E102: Elite Human Capital, Trump vs Kamala, and Richard Hanania's Intellectual Evolution
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Richard, welcome back to the podcast. great. Help you.

Yeah, glad to beat her. thanks.

So the last time we chat about your book, the origins of wow february, i'm curious if you're working on a new book or if you were working on a new book, what what what topic be about that that's mostly a way to ask what are the the big ideas you've thinking about recently or that you've been a proud of and think add value to discourse?

Well, eric, I i'll break some news here and i'll tell you that I am thinking about writing a book on the concept of the lead human capital because IT is a topic has drawn me in IT is something that I keep talking about and I keep seeing. And when that happens, I usually that you know, the two books i've read, it's because I just wanted to get everything that I have to say about a topic out of my system.

And then I get sort of bored with that, like i'm very bored with work like I just I get even read anything about IT anymore because I got that out of my system. I had a bunch of stuff to say, and now i've moved done. It's only human capitals.

And I just keep coming back to this idea that there is basically this kind of nature lead the tensor rural in modern developed societies, and understanding this, this sort of this type a person, not just an ideological curbs, but like things that people don't think of this ideological, like their approach to truth and their approach to knowledge, and how they see themselves in relation to the rest of society. I think that's an important and powerful idea. So i'm going to get probably get that eh c good. You just to scratch that. I get that a lot of my system then hopefully move on to something else.

And is the lead human capital idea similar to john the rush? Is that of idea of the reality based community or or running pack? What is what is agc here and what makes different?

Yeah so I mean, only human capital is basically people who are smart. But it's not really I Q is not the only distinguishing factor is part of that. There is a correlation between I, Q.

And I like human capital. It's the people that are unusually idealistic. So these are the people who go into fields like journalism.

They go to feels like a deal. They go into on profits. They're interested in ideas. They're interested in changing the world.

And sometimes people will are disperse them and say, oh, these are like trust on kids or whatever. In some cases, yeah but in other cases, I know a lot of people who are who are aspiring academics. So he could have made a lot more money doing something else and they didn't come from the Richard background.

So you know that that's not accurate. And so these are people who care about true that you know they, they, they tend towards certain ideological positions. IT doesn't have to be liberal in the current american sense, but they do trend towards either leftist or classical liberal or libertarian.

What you don't find them is like blood soil national. That's very rare. There are maybe exceptions to this, maybe under more time, or something in ukraine or something at these. Are these exceptions that I 对 have to think about what i'm talking about， develop, develop societies. And basically, you know, they have tension, and they have a sort of identity that is distinguished from the rest of society, and they, they tend to cosme politics.

M, I mean, this is, this is, you go back in history and you go back to european royalty, the, the, the russian rulers, the russia, the rest crat sometimes speak french, sometimes don't even speak the language of the people that they they live with. So it's very common, know they intermarry. It's very common for elites to have this sort of Cosmopolitan attitude.

We see IT IT continues today. Now it's more merit base rather than heroditus or eraste racy. And that introduces all these kind of these kind of complications and these subtleties, you know, in the differences between the past of the present at the same time and is also becoming more important thing because it's strongly correlated with politics.

Maybe fifty and twenty years ago, leave human capital would be found across both political parties in america. And this is you know what I say about america, somewhat true um for much of the rest of the world. Now early human capital basically concentrate on the left side of the political spectrum, even if they don't agree on everything.

And there tends to be a human capital difference between people who support trump and people who fight trump offensive. And so yeah, this is the idea. I have a few sub stack on IT.

I'm going to bring those subjects together. I'm going to be refine the idea little bit and maybe maybe right up, but i'm not one hundred percent action. I want to do this. I'm probably gonna do IT. But if I write a book soon, it's going .

to be that. And a little bit now that seem to lab has this idea of of intellectuals yet idiots mark res and likes to point out that know to a lot of interest, cats were communist or pathetic IT.

If you were to know, think about the track record of a, who put in a leap your capital over last decade, you know, on various debt topic sanctions, if you would think, you know they were, they had a good outcome, is almost become the parity of trust the experts. I guess you actually trust the experts, maybe the right, or we need Better experts. I guess how do you resort?

Yeah, I mean, people always have this bias where they sort of remember when that leads, got this wrong, and they don't remember when to lead scut things. right? right? So you know, go back to communism and we go back to the but european integration after the second world war that was in the lead human capital project, they were right.

I mean the common market was a was a good idea. They kept the piece in europe um for for seventy years I think amErica with the world rule space, international order after one thousand nine hundred and forty five has been a remarkable success. I get peace and prosperity but this time on a global scale eventually defeated uh, communism.

Um I think that the masses haven't wanted free trade, but I think free trade IT has been correct. And I think that that's something that just been a lead project. This extension of the you of the european and common european project can be part of that.

Women's rights and gay rights S A lot of these things cosme Cosmopolite ideas. So I think they've generally been correct about a lot of things. Now I leave human capital is does not mean that they're always right.

You know they're often they're often wrong. You know communism was more of the elite human capital phenomenon, right? It's not that they're right. It's that their ideas tic, and they are smart and their interesting ideas that can go in bad, that can go in bad directions.

I think that the they know the point is not whether early human capital is necessarily good or bad, though that mean that is important. More of considering the the idea is that rule some kind of lace human capital rule is inevitable in the kind of, if you want to civilize society. Now I think like in the taliban, the alibi like the is in the missing gan power and they can shut out everyone else. Korea, I don't think the leadership already in north korea is necessarily a ID human capital.

It's a third generation uh dictatorship with a probably a bunch of yes men and toties uh is circling around the leader um but any kind of society we would want to live in um it's going to be ruled by a leave human capital and understanding what to leave human capital is and how to sort influence I an understanding that as part of the project is influencing and influencing in the in in a positive direction because you don't want them to be communist. You want to sort of you know a present a vision of the world that is true and that that is framework of where, you know you have an accurate model, actually representation of different groups, and then you could help to hopefully in influence human capital to be Better. So they won't be communist in future generations.

What why is that inevitable? That society will be run by lead in capital, a good side, you'll be run by a human capital. And and what is the way to or what are examples of a ways that have been influence? Positive read.

yeah. So the IT eends up this way because there is there tends to be a trade off between earning potential and influence in the world, right? If something is, you know, if something is, people want influence.

So money and influence are a sort of you trade that you trade, offer them in the market. So that's why journalism is not the best paper profession. Government is usually not the best paid profession.

You go and you open up bunch of car dealerships, you can get very wealthy. I mean, A A remarkable portion of million areas in amErica guys who own car dealership, it's body because they have some kind of protections st thing where no, I don't I don't know. I don't remember all the details, but basically building a cartilage ship is a good way to get rich.

It's not a good way to be influential or you know shape the culture or influenced policy except maybe on lobbying, on issues related to cardinal ships 这种 一个 一个 的 idea。 And so yeah I mean, so and so like you have these institutions and a lot of them, I know I know if they would necessarily pop up from scratch, but there are to a large extent, there are legacy institutions to the universities right, of harvard and neil and columbia were destroyed. I don't if they would necessarily pop up in their conformance abc and you know new york times, I I don't know if we get a new new york times, right.

But these are sort of brand established names. There's a kind of have dependency in them. And they because they have these norms, they are attractive to people who are competent and care about with. Now people are dies, are going to be right there are going hate the academy, they're onna hate the new york times but look, I want to know what's going on in suit and or I wanted know, you know, what's the state of debate in some scientific field? Your time is not perfect.

They're going to often get things very wrong but compared to say, going on twitter and especially twitter recently and sing for the kind of stuff that goes viral, the new york times and end C R, you know, infinitely superior to most you know you compared to like the north throughout human history, people just hear things, the word of mouth, or through biased actors. You, a hyman for a company, he was going to say, he he solved every, even he solved aging. Love, you know, cure cancer, whatever.

That's the alternative to having something like the M S M, right? Just people just with either bias perspective or just people spreading rumors or people cause troubles or lying for whatever reason. And so yeah, the fact that you have these institutions and you know their models, the other countries have to develop similar institutions, right? And you know it's sort of it's necessary to have like a functioning society, like you need government that is at least somewhat neutral, are you need ways to to innovate and to develop scientific understanding and just to and just to understand the world.

And so a lot of people in government who are doing or collecting economics, statistics, the people in academia and science and biology who are doing the research and you know, making these incremental improvements that, you know, that is modern medicine, these these are things that basically that those these are institutions are going to attractive human capital. And you know, you can have, again, you can have a society that doesn't have that, that doesn't have media institutions that anyone can trust, that doesn't have academic institutions, are like research institutions that do all that much. That's usually not gonna. A very nice place to live.

And I think the, if I understand quickly, the block span dual, his theory arrives of why these these people who always who go into these fields are, you know, partly left. This is because the left has, you know, more of an idea, strict IT, more of a clear path to change things, and more of the path to change things that benefit the people who are, in fact, change to you of ways and services by nature of conservation goes less opportunity for change and that's less less opportunity for status acquisition.

And so the left has you know a more at the sort of liquid status market that if you advocate for interest, you also advocate for your own interest um in trying to gain statius in this kind of way. Is is is only that resonate with you. Where are they always office?

Yeah I don't think they'll always left this.

I mean, I think that deal during f dr time, I think that that was kind of the masses rising up against the more or sort of classically liberal in our terms, more conservative elite ite, and you know you have to you have to ask what are these sort of how do they understand interest? Because interest are not just material um status is not sort of beauty dimensions, right? And so if if someone thinks that you know your typical journalist um your typical say, journalist maybe not making that much money for what new yorker or something or some kind of is a professor, if you think they would be happy if they could acquire status, if they could like run a local car deal ship.

I just going to use example because we're already on IT and they can make three times as much when they can have status in their community. I mean, they can move out to small ohio and you know marry a life. And the people who know people think that you know the bigger thing in the world, if you think they would take that or like they're just going into journalism marking because they are capable maybe they are incapable of doing that, but not because like they're not smart enough to write a car dealership or or something like that.

It's more along the lines of like they have this inherent value system that is not just focused on I you know, I bigger house than you. I have a bigger car than you. I have more money than you.

I mean, something like that works for double trump and trust fans like that that is so tired can be good because they're not to leave. You will cap IT. They're the opposite. And he sort of he's the person who sort of reflexive values to the greater the greatest extend imaginable just gold toilets and helicopters and supermodel lives and so forth.

But yeah, I know I think that these these story different values, just to say, interests and they're trying to the trying to push for their own interest by changing the value system. There's probably some of that, but I think the value system is sort of 医疗 aaa sort of comes first like they can't like they couldn't do the other thing。 But it's not like, you know an intelligence thing or something that is the value thing.

There is there is a need for something more. There is a kind of need for meaning a lot of people that other people don't have. Some people just want to drink beer and maybe Better on sports and and barbecue and that's fine.

And you know I know you know sound like they always have the highest status, right? It's not like to some guys is just like a conservative like instinctively servais guy who likes you know the Green day packagers and and double trump like he's contempt society because he necessarily high that has the high status he might be. He might be a loser.

But this is the status hierarch. This is the only thing he can sort of get IT handed around and might be an intelligence thing but IT, it's also an idealistic thing. And so yeah, I think that talking about groups pushing their own interest, I think their good reasons and maker also his theory of groups that usually there is a collective actual problem when you start talking about large groups pushing their own interests. So I I tend emphasize value.

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I'm cursed to think about the values yeah between the differences between someone like as recline or you know a matic glaces on one hand and something like you want on the other hand. And maybe you on is an often quote reader of a catch an account that you show little for and and may maybe i'll disturb a change your revolution of how you became someone who originally you know to go your own post to hate prone out people or the genocide to now actually don't really mind about pro .

of people but can stand cancer cancer I get turn more than just as like as you know I don't yeah it's yeah I mean, no, I used to be on the side of lot of we talked about my teched article a while ago, and I used to be I think probably a lot of your lives are that orientated. Maybe they read my article at the time. And you know, I still hold on to a lot of the views.

My values haven't change. I sort of been mugged by reality. Yeah, I mean, I was sort of like, you have a revolution and then the world changes and you, I go away.

The revolution had all kinds of problem. So social media, you know, under elon mask article, one time I said, you mask, just buy twitter. You know, our sister came along and and solve the problem.

great. It's good for me personally. I mean, if I was just about my own interest, I mean, new one must follows me and retreats me sometimes and I get more engagement.

And I don't worry about getting banned from twitter anymore. Like like I used to. But the free speech issue was solved. And now it's my god. I mean, my god, this tweet, this, you know, all the disinformation people, I thought they were crazy, I thought just been free speech. But we have free speech.

And now you have six figure and seven figure accounts who do nothing but make stuff up, who just little not like twist the news, not just bias, but literally breaking sources within the kala campaign. Oh, she's about to commit suicide because her internal polls, she's down by ten. I mean, it's just this we can stupid.

And this is, this is what the market wants. You know, kindest owns, I think has know is a four million. Five million is something some kind of five, six million. I don't know what IT is.

I looked at recently at the top podcast in the country, they were tucker, they were rogan and they were candless oons, right? And I I think those were the top three year there. There have been one more.

There was also very, very bad, but they fluctuate day to date, right? But this was, this is the audience this people want in the podcast space. You see alexon es, come back.

You see Alice Jones, sort of like mainstream within the republic ican party. And it's like, this is human nature. This is human nature.

This is what, like you put about third word's and gave them twitter and made IT uncensored. And like, you want to the middle east or something, or you subsaharan african come. This was what I would be like, people making stuff of conspiracy theory.

You just the crude racism. Nobody knowing, like any caring what's true or knowing what's going on. And that's conservatives, that is conservatives space give conservatives and unrestrained space where they talk to one another.

This is what they end up with. And you have to think about that. And you have to think about the fact that you've never built, you know, i'm an intellectual like, like, oh, you turn there at most. Like, it's like, it's hard to be a right when intellectual because like, I want to read about the world. Like, I want to read a story about the civil war and burma.

I keep bringing this of this example, civil war, because, like, there is a world of conservatives, I literally don't know berm exit, like I little, I probably would have trouble finding, like the population I probably, I could not probably ouldn't even have statistics, and much less like a map of, like what's going on in the civil war right now. And like which group is control that that i'm a burma, you know, in yan mar expert or anything, or this is like my biggest interest, but it's just, you know, trying to understand something about the world, right, wanting and something like an intellectual life. They don't have that elan. I mean, does great.

He gets to mars, right? He's going to go to bars hopefully. You know, he he builds these reusable rockets. Yeah I think that silvers but talks about the river and the village and I think these are sort of it's a little bit broader. He could have done, I think, a more narrow book.

And I think what he's really getting at is that basically there's like me, it's basically the tech right versus the liberal establishment. I mean, I think that's probably like sort of a related idea to what he's talking about. And i'm convinced we need a synthesis. We don't need elon to crush the new ork times. We don't want new york times to crush you on either. We want some kind of synthesis where we take this kind of you know spirit that a lot of these right wing people have, a lot of these people that come out of business and take what's good out of these institutions, these establish institutions know that there's no like alex Jones or there's no conservative like version of this coming. And somehow that's that's where we .

need to do. We need we need the synthesis going back to do the novel math as a limited view, of course, real, the of of, you know. And you take the best of the tech, right? You elon market rising, R, T, O, dives, act wever. What what do you think are the main differences between those those what needs to be bridged?

yeah. And so I can I can put myself I can put myself in the issues of in the tech right people, because I think I was closest to them a couple years ago. And you know I think that they are there's a tendency to throw out the baby with the bath water.

Not a lot of the discourse we're seeing. You know, we're sitting here and where a few weeks before the election. So I know I know what I sees, people saying things that are twisting the truth are not necessarily, you know, the fairs character zone of someone's position.

I'm a little bit more forgiving because I I know it's elections is that people get crazy and people think they have an interest in saying things that necessarily aren't of the fairs characterising of their of their opponents. But you know there's a tendency to just sort of take, I think, take a lot of things for granted that you shouldn't take for granted. Like Lucia has an article today so he talks about how elon must get one point, you know, was tweet about how no way S P F would get charged because he's a democratic donor and a lot of the technical people, like took this line, sbf was charged.

They did not update the world view, right? And he talks about how, like democrats are getting charged under the biden administration, biden sun, his own sun, nobody on earth believes Donald trump would ever let his own son get get charged with something when he had the position department. And not a single trump support in the world would say that they are only way they can explain hundred getting charges. They have to say, well, you know, it's a it's a deep state to string. I don't know.

They they have to have some kind of theory because they can make an equivalent with with crop, right? So these basic things that like IT when you're mad left this, when you see them being woke, when you see them mean, especially if you someone like elan and you're fighting the regulatory state all day and you know you move your company out of for at california because of all the copied restrictions and you see sort of how crazy there are. A lot of people we know they they send their children to send for school schools and god knows what they're teaching in the center of schools to little kids they they want, they just, they put IT all together and they say, this is the establishment.

These people are wrong. We need to get, we need to get rid of them, right? And then on the other side of all the left, I mean, the best of the left to establishment, I think they just sort of the first, all they see, see trump with with clear eyes, people says, tempted, trumped, arrangement, sym.

I don't think it's I think if you described this man objectively, you come across as because if I think he is what he is, what he is, and they sort of see that, like, know, these things aren't necessarily things we should take for granted, right? Will they be in institutional things? Now I don't.

And and and I think that they, you know, a lot of them are sort of, if you talk to them issue by issue, you might say, well, space sex, you might go to them and say, SpaceX wants to do a rocket launch and go, you was posting the other day that they have to they have to take the seals and they have to keep up the seals and see if that bothers them. I think if you show them like that issue in isolation, they would they would grant you okay. If you take them and say all they were masking kids in california for two years after covering, they probably say, okay, you're write on that.

They can see the individual cases were sort of regulation has gone uh, wrong or kind of the way our government in our system Operates. They're not seeing necessarily the big picture that a lot of the stuff is begin in the democratic party, to a large extent, is captured by some of the worst interest groups out there. I was I was paying attention to the dark workers, the long, short man strike a couple weeks ago.

And, you know, some people told me on twitter, like I could use a work to all of SHE comes out against long for man. And I said, maybe because this is an interesting test, because you have kala saying things that sound more moderate, SHE doesn't going to take more input from business leaders, know so forth. Could SHE chAllenge a union? Could SHE chAllenge an interest cup on her own side? No, she's came out fully in support of a long, short men and sorted by.

And so you know, when I go back to twenty two, twenty, twenty one, like, you know, they wouldn't stand up to the teachers unions. I see the same thing. I see the same thing here. I think they're still sort of and thorough of the worst interest groups.

And you know a lot of that the best of the left will recognize when masking children are you know opposing automation at the ports that the lunch man are just they are just completely they just don't believe in technological progress, no a Smith and as reclined and metals. So they're going they're not going to support that. But I don't think they understand like the people on their side are just, you know, they can have their like little debating club about and their substances about what's good policy or not. Unfortunately on the ground is that the worst people on the democratic party um are often in control yeah.

what do you say to the people on the right way? Says something. You know, the models of them might say, hey, generic was really bad insane bad truck is a recoding ball of yeah is very bad that this election about who's worse and there's something about the democrat 4 terms of you， you look at date like the russia gage of the peaches, the tracked oil, just things that go beyond what what trap himself for the republican party has done time of severing basic, you know, no know, the more like the defect core than more like do. Do you think that's bad?

I generally think the increase is a proof trust argument that I sympathy with that I even make myself on some days, depending on home, feeling on that, right? I don't believe, I don't argument, but I I think it's respectable. It's the trump is awful.

But democrats are, you know, are the anti progress party of the people of high taxes, high regulation that are the extreme safety, an oppressive regulator's state that doesn't let you do great things that wants to am prediction markets in in most cases and not not the democratic judge actually just legalize prediction markets, but in in most cases, and basically just has the extreme safety, extreme sort of this world duo that will lead us to being required ze staging and kind of kind of country, right? And so grana crop is bad. Here's all things.

Democrat bench. Pero, just have a few g he said, no, I don't care about the know or six whatever I was in and just and my friend got mugged by a bunch of black guys and that's what people can. Now I don't think trump is like gonna something about black guys mugging, bench peer's friend.

And I think that we overate crime as far as the an issue in the presidential election, I mean, I don't think that has much influence, but that's that's the idea, right? It's it's not now any any kind of what i'm not so of synthetic that what i'm not sympathetic towards is any argument that tries to excuse trump. Any one thing that tries to make a comparison between trump literally trying to overthrow the government in twenty twenty and democrats impeaching him for trying to over through the, that's the least that they have that's at least that kind of time right to be and the ukraine.

yeah.

he was he he's on tape. He's on tape saying he's driving a foreign leader saying, take up dud on my enemy think this is a close call when he was on the phone with go at people who haven't listened to his conversation on the phone with the secretary of state of georgia. Just listen to the second I heard that I was just done with any kind of apology ics for the way he the conversation because you know you're gna get in.

He's like, threatened him. He's like and you know you're going, you're onna get in trouble. If you know there's fun, you're gna get in trouble.

All I need is tend, you find me ten thousand votes. It's like what would IT take to convince you people that like this guy like doesn't care about like election raud. It's not like a good faith, a top to get to the bottom of the election.

He just wants to overthrowing and doesn't care how we still and really to threat people and use whatever tools he has. So this is very bad. And like russia gate, okay, like there are some things that were to the media, there was an investigation and investigation, you know didn't didn't find that much.

He wasn't charged IT was there was done through the legal processes, you know and back, by the way, I mean, trump a point in the tourney general, a turney general, you know they had they had A A special council. So there was like, you know a process to the some kind of legality, some kind of logic. And by the way, two thousand and nine I and the the democrats will talk about more right after the Miller report came out.

Well, republicans continue to deny elections. Trump now just still says, if I know jesus counted the vote, he told doctor, if jesus counter the vote, I would win california. I mean, this guy is like, doesn't even pretend.

He doesn't pretend to believe in that. He doesn't pretto believe he believes in any system other than trump wins, right? And like, so IT drives me crazy when people try. It's like, imagine of comalong herri when around saying I want texas, I want that you would think he was a mental patient, right? Like he's just so beyond like anything that anyone else is like.

So like, okay, you look, you overlook all that you want to get to mars, elon, you want elon, and you roll of the government, uh, rather than the rand wine garden with the lady who runs the biggest teachers union. Like, okay, like, that is reasonable. Reanimation government.

Trump, like, comparing profitably. Like, like, no, I just don't think you could do that. I'd be intellection honest.

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a few hours with with elon or kind of a broader tech right that I mentioned before and you're trying to sway down to come delivered closed to your side on some of these broader but you know most important topics. How might you try to persuade the think there might be simply yeah.

I mean, that's good at question. I think that in the case of you on I think a lot of guys, these guys see themselves as IT. Would I think I would be very hard because I I think a lot of them them see trump now is a vessel for their old power and to convince them maybe you shouldn't have absolute power and is probably like a hard thing to sell something like a bus god.

And so you know, it's it's it's difficult, you know I don't know like I don't know how to like frame IT in a way that like is especially gear towards that audience. If you have sort of a personal stake in in the outcome of all this, you know I would say that like no, maybe I would try to think like, okay, like take the value system a lot. A lot of a technic people have.

You want stable societies, you know, you need the sort of underlying society stability in order to do life extension mars. I have the things you happen to be dreaming about. And I just point out like how historically rare an institution that is as good as the new york is, like just Frankly, like is something as good as the new work times that you don't have that in the development group, you don't have the conservative media.

Like I would keep pointing out like how bad now a lot of these guys are retreated counter. So maybe they think that's like actually a great source of information is Better than the new year k times. And if there that far gone, I don't really know what to do.

But I I would stress this, like you guys care about, civilization is the precondition for those things you care about. See what our society has gone right. And like fight these left us and situations where you need to, but don't just don't give into ideas, don't give in to ideas of all the idea that like, from should just veit in front T, V for four years, and you should just run the government. And that's all we need to fix.

The world is IT fair to say that over the past few years or so, the of the human tape of view towards crime was closer, things like decal, the police are closer of, things like crime is complicated, and we and know properties oral approached sovecon, wherein common sense view is the locally view of pages, put criminals in jail, have very strong breath. And like, do you think that is a very deactivation of a crime specific verse of the intellectual view verse, or of the common sense view? And you think a lots of issues are kind of like that, where that this is like inflections al view this kind of divorce from from how is actually work?

Yeah I mean, I think that this is a good demonstration of situation where a human capital isn't always hurt. I can deny that the elite human capital position tends to be more tends to be software on crime. And I don't think that that's the correct position that I wrote some articles about bucci that is success in self adore.

And I think the state of the american in our cities truly is disGraceful. And so yeah I mean, a human capital I think is just reversed sort of force and adverse violence and sometimes that can be good like I don't think you are going to I don't think they're going to lock up and kill their enemies or or anything like that. I mean, the White people who live in urban centers are the most least violent demographic, know anywhere the yeah, but they have this sort of this sort pie in the sky ideas about crime.

And I don't think they I don't think they've worked. I think about being tough on crime works for obviously on just and issue you know, I don't think it's like inevitable that the human capital is going to go tourist defend the police stuff because you know, a couple decades new york city elected mike bomberg and really Juliana, and they came they came down hard on crime. I think this is not an issue.

I think that the masses are probably ly always going to be more indication than elite human capital who just you know human instinct just so of just sort of just sort of is tilted the direction of engines and to the degree to the which and the human capital is sort of divorced from human nature. IT can be a refections a little bit. It's going to be a little bit more understanding of criminals unless you have some ideological reason not to be which you need.

Human capital sometimes does. I mean, communist states are often, uh are often sometimes the human capital comes to power. They're very tough on crime because they have the larger vision of like the way society should be.

But yeah, I think a little human capital is is at this point in history wrong and crime. But even you can argue with, you can argue with them about that. I mean, there are have been like even the death on the police stuff.

I mean, they've gone far, pretty far away from that. If you look at local elections in some places, caring basin. L, A, who who be OPPO was more crime, but she's a little bit and crime direction.

A of the elli, I think in california. L coni. We're going about to put on our district.

Chourineur is very soft on crime. He just survived the recall and the same for school. D A.

What is he was also recalled when the lose like or he was recalled. So there is yeah there are some there are some corrective mechanisms with a human capital. But yes, I I tend to think they're too soft on time.

So if we're just talking, you lead to a capital in your view IT. Would you say they're y've be wrong on you not describe the gender, race, know, baby, sometimes a little too too much government intervention and regulation or you market intervention in general, but they've been right on things like migration and trade and a reproductive rights. What else would you add to the sort of telling what be wrong right about?

Yeah I mean, I I don't know, I don't know. It's like that useful to just have a list of like E, H, C is correct on this and wrong on, wrong on that. I mean, you can come up with I can come up with five things that they're right down and five things that they're are wrong on.

You know, i'm sort of interested in the analysis from the perspective of like what kind of what kind of people are inevitably get a rule and like how can we influence them and what is the relationship to the rest of society. So like even even the market stuff is not is a little a bit more complicated because like when when coal heros starts talking about Price controls, they you know the media, the coverage in the media, washington got washington post and it's a very host. It's I got the experts say this is wrong, something like ibis m nothing in left towing ideology you say, oh, this is no right.

Would maybe more proposing with santa? Nothing in less wing ideology will tell you to be a yb. They're usually four restrictions and usually anti market.

But you know, you are getting these reforms in california and elsewhere in the nb has sort of become the mainstream position in the media. And so yeah no, I think there I think even the even the stuff where they're wrong, I think there is a tendency towards correction. There are some things that there are sort of systematically wrong about.

Thank you know, we have to think about all these things also to think about like what is the what is the role of the human couple? What should they be doing rather than tweet all day, treeing fake news, soft day and getting millions of followers? Like how can we channel them in a different direction? Not not like give the sensors, the disinformation experts, all the power and probably don't want to do that.

But you know, sort of thinking about, like what does that mean that like a lot of people are looking camp? I think I would prefer problem. I thought about this a little bit problem, prefer that kind of deep tisza.

I mean, I, I, I look back, there is different history layer as I look back to my child. Hod, I can remember the nineteen nineties when regular people didn't get too excited about politics. And if you did, you weird. And I think that's probably the best thing we can hope for.

Yeah, the even after time, do you envision sort of the the tech right gaining gain power? You know, like you on types, you know, J, D, read about J. D. Vance, whether he represents her of the tech right or of status right. How do you think about how I could play out?

Yeah, I mean, we will see. I mean, you want to sort of his own category and you talk about the tech, right? But the fact that owns twitter, that's big. I mean that that's that's a obviously a very big deal. And so it's going to be interesting.

I mean, if trump were like, so either way, elon mosques going to be there, he's going to own these companies and he's either gona be like with a trumped administration trying to do all these things with influence, or fighting a Harry administration on all these things and having sort of twitter in his pocket and being able to sort of mobilize the right against, you know, anything that the government wants to do that is against his know is perceived interest. And so yeah, I think almost the elon question is more interesting. I don't know like the tech or like you know no defenced any of the other guys, but.

You know there may be till I mean made jay event. So I mean that's obviously a big deal and you know almost got black masters, the political miracle le of a lifetime. And so like that's that's obviously big deal.

But you know to the extent other otherwise like these, otherwise, are they going to be like major, you know, major like cultural figures? Or are they just because, you know, a lot of them were to send us elon and sex from month decentish in the end, the low human capital capers, the college you could, the republicans did not for the centres ornik. I hilly and the non college, which was a lot more than voting for, I don't know, about truck primary voters actually, whatever.

Truck got a lot more than non college educated voters, and they ended up, you know, hitching to the trump train, right? And so here that you do with these guys are on the right now, but to the degree to which they can actually shape the right is yet to be seen. Now, maybe just elon and sex, or can push any good.

They can push whether there once trump is going because trump s is such a force that like get up you on and set us and they all team up and they they can be trump and they just just owns the right and as long as he's there. And so what happens afterwards? Yeah I don't know. They're they're to have be a fluently al on the margins and will move the you know the leads more towards pro market positions.

Yeah, I think one thing good thing the tech right has done and the influence is, you know there was a sort of a more influence of these people, these kind of catholic iniquitous types, these american compass types who are more pro, you know, labor unions are more pro, you know, a sort of friendly to redistribution and administrative state. There's still, you know, these people are still around, but I think there's gonna less sympathy for that if the tech White guys are the major donors and the sort of the cultural you know influence on on the right. So I think on the margins to move people, you know that I think the more interesting question is like, is there after trump is there do they get just like more, Better human capital into the right?

I mean, is that has that happen immediately? I mean, you know, the lions retreating captured lips of tiktok. And these are the people who have benefit most from the new order.

The whether like it's sort of become people see that, oh, you can be a smart person, you can do great things and be and be right wing. Does that change the culture? But that will take a little bit more time.

If, imagine if, if trumped, you know, pass away and a few great for IT once per eight and say, doesn't IT and in sort of this, a new slate and jd vis running, which is running, but also he is running and so of know more new count focus like sure is what you think happens then but they also IT turns popularity, but also may be given through libra. Just J. D. Vance and and you would you make a head from from your office of women you know, his future packs about .

yeah I mean, I think if trump wins know that to me it's very hard. I think the whoever that not many and twenty twenty eight problem loses republic nominee because like choppers, you can imagine him being a popular with president, and he's gonna unpopular no matter what did he going to be very seen. And four years and that's gonna make the party look really, really bad and there's going to be one scandal after after after another.

Um and so like you know and I think democrats like their bench of like the next person they're going to nominate, it's pretty strong. I mean, it's going to be someone like newsom or superior or White mr. It's going to be a moderate White person who is comes, you know, who in the case of superior White mr.

Was a governor of swing state or new, something I think is unusually high Chrism. And who comes all these people come across as modern. They don't come across as crazy. Left this, I think there will be very well, but it's a ln popular if trumps s the perfect. The democrats are probably in a very good candidate.

Twenty eight, I think now I can put money in twenty twenty eight election I got the democrats sub drop of mods that republicans have have more of a chance because he might be the unpopular president and then know she's going to run for the real election and so yeah I mean, what happens what happens in and twenty twenty eight? You know, I I think it's going to be it's going it's going to be interesting because these these people will probably get behind vans. I know I assume je vans is going to have his own.

I think change event. I means proud. Too early to talk like this. But like it's going if it's a crowded field and VS was usually the VP who was the last time usually gets IT.

And so if it's a crowded field, events has all these guys, he might not be popular like that brought public heat, might have an underwater approval rating, which he does right now and that might not change in four years. But yeah, I think it's you know, he's probably in a very good position. I don't think this like I didn't think this like a few weeks ago.

I looked like that was a really bad pet. I mean, I look like still that he might be might be a bad pig, you know. But like for a while and all anyone talked about was how really was and childless catholics, he's rendered himself somebody really in a good debate performance.

He you know he seems very articulate compared to trump and so I think even if he's not that popular in the public public, I think conservatives aren't under the impression that he's just you know, a horrible candidate who can who can go anywhere and so yeah he's a very well positioned and yeah I mean, IT be it'll be just as a sort of like trump in that he's he's singular and that he's like he's like in a very sort of it's a it's a very weird thing because I burden about vance and he's got these tech guys and I talk I talk about how they're like a positive influence of like you don't being pushed, keeping conservatives in the process direction. But you listen to Evans talk and he doesn't talk like that. He talks like kind of, you know you economic laughter sometimes if you go to congress, I think he votes against you know, labor unions.

He is like perfectly poor rating. No, he ends up supporting you know you might just say this is just sort of he's like a smarter tropper that he just talks like a populous but the governance like like a like a free marketer, like maybe maybe that's maybe that's the end of it's a it's like a smarter drop, but like you know just more attractive. But the same time, I don't think vance is I don't think vance is not genuine because that implies is not genuine.

And from knowing him and from seeing him, I think he's genuine. So is the part of heart. Can I want to make .

all that yeah we have up there whether he will represent or the rise in the tech right? Or just more mistakes yeah I mean.

I think he'll somehow justified and I think is going to do the tech, right? This somehow justice IT is mind that I think SHE is a complicated guy. So who knows? There was a no there know he seems genuine.

He seems to genuinely got up his wait. So like saying nice things about like a liza but more which I don't think has like any political that should but like you know fish have a new stuff that makes more, more and happy. You know got to help us. We don't want that the future public .

party great talk about the differences between a uh, combo presidency and a trap presidency in the next term. Is that the counter factual? Where are the outcome that are most likely to be different for a depend ding who with yeah I mean.

it's interest. I started with things that I think I ve probably more certain and less stern. I mean, your taxes will go up under kalo just because the original cuts are expiring and so we'll have to negotiate something new.

And probably, you know the higher n ers like you, erica, are probably going to have to pay, uh, a lot more and maybe maybe some of the rest of the public tale. And so we can see that. I mean, the sort of you probably get me know more deregulation under trump will get more conservative judges, if you like, what conservative judges have been doing in recent years, years.

You'll more of that if you don't like IT, you'll get you know less of that. And so there's that I mean, on foreign policy, I think on israel, you're probably going to see some kind of metal. You're going to see a sort of a continuation of the biden presidency, I think with trump.

I mean, trump s is just a very, very poisonous. And I think is the us. Gonna all in on israel like they did there and trump first church.

So that's going to be a major difference. The ukraine thing is interesting because trump is surrounded by hawks in his party. His instincts are to cut off ukraine.

Not not care about what happens to them. So which which side sort of gets its way. It's going to be I I guess, that kind of IT dobeen and open question. I think that though, you know that the trump thing, if you want entertainment, if you just want to be entertaining, I something like forty three out of forty six of people he appointed, like we know for his cabinet, like are not supporting him this time, or like actively opposed to him and he noticed this and he's just got out point people who are just gonna do what he wants.

And this is going to create tension within the system because he's going to be increasingly see now, but increasingly sure, like of himself and like what he's going to be doing in the government. And so yeah I I think it's going to be sort of craze. Remember the first drop administration IT was one scandal after another.

Um we're gonna are going to get it's going to be more of that again. I think he probably has a historically bad mid term, you know, first, and presidents always have that term after being elected. He's going to be no exception to that know in twenty eighteen after chop.

And they've been doing partly in metro elections since from so it's gona have a lot of sort of checking is power manet's to his unpopularity is going to is going to trickle down to the rest of the ticket. And so yeah, I I I might write about this going to be checked within within the government. I don't think necessarily like some people say, a workers will pop back up like we will go back to two thousand and twenty, twenty.

Trump is elected again. I don't believe that. I think there's been a kind of burn out. I I don't think that people can maintain sort of the level of frenzy we've had for like you know, I don't think just burned out anyway everything. I burned twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two, twenty twenty five， twenty twenty six.

I think people I was a sort to be over the truman show and he's got some kind of you know this kind of like joe rogan flash, you know the elon sort of male influence or space where the crump is a little bit cool. I mean, is not cool like, no, it's not like the Young, like everything to me, but like a certain of culture he is. So it's not like this clear thing.

We're like everyone to lead to, everyone Young and everyone cool is is anti trump. Some of them are road trump. And so like you don't have this sort of unified larger culture, this unified sort of youth culture and a leap culture that is still ted against strong. So I think I think either way, politics becomes a less central part of our lives. You know I think that that's probably a good thing and a reason .

to be optimistic. Yeah for sure. I want to focus foreign icy for a second admired, saying that john vir. Shema believes that on ukraine, russia, we helped instigate and examination that that conflict know more than IT should have been. And if we adapted differently, you know, a lot of a bit prevented. And that also in the israel sort of you seven, that I think he believes that we are almost compromise in our ability to get to correctly ascertained what we should do because I think he believes jews of too much like power and the new government for policy.

I don't think you put that like that, but you you can yes.

how would you added is the character zone of his view and how you fox.

yeah. I mean, I I took a class with more timer back at the university of chicago. I take a graduate, some great power politics, and I think some of his someone has critics of the of the policy in ukraine are are sensible.

I mean, i've seen, i've seen, I listen to interviews with people who are in the government and you know, they thought they knew truck, they knew pom was going invade in in early twenty twenty two and you know they they for bio accounts, they never took any off. You just try and just say neither of laws of the table, right? Baby, put in in vase, anyway, maybe, but he was worth IT was worth a try and they they never tried that.

They were connected. They were attached to this moral vision. Like pun has no right to tell ukraine what kind of alliance that makes, which is, which is right, which is morally, you know, correct?

I think that a lot of people have this comfort was sort of mercer. And a lot of these other people who are more anting is they think that they are too, almost not ruling further russians creating as kind of moral equivalent. And oh, U.

S wants ukraine to be like a free country and decide russia what's to just dominated forever. Well, it's interest. We each sort of ideas, and I think most people are uncomfortable with that, and they don't think that sort of a more legitimate position to take a work. And mercy yma will do, mercy mer will do this thing where he will be like, i'm a realest, you know, what does your morals have anything do with them? But then he will talk about, you know, what's israel is doing to gaza and suddenly realize the way this guy has like a moral sense too, right?

He just has like, you know, if if something supports sort of theories or vision of the way the world works, know you use moralistic arguments so again, i'm sure he would say that you know, what's happening in gaza is a disGrace, that we've a bet at something terrible over there. And so yeah, I mean, I think there's legitimate point he makes them about run up to the warn ukraine. I don't think that necessarily follows that we do nothing now because there is a war going on in ukraine in is defending itself and you know what, you know you can negotiate something.

But I think ukraine e, it's going to always, it's always going to be a negotiating from a certain position. And they can negotiate from a position of strength. Ory can negotiate from a position of weakness.

And if the U. S. Is not going to provide them with arms and its arms.

And second, to provide with aid, no matter where the front line is, ukraine will always be a weaker position. I don't always have to give up more. So I think you have to negotiate.

But like you know, ideally you would both negotiate and support you crane to the health. And but people who people who wanted negotiate often don't want to. They wanted cut off ucar.

They just want basically you cramp to give up that the way that's the easiest weight in the war. So I don't I don't think that that's that's accept more on the israel thing. You know, i'm just a very big believer and civilization over barbarism.

I don't think this. I don't think you know, I don't think of the gaza. I mean, as as a society organized around know israel left, they could have tried to build a real society.

They either didn't want that through a logic and didn't want that, or they were there under the control of islamists, who will create no opportunity for that. And israel has to, in the end of itself, IT needs. In the end, that needs to work to remake palestinian culture.

And that doesn't mean they like go in and like when the schools or something IT means they just keep killing people until they do something different. And I think that that I think that what were the, you know, the thing is ago, you see that the biden administration, these jaks, all of us at these types of their, like, we need to work with this. You know, these really seems to work with paly means to have a political solution, a new, a new government.

And it's like homes is there, you're fighting them. You're going to bringing in a palestinian from the west banker anywhere and you're going to say this is the you'll be killed the first day. There's just there's literally nothing that you can use.

There's nothing you can do. There's no political solution as long as hamas is there, right? And so yeah, I mean, israel needs to keep finding, the U. S. Needs to keep supporting as real.

I mean, they would came out a waste journal story about the killing of, yeah, he simwa and basically he was citing american humAnitarian pressure on israel for the, you know, for the idea that, you know, the palestine should hold up, right? This is strategy. The strategy is the high civilians rely on sort of humAnitarian impulse coming out from the west to try to pressure israel.

And that just creates bad. And that just make sure these labels are always in power, are always able to be group for the next war and eventually know the existence. I don't think you could take as rose existence and definitely in the future for granted.

I don't see iran having much of an appetite for any kind of major x escalates. They have this very sort of, you know, managed strikes on israeli, send all these missile and like you one of them, more head or something and shoot all down, and then will send a message, you know, through a third party to the U. S.

A. Okay, that's IT off. And so they seem to just be, you know, doing enough to sort of try to save face as much as possible. And so whether you know whether israel should strike, I don't know. You would have to like that.

I would need to know what information they have about like the nuclear program and where if iran really wants a nuclear program or if they're going to go forward and what if israeli strikes could even stopped that. I mean, that's a very sort of you need that specific information to to make any kind of decision like that. But yeah, I think that like what the trip administration proved was like you can build a broad, broad coalition against, uh, iran, right? The senior updates don't like iran.

They they fear iran. And between them and israel you could have a broad coalition. You can even make peace between the the israelis and many the arab states.

And know the one of the motivations behind that over seven was to head that off, to head off any kind of israeli Sunny piece still on. The people on the left might say, well, that's a good reason to give the palace is today, I don't think a palace is, stay is possible. I have an article in White palestine, deliver can tell them for peace. And so you have to sort of get the palestinians uia under control, that the best you can do, and hopefully try to make peace in the region based on Mitchell, send self interest in this broad and ian coalition.

You wrote a post about why americans should support ukraine, and my til gear of the cost of the idea that people need enemies. Yeah, enemies are what what goalie's people. And bring out the best soon in ourselves in terms of preparing for bear bus. And if you're gonna enemies, you might as well make them other craic dictators like like in how would you added that that decision?

Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's that's right. I mean, article was called by market should die with for ukraine, which is sort of, you know, a little bit tongue cheek, has a very funny I generated image and i'm very proud of that. People can go can go look at which makes the, which makes the entire article yeah you look at like american and I just reading A A book called the conservative future is that this name is James.

But the cocos had basically, you know, he he talks about sort of these cycles, know this sort of cycles of american history, about how amErica was really about the future that was like in one hundred fifties and maybe early one thousand nine hundred and sixties, by late one thousand and sixty, one thousand nine hundred and seventy will become very pessimistic. Ninety nineties we become optimistic. And again, and I was thinking about, like you, what is sort of a the throw line here? And I just realized that, like, the first wave of optimism was because we want world war two.

The second wave of optimism was because we won the cold war. And if you don't have these things, sort of the memories, the memories kind of fade. And I think you can charactery sort of tribes and politics by who they make the enemy.

So the left is the White teda sexy penri. On the right, IT really is just this kind of, you know, entitlement. Just hating liberals are.

Foreigners to a large exchange, trump advance. Every problem is immigration or or or trade. And these are think are not healthy outlooks.

And I think they're just bad. I think there's just bad models in the world. And you have I listed like the political, you know, the political tribes, and they are all who their enemies are.

And right prop is an enemy of like the other people, and crop is the hero and everyone against trump in the deep state of the enemy and in the protruding mpt tribe. And you know, if you're going to help, if if that's what we need, you know, I think the best thing to do is give people an enemy who's actually deserves to be hated. That is actually like evil, right? It's all like kim jung on right, pun shein pin.

You know, these are these are bad guys doesn't mean we go we go to war with all of them today. But if you're going to pick between like the different enemies, I think that's like, you know that's that's at least the right just until except the people like cava desire to be part of history, I mean history's being made in like you know ukraine, when when ukraine is finding russia, I would say we take as real size of people say, you know civilian, we should take you know the facility inside. The case of humans, it's a lower conversation, but I think we should be at the promise real side.

So you know if you need that, like meaning if you need that enemy channel into that, don't channel into, I don't know, like electric workers in a you know they just stuck a really, really Juliana osa kind of definition suit and he's giving them is like mercy's bends and he's given them as condo. These just like random black electrical workers from from my later. And it's like that this is what people are sort of into IT just becomes so stupid and fundamentally unhealthy. So you know to the extent that you need an enemy, yeah I think for four autograft, you know play great like you wrong like another not that tough like they're very evil and hable, but like you can kill them and nothing happens yet. Maybe that's a that's a good enemy to have that .

we have these sort of international instincts to to outcast the other, blame the other. We ve overcorrected too much on the sort of going back crying where, you know, people, you are leaving capitals while afraid to call out sort of, you know, black finals because of our family around that, in a way that leads us to sort of not solve the problem.

But that may think weh the offset of immigration, where were too likely to call out people earth, you know, think negatively of of people who come here legally or illegally. And I curiously, you think about in europe, there are immigration chAllenges of the most population coming out of mass in certain places. Do you think? Do they were all created too much like like we've done with black criminals? And do you think they are, sorry, doing this, making the same mistakes that americans are making when they're blaming the immigration for their problems?

Yeah, I think in the case of europe, I think there's there's a more legitimate concern. So I did a big piece on immigrant crime. And immigrant crime is not a problem in the united states, is actually lower second generation of of hispanics, little bit higher.

But god, just worrying that like a group is going to be ten percent or criminal one generation in the future is not something like the biggest. You a possible thing you should be, you should be worried about. You look into europe and like you look at like to extend you have statistics on like north africans and africans some hair, africans criminal.

It's like seventy. I know it's just it's just something like you know it's just a an incredible gap. And you know these these are a lot of these, uh a lot of these muslim populations are hostile to the browser population.

Part of IT is the european labour market, which I think doesn't do a good job of facilitators immigration. And so europe, I think has different immigration chAllenges. I know haven't been keeping up that much of that. That seems to me in that in the case of germany, IT seems to me like they've really actually like reduce immigration was the mortal thing was seems like I was a kind of like one time flood that seems to not have been continuing, although I haven't look at look too closely the data.

But a lot of these cases are not like, if you know the french guess workers, they came like a wave, and the germans, they had, you know, they had the syrian and these afghan refugees that came in this wave. And so yeah IT IT produces other chAllenges. I think europe has these changing demographics.

And in the context of like just a very stagnant society, the economist um latest issue is just very good of the instinct of american the the american economy compared to europe. And you look at like the top companies in amErica there like an a video and apple, and you look at europe and they're like necessary and like glue aton. I mean, like two of the top five and it's like this is not the future like this, just choin and handbags.

And so yeah, I mean, I think that the combination of changing demographics and just like a society that sort of turned against progress I made, it's like not just like one policy of the german stuff is insane. I mean, they shut other nuclear power the exact same time. You know they lost the access of the guest to russia.

The economy is actually supposed to shrink this year, right? Not not even grow with zero point one percent. It's it's going to strip while russia, by the way, kids go something like three four, three four percent.

And so yeah, this seems like a cultural rot. I mean, that receives just to be these forces that are just very, very entire progress. And I don't know. I mean, you just might be a cultural problem at this point.

Speaking of of demographics, you wrote about why east asia has low, low fermi. Can you share your findings there? And does the person thing for what we're having low for city all over the world?

yeah. I mean, I think the thing about east asians, I mean, there's they are I think one thing that you can explain east asia that I think covers a lot of ground, and like actually just explains like tons and tons of data, is that they are just outliers, human outliers on conformity. Any stage I got about japan, korea, china mainly.

And what does that mean? Rock bottom crime rates. Rock bottom drink, right? Like beah, I have all these charts of like different behaviors that are sort of proxies for risk taking.

Then like there's y're very smart and they have like a lot of patterns and like these companies like like samsung and SONY. And so far but like you know as far as like overall rates of entrepreneurship, not very high. And know these companies are just establish corporations that people go to and they work.

You know they can do math and science, but know they set of these corporations for the rest of, know for the rest of their lives and their entire careers. And so fertility, I think, is sort of like that. IT is sort of interesting.

I mean, japan look at their tfr. The of just people who like babies produce to to married the couples. I think it's about like equal to the U.

S. If you just come america, if you don't count like out of what like birth because they have zero out of like birth, right? And the U.

S. Is like thirty or forty percent out about like birth. And that makes up the difference between them and us. Now korea is even lower korea. You know, it's like point seven.

So like even if you just look at look at married, but these states have no out of a black birds you know at all. It's one two percent. And so fertility is sort of a IT is sort of a non conformance thing to do.

Like in america, in the west, a lot of the people who have a lot of kids are non conformance to society. Ea Christians, catholic trades are the elon must ask pregnant, you know, every woman who comes who comes by, right? There's just some kind of like you know unusual kind of kind of procedure or community.

And so they don't have this. And this is why, like I looked at some historical data, which is very crazy, which is like these e station countries, they had the highest marriage rates and they know the highest rates of women living with a partner, know, like the one hundred and fifteen and sixty sixties if you go back that far. And now they're like the lowest.

And so what happens when the conform? This thing was to get married and have a lot of kids. They they tend to to do that. And now when the sort of counter cultural thing is to have lot of kids, now they have rock bottom fertility. So I think korean and korean, the east asian conformity goes a long way to explaining, explaining things, because these are these things that require, I say, when there's not a script like they tend to find like stations are very good at um going to school and like graduating with a stem degree and go going work for a corporation. Not so good uh not so good at necessarily given level education intelligence going off to starting a company and doing the thing, although some people do that obviously.

And then it's the same thing with sort of you know when there's a kind of like standard script of how you date and how you are meet people and like it's arranged marriage or it's very formalized, they will do that when it's like find a partner and settle down and have kids, that there seems to be a lot more trouble with that. And what what that implies for the west? Yeah, I don't know.

I think they just, I don't know if IT reticent, early applied as much as because we were so culturally distant, all sort of going in the same direction. We all have the same problems. They're just sort of an outlier. Like explain why there such an outlier, I thought was an interesting question, which is why I thought about IT.

IT really stood another post you about which they goes by, the title of do we need sports batting to get tomorrow? For which I took this idea. You know, if you want the benefits that come with high vary culture, you also have to, uh, you know if the negatives you for people think that they can be the next once they have to be able to uh you know fall flat on their face and you know, get dict to help is something or or maybe in order to see get you on less, we did cater.

Yeah, I mean, in musket cat, you're right. I mean, they would shut out the old musket, but the part of the cities will shut out the other mosy. They would shut out cat turn.

Do we want to know, remove both of their voices from the public square? That's that's the question. yeah. I think this kind of high variance culture is what we have in amErica like we have like the most billion areas of the big corporations and the most murders of people. And some people say this is ridiculous.

You born on no, of course you could bet sports that egg you could crack out of the burner like, you know, you can still have like proposals, policies that the economic growth that's that's true. You know that that sounds true. At the same time, there is just sort of A A vibe of society.

Like, do we as a society, are really the kind of people who get to other people's businesses and tell them to stop doing things that are bad for them or bad for even for society? Or do we just say, go for, do we have a default for freedom? And like maybe, but ideally we get things like perfectly correct, but that's hard to do, right is just a society sort of governed by vives. And so if we have to pick vives, but maybe it's not a collide service that we have all these terrible outcomes.

but all these great outcomes at the same, the same with all right, trans are excessive sort of first critical thinking on gender. Race IT enables thinking.

And if you look at like the anti woke ness, you know, Walker takes over the world, you listen to the anti walks in europe. They're using the exact same names from reno, fox news and truck, right? And you know, so it's like, yeah, we have all the vries.

We have the this thing and we have the resistance to this. You know, big thing is taking over the world. You know the third socialist and you know they're getting their ideas from the from the west and so are, you know, Kelly and castro is getting ideas from the worst that casts castro is dead, but you know that amErica left us and then do kay. And like mile, mile is not reading with one misses and these these radical and like IT for six policy. So yeah, we're the we're the sort of we're the found of like all you know basically everything I will say everything important happened, but a lot that's important .

happened in the world maybe closing on of human capital curious where you differ with with berna um in this who also this idea sort of an old dark or technocracy rope that right about everything so yeah my did did I like my was I was may be a little .

but too tough maybe was just that was too punchy of of a headline I I don't remember the exact exact title that sounds like something I could have ring but a much I do remember the article though yeah but dom is not a thinker who focuses much on psychology or like a differences between individuals. There are systems in america. There are still.

There is the the businessman. There is the elite. There is the manager, erik elite, that sort of struggling for power. And these class struggles, and sort of our Marks, is kind of philosophy like that. More humans are sort of treated no interchange ably.

My world do is like heavy of human psychology and heavy on sort of differences between groups and sort of the norms and the culture that they that they develop, right? And Alberta, I I think like this thing, this river versus village, or this tech ride versus establishment kind of thing that we're seeing IT really doesn't fit into that because burden would have predicted by now twenty twenty h four. My god, you know, new dealers, you their descendants have totally crushed the private opposition.

And we don't see that. We see you on mask, one man can buy twitter and totally change the um conversation. right? So I think that there there's like burns the burden predictions, which I think he didn't necessarily get right. And then there is, I think the lack of sort of psychology in the in these theories that are that are weakness.

Yeah yeah. Is there anything we haven't covered that you think is important to to get into as as going over some of the the main ideas that you ve had in the past? You must .

really, I mean, everything that pops into my head you'll find IT on twitter. You'll find IT on on substate. Yeah, we're going to have an election soon.

I'm very excited. It's fun. I have no idea. I never had an election or I had such little idea always going to happen.

I wouldn't not be surprised if trump one by five. I wouldn't be surprised if common one five. I be a little bit more surprised.

I wouldn't be that shocked. You know, we had radical the polls, radical understand, prompt, the two times he ran. But we had had the polls underestimate democrats since the jobs decision.

So but now we have like it's like these two like principles that like one has to be right as wrong, is that the jobs is that the is the sort of the the realignment is going to make these all these high, these high pressure ity voters come out, mobile, low procure voters like trump, they come or will like the trump suni come in. And the polls show them, you know, exactly tide and pretty much every suing state. And there are reasons that can go but in either direction.

So I just want everyone to know that I am very excited. I enjoy myself. I enjoy watching this stuff. I don't have as much of emotional advance, is a lot of people do other people to extend. You can just sort of enjoy the show.

Well, well. And are you worried about the the biden judges and effects laws alth taxes to our death penalty? You know, mutual friend of our said maybe you're undertake the the potential harm our potential risk enable like these.

These are oh, no, I think I think it's bad policies. I mean, I think about the kind of bad policies that I think some of our friends think that like democrats are gonna lock them all up or something like that. I think that they tend to be historical.

But like just like getting the you know and I growth policies, like going to do worry about them shutting down free speech like I I feel pretty secure with substantive you noting in twitter, I feel pretty secure that the'd be certain cases, maybe the White house pressure. This is that um I don't think they're going to implement some kind of you know rate of terror on us. But yeah, I think a lot of you know I think you're going to have bad and take growth policies and that's a negative. The reason to be you know has a supporting democrats, of course.

is fair to say that basically on mother thinks that couple of winning is sort of the end of the and the Smith thinks truck waiting and you proteid, uh risks the end of our our democracy that years kind of like IT won't be that bad .

either way basically. Yeah I mean, one election is not you know it's it's unlike, I mean, everyone thinks that in the election year I think that there right I think I know a Smith types in I write about trumps and tensions there is bad as can possibly be. But you know I think that things were mostly, things were mostly hold on these two of the common reasons he's too stupid and will get a brain to to follow through on all that much.

And it's going to know he's declining over time. He's declining right before right before our eyes. I don't even understand sort of the elon month.

This will be the last of I answer of, think that's just happen, election year propaganda a, this will be the last after if I going to legal alist, all the immigrants. And then like within one election cycle, there will be so many of them. There will be no swing states left.

This is what, this is what he wants. Yeah, I need a hard permit even like, understand, like they're not. First of all, they are going to legal lize all the things that you need, congress, the republican going to have to set IT.

And so he cut, like, he cut you to latter, like legalize everyone. They takes a while to get like registered, involve the politics once they are illegal. Zed, and so and statics often vote, you know, either we'll see, will see what trump gets, but you know sometimes so republican.

And so yeah, I mean, I I think the thread of the left is something like europe. Pe, I don't think it's rain of terroristic c and stalin or pull pop. You know, I think it's the I think it's the sort of antigen wth neurotic interest group labor unions, a public sector control society, and that's a bad enough outcome. I mean, I think that that's something that's worth fighting to avoid.

You don't buy the study argument some people make that at age of seventy eight, trump, has you undergone a lot of spiritual wth and more high integrity person that used to be.

You just listen to a yeah you could really see that IT is lady as leader talking about add power junkin that stuff yeah he seems very, very received to mature .

a lot well on that note. So the next time we d have, we will have a new president in office and will talk with that means Richard, think so much for for come of the podcast always.

yeah. Thank you, eric.

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