#46 - How To Know When To Quit A Good Job That Makes You Unhappy with Juhi Saha
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Welcome to the In Bloom podcast, where we are exploring what it means to design a truly fulfilling life. I'm Ella, your host. Have you ever felt caught in between following the path somebody else said was right for you and listening to your inner voice? Maybe you've checked all the boxes, the incredible college, the prestigious career. Maybe you're just now starting to climb up the corporate ladder. Maybe you've been doing that for a while, but something still feels missing in your life.

Today, we're diving into what happens when we dare to redefine success on our own terms. I'm joined by Juhi Saha, an incredible woman, CEO of PartnerOne, who has spent years building an impressive career at companies like Microsoft, Intel, Qualcomm. But after experiencing the profound loss of both her father and her brother, Juhi made a decision that surprised everyone, including herself. She walked away from the security of the corporate life to build something entirely new.

Fast forward to now, her company, PartnerOne, was recently recognized by Microsoft as one of only five companies key to the success of their global partner ecosystem. Today, she shares how she built a company that holds her own values, a company that prioritizes real work-life flexibility. She shares the importance of having tough conversations, about the importance of owning your ambition, and how losing her closest family members transformed her definition of a well-lived life.

Today's conversation will remind you, if nothing else, that success is not about checking society's boxes. It's about having the courage to design a life that feels true to you, even when that means taking the road less traveled. Let's get into the episode. You are excellent. You become unforgettable. Welcome to Indie. I am your host, Leigh Boundary, and this is a Front Humanity Podcast.

Juhi, thank you so much for being here. I wanted to open up this episode with the question, how do you spend your time today? How do I spend my time today? Good question. So I am, my day job has me running a company globally. My not day job has me showing up as a mother to amazing little girls and

And in my non-existent free time, I do enjoy painting once in a while and doing things with my hands that don't have me in front of a screen. So that's how I spend my days. Yeah, a lot of times in front of a screen, having amazing conversations like this. So you are a CEO. What does that look like on a day-to-day level?

On a day-to-day level, it ranges from anything from the strategic side, we just got done with our strategic planning for 2025, to working with strategic partners, my company deals in partnerships and we work a lot with other companies, to working with my team that's all over the world, and of course working with clients and making sure they're getting the service they expect, they need, and their growth is set to take off.

Because that's what we do. We help B2B companies grow profitably through partnerships. And so we spend a lot of time working with other CEOs and other chief revenue officers on figuring out pathways to help their companies grow. That's awesome. How did you know that you wanted to start a company? Can you paint that journey for us?

It has been extremely nonlinear. I think when you and I were talking prior to just recording this, I was sharing that my father and my brother were entrepreneurs. And so I grew up with that and I saw how I only got to see the risky side of it because my dad, I didn't see my dad succeed till much later when I was in college. So I saw that riskiness and I was a little risk averse. So I followed the path.

The easy path. I grew up in another country. I wanted to immigrate to the U.S. So I got a scholarship. I went to college here, became an engineer, rose up through the corporate ladder, eventually got my citizenship and I stayed on. But how do I say this? Entrepreneur. Maybe we can edit out the how do I say this bit?

For me, entrepreneurship was unexpected. My brother and father passed within two years of each other and it was very sudden and it really had me think, take a step back and think about what was important in life. And I realized that what my dad had been telling me all along, which was you are not cut out to work for someone else, was very true. And I am a builder. I love building things.

So when the company I was working for got acquired, I decided to not stay on, not join the company that was acquiring them, but instead to start my own company with a bunch of others and help other companies grow. Because that strategy, thinking about companies growing, learning about other companies, that's truly my zone of genius. And life's short. And I realized that I really, really wanted to

live it to the fullest and not live someone else's dream and not check the boxes that I was expected to check in life. So for me, entrepreneurship was not something intentional at the start, but it became very intentional later on. And it's a function of realizing really what matters to you and how long are you going to follow someone else's dreams versus yours?

I love that. And I'm going to touch on that in a minute. But you mentioned that your dad, that you saw the risky side of entrepreneurship more than you saw the success side. How did that impact you? And what was that like? Because

I mean, like that's, that's what people fear, right? It's that I'm going to risk a ton. I'm going to put a ton into this and then I'm not going to get much out of it. But did your dad have like a, a fire, like a passion? Like what was the thing that even though, despite the fact that he was risking a lot and despite the fact that he wasn't succeeding in the way that he necessarily wanted to, that it was still entirely appealing for you to go into this? So my family, we are just a

bunch of refugees and immigrants, I guess. So his dad was an entrepreneur when they were refugees. And my dad took on that path later on in his life because his dad passed away young as well. And so for my dad, he didn't have any formal business training. He was 20 when he took over his dad's business. And so there was a lot of learning along the way. He was gone a lot.

And it was incredibly risky. I found out later on about some of the risks he took, which I frankly don't think I'd have the stomach for. But they paid off and they were calculated risks. And we had enough. We didn't have a lot. But I saw how much more you could have if you were like my friends whose parents worked in corporate jobs. It was a lot more stable. And what I didn't see was that, you know, have you...

Do you read James Clear or do you follow him? Right. Compound interest 1% better. I mean, what he was building was just compounding on itself. I didn't see that because it was so small and so incremental at the start versus that linear progression. So I followed the linear path that others saw. And only later on in life when I was in college and later, did I really see him reap the fruit.

the benefits, gains of all the seeds he's sown. But what this has really taught me is we only see the downside, but really, if you have a job for a lot of people, there's enormous downside because you're tied to one employer. And especially in this economy, a lot of us have seen people lose their jobs and have two weeks of runway. And if you're an entrepreneur, I think it teaches you the skill sets that

that allow you to have pretty much unlimited upside, but then your downside is capped because you know that, okay, what's the worst that can happen? I learned this from these failures and now I'm going to go do things differently and better. So I think it's really a mindset shift. That's what I should have led with. I think it's a function of mindset. And I think we're all taught that this path, this linear path,

will get you to some golden spot in life. No, you know, yes, you can go to college. Yes, you can get a job. Yes, you can save your 401k. What if you took that big calculated risk, you know, built a little nest egg, had some runway for six months and then took the risks you wanted to take? Because you can always go back to corporate. You cannot get back the years of your life where you could have taken those risks.

I love that. I love that perspective. One of the things that impacted me so much was in taking away the security, right? So like I had this one period of my life where I didn't have the security of a corporate job. And in the beginning, it was weird. Like in the beginning, I was kind of frustrated and confused and like, okay, well, where do I go from here? And then

At a certain point, I realized that I built so much confidence in myself and in my ability to figure things out. Like, no matter what would happen, um...

I could do something about my situation. Like, no matter if, say, tomorrow I lost my job, no matter if, like... And so I think it's the reframe shift between asking for permission and then becoming the person that is building and doing and capable. And, like, in a corporate job, like, somebody is giving you a lot of stuff, right? And, like...

there's this perceived security, there's benefits, there's all these amazing things. And not that that's bad, that's really awesome. But if you never build that confidence to say, okay, let's say that somebody took all of this away from me, what am I going to do? And to be able to say, okay, well, maybe I'll be sad for a day, but then day two, I'm going. And I think that's the spirit of an entrepreneur, which I love.

A hundred percent. I love how you articulated that because that's the essence of it. It's yes, you have setbacks. And then as I teach my kids, what did you learn from it? Because next time we can do things differently. And I think that's really the mindset shift that comes around when you're an entrepreneur.

Yeah, and, like, the funny thing is is that everyone has setbacks. Like, almost everybody has been fired at some point. Almost everybody has lost their job at some point. Like, there's always a moment of, like, okay, this is not what I planned. But it's really, really interesting to me how we are all sold this idea of security. It's like, you are going to get on this track and you're going to have it and stay on it forever. Or, like, until you get to the C-suite. Or, like, there's this pre-baked path. And...

I don't think there's enough emphasis on what you learn on the other path. So like being an entrepreneur, even, and I would love to hear your take on this, like even the type of role that you're going to do inside of a corporate company is very different than the type of role that you're going to do as an entrepreneur. The types of questions that you're asking, not in all roles, but in a lot of them, in these corporate companies, you're filling

a space like you're filling a gap like you not and I don't want to say cog in the machine but like to a degree you're doing a job that somebody just defined and decided was important for this company to keep it moving um but then when you like step out into startup world like very very very early startup or even say you are building your startup it's funny because

There's no right way to do anything. And that's more true to life. It's like you're not just, you know, filling in a job. You're not just filling in a role. You're not just doing what somebody else told you to do. You're also trying to build your confidence in yourself to say, like, OK, what is the right decision here? What is the right priority here? There are so many things that I'm juggling right now. What do I need to do first?

That's exactly right. I love how you framed that because it all comes down to a bunch of different decisions and then you decide which path has the solves for the outcome you're going for.

and also has the amount of risk you can tolerate because entrepreneurship is not for everyone. And so if you have a different risk appetite, you want some independence. Well, perhaps you can save enough so that you know you're going to be okay retiring. I think it's called coast fire or something.

You know, then when you know you've got enough saved up so that when you want to retire, you can get a very comfortable lifestyle. That's when you can take a step back and focus on some sort of entrepreneurship. I mean, entrepreneurship doesn't have to look the same for everyone. You don't have to jump in like I did with everything. And even I had some cushion because of the exit that I had just had. So I did plan for it.

So I don't think entrepreneurship is an all or nothing thing. I think you can really plan for it and it doesn't have to be a full-time job. It can also be a part-time thing based on what you're looking to do. I think though the point you brought up about the path, like there being this linear path to success that we must all walk down. I think that's an unfortunate myth that we've all been sold, particularly women.

Because I was having this conversation with a friend recently about how I had been such a good girl all my life. You know, I was that straight A student. I was never an athlete, but I was a good student. And, you know, I got that scholarship. I became an engineer. I checked all the boxes. And to what end? I wasn't looking for anyone's validation. Maybe my parents, but it's not the life I dreamed for myself.

And so I think it's, especially if we're parents, I think it's our responsibility to show our children that there are multiple paths to success and success looks different for everyone. Not everyone's goal in life is to get straight A's or be the CEO of a Fortune 500 company. Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. And to that point, I mean, what's so interesting to me is how you seem to have redefined your definition of success. Was it that you so your your dad and your brother die? And I'm so sorry for your loss. And it seems as though that that was extremely impactful to you. Did you sit with it for a while and like meditate on it and really write about it? Or like, or was it just like a flip of the switch? Like, okay, something needs to change.

When my dad died, it was the height of the, well, the pandemic had just started. I actually didn't take any time off when he passed. I couldn't travel. Borders were shut, so I couldn't travel to see him. So I just kind of, I was numb and I just kept going. I didn't think about it. I didn't process it. And a bad idea, if you ever have trauma like that, please take care of yourself. Yeah.

don't do what I did. I was also the main provider for my family, so I had to keep going. I had just come back from maternity leave. I had to keep going. And I was running a team. I felt like I couldn't let them down. And boy, was that a foolish idea, right? Because that's the whole point of having a team. You can lean on them. But anyway, so I didn't take any time off. But when my brother passed, that was really unexpected and sudden. And

I happened to see what had happened. It was incredibly traumatic. So I took some, I actually, I had to take some time away to process it. And during that time, it's exactly what you described. I realized that my priorities pretty much all my life had been really messed up and they were not, I wasn't living the life I wanted to live. I mean, when I was younger in my twenties, I had actually mapped out this ridiculous path to the C-suite.

and it's so cringe-worthy, but it's the path I was expected to walk, you know? And I looked back at that and I was like, I want none of this. I want to spend time with my family. I want to build. I want to be healthy. I want to build a business that has impact and work with amazing people. And for us, having work-life flexibility is huge. My whole team were people who've been in the industry for so long.

that we now get to set our own hours, we get to define where we work, who we work with. We're very selective about our clients because there has to be a fit on both ends so we can help them succeed. And that's the company then I set out to build because I knew that the company I was at was going to get acquired. I was part of that M&A conversation. And so we worked out that I would not be joining the acquiring company.

And so I was very deliberate about it. But there was a forcing function. It was my brother's passing that just really forced me to stop, think about things, and then chart the path that I wish I'd been on 20 years ago. Yeah. So how did you mess up your priorities? Like, how did you even end up with priorities that were all wrong for who you are? You know, I never thought about what I wanted in life when I was younger.

For me it was always mapped out, perhaps it's cultural, perhaps it's where I grew up, but for me it was always mapped out that you either get married or you do this and I chose the latter. So I walked that path, I never questioned anything till something happened that really forced me to. I wasn't happy, I'll tell you that. I was not happy there was a part of me that knew this was not right and I wish I had listened to that voice and trusted it more.

And when I mentor women now, it's something I urge them to listen to, at least give it the time it deserves. Because especially as women, I think we're conditioned to be nice, to walk these paths, to do the things. But who gets to decide what's right and what's not? It should be us. I think it's interesting because even people who have the freedom to choose what they're going to do, where they're going to be,

they don't, like most people don't choose that consciously because it's difficult. So how did you finally, whenever you sat down and you said, okay, I'm going to do this in a way that benefits me, in a way that reflects who I am at my core, how did you actually figure out what it is that you wanted enough to go after it? Because I think like,

You know, you paint this idea of security and you paint this idea of a corporate life. That's good. That's nice. But what's interesting is when you do things that are so contrary to who you are internally, you can't flourish. And that's really important is for women to flourish entirely. I mean, women and men both. But like specifically in this conversation, like it's so important for women to be able to flourish as who they are. You know, we've been given gifts and like we've been given things that

We like we are all so unique. We might as well just give the world our uniqueness. That's like that's such a core belief of mine. But how do you even begin?

I think it starts with accepting that there might be a different life out there for you and being open to thinking about it. And again, for me, it was, it came down to what happened, but also again, I'm the primary breadwinner in my family. So I was concerned about, of course, financial security, healthcare for my family, flexibility for my family, the ability to work remote and,

And then I started by actually listing out the things that were keeping me in the corporate world, the bare minimums that I needed to have. Great idea. Right? Like, why am I in this? And what do I need? And then I realized all of the above could be achieved through another path. And so, again, I'm an engineer. So I sat down, I listed out what I wanted. I looked at all the different pathways, right?

And there are costs associated, there are risks associated with everything. And so I actually mapped out a timeline for a year and I gave myself some runway to build this company, to try it out. I was fortunate that I had amazing people I would be working with anyway. So that de-risked it to an extent. We already had clients who were reaching out to us. So again, that de-risked it.

And that's something I would encourage everyone to do. Like before you make the leap, if you're thinking about it, try it out. Do some consulting projects on the side that don't conflict with what you do in your day job because you want to steer clear of non-competes and anything. And if you are going to leave, build the pipeline, figure out the health care, figure out whatever it is that you need from your corporate job. Maybe talk to your employer about consulting for them.

That could be an easy way to get started. But yeah, that's how I figured it out. Like what did I need for my corporate job that I could get some other way? And then I implemented that with some amazing people again. And I'm fortunate that I have an incredibly supportive spouse who has allowed me to follow my career, follow my dreams. And that has been a huge piece of it.

Wow. Whenever you built this plan for yourselves, this way that you were going to build your company, did you give yourself an out, like a backup plan or like, hey, okay, this is the amount of time that I have? Or are you basically like, because I've heard some thoughts and beliefs that it's like, don't give yourself a way out because then you won't figure out a way to make it. Yeah. So I had a runway, like financial runway for a period of time. For me, it was like, this has to work.

Or I am not going back to the corporate world. I actually ironically had people reach out from a couple of companies asking if I wanted to join. And I said, happy to consider taking you guys on as clients. And again, it's like, at what point am I going to be true to myself? There's always going to be the fear. Every day there's fear of what's next, but that's why you have plans and you have strategies and goals and targets, et cetera. And yeah,

you bake in redundancy, right? Like if you need four deals a year, you try and have 16 deals in your pipeline so that there's some buffer. But no, to answer your question, it had to work because I needed to do this for myself. And also for me, it's a bit of carrying on my family's legacy. So that's something I couldn't fail. And maybe that's it for me. Like maybe I don't do things for myself, but I certainly do it for others, for my family.

So that was my motivation. That's incredible. It's funny because people build up fear. I know I do it too. It's like, okay, but what if, but what if, but what if? And then when you actually sit down and you break down the fears and you're like, okay, let's actually think this through. Okay, so let's say that I get fired from my job or let's say that this doesn't work out. I might have a couple of maybe months, a couple of weeks, whatever of hard times, but like

It's only over when it's over. Like your life is not over. And I think like this idea that, okay, I'm just going to like, I'm going to hurt myself in a way that's non-recoverable. It's just not the way that life works. Everything is recoverable. And I have to remind myself about that too. It's like, there's at no point, there is a period where you've gone too far. Like even the worst possible things, you can still usually make it out. That's exactly right. Well said. I mean, yeah.

and the worst case I'll go be a Pilates instructor. It's okay. So, you know, it's not the worst case. Yeah. So, but that's exactly to your point. But once you break it down into its components,

I think it makes it a lot less daunting. I don't know if you've read Dune. I'm a sci-fi nerd, but there's a litany of fear. Dune is an incredible story. Right? And there's a scene where he's flying through the storm and he does this litany of fear and it's like, I will face it and I will fly through it. I will see it. I'm obviously misplacing it. I love it. But you look at it in the face and it's not so scary. The monsters aren't real. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

So I want to touch on other people's opinions because that's something that holds people back a lot. And what's funny is you're mentioning this a little bit before we started recording that, you know, you are successful by every standard. You know, you have an incredible company. You have your family. You are happily married. Like you're successful. And yet people still judge you like you can't get away from people's opinions no matter what side of the aisle you walk on. So what has been your best, I guess, method for success?

dealing with other people's opinions and just saying, okay, I'm going to walk my own path. Have you seen the honey badger video? I have not. You should look it up. It's a video of this animal that just does whatever it wants. It'll go fight a snake. It'll go into the garbage and grab what it wants. And it goes, honey badger doesn't give a bleep. Honey badger does what it wants.

And my youngest daughter is like that. I think she's really inspired me to not care very much about external factors. Because at the end of the day, everyone's really scared of being judged. So who cares? You know, it is what it is. You can either be everything to everyone, which you're never going to be, or just be true to yourself. And it took a really long time to get to that point, by the way, to not care and just be yourself.

I've given talks where on exec presence and God, I hate that term because it is so subjective. And you, we women may not be anyone's idea of a C-suite executive, but who cares, right? If your idea of someone in the C-suite isn't someone like me, that's not my problem. I'm still going to go out there and work with amazing clients and do the best I can.

So I think it's really a function of what I, why am I doing this work? What do I need from it? Who's going to benefit from it at the end of the day? And then just go do it and let the haters hate. As a friend of mine says, the haters are always going to hate.

I love that. The emphasis on understanding your why and then allowing that to be enough for you. Like when you don't understand why you're doing the things you're doing, it's a lot easier for other people to convince you out of it or for them to judge you in a certain way. And I love that. I wanted to kind of segue into motherhood. So how has motherhood impacted your work and your life? Mm-hmm.

That also comes right back actually to what we were talking about prior to this recording about judgment from others too. But my, again, I'm the primary breadwinner in our family, which means that I'm not the one doing pick up and drop off most of the time. And I'm not the one at birthday parties a lot of the time or doing dropping my kids off at dance or soccer or whatever. And that leads to a lot of judgment. And so motherhood has really impacted judgment.

my life because I've gotten really, really efficient at doing things. And I think a lot of parents will tell you this, they get really efficient at things. It's helped me prioritize what's important and it's helped me set really good boundaries. That's something I really didn't have because work used to be everything to me prior to having kids.

And I also think it's given me a much thicker skin because when sometimes I show up and drop my kids off and I get really ridiculous, passive aggressive comments, I just say thank you with a smile and walk off. And so I think parenthood is really empowering because it helps you just distill down what's important and then go prioritize that. But then again, there's parental guilt, right? Because as a working mom, I can't be everything to everyone. Yeah.

How do you rectify that inside of yourself? Like the idea that you actually cannot do everything for everyone. You can't be everything for everyone. Yeah. For me, I found that my kids really love one-on-one time. And so I make sure that every night I can count on both hands how many nights I've not been home this year to put them to bed. So that is, yeah, to have dinner with my family and put them to bed. So that for me is usually a non-negotiable.

and a really high priority. And so I prioritize what's important to my children, I prioritize what's important to my family, and based off of that, unless something is really urgent, I'll decide my work priorities. And again, I'm fortunate to have that luxury. But that being said, I think it's also important for parents to understand that people are going to judge you, people are going to be resentful and wish that they had what you had,

or have and that's okay just don't take it a heart don't let it get under your skin easier yeah

I love that. You mentioned boundaries as well. Is that kind of like a, like walls around how you're present? Because I know that's one of the issues with like anybody who is doing corporate or not doing corporate, but like working and working at a high level. It's like, you can always be plugged in if you want to be like, somebody's always sending you a message. Somebody's always sending you an email. How do you make sure that you're present enough as a mom?

I was still in my corporate career, actually for the majority of my children's lives. And so I had very clear boundaries with my leadership about availability. And I also made sure that my team knew that there was no expectation on them as long as they were explicit about when they would be available. And we had some team meetings that we had to be present for. Sometimes we had to be present. But beyond that,

you know, set your boundaries, let people know when you're available, let them know that you're not on 24/7. In fact, we used to have things in our signatures saying, I have a flexible schedule, so I'll get back to you when I get back to you. Or sorry for sending this outside work hours. So I think it's more the soft way of expressing boundaries, which is I'm available here. This is what I will tolerate. This is what I will not tolerate.

or show up for and also then showing that through your actions because I've been guilty of this I've said I'm going on vacation I'm not checking email and I'll check email and so I break my own boundaries so getting better at whole respecting my own boundaries has been a work in progress and what do you do when your kids are sick so like let's say a kid is sick and you have a lot to do that day what do you do how do you how do you navigate that

We take turns because when my kids are sick, they want me for comfort. Yeah. Oh, man. COVID was a beast because I had a new, not new born. She was six months old. She was literally by my side when I was taking calls and clients would hear me. And I had my video off. That was a hard boundary. I said, I'm not going to have my video on because I have my baby with me. And I have dealt with things like changing blowouts while leading a meeting with a client to other things.

And you know what? It's life. Everyone's dealing with it. And if when my kids are sick, depends on how sick they are. If they're really sick, I'm not available. My kids are my priority. I had a kid who was in the hospital twice for RSV. I was out. And that's why I've always made sure that there's some redundancy, some coverage plan for myself as well as for my team. Because that allows you to take time away.

But yes, when my kids are sick, they're my priority. If it's not urgent, maybe I'll tag team with my spouse. But if they're really sick, I'm there for them. That's a non-negotiable. How did you become like this where your kids are your priority? Your family is your priority, right? People who are so excited about building something often have a hard time creating those boundaries, often have a hard time prioritizing correctly where it's like, um,

it's this, these two things that they value so, so, so deeply and they want to see succeed. And I know that you want to see your company succeed. Is it just this almost relationship with time? It's like, if I take off one day, it is not going to kill my company or like, how is it that you navigate that? Because I think there's a lot of pressure there. A hundred percent. And I'm guilty of working insane hours. So when my kids are asleep, I'm not sleeping. I mean, for the last,

Two weeks I've been sleeping five, six hours a night because they actually have been sick and I've had to make up for lost time. But again, it's a choice I make. So I have to make sure that I'm not dropping the ball on my work side because there are people who depend on me.

And my family is my priority. And again, I don't have to be there. I have a spouse who's there, but it's my choice to be there. So I have to make sure that the other side is my work is taken care of. And how did I get to be this way? I was not lucky enough to have, I hope my mom never listens to this, but I didn't have the kind of engagement that I wanted. So I'm trying to make sure I provide that for my family. That's it.

That's really important to me. I think that's the cool thing about a relationship with a person and their parents is our goal is to look at our parents and to say, okay, you are not perfect. You could not have been perfect. But what are the things that I want to take and what are the things that I want to do differently? And I know even for myself, there are a lot of things that I want to do differently and just being able to see that and name it and say, okay, this is going to be a priority for me. But then

because you grew up a certain way or because just it's hard to do everything all at once. Sometimes you do have to have grace with yourself. So what does it look like for you whenever you feel like you're dropping balls and you're frustrated with yourself because, you know, you're not perfect and there's this, there's this desire to be perfect, which like, and there's so many people that are counting on you. How do you make sure that you have enough grace with yourself to both call yourself to a higher standard, but then also, um,

say, okay, this is what I'm capable of giving today. And this kind of goes back to the atomic habits, maybe 1% better thing. Yeah. For me, it's ruthless prioritization. It's just ruthless. I do it on a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly basis. We did annual planning again for my company. It's just prioritizing what's essential and

And again, having an amazing team to lean on. I think that makes all of the difference and kudos to solopreneurs because that is not easy. And even then I would recommend supporting yourself with accountants or whoever are experts in their field so you get the help you need. But yeah, it's delegation, it's prioritization. And sometimes things are going to drop like

Some months, some things don't get written and that's okay. And some nights I don't get to read a book to my kids. So that's okay. They get to watch TV and they're a-okay. So I want to, I want to go to this, this idea of mission. So you are building this company when you decided that you were going to redefine your, your definition of success for yourself. You set out on this mission to, to,

build partnerships, right? Why partnerships? A, it's been the majority of my career, and that's what I know. And B, I think it is a really undertapped way of growth.

And I've been, I've seen like on the front lines, how powerful partnerships has been both when I was building programs at Microsoft, I built and ran their high growth startups program globally. I built and ran their FinTech program. And I've seen the ridiculous growth that's driven for companies. And then when I went to a startup and build their partner program, it led to them getting acquired. So I,

I've seen firsthand the impact. I've also seen how difficult it is to navigate and do so successfully. And candidly, it came out through companies reaching out to us and saying, hey, can you help? And my colleagues and I came together. We started this company that helps others grow profitably through partnerships. So increase your revenue without increasing your costs. And

The mission is to help these companies continue to scale and grow. And we work a lot with female and minority owned companies or female leadership. Like I've seen several female CROs, which is amazing, you know, and tech founders. So that's,

something that really personally gives me joy to help companies grow, but then also to see this diverse set of founders and leaders thrive because they're going to be pulling up the next generation.

I love that. Do you think your purpose is discovered? So this is something that you're building, right? And it's come out of you working in these different companies and learning a very, very valuable and also unique skill set, building that up and having this very specific knowledge. I have a friend and mentor who talks about like,

purpose being a sculpture right like you don't know it automatically and sometimes it's really hard for younger people to look at college and college says okay now what are you going to do and then where are you going to go and what's your purpose and like you know what are you so passionate about um

And instead of it being something that you discover, like, like all in one moment, it's something that you uncover over time. You just keep on saying yes in the directions that feel correct. And you say no to the things that feel incorrect. I think that's something I had to learn the hard way is like, okay, I don't know exactly where I'm supposed to be, where I'm supposed to go, but

this is good. Like, I don't feel terrible in this job. It's not sucking the life out of me. I'm going to keep on going. And then the skill sets that you create and then mixed with your specific set of personal skills and unique interests and gifts and whatnot. Has that been how it is for you as well? Yeah, it has been exactly like that. It's like brownie in motion, you know, and then all of a sudden it makes sense. It's just

So, yeah, I mean, I, I still remember checking the box in the majors I wanted to do. And I was like, oh, this major has two degrees. I'll just check that box. And I got it. What a foolish way to choose, right? Like electrical engineering and computer science. Yeah, I got a two for one. So, yeah, my whole career has been rather has had a lot of randomness baked in.

And also a lot of good luck in the sense that I met people who were incredible, who realized that I had a strength in certain areas and pulled me in that direction. And I'm so deeply grateful for a couple of bosses at Qualcomm and one at Microsoft in particular, who told me to prioritize myself and my well-being first. Because one of them said, if you got hit by a bus, the company would replace you the next day. So just take care of yourself.

I was like, wow, that's really direct, but on point. And he's the same guy who wouldn't promote me till I learned how to delegate better. So which was a really powerful lesson. I think it's a function of being around people who see your strengths, who are more experienced than you and pull you towards, I think where you're eventually going to end up, but it all makes sense. I think looking backwards, um,

But if you asked me this question 2025 years ago, I wouldn't tell you where I wanted to be. I wanted to be a singer. Yeah, right. That's not going to happen now. But yeah, life's very different, right? Than what you think it's going to end up.

Yeah. What do you think is the right way to make sure that you end up somewhere that you're pleased with, though? So like you wanted to be a singer, like if you would have asked yourself at a certain point, hey, like, what do you want to be? You'd been like, oh, my gosh, it's my dream to be a singer. And feasibly, you probably should not have have chased that. But like, how do you determine where to go even whenever there's not this passion? Because people can get in the in the habit or the the pit of like actually chasing that singer role even at

Even though that's probably not where they should actually go. Yeah, exactly right. I think I knew that there's no way I would be a successful singer. Let's be real. So I think it comes down to at the end of the day, you have to pay your bills and you have to take care of yourself. So how do you have that? At least for me, this is how I approach it. How do I make sure I have that stability and

And I lay a foundation so in the future if I want to take a risk, once I know what that risk is going to be and what the payoff is going to be, if I'm okay with it, then I have that cushion to take that risk. Because that's how I think about risk. Yes, you should take calculated risks that can pay outsized rewards. And to get to that point,

hopefully you have some cushion that allows you to take that reward comfortably. And it's even more important if you have a family like I do or a dependence or you're taking care of other people. I think there are responsibilities in life that you need to figure out how to balance. And so if you're proactive and thinking about it, then you're just setting yourself up for more optionality in the future, which is really what entrepreneurship is, right? It's optionality.

I love that. I love that point. And I'll ask about optionality in a second. But what I think is really fascinating, actually, and this makes a lot of sense to me now, it just kind of connected as you were saying that is the problem is, is that there's not one path, like there's not one way that your life has to end up for you to be happy. There are lots of paths, you know, I could have done tons of different roles and probably been happy in a lot of them. But

And it's funny because nobody tries a lot of industries out. Nobody tries a lot of things out. And somebody, I forget who, but they gave me the incredible advice. They said, try a lot of things out. Like in the beginning, don't put any pressure on yourself to have it figured out. Just hop into a lot of industries, figure it out, do internships, and then

um with this really low risk thing then start to to figure out what it is that you like and you don't like and you'll you'll you'll find that certain industries just fit your personality better than others certain roles will fit your personality better than others and um

And then it's exactly what you were just saying, where it's like, okay, then determine the risks you're willing to take, because some industries are going to be more higher high risk, and some are not. But like, let's say that you're a singer, or let's say that you had a gift to sing. And then at some point, really young, you were like, you know, I'm going to try a ton of industries, just even expanding your perspective that, okay, you know what, I like three industries.

am I willing to risk what it will take for me to try and be a singer? And like, just being able to consciously choose that I think is so valuable. Exactly. I used to be an excellent swimmer actually. And that is a path I actually did not walk down. Really? Did I say singer? I did. I was not a good singer, but I was a good swimmer. It was a conscious decision because I knew that I wanted a kind of life and I did not have the discipline to be

the kind of swimmer I needed to be. So there you have it, you know, you have to be honest with yourself. And to your point, try out things. I am really, really curious. I love doing different things. So when I was in college, yes, I picked two majors out of the blue,

But I also studied a lot of music. You know, I got to work in the music department. I got to work in the math department. I worked at a nuclear lab in grad school when I had a full-time job. I was also trying to get my PhD in bioengineering. I ended up with a master's and worked on early cancer detection. So I got to try a lot of things because I had thought at some point I'd want to be in the medical field. And

And I quickly realized that I do not like dealing with blood. So again, to your point, it's figuring out, it's trying these things in very low risk ways. And then I think that will point you on a path that will lead you even closer to where you're going to end up anyway. I love that. You also said that you had a boss and mentor who would not promote you until you learned to delegate better. How did you learn that? Like what was the challenge there?

He actually told me that he was like, you're my person for this role. And it was a pretty big role. And he was, he said, I know you don't trust this team. And there were reasons for it. They had goofed up quite a bit. He was like, but you're not going to get this role until you learn to delegate. And so then I had to realize that.

okay, this team with people from all over the world with different priorities and ways of working together, how do I really motivate them? How do I give, how do I basically set them up to succeed? So give them roles and responsibilities that play to their strengths so that I can delegate and also have my peace of mind. Cause it was a pretty major project and I,

It was quite a learning experience. And I think it set the foundation for everything else in the future, which was amazing. And I owe him, I owe him a great deal of thanks. And I frequently ping him on LinkedIn and he's like, what are you talking about? Well, what were you like before? It was just like, you were looking at this team and you were like, oh, I could do it better than them. So I'm just going to do it. No, it was more, we would have a lot of weekly meetings to go over status issues.

And I think that was slowing the team down because this team had, I inherited them and I had received a lot of feedback from their previous manager about how they worked. And I had let that get into my head. And so I wasn't delegating the way I used to, and it was going to slow the project down. And so I'm really glad that he saw this thing that I was doing wrong and he called me out on it and he actually held me accountable to it.

So I think everyone needs managers like that. Yeah. So it seems like he taught you to be a leader. And now that you're a CEO, you lead a lot of people. How do you help them to...

show up as the best versions of themselves. I always like to say like pace, right? So any type of leader sets the pace for whatever comes, for the team, for wherever you're going. How do you set the right pace? And I mean, everybody's had a nightmare leader. How do you do it properly? Yeah, right. I...

I'm sure my team will let me know because they're very candid people. That's very good. If I miss speaking, and these are all folks I've worked with for years, so they have no problem telling me like it is, which I love. And the way we set the paces, we actually all set our own pace. That's the one thing we've agreed to. We all have deliverables.

And we know when they need to be delivered by and how you do it is up to you. And when you do it is up to you, unless there are some meetings that we all need to make. But again, we're all flexible because we're all over the world. So that's how our business is structured and designed because we are fortunately not on the manufacturing floor. And so we have a lot of flexibility as to how we deliver. Yeah. But micromanagement is a huge pet peeve of mine. And, and,

It is something I stay away from and it's something that I personally hate. So that is a no-go at our company. Same. But it honestly depends on the team that you have because like I've,

I've been parts of teams where it's just like our leader doesn't even have to tell us what to do. He just tells us what the end result he wants is. And it's like, and, and as a, as a worker underneath that team or like as a, as a individual contributor, it's like, it's so cool because you build so much confidence. It's like, okay, he told me he wants this. Here's the path that I'm going to take. And I'll be very, very open about the journey that I'm taking about the steps that I'm taking. But like,

We're just going to get it done. And just that openness is so important. And also just be clear about being on the same page about the deliverables. And if you hit roadblocks, just bring that up in real time. Don't let things fester. I think that's huge. And again, someone's idea, again, what was the saying? Perfect. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Something like that. Yeah. I think that that's our philosophy too. And it's something I bring to parenting too, because it's,

I think it's really important to let children make their own mistakes and learn from them. And that's, it's that same kind of mindset we have at work. We'll figure it out. Yeah, exactly. Or one of the other ones that somebody around me says is done is better than perfect. That's it. That's the thing. Exactly.

That's exactly it. Yeah. And I think like, it's so funny. I don't know why we fall into this, but one of the biggest lessons that I had to learn was proper communication because I wanted to be perfect so many times. And like, if there was an email thread that I needed to get back to, if there was a project that I needed to get done, it was like, I just wanted to give everybody feedback.

the final product in like a nice little tight bow or if it was an email, like I just wanted to send an email with all my answers. And recently I've been learning that you don't have to have it all done. Like there's this concept, learn out loud. That's one that's been really valuable for me, which is, okay, let's say that I'm in charge of finishing a landing page or finishing a document.

Let's say I'm 75% of the way there and I know that 100 is going to take me a little bit longer.

share the 75% and say, hey, does anybody have feedback? Then I'll tweak and I'll finish and everybody will have seen it. Know where I'm at. And additionally, there are like in email communications, you don't have to have all the things figured out. So like when I say, hey, I'm going to send you an email to follow up. Like let's say I don't actually have the documents finished that I told them I would send an email anyways. Hey, I don't have the documents finished. We'll get to you tomorrow. Something like that. But like it's,

It's so funny because I had so much pressure on myself to finish every single thing perfectly. And it was like, I can't do this. But then my communication would falter and the way that people felt like they could rely on me would falter. So that's definitely something that I've been learning as well. And that's such a great point. I wish we would teach this to women and girls more is just over communicate and don't think you have to be perfect. We don't have to be perfect and ask for help. I wish I asked for help.

Earlier on in my career, I wish I had the same thing that you brought up, which is I have to do it myself. It has to be perfect. And I figured that out a couple of years into my career, but I really wish I had an easier time asking for help. And maybe it's cultural. I don't know. But it's something we could all, I think, get better at.

Yeah, I agree with that. All right. I'm going to hit you with some rapid fire questions just to close us out. The first question is, what is your best piece of advice for women out there, but specifically thinking through the lens of you have two daughters? So what advice would you give your two daughters? Speak up for yourself. Have really strong boundaries and speak up for yourself. You don't like it. Say, I don't like this and this is why. Don't do it again.

And one of the things that holds people back from speaking up for themselves is that they feel like they, something's going to be taken away from them, right? Like if I, if I speak up for myself and say that I can't be here on this day, maybe they'll fire me or like whatever, what, what, what additional piece of advice would you give for that? Maybe think of the upside. Don't think of just the downside because if they fire you, do you really want to work for a company that doesn't let you take the time off you deserve?

And don't justify it. You don't have to justify it. Just I had a male colleague tell me, don't say I'm with my kids or whatever. Just say I'm not available at that time or I have a prior conflict. Just be confident. What would a man say? I love that. Next question. What is your current definition of success? Happiness. I really think it comes down to being happy. And it's not tied to money.

material things anymore is very intrinsic my definition of happiness so if I feel joy and peace 80% of the time I think for me that's being successful I love that and my last question for you um you've spoken so highly about your husband and I would just love to hear your best piece of marriage advice man give each other space and to have your own hobbies in your own life

And when you fight, just make up. Don't let things fester because people are going to fight.

I love that. This has been such a gift and an amazing conversation. Thank you so much for sharing everything. I am so just impressed by the woman that you are and all the success that you've had, all the ways that you've changed your definitions of success, of enough, of perfect. I really think that people really enjoy this. So thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me and for the very candid and fun conversation.

I'm looking forward to our next episode. Cheers. We all want to help one another. Human beings are like that.