not too long ago. Maybe there was a little bit longer.

Might have been like two thousand a day that was yet. So around that uh in in a very short period of time, there's just been a total evolution from that point. The the idea was that we would use our sort of soft power and economic power. To Normalize our values abroad. And uh and the opposite is happening now, especially things like easy and charter that relationship there of the MBA where we're sort of by way of economic forces absorbing their norms.

I mean, our movies gets censored so they can appear in chinese .

markets rather than.

rather than telling them, no, fuck you. We're going to make our movies that we want and you can either run them and buy them or not .

shut out out of time cruise by the wave for keeping the flag of taiwan on his jacket and getting top and ban on in china. Pretty, pretty base.

You are the crazy cold stuff.

I'm in favor .

of the cold stuff. Think, eat that. I get bleach. Keep IT interesting.

I want more religions. If someone wants to be a scientologist, and like, you're promise the planet or something after you die, I think that's cool.

I also think there is a lot of abuse that happens in IT, though it's the problem.

It's not just the that happens. And I was raised catholic, happened to me personally, but I know that of use happens in all of the time for religions.

not with the .

same degree.

And yeah we're like, I don't know about that man maybe right. Um I just think the medical lorian thing they have there is like with like the testing of view and stuff that that's interesting. I think we're going to have I was thinking about doing santos gy texture at a red car.

Yeah, I want to be tested.

I want to see if I want to see how close to the their feet. And some, some medicine is a star wars. I want my seats tested.

And if you're scientologists out, they're listening. Actually, i'm interested in having my theaters tested. I'm not interested enjoying the cold just yet, but I would subscribed to the newsletters so .

you should even call that that they're going to be literally gona email you and demand .

a correction and a retraction.

What they do that i'll publish IT and then will will have another story. And they they have an entire care in P, R department that goes after people who criticize them. They they do all work to crazy stuff to their critics.

So I think I, everyone else bread go and brad dki for .

joining um as a guess host this week um what is a mat? Rob Patrick moi, any final words before we before we around this episode out.

I say that I E U acceleration is in the the things that they are doing are going to directly lead to the complete downtown one fragment mentation. So I want that to happen as .

best as possible that I like, which bring back to european segment. So I rap into you.

just Molly mention jealous y of pavel's body and you know, the skinny, fat and friends. I just think it's worth pointing out that micron did have pavel in twenty eighteen and two friends to court him to move telegrams, offices and be based at of friends. So jelly is certainly a factor here .

to cord him the his body and to cord him and allegedly in france to say that his wife is actually a man.

exactly.

So you think he's gay? M, S is like a, this is like a, there's a sexual component to all of this.

I think he he thought was good business to have telegram friends. And also, if you got a handy packed y on the side, he would.

which who can blame the man? Anything else? patric? Mollie.

uh, just based off of that, I have nothing to do with that.

Don't bring me in.

My last words through my boy povl, through my boy Russell break.

that's yep. And free.

free, free speech .

and free speech. Tell us who you like in the comments. Tell us who I don't know what you wish.

Ed, we had talked about. Tell us what you want to talk about next week. Tell us what you think about possible being arrested and the threat of elon being extradited.

Um just tell us something. It's been real oodbms. E catch you next week.