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cover of episode Ep. 145: Would anyone but Trump have done it?

Ep. 145: Would anyone but Trump have done it?

2025/6/24
logo of podcast Jonathan Tobin Daily (f.k.a. Top Story Daily)

Jonathan Tobin Daily (f.k.a. Top Story Daily)

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Jonathan Tobin: 作为JNS的总编辑,我认为特朗普总统采取了一项前所未有的行动,即下令轰炸伊朗的核设施,这可能会改变历史的进程。我认为,特朗普打破了美国外交政策机构长期以来的模式,有效地阻止了伊朗伊斯兰政权制造核武器,这种武器可能摧毁以色列,威胁美国在该地区的盟友,并对西方构成威胁。我认为,特朗普在第二任期内延续了他对以色列的支持,就像他之前将美国大使馆迁至耶路撒冷、承认以色列对戈兰高地的主权以及促成亚伯拉罕协议一样。我认为,值得思考的是,是否还有其他美国总统或可能的总司令会采取与特朗普相同的行动。如果答案是否定的,那么我认为特朗普不仅在许多方面是一个政治和总统的异类,而且也被证明是现代世界和犹太历史上的一个重要人物。尽管特朗普存在缺点,但我认为他可能像戴高乐所说的那样,是近代世界领导人中最不可或缺的人物之一。我认为,特朗普最初几个月在伊朗问题上的言行似乎表明他的外交政策会更像奥巴马或拜登,但实际上这可能是一种策略或彻底的反思。我认为,特朗普给了伊朗领导人一个机会来解决其核计划的争议,但他并没有像他的前任那样,允许他们以最小的让步来维持核计划。我认为,特朗普说到做到,给了伊朗两个月的时间来谈判放弃其核野心,否则他们将会后悔。我认为,特朗普下令使用美国独有的武器打击伊朗的核目标,这不仅仅是在当前冲突中扭转了局势。我认为,无论未来发生什么,伊朗的核威胁在可预见的未来都将有效地结束。我认为,伊朗的核项目生存机会很可能为零,他们很难修复或重建在过去十年中失去的东西。我认为,这对特朗普和内塔尼亚胡来说都是一项巨大的成就,内塔尼亚胡在过去15年中一直将阻止伊朗核弹作为其领导的主题。我认为,以色列在确保伊朗核计划被摧毁的必要性上立场坚定,但美国在此问题上的政策并非如此。我认为,美国总统们一直不愿对伊朗采取行动,主要是因为他们不愿承认伊朗的目标,以及如果伊朗获得核武器或被允许成为一个核门槛国家意味着什么。我认为,美国情报界许多人坚持认为,最高领袖哈梅内伊禁止伊朗制造核武器的说法是真实的,尽管以色列摩萨德在2018年获得的伊朗核文件证明这是错误的。我认为,布什政府认为可以推迟解决伊朗问题,而奥巴马则达成了一项核协议,不仅推迟了对该问题的清算,而且基本上保证了伊朗将在2030年协议中的日落条款到期后获得武器。我认为,奥巴马及其前工作人员认为,德黑兰愿意与西方和解,并应取代以色列和沙特阿拉伯成为美国在该地区政策的中心。我认为,特朗普似乎是唯一一位理解伊朗构成的危险以及采取行动的必要性的美国总统,以及国际舞台上的其他领导人(内塔尼亚胡除外)。我认为,特朗普不信任专家,这源于他对华盛顿内部机构和专家阶层的本能不信任。我认为,反对特朗普的民主党精英认为这是他的一个深刻缺陷,也是他反智主义的证据,但他们未能理解特朗普不信任那些在民主党和共和党政府下管理外交政策的所谓聪明人是正确的。我认为,他们对中东的看法基本上是错误的,特朗普也理解展示美国实力和绥靖的危险。我认为,特朗普对“美国优先”的解读是,美国应该强大,并谨慎地选择自己的战斗,避免不必要的冲突,同时专注于阻止核伊朗等重要问题。我认为,特朗普相信果断的领导和不可预测性,这使他有决心在需要采取行动时迅速行动。我认为,特朗普不愿让自己陷入徒劳的努力中,以与欧洲人和其他不适合采取行动的人达成国际共识,即使这意味着除了他的盟友以色列之外,全世界都反对他。我认为,特朗普作为工人阶级的亿万富翁代表的独特资格使他有能力采取行动,而其他人可能不具备这种能力。我认为,特朗普以蔑视建制派为乐,因此很难想象其他美国总统会在中东问题上如此果断地采取行动。我认为,自由主义者无法接受特朗普是以色列和犹太人民的历史性朋友,也是一位掌握伊朗和伊斯兰顽固不化基本事实的总统。我认为,参议院少数党领袖查克·舒默谴责特朗普轰炸伊朗的决定,这表明他从未真正关心过伊朗核武器问题,否则他会支持特朗普的决定。我认为,理解所发生事情的关键在于认识到特朗普采取涉及国家安全措施的独特意愿。我认为,阻止伊朗核武器的斗争历史将会非常不同,特朗普对伊朗采取行动可能是为了促进以色列的生存。我认为,那些支持以色列的人必须承认,特朗普是唯一一位会采取行动阻止伊朗并可能拯救以色列的总统。我认为,无论接下来发生什么,特朗普确保了世界不会被迫面对一个拥有核武器的伊朗。

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Hello, and welcome to Jonathan Tobin Daily. I'm JNS Editor-in-Chief Jonathan Tobin. Now let's get started. Donald Trump appears to have fooled both his friends and foes, and he has done something none of his predecessors dared to do. With a single stroke, his orders to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities may well have altered the path of history.

The Islamist regime of building a nuclear weapon with which it could destroy Israel, intimidate America's allies in the region into subservience, and threaten the rest of the West, with which it continues itself to be in a religious war, is effectively finished. After 20 years, during which American presidents have variously ignored, appeased, or actively aided the Iranian threat, Trump has essentially broken the pattern set down by the American foreign policy establishment.

Just as he did in his first term by moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv, recognizing Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights, and understanding that the Palestinians should not be allowed to veto peace between the Jewish state and Arab states by the Abraham Accords, he has now extended that streak to his second term with respect to Iran.

The questions to be asked about this involve more than just the ones focused on next steps in the current conflict or if the president's strategy will prompt Iran to finally recognize that it must give in to his demands or send the region spiraling into an even more dangerous and bloody war. At this point, it's appropriate to ponder whether any other recent American president or likely commander-in-chief would have done as he has done.

If the answer is no, then it's fair to say that Donald Trump has still proven to be not only a political and presidential outlier in many respects, he has also proven to be an essential figure in modern world and Jewish history. To note that is not to excuse his personal faults, his often hyperbolic modes of expression, the way at times he plays fast and loose with the truth, or his sometimes inconsistent policy shifts.

nor does it excuse his lack of interest in ideas or a strong base of knowledge in history, flaws that can influence his choices. But although the centuries are, as Charles de Gaulle said, filled with indispensable men, it may be that Trump comes as close to one as any other recent world leader.

With respect to Iran, he spent his first few months in office speaking and behaving as if the foreign policy of his second administration would resemble more that of Barack Obama or Joe Biden than that of his own first term. But it turns out that it was all a ruse or at the very least a thorough rethinking of how American diplomacy is supposed to work.

the president gave Iran's leaders a chance to engage with the United States to resolve the dispute over its retention of a dangerous nuclear program. However, to their great surprise, as well as to that of most onlookers, he did not do so as his predecessors did in order to allow them to hold on to it with minimal concessions or to run out the clock with endless delays in order to achieve the same outcome.

Instead, he meant what he said when he declared that he was giving them two months to negotiate a way to back down and give up their nuclear ambitions, and that if they failed to give him what he wanted, they would regret it. And this is exactly what has happened.

By ordering U.S. forces to strike at nuclear targets with the sort of weapons that only the American military possesses, 30,000-pound bunker-buster bombs and the U.S. Air Force B-2 bombers that can drop them on targets such as Iran's mountainside Fordow uranium enrichment plant, Trump has done more than tip the scales against the Islamist regime in the current conflict.

His actions make it a given that no matter what happens in the coming days and weeks, the Iranian nuclear threat is effectively over for the foreseeable future. No matter what Iran's terrorist forces and allies may attempt to do to strike back at the United States and to continue to rain down missiles on the Jewish state,

The chances of its nuclear project's survival are likely to be effectively zero. After decades of work and the expenditure of vast sums by this theocracy, the odds of its being able to repair or rebuild what it lost in the last ten days are very long indeed.

a regime that was already on the verge of an economic, political, and military collapse and which is under severe sanctions by the United States, simply won't have the wherewithal to undo the damage done by the Israeli and American strikes, even if this war ends soon. This is an enormous accomplishment for both Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who made the struggle to avert an Iranian nuclear bomb a persistent theme of his leadership for the past 15 years.

But while the Jewish state's position on the necessity of ensuring that Iran's nuclear program is destroyed has been a constant, the same cannot be said for American policy on the issue during this period. While all American presidents, even Obama, had paid lip service to the need to stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, American actions toward Iran during the last decade have at times been more of an aid to Tehran's ambitions than a roadblock.

There have always been reasons for American presidents to avoid taking action on Iran. Key among them has been an unwillingness to acknowledge Iran's goal or what it would mean if Tehran obtained a nuclear weapon or was allowed, as it appeared to be already the case in recent years, to become a threshold nuclear power.

Many in the American intelligence community clung to the belief that Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei's purported ban on Iran's building a nuclear weapon was a genuine policy decision. Though it was proven false by the regime's nuclear files obtained by Israel's Mossad in 2018, those determined to give Tehran a pass, like current Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard, have continued to wrongly insist that its nuclear project is not a threat.

Others thought that dealing with the problem could also be postponed. That was the position of the George W. Bush administration, which was already embroiled in quagmires in Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama went even further and negotiated a nuclear deal that not only postponed a reckoning on the issue, but essentially guaranteed that Iran would get a weapon once the sunset provisions in the 2015 accord expired by 2030. More than that.

Obama and his former staffers, who ran foreign policy during the Biden administration, went even further and imagined that Tehran was open to a rapprochement with the West and believed that it should replace Israel and Saudi Arabia as the linchpin of U.S. policy in the region.

Like them, some of Trump's woke right supporters, such as former Fox News host Tucker Carlson, were also advocating for a soft response to Iran, either out of stubborn isolationist disinterest in stopping an Islamist enemy of the West or a malicious desire to see it harm Israel. But not Trump. Trump alone among recent American presidents, as well as other leaders on the international stage apart from Netanyahu,

seems to have understood the peril presented by Iran and the necessity for action. What enabled him to achieve this insight? Trump distrusts experts. Part of that was his instinctive distrust of the Washington inside the Beltway establishment and the expert class.

The credentialed elites who make up the bulk of the Democratic Party's opposition to Trump regard this as one of his profound flaws and evidence of his anti-intellectualism, if not outright ignorance. But what they fail to understand is that Trump is right not to trust the supposedly smart people who have run foreign policy under both Democratic and Republican administrations.

They've been essentially wrong about the Middle East. Take, for example, the predictions of doom about a move of the U.S. embassy or about Arab nations never making peace with Israel before the establishment of a Palestinian state. All were proven to be harmful myths. Unlike Obama and Biden in particular, Trump also understands the necessity of projecting American strength and the danger of appeasement.

This is not something that many observers associate with the policy approach he dubbed America First. Some on the left believe it to be pure isolationism, as with the America First movement of the pre-World War II era, which opposed measures to stop Nazi Germany. Carlson and his woke right acolytes similarly think it means indifference to Iran's multi-front campaign to eradicate the sole Jewish state on the planet.

But Trump's interpretation of the term, besides being the only one that matters, is the one that calls for strong America that picks and chooses its fights carefully, avoiding unnecessary ones like the quagmire in Ukraine, while focusing in on those that do, like stopping a nuclear Iran. Along with all that, Trump is a believer in decisive leadership and unpredictability.

That has given him the will, time after time, to act swiftly when he believes action is needed. While others prefer to let themselves be tied up in knots in futile efforts at achieving international consensus with Europeans and others who are temporarily unsuited to action, Trump has no such qualms, even if it means the whole world, other than his ally Israel, is against him. It's possible that other conservative Republicans might have done the same thing if they had been elected president.

But Trump's unique credentials as the billionaire tribune of the working class gives him standing to act that few others might hope to possess. Too many other political figures on the right begin to act as if the approval of the New York Times, CNN, and liberal public opinion is essential to the sense of their own legitimacy once they attain power. Their desire for the respect of liberal opinion leaders tends to lead them to behave differently once in office.

But not Trump. He thrives on the contempt of the establishment. That's why it's hard to imagine any other American president acting so decisively on Middle East issues. Acknowledging the fundamental importance of Trump is a bitter pill for many in American politics.

Liberals, even those who purport to care about Israel in the fight against anti-Semitism, simply can't accept that the bad orange man is a historic friend of Israel and the Jewish people, as well as a president who grasps the basic facts about Iranian and Islamist intransigence.

The fact that Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer denounced Trump's decision to bomb Iran is evidence not just of his hypocrisy, since he supported Obama and Biden acting abroad without benefit of a congressional duration of war. Rather, it is a sign that he never really cared about the issue of Iranian nukes, since if he did, he'd back Trump's decision.

Such partisan obstructionists aside, the key to understanding what has happened involves the imperative to recognize Trump's unique willingness to act with alacrity on measures involving national security. All of which makes for a powerful argument in favor of the proposition that only Trump would have acted as he has done and that it is those qualities which his critics consider flaws rather than strengths that impel him to do so.

History is always a matter of what-if arguments that hinge on the accidents that could have changed everything. The moving of Trump's head less than an inch last summer in Butler, Pennsylvania, is one such moment. Had he been killed by an assassin that day, it's clear that the history of the struggle to stop an Iranian nuclear weapon would have been very different. Whether you believe that what happened that day was an act of divine providence designed to promote Israel's survival or merely dumb luck,

The fact remains that the ultimate disposition of Iran's nuclear threat against Israel and the West was decided at that moment. Those who support Israel, including among Trump's domestic critics, must now acknowledge that, flawed or not, he is the only president would have acted to stop Iran and potentially save Israel. Whether indispensable or not, no other possible candidate for the presidency would have done as he did in the way that he did it.

Whatever happens next, Trump ensured that the world would not be forced to confront a nuclear Iran. Friends of Israel and those who want the West to defend itself against the world's leading state sponsor of terror should be silently uttering a prayer of gratitude for what Trump has done. Thanks for listening. Please remember to tune in every day for Jonathan Tobin Daily Edition and every week for Think Twice, my full-length JNS TV program.

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