🎤 PODCAST • Violence ~ Warning signs of a potentially violent coworker - a short interview with Dr. James Campbell
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Of course not.

So why do you feel you have to apologize because you're suffering from TAS? Um, TAS? Toxic Anger Syndrome. I don't have TAS. He's angry. It's a sickness, not a crime.

I received a phone call from someone who didn't know how to interact with his co-worker. Now this co-worker isn't just someone who was a nag, isn't someone who just gets under your skin and they talk too much about their kids. This was someone who was paranoid and acted weird, strange, and the boss said he has issues. Now

The co-workers all had problems with him. They went to the boss. The boss tells them, "Oh, just ignore him. He's got issues. Just don't pay any attention to him." The boss totally was putting blinders over his own eyes.

Will something happen at this scene? I don't know. Did I have all the information to give this person an answer of what to do in this type of situation? I had a little because I've been to some conferences. But with me today is Dr. James Campbell, who has a ton of information. He is the Rhode Island Coordinator for the American Psychological Association and the American Red Cross Disaster Response Network.

and he's a frequent consultant to corporations regarding crisis response and threat of violence. So that means if you're at work and something's going on, you could call Dr. James Campbell. He is the director of the University of Rhode Island Counseling Center, and on top of this, you've got a very full life, Dr. Campbell. He teaches courses in traumatic stress and workplace violence, and he's also the author of a book, Hostage, Violence,

Welcome to the show. Thank you very much. So what would you tell that person? That person's calling up on the phone saying, I don't know how to handle it. I'm afraid of this guy. I said, are you afraid that something really dramatic might happen? He said, yes, yes. You know, we're talking about death or the guy coming in with a gun and shooting people. The guy's pretty much of a loner. So first, what are the signs that you could look for in this type of a situation? Well,

Well, there's a number of red flags you look for. Psychologists tend to not be incredibly successful at predicting violence, but nevertheless, there's a number of red flags, I call them, that you look for that raise your level of concern. And one is already clear in the story you told. If someone's feeling afraid, pay attention to that. You mean the co-workers. It's not just one co-worker. It's several. Right. And the guy's paranoid. Right. And...

So he's always accusing them, you did this to me, you did this, I'm telling the boss. Right, and that's another red flag. If someone is blaming others for all their misfortune, then that goes to make it easier for them to say, well, they deserve to be hurt. And you're on a roll there. So others being afraid, paranoia,

someone who has a very angry, inflexible, rigid kind of personality, if someone has lots of experience or familiarity with weapons or fascination with weapons or bombs or things of that nature. That sounds pretty obvious, yeah. Yeah, some of these are pretty obvious, right. But also someone is sort of despairing. You know, their life is crumbling around them, a spouse is leaving them, financial problems, they might get fired.

So there's little left to lose. Exactly. They can go on a shooting spree. Exactly. If you have someone with nothing to lose, then you want to worry more. And someone that's using drugs or alcohol? Absolutely, because that reduces their ability to control impulses and puts them at greater risk. And also, the obvious one, if they're making threats, be they veiled or direct. Could you give...

Could you give an example of a situation that you've been in or you've been involved in where they are making those type of threats? Yeah, there was a company where an employee said, well, hey, I've got to interrupt this because we've got to pay some bills. 30 seconds, that's it. A very quick ad, and then Ellen will be back. Romance. Oh, I wish guys knew more about what we want from a relationship. Boy, I wish I knew more about what I want. Where's that ad I saw?

Ah, here it is. The Selfish Path to Romance. A serious romance guidebook. Download Chapter 1 for free at SelfishRomance.com and buy it at Amazon.com. Hmm, The Selfish Path to Romance. That is interesting. Yeah, there was a company where an employee said, well, if you close this department, um,

some of these people are going to pay. And so when six, eight months later, there was a corporate decision to close that department unrelated to this gentleman, then people remembered this statement and got worried.

because you are... he's making a conditional threat, and then they were fulfilling the condition. Right. And so it was time to intervene and assess, you know, what was the level of potential threat there, and how do you defuse it. So what do you do in that situation? If you came on the scene, if this were my factory and I wanted to close this department...

What would you do? People are all up in arms. They're worried that this guy, you cannot close our department. He's going to kill our families. Who knows? Who knows what has gone through their minds? The first step, of course, would be to assess. What do we know? What has happened already? What's been said? What's the company done? What are some of the red flags that exist with this individual in terms of, you know, the weapons and substance abuse and despair and violence?

interpersonal behavior and support system and on and on, and get a better sense of the level of risk. And then people take different approaches. Some just resort to sort of high protection security approach. I will certainly utilize that, but I also believe in the value of making direct contact with the subject. And what would you say? Say I'm the subject. I'm the guy that's the loner, or I'm this particular guy who just said, you close this, it's going to be trouble. Yeah.

usually by telephone, sometimes in person, would contact them and tell them exactly who I am. I'm a consultant hired by ABC Company to help in situations where there's a conflict between employee and management. And I wanted to hear your side of the story. And over a series of contacts, phone calls, build a relationship with them. And you'd be surprised at how open people typically are about what they're thinking and feeling and planning. And then I'm able to get a

better sense of what their needs and worries are, how we can help resolve this in a way that preserves their dignity, does not increase their level of desperation, and yet meets their needs of management. And it can take usually some weeks, sometimes months even, to sort that out in a way that is satisfactory to everyone.

What companies will otherwise sometimes do is just call the person in, you're fired, get out of here, and that kind of thing. You're going to get it. Yeah, and you may have inadvertently increased the level. My wife left me. I don't see my kids anymore. Okay, exactly. And this is it. This is the final straw. I can't take it anymore. What do you do in that moment?

If they are at a very high risk, then you may take security precautions. You may move potential targets to a hotel. You may call in law enforcement or private security, those kinds of things. But most...

most of the time we could get that far if you start ticket here the opportunity to start early enough okay see you you try to diffuse the hostile person and you let him tell his story from his perspective and i'm saying his it could be a her

from his or her perspective in order to feel more visible. Yes, exactly. You tell the story, engage them, find out what their needs are. Say they're worried about losing health care because of a sick child. Okay, you work with the company. Maybe we can extend their health care beyond what's typical. What else can we do? You know, those kinds of things. And to keep them feeling, if not grateful, at least like, okay, I'm being treated with dignity.

and i'm being hurt entered to reduce their sense of this nothing left to lose exactly right great yeah listen thank you so much for joining us today this is doctor james campbell and he is that rhode island coordinator for the american psychological association american red cross disaster response network and he's someone that you could call if you're a corporation how could they get in touch with the doctor dr campbell

They could simply call, I suppose, 401-243-4552. Because you work on the national level, you work with corporations, you teach workplace violence. You don't teach how to cope with workplace violence. Okay, well, thank you so much for joining us today. It's been a pleasure.

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