TikTok Loves Hamas, Pumpkin Spice Misogyny | Pirate Wires Podcast #21 🏴‍☠️
56:47 Share

There is a dramatic skew, and overwhelming majority of the tech talks are in support of palestine or highly critical of israel. Young people eighteen to twenty four believe that the terrace tacks on ten seven were justify is a terrace tack in america. Tomorrow are humors celebrating on tiktok. Let us take a pause from that for a minute. I want to talk about pumpking spice lot.

SHE doesn't think too much about everything. He goes home. SHE watches the bad filer. She's happier than anybody working at the wash completion. E's happier me.

Welcome back to the pod guys. We have a wild kind of range of topics today um where to start with, with tiktok and get into sort of the I bias on that platform. What be accounting for IT? You know are the chinese spying on us and controlling us? Or is this something else?

Uh, we've got a few kind of fall topics to break down. Let you get into IT. Um I want to start with are tiktok you're on tiktok.

IT is obvious that there is a tremendous bias on the platform in one sort of cloud world direction. I think I don't know. Maybe I only you didn't kind of hit up with your experience on the platform.

Um my sense is always is just that the demographic s is just Young people in yg. People are sort of generally stupid and that's kind of what you get on tiktok. More recently this week, there were a flurry of stories surrounding how israel palestine was playing on tiktok.

And there is a dramatic skew in overwhelming majority of the tiktok are in support of of palestine or highly critical of israel. Naturally there is the question of this just tiktok. So this question always comes up.

It's like how much of this is authentic? What about these bott farms? I H wrote a piece for the industry this week where um more is uh was IT was that what was the guys name again?

Jeff Morris.

jeff Moore. Thank you. So so jeff put a huge thread together, uh, where he kind of takes apart, not takes apart, where he shed light on first the overwhelmingly uh pro palest ian perspective on tiktok and then he suggests that a lot of this has to do with boat farms and he says, I think his argument is like, you know, the more a the more IT seems that people are supporting palestine, the more people want to they want to support palestine to give attention online.

I I think i'm kind like half there with him on this. I think that's just obviously true in terms of psychology and how social media works when there's a topic that's getting a ton of attention um there as I think people naturally sort of trying understand what is the consensus position. And more often than not, we don't think through these things.

We just adopted a consensus position. If that seems like palestine, then maybe more people we pro palestine don't think that has anything to do with bots. I think that actually the thing that knowing really ever wants to talk about on these platforms, they they just have occurred to them the demographics of these platforms.

We are speaking english, and americans are not the only people who speaking english. And these companies are all they exist all over the world on tiktok. And so well, I start twitter. Actually, everyone is blaming tiktok and twitter.

I was dog piled over the maybe a few days ago um by just like hundreds if not thousands of pakistanis and it's like english speaking muslum uh is a muslim majority country uh like ten percent of them I think speak in uh I believe that was ten percent of to look at the number speak english like this is this this population online is is just like it's not american. We kind of assume that IT is and we look around for consist american opinion, but we're not really getting IT. This is what this is what a global information landscape looks like on tiktok, in particular, gets even crazy.

I looked up the numbers of sort of the most populous, the largest populations on tiktok. AmErica is number one. And I knew that it's over one hundred minutes might be close, like two, one hundred two hundred thirty million indonesia IT is as a hundred million people on tiktok that is another muslim majority country so i've been wondering, just like how much of our perspective of this conversation online not just i'm tiktok but also want twitter um also on a instagram, is is actually being shaped by not by even americans. I think there are some americans, but this is mostly just like a global conversation that's happening right now. And lot of IT is taking place in the english language. So you know how much of IT is is really like the kids today are crazy um that we do have now a some polling that suggests a slight majority of Young people eight to twenty four believe that the uh terrace attacks on ten seven were justify not that palestine was right but I said the terrorist attacks on ten 7 we're justified but I know where are you guys on this in terms of the demographics？ So how much how much of a role do you think that plays in shaping discourse just generally um and uh and how much of IT is you, the C C P, manipulating us from behind the curtain?

Just like a another matter of context, they just look that up. There's literally one point eight billion muslim in the world and their sixteen million juice in the world. So we've got like a massive different to list just in terms .

of the population conversation that and I I, I sort of forget the population of muslims. I think that the more important thing is the population of english speakers. And then where they exist in the world, there are three hundred thirty million americans.

There are like one point two billion english speakers in the world. So automatically, like most of the conversation, if we're on english speaking platforms, is not gonna in an american conversation that might look that way. IT might seem that way to you because you're american. I'm in an american and we just assume that everybody we're talking to his american but in general it's not and in like how many of them uh you know have very strong positions on this shit uh that in american Normally wouldn't yeah I mean.

I think if you're like a Young person, it's uh you know the situation is not really analogous that like the actual situation, like what's happening isn't really a knowledges. But the the the way that feels online is very similar to like deal um and twenty twenty like during the after the George's slow thing where I was like you feel obligated to say something and like everybody always saying something, everybody is is protesting. So there's like this um sort of thing we are like what I Better do something you know I mean otherwise do you we're going to think that I I like don't care about like dead palestine, an children or dead black people or you know whatever the case .

or dead juice because there are planning people demanding that as well. I mean, this is a weird I think is very IT feels similarly IT feels equally maybe historical to the B L M. stuff.

But it's significantly different in that black americans are a part of america, have been in amErica longer, the most White americans. So like, the history is of of like White and black amErica is inextricably linked. And this stuff was huge because IT actually is in acute american like issue.

IT is its ours. Palin and israel is like, truly not know. There are some foreign policy piece of this where amErica did ba lab, but at the end of the day, this could use if you after fingers and vanished IT wouldn't affect amErica at all.

So IT IT really does feel like people are kind of like quickly adopting something that a small minority of people in amErica care a lot about. And then when you go online, there is this perception that this you have to care about this. And I again, I think I go back to the thing that is most interesting to me about this is that most people online are not american.

So how much of that and not just on this issue, right? I don't really. And just like a high level comment here, I don't were not be the four of us.

We're not here to solve israel palestine. We don't cover israel palestine. We know anything about israel palace in like I am interested in how these things are resonating at home and what IT says about americans. When you look at sort of the way we react things, i'm interested in how americans are being influenced in different directions in in perhaps why but like I like we're not going to solve is real palisse. But on on the other piece of IT, you know how why people are commonly these opinions and they're rapid and they're very intense. Um where else maybe is that is that breaking down for us? Like in what other dimensions might the like foreign perspective perceived as the domestic perspective might, I don't know, confuse us or or working in a way uh in in manner against us and against our our best interest.

Well, I mean, this is not exactly giving another example, but just to sort of lend some data to the the claim that, uh, Young people are forming have hazard opinions on this conflict that pull that is getting cited where a slight majority of Young people think that the ten seven attack was justified.

I was looking at the data and their responses that same demographics responses to other questions that were asked are pretty incoherent even in that context. Like that demographic was also the only age group that thought that law firm should refuse to hire lost who supported him? moss? Um and they this is always the thing .

with polling isn't IT you did that if you asked like ten questions IT IT really, really silly.

yeah. And they they think that israel, they do think that israel has the right to defense of a majority, think that israel the right to defend itself even with air strikes on civilian areas, provided they provide warnings. So it's people been making a lot out of this, like fifty one percent of Young people are supporting. Young americans are supporting homes. But I think that IT really what the data shows is that fifty one percent of Young people in amErica don't know what the fuck they think about any of this or more.

Yeah, higher.

And I think to me with my experience on tiktok, that kind of that kind of validates what i've experienced on the APP, which is basically just the tiktok more than any other social media platform views IT kind of silos you in whatever world you choose to get into. And so now, for example, when I was learning german last year, I was my whole tiktok feed was just like german grammar content. Um and I think that for me it's difficult to say whether like I don't know if these american teens are consuming content on tiktok that's like made by pakistanis or indonesians um my senses that a lot of americans are consuming content made by americans .

um yeah yeah I think it's I think if you like IT, if if if other people like what you're producing that rocky ts IT up to the the trend。 So the more popular content generally you get more of.

everyone gets more of yeah yeah that makes sense. Um I mean, I just think that tiktok is kind of this chaos platform essentially where you can fall down whatever a rabbit you want. I do think obviously, there's an element of chinese propaganda because it's a chinese company and the ccp like controls every chinese company more less directly.

And has no absolute power to to sensor and whatever get content off the platform. But I think that the actual user experience tiktok to me seems much more chaotic than just know these people are being brainwashed in a kind of straw forward way um to you know believe either certain C C P. Believes or just accept the kind of majority opinion shape by non americans. I think that tiktok is chaotic. And like what might happen, what might explain some of these poll results is like maybe these people were being fed a lot of content about the ten seven attacks being justified um by palsy and grievances and so they sort of rapidly formed opinion on but then they didn't think through any of the other contextualized questions that they were subsequently asked in the poll and provided completely incoherent exam uh responses um that's one way to reconcile how a majority can think that the attacks were justified and that people who support the attacks should not get hired by law firms. That doesn't .

sounds like that chaotic to me. That sounds the way that you described is especially you are antiquated about learning german, makes me think or makes me more convinced that tiktok is an information super weapon. Like if you can if you can fun all a specific type of content with precision to a person and they are they get addicted to IT.

Um that there seems to be a lot of potential there um to to change people's minds on a massive scale. I mean, just imagine if what what what happens when we are actually in in a in a connected conflict with china over taiwan, what's happening on tiktok. I mean, why would .

he not maybe be where war in china and tiktok is still not banned? If we're a war with china and tiktok is still not banned, we deserve to lose at that point.

We are all dead because they have nuclear weapons. And so we like it's like, I think tiktok is a waste of our concerns .

of I don't think I I think it's a lot of our concerns.

I'm actually caught yeah I think so the real thing I think this is maybe want to one of the really craze making or craze inducing elements of the entire palace um is really conflict is it's not so much the attack is that so the attack on ten, seven, anything that followed IT specifically, it's october seven. It's that terrace attack is where everything began as with a warm like recognize that where people americans are first tuning in.

And when you look at that and people have wildly such wildly different perspectives on what that means that makes people americans at home, especially because it's a sort of generation also also like older people looking at, Younger people thinking, holy fuck, what do you believe? And I think that is that is much worse to the average person who doesn't know anyone in israel or palestine le. It's an abstract horrible thing but it's it's much more abstract than like you know your Younger cousin is you know a saying ala oc bar and shit in like out there waving palestinian flags and celebration the day after the attacks that is like, wow, what what is going on and in the context of at a war with china, I think I go back and forth on this.

You there's a um sort of me right now if if there were if they were in a terror attack in amErica today, rumors would be you know on tiktok dancing in celebration of IT by friday. We're like, let's say, a few days from now. Um I think that's probably true for a lot of Young people.

I don't think he would be merely as dark as as IT is in this case, because in this case things are sufficiently far away that you can abstract them into your easy, little like black, White, divide your a press or oppressor, or divide your western civilization verse, whatever the fuck you would call the rest of the muslim world divide um I would call the dark pages because a hoder conversation. Uh, I think it's easy to do that if I was here, if it's new york city, I don't know mabe mabe. I just don't want to know. Maybe I just need to believe that if there were another september eleven, we would all be on the same page that IT was bad.

I mean, we saw we saw in the in the immediate aftermath of the october seventh attacks a yield professor saying that like settings weren't citizens or something like that. I really was within hours and IT IT came out. I mean, I think the disco sort of interpreted that I think gravely so the settings, that word colonisers, that word simply just referred to um White people for the most far. So I think I think on a terrorist attack on american soil, I don't see why you have any different of a reaction on twitter and on tiktok than the one that we saw october seventh may be. Am just pessimistic.

I'm hoping that you're pessimistic. I don't I know resident.

they crossed that they cross on october .

and in a terrace in amErica tomorrow, next week are are humors celebrating .

on tiktok but like .

an islam dropping a nuke in new york city, a dirty bomber. Something um so it's it's another islamist, uh uh is long I can never fuck get the word out. I can't pronounce IT so terrorist praising, oh, dirty bomb in new york city. What is you were saying about IT next week?

Uh, I don't know. I know you would have like you could find anybody on internet who would say anything. I think there be there would be less like direct praise and more like, uh, what bill mars said after nine eleven and got lost to show for which is like all it's like the chick's coming used like that .

type of yeah there be a love of Green Green wall sort of like, well, let's think about the reasons that they dropped dirty bomb in new york like river we not in Loring was it's a little .

no mean so we got to think about long term consequences. But no, I mean, I think there I mean it's in IT was in bad taste for bill marr to say that my after eleven but like I mean, we did like we did not like think of the long term of like arming isas in the midday like that probably in bridge respect was a very bad idea. But like I think you'll you would see a lot more of that, a lot more of like, oh, well, we should think about how we got here, which is like, you know, to keep IT classes, you wait a will you wait for the smoke to clear from new york before you start thinking about like what's the history that what is here.

And IT is also to give the Green walls and the bill mark directly following that a little bit of credit that is significantly different than celebrating, right? And we and most of the palace and flag waving, which, by the way, i've said this before, I don't like any flag waving in america. That's not an american flag period.

That's my rule about this like, I don't want to see israel flags. I don't want to see palestine an flags. Someone was like, what about same Patricks? I like, you know what? I'm evolving on that issue.

I think maybe shot IT down. I don't want to see any other fucking countries flag as the olympic or and even then in in america, you're waitings. So what? No, get the fuck.

Go home. I don't want that here. But on the I those to go back to the sort of like the bill of IT all, they were not actively celebrating. Most palestinian flag wavers are not celebrating. There were people who were celebrating a lot of them. And that I think that is what like I understand anything being complicated, I understand, even if annoys me and fruit strates to mean that someone wants to jump up immediately following a brutal, horrific attack can be like, well, there were that this happened um but I I just very different than someone being like, you know how yeah B L M calling them freedom fighters with the like I can parachute ts and should like that if that if that happened following in american teratol ack that feels .

like cultural n game to .

me you know how do you maintain a country? You have a significant number of people in your own country who are celebrating um your own brutal attack. So what do what is your perspective roughly similar? Ver, what do you how many customers you think that would be celebrating?

I actually I could imagine like a vocal radical minority actually getting out and celebrating on the streets. Um I mean, I think that I might take with rumors and all the discourse about summer being radicalized is always that I think we're giving them way too much credit for being like history ally and politically literate. I think that a lot of people are basically just forming their opinions based on their friends instagram stories. And one thing I would add is also like the majority of well, the twenty five percent of american tiktok users are are between ages of ten and nineteen. So it's like actually.

what is that generation called?

I don't I don't know. Actually.

I can't have another one that I have to worry about jesus.

yeah but I I think that I can imagine that like most consumers would be actively celebrating. But I do think that given how radical some of the the protests scot, during B A, M, where you really had people saying that, you know, the entire enterprise of amErica was dislike doomed racist state that had only contributed negative things to the world, I can see that group coming out again. And and then if IT becomes sort of like fashionable in a certain social circle that I can see like those rumors joining the protest, I don't think IT will be for a coherent historical historical political reasons though you .

mentioned most humors and in is funny, you know we give summer too much credit or ever there's a mean going around. It's that bad, man me with, like the bme character would like to hand out stretch and IT says boers with misinformation from facebook. And in the smaller eye is hand out stretches as summer, like full of misinformation from tiktok.

They are this is like a higher level that boomers and zimmer's to me are the same thing. They are they they have similar impulses. They have similar like cultural uh, when IT comes to like like when he comes to any kind of hot button like political issue, I feel like they're dividing in similar ways.

But the real big funny one to me, technology where we say that um we have this idea that Young people are always teaching older people about technology that comes from millennial because there are so many computers everywhere all of a sudden and millennial in their teens were teaching their board. Parents had a plug shit in and turn things on, and week were learning and all the machines were different. And that was very as they get very weird environment, we were all kind of like piece IT together.

We went um zoom s like they have that branding for some reason they have this like. I think because of the milenio s they have the brain, which there's an assumption that that I have this assumption like I don't have this stupid new APP works. Let me ask you, they have no idea.

You guys have no idea. You don't know how anything works. So it's a very you guys are the same. The name is perfect.

I love IT, but on instagram, you know, we've been our we're learning what to think from our friends on this gram. I think that is human nature. I think that's how we all absorb information, which makes something like tiktok or or twitter in the wrong hands. If with a male velan actor actually, you know aware of this fact and using IT to drive narratives makes IT potentially very, very, very powerful and very dangerous .

in in some ways it's actually, I think Better. The people are doing all this should do on the internet, because like their use, I need this phenomenon like an exists to real life historically, or IT would be like in bars and they would be like reading about some news story were like someone from x ethnic group, like killed someone from there at the group and they were like everybody in the bars just like, yeah, fuck though. What's kill of all and they just like go burn down a neighboring like, that's like, that's like the whole like history of, like, D, C, S women like the sixth surgery. It's like that happened and like like the irish various places, as they're quick to remind you.

yes.

we're seeing I see this out.

You're saying you're make you're maybe hoping that is only happening online and that does. If that we're true, I would agree that, that would be Better. It's not we just saw the mob in russia, you know, going after the .

I see this on tour.

And where did that happen? Where do they get those ideas? Where do they get excited about IT? Where do they spread the information? Where do they did coordinate on where to go? That all happens online through A B, L, M.

two. I remember sitting in in my apartment while the riots were happening and the looting, I would say, let's say, not say riots. I say there was looting specifically one day.

And I thought to myself like, um let me go on on twitter and and see what i'm back and is this is the old days of twitter where it's like curate the topic saying IT was all very clearly probe. I watched two different locations become a conversation in real type. One was one a creek in service skill, and one was beverly hills.

And the question that was being asked again and again and again on twitter was, why are we in our own neighbors? Ods, we should be in these neighborhoods. And that became a mean, and they became both of those locations became trending topics.

Both of those trending topics LED directly within six eight hours to actual looting in the streets. And that was, I mean, one of my early, I found that just really fascinating, terrifying and an important and I think they're going to see that plays out forever. Those are the real time, like when your emotions are really hot, though those are hard to channel and hard to control, but they do already happen.

So we do see the real world being impacted by the conversations were having online. That is the nature of of society. Now I would say it's like they're the same. Internet life is real life.

Yeah I I get I get what you're saying. I was just i'm just imagining like the type of rumor is like consuming like this real palace tok and away and like they can put their own meals or they could do a lunching.

I don't like general low agency rumors in particular part their Young. But this is not a generation that seems to care very much about very much. Maybe will change, maybe policy is IT. Maybe this is like, this is the future for a good such I was.

Well, just the same. Mean, they are in the few places where they have some control. They are using the internal ways like they are actually, in some cases, harassing jews on college campuses. And there's that vial video of, like all these propane estan supporters corners and israeli on on harvard campus.

One of them was the .

law edit the editor of the law of you.

I would say, like, separate from the politics of IT. Why does all of these people failed the marshmallow test? Like like even the posters being ripped down, like we don't even have to talk about.

Like, you know, how do you feel about the posters going up? What does that really mean? Should they be here? What about people tearing IT down? We should.

We can at least degree that that the act of tarring one down in front of camera is extremely stupid. Like what possible? Like how angry could you be and how satisfying could that possibly be that you want your face on camera doing? IT, it's crazy. Like, I wonder how much of that in generalizes, like, reasonably smart people are like neutral, like border line, smart people looking at lots of very dumb people doing very dumb things and then getting scared that everybody is that dumb. But what that dumb?

What's the martial test?

The martial test is when you give, uh, a kid of marsh mills and you say you can eat now um that's all you get but if you wait like five minutes or multiple ten minutes, i'll give you another you extend IT is like if you wait till tomorrow, i'll give you three or something and uh your ability to pass the marsh mille test is to like put off temporary pleasure for future gains. And IT correlates strongly with success, obviously, but IT also correlates almost in exactly with intelligence, like actual is ri q yeah .

I don't I don't know whether they distorted, put up images of palestinian people who have died or were in custody ever like that would not be, wouldn't be one more palatable and useful. Yes.

because I mean, then you have the opportunity, perhaps, what maybe other people, to tear those down. And you have your own information weapon, but yet to tear IT down, how do you not understand? I wonder how much of this is also being lost in translation? Like is a cultural saying, I amErica is very I saw these uh, new workers.

Ah, i've seen this. I saw two different videos of new yorkers. One is the person who tweet IT was jewish, said they were jewish, I have to believe I couldn't really tell I.

And then the other, they specifically were not almost italian. And almost something else may say this in the video. Um well, that is a italian. I think they sometimes.

Yeah, he was like, he was like, i'm not you. I'm not just like you and I was like .

what I was like I know that guy, that Betty luo from new york um but those in both of those videos are you they all decide to like new yorkers to me and your budding up against part of IT is like, no like I really amount about this and the other part of IT is like weak. Don't don't tell people what they can say or what they can put up or whatever. There is a weird, what a weird.

There is a slightly like amErica can edc reaction to that, that is not shared by two groups of people, one woke leftists and two muslims. This is like, you can't draw famously cannot draw picture of mohamed. That is like a huge ge.

Know, we've seen this controversy again and again and again from everything from charlie having to murder drama in which I also remember people being like, yes, it's very bad that they die, but shouldn't you be respectful of other people's religions? And I ever didn't. South park with its south park that had the episode pulled down years ago.

This like this is something that we know. We know that uh culturally we are not on the same page when IT comes to free expression. I mean so .

the people participating in these marches, I um that maybe they're muslim, but they they're clearly not develop two girls that you are talking about. I think this is the case of time about new york ripping down on the posters like i'm pretty sure for lesbians they quoted is like very lesbian A B.

like both new worker ones. You had you had foreign middle. You are looking guys who are playing things down.

But you're right. It's not just that there are like run and workman we've talked about. She's not, to the best of my knowledge, most lam SHE is SHE. I was, oh, no. This is a way I forgot he was a that he does not look like a way that to hold their conversation, I feel like you want to come to me and ask me to to call you at they. You need to walk the walk like at least have a short haircut.

Give me somewhere. Me.

this is bull ship. How I ever gona guess that you are just a cute girl? I mean, blood thirsty, yes.

But yeah, the new york k times article about her, a calls her mix workman.

which is.

X.

I I can do IT this is where I draw a line. It's it's not the tearing down of the posters. It's like i'm never onna call you mix and I am willing to write over that. I will not pass that marsh mental test.

It's announce that is IT mix or is IT like me? Here is something as the x silent.

I think it's mix. But yeah I don't actually know maybe .

next IT would actually .

be perfect if if they put that they wanted to pronounce miss but is just an expelling that's a clastic ally, what a leftist st walk person would would do to you because that's what the z anyway, we got to, uh I want to talk about tuesday like we get let's get the following um ish fall publican spice um river you just rote a piece, uh we wanted to do this year kind of business history of this publican spice phenomenon. IT is crazy.

IT came this is such a weird thing to rock IT off to the palest now it's like let's to take a pause from that for a minute. I want to talk about pumpkin spice last days, and I really do um this is a brand new phenomenon. IT is not a classic american or any kind of uh whatever flavor. It's an entirely business concocted a phenomena and I think that's fascinating how I could start as just that on a wim and become um as the was at the washington post reported in eight hundred billion dollar a year business ever tells you about that yeah it's not eight hundred .

billion dollars here but IT is huge, correctly was eight .

hundred million, which is wild. This one counter was like, this girl really thought that pumpkin spice present ninety percent of the U. S. G.

One day. Um just .

one day.

Yeah no h yeah, punk in spices, lot are spice, as we know that today is an incredible new phenomenon. Actually did IT release this before two thousand and three win. Starbucks, David, the pumpkin spice later.

Before that, all you had was pumpkin pie spice. That was sort of the closest equivalent. And that was started being bottled by macc in the nineteen thirties.

But IT was a very niche h thing was something that you know your grammar by to make puking pie thanksgiving IT wasn't this ubiquity smell and taste that is over like three hundred products now uh as I check um so it's h service created this product, uh, pumpkin spice logic in two thousand and three and my theory is that like because it's something that you take with you, it's like this mobile thing that people can smell is spell sort of distinctive IT became this sort of multipart sense like sensation that people were like seeing and tasting and smelling and uh IT just took over and now it's just how fall smells, the vice candles or publics ice span. There's pumpkin spice, cat litter. Any project can imagine there's pumpkin spice and at all because of starbuck in two thousand and three.

not as much. Because the nobody then, at that moment in history, which a lot of us can remember, knew what pump can spice lattes. Where that's crazy pumps is fall. That is like the surveys created, the falls, the the taste of fall right?

And yeah he was all starbucks. I had nothing to do with um a troo cities committed by the dutch's india company in the seventeen century asia as the one should oppose suggested no.

go off. Tell what? Tell me they they refer to the history of pumpkin spiced violent .

ah yeah the violent history of pumpkin spice. This is like even pumpkin ice is just not that it's a lot to .

share 说 这边 like you see A I mean classical when I was in college， the idea pumpkin spice was um strongly associated with uh what we in a few years after that would refer to as a basic bitch. And uh IT was an actual like that there was an architect IT was a White girl with UGG boots drinking a pumpkin spiced um and he was seen as like kind of silly in this year, whatever else that is a woman who I have no strong feelings about other now I actually I guess I have a strongly favorable opinion.

I think she's funny, I think back and I was sort of neutral about about uh the basic bitch um the basic bitch for a certain kind of like washington post is sheet there's nothing more evil than miss girl like they hate the basic bitch and um I think that the pumpkin spicing is like it's it's part of we're not allowed to like anything and and it's like the as inevitably as pumpkin spice became, not only IT was been popular forever, but now it's IT breached the the basic basis of lost control. They don't own pumpkin spice anymore. You know everyone is in on pumpkin spice people just like IT. And once once everyone likes something like you're onna, have that girl at the washington post who's got to find some way to make you feel bad about IT.

I think there's a lot of psychology there because the basic bitch drink a pokin spice lot. SHE has a magnon. SHE has a husband.

She's problem. If he worked, she's probably like a nurse. He probably has like a good, like fairly decent job, but he doesn't think too much about everything.

He goes home. SHE watches the bad flor. She's happier than anybody working at the washington. She's happier than me. And like, I think people envy that.

I'm like, the idea is being rich, hot and with like a ninety five to one hundred I Q like that if you can live like that, that is the ideal life and they know IT and this is why they're like, I don't know, you should feel bad about pumpking spice because of period ism. It's like what you the time but we have anything do with me. I've never cared for the duck.

Yeah, let us drink the water. No, you're write about the happiness thing too. And I think that the basic bitches really evolved over the years. I don't think that she's a on intelligence as you say. I don't know many like I think you can be basic and very, very smart um or smart enough you know I would say like let's bob IT up to like a hundred and twenty I Q, fifteen I Q and you're you're like smart enough to know yogis healthy so so this girl has evolved now she's wearing active where she's going to yoga class um SHE is I think that she's she's not doing her finances but she's aware that he knows they are important and and he wants that taking care of and and I think that like that is yet this this is I I feel a lot for her what I feel for care and I think that I think that is a much smarter basic bitch could really ascend and be like um and there are different kinds of currency if you your dark carers would like to be a good hard to caring who just like socially policies make sure everything's co aac tic in in neighboring d there's a connection there um I think that these people can keep the world moving and yeah, i'm in support of her.

Yeah, we need to grow. Named ashly for president.

Actually, her name is Ashley. I want to talk about this one because pumpkin spice has me thinking of, obviously, pumpkins, which has me thinking of jack. And that was just allow ween. We are all kind of like just, I think, ticking off our halloween stories that crazy should that we saw the ways that was cancelled weirdly, like not that many costume cancellations. I think people were distracted by the actually important things made in the middle east.

No one have the stomach to be like, why are you wearing an indian costume? Um did just seemed too stupid this year somehow but there was this one crazy viral video that I want to talk about where on trick or treat night you know a family goes out or they just it's a little bit late, they don't feel like going out anymore and handing out Candy um you might put a ball of Candy down and IT says take one um and I would say that the idea of people taking more than one, at least as far as I can remember, that is the something that was a risk and that you considered a point and you are like that an evil person you would take more than one like it's IT was this very strong sort of community policing moment. But IT did happen.

Lots people just took one. We all saw video in which a family like bomb rushed a bucket and poor like like you're like taking the off the Candy out. It's like three little bags. People lost their mind. I know.

What do you guys take on leaving one out? On taking more than one is western civilization collapsing? Is that what this is a sign of? I think i'm pretty sure I saw any culture blame on immigration. Um what do you guys think?

Well, I mean, I should just say like I think the reason the video went so viral is that it's a family IT looks like a mexican and our central american family that has rushed this house has a ring camera and it's like the moms seem to be the ones were primarily taking the Candy and stuff and into their bags. And the kids are like, you know in the background taking a couple and then I think the dad comes back afterward to like make sure that they've gotten everything.

Watch the old video. I didn't know they .

came back that yeah I mean, the responses have been like pretty historical from turning point USA. I think that they said i'm looking for the exact quote but it's something about how like this is what happens when we have open borders and like we're living in low trust society now um and you know I think that's where the and culture comment comes from. Is that like people are basically trying to draw connection between this one mexican family. He's stealing a bunch of like racism and and .

what IT needs to be genetically .

mexican yeah and then like the one of a hydra ety in america, I tend to think it's a little bit of a stretch just because this kindness has always happened like there's always been the one you know ashton family or kid who just took a huge handful of Candy from the nice older couple of that left out the big a ball.

But yeah I mean, yeah IT is I was thinking again, I do remember someone was like enrico neighbor. Od, we don't have this and it's still possible to have social trust. You just have to pay for IT or something. I was like .

that most neighboring.

I don't like that. Most neighbor's don't have that. Like I I grab in the middle class or a slash working class town in new jersey.

And restrictor was awesome and people really got along very well. And I was very nice and still admits this like, be beautiful. I mean, I love halloween was like a different world for me.

Growing up, I felt like that, I felt like have been transport. I had been transported into A A parallel universe I I thought was so exciting. And costumes and like, we're decorations. People will do their house. You could go into houses.

There are amazing and stuff just felt cool, and everyone was trusting each other that, you know, your kids were going to be starched him like, or poisoned or something, even though we all had to watch those stupid videos. In elementary school every year, which I found out recently, was all based on a single piece of misinformation from the new york times like many decades ago. Anyway, no one has ever got to raising blades.

No kid has ever been raised ablated yet hopefully never um on halloween however, even IT miss up beautiful environment like something that you said there is always one assail um and a kind of only takes one because if you have one assail, who does IT you think to yourself man, this full of Candy. He's not safe. It's not safe uh, at all period.

It's like high level not safe even though it's not sure you just have to take care of you. That one family um so like my thing is mom goes to jail and we can all live to trick or treat other day brain thoughts. And I mean.

I think that video just turned into a particularly crappy piece of rioting propaganda. For the most far, I think it's absolutely ridiculous to think that mexicans or or whatever, I don't even where they were.

they mexicans were .

they they that they're like morally bank.

I know a lot of people that are from self of the border who have families, and they are all beautiful, great, highly at the gold, tend to be more religious than the average, would not make more person, yeah. Would not do that. So I am just a good ect, good, effective piece of writing in propaganda.

Would I like for us all in this pot is we do all at least agree that taking more than one piece of Candy is messed up.

I agree with that .

and that feels good. That feels like that's like a value alignment and I feel good about that piece of a um but speaking of immigration and uh I don't know border hopping anger babies will no one talking about a yep o we're about you um river got me on a story of last week um that I really wish I didn't know about because IT drives me crazy this kind of stuff um did not see IT he pointed out I was like holly shit tell us about anger baby influencers river.

yeah so there's this uh, australian influencer uh, named shana macao. A SHE is the most australian name every little bit. Uh, he is an australian influences like into like crypto o and like health nut stuff.

That's traditionally been her thing. I seen her a lot. But recently, SHE disclosed in the video that he had an anchor baby and close to rea. And now he is selling some sort of like news letter or something giving people tips on how you too can have an anchor baby and uh, the country of your choice and it's like list all the country is that have just solely a citizenship uh, what to do in the comments?

People are like you've got to be careful because some of them have a in military service but today he was like, oh yeah, we checked for that so it's like, you know he was like, don't worry, we pick the country where our child would have no obligations of citizenship, don't worry. And um the way she's spinning IT is crazy and he said the video, more and more people in the west are searching for a plan b first what you're still in the west or and coast rica, it's a catholic middle country. Um with an alternative password, you can always have an alternative place to go for protection in case anyone tries to research your freedom of movement, you can choose the tax system you wants to participate in and the more passport you collect, the more opportunity you create for you and your family.

So like collecting passports, like poke on, just like it's just no loyalty to australia, which I mean can you really blame? But like I don't know, just the IT feels like in stage consumer as a where it's like you are by your alliance is to a country like you're shopping around for countries that just feels gross to me. It's like have some like pride and who you are, where you come from.

I hope so. I, I, I want map put up A A map of what countries have a birthright citizenship that was called birthright. Isn't bit the world back up a bit happening here is the new world, north amErica and most south american countries have.

There is a there couple else, but very few in the rest of the world have birthright citizenship. So you go to a country, you have a baby. Let's go to america.

You're in australia. You go to america, america, the american. And a one does not matter.

The only way that IT does matter is if you are a diplomat for another country then IT does not count. Um but if you're not, doesn't not matter how what what happens. You come over here.

You have a baby, that babies in american citizen that is seen as so when you say something like, I don't that kind of a crazy, you were one IT shouldn't exist. Americans, american left, typically loses their mind. They're like, this is a fucking like sacred, right? We could never get to that.

No other countries in the rest of the world, in the world almost none do this because of shit like this. So you have this one piece that you know it's kind of anti social to be collecting the passports um where you have no intention of ever actually participating in the government or helping or participating in in the society there helping anyway. I think part of this does fall on us in our loss.

I mean, why is this law is a crazy law? Like why is that very able to do that? That's just not to .

me well in america's because, uh IT was a way to give free slaves yes, automatic system ship um so and I said it's in the constitution so you would have to like do a coal like change IT that you have get two thirds of the state of fine and you would really crazy process to get IT removed.

But um in a lot of other countries like king coast, rik are not a 是 but a lot of a central and like south american countries model their government off of hours after they break away from spain purchase whatever。 Um but there's also just like in the new world, you had a lot of people who were former subjects of like the crown. You don't even really know who's there, you know a lot of times and just people you have immigrants coming from all over the place and you have native people who are there.

You have former slaves, you have whatever. And so IT was just a way to be like, okay, everybody who was born here gets a zen's. That way we don't have to like go through old archives and like figure out who's a citizen of the span, new country. So that gives a utility an thing that made sense of the time. But now it's being used at for australians to get like extra passports.

which is great in the australian slight defense of the national australia. It's like that's not mostly where anchor babies are coming from there. And like in um in chinese .

and russian h that's .

of the well, that is something that I somehow IT not occur to me and is obviously a huge problem. You cannot have adversarial countries. Um you have you got have to be so easy to become a citizen uh of a country that you are in an adversary relationship with. That is just like obviously all risk down the road um are presently because this should is exist forever so I don't know what guess.

Yes, there's miami actually where we love is like it's probably changed now because they wrap orders more trail or the um ukraine borders more travel receptions now. But for a long time miami was like the go to place for russians and like other like families of like eater european， like former soviet, they would all come here unlike a tourist via riccardo in miami and just like wait to give birth and then they would give birth through the american passport. And then when the child is eighteen, they can file um to bring their parents to amErica and then their americans can get their parents can get to estionage. So it's like a long game that shut IT down .

is where i'm standing. What what about you guys said he would do? Think about anchor babies.

Um well, I would say I have two thoughts on this. The first one is that um this is something, I mean, I think it's morally reprehensible and this .

is something that actually .

have these australians going when they no intention seemingly of like making active contributions to the economy of castoria and raising their children there. I just think IT it's bizarre IT does happen even in countries whether isn't birthright citizenship.

They'll say like in southern europe, there's now this a lot of these countries like explain portugal have these goldin VISA programs that are mainly taken advantage of by wealthy chinese and russian. All of guards who have to pay, invest like half a million euros in real state or something, and they put you on a path of the citizenship. And so they use IT to get E, U.

Citizenship, which then gives them access to the free movement zone in that kind of thing. Um but what winters mean more about the aesthetics of this australian influencer going to coast to reka is what he was saying about um if your freedom of movement is ever restricted, which I think is very interesting because obviously australia had some of the most restrictive covet lockdowns in the world. And there's this kind of proper dimension to these like influencers who are going to because you think I think is considered part of the global south.

And I agree that like it's it's economically much more advanced, some of its its central american neighbors. Um but it's kind of bizarre to think of like these people from what we consider the first world going to mainly like south american countries that seems like because not I don't know about australians going to like america. I have anchor babies but you're going to cost Derek a or argentina or something. It's like there's some weird tasted mission of the fact that like maybe the west is gonna to shit in their eyes and so their children should take refuge in like some politically irrelevant in some context country and they'll be safer there, which I think is interesting in its own right.

Yet there's an anxiety, I think, that it's interesting to bring up what happened in mesa. I was just reading a story about australians having a hard time. Some some have lost their house because they're many fines from like the various coped policies that that went out australia.

I think americans is bad as I was here. Even we can make ground. How bad IT was though I saw that what was her name?

Brain in the x coker woman. Um he was one of the cofounder ers of gucci. They say he was like one of the first editors says I .

always forget her name. He comes .

actually on twitter all the time. Elizabeth spires.

is that you say last number? Speers, we should saying .

there were no lockdown. SHE was a guy lived in new york. Let me tell you about locked down. They didn't exist. Eighty percent of restaurant .

went out of business. L A.

I mean, that's yes. Like, would that you have people straight up looking you in the face now and saying IT never happened and that is a whole other? We could sit here and talk for hours about the DNA ics there.

But as bad as I was in america, and now we have to kind of deal with this sort, I think, because IT was so bad, actually, we have stuff like this where people was like, no, what actually never happened. There wasn't a lockdowns. There wasn't a loss of jobs.

There wasn't a loss of the business thing that, that didn't happen. The schools were not shut down. The statues were not smashed in the riots, right? Like none of those things happened. Um we maybe .

have to do .

that to even co exist with each other. As we have to just pretend that IT didn't happen because it's just IT was too crazy and too inspirational and it's of yeah and so .

rather than you know big .

for forgiveness is just like less just pretending we're memory holing and I guess australia is bad as I was here we were I mean, you could not be .

your igher hood that oh, I was just guys say it's always been crazy over there like I have australian for in these days every summer and we were driving to new orange last year, the year before last and he was like, I noticed that was not need checks and I was like, what do you mean?

He was like, checks I review was sharp on the road and like check, like brothel as you and I was like, what what kind of like, I think he was like, no, that's just what they do. And I was like, that's insane. And he was like, I guess that is kind of any thought they were .

going to in is what really thought they were going to do IT in new orland, where you have drive through come get your purple drinking in to drive through and get slashed on the road.

please. Yeah and I I always like we kind of like they are talking about he was like, no, like australia, it's really shown in copy like we didn't think about how is like IT is a nani state in every respect of the world is like that you have a good welfare state but it's also like we give you all this shit and we expect something return which is basically like pretty basic freedoms and um he was like, I mean, it's a country of like prisoners but also like prisons guards which is the thing that everybody for yeah like down dam no true. Well I was I was .

a great allowing for all us. I think we really learned something about pumpkin spice in palestine and the national australia. A cool.

I think that's IT for this one. We will catch you back here next week. Have gone 这样。