Unlocking the Secrets of Psychic Dreaming (with Dr. Michael Lennox)
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You are listening to A Psychic Story, a podcast that shares behind the scenes insights of people who lead supernatural lives among the ordinary. And I'm your host, Nicole Bigley. Join me every Wednesday as I dispel the myths behind magic and lore. Welcome to A Psychic Story. Mysticism demystified.

Hi, psychic listeners. Our guest for this episode of A Psychic Story is a psychologist, astrologer, and expert in dreams and dream interpretation. He has been seen internationally on many television shows, beginning with the sci-fi networks The Dream Team, and has also been featured on numerous networks, cable television venues, and radio shows, including NBC's Emmy Award-winning Starting Over, Soap Talk, The Wayne Brady Show, and many more, talking about the power of dreams.

This is the story of Dr. Michael Lennox. Welcome to A Psychic Story. Hey, Nicole. Thanks for having me. Of course. Well, this is going to be a fun one because this is one of my favorite topics about dreams. But to start us off, what does psychic mean to you? Okay. Well, I will start with this. I would call myself profoundly intuitive.

And I say that I'm not psychic, but my mouth sometimes is. When I was younger, I wanted so badly to be able to perceive things that hadn't come yet. That's the definition of psychic, that it is the ability within the present moment to tap into the energy of time.

backwards and forwards, like going up to like a fourth dimensional place where there is no time and being able to not only perceive things, but bring information back, speak it,

and potentially be accurate to predict the future. So more of the premonition version of things and also to your point on the time aspect, which I believe as well. So thank you for sharing that. Now, what was your first psychic or supernatural experience? I had a lot of them as a kid and a teenager. Let's start there.

That's really what a psychic story is about, is what somebody's journey was and what some of their experiences have been along the way. You know, Kali, you know, I haven't, I have never actually thought about like what the pre-spark was, but somehow at around 16, 15, 16, I began, you know, this might have connected to reading Interpretation of Dreams.

by Freud, which I read at 15 years old, which sparked me to ask friends in high school, tell me your dream, right? They'd be like- That was always a fun question, ask your friends. I had a crazy dream last night.

And, oh, golly, let's just tell the whole story real quick. When I was younger, my mother played the show album to Fiddler on the Roof along with her, Beethoven and Mozart, lots of classical music. But that particular show album that I heard hundreds of times when I was a little boy has a dream sequence in it on the album where the character says, tell me what you dreamed and I'll tell you what it meant.

So my little imaginative mind had that idea planted in it at a very young age so that when I came to Freud's Interpretation of Dreams at 15, because it showed up on my mom's shelves,

I understood that dreams were powerful and that my lifelong curiosity of dreaming from being an avid dreamer as a boy, that reading of that book really opened up everything for me in terms of walking into my public spaces and sort of inserting that I had a gift to hear your dream and say something back to you. Now that I remember very clearly because it was a very logical, rational sort of trajectory that,

In the same time frame, I also began to be very curious about tarot cards and divination and the idea that there was an ability to proceed. I had the fantasy when I was younger that I might be psychic. Now,

I can't remember experiences as a teenager that fit the question answer, but I do know that by the time I was 17 years old, I had bought a deck of tarot cards and I was playing with them by reading them with friends. And by the time a year or two had passed, I found that I was good at it. Yeah. So do you think that everyone's psychic then? Oh, absolutely. The instrument of the human body is...

I like to say this about the body. The body is the only aspect of self that's in the present moment. It's in the infinite now and cannot be anywhere else. So a spiritual sensibility, which includes the capacity to be intuitive and psychic, does have to start with the notion that you're in the present moment as fully as you possibly can be.

And in that fully immersed infinite now, we in these bodies know what we know rationally and consciously with our eyes in a cogent, practical manner. But we are also tapping into everything that is not visible. Right.

Our eyes can only see the visible spectrum of light, but it doesn't mean that other light is not there. We simply cannot perceive it in the three-dimensional body of us. But all human beings have the ability to sense and speak into those other subtle sensations. Here's the distinction, though. It's a little bit like singing. If you can speak, you can sing.

That doesn't mean I want to hear you. Right. So there's talent and skill that's individual that allows individuals to be set up better for subtle perceptions. And then all of these things can be developed in time over, you know, practice. Right. So that.

Yes, everyone is psychic. Some are more naturally attuned to it and everybody can increase whatever capacity you have to feel into information that's not quite in the room, but is available in the present now to be felt.

And spoken it to. Yeah. And I really like the way I just got chills that you were explaining that because it's another way of looking at it that I haven't really heard as much in detail on the show. And I forget the exact stat, but it's something really low, like five.

2%, 5% of what we can actually see with our physical eyes. Science says that. So it's not 50%. It's not even 80%. It's like such a super low stat that it just, it blows my mind to think, wow, what are all the things happening around us? Like you're saying those subtle energy bodies as well, or those layers, those realities, those dimensions that we can't see. So when you were 15 and 16 and you got into the dream aspect,

What led you as you got older to further explore that connection between dreams and intuition? Well, the experience of interpreting a dream was so powerful from the very first time I ever did it that that alone is sort of like it was a path in and unto itself.

admittedly, since we're talking like, you know, Turkey about how it really started. I will also say this as a kind of, you know, I'm a Leo sun and Venus. I love attention. I want to be at the center of things and I want to be well liked and loved. So when I would tell, uh, when I would hear a dream and then speak,

I had no idea what I was doing. I later figured it out. But that had a natural gift for tapping into something. The...

shock and wide eyes of the people I spoke to and their declaration that what I said made so much sense and feeling that intimate interactions like, well, I wanted more of that. I wanted to be the guy who offered something that made other people look back at me and say, wow, that was cool. So at 16, 17 and 18, that really was a drive to move that experience out of the high school hallways and to put it into education.

any environment I was in, and I would put myself in, you know, stick myself in the front and center if anybody spoke a dream. And everywhere I went in my sort of early 20s and mid-20s, I was getting known as the guy who could interpret dreams. So because I was doing it so richly in a very pedestrian kind of way, I worked

to Los Angeles when I was about 25 and this is a town where there's a lot of shingles being, you know, hung about woo-woo expertise. I found myself in a dream workshop and I discovered in that workshop that I indeed had a natural gift. I watched other people

doing a lot of what's called projection, meaning if you had a dream about your mother, I'd be like, well, that dreams about how nasty she was, except that that's my mother, right? Your mother, I had this ability to not do that projecting. And so that class,

illuminated the idea that this thing that was in me was worthy of exploration. I just wanted more of what was available in me.

the extended consciousness that dreams and talking about them tapped me into. So by the time I was 28 years old, I did my first workshop. I just found a yoga studio in LA. And I said, hey, can I rent your studio for Sunday afternoon? And they said, sure. And you know, 15, 20 people showed up. And I was like, oh, okay.

There's something here. And then I just followed that, those breadcrumbs. And though I had a career in the entertainment industry on the business side of things, by the time I was like 38 years old, I had a master's, not quite the doctorate yet, I had a master's in psychology and I got that show on the SyFy network.

And it was that media experience, though the show failed. We shot 65 shows, but it was taken off the air after three months. Doing the show made it very clear that if I wanted to be a spiritual teacher in the world, I could do that. And I incorporate dreams and then astrology. And so that was the turning point of that.

making a life where that's all I do. Yeah, and it's cool that you went that route because I remember as a teenager, I think I've said this before on the show, I borrowed my mom, I borrowed, air quotes, my mom's Tarot deck and Tarot deck and my grandmother, her mom's dream dictionary. And anytime I would have a dream, I would look it up, but it was like looking up a word and then there would be a little bit of a definition or meaning behind it and it never went deeper. So it's really nice to hear that you went through and were able to pull through

All of that. And I want to get into that a little bit more. But first, one of my favorite questions I used to ask my teenage friends would be, do you dream? Do you dream in color or do you dream in black and white? And it was always fascinating to hear everybody's answer. So I'm going to ask you that question. What has been and anything else, too, about how people may dream and what it's like? Because I know there's different stages, but what has been your experience? Well, one of the things that's interesting about the black and white color experience is

In my hearing of dreams, what I've heard mostly is the experience of

color being significant when it happens that way. And there might be an assumption that ipso facto all other dreams are in black and white, but I've not heard that spoken of. And I've never had a dream that was in black and white. Me either, yeah. So I do think that the black and white thing is really just in comparison to this vibrant dream of color that I can't shake when I wake up. It was so

bright and colorful, then the thought is, oh, then other dreams must be not in color. And I don't think that's true. But I do think that when a dream is fully lit up in color, something is happening inside our brain holding the idea of the dream. And it's

got more importance on some level because it's got more vibration of color in it. And I think people remember those dreams and there might be some kind of purpose in the more memorable dreams that the unconscious might be adding something to help you remember more. And that might be vibrant color. Yeah. And I wonder if people that can't see visually in their mind's eye, because there is a certain, you know,

person out there that can. It's called aphantasia. Exactly. Yes. They can't see in their mind's eye or that creative imagination. Maybe they don't necessarily dream the way we think visually, but they could be dreaming another way. Well, and speaking of the idea of what we think and what others think, this is something that I know like unequivocally is that people have dream styles.

And they're very individual person to person. And they are usually very consistent within that person's experience. My dreams are always in community. I just find myself in a spiritual community, a township community, a school community. It's always community. And interestingly, in astrology, Neptune, the planet of dreams, is in my 11th house.

which is the house of community. I think that's interesting. It'd be an interesting study to sort of compare dream styles and Neptune placements. But like I've met people who like, I knew a guy at a dream circle at a cancer center that I worked in for about four or five years. Every dream was about the old West and he was Canadian. It was like, why are you dreaming of like trains and the old West? It was his life dream.

Style to dream of journeys and going places that reflected kind of an unknown freedom that the West sort of represented. Symbolic. I've had people who dream almost exclusively in terms of the dreams they remember driving.

you know, driving is a great symbol for how we move through the world. But like, I've never had dreams that were just about me driving places, but I've known people where that was, you know, 50% of the dreams they remember. Right. Yeah. So I just think that's interesting and fascinating that,

A, people dream true to themselves. And based on the age and the generation, the media consumed influences dreams. If you're under 40, you're dreaming of zombies. If you're over 40, probably not. Oh, my gosh. You just made me. This was not on the list of questions, but I want to kind of take a little detour here. I'm sure you've heard of this then about dream advertising. Yeah.

Yes. Say more. Okay. So just like, you know, Elon Musk, he has patented some aspects of telepathy and technology telepathy for all that, which, you know, that's a whole other conversation for another day.

So I was going down this rabbit hole and I was looking into that. And allegedly, different advertisers have been doing dream seeding. So what they'll do is like in social media or on television or on radio, they'll do certain things so that then when you dream, you literally dream of a product in your dream. And you're basically having this commercial. You have the look on your face.

No, honey, I am gobsmacked at this. And I'm both like really titillated by the idea and horrified. Yes. So anyway, maybe you can come back after we do some more research and talk about it. But it hadn't happened to me before, but I wanted to play around with it. And I did have a dream and it was a commercial dream. And I woke up and I was like, holy crap, this is real. Did you buy the product? Well, I did. I did actually. Yeah.

It was a coffee. It was a certain type of coffee. And I woke up craving it. And then I went and literally bought it.

You know, this is not something that I know about, but it makes sense. You know, in the world of lucid dreaming, where people want to call forth the ability to become more aware that you're dreaming in the dream state, there's a technique that's taught by lucid dreaming teachers, which says if you just look at your hands every day, all day long, just periodically, just hold your hands up and look at them, and that will show up in a dream at some point, and you'll be...

sort of clicked into being lucid. Oh, look, my hands, I'm lucid. But there's purpose to this within the brain structure.

And what's happening in REM sleep? In REM sleep, outside of the mystical dreaming experience we're having, we are also culling through everything we received in data from the day, taking important stuff and creating short-term memory with it and taking everything else and just discarding it into the abyss, which means, well, this is why we often dream of the day's events, because at the same time, the brain is going over the day's events. Yeah, we're processing it. Mm-hmm.

Yes. So the technique says, look at your hands 12 times a day for a week or two or three, and eventually in the process of looking at your day, the image will bleed into your dream experience. Boom, you're lucid.

I don't know how people would sit in a boardroom and figure out what kind of imagery to use, but this isn't that different from what the advertising industry did in the 50s and the 60s with learned psychology

And imagery could spark need and want and desire. There must be ways to create imagery that they believe will hit someone's unconscious that they will then somehow return to in the dream state and wake up the next day with a craving for a coffee. I did, and I didn't, and I was kicking myself, but I really had a craving for this one in particular. It was a chai, it was a cherry chai iced latte from, you know, the green beacon of hope. I won't get...

They are not. They're not a sponsor of the show. So I will. But anyway, but anyway. So, yeah, so that I'll send you some information afterwards. And I'd love your take more as you look into it. Yeah. So let's get him back to this actual psychic aspect of things. You talk about dreams being portals for psychic information. How do you define like a psychic dream versus a regular dream?

Um, well, first of all, let's talk about how they happen, right? That our thinking mind, which is how we navigate everything in the world, but that is really not organic to who we really are. It's like a narrator that's been staple gunned into our brain so that we know where we're going and we don't pop into the furniture. And it's this

sort of three-dimensional rational mind that is the biggest sort of diminisher of the still small intuitive voice, right? This is why so many people are not reporting being intuitive and psychic during their waking life. It's not that they aren't. It's just that their three-dimensional narrating mind is so loud and we're so identified with that as who we are that other information can't be felt and heard. But when we go to sleep, so does that mind.

And so with that mind quiet, we are free to have sensory perceptions in the other dimensions that are louder because the big loud voice is not, you know, screaming in our ear. And so the other thing to add to this, Nicole, is that there's a

An illusion about sleep that is like it's an off button, right? That waking life is on and sleeping is off. But it's not. Yes, our metabolism is slower. Yes, in REM sleep, the brain will paralyze the body so it can't move. There's all kinds of stuff happening.

happening. But it's not like we're not in the room and able to perceive. We're just shutting down from that three-dimensional way. So in that experience, it's in the dream state that people are precognitive. People share dreams that other people are having. People are visited by ancestors. And so the first thing about a precognitive dream is that it's got to look like your life.

That's number one, right? It's got to be your experience that you could be perceiving. Number two is that it has to have sort of like cogency. It's not a crazy, wacky dream of and then we were on the hill and then we were there and then we catapulted to the other landscape. Right. It has to have singularity of setting and out, you know, storyline.

And then, of course, it has to come to be when you wake up in the short period of time after the dream within a few days or a week or so, the experience will then follow.

You mean you're talking about like the psychic aspect of a dream? Right. You know, and this is also something about psychic precognitive dreams. Sometimes it's a really innocuous thing. Like my very first precognitive dream was in my high school experience where I just had a dream of sitting around in a circle with a bunch of people cross-legged. Community. Yeah.

Well, I was in a dance class in high school where we had like an important like meeting because there was some drama. And so instead of dancing that day, we sat in a circle cross-legged. And this is about three, four days after the dream. And she'd have, I'd remember that that could have been one of my psychic experiences as a teenager is that blew me away. So, um,

The value wasn't having a message about an event that I needed to know about so that I could, you know,

sit in the right place in the circle or, you know, change my destiny. It was just an image, but it helped me understand that we are bigger than our three-dimensional perceptions, right? So, but it is that all of those things is what you want to look for. Singularity of storyline and place, your life, and then the outcome. Let's talk a little bit about that then too, because

I've heard of other people that had those experiences and it wasn't necessarily like something major, but it was a regular thing that was happening in your day. So when we're in the 3D, we're kind of bound by like the time and space of our physical bodies in the present moment. And then as we, you know, when we're in the 4D or the 5D and other dimensions, we're not bound by that. So was it that you were astral traveling to the future? Were you experiencing it and you were

able to connect to that dimension? What's happening when we have one of those types of dreams? That's a great question. So here's how I'm going to imagine that works. I think of us in bodies as the three-dimensional experience of us. I would then call the fourth dimension the place where time is irrelevant, right? So we can perceive backwards and forwards. And then the fifth dimension would be the

in that other dimensionality that's like holding us. Kind of like we might, you know, buy a movie on a CD or, you know, a DVD and then that's the whole movie. And maybe we know the movie because we've seen it before. We know the movie from beginning to middle to end. It's like, ooh, I know that. You know the whole plot, yeah. I know the whole thing. And every once in a while I might watch it. So the watching of the DVD is us.

us in our bodies. Our bodies are not the DVD. Our bodies are the laser that's interpreting the DVD and time is passing through our bodies, having the storyline of our lives, you know, play out. This is the language that I use to understand these different levels of dimensional structure, which, you know, we're making this up, right? You know, if we got a quantum physicist in the room, he'd be talking about how there are 12.

At any rate, in the idea that the dream state has the rational mind to sleep and the perceptive mind that is always in the fourth dimension, it's not somewhere we go, it's somewhere we are. And then the sleeping mind to sleep allows the fourth dimension to be open, period. So somehow in that experience, in my 16-year-old body, I'm guessing that, yes,

My psyche went into fourth dimension in time, just sort of rode forward, saw an image, threw it into the dream. And lo and behold, three, four days later, I'm there in three-dimensional time. But that it is, in fact, that my psyche going up into the place where there is no time. And then I think then the value of such a dream, when it's just an innocuous image, it's

It's a synchronicity. It reminds us that we are not just these three-dimensional limited consciousnesses, that we're much bigger than that. And it's no different than synchronicities out there in the world when two impossibly disparate experiences happen at the same time and it looks like they have meaning because they're simultaneous, but they're not. And my attitude about synchronicities is you want to give them all meaning and no meaning. Both.

Similar with the dream state, we want to let our ability to be precognitive in dreams to mean like we're magic and to have it also mean nothing at all so that we find our ability to ride that center of cognitive dissonance where we are both three-dimensional and multidimensional, which is a tense path to navigate.

But getting reminded that we are that by dream experiences such as we're talking about, I think makes it easier to accept and therefore then explore our multidimensionality. Yes. No, I love that. And that's also kind of how I, when I was younger, I think I was like five or six or something, and I was asking my parents, I've talked about this before on the podcast, but you probably haven't heard this.

and I was getting regular moments of deja vu. So I'd ask my parents like what deja vu was, and they told me, and then I was like, no, that's not it. And they're like, well, what do you think it is? Because the answer didn't resonate with me. I don't even remember what it was. And I said, I think it's like my presence, which I didn't know how to say my higher self, experiencing this moment and like the past, present, and future all catching up at one moment. So it feels familiar that I've been here because I have already been here.

Or dreaming is also another portal or doorway into you being able to connect or be in those moments all simultaneously to some extent. Okay, so I would love to go a little bit more into each of these. For cognitive dreaming, if you feel like there's anything else to share.

the lucid dreaming and then the shared dreaming. I actually asked my mom this today. I said, I don't think I've ever had a shared dream. And she said, no, actually, there was a dream that you, your sister and I all had at the same time. And I said, what was it? She's like, I don't know. It obviously wasn't important. But if you don't mind sharing a little bit for people that may not be familiar with each of those, the precognitive or precognitive, rather the lucid and the shared dreaming. You write about this in your book.

Yeah. Let me say a few things about precognitive, just sort of wrap that topic up. I once had a call from someone I knew that had a lot of precognitive dreams in a very detailed and specific way. It ran in her family, so it was a gift that was multi-generational. And she had a dream that she was in a car accident on a particular street in Los Angeles that's very windy and traffic-y. And it's

terrible in the rain here in Los Angeles because we don't get much and when we do, it's very slick with all the oil. And the only thing I can say to her is like, honey, this year in the rainy season, if it rains, don't take Sepulveda. Right? So it's like... Like that's your answer. Yeah. Because she was

calling me in fear and I wanted to sort of like reflect back to her that dreams are never not for us. They're always for our benefit, right? And in this one, it might have been a literal message to be like, all right, I think I'll take the freeway and it'll take me longer but I won't be on Sepulveda in the rain. But I

I share this little cute story just to make the point for listeners that I've never heard of a precognitive dream then leading to a disaster that happens in movies. But it's not going to happen to you when you have that dream that somebody fell off a cliff. When it's about you. Well, I just mean in general. Well, I'm going to share one with you.

Well, I can't wait to hear that. And I believe you, except that what I also know about human beings is that we're terrified and they're more likely going to be that if you have a fearful reaction to a precognitive dream.

The likelihood that that fear is valid is very, very slim. But you're about to like blow that idea for me. Well, no. Well, actually, one of my questions later was, are there any dangers or misconceptions about psychic dreams? So definitely, you're ahead of the game here. There was one evening, and again, I was a teenager. I must have been like 14. I was doing a lot of same things like you were, the tarot and then the dream dictionary and everything. And I had read somewhere, I believe it was by Linda Goodman in her book, Shrugged.

She has a few. She's no longer living. And it was that you can open up to all of your psychic gifts and your intuitive gifts by pure intention. So I laid there and with all of my might, I said, I, universe, I'm open to all of my gifts. And I was really excited. And I went to bed that night and I had the most vivid dream ever.

that I I've never had another one like it but I could feel physically and I was in my I was in my body but it wasn't my body I was another girl at the same age and I was at this party and everyone was drinking beer and everything and we got into this SUV in this car and was with friends and I was sitting in the back seat in the middle and we're going and the person decides to get on who's driving get on the highway and go really fast on like this ramp and as it's

exiting and merging onto this other highway, they lose control and the car starts to like speed out and it goes down this ditch. And right before it hit the tree, I remember going, God, this is going to hurt. And I felt my soul lift out of my body.

And I woke up in the middle of the evening. I was like, that was a really weird dream. It was a Sunday night. It was before school started on a Monday. And as I was getting ready that next morning, there was on the radio station that a group of teenagers that same night I had the dream.

literally were at a party, same car, whatever, and all five or six of them, I think there were five in the car, all died. And it was like the school or the town over. And I remember being horrified and I also scared in that moment. And I said, and this is where I blocked myself, I said, I asked my guides and angels, I said, why would you give me a dream like that or something if I couldn't do anything to stop it or help it? And they said, because you asked.

Well, I'm literally sitting here the entire time you're talking to say, because you're right. Exactly. Yes. The story that you told, the powerful moment in the story was the petition you asked for. And so I think you got an undeniable, you know, example and the, the darker stuff,

is more memorable and more likely to come in a dream state because I think there's purpose to that. I think that when we are having a dream and it's a nightmare and we wake up and we remember it, that the unconscious is doing that sort of on purpose. And this is kind of the same thing. You dug in and you gave a profoundly earnest, you know, desire for an experience and it had to be dark because A,

A, that's easier to tap into and then undeniable. And if it makes sense, I can't tell you how many stories I've heard people getting a glimpse of their gifts and sort of pulling back and feeling a little frightened. And I share that because it was a moment of empowerment. And I didn't mean to talk too much about me, but it came up because I feel it's important for listeners to hear because then I asked my guides and angels, what can I do about it? And

And they said, well, again, ask and through intention. So my then intention was, I'm happy to have those types of dreams and experiences. However, then I want to be able to do something about it or be empowered to share or help or I don't know. And so it's been few and far between. So I might change it later. But

back on track. So yes, so the precognitive aspect, thank you so much for sharing that. And how can someone tell then if a dream is purely subconscious, like processing versus a genuine psychic insight? I know you talked a little bit about that, like those three steps. Is that the main way or are there like other differentiators? I will say that

Every dream that's more of a dream experience tends to be very different in sensation, and it always taps back to the idea of singularity and cogency, whereas subconscious dreams that are helping us process stress and daily life anxieties don't.

will be chaotic. They will have very changeable stories and very dreamlike transitions. And that every other dream that would be called a dream experience tends to be more simple or singular or somehow simpler to take in. And that is

your first sort of, you know, indication that you're not in ordinary dreaming, but in some kind of a dream experience. Thank you. Thank you for that. And then that goes back to what we were talking about before then. So you talked about lucid dreaming a little bit. Can you share more, go a little deeper there?

First of all, lucid dreaming is very popular out there. People are very interested in having lucid dream experiences. So the simplest form of lucidity is just knowing that you're dreaming. And being in the middle of a dream, go, hey, I think I'm dreaming. But then it can go to higher and higher and higher levels of conscious awareness of lucidity to the point where people who are

both organically lucid often and or have, you know, sort of strengthened it as a muscle. They can wake up from a lovely dream and decide to go back to sleep and reenter that lovely dream. That's a lovely form of lucidity.

Like some of the other experiences we've talked about, lucid dreams can be one of those powerful reminders of your multidimensionality so that even if you don't want to chase the experience, having one can sort of be in your reservoir of spiritual experiences that help you prove the existence of multidimensionality.

The idea of looking at your hands is, of course, the major technique that's out there. But understand that intention is everything. You know this well because you had that early experience

But really, intention and asking is behind every experience that we want to have that's in the direction of, you know, meditation and prayer and spiritual anything, because intention is hugely powerful. I knew a guy who was in a lucid dream class over six weeks where all they did was dive in.

into the intention to interview someone who had passed away. And that was it. There were no hand gazings. They were just constant meditations and imaginative holdings. And this man wanted to interview Marilyn Monroe. And at some point, he has this dream in a wide open, expansive, dark place. He's sitting in a chair. There's another chair. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Click, click, click, click. Get her high heels up, box. Marilyn Monroe. And

and says, hey, I'm ready for my interview. And she sits down. Now, was that Marilyn Monroe? I don't know. But did that man's life become transformed because he realized that there was an interesting power of consciousness that was outside of ordinary consciousness? So that kind of thing is, you know, also lucid. I personally am not naturally a lucid dreamer. Same. And yeah, yeah, I have a little bit of envy. I

I don't have much in the experience of interesting dreaming compared to the people I've listened to. And lucid dreaming is one of them. But I will tell you, Nicole, I had a dream experience. It was probably about 2013 or 14. The dream was that I was sitting on my living room couch. I was in a very small apartment at that time and the bedroom was right over there.

I was as awake and alert in that dream as I am right now. No hyperbole, no exaggeration. The dream was, holy, I'm asleep. I'm dreaming and I'm right in that room right there. If I could get up, I could go look at myself sleeping. Oh my God. And that was it. I've never been able to replicate that.

I don't know why that occurred. I can't look to the timing of it. Other than it was a big transition in my life. I was moving out of somewhere where I was being financially supported while I was doing my doctorate, my first couple of books. So that might have been why my psyche wanted me to have such an experience because I was stepping into a much more profound chapter of my life of teaching.

But I can tell you, if I thought I could strengthen a muscle to have that experience more, oh, I would do it. Yeah, because they say during your lucid dreams, it's a really good manifestation tool as well. Absolutely, because it is no different from the waking life. In fact, that's the value of it is that in the dream state, in lucidity, you understand that you can create anything.

And you're not bound by time and reality. Here I am. That's right. It's written the thing. I actually did that in this dream. And that's what woke me up. What did you do? Can you share? Just say it was me being a little cute and naughty. Okay. Okay. When the only few times I've done it as a teenager was I would always go shopping.

You know, like it was totally I was in my ego. I would go shopping and be like, oh, I'm going to try on this outfit. I'm going to try on this outfit. I'm going to. It was more of that type of experience. Now I would be using that power of manifestation for a lot more than clothes. One of the things that I'll say in the chapter of lucid dreaming is that.

I don't think we can have powerful experiences like this if we aren't in our waking life practicing some form of mental discipline, some meditation, some ability to clean and clear the waking mind because that musculature works in the sleeping mind as well.

The more we understand how to slow down our chaotic brainwaves while we're waking, the more we'll be able to tap into the sensations of other dimensional experiences. And so this becomes important too. You want to have deeper dream experiences, get yourself more disciplined in the waking life experience of quieting your mind and, and,

Certainly, if I were teaching lucid dreaming, which I never would, that would be my first demand. You want to work on this for a few weeks, make sure you're meditating every day and learning how to quiet. Wonderful. Thank you for sharing about that. And let's talk now about shared dreaming.

Again, I don't remember apparently the one shared dream I had with my mom and my sister. But I love that you had one and that you remember. Yeah, apparently I did. Beautiful. You know, I didn't even know this was a thing when I was writing my first book on dreams. It's called Dream Sight. It's more about how I consider universality and more of a teaching tool than the dream dictionary that I wrote.

Um, but while I was working on it, I had a woman managing my career back then who owned a bookstore here in LA called Every Picture Tells a Story. It was like a comic book, uh, uh, uh, gallery and bookstore. And I went there to write because I had trouble disciplining. And there was a woman who worked for the store who became a good friend.

As I'm writing the dream book, she's like, you know, bringing me cookies and tea and, you know, keeping me disciplined. She told me stories about shared dreaming.

So that when I wrote another book, I contacted her for the fuller story. And then this story is in the book Psychic Dreamer and is one of the richest things I've ever heard. And the short version is two friends, lifelong, very intimate, very close. Both of them would go off once a year on a kind of sister cabin in the woods retreat.

As just something that they did routinely. And they both went to this place for their yearly outing and they both had horrible dreams about the place. It was the same dream. And so they woke up the next morning and decided to leave.

And then another experience months later was very similar. And they were both having dreams about father stuff that was like a shared dream. And at this moment, because I can't remember anything I've ever done, I don't remember the details of it. But the final experience they had was reflecting the fact that neither of them knew that the friend was very sick with cancer. And in a month or two, she would be gone.

But the dream experience sort of told them that through shared dream experiences. And they were able to have a beautiful last couple of months. And they're still, she's still visiting in dreams. Oh, wow. How cool.

So when I went to write Psychic Dreamer, which was a book that my publisher asked me to write, it wasn't something I was dying to do. I was asked, would you like to explore this topic and write a book? Sure. I reached out to my following and I was just amazed at how many stories of shared dreaming that there were out there. And it's almost always between people who are very intimate or family members.

But here's the thing, Nicole, the only reason why you now know that you had one is because your mother told you because you shared your dreams when you were younger. Yeah.

My two friends knew this because they shared their dreams with each other. If we were all sharing our dreams on the regular with our environment, I bet you we'd find more. Yeah, we'd find more. Way more than we know. Yeah, so what was really cool, the synchronicity. I read your book. I knew this interview was coming up. I've been wanting to schedule it for a while and talk with you. And then I was in my car. I think I was actually coming back from Starbucks, actually, not the time I had drank it.

And I grabbed my iced coffee and I heard on the radio, which I normally am not listening to the radio, and there was this study that came out. And so I wrote these down because I wanted to share. And it said that, and I thought of you immediately, that about 14.5% or 15% of dreams are shared.

So that's the it's a small percentage to your point. But maybe if we were sharing more with others and talking about it, and it's primarily through those romantic partners, friends and relatives. So but there also could be imagining like collective dreams and sharing when things come up, because I heard a lot about that when it happened with the L.A. wildfires, that people were having like shared dreams and they weren't even necessarily in the city necessarily. Yeah.

When big events like that happen, so many people are dreaming about it. And yes, I absolutely believe if we could codify that, we would see very similar imagery being shared by lots and lots of people.

because we are connected through this collective. We're not separate. That's an illusion. And big events hit us all in a collective way. So I think that's a place where shared dreaming is absolutely taking place. I think that number is high, even though you're saying it would be bigger if we were talking about dreams more. Oh, it's still high. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. It's not the, you know, the three or 5% of what we can see type of thing that we were talking about earlier. Okay. So, uh,

How can we use dreams to solve problems? I call this petitioning your dreams.

So this is as simple as what you did as a teenager, right? Where you ask, you must ask for a dream to, you know, inform something for you because intention is everything. It won't just happen. The best way to do the asking, I think, is to get out your dream journal and write it down as like a message to your higher self. Hey,

I'm having this problem. I want a dream to reflect the decision I'm trying to make. Thank you. Make it clear. And then you go to sleep and you have to trust whatever dream comes. Sometimes it's very obvious. My favorite story is actually from my own life. This was also back around 13 and 14, moving into this new apartment. It was dating somebody and it was not feeling great. I,

was ambivalent about some of the things I was reading in between

the sentences with this guy. So I petition my dreams. I'm like, hey, I need to know what to do with this guy. Send me a dream, make it clear. So I have a dream that I'm at a celebration that I realized, oh, it's an anniversary. Oh, and I'm the partner and my partner is in the other room and I'm aware he's been behaving very badly at this event, celebrating our relationship.

And then he comes in and I go up to him to like complain, I guess. And it's my father. I'm like, okay, time to break up with Alex. Alex, hopefully you're not listening to this. This is the old paradigm. This is not who you are any longer where you're going to chase the unrequited love. So,

petitioning your dreams is that simple, but you do have to just trust the dream that comes, even if no dream comes or the dream seems inexplicably not related.

It's still an answer. And so one thing that I think you have to take into consideration if you're going to do this work is that sometimes the answer comes unconsciously and you have to trust that you've made a difference in your experience by asking and dreaming and waking. Mm-hmm.

Now, more often than not, though, the dream's answer feels clear in the way that I describe, maybe not quite so overt, but that's how it works. And there are I have so many stories about this working that I wouldn't be able to even tell you any outside of the one that I remember so well for myself because it's kind of funny.

But I think it's a profound way to check in with yourself because of this idea that this three-dimensional mind is only one tiny part of us and it's the one that we rely on. You know, when someone says to me, oh, I've got to figure that out. I'm like, well, have fun. It's like,

Value. Your mind figuring it out is just killing time while your unconscious is preparing to deliver you the message. Yes, yes. So by doing it with your genes on purpose, you speed the process of growth and maturity up.

Yeah. And another way to say that, or what I'm hearing intuitively too, is that your subconscious mind never turns off. So, and when you're dreaming, it's that, again, as we were talking, almost that doorway or that window or that portal into you being more, maybe,

maybe consciously aware, not only in the dream state or the wake state. When I was younger, my dad would tell me about the power of dreams. And he said, if you have a problem, go into your dreams asking for the solution, exactly what you're saying. And my problems when I was a teenager was usually I wanted to pass a test. I was never really good at studying or anything. And so I was always studying on the other side because I didn't like to do it when I

when I was awake type of state. So that actually brings me to the next question. So what is night school? Ah, night school. So night school is any number of experiences that you have that are dream experiences. They happen at night that are like downloads of information. In some ways, Nicole, it's like

If you have this experience or have had it, you know exactly what I'm talking about. And if you haven't, it's such a woo-woo idea.

As half scientist, half mystic, I don't always have great language for this particular one. The idea that we wake up different because we've had some experience at night. Almost like activation, like you're activated or something as another word of it, maybe. I actually like that word activation. I might like borrow it because that,

It energetically fits the idea that something happens in our psyche while sleeping that we are changed the next day because something was activated. In plant medicine work that I've done, which I never did earlier in my life, I didn't do any plant medicine work until 2016, so I came to it very late in life, which I'm grateful for. I won't go into the whole plant medicine story, but I will say that

In my medicine journeys, I have had physical interactions with the five-dimensional parts of me and experienced surgeries in the room that were being activated by these other dimensional me.

either other beings or my higher, I don't know. I just know I have the experience, right? And so it's sort of the same thing, you know, over in dream downloads is that I liked your language of the subconscious is always activated. And in the same regard, you know,

We are multidimensional beings and there's cogency and structure there. This is not some airy-fairy, you know, fantasy that we are multidimensional. Science is beginning to catch up to describe the math of it. So there really is a higher self and it can touch us here in ways that if you could perceive it would blow your f***ing mind.

And so I think there are things that happen where our five-dimensional self like downloads information. And what often happens to the people who have described such experiences or when I have had them, one day is you wake up exhausted.

because you've been very busy at night. There might be dream memory, there might not be, but there's some kind of this back of the idea. If you've had this experience, you know what I'm talking about, but if you haven't, it's hard to describe. But I think it's happening all the time. I think it's one of the ways we get wiser every night that we go to sleep.

Because we have an experience on a Tuesday. We go into the multidimensional sensibility of us and we download all the important things and get rid of the unimportant. And our higher self is involved in that process. And so we wake up wiser on Wednesday. I need to turn the faucet back on because I was just about to tell you that I didn't have what you're talking about, any sort of experience where I felt differently when I woke up.

And now as you're talking, I recognize some of those other signs. So thank you for that. Because I know for a while I was waking up completely exhausted and my intuition told me I was working or something was happening on the other side. And I said to my guides and angels, I need you to stop. I want to wake up rested. I'm exhausted. I'm exhausted.

And then I was in a session with a client at one point and I was like, you know what? I haven't dreamed or dreamt in a really long time. And I said, oh crap, I totally forgot. I turned off the faucet. You turned off the faucet. So you can turn it back on. Yeah, I did. I did. And I've been having really wild dreams. Yes. Appreciate that. So anything else around night school that you wanted to share before we move on? I shared this. Beware of a need to feel like you have to cogently understand everything.

something that's occurred. Yes. You don't. Mm-hmm.

You don't because on the level that you need to, you do. And so I think a lot of people get frustrated because they wake up and maybe they have a vague memory of something that's happened and they want to know. Like in a dream where the important message is going to be revealed and then you wake up, it's like people are frustrated. They didn't get the message. It's like you were. Yeah. And then you think about it all the time and it drives you nuts. Yeah. I, my guides and angels gave me this and I use this for intuition. And when you get psychic information too, and they said, think about it this way.

sometimes you're in the to line of an email, like you're actually in the to, you know, and the email sent to you, Nicole Bigley, and you're supposed to pay attention and you're supposed to take action. You're supposed to reply.

And then sometimes you're in the CC. It's like, FYI, you're not meant to know or understand or reply. And then sometimes you're in the BCC line. So I was like, okay, that makes sense. And I think that that takes the pressure off of people and the stress that you're either going to know or you're going to know or later it's going to make sense to you. You don't have to like rack your brain about it all the time. So thank you for sharing that.

that. Okay. I did feel really led. My guides and angels were screaming at me earlier. They're like, go back to visitations because you were talking about the two women who had the friend and then she passed and then she's still, you know, seeing them in dreams. I get a lot of people that ask me questions about either wanting to connect with their loved ones or even their spirit team or their higher self. And I would imagine that you say, because you write about this and you shared a little bit before as well, but it's all about intention and

and what you're asking for, but are there other ways that people who are curious or would love to be able to speak to people and other souls on the other side, or visitations, what that's like? I'm going to start with what happens when someone alive has lost someone to death and wants a visit and it doesn't happen. Okay, yes, please. So,

All I can know about these things is through my anecdotal experience. Right. And so I have experienced that idea so often that I know it's very common for people who are in the know about these things to want that experience because they hear about how loving and satisfying and beautiful it is.

Now, I don't know if this is accurate or true or not, but the sort of like what I've heard out there from other practitioners over the years is that it's

If you don't get a visit, it's because it's not necessary in the scope of your soul's unfolding to have it and that the person who receives the visitation is in some need to have the connection and that if it's not coming, try again not to argue with what is so.

And then part and parcel to that, I'd be like, the only thing I know that could possibly attract it to you is to doggedly set the intention to have the experience. And by doggedly, I mean, if you want that experience, make it a constant sort of discipline that you're asking for it and then try to forget whether you're getting it or not, but focus on the intention, the intention, the intention. I don't know what to say about that more. I mean, like, that's it. That's all I got for you.

And keep trying. Keep trying. Like try and release, try and release, try and release. Yeah. I certainly understand why people want to have the experience because they're extraordinary because they really are a moment when the veil has lifted and there's an experience being happening right there in your body and your brain and in your bed that you're not

really turned off to the consciousness of though you are sleeping. What an experience to know that the veil is an illusion and that there's a connection beyond the body because you can feel it. I've never heard anybody who was reporting this to me that wasn't sort of overwhelmed by the feeling of connection being real and bona fide. I also had the experience of watching it change people's lives and

from the perspective of opening up a spiritual view that did not exist before the phenomena of the visit. So they can be life-changing as well.

And I think the extraordinary thing about that is that there really is, death is not what we think it is. We're just on the wrong side. Yeah. Have you ever had a visitation in your dreams? I have. I have. My brother and my father, who both have passed, both visited me in dreams. And interestingly enough, my mom hasn't. What's fascinating to me about that is when my father died, I was 20 something. So I still had lots of baggage there.

And so receiving the visitation sort of fits my idea that if you need it, it'll come.

And my mom and I had such a deeply complex relationship that by the time she passed, which was just five years ago, the forgiveness was so complete. Her passing was one of the most numinous spiritual experiences I've ever had because I felt it in my body. I was out at an event. I saw it in light in my mind's eye and I felt like this huge,

steel band of stuckness wrap off my body. And I felt this bliss. My friend came back from the bathroom. I said, I think my mom died. And she in fact had passed. So she sort of visited me on her way out of her body. But the feeling of completion was so full.

that, A, she's never visited. I don't think she ever needs to. And I don't grieve in any sadness for her, which a lot of people get uncomfortable when I say that. They're like, but she's your mother. It's like, yeah, but if she didn't offer me any care, I can't miss the care that was never there. But I don't have any animus with my mom anymore because the forgiveness was complete. And that passing experience blew my mind. But now it's just like, bye.

I can steal my father and brother if I call them in, and I can't do that with her. Don't know what it means, but each person importance who has passed has shown up in some phenomenal way. Yeah, we also don't know what your mom might be doing on the other side and or what her abilities are to do. I've said this multiple times on the show. I wanted my mom's mom, my maternal grandmother to, I said, oh,

only one person has this permission to do this. I was like, I want you to like jump out of a closet or something after you pass away and be like, boo, and scare me. And I want to see a ghost and an apparition just because, you know, just to like as a fun little thing, I guess it's not really fun. And she can't, she can't do that. She told me that, but she shows up in other ways. And I know that she is. And so I feel like that manifestation or it's not really a manifestation, but the experience, it depends on what that soul might be able to provide to someone.

And their abilities. Okay, great. Okay, so as we're rounding this out, for someone who is interested in more psychic dreaming and those types of insights and experiences, what's the best way for them to either start tracking or working with their dreams to connect with their psychic abilities? First and foremost, that daily meditation.

You know, you got to start with a fit body. You wouldn't want to do an athletic competition unless you had done like six months of pushups, right? So, right. So we got to keep ourselves fit in that way. Setting the intention is powerful. I think that,

I'm going to make an assumption that who you're speaking about might be somebody who remembers dreams, but maybe haven't sort of like taken a dive in. That would be the first step. Get yourself a dream journal. I know it's 2025, but please get paper and pen or pencil because you're working with your unconscious and the visceral experience from hand and fingers to pen and body is direct. Uh, so please make it a journal. Um,

Not only do you have to set intentions to remember your dreams, when you wake up in the morning, you need the journal by your bedside so there's no interruption between the idea of going to the journal to write, and you want to go to the journal and write something even if you didn't have a dream memory. You go to the journal, even if it's just to say, I don't remember anything from last night's dreams, wait a moment, see if there's a snippet or something, and then move on.

This act is juicy. I've heard people say that in days or weeks, they start to remember way more dreams. Now you're in the room where the action is happening and you're actively in the dream memory on a regular basis, which means you're going to be more likely to have one of those mystic dreams that we have been talking about, you know, and then when dreams come that feel like they're in a singular setting and they might reflect something in your life, write it down and look for it. You know,

It's kind of like developing intuition anywhere would be to write down a thought or a feeling or a knowing that you have to clock and track it later to see if it was in fact an intuitive hit or just a fantasy. So it's similar in the dream state, being in the room with lots of dreams and then start feeling into what your dream style is.

So that you easily know when you're having a dream that's not one of those chaotic, you know, community dreams. That's been the most helpful to me in you explaining that. So thank you, too. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay. So then the next question I have is, how do you see the role of psychic dreaming evolving in today's world where so many people are seeking deeper meaning?

Well, I think when the outside world is in chaos, we have to turn within for our comfort. And as an astrologer, the point that represents our collective destiny has moved into the sign of Pisces in January. Pisces is the sign that rules spiritual connection, sleep and dreaming.

So I like the fact that the world has fallen apart. Well, I don't like the fact that the world's falling apart, but I like the fact that the world's falling apart at a moment when it makes more sense than ever to put some kind of spiritual practice in front of you so that you're not responding to the chaos and the uncertainty with fear.

So that if that's the case with just generally amplifying your spiritual connection, dreaming is where we do that organically, no matter who we are. So that if you might not be, you know,

respond to like doing weird toning, you know, like the angelic, roaming, you know, woo-woo, blah, blah, blah. You can just lean into your dream world and know that you are, by doing so, connecting to the higher-powered source of you in your dream state.

So that when you wake up and have to face the world on its own terms, you're more prepared to do that because whether you're aware of it or not, you're more resilient and ready because you're developing a relationship with self.

that is stronger because it's self-empowered by the bigger energies that surround us and move us. And when we're connected to that energy, we can co-create with it more powerfully. Love it. And we all have to sleep. We all have to sleep sometime. So I might as well use it as a tool. All right. And then before we get to how everyone can reach you and connect with you, final thing is what is sleep hygiene and can you share some tips for it? Yes.

Sleep hygiene is just a term that represents taking the idea of preparing for sleep and calling it important, right? Most of us would naturally just be like, get me to bed, whatever your style is. And you pull off your clothes, brush your teeth, you climb into bed and you hope for the best. Sleep hygiene says I'm preparing for one of the most important aspects of my daily living.

That I treat sleep as a ritual and my prayer before sleep includes something like, and let me experience the sweet death of sleep.

Because I do believe that every time we go to sleep, we are practicing what it is to die. And every time we wake up, we're practicing what it is to reawaken in a manner that can also show up in other ways in our waking life. And the better ready we are for our ultimate death, the more graceful the whole thing is.

And so treating sleep as if it has got more importance, just even thinking about it that way, would be sleep hygiene. Doing things that keep...

light out of your bedroom and making sure that your router isn't there and that your cell phone isn't next to your bed but in the other room is sleep hygiene. Creating grooming connections to your sleep can also be sleep hygiene. If you sort of say, okay, now the day is done, the phone is off, I'm not interacting with others, and I go into my bathroom or bedroom and the act of disrobing and brushing teeth becomes normal.

a ritual of self-care so that you're thinking about preparing for bed and not, you know, still practicing that conversation you're going to have the next day with Marcy in the office while you're brushing your teeth, right? That's sleep hygiene. And so that if you have, you know, tension in your body, stretching by the side of your bed is sleep hygiene, right? Like I could go on and on and on and on, but just grabbing little ideas, it's,

Anything that takes the act of going to sleep and raising up the sense of stakes for it, which is like practicing the muscle of respecting your life and your body and increasing self-care and maybe increasing

creating the possibility of even richer, deeper dream experiences because you entered the dream experience through a sacred portal instead of a random and passive one. Yes, I love all that. One of the things that I saw recently, and my guides angels are reminding me of this, I haven't done this before and I'm going to start to work it into my sleep hygiene and routine, is when you're making your bed, like you're actually changing all your sheets, you do all this stuff, either sage or use essential oils

and do that with your bed. And then there's also like abundance and other kind of health satchels that you can put underneath. You can do all that kind of stuff. You really want to take it to the next level. Mugwort is an herb that is associated with increased dreaming that you can take as a tea, but I have sprinkled mugwort on my bed underneath my sheets. I haven't done that in a while, but I have done it. I make my bed every morning as a function of my spiritual practice. I believe that my home should be in readiness.

readiness to receive, even though I don't receive anybody because nobody comes over, really. But my home is in readiness and I want that experience for myself when I walk into my bedroom at night. So making your bed in the morning

can be part of sleep hygiene because by making the bed in the morning, you're sort of ending the ritual and closing the sacred space. And then with a made bed, you enter your bedroom at night and the consciousness, you might not even be aware of it, but your unconscious is responding to the altar that your bed is from a...

that it is ready for you. It wants to be opened and for you to climb in. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for sharing that. And so how can people find Psychic Dreamer and connect with you further? MichaelLennox.com is my website, and that's certainly the first central hub for

get on my newsletter by signing up at the bottom of the site for all of my announcements and astrological sort of information. My books are available anywhere books are sold, but you certainly can find it, you know, uh,

probably only on Amazon from a link from my bio, but it's available everywhere. But yeah, I do lots of stuff more in the world of astrology than dreams. I do see people privately. Yeah. You offer 45 minutes. Yeah. It takes a month to get on my schedule. And those are astrology readings, but the

People who know that I do dreams will often bring a dream into an astrology session. And I, listen, for those 45 minutes, you're paying for my time, not my gift. So,

We can talk about recipes for lentils because I want to make some yummy lentils soon. But we could do all dreams or astrology or any of those. Yeah, absolutely. And I follow Dr. Lennox on Instagram. I'll include all this information in the show notes so you can find all of that. And maybe we'll have you back another time if you're interested to talk about astrology. Well, thank you so much for being on. And thank you also for what you do for the world. We need more of us out there. Well, it's a real pleasure. Thank you.

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