MBW 946: Slow and Steady - M4 MacBook Pro, Apple Q424, Pixelmator
02:13:40 Share

It's time for mac break weekly, everybody's in the house, alex linny handy and alco js snow. Of course, apple released its quarterly results. Jason's got the color charts to explain, was that a good quarter or not will talk about a big apple acquisition could be good news, could be bad news for fans.

And then, of course, finally, the new macbook pro is announced. I'll talk about speed and fees, all that coming up next, a quick weekly. Podcasts you love .

from .

people you trust. This is to IT. This is MC break weekly episode nine hundred forty six, recorded november fifth twenty twenty four slow and steady inside for mac break weekly the show we cover the latest news from apple. The eighteen is in the house alex Linda from office hours duck global. Good morning, alex.

hello. You survive .

the time change. You survived monday night football. I luck with election day.

I got is a long ago that I forgot what I vote.

It's nice. It's a luxury. Also with a andy and acco from W.

G, B. H. boston. He is in greater new england. Going to see you enter .

the a team can be how land mad, mad murdoch.

sure you can be you. He looks like he is fun.

I suppose the others just.

And also here a man whose fingers are every color of the rainbow because he's been making charge Jason snow colors. And I think .

you'll find you've conflated the um eight teams howling mad murdoch with marvels daredevils d murdoch and that there are different people you know no prize for you. I believe .

that you you're not family with a new d one theory in which. Between the eighteen universe and the dr. W universe, I believe he has the best of both world ties.

I going on that playing clubs .

and eight team.

It's the x man. It's the x team for the email, something like that. Now grow .

the and I said, oh, spiderman said I am.

Now which one pool?

Yeah, dead pool is a little spider man with?

Yes, I thought he was a little spider man. I wasn't paying that much attention. Hello, everybody. welcome. The week after the week, the apple, when we last met, they had released the mini and .

the time out .

my neck, and now and and then that day, the next day, they came out with the the mac books. I didn't even, I even notice. I like thursday yet.

What ever do anything? Thursday was their annual. I.

I, I was the opposite. IT was like, I was kind of out of source on thursday when there is no new hardware nouns what I refreshing this page for.

And then there was nothing friday, right? I didn't miss anything that okay.

so they rested.

So did you get do you have does anybody have anybody not anybody particular cases now have a macbook pro or a mac mini to hand?

Well, they don't come out to friday.

So oh, and of course, the embargo lifts tomorrow or something like that. So we wouldn't make you talk about IT or anything violating your the spirit will say the laptop .

view the this gets back to apple's launch. Um there is a lot of discussion near the end of the week like you should apple keep on doing this kind of launch thing. And twenty three million views on youtube, twenty three million views on youtube.

And they owned techmeme for three days yes, you know like like just like for three days at all. All that was on technium um at the top. So if you're wondering if you're going to see more of this, my guesses sorry.

let me turn off the magical allows. Yeah twenty three million views and six days is pretty good. This is the year macbook pro announcement and they get .

to be the number one text story, three days running, which is smart.

I think a so maybe there's a vote for this. This is a good and as as a reporter is probably easier .

for everybody. Yeah once a day yea filer like especially when like those of us who like only get like one at bat like per day or whatever, it's like OK. So that there's an announcement with three different, three different products.

All of them are kind of interesting. None of them are a blockbuster. Which one do we sort of give short trip to? In which one do we declare? I'm going to spend most of my work count and most my attention on this. So it's nice that we can talk about things like, hey, wow, look, there is now sixteen gigs of of of the system memory crossing tire liner.

Hey, look, finally, for the first time, we've got that new the glare coating display on the macbook pro like all this these little details that kind of like maybe would not have born a great mention yeah, it's we don't need a big circus for every single event. I think that is great when they do IT for something like apple intelligence, where they really do have to tell a major story and lay the ground and expectations correctly. But when it's like yet, these are three really the back, this new back money is really nice.

Hey, well, this new process of the family that is coming to the macbook pro that's a real pic boost forward. It's nice to be able to space these things out and not treated as though we need to roll out all the dogs OPPO. It's just for a simple but interesting minister.

I didn't find myself by the third one every time that the person can talk about apple intelligence was like I can skip .

over them that somebody who did a lot of work was the woman who has to. Every single video has a lengthy apple intelligence demo. If you were not sure if apple was pushing apple intelligence enough.

B boy.

where they by the when I was like, okay, and I I just skip over this and that was .

a nice not I have to sit through so the chat .

ROM wants to know, like how many mac mini did I bought any? I don't know, and I have a lot of money I have translated. I mean.

he hasn't found a client to buy IT for.

There has to be a reason for that business. I mean, I I know I sound like I just buy hardware willey ly, but it's usually connected to a job. So I I don't have I think we are looking at um actually potentially going to uh do something whether we have just turn one of them in to an encoder, which looks interesting to me.

Um but and I probably will end up getting one of the base unit to do some testing. But I have these one and m two mac mini and they are super fast. And I know for what I and hear.

The thing is I don't I use them. I use them sparing. I mean, I use them for different things. And they all do what they do as fast as I can imagine them doing them. And so it's not really an I A max tudie, which has a lot more I O so I I don't know you right now. I'm trying to figure out where I would put IT or what I would use IT for, but that seems I have a good excuse for apply one.

I think this is the quick kest. I've ever felt like I bought the role about the mac, many with the m four pro in the next day in us for max. I mean, immediately IT was a surprise, but that's twenty four hours. I mean, i'm left with.

I know it's going to be another six months, but I have been kind of the meeting in the mac proser this fast, macbook proser this fast. I really want to see yeah studios and prose. You know, I think it's going to be comment I think that I do think that the chAllenge at apple has is the problem that i'm having is that the hardware is out running the software in the sense that there is not many applications. If you're not doing three, if you're not doing some hey, heavy lifting, there's not many applications that give you a reason to buy a mac is just these these have jumped so far forward that um know numbers is going as fast as that needs to go and and many of the games that you can buy are going almost as fast. Sure they don't have racing, but most people are going nose.

I have hard work watching the .

video feed that was .

twice that. Alex use air quotes around the it's like there's a lot of things that are .

hard to render when they say we have four x anti alias scene with global lumination. You have my undivided attention, right? race. Okay, we've been doing that for twenty years. So I mean so alex fine alex makes .

a good point that um a lot of people i've seen complaining about I go they still compare this stuff to tell and one but they also compared to the one anything this is one of the reasons why first of apple silicon is so good that even if you have an m one, you probably don't actually need to buy them for anything because it's that good like apple silicon era is so strong. Um and then the second thing is we computer needs over assume how often people replace their mcardle are and there is still I one of the reasons apple keeps comparing things stay intel. It's not just to make apple silicon look good, although IT does do that, it's because they know how many people are still on the max.

And so they're still trying to sell them on coming over to sica, right? Well, you wait to till him for now the time, right? But but they know IT because there i've heard from a lot of people like or yeah, i'm still using an imac from twenty eighteen or i'm still using a macro pro from twenty sixteen and like I don't live like that because i'm a tech or in a tech journalist, but a lot of people like, uh, computers, a big expense of purchase and they make one and then they use that thing for eight years. And they are still they still need to be convinced.

And I I may actually traveling a lot again. So I may actually get a new mac pro at some mac book pro some point. But I have an older one to twenty.

Twenty was like last l mac macbook and um I had to render something on site. I had an event last week. I to render something that I just open the laptop and open up motion.

And I was this a countdown clock. But i'd done all this three uh countdown clocks, y things inside emotion and IT runs about four, five minutes on my max studio and I fired. Or we'll take fifteen or twenty minutes.

I was two hours, was two hours like IT was like, not if was not like a little slower. IT was unusable like I was like, haven't to live with what I I mean was a minor change but I was like, I figured, just throw this. No, you can do that. So so I think that it's IT is drum.

I mean, especially now that you're getting to to use them two and three and four s and in five, I guess next year, the intel machines are I mean, what I try to explain the people you have no idea what's on the other side of just any upgrade at this point. Yeah, I was surprised to look at like when things new one's come out, I was, go look at the, like, walmart, no end and costco, like they dropped. no. So the m two mag mines are still like twenty dollars less than the new ones. So, oh yes, so weird.

Be there with one of the Price guns onest.

Ly, if you have got a laptop, I know people, people have different buying philosophe, right? And some people like, well, i'm going to buy a nice one and then use IT for a long time rather than buying a less nice one and using for a little time. And I think that's a valid way to go.

I will say though that you can get for nine ninety nine, you can get an m two macbook care today that would also completely blow away you're intel laptop whatever IT is. But yes, I I also understand that maybe you wanna C O pro, the screen is amazing on the macbook. O I love the macbook air.

But like there are lots of reasons. Get a macpro. And yeah you're probably going to be more comfortable about using .

that for the next day years. And for me, is that like now that if I have to go out, actually do work in the field, then I need, I will actually use up the computer. So of of of how far I can go, specially because i've learned how to make motion a crunch my mac on any of them. So so that's that's been and that was hard for a long time.

So I did purchase a mac mini. I held off as long as I could.

Big one. The little I got .

the biggest one I could get.

Wow, that's a lot of, that's a lot. That is five thousand dollars.

like forty? No, wasn't that? Maybe I didn't get that. I mean, that was twenty seven.

Ninety nine, go all the way with the hard drive.

And no, I got two terribles. I yeah got a little things, but I got, no, I didn't do that. I got sixty four giggs around.

I got the yeah get the one in the bottom of below the fold. The the, and then I have created the chip. So I got the m4 pro with fourteen CPU， twenty GPU.

I got sixty four a maxed out the memory, sixty four gigs. And then I got two terribly. That's pretty max, that came at twenty seven nine. And that's pretty max. I mean, they don't think I could have done, has got four more terrible tes in the s that gets IT up to forty five ninety nine. But I figured to two with thirty five and two terrible tes and turn on probably okay.

You know, the thing is with underworld five, I might be tempted to go back to one terrible, or definitely not more than two terrible tes like you got because the problem with thunderous four was that I did max out at half the speed of the internal drive of the max studio at least and so but theoretically um you should be able to get uh RAID systems now that are running as fast as well. Ming, technically um they could be running as much as fifteen gigs a second, I think that are party more like eight to ten, but that's twice the speed of the five gig per second that the max studio original max studio runs.

And there's another point, which is that the store in sekou, I don't know that happened earlier but will let you install large applications to .

external drives.

So I said they had to put everything on that internal drive.

I don't find that I don't applications really take up all the space for me as camera files that well and .

that doesn't matter. You could put well.

you couldn't I couldn't before because IT wasn't fast enough like I oh yes, I six k raw files from a black magic camera and throw them onto a external drive. I can't edit IT in at forests. I mean, I have to make build proxies and there's a whole bunch of issues with that.

And so so the um so you being able to have an external drive system that can do as much as ten terrible tes a second. When is important for video editors? Again, it's not for everybody. I mean, there a lot of people that that is not gonna ver be a problem. But for if you're a big part of apples market, our video professionals and being able to take their raw files from their cameras and be able to edit them without having to go into proxy mode is useful. Here's the .

settings in the APP store download and to start large apps bigger than a gig by to a separate desk. And then you can choose the desk I don't know, I think that's good for you know, that's for games is what that's for because they tend to be four, five, six gig bites. This fell and I think is almost five gig bites. So so see if this turns .

out to I know that there's been a lot of talk about of becoming a gaming platform.

Yes, somebody, I was that out right there was an article that says, mr.

Man and I was kind like.

do some people say finally, finally, apple roses of a competitor, the X, X box like, yeah, no, it's like, it's nice that like tripoli games, it's nice, but it's it's nice. Start like the most demanding and most graphically chAllenging game on the trip. Let market on PC is coming to mac next year. But if you think that people are gonna buying a mac instead of an xbox, something that is, well.

if you love death, stranding your set, man or I pox coming.

I mean, if they the problem is, i'm sure that they're pouring IT in a clumsy way over to the mac.

And nia, if you wrote these games, if you actually went through the trouble, and I personally think apples should pay someone to go through the trouble to do this, and wrote IT to went through the trouble of two or three years of actually optimizing for the hardware, optimizing for the Operating system and taking full advantage of IT, you probably find that the games run three, four times faster than an x box. My levels, much Better quality, but you'd have to optimize everything to do that. And that would take a lot of money in lot to be, tens of millions of dollars to do that.

And and it's really it's really only worth IT if they are going be putting investment in gaming. IT really is only worth that if they're putting the money in places can create more APP store transactions because that still is the lion share of the money that they make from the APP store like none's games is the largest segment, but also in APP transactions from those games.

So like it's a prestige thing and it's certainly nice to have that in their portfolio if they have, again, really good like triple games ready. But really if they're going to a make sure if they're onna really be planting seeds for later harvest, they are gonna a want to make sure that which ver, whichever one has the most monkey like, press the button, get a banana pellet feedback loop for in that purchases. That's the kind of stuff they going to want to put money into.

Have those on the ipad, the iphone. I mean, that's it's a part majority of games on the iphone.

Better banana S I think gets back to apple needs a reason. I mean, they've gotten they built such powerful hardware that they need a reason for people to buy that hardware. And games are a big reason to buy faster hardware. Gamers are the ones that have the fastest graphics cards the most that they were.

They build their own system, cpc .

gamers. And so yes, so the thing is, is that I think that beyond in that purchases, but I do think I agree with andy that are are important. I think that there is a push for I think what apple needs to do is get people to put things on their computers.

I mean, is the prime of the pad. There's nothing on my ipad. I two ipad pro.

I'm not I haven't got the newest one. why? Because there is nothing that is going to run faster.

My ipad then what is there right now? And so that's the you know that's the chAllenge I think that apple needs to fine more and that that's where video comes into play. That's where um you know three d comes into play. That's where heavy scientific you know calculations and games those are is not many other things that need that kind of hardware.

So gar, I mean, government analysis, very weird. And I think we ve said this before. I really admire mark german as a journalist who's got sources and his reporting about apple future stuff is sometimes they put him on spot and they asked him to be a pundit. And I, I.

he does not plan right? Yes, he not from a .

small complete pondsy and and I think misguided because he's sort of like, go apple can make the thing and do a game thing. And we anybody who has lived five years, let alone twenty five years of apple trying to do games knows that apple doesn't understand games at all. And any gaming that apple is successful with, its accidental.

And in fact, you could argue maybe it's best if its accidental, because if apple tries, IT fails. But if they don't try, they somehow, sometimes succeed anyway, despite themselves. But that all said, I will say this, apple's experimenting with their their importing tool kit, stuff that they've been doing for the last couple of years.

So just to me that they are making an effort to basically make IT easy for people who are building PC games to get them to run on apple's platforms. And if they keep at IT, if you look at some of the other groups that are just like grana open source groups out there, like the people who are trying to gay A P C games running on, I saw he linux s right that I think that there is a path forward. But again, it's not apple spending money on uh titles and getting like three titles that are triple a from four years ago to run on their platforms.

I think it's that if they keep pushing forward with a gaming tool kit to the point where they can say, look, if you're building a windows game, you can also sell IT on a here is the sales figures you will get you will get an incremental five percent, ten percent revenue boost. And we've made the tools so easy that there's almost nothing you need to do. If they could do that, I think that you could get in a scenario.

Mac gaming is essentially PC gaming. And other than I know at the high and where you've got uh, high in graphic cards and stuff, it's never gonna be that right. But IT will be compatibility on steam and in the mac APP store and other places that they want to do IT.

And I do think that that's a smart gaming strategy for them because it's not hands off, but it's literally we're going to push our platform up to be equivalent to the work you have to do for windows and no more extra work than that. And then you you do you we're just making IT. You can be on our platform without a lot of effort. And that's similar to street to steam doing IT with the steam deck right where where they it's it's not windows, but they're built a compatibility later that lets you run those windows ms on the steamer. It's a similar kind of thing so that I find encouraging because it's not apple's usual game nonsense .

is IT is easy to right to metal as directed?

S, I don't know, actually, I don't know. It's easy. I do actually think that for his dollars.

for dollar from a Anthony neilsen project, reds blog says that their version of cyphers punk cyberpunk twenty seventy seven will not be available on older intel macs, will require apple silicon, and we will cook, take full advantage. Apple silicon advanced technologies of medal, including metal fx, the upscaling, that is the equivalent of deals. I think the gay important .

tool kit is doing a lot of translation stuff, where there the translating your windows stuff into apple stuff instead. And that because of apple silicon, they have the ability to have the have pretty good. And I mean, what apple says, as you can just click about, you need to do a little bit performance work. But again. If the amount work you need to do is less than the extra revenue you're going to get for being on another platform, then that makes sense for game .

developers. I think I don't know is easier. But I do think that the dollar for dollar, the new mac, like enforce and so on so forth at the same Price, would probably outperform a PC.

Doing the same thing you like, you know, if you the GPU, CPU and band and memory band with is a big deal. When IT comes to texture, a maps over sampling, lots of frame rates, all those things are things that IT IT is actually probably capable of doing Better, dollar for dollar. You can try build .

A A PC that's Better, but not the necessary arly. Most important thing. A lot of the reasons why the most games, the most popular games is because they are designed to run on a piece of spit with a dial dit. I mean, it's there you can build the five hundred PC that couldn't run a lot of the most popular, but mum most popular like team games out there. And that's the whole reason why they became a popular team game. The problem is that it's not it's not something that is on develop er's minds that we gosh, if we really want to seizable by the horns, we're gonna to target back of, my goodness, what are leaving whole bunch of money on the table? I think, I mean, agree with what Jason was think.

I think that's very, very smart that if apple is doing something very smart by basically trying to say that we are not gna fund, you fund your game studio, two million dollars to put all of you are games to our platform, we're not going to even try to make a cuttle you and and wine and dine you and convince you that you should be uh giving mac the mac topic platform day and date with all the other platforms. What apple can say is that whatever amount of effort you put into porting your game over to the mac with our tools that we've given you, it's going to be outstripped by amount of money that you're going to make by selling that on the mac platform. So I think I think that's a very, very sensible thing to do.

If people, if apple decided to have a new like games are whose entire job was to start games studios and covered in L, E, A, making sure that mad and is perfect for for the mac, I would think that that's kind of a fools, and at least not the most efficient way they could be spending their money. But the by creating that the windows, that windows, a translation layer that was brilliant stuff for them to do, this is exactly what they should be doing. An open pays off from .

what is apple's natural market for the macintosh. I mean, they're kind of given up on prose a little bit right only at the super high end.

and they never had gaming. I am part of that this ecosystem, part of the reason that, that the mac has been so successful, more successful than it's ever been in a testy is because of the successive apple's other products that you start with the ipod and certainly with the iphone. You've got this thing where people are exposed to the apple brand and they like IT.

And then apple says, well, you know it's Better with a mac than a PC, so maybe you should get a mac and it's simpler er and it's nicer. And the so some of that is nicest and luxury and and there's some of that IT just works quality to IT as well. And the it's the industrial design in the software, the ecosystem, and there's a lot of stuff I play. But I do think that apple has built the mac to decide IT is based on, you know, it's just it's nice to have an iphone in a mac and have more work together.

And I think that for individual content creators and it's still pretty popular.

So ah yeah I think that .

apple right yeah I know even when we work with creators, we don't we see some species. I mean it's definitely the handful of them, but it's pretty it's a pretty max centric and iphone centric world. You know there are the um there are people who once they start building a system, they read a bunch of books and they get a bunch pcs to do the editing and so on so forth.

But the reality is, is that especially if if you do in premier pcs premier I I don't think premier rn very um and but you have A A very large contingent that are using final cut and and resolve, you know and and I think that those are um and so I think that in that world that and I think it's leaning to back. I think apple did fall behind for a while like the until I think was really holding them back. I think that a lot of times we felt like in the you know the twenty tens that you could get more performance out of a PC.

But there's a lot of individual artists who are don't want to deal with pcs, you know. So I think that there is a big part of apples market are people who are in spaces that are less than five people or individuals and they just don't want to do the the tech support that required on A P C. That is different than a mac, you know. Um it's not that it's imac is has no viruses, but IT is easier administers. So I agree .

with you and I agree with Jason. I would say its ecosystem and inertia because once you go back, you it's just agreeing with you, alex, you just stick with IT right first. Go the other direction.

I think that I think that for me, the problem is I get a PC and if I don't, I don't have the enterprise version on that PC the first time IT updates and breaks things I like. I can't use this for production. The media leggo I A less.

I have somebody have to manage this for me. I don't want to deal with that personally. So I think I have PC sitting in my system right now, but I I don't put them in in anything that I deal with on a data day basis.

They're a little pieces of glue. There are usually really tiny ones or a really big one that are using from real. But having them everywhere means that i'd have to deal with updates all the time and that um is stressful in production.

I will mention because I waited IT to the end of the day and made A B to ordered nowhere to access the delivery data to. And our youtube says he ordered his back and it's coming the nineteen. So I think the eighth might only be for certain models in stock kind of thing.

There are do you think these are real? These benchMarks, they're usually real. They usually matched the finals.

There's somebody who's running bench. So so I think the way that works as if you don't pay for geek bench things, get up bloated with and and and like you, you have to pay and people don't pay or people don't know what they are doing or people get access and they do know what they are doing. But we've seen this for a while now that some devices get out there in the field and those geek bench numbers get uploaded to the geek bench browser. And so that generally, I think they have been proven to be right.

Well, in that case, if you bought a macbook pro with the max, you should be pretty darn happy. This is the highest what was somebody said the highest number on a geek bench single contest ever in a remarkable performance um .

and pretty good on the .

and only two maxes make two maxes make an altering keep you in mind.

this is not running on like a does top PC with a thousand light power supply. This is running on the mobile computer that's pretty oppressive and and you .

look at the memory through put again, those are the kind of things that when you're talking about games and video and thirty uh the the memory through put on these systems outrageous like you know outrageous bus system.

Yeah so good on you if you got yourself one I would love to hear from anybody nobody y's got yeah I think it's commit .

pretty good in the pro. We were were saying this last week because there was something we saw in the mac many years. The pro seems to be taken because m three, the max took a big leap and the pro just kind of got was incremental. But the the the pro this time took a huge leap. The proof that midcap .

that was when I talked.

I think I can say that I talked to some people had apple without getting into details because there if you about this, but I talk, you know, I talk to some people who do chip stuff at apple um and not behind the scenes just in a briefing and they seemed really excited about that number that the memory band with in the m three I M four pro is seventy five percent more than IT wasn't the end three pro that is that is a number that doesn't usually go up by that amount in one chip generation.

But I do think it's partially because the m3 pro was a half step， whether the m3 max was a big step。 And this time, what we're seeing is they've all taken a little half step forward, but that m three pro to m four pro has taken the the big step. And that's why um even some of those preliminary numbers and just looking at the spects ah those the magnesian ego pro, if you go up from the base chip to the pro chip, it's substantial.

Now obviously the max you're getting double the GPU cores right. Like there's oh if you if you do stuff as GPU bound, you should get the max right because so many more GPU cores than the pro. It's not even it's not even close. It's a no brainer. But if you're just kind of a regular person who's not going to spend the extra money on that, the pro is really, you know looking like it's going to be a huge step forward from wherever you're coming, you and want him to or until.

Let's take a little break. There is quite a bit of stuff to talk about. You're watch a mac break weekly.

The premier show for macos users with Jason nell, andy ano, alex linsey are shown. They brought you by the vw E A M. I'm thinking every time I talk about theme that there are people listening who really should be listening hard.

Your data as a company is the most valuable asset, right? I mean, without your data, your customers trust turns to digital dust. That's why van's data protection and ransom, where recovery would bet you go off there, ensures that you can secure and restore your enterprise data wherever and whenever you need IT matter what happens.

This is more than back up. This is data resilience is the number one global market leader in data resilience theme. Vw A M is trusted.

This status should blow you away by over seventy seven percent of the fortune five hundred trust vene. Seventy seven percent trust vee to keep their businesses running when digital disruptions like grandson wear strike. Those are the seventy seven percent you don't see in the headlines.

All they got paid rants and where they fees, they lost other customers data? No, no, because then lets you back up and recover your data instantly across your entire cloud. E, because this and wherever IT is fact, in most cases, we will stop ransom before IT.

But you proactively detect militias activity. They also does something really important, something I hope you're doing, but female, make IT easy, remove the guest work by automating your recovery plans and policies. You have a recovery plan in policy, right? I think a lot of people just go.

My plan is just hope he does know if something doesn't happen and if IT does, by the way, you'll get real time support from theme s ransom recovery experts look, data is the lifeblood d of your business protect IT get data resilient with theme go to theme dot condolent more vw em theme dd calm to learn more we thank you so much for their supporter mac break weekly and you support us to when you go there and if they ask you say, hey, I sold on that to a mac break weekly show. We like that. Let's talk six colors.

Yeah yes, it's for me.

Another me, quarterly revenue by category iphone less than half this quarter.

Yeah, you know, look, don't worry, next quarter it'll be more than half because that goes way up. I just know this is basically what the numbers have been, all long half of apple's revenue roughly as the iphone and then these days, a quarter of IT of the services grow and and then whereabouts c and ipad or you know in just below ten and that adds up to one hundred. So yeah, that's that's how the way to think about as rebels mean ipad are about the same. And then there's a quarter services in half rebels mechanic had share the other quarter that isn't.

Now I do notice that, that a couple of years ago, q for revenue was like much, much higher. Um why is revenue diminishing? And q four is the big is the big revenue quarter, right?

no. Q one is the this is a record. This is a record fourth th quarter for apple according, but it's a record um they have kind of reached a new plant to misal revenue.

So therefore .

there IT is A Q four record is slightly up from last year, which was presumably A A Q four record because I knew that a lot.

There's also an anomaly this quarter because um remember that there an early september uh the courts E U court decided that yeah you do or twelve that's for thirty billion dollars.

So IT doesn't to revenue but IT goes to the profit line. Profit billion less than I have been that you we're showing when we're talking about that was mac revenue not total .

apple or revenue of okay, that's why good .

the mac and the mac hit a real high, uh, twenty twenty one with absolutely on and the pandemic and has come off of that high a little bit, a little bit. It's one of the rare apple products that doesn't kind of hit a platoon and stay there. But I think it's because I was so such a huge number of max sold during the the pandemic and also the apple silicon transition that is IT was hard for them to maintain that level of sales.

But they have come down to A A plateau that is higher than they were when before the pandemic. A little bit um but it's still in the biggest mac market ever, essentially but not the bigger sales. Those were in like twenty one.

basically continued rise in the services revenue and .

down a little bit. Its rise was down a little bit, but IT continues to rise .

double digit twelve percent yeah sniff at .

double digit growth anywhere. And the services just keeps going up wherever les installed though if that's an interesting one is that the whereabouts accessories is category, which is um primarily driven by airports and apple watch, it's just kind of flat IT used to be IT was a really expanded and was a reliable growth source for a while and it's reached this point worth twenty five percent of apple's revenue.

And now it's just kind of sitting there. So they I don't know the reasoning is that flaking up a watch sales is that they didn't update their podds for a while. I guess we'll see certainly not the vision pro. So I guess we will see .

vision pro is in there, but probably IT doesn't make .

much of a difference. Can imagine that I don't .

know whereabout revenue down three percent. Here's the total revenue and IT does look good. Yeah, it's a good q four.

It's on on the planet. And then again, we're expecting I think they are even guided to essentially a record um q one holiday quarter, at least Better than last year's holiday quarter, which wasn't quite a record um which is what wall street want to hear.

What I do know that you're lying. Your averages is is pretty flat. It's not like revenge.

This is what I yeah that you know a patee, uh big geography, a fan. Uh, that's what that's what happens and it's actually happened. History, ally apple goes to do these moments where they have inflationary growth and then they sit there for two, three, four years at that level.

Now the bad news is if you're a wall street types, you wanted to keep going up. The good news is they don't give IT back. That's I think one of the interesting things about apple building its business is they have these moments of growth and they don't hand IT back like the next year.

It's still up a little bit. And then the next year may be IT receives a little, and then the next year it's sort of flat. And then eventually what you want is that, you know, year five or six IT IT.

Does the big up take again? And then and then finds its way what you don't know because I want time success like we saw with the mac a little bit and twenty one is nice. But what you want is we're the tide is gna rise and then it's days at that new tide level.

That's a that's a really nice thing for their business. So yes, from a wasser perspective, their business is kind of flat. But I would say for me, what's the health of the business perspective? They had huge growth, whatever three years .

ago that they've entirely held on. They have built a platow near the near the top of mont ever, the arted atia px. So it's in the fact that they play told is in growth is is something, but it's an enormous so on .

the money like profit in north quarters, fourteen point seven billion dollars. This is interesting. The gross margin is almost fifty percent margin. I mean, they've really are extracting every penny and everything they sell.

I services margin. And I I think I have a chat to the extent services margin is a lot more than product margin. But yes, apple is a very high margin business. IT always hasn't, but it's never been more than IT is now because you've got in addition to their high margin hardware, theyve got the impossibly .

high margin .

services business. Yeah yeah still down like a point in half or something when the market reopened the next day. But that's not that if if you if there are a lot of reports about how investors are disappointed, it's for the usual reason, not because they're not doing really well, not because they not hugely profit, but because they didn't beat the estimates that these analysts had for them a for that quarter. Uh, and this is me, if anything is just a it's just a show of faith from investors and that waves and webs depending on depending on the month. So who cares?

Year over year growth very good in china and europe. In the middle east, americas, a little .

bit down, yes, but again, they're coming up that high. When you look at at this way, he looks like there's a big thing in a plunge. But again, that's a growth rate. So they had a big growth rate and now they're of like in this flat period.

And ah they're an able investor, which i'm not you not allowed to be but by myself because that would give me again i've never i've never invest napped but I know a lot of people who follow this stuff do what I would say is the question is when is that next growth spurt coming? If IT is and what and i'm sure that's what wall street is focused on, is what the next thing. And we know that their reports and that apple has even kind of hinted that big plans in the iphone product lineup, mark erman said, like a folding phone and a super thin phone that might come next year. And they're trying, I think it's very clear, like they want that next iphone super cycle, where there's a really new iphone that kicks them into a higher gear and we'll see if they can.

Seems less and less likely to me.

I know right, but I would have said that before the last one too. I honestly, I would to set up before the last one. And that is a question, is that all driven by new hardware? Or is IT also that the iphone punishment cycle just goes .

like that whenever hoping apple intelligence would be a big drop? That's I known yet.

We don't know that a year basically for them to know if apple until they acknowledge that apple intelligence isn't going to sell a lot of iphones today, but they're hoping that IT will sell a lot of iphones over the course of the next year or two.

That's why the q and a during these is so interesting because he gives you reflection of what our analysts really rested and what are they really worried about and what are they kind of betting apple's future on, for instance, in recent earnings calls, apple would have to answer a bunch of questions about china because they're getting unprecedented amount of competition from railway and other chinese local brands.

I think this time they didn't get any answers whatsoever helps that their numbers were already up. They seem to be battling that that problem very, very well. But so many the questions were about give us any color and identification about how apple intelligence is going to is going to affect a future, future purchases of of the iphone.

There are also questions about the differentiation now between the iphone sixteen pro and the iphone sixteen. And are you learning, tim, are you learning anything about where the people's level of interesting and of course, they didn't have a lot to say of substance about IT, but mainly repeating the pioneers accurate thing worth the same. We're rolling the sound in stages. We don't expect any real of interest because of that. But we are going to have a product that is not going to be A I complete another couple years so that we're not going we don't have to really into that for now.

And it's not just functional. I mean, those of us in the us, especially and in the english speaking world can focus on the fact that apple intelligence, right, like first way was eleven one or eighteen one. Second way will be eighteen two, which will be up by the end of the year.

And then there's going to be an eighteen, three and eight, four and forty five. And this is a whole year long thing for features. But the other thing to keep in mind is eighteen.

One is U. S. English only eighteen two ads, canada, australia, new zealand, th, africa and U. K. english.

And they are they're saying that next spring, they're gone to add a bunch about the languages which will bring IT into, I think, china and the eu and some other places. So it's not just because apples, a global company in the iphones, a global product. This isn't just A A feature functionality rollout.

It's it's A A region by region rollout, which is not right like where you were so prime to apple just makes IT available everywhere on day one, which they didn't use to do. But they this is very tim cook right now. They've make enough and there everywhere immediately, not the vision pro, but like the products that matter are everywhere, but not apple intelligence.

And that means that the iphone role that now is kind of regional ized, at least for this one selling point, so that, that is a total change. And they they acknowledged in as as somebody who does a transcript of IT, which means that I need to sit there and listen to every word that comes out of IT. Even though I use, I use an AI transcription.

I have to verify IT because there are plenty mistakes in that AI transcription. I said they're listen to IT and they spend a lot of time saying, you know, it's gonna take time and wall street to understand apple intelligence they think is gonna a growth driver for them. But it's not gonna be like flipping a switch .

is just is so so many other questions were about apple, including how I think that was the second time in the world.

They have a question of how uh if they're going to be running a lot of their models on a apple silicon in the own servers, like how is going affect capital, capital expenditure like that? And once again, they say what is hard to a little bit of a shammy duck saying that, well, the thing is like we don't not like we buy a computer and that's what we runs, have gone. We do stuff that we own, we do stuff that we basically buy computer from.

So it's hard to say. However, we don't really think that is going. We've already been ending for the past three years. We don't feel as though there's going to be a big burst that's going to affect our bottom line in the next several quarters.

Plus their secret sources that they are running on device, which means it's your electric bill because stead of their electric bill, which is bliant actually the distributed computing thing where they've got the chips that can run a lot of these models just on device. And so that that is a fact. They also said, I know if you cut this one, andy, people were like, so apple intel gent looks like really hard.

This one I love, those analysts looks really hard. Are you going to to spend even more money on our indeed to make this heart up and the responses like again, they didn't say this way. The basis is like, yeah but you know we killed the car and um all of that money that we spend on that is going to go into this essentially they're like there are the projects that we working. We're taking very .

clear that was .

the answer is like, look, we spend a lot of money on a lot of research in the car project and a .

lot of that's just getting quickly free. Goof alex, this this is what i'm going to really miss about luca as the CFO. He has a way of saying, yeah, we feel as though we gave you those numbers already and the answer to that question, and there's a little bit of that, I don't want you to feel like a piece of garbage right now, but they would not be an appropriate for you to feel like a piece of garbage for us.

But luca gives and Lucy kes also, sometimes the analysts will say, look at I noticed, for example, this happened I think last quarter, I noticed that your margins are at an all time high. yes. And lucas response was like, yes, I am so glad you notice that they are right, like gold star for you animis job.

So look at my .

three apple CFO is getting turned IT. As we said, I think a few weeks ago, he's turned into a pumpkin. He like gets an office and he gets to fox on one thing.

It's like the semi retirement thing we talked about, where they want to hold on to their exact and not just let them go straight to the golf course every day, only three days a week or something. So look at myself. This is his last time on the call. I'm sure that he is trained his replacement well to do a similar thing with gold stars and an occasional uh, shaking of the finger, wagging of the finger for bad questions.

The hard as apples, number one, uh, hard and simple are apples, two big motes. They do things that are hard and they do things that they make things that work complex, simple. And I think that they're doing both of those with apple intelligence to some degree, like to the level that they are successful of those two things.

Um they it'll be a good business for them, but I think that, you know I it'll be really interesting to see how much they leverage. They have the advantage of built in the U. S. And build in the hardware. Um and there are obviously other people doing AI solutions on chip to distribute some of that out to the computers. Although it's going to be really interested in to see I think that we're gonna up seeing cow capital late to ARM because, uh, there's got to be a bunch of people out there telling quite come like you're onna set the whole industry back five years other than apple.

If you don't like figure this out because I know if you if you're a tracking, if you guys are watching that intently but but ARM cancelled their agreement with yeah cause like I was kind of like they can take you to court but there is there is this legal way without a court saying, hey, we're not going to let you do this anymore. Um it's hard to get out of IT because it's in the contract. They can just give them sixty days notice.

And so so it's going to be really interested in to see how that goes. But um but assuming that that gets itself sorted out, apple, I think still has a pretty big advantage because of the vertical nature and the apple keeps on leaning into that. Now we're going to keep on building vertical systems because that's they're good at is not they're not good at. Uh hey, genius systems is just not not their nature.

So any other color from the earnings call you want to add or should .

we not much they did all all. What I wanted to say was that there were a couple of interesting hard questions that they got. One being that, okay, basically, there is one candidate who might be elected who wants to tear off the crap out of every industry. And as a company that test, import stuff from out united states, are you worried or planning about that? And tim, like almost explicit, said, yeah, I don't take a dive on that one.

yes. Yeah no. He had two questions where tim was basically like, no, not can me. And one of them was, if trump does tariff s because I also, I like it's easy, zero. Well, trump talked about tariffs.

So what if and and you know what tim cooks not going to say is, you know, we did four years with that guy and we brought him to know, and we managed him, right? Like, we managed him and we made IT work. And if I need to do that again, i'll do that again. But he's not going to say that out loud. But we know what happened when tramp was president last time is tim cook showed up at the White house and he took trump to a the mac pro factory and the facility .

for your for P R thing because because at .

the same time there's the terrible story, but also there's also the apple is one of our great american companies stories, and that requires diplomacy. And tim cook is like a four years ago, they said he is a matter diplomacy with china and with the White house, and like he has to deal with this stuff. I also want to mention the other one with somebody asked, what about the D O J and google and all that money you get from google? And his response was like, i'll save that for another day.

okay?

Which is a big, big deal. Because if they lose eighteen billion dollars in and services, yeah, maybe services? No, there looks like the shining star that once was.

So that was say though IT will be a while and tim probably pass that on us to john tennis or succession .

s like big statement .

on IT is slightly troubling but maybe absolutely correct for CEO saying not saying that well, we're we're right there wrong or be we're on the right side history his big statement like especially investors yeah this is going to take years and years .

and years don't work IT don't worry about IT.

I think actually said that during the call last week too.

We actually talked about this little bit on sunday because we had amy webber, who is kind of a very high level management council. She's a futurist, but she's brought in to talk strategy with the department of defense, with ceos. And I did bring up him cookers, kind of, I think, the perfect example of how to manage and uncertain political situation.

You know, he was in china the same day. India nounce. There could be making many, many, many iphones in in india starting next generation. And he's very good at balancing these, these conflicting things SHE compared that to somebody like elon.

Moscow has made a almost pascal's wager, if you will, with the election saying, well, let's think about this if if Harris gets elected, she's not onna retaliate for me being a trump fan, if trump gets elected and I were endorsing ing Harris, that could be a problem so the wise thing to do is is, is support trump just in case and knowing that even if trumpeted doesn't win, it's not going to be as damaging if I did the opposite. And you know, so that's another way to do IT. I'm glad tim's not doing that because that seems a little bit.

And just that should be said that the airline musk is not just hedging his, but he really is all in and committing his entire platform. But but he knows .

that he knows that he will get you if trump wins IT today, he will get great rewards for that. But he also knows there will, there will not be a big punishment for if he doesn't.

But time, let's give credit to do for tim. He is really, really good at balancing those things, at keeping his hands clean while shape pick, shaking his hands with people who have A A great power to like hurt apple and to hurt his employ. And is we're not just talking about was going on of terrors, but was going with manufacturing.

Also remember that apple intelligence is not going to work in china unless apple depicts apple is reaches a deal with a chinese owned A I company to provide a basically the A I for that. And that's another very, very delicate thing that they had to have been for ten years of ground workers has been lying down there. He wouldn't have the credibility and the good the good relationship to rely on.

So the fact that he makes the government looks really, really good no matter what the government is, is really, really an asset to apple. I will say that in people have been listening show for years and years and years know that there was a time or i'm like, I don't I wish I I hope I know. I hope we don't find out in a bad way that apple doesn't have a line that willing to cross like when they were told to get rid of VPN off of an APP store or get rid of these podcast that this government doesn't like. They seem to have danced on the right side of that for now. I guess what is going to happen is let's hope things don't get so tense that we actually find out where that line is, I faith.

Well, amy, of course, has been doing a lot of work in the last couple of months with ceos. We live in a very uncertain time. Lute and and her her model was uncertainty, you know, and plan for variety of outcomes.

But you've got a thing strategically and you've got a planet. I think no one does a Better job at this in time. Cook, I think you've ttl give him tonic credit.

I talking about, I got, we always talk about what to do.

Steve could not end. That was all visceral, all emotional.

Be yelling at people and some yeah I .

think that this I think .

that um you know I think there's a lot of things to see what i've done that probably would have continue to grow products. And so often but this easy management of all these governments and rules and everything else I think tim cook was built for.

they became a for a email from Steve saying, I have some thoughts on the size with that yellow star and your flag IT is disproportion to the rest, that flag. And i've got the suggestions. Yeah right.

Let's take a break up. I do want to talk about that on intelligence because we have IT. And though german says we're going to get the next trench, december fifth through their bets, which isn't very far off, you watch a mac break weekly and the anaa, alex, Ellen, zy and chases.

Now I showed they brought you by another group of experts, experts, exchange experts in all things tech. But and I must say, this is very important to me, human experts, people like like us, if you are looking for answers, if you are looking for support, if you are looking for information and guidance, you should join this network of trustworthy and talented tech professionals. Industry insights and advice from people who are actually using the products in your stack, instead of paying for expensive enterprise level tax support that may Frankly not be as good experts exchange is the tech community.

For people tired of the A I. Sell out, they're ready to help Carry the fight for the future of human intelligence. And you know what, only humans can make a community.

And that's really what experts exchange is. A A community of professionals and over four hundred different areas coding, microsoft azure, AWS, dev ops and on and on and on. Cyber security, unlike other places, duplication, tions are incurred.

There's no snark at experts exchange, just people, experts helping other people. Their contributors are real. And by the way, not just contributors, but users in general.

There are all tech junkie who love graciously answering all questions. You may be an expert, one area. SHE may be an expert, another area, and you can meet together and help each other.

One member said, i've never had gp. t. Stop and asked me a question before that happened on E, E. All the time. And i'm really one emphasizes because there are so many other places that might seem the same.

But where you go and you get snark, you get put towns, you get we've answered that or often you'll get, oh, don't do at that way, do in my way. That's not expert exchange. It's a helpful community that really loves doing what they do.

And and they're committed to A A commune where human collaboration is fundamental. Their expert t directories full of people, many of them in our community, like roddy barn heart. He's A V M R V expert security. Now, fan Edward a millions, you have see maybe his youtube videos. He's a microsoft MVP ethical hacker, really smart, really knowledges.

And I go on on as a long list of experts, sco design professionals, executive IT directors, more yeah, you can get kind of higher level assistance to like how to deal with this management, help other platforms betray their contributors by selling their content to train A I models. Not experts exchange your privacy, not for sale. They stand against the betrayal of contributors worldwide.

Experts exchange has never and will never sell your data, your content, your lights. They block and strictly prohibited economies from scraping content from the experts exchange site to train their elms. Their moderators strictly forbid the direct use of elem content in their threats.

People that experts exchange know that the supreme reward for obtaining expertise is the fulfillment you get, the satisfaction you get, passing your knowledge on to help someone in need. Experts deserve a place where they can confidently share their knowledge that worrying about a corporation stealing IT to increase shareholder value and humanity deserves a safe haven from AI, from AI. Which bs u lose any AI join experts exchange that they get ninety days free.

They know you okay. Maybe you're a little on the fence. You don't need to give my credit card.

You get three months free, at least to me this favor, do yourself this favor. Try IT no cost to you. E dash e at come.

Slash twitter to learn more. experts. Exchange have been to have for a long time. They want you to discover or rediscover them. And they're gona give you three months free to do that.

E dash e dot com slash to IT thank you experts exchange for supporting the show and thank you for using that. You are also, they know you saw that here experts exchange eat ash that come slash twit. I have to say now that i've been using, no, I have up on intelligence on all my devices.

Turned IT on last week, got a very quickly. I'm starting to kind of think bit more highly of apple's staged rollout. I think if they adopt a lot of features on us, a lot of them would be missed, never used IT might be too much for people.

This is it's very subtle, but I get all of a set of getting replies in my pretty good replies in my text messaging. I love that, Frankly. I love the notification summaries. I think they're very useful. know? I used to just turn off on my notification because I was overwhelming.

I love IT that we showed IT last week five to ten people have visited IT run my door bill instead of one for each, you know, person at the door or that was good on halloween, by the way, or or your garage door is opened twenty three times. I like that. I think that's a good feature.

I I have to say i'm kind of coming around. I have to use the summary as much, but I think that that's also putting simple straight forward easily discoverable features in the start seems to me the right way to go. agreed.

Yeah, I think I think that makes sense. And I think that again, I know all the couples in that much of a, uh, rush, I think they can roll this stuff out. I mean, I have ChatGPT in my journey open most of the day.

I'm doing different things um and i'm been playing with claude and like I don't feel like i'm like i'm waiting for apple. Like my life is stopped because apple doesn't have those features. And so I I think that they can kind roll these out relatively slowly and really build that out. And I think that that's going to be the that's going to be a huge advantage for them because they're able to think through in a way that I think a lot of the other developers, kin, there's such a there's everyone's racing against each other to such a degree. Apple, apple hasn't the ability to kind of go slow the thing that I show everybody, and this has been on the android platform for a long time as he opens up in photos and get rid of things, it's crop pleaser .

yeah like body has a photo with some somebody or something and of I was .

just said, and I used to do IT in photoshop and I was like, I take things into gender, I will say that apple's version of IT is not as good as photoshop. I mean, like, you know it's it's cute but for little things like I shot something yesterday to someone was a pain, was my shop and just like I just kind of just click .

on IT disapearance yeah max.

I think I going .

to say I wonder if this is an I I do agree that apple doesn't have they don't have to go fast. There are not in a situation where people going to stop buying max if they don't have a ye features built in the industry is still trying to convince trying to make the case to people of A I features that are actually useful and practical. Was opposed to make for a great demo or a good White paper on something that you should be very, very, very, very, very, very worried about. Um so they have to they have time to do this.

What i'm what i'm kind of interested in is whether apple has kind of the I don't know the guts to move forward on A I was kind of concerned when a craig federici was talk to join a turn the world speaker nal uh, last week, a week before about the AI, the tales were out and he was talking about all well, just we're concerned about the truth of an image and should we be doing this with all these philosophical questions? I think it's definitely part of the part of the the conversation we need to have about is that should be what's the danger of making images and video so easy, easy to change none's. Again, if I took a picture of my kid and I accidentally made IT look like there's a palm tree growing out of their ear, it's great to be able to remove that poetry try.

Is he really great to be able to remove that pain? Can it's really great to be able to, like, be in a group photo by taking the group photo, then switching yourself out with somebody else standing in a new place, and now be able to combine yourself so that now you are in the group photo as well. There is going to have to be a lot of stuff where apple might have a moment where they have to say we can't we can't allow these purely academic discussions, philosophical questions direct the amount features that we're willing to put into uh into our products because IT could be that there is a good argument to be made on both sides. And IT turns out to be a product that people really, really want. So that's the thing that kind of concerns me.

Yeah, I think that the issue is you don't want to come out too early like you ever to make them this steps. I mean, there was a lot of stuff. When I was on call for help with leo, I had this thing where people could send photos and I fix them, right? So I would, you know.

people with something these by, like, twenty years ago.

years ago, I believe any. And so people know any. I get hundred photos a week, would get sent in, and I pick one that I would do.

And invariably, every week IT, was there be some waco that would send one in. And he is weird looking, and he's got this girl, and he wants to her, her, every company. This is my knees. I want to be coming to the photo with her and I be like, I should report you, but i'm i'm just not going to do the photo, not to do that, you never know was like this constant flow of weirdos who wanted to be competed in with girls, you know and and the thing is, is that now you can do that simply and I think I think that apple I think IT IT IT takes um I think the the it's not that you you can stop that. But I think apple doesn't want to be the first one you like that needs to be something that we're gonna know.

Let everybody else take those, everyone else be in the front line, and we're going to sit back and let everyone take those zeroes, and then we will roll in and and do IT slowly and maybe more thoughtful, put some, some, some guard rails in watching what everybody is is doing. It's of the it's kind of what was that? What was the time cruise movie where he never, he keeps on doing over what they change .

the name of the the movies tomorrow.

But yeah, live, repeat and and they change .

the name of the movie.

Yes, yeah, they did. They have.

It's a great movie by the yeah.

I like digit tomorrow. So you know what that explains IT because I said to my wife all, look, there's a new Emily blunt time cruise movie I haven't seen. We started watching. He said you've seen this and I felt like I was in IT because I .

was a repeat of the movie. I think I see that as many times he's gone through the ccl and know I just start where he wakes up on on the base and like whatever anyway so the you need to see IT want you see act one once but want to get back to is good anyway but the um but I feel like you know it's all that like trying to figure IT out, like apple gets to just watch everybody cycle through those things and make all those mistakes and and then figure out where where can we put garden rails that make IT at least like we did something reasonable because everyone else is in such a rat race to compete their throwing caution to the wind and and they're just saying, yeah we can make you can do anything you want and that's a problem .

I was going to mention. Um it's absolutely true that apple is doing this in part piece meal because they have right obviously, they're catching up. They are running as best they can.

Uh and you could argue that if if they could have shipped all these features at the moment, they would have but they couldn't. He didn't. But here's the thing.

I think you make a very good point, which is I think dropping a load of features, hundreds of thousands of features on people in a single release, even I mean, back in the mac era where I was like, you know, the mac was the thing apple did that was twenty ten or whatever, like I need all computer users. So know you're going to get your new features. I could sort to see IT, although was overwhelming even then.

But today, where you have a much more diverse user group, you ve got a lot of low tech people who have a smart phone and they're not like, oh, I just love udal around on a mac and I got new features to noodle around with. They're like they have to learn IT and then they they put IT in their brains and then they don't change. And it's very hard for them to glom on to any new features if you dump your years worth of features in a single go in september, guess what? That probably every feature drop, every version drop you do, there's a chance there's like a ten percent chance that they'll discover one feature.

So you should I think for usability reasons, you should probably drop five features or three features or whatever every couple of months, not one hundred features at once because I think if you drop five features or one hundred features, there's still only that percent chance that they're gonna pick up one of them. So why not? It's like we were saying about the mac, why not do three mac events on three separate days and get three chances to get people's attention?

I feel this way with all software like you can ship one hundred new features. Nobody he's gonna learn how to use. They're not we none of us have the capacity for that. So in that way, I think that by accident, uh, not only is advantage because apple can see how everybody else is a dealing with, I roll out and adjust on the fly because the advantage of being a little behind is that you don't have to learn those lessons, just like tom cruise in that movie, whose type of keeps changing, but you also have the luxury of kind of like spoon feeding IT to your users and saying wanted to try this.

And and their ads are like this too, where over time, their ads with use cases will change because that's one way you convince somebody to try a feature is you actually do an ad. And I don't get me started, I think a lot of apple d's, apple intelligence as a real bad, but I get what they're trying to do, which is, is, is lead people into those use cases as well. So I think I think they would not have chosen this method, but I think it's the right one. I think it's .

Better for users. And I think this does IT. Google does IT with their pixel phones. They do monthly pixel feature drops. So they probably have a more done, but they rule them a little at the time. In that way, you can absorb bit exactly like they're tight trading because .

it's it's overwhelming and and IT suppresses upgrades if the features apple learn this with I O S seven, right like if you drop dramatic changes on your device, uh, in a single go, people stop updating their phones. Like after IOS seven, there were no updates for a while for a lot of people because they like apple, completely pulled the rugged out from under me with this O S change.

So an apple, once you'd updated, so instead parcelled out very carefully, do this with a mog two. That's one of the reasons they don't ship the new mog set with the point o they wait a couple because they do will eventually become a foo thing where you like, go, why are you using a mog that I do not have? And then you get that emotion and apple intelligence features and generally features, I would argue apple has been moving this way. But I really like that idea that in june may say here's what we're doing for the next year and then that's a promise to roll all these features out over the next year, but not all in september. Please just don't do IT.

Yeah i'm always surprised that how my kids have know so much about the phone, like i'll show me some every time they grab b IT will be kids here's how .

to actually know and you know that .

the kids these days.

I know what if you want na show on mac break weekly.

how could you not know that? Know exactly? It's most like, obviously, the phone that they they they know really well. And I think that to to Jason point, is that there are so many features that are hidden these things this point, and I think I would love for apple to go as slow as possible because I find that there are so many things that aren't s stables that used to be, and there's that whole like snow. I can want a snow lepper uh, cycle where apple didn't feel like to had add a bunch of things because they they could probably use the year to tighten things up. But ah slowing steady is not bad.

Slowing steady yeah for all of us, right? It's for i'm sure for their developers too, right? I think this is one of the reasons why this happens, not just ravel intelligence, but for lots of stuff.

Why started doing some of this is, you know, imagine being an apple O S developer and being told that you need to get every brand new feature to fit and finish final for september instead of being able to trios and say these features in september. Like we've been saying about evil intelligence, these in point of these in point one, point two, point three, point four, point five, that's way Better. And the software quality, and he's going to be Better.

And like all all of IT is Better to do with this way. So I love that in some ways, apple being behind sort of force them into this, and I hope they do this next time too. Like obviously, you want the cutting edge most important features that are going to sell iphones to be there at launch, and i'm sure they will try to do that next year, but it's okay if some of the stuff wait a little bit. That's fine.

right? And the great thing is don't as as they demonstrated, they don't have to come up with the entire story on on their own. They can say they can roll out apple intelligence in eighteen point two by saying anything that we are not studying enough to be able to do with A I legions.

Let ChatGPT do that. Little go for that. And if you want to use something, is another service, another APP on our phones. We were more than happy to host gemini or h or claude or anything else as an APP on the phone. So they don't have all they have to do is put themselves in position where they're not part.

They're not getting in the way of whatever AI people want to use because again, there's we're not in the place yet where people know exactly what they want. It's a really good thing to have a eye that's deeply, deeply rooted into the Operating system so that like when you using the google assistant or refusing slow mo, it's just suddenly turbo charge with smart. But we haven't demonstrated yet that people want necessarily require AI that's built in at the OS level that the people who want A I will just simply pay the twenty box a month and install german I or install ChatGPT. You don't care about IT. They're happy of having wacky custom mog generally for them from time to time.

Let's take a break when we come back a big acquisition by apple, leaving the future somewhat uncertain. But first word from one password, you know one password. I know you know one password, but we're talking about something more than just a password manager.

Now we're talking about a brand is thing from one past where they call extended access management. Let me ask you a rtw ical question because I do know the answer. Do your end users always work on company own devices using IT approved? Debs, sorry, of course not right.

They bring their own devices. They bring their own apps, sometimes their own apps on their own devices. So how do you keep your company's data safe when it's sitting at all those unmanaged devices and apps?

One password doesn't answered to this question, something brand news they put together called extended access management. I think you're gonna really like where this is going. One password extended access management helps you secure every sign in for every APP on every device.

IT solves the problems traditional iam and md m can't touch. To understand this Better, imagine your company's security like the quality of a college campus, that beautiful Green lawn with a nice brick path leading from ivy covered building. The ivy covered building, it's perfect, isn't IT, except if you've ever been to a college campus, you know, there is more.

There's little dirt pads leading from building the shortest point, from building a to b, the ones the students actually use, those perfect brick pads. And the beautiful I ve covered buildings. Also, the company owned devices, the IT approved apps, the managed employee identities, and those pass, the people actually use.

Those are the unmanaged devices, the shadow I tps, the non employed in these like contractors. Here's the problem. Most security tools just kind of ignore the muddy path.

They only work on those happy brit path. And of course, a lot of the security problems take place in the shortcuts and employ your brings his own laptop. There's you an out of date browser on IT or an on updated version of plex on IT.

And how do you protect yourself against that? Well, one password extended access management is the first security solution that takes those unmanaged devices, all those apps and the identities and puts them out of your control ensures every user credential is strong and protected. Every device is known and healthy in every APP is visible security for the way we work today.

So if your company already using oc differ authentic, you add one password extended access management. Now you know, not only are the employees who they say they are, but their devices are secure. The brothers are up to date, the Operating systems are up to date.

And so with available for companies that use actor also now microsoft antro, and it's in beta for google workspace customers. So no matter how you auto dedicate, you can add one password extended access management 这个 out one password dot com。 Slash mack break is the number one P S S O R D dot com slash mac break, you know, one password. But I want you to get to know something interestingly new for enterprise one password extended access management.

We thank you so much for supporting mac break weekly, and don't forget to use address one password that comes as a mac break because that supports to, uh, kind of a shock came out of nowhere, uh, this week apple bought pixel matter, makers of pixel matter pro, pixel matter for IOS in the photo matter apps, much beloved apps i've loved got mullers takeyh he's the guy is a corn. And he says that I didn't realize this effect. That kind of surprised me.

That pixel matter and a corn came out roughly at the same time, fifteen days apart in two thousand and seven. And since affinity, which makes affinity photo and affinity pages in all of that, was purchased by canvas and march, a corn is the last independent mac imagine. Or from that era.

a corn is the cheese.

I like a corn, and I still actually used both. They do different things. And he says, yeah, there was a lot of overlap.

So what's happening is this a acquire are is apple gonna bring back appeared? There are a lot of questions. What are your thoughts on this?

I don't think there are bring back capture. And I think this could be incorporated into photos that could be its own APP um IT could be there's a variety. I mean, when we saw there's other things that they bought that they ve absorbed into other apps, there's other things they bought that let they let's stay kind of what where they are. Um I think i'll be a great addition to some of these other tools I have. We talked about this on office was a little bit not that excited about painting other subscribe like it's not like .

I don't think that would get picter was not a subtype tion.

right? And yeah.

I think IT was what there .

was an o yeah if you wanted to do with that way but I think um the um but you could get A A few box I bought. I bought both a corn and pixel ador or whatever or bought as they were released. So I didn't know i've had them ince since.

Um I think that I think the purchase of affinity probably put um a fair bit of pressure on both of those apps because suddenly they had a lot more money and affinity had done a Better job at being more photoshop like like so so IT was so I had I had a couple of features. Um um I used definity mostly. I use pixel matter for a long time and we used that used to be the standard thing that was installed onto most of our machines in pixel.

Um I moved to offending for two reasons. One, as they had this very odd three sixty painting tool. The other one, nothing else had.

So that was one one reason. And they added um T G A with alpha at my request. And so there was so because I couldn't find another thing other than photoshop that would that would export T G.

S. And I immediately went to to to pick later and said, hey, I really need this exporter like it's not not a big demand for that. Not okay. And so so anyway so affinity um put IT in and so a bunch of us all move to affinity because there was finally a photoshop, a non photoshop tool that would export stuff. We need different .

black magic switches.

you know and so but that .

was that is .

a unique use to speaking.

There was one of the first to put image racing. I was really blown away but how well I did yeah years ago.

I mean, I think that the big thing is, is that they uh what by not being constrained by the technical debt that photoshop had, there are so many of the plugins that picks me that does and that definity does and that accord does that are much, much faster than if you do IT in photoshop. But you can do them in real time in a way that you can't, you can't do IT otherwise.

In the same time, I don't think what's interesting is I actually don't think the picture matter is at the pro level is really that competitor with photoshop doesn't have offer channels, doesn't have know a lot of the other things. So it's a great APP for apple to get without getting. I don't think that i'm not sure what to do be thinks, but I doubt they look at that as something is digging deeply into their bottom line, you know and so so why I don't think you're going to get up like a change, you know a reaction from adobe by buying this. Um and and I think that IT is IT would be an incredible tool next to keo or d that's what I was hoping is .

that they would have they would add IT IT to that I work.

That's what they did that and made IT part of that thing. I think you would be a much Better solution than if they started charging .

us of subscription for you. But group er points at photo matter .

integrates with apple .

photos is so very yeah. So there is something making making that be you part of the apple photos my gut feeling.

I mean photo matter it's funny how to matters been doing A I relied like clean up in photos for years now, right? And and if I was frustrating that wasn't in photos, it's got some nice tools. My hope is that that the stuff that's been going on with photo matter maybe gets put some people on the photos team and and get some improved editing tools in photos.

But pixel matter, that's that yeah that's the question. When I initially, okay, apple could do this two ways, right? And my initial thoughts weh, they're just going to eat this thing, right? That's my fear and we're never going to see IT.

I actually think pixel matter is so advanced and there so much of IT that I actually have a hard time imagining that they would just swallow with hole. And we've never see you again. So here's my my best guess now is this and this is just a theory.

I don't know anything about this, but what is what matters to apple, the iphone? What matters the most about the iphone to apple? In many ways, it's photography. So I think maybe there's an argument that apple camera technology and the people involved in apple's camera stuff are very ambitious and in the end, whatever they build, however ambitious that is, IT has to integrate with their consumer photo APP um because that's all they got.

And IT makes me think maybe somebody said, can we have a more advanced photo editing APP as part of our, uh, apple software? That doesn't force us to toss every last thing we do. Into photos.

Could we have something? Because we have final cut, we can toss things. And final cut, we want to toss them in I movie. And now those are across platforms. Could we do something a little more advanced than photos? And they looked around and said, well, actually we could and that maybe that's what motivated this purchase is.

They want a platform for a photos pro or pixel or whatever they want to call IT that allows them to have something like final cut and logic for photography. That's not photoshop and it's not light room and it's not trying to be, but that lets them say, and if you want to do x with this new amazing future iphone camera future, we have the APP for you that you get for free or for a subscription Price or whatever. So that right now, that's my guess, is that something like pixel matter will stick around in some form.

And that maybe that's why apple care so much, is that there is a part of apple, which is the iphone in photography, that apple actually really does care about. And once you start thinking about every photo feature you had has to get stuck in photos, a consumer image library and light editing APP IT is actually kind of a mismatch. And they if they build every future for I movie, you you'd be saying the same thing.

So that's what I think and this is and what makes a pixel matter unique. I don't i'm not prepared to a corn. Others are going to compared mostly to photoshop because if you're just talking about, uh, is there really, really good there's there's the bill in photo editor you get there is the intermedia thing where you're still pretty much just sliding sliders around and you want to use AI features.

And then there's photoshop, and light room will give you that. Photoshop will give you that it's not even that expensive of things, just still just ten bugs a month if you just want those two apps. What IT, what owning a, owning a company like pixel matter will do is that pixel matter is something that adobe products arent IT is down to the D N.

A. IT is a mac APP. IT isn't IT is an I O S. APP, there is nothing about IT that seems like there was any quarter given for making this multiple platform. IT was just what is what is if you could even think of IT as the most a flor demo of every single mac technology there is down to metal, down to the p, down to user interface, everything that is an allegory mac product.

So I don't know why apple necessarily would want to own IT as supposed to be happy that IT exists and keep promoting IT in their keynotes as as they would like to do. Um I I would be shocked if I were, hey, we could make we could really make the photos APP spectacularly great and steal all those really great eye features. Of course, we've everything else, we're not going to actually have the ad itself. I I don't think they would be stupid enough to do that. I don't think that the pixel matter team, unless that would be a hell of a big truck filled with the sort of notes, the sort of bank notes that are only in like rip, believe or not, the kind of like a ten thousand dollar William freed can note or whatever, that's how much money they have to do to say, oh, we're going we're willing to basically put our our product in a basket set IT down the river.

Well, I mean, i'm sure is a Price. I'm sure that there is a Price for which that they might not care. But I think you're right.

I think the counter might be could apple take pieces of IT and put IT in pages and keynote? And reform and like free form is kind of designing a little bit, but I don't think it's the right fit. I think the right fit is to do a really good photo APP.

And if you haven't used pixel matter, like it's photoshop, basically it's got layers and and it's convection tor tools and it's like way beyond like photos. The APP could not contain IT IT doesn't make sense. Photo matter is like nice features that should be in fotos.

Pixel matter is photoshop. So now apple has a photoshop that at any point about one hundred percent right is very apply. IT is the most apply.

So why any? For all respect to guss, a corn isn't going to get acquired because it's so not up.

but so not a mac.

Well, this is one .

different yeah no, I love IT an old style mac APP where pixel like mac and ipad IOS like cross platform platform.

That is not the reason .

why I would confuse me if apple did not continue to support IT as a separate, separate product because of it's it's not just hey, wow, it's photo IT. It's now instead of using just pushing sliders around in the photos p now i've got like something that's almost photoshop like it's not just photoshop like IT goes off on its own direction. James mentioned about the the vector tools.

It's not just for, hey, I want to increase the brightest here. Hey, I wanted do layers. Hey, I want to delete something from the background. IT really is a one hundred percent independent creative tool. So as its own thing, IT is a natural part, is a natural fit for apple's portfolio, particularly if they make a kick.

But ipad version of IT IT is such a great way to show off all the technologies that apple has been investing in for years and years and years, including the AI tools that they are like, as we guess us earlier. Kind of not philosophically excited about putting into the mainstream camera or the mainstream photos. Pp, they could still offer all that sort of stuff with this free APP that you can downtown alongside I work again.

There would be such a damn shame and such a damn disappointment if they did not simply continue IT as pixel matter or even if even if what they did with that was, again, give you a new name, but it's still clearly pixel matter. There's still the pixel matter group that's updating IT only. They now have access to the silicon.

They now have access to, by the way, here is here is what the GPU on apple silicon in five years is going to be able to do. You get to start supporting IT right now, and you get to start telling us what this hardware should be doing. now.

I mean, I I hate I not can go so silicious to think that g this would be a great step towards having a touch screen. Mac wouldn't IT. But that's that's that's as far as I go. But the worst thing absolutely would be, oh, great there there is a picture. I recognize that the bones in the blood blood evidence of pixel maze acquisition in this one new feature that on my iphone, I think I think that .

one of the things that apple could have been looking at us, hi, we need to have more control over. There is a lot of features that we'd like to take advantage with apple intelligence, with all of the data that you these are were talking, talking about computational photography. Apple no has a lot of data connected to those those photos.

And you know something nothing's really taking full advantage of those right now other than than photos. And probably that's still kind of hidden under of the year of consumers consumer interfaces. And so so I think that I think that apple could have been looking at this area and they could definitely build their own team and do this. Or you could buy a team, you buy a company and have the team there.

And I think that there's a lot of value in pixel matter being able to integrate with keynote, integrate with pages, integrate with be able to add U S D Z you know uh features to IT h be able to do those kind thing is one of the things that adobe pulling away from apple on is the ability to generate high quality 3d assets。 You know an apple, it's a deal for for a lot of what apples doing, what they are and VR. And but adobe is crushing IT and how why are they crushing IT is because they bought out algorithmic.

So there's a they bought one company that brought out adobe. May had a bunch of a failures for a decade, gave up and bought this great company out of france that that really brought all the tools they needed into IT. And they just keep on leveraging that end over end over end.

And they're building like symbolistic. Now I can neo project. Neo is the symbol list c modeling tool that you can, that you can grab onto and start to build stuff. And so I think apple needs those, those generation because they need to control. Apple likes to be able to control its own destiny.

And with final cut in motion and in logic, they control their own destiny in those areas of IT doesn't mean that everyone's using those, but they have somewhere they can push that technology into IT and at least prod people forward in that area. And and so I think pixel matter fits that, bill. As far as in a steel image, vector image type of thing, I able to do that.

So think I think it's a great purchase. I do I don't think they are going to apart. I think that you could see a bunch of the features that they have fed into IT, but just those features, I think apple could write them itself. I think that having the APP themselves.

if they have a professional video and film editing tool, have a professional audio editing tool, IT makes sense for them to say, I won't have a professional static image generator tool. But as he says, not just necessarily a to the images. Again, the thing that keeps, the thing that dobe does, that keeps its hooks into me, that guarantees that ten dogs are fifteen dollars a month for me, for photography packages.

Oh, so now if I have a piece of art of a flying toaster, but i'm thinking, oh boy, wish you we're head on. Instead of three quarters, IT will turn IT into a three d object. And I can now spin IT and have a straight on version of this three d toaster, even though I didn't have to turn into a three d object myself for give me any hints that's the sort of problem solving and like, I don't have the skills to do this myself.

But hey, i've got fifteen dollars a month for this photoshop and is got a brand new feature that drop last month. Yeah, if apple can do things like that, if they can make IT so that any time I want to do advanced, advanced asset creation, hate use those those words. But that's the best way to put IT because I don't want people I don't want to start the thought that this is just to be showed photoshop alternative IT is like an a creative asset creation thing any time I mean, cano and I need an object. To dress this thing up with either generating of the AI, or editing something that have, or drawing something brand new, or transport graphing something I can have, such slick integration with something like peaceful, all matter that that's the tide that will elevate all creative boats on the, on the market and on the ipad.

Apple's relationship with a doby has been tenuous for while apple was in the Steve jobs here was really very anti adobe, right? They were.

They weren't. Think they are really frustrated with adobe, you know, because the problem that they had is as they move to um as they move platforms, adobe was taking a long time because doby has an enormous amount of technical that inside of their apps, and they're been slowly taking those sections out and updating them and everything else, but is not trivial for a dobie to move photoshop or premiere other things to a new platform.

There's a lot of stuff that that's based on things. And adobe is also manage multiple platforms and know apples just one of them you know there, right? And I think that and so I think that uh um I think but Steve job got so upset about us, he would really a new OS and adobe would tell everyone, hey, don't upgrade you if you're using our products because we and then I would go for a year.

I think you want going to went for a year. We are photo. I think that one, I was either six months a year that IT IT took adobe to get photoshop to the new version that infuriated.

But then at some point, apple realized photoshop is critical to the platform. Probably why I abandon aberrant, right? They didn't want to head to head. I don't think I don't .

think apache was particular maybe was a competitor to lighting, but IT wasn't ever really a competitive to photoshop. Um I don't yeah I think that I think that what what happens. I think there was a push to make for photos a lot more have a lot more features that got a lot closer to appear. And then I guess, to a point where and like, why do we have why do we .

have both one of the other direction? And I have to say that pixel matter and photoetched ices because their user interface looks a lot like photos. You don't if you yeah. So I think many photos pro is a very interesting .

did down to their website, right? Looks like an apple look like as a company. And there are some companies, not all in the apple ic system like this where they like we're just going to try to be apple.

We're going to what what apple do is the touchstone in every way. And if you get by by apple, that's kind of good, right? Because you were already there. And and so yeah whether it's photos pro or whether it's pixels or I don't know what uh yeah that would be if I had to guess right now that would be my guess is they will keep IT intact in some forms sort of like what happened with workflow when I got gotten turned into shortcuts.

right? And by the way, the team is in lithuania. Ia, I don't know if that makes a difference.

but I think apples pretty, I mean, apples third party apps are in. I think the logic teams in germany, right, like they're all over the place. And if you're not in core O S, you can afford d to not be in cupertino.

What happened? Logic is the perfect example of what would happen to the logic.

I think logic and final cut were both purchases and they left teams in place. And the logic team yet logic team was in germany. So they're still in germany. And I may may have developers elsewhere, but I will tell you, it's very clear from their release notes that there are a lot of german still building logic because they are very there was like occasionally I see some english that i'm like that looks a little like a german speaker did that.

And also, again, very meticulous and detail the best, I don't say this often enough, the best release notes in apple software, our logic released notes, they are detailed in every change, every time I see I think imagine if everybody's changed. Us were like this. It's mean it's like baby, at the level where it's literally every change that happened.

There was a small corner of the button that we didn't .

like and we soft ten IT yeah like yeah anything once called to this during during .

a night of ten sleep, we were visited at four thirty two A M by the ghost of Steve jobs saying, I have a note on the rounded rectangle that you're .

using in hair that's steric. I love IT. Well, i'm really rooting for the wildness team. I'd love to see them make this more than an aqua higher, but really a product that apple could add to its kind of sweet of free upset that provides with every mac and every ipad. That would be really amazed.

yes. Yeah, really. I mean, they could do IT as a substitution like the cut and logic or subscription so they could do with that way if they wanted. Um well, say no new .

apple watch is a bigger screen. Maybe we're gona finally get great photo editing in the watch.

Pixel made their watch. That would be pretty funny. That would be historical. Alright, let's let's do IT. We've defer IT long enough time for the vision for segment.

Are we disappointed with me SHE close zt yesterday saying, as I understand, the production of the cheaper vision pro has been delayed beyond twenty twenty seven for a while now. That means apple's only new head matter of display of ice next year will be the vision pro with an upgraded and five process. incredible.

Yeah, I don't think. I don't think it's changed. I think they have the thing like apples discovering this thing and apples going to go to. They are apples to do this thing. I think apples been on the same path the whole time and and I think they're just talking to different people like like apples decided to make a cheaper one and apple has maybe never decided to make a cheaper one that like you like. I don't know if IT I really .

people hold out for that is good to know, or maybe I think .

I think that I like the idea that they understand the difference between a thirty five hundred dollar V, R heads, said that has note that people can't figure out how to how they would use IT and a fifteen hundred dollar V R heads set that has no great abbot and no great use case for them personally, but IT doesn't IT does not solve the problem. I think that they know that if there's a the problem with the vision pro is not Price of access.

Is that again, why are you spending? Why would you spend we in a world that has that has the meta quest, what is what is your reason for spending more than six or seven hundred dollars on a heads up like this? And unless you're enterprise, unless you're doing lap lap scope pt surgery, there is not a whole lots of great answer to that.

So if that's true, I like that idea. Let let's, let's update the processors because we ve got new processors so that whatever job is doing right now continue to do very, very well. But I I would love to see apple a new there's a really new version of the vision pro. I would love to see IT be the obvious residue of apple having learned from their sales experience over the previous two years as supposed to oh, well, we just need we need to have one of pink and Green. And then that the reason people aren't buying them now is that cording a girl.

And they do have a initiative code named atlas, which gathers feedback from apple employees on smart glasses. They're looking at the the existing market. And this is german's sources who say additional focus groups are planned for the near future.

But an apple focus groups turned four.

five years from a product no at all. Like, of course.

they would be doing this is that that the response to the metal ray bands is to form a committee. IT feels like that means that knows if they are also working on IT. But I think that that's a little concerning to me. I did think it's interesting. The girl is also reported that apple might be considering something that is not quite a cheap vision pro but more like, you know, you take the computer off and you put that on the iphone and it's a similar device and it's specifically what he says is an accessory for watching movies. And I thought that's really interesting, right? Like if we believe that some immersive content and also watching movies on planes is a great feature of vision pro, could you build kind of from the other direction, something that is not as immersive and it's not as heavy and all the computer is on the iphone, but that could get you not spac computing, but maybe a really nice entertainment device and and how that is an experiment.

even just even a virtual display like that is the thing that gets me hooked on these devices. The idea of, again, being being some place other than my house, but still have like my full like multi screen display, is something that people keep responding to. The fact that I I think there was another new signal about eighteen point two decision, the next version of the vision pros, finally giving you the wide screen virtual display, which sounds like a trivial thing, but like this is the what people like about using these things.

like have, yeah you know why nulta why? Also my understand is, is a much quality that's just out in the latest beta, developer beta for what for vision O S. And you need the mac O S H latest beta.

But I have tried to yet. I'm looking forward. I need to upgrade one of my max to to fifteen two in order to get that. But that is yeah, you're right.

These these are interesting ideas to say, well, what if what if we don't have every product to be everything and sliced in a few different ways? Because again, if they figure out how to do a merse ve theory or immersive whatever, and and you can lower the barrier, you don't necessary need to be a full on vision. Pro computer. IT could be a simpler thing that is designed for very limited interaction. And just viewing and and using your iphone as the compute would .

also help sure and how apple would IT be for them to not give you have a cup of air glasses that is um like display port over U S B C. But oh well, and if you have an iphone, you can use that as basically if you have the map map giving aid display through the glasses with the iphone as an in between, essentially rewarding people who are in the who are all in on the ecosystem and encouraging people who might be considering getting like a samsung phone instead of iphone, said, yeah, maybe you don't want to do that.

I didn't think that anybody doesn't think that I was trying to find a cheap perversion or or A R version. I think i'm sure that, that was part of very early plans where they're trying to get to you know, this is a this is a gama test.

It's not even a bea test. This is our offer.

This is a search of the whole. The whole thing that some of us have bought is a giant test. Four hundred thousand was about the sample that they needed.

I don't think that. I don't think that they are measuring successful failure based on the number they sold. I think they needed to get that. You need them out there in the public and let people play with them, figure out what was working, not working. It's just a giant R N D project.

And I don't think that I don't think they are learn in any license s from the sales right now because I don't think that they care. You don't think I think I mean, I think they just need a lot of people using them um and and to see what what's working, not working, how to get things done. There's so many things that a lot of us are learning because we all own them.

So i'm developing things. I look at IT. I okay, that didn't work. This didn't work, but you have to have you know the people who are using IT now or people who are obviously early adopters.

But google did the same thing with glass for a while um and that didn't work out well because of the camera. But in the type person that would get first. So so but but IT was the idea is you need to get a larger sample then just close beta you know um out there and have people using IT. I think that's what I was .

doing right now. I I great. I don't think that they would roll out of thirty five hundred old product that's available to anybody who walks into any apple store if they did not intend IT to be a platform that made sense for the entire ecosystem. I I just don't see apple.

I think IT now okay.

But but they also remember that when google released glass, they were explicit saying that we didn't say this is the new next new revolution in computing and wearable. IT was like, we think this is a really interesting idea. We've taken IT as far as I can go, like inside our labs, we are making a limited number, a low capacity run of these, to put IT out the hands of people to see how society response to these things. This is why calling you explore.

They did very dangerously jump out of a divisible over top .

of mosconi and that that was a good old days when you sky, and if you can pay for a skydiver one to pay for a skydiver, you that was real.

yeah. Oh yes. Okay.

so many. But I I think the part of the problem was just that, as we've been saying a couple times during the show, like apple has at least of five year a time in doing, and I think that the idea of a wearable like the vision pro made absolute complete sense when they Green with this project to almost irrevocably go forward. And things changed, but not enough for them to say, let's just forget this all happened.

IT was still a product that they could sell. They figured that we can we're not gona lose money on our on twenty twenty four run of these things. And maybe that will set the ground for whatever we do next.

I agree with the you that I think that most it's not contributing to the bottom line, but it's contributing to their ding of how such a product could use. With one quick thing thing though, tAiling about something we were talking about last week when we were talking little bit about what might be discussed during the earnings call, we saw going to talk about vision pro. And I think we create that this like one sentence, like kind of under their breath technology that exist. And they said, and we're really excited by what people are using vision pro in surgery anyway, the chinese headwinds that we were now featured this one mention. I think the .

issue for those of us who have been developing for these sets for a long time, the thing that i'm most excited about is that I finally have a headset that can get remotely close to what we could see was possible. Like it's expensive to build that headset and the medic quest doesn't get there.

You know like IT, it's good, but you can like fine, like it's the three days, okay, you know and if you pick up your phone and do spatial streaming, it's a little Better like you know that is there. But when you look at when you look at um emerged, I mean for there are many things about that that I didn't like but that is the highest quality hundred eight degree ve stereo footage ever seen and and we finally had a headset that could display IT. You know and I think that that the impact of that takes years in the entertainment industry to to have but there is a lot of people in the entertainment industry that to have these headsets and they're looking at and trying to an apple needs to Spark that.

There's no way to Spark IT with. Another cheap ad set that's going to do substandard video. Like you know like you know, you're not going to get people thinking about IT because they are used to looking at IT.

This is the first had said that I put on that I would prefer if i'm not watching with my family and the player actually works. I mean like the amazon player, I after watch on TV because the player in the vision crop stinks. Um the uh so but if it's a native player playing video, I would rather watch IT on my apple vision pro than my TV if I was left even by myself, my families out. And that is never happened in another headset, IT costs thirty five hundred dollars to build a .

headset that does that. I I respect that your opinion, I just disagree with IT. I think I still I see the difference between the vision pro and a third thousand dollar headset as kind of the difference between like a mac mini and a mac row in the of in the sense that the mac pro can get one hundred and twenty eight gigs around and system RAM and the mac mini is limited to like thirty two.

I guess there's something really important about a machine that can do that can have hundred twenty eight gs of RAM, like being up to run these huge, huge models, financial models, scientific models, training AI, that sort of stuff. But I don't think that's something that's relevant to most people. If you're selling this as a consumer item, you're not you're you're making a very impressive piece of hardware that's impressive in ways that most people are not going to be able to respect.

But I don't think but what you have to sell first is the content creators who are just tired of everything looking like pop, you know, like like you like when you put on the headsets and you ve worked all all this time on this movie and you put the headset on on every other headset, IT was kind of like, like, like this isn't worth watching a whole movie on.

You know, like it's it's fine, but it's not worth of watching a whole movie on the first time that I put that I watched a movie on the vision pro. I was like, oh, I could actually see this is a platform to watch things on. Now do you have here the Price down? absolutely.

But you in the current technology, you can do IT and you can't get people to build for IT. If you can get them inspire, use IT. I think that's the chAllenges.

K and that's the vision.

Prosecution.

i'm just waiting .

for someone to use .

aid to either cut that out and listen to only that or to cut that out and never hear IT. But IT could do IT either way. I'm sure a couple more squeezers a pix of the week apple decided by twenty percent of global star, which does the satellite iphone satellite services, twenty percent that's not like buy in the whole company. But that's .

that's that's one point seven billion dollars in investment part of IT to one point one billion to essentially prepare chase uh uh the purchase uh their usage of the system h four hundred million I think to uh for twenty percent of the company and then also two hundred and seventy million additional to essentially help them out with their debt. Have some death is due in twenty twenty nine. And now that's that's gone.

That's amazing. They still I saw another analyst talk, talk about whether or not this means that apple will have more of their band with. And IT seems as though that's not true. They seem to think that there apples can be sticking out about eighty five percent of what the company can provide. But boy, what a huge, huge investment in the idea of this, not simply as an emergency service, but as a way for people to do messaging .

and they're watching more .

satellite to aren't yeah I .

think recently you very interesting U. S. Consumer finance protection bureau has ordered apple and golden sex to pay eighty nine million dollars for early apple card failures. The things they fixed pretty quickly well was a big deal.

The complaint mentioned about IT, like one hundred and fifty thousand consumers who just did not get their customer service tickets. I ve got a fragile and I ve got a fragile charge. I need you to stop there.

Or doing something about IT and getting no answer whatsoever. Also, they accuse both companies of you're being misleading about the interest payments and stuff like that. So yeah, they was a pretty big failure.

Uh, big scoop for the upgrade podcast, Jason.

I guess somebody sent us a an anonymous message that said that apple is working on ninety hurts refresh screens that would not be pro motion but would be liquid motion or something like that. Who knows what marketing name i'll do, but this makes sense in reviewing the ipad. Many one of the things that really struck me as as an ipad pro user, just the slow refresh rate, I really know no interesting.

And I know that a lot of phone observers have said that for the Price of apples iphone sixteen, uh which is a still a premium phone compared to android phones, you should probably have a refresh right higher than sixty year um and I agree, I think this is like the equivalent of apple holding down the base RAM and systems at this point, sixty hurts is not enough, I would say. And so this anonymous person, who, according to my hurley, is when we've heard from before, again, we're not really trying to break news, but all of a sudden we did a thing in the podcast and bunch of people wrote articles about IT. So that's interesting. Anyway, this person says that they are working on ninety hit refresh and that maybe that will be them raising the bar a little bit on refreshed on their devices. good.

awesome. Yep, right. Let's take a little break when when we come back your picks of the week, my friends prepare as I beg on bended me.

All are a fabulous fans who are not yet members of club tweet. To consider spending a mere seven dollars a month to keep our Operation going. We've had to close the studio.

We've had to layoff people. We've slowly shrunk down to attendance size, I think. But IT does require some help from our audience, and I think that's the right way for us to go forward.

Anyway, i'd like to i'd like to really make that be how we support the podcast, our listeners, what you get at at three versions of all the shows you don't need to listen to as you paid for IT. Um you also get access to the club to IT h discard, which is really a great hang. It's my favorite social media hang out, great, smart people talking about interesting things, not just our shows.

You also go to access to special programing that we don't make available in public right away, things like our coffee club and book club. And we did the photo review last week with Chris marker. The plan is to stream those live. That's bad.

Wait, another thing, the clubs is made possible to stream those live and then make them private to the club for the first month, then after a month, make in public to everyone because we wanted build our audience, right? So you get early access to those kinds of things. Seven dollars a month, twitter TV slash club twitter, do check out the two week free option.

If you are on the fence, you could try to see if you you like IT. Maybe, maybe don't need those ads. There's also, I think and I wish more people took advantage of this a great option to get a three months when you refer somebody to club to IT.

All you have to do is when you as a member is you're going to have a special referable that's unique to you. Put that on your social, send its to friends, put on your website, let everybody know. And for everybody that joins because of that link, you get a three months, which means you could really subsidize your entire membership.

All the details that twitter, that TV sash club twitter me. Thank you so much for your support and thanks especially to the existing club members. We really, really appreciate what you do. Let's get the picture of the week with mr. Jason snow, our first picker.

All right for speaker. great. I um there's an arms race happening in my neighbor od about a like holiday things like people with giant inflatable pumpkins and stuff and and like lots of inflatables .

are really cheating .

yeah and and then lots of lights, people put in lights and trees and lights on their fences and lights on their houses. And you know, i'm never gonna like, i'm never gonna out excitement, then they're always gonna beat. Those people are motivated, but I do want to be like in the game. And we put up cheap louy holiday lights on a roof line for years, the last a couple of years, they fall apart. They leave like stupid plastic anchors that .

snap up after a while, go around picking up plastic anchors for years, and just the feel like thousands of them every.

So I can't say that everybody should do this because there there is A A, I, I found a red post that link to a google doc or a google read sheet. A guy actually listed all of the companies that make permanent holiday lights and them in terms of like, cost. And do they project down or do they do they shine out and how do you count them? And after all of that, I am going to recommend ever lights because it's what I bought my ever lights down com.

They will do professional installs, but there's also a DIY kit. A lot of our listeners probably would be into the DIY side. That's what I got is the DIY kit. It's a bunch of lights in a wireless controller in a base station and a bunch shop for aluminium aluminum sheet track.

And the idea there is that you mounted ah you can also actually it's made so that if you've got traditional others, which I don't, you can just drill a hole every nine inches and the little light stick out of the gutters and then you put a little plastic cap on the other side and screw IT in and then they're anchored there. But they're really robust. It's four wires, so there's a power ground and then two data cables so that you have the ability if there's it's more robust.

Basically, if one of the data cables loses connect, they've got another one and it's all very flexible. You can you you can snip IT wherever you need to. And then reattached IT, they've got a bunch, they including this started kid, a bunch, he shrinking connectors so that you can keep a everything waterproof.

And I managed to a sort of like snip bits with with scissors out of the aluminum so I could get IT underneath the overhang of my roof, which is flat, but has some some beams that stick out from the house. So I snip little spaces so that I could slide IT up and the beans wouldn't get them away. Screw all that in all the way across the front of our house, put in the line wired IT all up.

They've gotten APP that you use to control the they they come you they do a bunch of different colors, but they are also like do patterns and blinking and anything you want out of IT. They're got a bunch of pre build patterns you can build your own ah and i've been pretty happy with that so far. I'm very impressed.

IT is IT is hit the spot. Uh, IT was a fun, although a little bit chAllenging, just because IT took a lot of time fun chAllenge to set this up. And now that I got IT, we don't have to hang little plastic clips.

We don't have to have the crappy these are much higher quality lights. There are other options out there too. But i'm just going to say if you get tired of the holiday lighting getting paying a little bit more and getting ones that will last is a Better approach if you can afford that initial upfront payment.

So far, i'm pretty happy with IT, happy how IT looks. And so yeah and and they've gotten an APP that is completely IOS controllable and personably and controllable too. But I didn't check because I don't care.

And yeah, it's good, it's good. I like IT so ever like my ever like stuff, they are very nice. I had a support issue.

They responded to my email. They responded to my phone call. We got all working. So um it's it's a small group of people in utah that that build things in salem and uh and anyway, so that was .

my my Christmas.

No, no, i'm the empty state building my nights hood. Now i've got, i've got, I got you thankful ving lights out there and i'm going to have some on the days, the cow place football, it's going out. My wife has already instructed me to build a honey ka pattern where i'm going to have eight lights that start with one yellow and then and then grows over time.

I am, i'm all in. So this is going be fun. I it's like everybody out in the street is going to like, what is that even signify?

I guess I have, but I will know it's Better. You know, ask me, ask me why the lights of that color. I will probably have a story for you. So yeah, we'll see how long that last before I say I don't want to be the empire state building anymore. But for now, if there's something to celebrate, I will find a way to celebrate in lights.

I think that's great. Every lights. Thank you, Jason. Linsey, your pick of the .

week year so um i've talked about this in the past. This is for a always works solution for getting USB in and out. I still consider this the the best one in the world. Um this is a USB preto .

oh yeah yeah I .

that's how you're hearing me too.

Yes.

this is there's the mix three which is more complex. This one is a tank um and but eleven hundred dollars so so so so and you can see at one point, I don't know when I was but at some point this is number fifty .

eight that .

I so so we use them for all of our kids. I was i've been out trying to get audio into the iphone so that I can take in board records when we're doing spatial streaming and didn't want to do eleven hundred dollars a unit. So trying to figure out how do we get IT down to something little less.

And what we found or what I found so far, I never be testing at some more today um but so far it's worked perfectly is this is the eva duo and there a iva solo and this is a USB c audio interface. Um IT will do IT does have IT has some output, puts some some quarter and chat puts on the back. But more importantly, it's got it's got two X L R inputs on the baLanced inputs there.

So you can get the and this is only, I think, eighty nine dollars. And I think the the the un. O I guess not do do solo, but the hunt is only fifty nine dollars.

And so and so far these these viral, well, not the same build quality of the same number of features that I used to with the larger one. But um for getting these h basic sources in, if you're looking for something like that, um this is working fairly well and IT works with the iphone. It's a little tRicky because in seventeen six, the iphone has been really tRicky about which connector which ali winter faces that IT will see.

And so um so this is one of the ones that i'll see in part of IT is because IT doesn't have a lot of future sets like IT doesn't. We've had trouble getting IT to consistently see the mix p three, the scarlet bunch, other things. And so this one is inexpensive and plugged in the um and it's working pretty.

What do you use for the output? What are you the no, what the iphone to the iphone to .

the iphone I just plug in. It's just U. S, B C.

Also the U. S, B, C port on that will plug USB c.

just plug string your iphone. Now you have .

an interface. I wish that is two.

Yeah, the iphone will help. Now i'm used in the kid that i'm using IT for and I thought that was the .

power the USB connector was the power in audio out. But this could be audio in as well. So it's .

audio in is what i'm using a four times IT can doing the audio out. It's got two quarter twenty years on the back. So doing baLance of out, i'm using IT with this the way this is kind of set up tonight. I'm actually my daughter's playing at hot monk tonight. If anyone wants to see .

your daughter is playing a hot money, they told the wedth .

rocket no no they um uh the high school he goes to does um um the high school that has a rock band class and that rock band class gets to go like six or seven bands that play four songs each and they're all playing in hot monk .

tonight and her the .

battle of the bands. There's no battle but they have a good time they she's part of a band two bands I actually but the band to she's playing A I think he plays with the m guitar in one band and either drums .

or bed in the other band.

SHE is plays a lot. He plays a lot. But yes, so this is the the rig that i'm taking with me. This is, this is using the belt and four one us. U S B pro two.

I know this is a big nerd.

I was, I offered to bring three cameras, switcher alive you and stream the whole thing. And I was told, dad, no, no, no. So so this is, so this is what i'm using here.

So I have power going into this, and then this will go into that, and then the phone will hook into all of this. And that's how you get all the things to go. But finding this kind of inexpensive interface to get into the into the phone was A A thing that we needed to figure out.

And you just earned us ten dollars with that pic from his son, a mod who says my favorite podcast on youtube and forked over ten dollars on youtube. I don't know youtube money conversion rate is, but thank you his son, and thank you, alex, for the pic. So we use a lot. We don't use the scarlet t focus right scarlets with this beer reply basement for that.

You think theoretically um you know I I haven't tested IT, i'm using line is so you always got the way you measure face um is with mike because the mike interface the preempt is much more y um so so I haven't tested this one with microphones. I did test IT whether like an next fifty eight and I was like and IT works so but I didn't test IT in but haven't tested IT for like what is the what is its base noise level? What are those type of but we'll try to do that in the future and will let you know.

And okay, course, it's a good Price. yes. Is ever who know or do al, which is isn't quite correct, attend but will take IT that leaves andy and oco for your pic of the weeks or.

uh, okay. Well, there is a lot of reasons why we have notes apps, which is when the reasons why I have lots of notes apps running at the same time. Two, two of of the reasons are, one, you want to have something a handy when you need to write something down right now before you forget IT like you're on a phone like that.

And another one is when there's just a piece of text that you need to come back to time and time again, like in my case, like there's a terminal command for doing something really, really handy in the ones fell swoop. And so I just keep IT nearby, starting to simply copy pace when I need IT. And so that's why one of my favorite apps for the mac is called, taught.

T. O, T. You are related, find out about is taught dot rocks.

And it's very, very, very correct. You are well, because he doesn't deed rock. Very, very simple, very, very clean.

It's a menu bar APP h that just simply has seven, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven pages of notes, so that whenever you need just to write something down, like someone is giving you a phone number, I need to write IT down. Click on the menu bar and just simply write IT down. That's great.

Or you can organize these seven pages the way you want, any way you want. It's not six colors. At seven colors, there's each one is a different color.

And so again, if there's ever you are well for a regular zoom meeting that I have. And for some reason zoom is not like discovering the U. R. alford.

I can go to this note and quickly rabbit h from there uh, and let's really all have to all I need to say about IT uh, it's it's not really complicated. IT has shortcut support. Uh, you can use markdown if you want to use markdown, that's fine.

Uh, and that does a sink tie cloud so that if you have, you can sink between your max and your in your iphones. But the if the if you just see using the mac version is absolutely free. English load installed is free, twenty dollars one time purchase if you want to use IT on ims and therefore use the the eyebrow d sink service.

But again, i've just I spent on my spin on my menu bar forever, and it's against one. Those things were if I if there is a new version of macos that IT weren't compared with, that would be a very, very bad day. I'd have to like i'd have to make some changes.

I'm really recommending IT now because every now then you really have you really should take a look at the tools you rely on each and every day the most and make sure there's still the best solution for that task you have for D I spent a few days like last week looking to see there's another like really quick handy taken out and keep IT, keep its handy utility. Where's a menu bar or wicket or whatever like that. And I wasn't able find anything that was nearly as good as that.

Again, for this simple task is not, is not. The central truth of my note taking is not why I reach for when I need to drop down ideas or things like that. I use google keep for that.

But again, for that simple task of i've right now have to write something down, I don't have time to launch an APP and or I need to h, what's that? What's that unicode ua, using that, that I sometimes used and blog posts with, i've just keep that cut and placed right. And there is second to simply rabbit really, really great by the hyon factory. So you know, it's pretty good stuff. Highest recommendation .

that has an excEllent URL taught a dot rocks. Thank you, Andrew. Thank you, andy and aco alex linz y Jason snell, thanks to all of you for joining us.

We do mac break weekly every tuesday, eleven A M pacific to pm eastern, eighty hundred UTC. Actually no, it's one hundred. Tc are now in standard time, one hundred UTC.

You can watch us do IT on eight different streams. We are now on youtube, twitch, tiktok, facebook, linked in a kick and of course, our club with discord. So lots of ways to watch as live.

That's why I mentioned the lifetime. But honestly, you really can also watch or listen any time. It's convenient for you because we make a copy of the show and distributed via the internet.

They call that a podcast. You get your copy of the podcast at twitter TV slash m bw, our website. You can also, if you go there, you will see a link to a youtube channel, dedicated democratic weekly.

That's for the video, of course, but a good way to share clips. If you said, oh, i've got ta send this top recommendation out, you could do that very easily with the youtube channel course. Best way to do IT to subscribe and your favorite podcast players if you get IT automatically the minute it's available. Andy, when you going to be on G.

B H next um not this week, but week from thursday twelve thirty go to G, B, H and was order to streaming live or later or a streaming previous reports.

Jane is snow. Is that six colors that come go there for the color charts as stay for the fun? You also will hear a few podcast with Jason.

You could find a little six college documents like Jason did. Thank you. J. B, and mister alex linz y office hours, not what you're you doing on office, ours these days. Well.

a lot of what we're doing, we're actually simplifying things a little bit for a while. We're not having as many of our second hours so that we can move the quality of the show forward because we've been lagging a little bit. And so we're adding .

we just so so so we .

so were now streaming ed in fork, which we realized IT hits a different place in youtube. So everything sharper for some reason even so yeah so and then so we've done fork. We're moving finally to HDR.

Sixty friends of a second, five got one. So those are all getting added to the show over the next two months. And so IT will be a very pure Q N A as because we're not sure how everyday will go.

So is only way. But but we've decided to get really aggression about solving that between now and the end of the year. So you'll see a bunch of that and pretty interesting tests as .

we get little closer to nice office hours that global you can watch every morning and you can even participate. If you go to the website.

you can go twenty four, seven. You can just go ask of a sour stock lobo, and you can just ask a question, then even two.

And of course, great matter not. Show the show the podcast you do for Michael crazy y yeah that great matter not show. Thank you, everybody, for joining us.

Of course, if you haven't voted yet, i'll give you permission. We ended a little early, so you have six minutes before security. Now to go vote may be that quick.

Make sure you do your civic duty. It's actually a great feeling to vote and have your voice be heard. And as my wife always says, if you don't vote, you don't get to complain.

So vote, we will be back next week with the same old crew and the same great stories. Thanks for being here. Now I have to tell you, unfortunately, is time to get back to work, because break time is over.