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I think it is very much upending the stereotypes that we often put on women who choose not to have children. I know a little bit about that from personal experience. Indeed. But this novel certainly takes us on a journey of looking into
in the face any of that stereotyping because Rowan is so much of a complex character.
Hello and welcome to our first Book Club episode of 2025. We had such a wonderful response from all of you out there listening when we introduced the Book Club last year. I have loved reading your comments and book suggestions and I'm very excited that we're back for another season. And of course, I am thrilled to be joined by my two fabulous co-hosts for this season, Cathy Lett and Sarah Holland-Batt.
Sarah is with me today. So a big welcome, Sarah. What have you been up to over summer? Thanks, Julia. It's great to be back. I've done quite a lot of reading over the summer. So I caught up with all of the fun books that I've been in my bedside table all year. So I read the Booker Prize winner, Orbital by Samantha Harvey. Really loved Fiona McFarlane's Serial Killer, Book of Short Stories, Highway 13.
did a lot of reading and then also most recently had a trip to Norfolk Island during which I read the book that we're about to talk about today and there were very strange echoes reading that book on a little isolated island covered in sheer waters but it was fascinating beautiful trip so I'm feeling a little bit refreshed and ready to crack into another year of books how about you how was your summer?
I had a great summer and it was terrific to see you for dinner in Adelaide. I'm glad we had the opportunity to catch up. I'm back in London now, but I did get the benefit of some summer sunshine. I am getting a moderate smile out of the fact that you are describing as fun reading something about a serial killer. LAUGHTER
That's kind of cute. I did a lot of reading over summer too. Some fictions that I really enjoyed, some non-fiction from friends who have asked me to look at their books and to perhaps put a blurb on them and I always read a book before I do that. So I had the opportunity to read, for example, the new Cordelia Fine book and she's a wonderful feminist academic.
Right now I'm reading a book called The Corner That Held Them, which is about nuns starting in the late 1300s and moving its way forward. So it's quite gentle reading. I picked it up reading a columnist that I really rate, a guy called James Marriott,
in the Times of London. Obviously, the Times of London's a Murdoch publication, so you've got to take that into account. But I really rate him as a columnist and he recommended it. So I'm really enjoying that. Fantastic. It's like nuns are hot property at the moment between Charlotte Wood's Stoneyard devotional and this new book. There's like a raft of books about convent life and nuns. And well, that sounds like a delightful meditative summer read.
And the nun, there was actually a nun who played a very strong role in Conclave. I had read that book years ago, the Robert Harris, and I went on a bit of a Robert Harris jag over summer. I read...
Precipice, which is about Prime Minister Asquith and his indiscretions, particularly with secret intelligence, indiscretions with secret intelligence. And I read Act of Oblivion, which was about the hunt for those who had signed the warrant that led to the death of the
king in the United Kingdom. So, you know, his historical fiction, well-researched way of doing things. But I did watch Conclave, the movie. I'm always a little bit, you know, when you've read the book, should you watch the film? Because you can get really disappointed. I thought it was, you know, cinematography wise, amazing, but not as good as the book.
It's very hard for film to live up to literature, I think. But I mean, of course, a writer would say that. But I mean, so much of what you supply is in your imagination when you read a novel, isn't it? And then somehow when you see it, it's different than you imagined or not quite the same. You just realise the sweep of what you're able to achieve in a novel. It's not, you can't quite do all of that in a three hour film, can you? Yeah.
No, you can't. Though I would recommend the acting and I'm sure they're all going to win lots of awards. Lots of awards, yeah. Which they well and truly deserve.
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That's stance.com slash program. We're here today to talk about our first book of the year, Wild Dark Shore, by an Aussie author, a woman, Charlotte McConaughey, and it is her third book.
I've read her other two, Migration and Once There Were Wolves. And like this book, her other two books have an environmental theme. Nature has presence and agency in all of her books. Migration is really based on a
near future in which climate change has taken such a hold that the migration of birds around the planet is being disrupted and it's feared that this will be the last great migration. Once There Were Wolves is based on
the reintroduction of wolves back into Scotland. They used to be there, hunted to extinction, and this is all based on an effort to reintroduce them, but a story is told against that backdrop.
and Wild Dark Shore is told against the backdrop of an isolated island near Antarctica called Shearwater. Now out of the three books of hers I've read I enjoyed all of them and I'd recommend reading them to a friend but I loved this one and I think it is absolutely her best book and
And I think the difference is not the way that she weaves a plot and the environment together, but the propulsion in this plot. You're really in there right till the last page going to yourself, oh my God, what's going to happen? What's going to happen? What's going to happen? Is that how you found it?
Oh, yeah, I ripped through this. And I think she handles pacing and just the weaving of so many different mysteries. You know, as you read this novel, there's not just one thing you're trying to find out. There's sort of seven at once. And then when you solve one thing, another thing, you know, crops up that you have to work out what the story is with that. So I think it's like incredibly skillfully structured, the way she sort of
handles all those different mysteries and moves us towards resolving them. It's got the sort of plotting that you expect in a crime novel, really, you know, where you've sort of got that sense of urgency of these mysteries that are going to be resolved. Yeah, I tore through this. It was a very, very quick read. Yeah, terrific read. Now, our task is to try and talk about this book without engaging in mammoth plot spoilers as it is.
It's going to be quite hard to do because there are mysteries within mysteries in this book, and you're right, but I don't want... You know, you solve one and then it gives you a clue towards another, but I really don't want to ruin it for people, so let's see how we can...
best do that. I think the starting point is to go to the characters. So a central character is Rowan, a woman who literally washes up on the shores of this deserted island. The book actually starts with this gripping line. That chapter is headed Rowan. And the first line of the book is, I hated my mother for most of my life.
but it is her face I see as I drown. It's a very good opening line. And then the book unfurls chapter by chapter and each chapter is in the voice of a character. So we hear continuously from Rowan, we hear from Dominic, who is the father of the family that is on Shearwater Island.
and their task is to pack up a seed vault that has been housed there but can no longer be housed there because the island is becoming destroyed basically by climate change and extreme weather events. And the aim of the seed vault has been to put aside and store safely seeds that can help humanity grow food in a climate change apocalyptic future.
There is the daughter, Fen, who has taken to living not in the lighthouse where the rest of the family lives, but on the shoreline with the seals. And she's almost integrated herself into the seal colony and she helps as the seals have their young and she fears that the young are not going to survive because of the impacts of climate change and the weather's wildness.
There is Raph, a son who clearly is dealing with emotional distress and he takes that distress out largely by going rounds with a boxing punching bag and his father knowing that he's got that anger within him has tried to find an outlet that's safer. And there's Orly, a child and his chapters, the youngest son, his chapters are
really about seeds. He has become completely entranced with seeds and plants and how they journey around the world. So he's often telling us beautiful stories about how seeds move from one corner of the world from South America and then journey on the winds for thousands of kilometres before they put their roots down. So he talks about
the seeds as if they have agency in selecting the place where they're going to settle and grow and reproduce. How did you find the structuring that character by character chapter approach?
Yeah, I mean, I think it's part of what gives it that propulsive drive that we're toggling between these perspectives. And we have Rowan, this sort of woman who's arrived quite mysteriously on the island, who's not related to the other characters and her voice.
And then we have the father's voice. And those two characters are told in the first person. Then we have the two kind of intermediate children, Fen and Raph, who are kind of young adults, really. And their stories are told in the third person. And then, like you say, Orly, the little child, when I was reading his chapters, they're quite short. And they're kind of anyone who's ever been bailed up by a child who's just read a book on dinosaurs knows the kind of the premise of that. You know, it's like...
when a kid just wants to download all the information that they've learned about something to you and you've just got to sort of sit and listen. And those little chapters, they reminded me a bit of, they were almost like fables, you know, the sort of way that he was describing the journey of these seeds and also the sort of
coping mechanisms that the seeds had developed in difficult environments, in harsh environments, things like banksia and how they regenerate after a fire. So all these almost like a little sort of fact machine, sort of sharing these little fables about how a seed moves and how it grows and how it survives. And I thought that was, without giving away any plot spoilers, I thought the choices were quite...
quite clever that we have real intimacy with the two adult protagonists who are each working through their own griefs and losses and worries about the future in various ways. And then we have these children who are living in the wake of a major grief and each have their own additional griefs kind of compounding that, feeling a little bit more sort of distant, seeing them from a little distance
So I thought it was a wonderful kind of multifaceted way of moving through the perspectives that comprise the story. How did you find the sort of rotating perspectives? Yeah, I really liked it. I thought she laid it incredibly well. I would endorse everything that you've said. When you first pick up a book and you see the chapter headings like that, I've certainly read books where that didn't work, where you felt...
almost like there were several short stories that had just been put together. You know, you read a snippet of one short story, then another, then another, and then you go back to the first short story. So the characters don't end up weaving together as well as they do in this book. I mean, this is a very coherent whole and the way in which we hear from the characters doesn't...
pull that apart or loosen it in any way, if anything. It adds to it and it helps layer the mysteries that are at the heart of this because some characters are in possession of bits of information that they are lying about to other characters. So to try and just tease through some of that there,
There are levels of heartache and distress in the characters. Dominic has lost his wife and he is still in intense grief over that. His wife Claire had cancer. She chose not to have treatment when she was pregnant with Orly, whose voice we hear and love of seeds,
we come to understand. And during the birth, Dominic was forced to make a devastating choice about whether to save his much-loved wife or whether to save Orly. So there is all of that heartache. And then this is, I think, the only plot spoiler we should give, but we really can't describe the book without giving it.
Rowan originally, when she washes up on the island having almost drowned, tells a story that she was kind of just on a boat and they were just passing by. But the truth comes out that she is actually searching for her husband Hank.
who was one of the scientists who was looking after the seed vault. Now, those scientists have been already taken off the island and the final, final pack-up is being left to Dominic and his family. But clearly, Hank has not returned to her and she has come to the island to try and work out what's going on.
And so we have that heartache and then that start of a mystery. Where is Hank? And as these characters move around each other and move around the island and get about the task of trying to pack up this seed vault during extreme weather,
There is eeriness all around. Nature is providing an eerie environment. And at one point, a grave is found and we need to know. And the mystery requires us to find out, is it the grave of Hank? And so there's lots of layers in it.
And I think a hallmark of Charlotte's work is nature is a character. You know, the extreme climate of sheer water is a character.
Rowan fell in love with Hank when she was developing a property in the Blue Mountains in Sydney. She wanted to rewild a bit of land. She wanted to reintroduce nature. She knew she was committed to that, but she didn't know how to do it. And he literally walked into her life with all the expertise about how to do it.
And then there's just this sense that there is something stained and ugly on the island, some spirit on the island that's not quite right because the island might be a scientific project now but
But before that, it was a place of extreme exploitation where people came and grabbed penguins in the thousands and boiled them alive for oil. And so there's this dialogue when Rowan is talking to Dominic and Orly has referred to all of this.
and Orly appears to be talking to people that no one else can see and Rowan says to Dominic, who does he talk to? And Dominic the father replies, he says the animals live in the wind, the ones that were killed. Dom shakes his head slowly. It scares me sometimes but it's not just Orly. We all feel it here. The blood spilled. Don't you think there should be a price to pay?
It's got these quite gothic elements as I'm listening to all of that. And I found myself thinking a lot about ghosts in this book. And we're not giving away a spoiler to say Dominic is widowed. He's lost his wife. And we learn that very, very quickly in the novel. And he finds himself talking to her.
It's sort of unclear whether this is a healthy coping strategy or kind of an unhealthy or worrisome hallucination or somewhere in between. We've got Orly who believes he can speak to the spirits of the animals who've been slaughtered there. We've got this really brutal history of sealing and of killing the penguins, you know, this kind of mass deterioration
denuding of the animal species that were living there and there's sort of remnants of that that are a form of haunting there's these barrels that are on a beach that used to be used for boiling penguins and I found myself when I read this just so shocked by that I hadn't
hadn't heard of boiling penguins for oil before I'm very familiar with whaling and I did a little bit of reading Shearwater is sort of loosely based on Macquarie Island which is an Australian territory and apparently there are those barrels still on the beach that is a sort of an historic detail and so all the characters they're haunted by their human losses but they're also sort of
I don't know if I can put it this way in a kind of climate grief and in a grief for the animals around them as well. There's sort of, there's personal mourning and somehow it gets quite intermingled with connection for creatures and a kind of mourning for them. So,
Yeah, but it is in many ways sort of quite gothic. It's got all the elements that you'd think of when you think of sort of 18th century gothic kind of novels, except instead of a castle, you know, we're on an island, but it's still isolated, haunted, and...
Some of the characters are seeing things or hearing things that kind of aren't there. The other thing I found myself thinking about quite a lot when I was reading this was Agatha Christie. And I was thinking particularly of that great work of hers, And Then There Were None, which is set on a little island off the coast of Devon. And...
all these people are invited to stay there and then one by one, everyone in the island starts dying like flies. And this novel, it's sort of a companion to that in that it has a similar kind of tension about what are these disappearances, human and animal, who's causing them and who's kind of responsible. And I think
Yeah, I mean, there's humans, actual characters in the novel who are responsible for some of the losses. But then there's also humanity is a kind of antagonist in the novel as well, you know, with the sort of losses of species and the terrible treatment of creatures. So it's kind of no wonder that the characters are a bit haunted and are sort of seeing things, I think.
No wonder at all. And I think you've put that beautifully. I hadn't thought of the analogy to, and then there were none, which of course, you know, is a remote island, you know, the classic kind of locked room mystery, except it's a locked island. And if people have read, I'm sure everybody's read a bit of Agatha Christie at some point in their life. There is a Japanese book that
that takes exactly the same theme. It's called 'Dekagon'. It's a Japanese author writing about Japanese students who love Agatha Christie so much they formed this murder mystery club and they take the names of various Agatha Christie characters. It's worth a little read, a good beach read I think.
A theme across the book too, which is different to what we've talked about so far, is motherhood, love, what would you do for a child? And that centres, of course, on motherhood.
Dominic's loss of Claire you know he loves Orly his youngest son Orly wouldn't be in the world if he had made a different choice but the grief is there and the grief is sharp and
And we learn as the book unfolds that a big and shattering issue between Rowan and Hank has been whether or not to have a child. He has very much wanted a child, but it was not her vision of what she wanted to do with her life.
And part of that is related to her sense of consciousness about the environment and climate change and where humanity is heading to. And she says at one point in the first person in one of her chapters, I think my husband loved me as a vessel, not consciously. I don't think so little of him that I believe he could be conscious of this.
but somewhere deep within, a buried truth in the darkness. He never took the time to discover my body. He never explored it for what it could offer aside from the obvious. He never found in me, in my essence, a purpose other than to carry children. And when I admitted I couldn't do this for him, he turned away from me.
How did you find this theme around motherhood, which ultimately drives so much of the final scenes and the final plot?
Well, I think that's, you know, it's a common, I think, discussion among couples these days, you know, is the future hopeless? Is it contributing to the net sum of misery on the world to add more human beings to an overpopulated planet? And the issue with...
trying to have that argument is also that it's an emotional thing wanting to have children and so one can be very environmentally conscious one can care enormously about you know the future of the planet while also not wanting to to lose out on that you know important human experience of having children and i thought the novel handled that and weighed that really beautifully you know you have
Rowan, our female protagonist, who basically says, there's a little quote that I had written down about this. She said, the single greatest choice we can make to reduce our carbon footprint is to not have a child. Bringing children into this apocalypse is selfish and unethical. And so she's obviously an eco-pessimist. You know, she thinks we're not going to solve these issues in time and all we can do is try and mitigate the damage. And her partner, Hank, says,
is more of a technological optimist. You know, when they meet and he trespasses on her property, he's there because he's looking at genetically engineering some eucalypts to make them more resistant and to sort of repopulate them. And so clearly he's someone who believes that science in the end will resolve these issues of overpopulation and climate change. And so you have...
a complexity of views, I think, that the novel presents. But I was also really interested, in addition to human motherhood, to the representation of animal motherhood. And we have Fen down on the beach with her seals and the mother seals, you know, encouraging their pups to swim for the first time during a storm. We have a mother humpback whale and her calf,
that you know get into a bit of peril on the island and we also have a very very beautiful kind of anecdote at the towards the end of the novel and it's not giving a spoiler away just about wombat behavior during bushfires which I was just astonished to hear that during bushfires wombats will welcome not only their own babies but other species kangaroos birds into their burrows and block
the burrows with their very hard behinds which I think have a very kind of thick layer of bone and sometimes the wombat that's blocking the hole will die but the other creatures inside may survive and so you have these beautiful renderings I think of
the lengths that human creatures and animal creatures will go to protect their children, to protect the young and the young of others. And I found myself thinking about this with Rowan as a character because she doesn't have children, but nonetheless, she becomes a surrogate mother in certain ways to the salt children. Did you think that as you were reading that she sort of in the end becomes a kind of maternal figure?
She does, definitely. And I think it is very much upending the stereotypes that we often put on women who choose not to have children. I know a little bit about that from personal experience. Just a tad. Indeed.
Indeed. And the biggest stereotype we obviously fit on women who choose not to have children is that it's about their careers, their go-getters, their less emotional, more clinical and make that choice in favour of their career. Now, I think that stereotype has always been a
a very cartoon character simplification of a set of very different issues and the complexity of choices and human behaviour. So like all sexist stereotypes, it's a bit dumb when you hold it up to the light. But this novel certainly takes us on a journey of looking into
in the face any of that stereotyping because Rowan is so much of a complex character. You know, her eco-pessimism driving so much of her decision making. You may share that, you may not share that, but when you hear it in her own voice, you've got to respect it.
but her choice about not having children herself doesn't mean that she doesn't have a lot of love inside her and thrown into these extraordinary circumstances with this isolated family, loss, weird behaviours, mystery, an eeriness in the environment. She is the one because Dominic's grieving is holding him back and
from doing a lot of it. She is the one who steps in to try and help the children find the next stage of their life. And of course, the children are very worried about what is going to happen next. As hard as it is to live in this place, they are truly torn about what
whether they want to leave the island and be evacuated when they've finished packing up the seed bank. You know, they run wild. They do what they want to do. And to imagine them being taken from this environment where they can, you know, live with seals if they want to, to a kind of quarter-acre block or an apartment, you know,
It's sort of an unimaginable transition and yet they're having to confront that because that is what is being planned for them.
Yeah, I mean, Fen, the younger girl, is, I mean, feral is kind of the word that springs to mind in an affectionate way. She's gone a bit feral. She sort of almost identifies more with the seals than with the human beings and kind of prefers their company. And you can understand, without giving any spoilers away...
given her experience, why she might feel that way. The children really have been subjected to quite an isolating, unusual childhood on this island. They've been there. I think it's
seven years is that I think I'm remembering that correctly and towards the end after the scientists have left which is the point at which we begin the novel they're the only human beings on the island so they're massively outnumbered by creatures. You've got to give it to Charlotte that she does so much research to
to weave these stories against environmental truth. And I always enjoy reading at the end of the novel the acknowledgements that people do. And when I read her acknowledgement, she's got in it this...
Thank you to the team at Heritage Expeditions. The trip you took my family on to Macquarie Island was life-changing. Your expertise, your passion and your willingness to cater to the mad people who brought a baby on a remote expedition halfway to Antarctica will never be forgotten.
Thank you to all the brave researchers on Macquarie Island who do such important conservation work and who have brought Macquarie back from the brink of devastation. So, you know, we've got the fictional island Shearwater loosely based on the real island Macquarie where we do have Australian researchers and a novelist turns up with her family, including a baby. A baby.
It's fantastic. It's fantastic. And she's also clearly, I think, drawing on...
the real-life counterpart of this seed vault, which is not in the southern hemisphere but in the northern hemisphere in Norway. And I found myself so interested about the real-life echoes. So we've got the real-life echo of Macquarie Island with its history and scientists and scientific base, but we've also got this Farlbard global seed vault in Norway, which I believe this is based on, which also had its own scare effect
with the permafrost melting much more than expected, I think, in around 2016. And there was concern that, you know, were the seeds going to be safe in this vault? And I went down a real, real rabbit hole with seed vaults myself after reading this, Julia. It's a little bit like when we were reading the Elif Shafak and I went on a massive Gilgamesh jag. I went really, really deep on seed vaults and I...
And I was reading a little bit about the world's first seed vault, which was established in the 1920s in Leningrad. And then in World War II, during the siege of Leningrad, the population of Leningrad was completely starving. The siege went on for decades.
almost 900 days, something like that. And so people were absolutely desperate. People were eating toothpaste powder and stuff like this. And the scientists at that seed vault, because it was the only facility of the nature in the world, and it was seen as this sort of safeguard against...
global famine, you know, destruction of crops and stuff, did not use a single seed all the way through the siege of Leningrad. The scientists did not grow a single plant from that store and many of the scientists died to protect the seeds. And you sort of, the novel opens up so many questions about how
What do we save? Do we save the things that benefit human beings or do we save the plants that survive best, that have coping strategies? Do we save plants that are more broadly beneficial for all life on earth, not human life? And it's not an easy question and
Looking at that, the actual vault, the one that's in Norway, most of the sort of things that are banked with it are food crops. You know, when we think of the seeds that we must save, we think first and foremost about humanity. But one of the things I really liked about the novel and the way she weaves in the research about seeds and, you know, genetic diversity, biodiversity, is it really kind of, to me, poses the question of,
Is that a good assumption? I don't know. Did you go deep on seed vaults or am I alone on that one? You probably know a bit about them yourself already. I love and admire the way you go on your jags. I've got an image in my mind of you reading lessons in chemistry a few years ago and then enrolling for a chemistry course. LAUGHTER
That's the way my mind works. I wouldn't say I know a lot about this, but my niece, Jenna, is an agricultural scientist. So we do have, you know, in the family conversation, things about seeds and plant diseases and things like that. She has a PhD in agricultural science and I've
often told people that my father to his dying day when asked to talk about our family would say something like julia's done very well for herself but jenna she's the smart one um
He very much admired that kind of academic learning and she definitely is a very smart woman. And I haven't talked to her yet about the ethical questions coming out of the book, but I will. But you are driven, I think, emotionally as you read the book to the conclusion that the
Our privileging of our own species got us into this mess. And so how can it be right, as we develop the survival strategies, to keep privileging our species rather than truly thinking about nature as an integrated whole and we all thrive together or none of us thrive at all? And I just want to reinforce, I mean, the book...
doesn't raise any of these things in a, you know, chunky, technical, hard to read set of paragraphs. Like it's beautifully lightly done, uh,
but impactfully done. I mean, and that is one of the things that I think is the hallmark of Charlotte's writing. I think it's, you know, been a hallmark across The Last Migration, across Once Were Wolves, across this book. But the reason I think this book stands out amongst the three is just how compelling the plot is.
Yeah, she really balances all of that so delicately. And it's not really a natural fit, you know, these elements, this idea of a cli-fi novel about, you know, climate change and seed faults and what happens when there are rising seas and this kind of set of mysteries that are almost kind of Agatha Christie-ish. There's elements of detective kind of fiction in there and the changing of perspectives. And then there's also kind of...
without giving away any spoilers, it is on the cover, there is a kind of romance element to the novel as well. So generically, it really taps into a lot of different things and weaves them together, I think, very, very skillfully. You don't feel like these are all bolted on
to a kind of Frankenstein novel, somehow she makes these things that are not really natural bedfellows kind of meld together into something that's very, very propulsive. I absolutely blew through this. You just sort of start it and then you sort of think, oh, I'll just read another chapter and another chapter and then you've sat there for five hours. It's very, very immersive, which is a real credit to her sense of
how to pace these things and how to weave the science and the sort of environmental concerns into the perspectives of the characters rather than, as you say, giving us a big chunk of exposition, you know, sort of dumped in there. It's very skilful.
I didn't know that. Instead of sci-fi, we're doing cli-fi. Who would like this book, do you think? I honestly find it hard to imagine anybody who wouldn't like this book. I mean, I really loved it. I loved it too, and I think, honestly, the...
Anyone who likes any of those genres that we've just mentioned, anyone who's interested in the subject, I could see people coming at this from different angles and valuing. There'd be people who value, you know, really interested in the environmental elements of it or interested in Macquarie Island and how that's fictionalised to people who enjoy a sort of a good stormy kind of romance story.
mystery to people who like crime. It's sort of, it touches over everything and it's just very, very carefully, thoughtfully sort of propelled by her storytelling.
I think it would be the perfect book club book because, you know, you get into those book club discussions of, no, I don't like those kind of books. No, I don't like those kind of books. And this one, everyone will like. Yeah. Something in it for everyone. Sarah, thanks so much for joining me for this discussion. It's been terrific as always. And we've got many more books to talk about during this season of the podcast.
Please, as you're listening, head to our Instagram page at apodcastofonesone and let us know what you thought of Wild Dark Shore. Do read it. You will like it. And please also give us any book suggestions that you have, anything that you think we should be reading and talking about. We're all ears for that. Bye for now. And, Sarah, once again, huge thanks. Thanks, Julia. See you next time. Bye.
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The team at A Podcast of One's Own acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respect to their elders, past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples listening today. Thanks for listening, and we hope you'll join us next time. ACAS powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. ACAS.
Hey guys, welcome to Giggly Squad. A place where we make fun of everything, but most importantly, ourselves. I'm Paige DeSorbo. I'm Hannah Berner. Welcome to the squad. Giggly Squad started on Summer House when we were giggling during an inappropriate time. But of course, we can't be managed. So we decided to start this podcast to continue giggling. We will make fun of pop culture news. S***.
We're watching fashion trends, pep talks where we give advice, mental health moments, and games and guests. Listen to Giggly Squad on Acast or wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.