A $1.39M Wedding Venue Business — Too Good to Pass Up?
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Hello everyone and welcome back to Acquisitions Anonymous. This is the internet's number one podcast on buying, selling, and operating small businesses. Today we have our first ever Facebook deal. So Mills went sleuthing around on Facebook and found a businesses for sale by owner group on Facebook.

and found a wedding venue business for sale by owner. If you're with us on YouTube, you will just love the screen share on this one. You can see it looks like your grandma posted that her business was for sale and like no punctuation, but a whole bunch of detail actually. So we talk about the differences or we talk about kind of the unique characteristics of businesses that depend on their

real estate and also revenue optimization when you can only sell events 52 days a year because people usually get married on Saturdays and not usually in the winter. So it's even less than that. So this was a fun episode. We were also joined by Rand Larson from ScalePath, which is a community of small business owners to help us review this one. So without further ado, I hope you enjoyed this episode of Acquisitions Anonymous.

Hey everyone, it's Bill. And I want to tell you about maybe the most exciting sponsor we've had in a long time on the pod. It's called Capital Pad. And it is the thing that I wish existed when I started my journey of operating and investing in small businesses. So Capital Pad is a marketplace for acquisition entrepreneurs. That is people who want to buy a business and need capital to list their deals and solicit capital from other people who want to invest in

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So if this sounds like something that's appealing to you, if you want to buy a small business and need capital, or if you want to invest in small businesses, go check out CapitalPad.com and tell them that Acquisitions Anonymous sent you. All right. Welcome back to Acquisitions Anonymous. We've got a fun guest today. We've got Rand Larson from ScalePath. Nice to have you, man.

Thanks, Bill. Thanks, Mills. Thanks for having me, guys. So are you coming to us live from a van down by the river or are you settled back into real person life now? No, no, we're settled back in. I came to Mills live from a van at his roofing company, so not quite down by a river, but I get those jokes often.

Every single time I go to and meet anywhere, anyone new in a city. So I'm frankly, I love them. I love those memes. Well, for the people that don't know what I'm talking about, can you tell them why I'm making fun of you for being in a van down by the river? Yeah, this is an old SNL skit from Chris Farley. And I can't, if I tried to explain the joke, it wouldn't make any sense and I would look like an idiot. So just look up

Chris Farley, Van Down by the River, or just Van Down by the River. And you will see exactly what I'm talking about. It's hilarious. And you just did a seven-month road trip.

Yeah. Yeah. Technically not. I bought the van in July and from there just started driving around. I probably spent three weeks at home at the start, but then between September and April, I drove from Cleveland, Ohio up to Madison, Wisconsin, zigzag down the middle of the country, down to Austin, straight across to Florida and spent the winter in Florida. And then

up through South Carolina, your territory, and then finally back to Cleveland. Doing small business meetups all along the way, right? Yeah. Yeah. Small business meetups. I think 20, 25 of them during that road trip. We've also done another 15 or 20 before that. So yeah, man, just spreading the gospel, owning a small business.

Buy one, hopefully don't overpay and spreading laughter and cheer through small business owners across the country. That's awesome. I love that you did that. You were just like, screw it. I'm going on the road. Bought a van and went and see everybody. Like the whole community ran, came through your town and had an event. It was sweet.

Yeah. Yeah. It was a ton of fun. And so, but you're not down by the river anymore. You're settled in and you just bought a business, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's right. I bought Michael Girdley's business scale path. So I-

I don't know. I don't know. No one knows him. He definitely doesn't have several hundred thousand followers. Not that I know. So I started our own peer group community while I worked with John Wilson. I started the peer groups for free. A buddy was getting close to bankruptcy and he was feeling incredibly lonely at the time. So I built him a peer group of other people buying businesses, started another one for free, ran those for free for a while, just as a thing I was doing while I was working with John.

And then eventually took building these things seriously around October 2023. And then just recently, ScalePath was coming up for sale. They were looking for someone to steward the business for the next generation. And I thought,

There's a really ton of good win-wins there. We were good at peer groups. They were good at the online community side. They were really, really great at marketing. We had a pretty good product in a ton of ways, but they had a bunch of products we did not have. We were better at peer groups, which they had one of. So there's a ton of win-wins that happened with the deal. It was a really, really good, I mean, it fit like a glove. That's awesome. So now you see a

ton of small business owners in scale path, which is why we want to have you on to talk about small businesses. So I have no idea the deal that Mills is going to show us cold today. Let's do on a tear lately of kind of weird, quirky,

off the wall type deals. But I mentioned something, I think on the last episode we recorded about, have you ever, I think I was asking Chelsea, has she ever seen a deal come from Craigslist?

And she was like, no, I can't say that I have, I don't have a Craigslist deal today. I searched high and low. And the best thing I got was a $39,000 highly successful painting contractor in Charlotte. But that was the biggest one I could find. But I did in my perusing, I did find something on Facebook. So this is some like US business for sale by owner Facebook group.

which I think anybody who has done a search has probably, you know, gone down plenty of these, like just random, you know, rabbit holes. But this one kind of stood out to me for a few different reasons. It's in South Carolina. There's no way I'm going to read this whole description because while there is punctuation, it just reads like one giant sentence, but this is a opportunity of a lifetime. Jamie tells us seller financing available.

30-acre farm and profitable wedding and event venue and horse boarding business in upstate South Carolina. They are willing to sell 22 acres of the farm and a house without the venue if interested, but it's a 3,400 square foot wedding venue and event venue and a lucrative horse boarding venture with much more potential. It's a four-bedroom, four-bath house.

And it's in upstate South Carolina. There's a whole kind of description here. I'm not going to read all this, but I'm going to just pull up a picture really quick that kind of helps paint for not listeners. You're missing out. If your viewers, this is a beautiful place. It's very picturesque, like rolling Hills. There are, let's see, there's some more pictures. It's like this cool metal barn. Everybody's wearing cowboy hats.

There's all these like really nice pictures, you know, of people getting married on this property. If you're into horses, this looks like very picturesque, but there's actually some detail here that they give. So,

They say they describe the house and the property and all these different things, all the upgrades. This kind of reads like a real estate listing, like, you know, four ton HVAC unit, septic tanks been maintained, like all this different stuff. But they say they're open to seller financing and.

But they have a balance of a current mortgage, which is Bill's favorite thing to key in on is, you know, pay me what the balance of my mortgage is. But they say they're asking $1.39 million for everything. They're accepting offers and willing to negotiate.

for a reasonable deal for both. There's $542,000 left on the balance of the mortgage. And they're saying that they would basically give you five to 10 years until interest rates come down to refinance.

but they want a cash out to be able to pay off the mortgage. Current mortgage is at 3.99%, monthly mortgage payment of $3,474 a month. Property taxes are only $3,400 for the entire year. And they're saying if you're a serious inquirer, they'll send you financial info on the business if you sign an NDA and have proof of cash down payment or financing proof. This is a For Sale by Owner Facebook page.

And there's this person, Jamie Lee Bowling, who posted it. Literally business for sale by owner, facebook.com slash business for sale by owner. Yes. It's like, it's like the perfect storm, you know, the stream of consciousness posts on Facebook. But it says like, I have seasoned recommendations that will increase revenue by 40% with a 24 to 35% gross profit, but you've got to spend 40 grand to upgrade it. Like blah, blah, blah. So like,

Okay. So this is a farm, right? Like this is a piece of property.

On which they've got a lot of hustles, right? They've got a wedding venue hustle and they've got a horse boarding hustle. I mean, who knows what other sort of hustle, how many acres is it? Mills? It's like 30 something acres. It's 30, but they're selling 22. No, that's just, that's if you don't buy the venue. I think it's like, just if you buy the house and without the venue, it's 22 acres, but altogether it's like 30, I think it's like 30, 30 something acres.

And there's no numbers behind the revenue and profitability of the wedding venue. No. Okay. So somewhere that would be helpful if we knew that, but I have, what's, what's interesting. I actually looked at a couple of wedding venues at one point because it can be, you know, if you have a big chunk of land, you can live on some of it. You can run the venue on some of it and then turns the whole thing into a business. But yeah,

There's a lot of people that try... The first thing you got to know if you're ever going to buy a wedding venue or whatever, so a business like this that depends on its real estate, first thing you got to know is what is the real estate worth just on its own, right? So you need a realtor that specialize in this market to just tell you what this real estate is worth. And what I have seen a lot of times...

Is that what the seller does is they look at it and they go, what's my real estate worth? What if I frame this as a business? Like the value is higher, right? Like if the business is a business at three X cashflow or whatever, the value is higher. I'm going to sell it as a business. So you first, you got to understand like what you're dealing with from a real estate perspective. And that's gotta be,

that's probably what i'm offering just period unless you've got some this is a famous venue like there's a line out the door around the corner where you did a kardashian get married here like what are we talking about yeah like i mean this is defensibility on venue like there are lots of pretty places in the foothills of upstate south carolina western north carolina etc where you could have a pretty wedding venue and candidly like you could build one for

Not a ton of money if you already had the land. So I'm trying to separate out the business from the real estate here. And, you know, to me, the wedding, let's just talk about wedding venue business is a really fascinating business because I know tons of venues around here that are booked a year, 18 months, two years out.

And they're each kind of remarkable in their own way. But there's not any element of it where it's like, well, if you don't get married here, you can't get married. Right. It's not like if the plumber doesn't come to fix my toilet, then I can't use my house correctly. Like it is it's fairly discretionary. You can just choose different venues. But there is this subjective element where.

Because of supply and demand and because of perceived scarcity, most people only get married on Saturdays. It's a growing trend to maybe get married on a Friday or Sunday, but you only have 52 weekends a year to sell.

And so when you look at the businesses that do really well in the venue space, they get really good at revenue optimization. These folks have already figured out horse boarding because they've got the land and they probably are into horses anyways. But one of the things that I don't like about this that would be kind of contrary to like a this is a rural venue, contrary to like a downtown or suburban venue is.

is that it's really difficult to rent this out Monday through Friday. Nobody is coming there for like a corporate lunch or a small conference. Like they might do a little bit of that, but the bulk of this business is 52 Saturdays a year. You're on and probably 200 people show up and they drive onto your property and

And then they leave, but it's only a day and it's hit or miss. Yeah, this isn't a business you can just throw a co-working center on top of and suddenly have recurring revenue. This is, you have to get really, really good at building an entirely different business besides weddings for this to work. Or you got to get better at squeezing more juice out of the weddings. So like that is a huge thing. Like if you're just a venue, well, you know what? People are spending a lot of money.

Catering, like priests, favors, DJ. I mean, there's like table rentals, right? There's chair rentals. In the South, it's gotten really popular as a business in Charleston. All they do is go reclaim old church pews.

and set them up in fields for people. Like they're paying for the venue separately and they're like, yeah, we'll bring you, you know, 50 old church pews for people to sit in instead of chairs. Like there's all kinds of ways you can optimize revenue here. Like you said, catering, but a lot of times, even if they don't have a full commercial kitchen on site, they may have an affiliate agreement with a couple caterers that can, you know,

make the food offsite and bring it in. And they say, Hey, we're going to put you on our list of top three caterers and you're going to give us a kickback. Yeah. Well, that's the lightweight way to do it is just get a kickback from the caterers. But like eventually you become a full turnkey venue. Yeah. And the fact that they have a house, I will say, you know, if it's just an outdoor venue and like a barn, um,

then there's nowhere for the bride to get ready. There's nowhere for the wedding party to like all those kinds of things. The fact that they have the house and the barn and, you know, it seems like most of these wedding pictures are kind of outside there. You're charging separately for that. So there's ways to upcharge. I,

I know somebody pretty well who does this in the greater Columbia area that is kind of very similar to this. It's a horse property. They have a barn. They converted the horse barn into like a place people could get ready with a nice shower. And pretty quickly, like they were booked a year out. Now,

They kind of had to do some extra upgrades to their property, not for revenue optimization, but for just lifestyle optimization because they're 365 days a year and there's people there 50 days a year and they don't want them creeping all over their property and kind of bleeding the lines of like their, you know, little safe haven and their kind of quiet space.

I'm curious, if you're a searcher looking at this business, I always think like, how much of a pain is this going to be to run? Because you are the venue of the most important day in someone's entire life. You have to deal with what's it called? Like the nightmare mother-in-law, like people have entire jokes. Yeah, bridezilla. Yeah.

And I'm just curious, like how much as a venue is this, you know, you're just the venue, everything, everyone else is like a different contractor that you recommend. You take a big step back or if you get hands on, how much of this is going to be you managing 15 different businesses, catering business, rental business venue, like how much of this is just becomes a massive, you running 15 different companies in one small location. With very high stakes because the bribe will kill you if it doesn't go on perfectly. Yeah.

And so I used to own a business that catered to weddings, which was called Text My Guests. So this came out of, if you, Mills maybe knows the story, but when I got married in 2018, we got married in Charlotte, North Carolina at a wedding venue, not an outdoor venue, but like an urban venue. And I wanted to schedule a bunch of text messages like,

hey, the ceremony is starting, put away your phones. Or the first dance starts in five minutes, please take your seats. Or join us for the after party at wherever. And so I built a tool called textmyguest.com that was pre-scheduled text messages. So you could kind of

guide your whole crowd through the day. And then I also set it up so the guests could text back photos, which turned out to be the real differentiator so the bride could get a whole bunch of photos from people. So I set this up at my wedding and just let it rip. And all my guests loved it. And I turned it into a SaaS product. So we got to the point where we were doing a bunch of weddings and

But it would be... It was so weird because it was totally dead during the week. And then like the support tickets would go bananas on Friday and Saturday, right? And they would expect like five-minute turnaround because they're like...

The bride is like at her wedding and it's like my, you know, I got to figure this out or this didn't work. And it was very stressful. And that was one of the reasons I had my wife running the business. And so we had kids and she was like, I can't keep dealing with these ladies, you know, like they're too intense, you know? And it was like all at once, like on Saturday. So that's, there are businesses like this that will ruin your like restaurants or one of these like nights and weekends, like,

All your nights and weekends are consumed. So I have a rule against nights and weekends businesses. And while your wife has a rule against it, we, our family gets nights and weekends businesses. They can be great businesses. Like I'm sure wedding venue is great business. But like as a searcher, this is a venue like you probably got to be there.

or be darn close. And you got to know the caterers around town and you got to make sure it goes off without a hitch. And if you get good at that, you will develop a reputation for that and it will be good for business. But if you're not good at it, your business will evaporate

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So don't wait to make your business ownership dream a reality. Visit acquisitionlab.com today to learn more and schedule your free consultation. And when you do, be sure to tell them the Acquisitions Anonymous podcast sent you. The ceiling on this is low. I mean, I think best case scenario, we don't have any numbers here, but I'm thinking best case scenario, you're not doing more than a million dollars in revenue. I think you can get to two.

I know. Well, the upstate South Carolina thing throws me off. I know Nick Anderson. He's in Salt Lake City and their metro is huge. He's got, he's in Spanish Fork. They've got

I think three or four locations, one near Salt Lake City, another Provo. And his business is doing well. But I do wonder what the average revenue of one of these venues is. I wouldn't guess it's above two, but I thought it was going to be much larger than 1 million. A couple of data points. We rented a nice venue in a good part of Charlotte. And I think this was also in 2018. I think it was $7,000. But that came with chairs. That was like...

that was not food, that was not banned, that was not anything. That was just like the room and the chairs and the climate control and stuff, right? Like the tablecloths and like all that stuff. And that was seven grand. You know, there's a lot more you spend money on. So like- Yeah, but you only, you multiply that by 50, uh,

uh, 50 weekends. If you're doing that, you're making what? 350 grand. Yeah. So that's 350 grand. Like that's sort of the best. That's your core business. That's your core business. If you only rent the property now, maybe, I don't know, maybe this commands more. It's a farm. It's bigger. You can ride a horse, take a picture on a horse. If you're the bride, I don't know.

But like maybe not also because my seven grand is the urban data point. This is. Yeah, I think it's I think it's lower. I think it's probably lower, but there's some extra revenue that could be extracted. But again, the tradeoff is you're probably not doing corporate lunches on a Thursday for like a lunch and learn for two hours or something like that. And I was going to say the extra million dollars we're missing is not coming from horse boarding. I really doubt it. Yeah.

But like, so I like this, though, in terms of somebody took something, they made it virtually out of nothing. Right. And they other than the cost of the dirt and the upgrades, building the barn, renovating the house, all those things, they have really probably created the highest and best use for this project.

property and this asset. That is the question in real estate all the time is what is the highest and best use? There's not going to be an airport here, right? There's not going to be a, you know, 300 unit apartment complex. This is probably the highest and best use. And for the existing owners, they figured out ways to maximize the heck out of it and probably not just pay their mortgage, not just cover the cost of, you know, taking care of their own horses. Now they're generating revenue from taking care of other people's.

But this is a extension of a lifestyle and kind of a lifestyle business. Yeah, absolutely. This is also great if you want a land bank or something, or you think this land is in the path of progress in this town, or you've got another business in the town, or you own a catering company and you want to vertically integrate. I mean, there's a lot of reasons this can make sense. I

I don't know. This is like your pure searcher deal where you're just going to buy it. And as a purely financial investment, you've got to have zero fees in and around it, I think. Yeah. It's practically a startup. Yeah. I think the, the buyer build equation is probably upside down on this. You would want to, you would want to build a wedding venue into something else that you already own, that it was complimentary with, or already own something complimentary and buy into this wedding venue. Um,

I'd want to know what the land is worth before I went any farther at all and how truly unique it was. The thing that I like about this and what it highlights is, you know, one, this is Facebook for sale by owner. And this is a like a decent sized business. This is not the Craigslist $39,000 painting contractor.

But look at how much info they provide. You could probably, we didn't poke around, but you could probably, you know, find this property, figure out exactly where it is. You could look it up on the tax maps, like you could get all the data around the property, but look at how flexible they are, you know?

They're accepting offers. They have a stated asking price, but they're accepting offers. And then look at how flexible they've insinuated the structure could be, which is the one thing that I really like about for sale by owner. It's a double-edged sword and there's a lot of negatives that come with it, but they're basically like giving you a layup. If you wanted this deal and this was something that was like really exciting and attractive to you,

they're basically saying, we will float the existing mortgage for you for five to 10 years. We'll sell or finance another tranche of this. And then you just bring some pre-agreed upon amount of down payment. That doesn't happen on the open market for a million dollar EBITDA businesses. But

If this didn't have a low TAM, if this didn't have, you know, like a geographically constrained, you know, low ceiling on the revenue of the business and it was for sale by owner, you could take something, tie it all together, close on it, and then really scale potentially, you know, if the circumstances were different. I like how much it highlights that flexibility. Yes, I agree. I mean, it's.

I love it too when people start negotiating against themselves in the listing. Like, here's exactly what we're going to finance. Here's exactly the minimum amount of cash out we need. And then you just- Here's our dollar for dollar, how much our mortgage is a month. Yeah. Which is probably one rental. It's probably one weekend pays their mortgage. That's a good point. $3,400. And that's probably how they got started, right? They had this land or they bought this land and said, geez, we got to barely do it.

And it breaks even, which is sort of the problem, right? There's like no moat wedding venue at all, unless you've got a truly unique property. And that's what's hard to tell. You got a truly unique property or a truly unique reputation, like a Kardashian got married there or something, which is, I think, indicative of this whole industry. Because you look at wedding photographers, right?

they, you're kind of going, okay, I know somebody that use you, you come highly recommended. You don't have a ton of availability. There's a lot of perceived value in just what is the price point. If somebody is willing to do your wedding photography for 200 bucks, you kind of don't expect that much, but if they're going to charge $20,000,

you know what, you're not getting like references. You're just looking at their portfolio and going, it looks really good just because it looks really good. You're banking on the fact that they're going to get every shot perfect for your wedding, but there's not really a lot of transferable goodwill. Once that like,

husband, wife, couple, photographer, whatever, once they're done. And I've known tons of wedding photographers who do this and they're like, we just got tired of working Saturdays and nights and weekends on weddings and we wanted to do something else, but they made a great living in the meantime. And they just kind of churn a lot. All right. I think, I think we've beaten these, these boarded horses. Um, so, um,

What do you guys think? Thumbs up, thumbs down. Rand, what do you think? It's a thumbs up for the right person, but that person is pretty rare. The for sale by owner is interesting because it seems like you can, you know, you call it negotiating, but you can probably get some favorable terms. But for most people, I don't,

see this for most people being worthy of a startup. I think you already have to have a business where you know how to greatly improve wedding venues just like this, or you already run a business that you can plug in and fill in the other days of the week where the real estate is not being used. I think it's those couple people and they'll probably be able to get good terms because it's for sale by owner.

But for most people, I'm curious if you guys disagree, but I don't think that this is worth buying unless you want to get into the wedding venue business quickly. Agree. Even still, I mean, quickly, like you can tilt up one of these metal barns. Like I think having the right property is the key. And then you just get on Google and you can probably start turning up clients. You call the wedding planners in town and, you know,

Pretty soon you're there. There was this great business that I had some friends who worked at that was called My Big Fake Wedding.

And instead of doing like going around and doing like the bridal shows and all that kind of stuff, they would throw a fake wedding and they would have all these vendors come. They would have like the photographer. They would have the flower person. They would have the cake person and they would do like a mock wedding. And it was this huge referral generation source. And they would do like pop up events all over the country.

and just go and solicit vendors and generate revenue that way, and then farm it all out. And the kind of core of their business was that they weren't geographically constrained, but it's amazing the things you can do with like a little ingenuity, especially around Bill. One of the first episodes we did, I think like three and a half, four years ago, we talked about being adjacent to a large transaction as like a real force multiplier for pricing power being like,

If you wanted to rent chairs for a corporate event or you wanted to rent chairs for a wedding, everything with the wedding tagline is arbitrarily higher. And so there's something about this. It's thumbs down for me just because I don't want a nights and weekend business. It is in South Carolina, so that's intriguing. But it's thumbs down for me. But there's just some curiosity that just pulls at my...

you know, at the back of my head that goes, there's, there's gotta be something there. There's some way to extract value. And it really just gets my juices flowing. I'm curious. I'm curious what you guys would think about this. I just asked chat GPT. So we'll get the chat GPT report in just a second. But I,

I'm curious if weddings like, like large, big weddings, getting a big fancy venue, bringing a bunch of people. And I sort of think it's the modern day. Like it's the Instagrammable thing where that's where, um, a lot of people are like, they want a big wedding and they want a ton of pictures to show it off online. Um,

They want it to be like a real event. I'm not sure 20 years ago, whether this was very common or whether it's more common now. And I'm also curious if Gen Z is going to keep following the trend because it seems like they're doing a lot of things differently even than just millennials. They're like, hey, we don't have any money. We don't want to spend it. We don't care about social media as much. We want to go to the trades. I'm not sure how much this is really true. And I'm curious if it also means like, no, we're going to get eloped.

Screw wedding venues, screw spending 50 grand on wedding. Like we're going to take a vacation, get a look. You're like your immediate family, my immediate family. That's it. Something like that. I think, yeah, that it could, it could be kind of a, in a just secular decline in terms of the demand. I think in the South, you're probably a little bit insulated from that. It's a little bit more traditional, but yeah, like Gen Z is not drinking as much. Like there's a lot of kind of maybe headwinds for this, uh,

you know, long-term in terms of demand? I don't know. I think people are going to want to conspicuously consume and post about on Instagram for a while. Look at me. I mean, like Instagram has inflated crazy weddings, not deflated them. You know, I think this is status signaling at its purest. I don't think AI is going to make that go away. I'm not sure if I'm making this up, but at least this is what my parents told me is like, traditionally the father of

of the bride pays for the wedding. And then that means that they've got that baby boomer. I just sold my business, bought a house in Maui in 1972 money. And maybe that's what's funding all these weddings. It's not the Gen Zs that are getting married and paying for it. I think absolutely. Absolutely. Oh yeah.

Yeah. All right. That was fun, Rand. Thanks for joining us, man. Thanks for having me. Your knowledge and your experience to bear. Rand, will you just drop like 10 seconds about ScalePath? Because people have probably business owners that listen to this. Yeah. Yeah. It's joinscalepath.com. We're a community of small business owners. We've got over 50 members who've all acquired their businesses, lots of local service business owners, professional trades people in there. We build a

individual peer groups with around seven other members that will meet once a month for a couple hours. And we got online community, weekly expert calls, Michael Gridley's office hours. He's still involved. He's still a partner. So check it out. Apply at joinscalepath.com. All right.

Well, awesome. Thanks for being here, Rand. And thanks for listening to Acquisitions Anonymous. If you like this episodes, hop on our website at acquanon.com. We're pushing 400 episodes now, all indexed by industry. So if you're into wedding venues or construction companies or e-commerce businesses, we have covered it on the pod, acquanon.com. We'll see you over there.