753. BOTOX: The Truth, Toxicity, and How to Get a Holistic Glow
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Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Almost 30 Podcast. It's your girls. Welcome to the show. Welcome. I'm just getting set and sorted on camera. I just thought I'd switch it up. Dude, I got, I have for the first, this is an important thing that you guys tuned in for. For the first time in maybe 10 years, I have a haircut and I have like a cut with layers because I would just do like long, long haircuts.

blanket hair. And I touch it all the time. So it gets greasy within hours. Dude, my hair gets so greasy. It's crazy. Yeah. Probably more than... You have hair that can probably mask the grease for a little bit. Because it's dry, so it'll absorb it. But still, when your hair's dark, you know why? So when you get your hair blonde, it basically strips the pores. So it basically makes the hair more porous because it takes the color out.

And so when your hair is darker, it gets greasier because it actually has like the hair shafts are closed because they have color in them. What do you mean have color in them? Don't ask me that. Follow up.

I, as soon as this is more of mine. So I don't, as I dropped that, I said, don't ask me more about what I just said. I know. I was like, I don't need the science. The one thing about the podcast that sucks is like in normal life, I can just say whatever I want. People don't like, and here they check the facts. Yeah. People don't like, they're like, yeah, she said it confidently. I, I got a blowout in Paris, LOL. When I went for a couple of days, why I got a blowout. I don't know. I was like, I just want to feel fresh girl. The way that I'm going to make you try the Jason air wrap today and change your life is crazy.

Cannot wait. But she was just like, oh, like you need more layers. Your hair's too heavy. Your hair's too heavy, like too thin, but heavy. And like, you're not going to get a blowout that you want. Because I always ask for a bouncy blowout. I'm like, give me the bouncy blowout. Here's the Pinterest blowout.

Not that hard. And like, I don't understand that my hair does not do that. It really, it doesn't hold. No, Lindsay. It's a lot of hair and thin. All right. Let's see what the Dyson does. Also, you got to get my girl come over to give you a haircut. A hundred dollars. I just got, I just, I have more layers now. I just got a haircut two days ago. Dyson air up in my girl that will cut your hair. But how often do you do the Dyson air up though? Cause I heard a thing the other day. I do it once a week. I only wash my hair once a week. Okay.

Because they said if you do it a lot, it'll breaky-breaky. Whoa. So once a week is fine. I know, but I should probably wash my hair more, to be honest. Why? I don't think so. The Dyson hair wrap, you guys, is...

this is another important thing, is so worth it. And it was six, okay. 600 bucks. I was, this is so hilarious. This is my life is so weird. I was at the mall with my friends. I like that. Like the, getting your ears pierced. That's you are. Getting my ears pierced, chopping it, limited to drinking Haagen-Dazs shake. And we were like,

let's go into the Dyson store and try out things. And so we tested the Dyson hair up on my bangs because I had just gotten bangs. I didn't know how to style them. Wow. And I literally was sold. I was like, oh, I just spent $600 at the Dyson store. It was worth it. Yeah, people say it works. It works. I would see women on Instagram and I would be like, where do they get those bouncy body waves? And I was like, this, it's it. Yeah, I can't wait to see if it works. I'm sure it will on me. And it takes like 10 minutes.

Each strand? Yes. What? I take four days. I do not have that time. No, it takes 10 minutes to do your whole hair. Dude. Oh, your whole head? Yes. What do you mean? Oh, I was like. Dude, your mom filter is making you fearful. Strand.

Yeah, I don't have time. I'm like, I don't have time. That would make sense. I wish. You will, and it will last three days. Okay. Yeah. I'm down. I'm down with it. Okay, so we have this conversation about skincare, Botox. Yeah, Catherine Romina's here. I'm really... A lot of people are doing no Botox lately. Yeah, it's a thing. I thought about it literally a year and a half ago. I gave up Botox like...

two years and a couple months ago and I was like I feel like maybe it was just my prayer I was like I feel like this is gonna become a thing with people and not because I had an adverse effect nothing like that that was not my experience I actually fucking loved Botox for what it did I loved the feeling I love the frozen frozenness and like the the wrinkle uh free side effects but I

I stopped right before I got pregnant. I kind of knew it was a part of my like conception journey. I was like, there's certain things that I'm going to stop doing. And I got pregnant like a month later. And then, which is not the reason, but I was just to kind of put it into perspective. And then...

Yeah, I've just decided. I was like, I'm done. I was kind of scared by that decision because I'm like, fuck, I'm going to say this publicly. Like, I do feel like I can change my mind publicly, but that one's a hard one. This is one of the many with celebrities that say, I got it twice and then I stopped. Ariana Grande. All of them are like, what? I've gotten it done twice and then I stopped. Yeah.

It's not how that works. I know. It does not work like that. But I'm like, I want to give it a really good go at trying alternatives. So I found Catherine Romine through our friend Danielle Pacente. And they became friends years ago, I think in Arizona. But she has been on her own journey since her 10 years of using Botox. She had many adverse experiences.

side effects. So she would get rashes. She had, I think, slight, not paralysis, but she would have like these, the muscles in her eyebrows would droop. I think one eye is like droopier than the other. So she's had to really work on that naturally. And she's just had other reactions like health-wise, her hormones, et cetera, that have been really funky. She talks about in the episode. So she's had to really work on that naturally.

So she's been on this journey of figuring out what has been the best way to stimulate collagen production to really treat your skin as the alive thing that it is and not something that you need to freeze or like, you know, kind of mutilate to be what you want it to be. Like you just have to

feed it what it needs, both internally and externally. So, um, we talk about that. We talk about what she is eating, what she is drinking, some things that you wouldn't expect, um, that is just contributing to her skin being just incredibly vibrant. She has, um,

Like it's very plump, so there's no visible wrinkles. She hasn't done Botox for years. We talk about taping, cupping. We talk about some of the kind of like trendy things that people are doing now, whether it's like gua sha or face massage and kind of her thoughts on that. Yeah.

various skincare, like specific skincare that's very trendy right now, like hyaluronic acid and actually why that doesn't work and doesn't get to the layer of your skin that it actually needs to. You have to ingest the hyaluronic acid in different forms, whether it's like tremella mushroom or other things like that. So it was just a

For me, I love these types of conversations because it was actionable and I'm able to understand from a biological perspective, like why these things work and why Botox, you know, could over time be detrimental, not only to your physiology and the muscles in your face, but also for some people and some people's systems could be

not mesh well and could cause these adverse reactions. And we've seen some people in the public like have adverse reactions. It'll make sense. I mean, it's a toxin, right? Yeah. It's a neurotoxin. Yeah. Yeah. I'm still on it. I'm still on it. You look great. What was dude, you guys, I do it twice a year, dude. So I'm doing a white listing ad. This is about Botox. I'm doing a white listing ad for a brand that I work with and they're

really putting some dollars behind it because the comments I'm getting are there. It's like, it's about a supplement. That's a beauty supplement. It's works. I love it. I use it all the time. It's glutathione, which isn't just an antioxidant that is improves you from a beauty perspective. People are like, Oh, is it the antioxidant or is it the Botox people? You're

Like, it's both, bitch. No, literally, I go in my... I just go to have peace on my Instagram and just look at cat videos and have people that are like, which one is it? Is it all of the work you've had done or is it just supplement? And I'm like, let me be strangers on the internet. We can do both. Dude.

But this is really, you know, if this is something that you're exploring or say you're having adverse reactions or say you do want to... I do want to try the face taping. I do want to stay up on this. I really think it's a great idea. It's a commitment, y'all. I know. That's the thing. It is not just... And she talks about this. I'm concerned about the eyebrows lowering and I think that's what will make me stop if I do because everyone's now getting...

their eyelids done. The lift. I think part of that is genetic. Cause I mean, my mom's, my Nana's like, I know it's coming for me. Like just in terms of that, like that, uh, sagginess or whatever, but I've seen incredible transformations, not only from Catherine's focus, which is the cupping, the taping. And she has actually a product out called, um, rebel talks. It's like, uh, I wouldn't want to say nature's Botox, but it's, it's a herbal formulation. That's

helps plump the skin. But also from like face yoga, face exercises that I've seen people do where like it's a commitment, but you train these muscles and basically something like this. If you're watching on YouTube, you like kind of purse your lips almost as if you're like doing a wide kiss, like, and then just these muscles right here.

Doing that every day 30 times, say, I don't know, 60 times. Training these muscles because guess what these do? These lift this and they get rid of these smile lines right here. So it's like understanding that I have people I follow. I'll link them in the show notes. It's fascinating and it's possible, but it takes consistency and like it's work. So Botox is like boom, boom, you're good. Right.

Not long term. What if we all decide, you guys, together? I know. We're going to stop all of this. And by the way, I'm looking in the mirror these days. And we're just going to decide to be deformed. And I have to really, I have to notice the thoughts going through my head because I do have lines. I do have things that I'm seeing that I didn't normally see when I was doing Botox. And it's a little trippy. Some days it's harder than others. But I'm like, okay.

you know, like what is a long-term solution that I can really commit to? And do I want to be having, do I want to have to do Botox for the rest of my life? Probably not, not knowing what it's going to do. I can feel it in my forehead when we talk about it. I'm like, oh, I know it isn't like a long-term solution for, for many people or for us in general, but I agree. I just, I'm like, oh man, you know, what's so funny is the other last thing about this. I was like, I think being single and feeling so good, um,

and beautiful inside and out in the past year. Cause I didn't feel for so long. I was like, I heard God be like talking about my attachment to it where God's like, don't, you know, don't get too attached to, to beauty. And I was like, Oh, okay. And he's like,

It's funny because you think that you're going to be sad when you're older, when you're not like as quote unquote beautiful from beauty standards. He's like, you're going to feel so free. He's like being an obsession with staying youthful and beautiful is such a limiting way to live and the way that you present and the way that you're so concerned with how people metabolize what you look like all the time over just like existing. Yeah. He's like, you're just going to feel so liberated. And I actually was reading this book.

maybe it was Janine Roth, who's like an amazing, one of my favorite authors. She was talking about that, how when you get older, she's like, wow, I thought it would be a thing that bothered me, but I actually felt free where I didn't have the like male gaze all the time. And I didn't have people clocking me all the time. And I actually felt like I could live in my body in a way that, and, and be in what I be in my experience fully without having it be so physically driven. Yes. And even like, you know, if you have a partner, it's like,

It's like the beauty and hotness and sexiness that they appreciate as you get older is also kind of like an affirming thing. I don't know. It's just like a different thing than being in the male gaze. I was also, yeah. I was somewhere. I was at this thing recently and there was a baby shower and it was one of my friends had her parents. Her mom was there with her mom's friends. They're all like very LA moms, so very obsessed with looks. And they were very...

obsessed with how all the girls looked at the baby shower who are younger than them. And I

I was just like, wow, like healthy brain development actually is when you are looking at people your age group and your age range and are comparing and clocking yourself if you do that to them rather than like people 30 years younger than you. That's actually from an attraction perspective too when you should be attracted to people that are around your age from a healthy brain. But like someone that's attracted to someone 20 years younger, 30 years younger. Yeah.

Kind of, that's not always the healthiest brain. Yeah. People are going to come at me for that, but whatever, dude. Your perv boyfriend's weird. Yeah.

Your six-year-old boyfriend. Whatever, dude. Dated a 50-year-old two seconds ago. It's all good. You got to test him out. I still love a 30-year-old. Never know. Two months ago. Well, thank you, Catherine. This was so much fun, so informative. You can follow Catherine on Instagram, Catherine underscore Romine. And her website is linked there. I'll link it in the show notes. But she has her tape and cupping guide, which has been so helpful to me, as well as her rebel talk.

so you can learn how to do all the things. She's certified in many things. So she's really coming at it from a perspective of understanding the physiology of the face. I learned so much. So enjoy this episode. Share it with a friend. Share it with a friend. Enjoy. We love you guys and we'll see you on the other side. Bye.

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I, over the last two years, have just entered into this post-Botox era. And I think I am not alone. I am hearing more and more people, whether they had adverse reactions or not, are quitting Botox and the like. And so it's a really, I think, exciting time to be learning more about what you are an expert in, holistic skincare,

And I just love, love, love following you. And I love learning from you. And it's just brought a whole new experience to like my relationship to my skin. So Catherine Romine is here. I'm so pumped. I would love to start with your story. You share about it often visually on Instagram, which is so powerful. But I'm just fascinated with...

your evolution of your relationship with your skin. Absolutely. I am so excited to be having these conversations more and more. And it is really wonderful for me as someone who's been on this journey for probably close to five years now, ever since my daughter was born, to just see how much more this is a conversation that's being had. And I love talking about what you said, which is our relationship to our skin, because I think that that is one of

the really most untalked about things, right? Like you were saying, we see visually all these things about like how I did this without Botox or how this happened or how I transformed this. But so infrequently we hear people explain the evolution of their relationship to their skin, whether it's when their skin was in turmoil, whether it's what they learned from their mom or their friend group or the influencer or celebrity on Instagram or TikTok or

The most important part of the journey for me actually has been the inputs that affect the relationship with my skin have started to come from my heart and my soul and my understanding of skin function and the purpose of our skin beyond aesthetics versus having it come from all these outs.

Yeah.

That has been very complex, but very rewarding to look into it and break down those barriers and those walls and any shame or guilt about choices I made in the past. And that, of course, is a conversation that could go on for a very long time talking about all the mistakes and all the misinformation and all the things that I kind of went through to get where I am.

where I am now, which is having this abundance of wealth and knowledge about the harm that

That all of these procedures, options, these inputs from other places have done to my body and my skin over the years. And really just understanding that and finding a way to cancel it out and get back to myself and, you know, what I believe, what feels good to me. And in some cases, what the science is really saying, not just the marketing tactics that we're kind of bombarded with every single day from multiple facets. Yeah.

Yeah, the marketing is kind of wild. We'll get into that. What was your experience specifically? I guess, at what point did you start doing Botox and the like? Where were you at in terms of that influence? What made you want to do that? And what did you find it actually did for your skin? Because I was so asleep to this for quite some time. But if I really...

If I really took a moment, you know, and kind of came out of the quick fix, non-active participant in like my skin's vitality, I would have realized that.

what was actually happening, but can you kind of bring us to that point where you were kind of thick and using Botox and, and what were you experiencing symptom wise? Absolutely. Um, I started very young and I would say the culture on social media wouldn't say it's young, but my understanding now it is very, very young. Um, I started getting Botox, I think when I was 24. Wow. That's very young. Um,

I was someone, I played sports all growing up. I lived and breathed soccer, sports, like all of that stuff. The only kind of information I knew about skin and makeup was what I learned from my friends in the couple of years that I did competitive cheerleading. My mom was not into skin or makeup or like anything like that. So, you know, not to her fault in any way, but I just had no idea.

knowledge or education. There was no social media back then, which I know ages me, but there was... I miss those days, honestly. I miss it so much. So there wasn't videos showing you how to take care of your skin, all these things. I also have skin cancer that runs in my family. I have a skin type that is very prone to pigmentation. I

And I found myself pretty much 22, 23, 24. I had hormone issues. So I had some imbalances. I had amenorrhea from being an athlete, which means I had no period. I was 24 and I had not had a single consistent cycle of a period at that point. So I was dealing with like some hormonal acne issues. I had three spots of skin cancer before I was 28.

And I was transitioning from the world of soccer to the world of acting and modeling. I had no clue what that world was really about and how to navigate it. And I found myself in a position where not only was I seeing close-ups of my skin for the first time in my life, was I seeing...

My face next to other models' faces. I was also getting feedback from coaches, teachers, casting directors, all sorts of people. And I was in the thick of going to the dermatologist regularly for hormonal acne, for my skin cancer. I had just sunspots everywhere.

because I didn't practice safe sun care. I had done tanning beds when I was in my young teens. I really just was 24 experiencing skin issues of a 44-year-old. And so because of modeling and acting, I was just listening to everything the dermatologist said for me to do, which I'll be very clear anytime I talk about this, I have no ill will or

I never like to speak badly about dermatologists, even though it was the recommendations through some dermatologists that got me kind of in a bad place with my skin. I just like to make that clear because, you know, it's not my goal to ever break down other people's positions, stances. I just want to speak my truth.

So I was about 24, 25. I had deep forehead lines, had very hooded eyes, my crow's feet, like anything. So I was doing hydroquinone. I was doing lasers, IPLs. I got three Mohs surgeries done on my three spots of skin cancer. And it just felt like Botox was not only the logical next step, definitely in the eyes and the recommendations of my dermatologist, but

but also in the industry that I was working in. So I didn't think to ask any questions. I was young. I figured if the dermatologist said it was safe, it was safe. If it was being presented to me by a doctor, it must have been a fine choice, especially at that age. I'm very thankful that I had a very big fear of needles. So I never went down the filler route because...

the concept of how filler was put into the face, I just went, absolutely not. And so I'm very thankful I had that big fear. I don't have that fear of needles anymore after pregnancy and all that stuff. But yeah, I'm thankful that that kind of saved me from the filler route because I

I genetically have kind of like more deep under eye sockets. And so every time I went to get Botox, it was, we can put a little filler under there, a little filler here. We'll fix that right up. And I was like, don't come at me with your needle. I shoved up my cheek. And for a while, I thought that was fine. You know, I kind of, everything started to

Like you were saying, they were quick fixes. So, you know, the sunspots were going away. The wrinkles were smooth. My eyes were a little lifted. I had no scrunchy crow's feet. And honestly, it looked fantastic on camera. You know, like I would go to an audition class every Tuesday and every time it started to wear off, you could see it. You know, it's a close up of your face like this on camera. And yeah, it just it looked great.

But isn't it, isn't it funny just on that note? Like I remember feeling the same way. I also was pursuing acting for a time and you know, we see this now, whether it's in movies, TV, a lot of reality TV, obviously, but faces aren't moving and it's weird. And I still find myself like kind of reverting to, Oh wow. She has a lot of forehead wrinkles if the forehead's moving. Right. And it's,

It's not something we're used to seeing anymore, which is like kind of. It makes you feel like when yours does move, that there's something wrong with you. You're not seeing normal movement, whether it's on screen, on social media. So you think when you see your forehead move or your forehead wrinkle, that must be a problem or there's something wrong with my skin that needs to be quote unquote fixed. And like, that's the biggest thing for me is like the word fixed. So nothing needs to be fixed.

There's nothing wrong with you. We just need to learn how to optimize your skin, your muscles, your fascia, like all of those things. And so I 100% agree with you. And I, as an actress who is on hiatus building this crazy business, when I watch now and I see a woman crying, I'm

But there's no movement in her face. I can't see the sadness. I can't see the turmoil because nothing's moving here. Nothing's coming here. That emotional connection as an audience member is broken for me. And I always think about that.

When I got Botox and my daughter was young, there had to have been an emotional disconnection from me and her of her not seeing those normal emotional movement patterns on my face. And there actually are very interesting studies and articles that confirm that.

There is a broken connection of not only the empathy that you feel as the person who's receiving the Botox and is not having the facial movement, but on the receiver's end as well has a difficult time receiving.

connecting and understanding the emotions that you're outputting. Yes. I remember feeling that. I remember feeling like my capacity to feel was kind of thwarted. Like I couldn't, because I have a very expressive face, theater kid. I'm super expressive. So when I had Botox, I just remember, I just remember feeling like kind of like,

one line, you know, like I couldn't fully express, even though I could, I just, my face is such a part of how I express that. Yeah. That's such an interesting point. And of course the connection to the child, I think about that all the time, all the time. Absolutely. And I, and I think too, that as this kind of like shift is happening and we start to see a dichotomy of actresses without the

versus the ones with, you'll start to notice it more because if you don't have that dichotomy,

And the differences to compare, you don't know. But as soon as you have the differences to compare, you go, oh, wait, that, you know, one of these things is not like the other. Yeah, that's it's a very I feel like I could talk about that topic just as a storyteller and an actress who's like, it's all about emoting. It's definitely an interesting, interesting conversation. But to kind of circle that back around to when I got to the point where I

The quick fixes that seem to be working started to not only not be working, but then started to cause issues. And so I...

Sometimes I'm like, I have to do math in my head. My daughter's five, I'm 37. So yeah, so my early 30s is kind of right when I got pregnant with my daughter. So obviously pregnancy, no Botox. I wasn't using super toxic skincare and makeup back then, but I definitely wasn't as aware of it as I am now.

I got very sick when I got pregnant. I had something called hyperemesis. And so, yes, I was basically from about six weeks pregnant until 26 weeks. I was in and out of the hospital. I had a PICC line. I was on TPN. I was throwing up anywhere from like 30 to 60 times a day. I

My liver tried to shut down, like all this stuff. Oh my God. I'm so sorry. I have a couple of friends that went through that. That is so intense. It was. To say the least. I fought for my life for nine months for sure. Yeah. I had a PICC line with medication to keep me from vomiting. And I think two interesting things came out of that.

Obviously, the last thing I was worried about was my acting career or what my face looked like or right. None of that mattered for a strong three years. None of that mattered to me. You know, there was one night where I had been in the hospital. I had got sent home. I was on TPN. We had put the TPN in and I had a heating pad on.

And all of a sudden, I just started vomiting and seizing just out of nowhere. Like I was full body, like seizure shakes. I was uncontrollably vomiting. My mom, my poor little tiny five foot nothing mom had to like drag me to the car, drive me to the ER. You know, and for both of us, we're just going crazy.

This is probably, I'm probably miscarrying, which is what you just kind of assume when something that insane is happening. Wow. And so I think when you have moments like that, nothing else matters to you. Right. And so like when my daughter was born,

I was still in this state of nothing else matters to me in the world except the fact that her and I are healthy and here. And so that stuck with me for, I mean, my whole pregnancy, obviously, and then all the way till she was about like two. I just, I feel like I didn't even look in the mirror for two years, right? Like I just was completely unaware, unthinking, uncaring about any of that stuff. Yeah.

And so obviously life puts you in perspective and gives you those opportunities. And I feel like I took it for a little period of time. And then my husband retired from baseball and I had to go back to work. I had to find a way, you know, to make money. And the only way I knew how was modeling and acting. That's all I had done for 12 years. And before that, all I had done was play soccer.

So as soon as I started modeling and acting again, I just naturally went back to Botox. But something happened to my body in those three years that I was violently ill during pregnancy and then had crazy hormone shifts after having her and all of those things. And the first time I got Botox after not having it for three years and pregnancy and all of that,

I got my injections, went home, and about three hours later, I had chills, a fever, a little bit of like shaky hands. The next morning, I had like a huge histamine reaction on my neck. And I looked it up and it was like, they call it the Botox flu. It's a real thing.

I had never experienced it before and it freaked me out more than anything. I was a mom, obviously. So the last thing we ever want as moms is to be unwell. But also it was just the first time that I stopped and went,

This totally safe thing that I'm told is completely non-harmful, how could it make me feel this way? How could it make this? And I was already on a very intense non-toxic journey and I never put the pieces of the puzzle together for some reason. And I obviously know now that it's because of the way we talk about Botox.

And I should say neurotoxins because there's five other brands of neurotoxins that do the same thing. And it's the marketing tactics that made me feel so safe doing something that truly just is so much more complex than before. So I remember texting my injector and saying, hey, this is happening. I'm a little freaked out. You know, this never happened before. Am I okay? Do I need to go to the doctor? Oh, yeah, it's completely normal. It should be gone in a couple of days.

And my brain just went, whoa, like what? You know, and at the end of the text conversation, I remember her telling me, hey, just so you know, too, we did die sport. We didn't do Botox. And the like control freak mom and me went, Catherine Romine, you did not even know what you just got injected into your face. I didn't even know. Wow. Instead of Botox. No idea. Yeah.

And so slowly things started stacking and stacking and stacking and not making sense and not adding up. I did, shockingly, have it done again after that. As you do. You're like, just let me say one more. Just make sure this was a real thing. And a couple other symptoms happened after the next one that...

not as drastic, but kind of, I just was already in the mindset of questioning things. And when I'm the type of person that like, when I start questioning something, I'm all in, I want to know what is it, why this happened? Who's it happening else to? Am I the only one? Like what's going on in my body? I become an investigator. I want to know what the heck just happened.

And so I started having some blurry eyes and like overactive tears, more histamine flare-ups. And after the second or third, I started having panic attacks. And that for me, the panic attacks were what really just...

was the end of the rope. And this all happened obviously within like a short nine month span because I'm a very expressive person. I also have a very high metabolism. My body goes through talks like that.

Like, you give me injections, they are gone in three months. I'd also been getting it like you for seven to eight years. And as you go and go and go and go, you need more and more and more and more. And your body really starts to create, you know, these antibodies and just doesn't work the same anymore. Yeah.

So the panic attacks were really what sent me over the edge. I remember one night I was sitting on the ground in my kitchen. It was like I had just gotten the injections like two weeks before and I was having a panic attack and I didn't know what it was, but I had this like feeling in my chest and like it was just a mess. And so I never went back after that, obviously. But

My reason I started getting Botox again when I went back to acting was because obviously my skin was a mess from pregnancy and postpartum and like, you know, the trauma of how hard my pregnancy was.

And I probably, you know, I had deep, deep, deep wrinkles. I had inflammation all over my face. I had lymph stagnation, all this stuff. And I had just really tight, stuck muscles and fascia from being sick, bedridden, all of that stuff. Yeah.

So I just went on a deep dive and I just said no more. Like this is absolutely not okay for this to be making me feel this way. As soon as I started sharing my experience, um,

a giant influx of people saying they had the same experiences started coming through. And as I started connecting the dots more to more symptoms that I realized were from my injections and sharing those, and it still happens to this day and even on a bigger scale since my community has grown,

Other women are connecting dots that they didn't know were connected because no one's talking about it. And so that kind of led me to where I am now, which is having spent the last three to five years just really questioning everything that I was being told that I was doing, that I was practicing, that I was reading was...

fixing my skin or helping my skin or healing my skin or any of those things. And I kind of just got to the point where I felt like everything I had been told was no longer true. And I just started questioning and changing everything.

And obviously, my results aesthetically have been mind-blowing and completely... You know, I think sometimes people think that what I share must be a scam or it must be me lying because the results have been so drastic. But I think that that's just what happens when...

when you focus on the right modalities and nourishment and function of the skin and all of that stuff, rather than like you were saying, the quick fixes and the stuff that kind of is like inhibiting function versus nourishing and supporting it. Yeah, it really becomes, you know, a part of the fabric of your lifestyle. And I think when you're first learning about all of these healthier, whether it's products,

things you eat, drink, tools, yada, yada practices. Um, it can be overwhelming, pretty overwhelming. Um, so, you know, I just want to say that at the outset, because I do want to go into, um, just how we can just begin to make our skin more healthy and alive. Um, because I think that's what I've experienced where, you know, my skin has full movement. Um,

And full expression, but it looks and feels more alive than ever. And I'm also 37. The last, I just want to kind of end the, the, that Botox piece with, you know, you said it's a neurotoxin. And so I guess why is like it,

Why is it regulated where we can inject it into our face, which is right next... Our brain's right behind this dermis here. So what's happening? Why is this allowed to happen? Is it mostly safe and it's just these one-off cases? Or do we just not know yet because there's no research? What's happening? Yeah, this is a very complicated part of this conversation because on one end of the spectrum, you have...

hundreds of thousands of women who have had

Not only similar experiences to you and I in the sense of, you know, when they stop, they feel more alive. Their skin feels more nourished, all these things. But you also have the other end of the spectrum, which is health implications from everything from what I mentioned, which are actually very minor compared to what some women have experienced, you know, all the way up to full systemic botulism and everything in between.

And I think that there are some aspects of the conversation that are uncomfortable for me to talk about simply because it requires me to question certain agencies and regulations and things like that that are not my place to question. But what I will say on that topic is that smoking was...

said to be safe for a very, very, very long time from a lot of different people. And that for me is the category that I personally put Botox in right now. And I think that this is the beginning of us realizing maybe what's around the corner. Yeah. I completely agree. And I also think that I think you have to follow the money.

Yeah, I know. I was waiting for that piece. I was like, yeah, I think you said that beautifully. And, you know, we can kind of leave it at that because I think it's also important for people to hear that and then do their own research digging if they desire, because I don't think it'll really land unless we kind of do that research on our own too. But I completely agree.

agree. And there's just so many, so many things, honestly, there's so many things that we are using, doing in our daily lives, um, that I just pray that like in 10, 20 years, there are not going to be studies that come out and then are like, wow, this causes cancer or this causes, uh, ADHD or, you know, and I think one of the, one of the best things that I point people to, uh, just ask your injector for the, for the insert for the black box warning insert.

read the whole thing. I mean, I just really that it's there for you. The information was all there for me the whole time. I just never asked about it. I never, I didn't know it existed. You know, I think, I think if I remember correctly, the black box warning for Botox started in 2002. So look up all the lawsuits prior to 2002, because now that there's a black box warning there, you know, you can't hold the company Allergan, um,

You can't hold them accountable. And so that's, you know, there's a couple lawyers that have spoken out who used to kind of take on Botox injury cases in the past. But obviously now they don't because the black box warning. And I think one of the things that I always just remind people is there is only a black box warning on something for a reason. And that reason is injury.

You know, and so we could sit here and I just feel like you could go back and forth like toe for toe, tit for tat. This study says this, this study says that, you know, I say this isn't safe. This injector says absolutely it's safe. You know, an injector said to me on Instagram just yesterday, you know, Botox has more safety studies than Tylenol. Okay. Well, that might be true.

it still doesn't prove what the long-term safety of 10, 20, 30 years of the injections is really going to do. And by the way, every body is different. And where your body was at before you got the injections, right? Like my body had a completely different reaction later in my life when I was...

a lot less healthy or, or it was that I was getting it for seven to eight years. And then finally it was fed up with it. Right. There's so many factors. You know, I had this post on Instagram go insanely viral and it was just five questions to ask your injector before you get neurotoxin injections, you know, and,

If you can't have that five-question conversation with them and feel safe and comfortable after that conversation with not only their answers, but with your full understanding of the status of your body, how many units you're getting, are you getting off-label units? I think right now it used to be 30. It might be 40 now. So anything above 40 is an off-label dosage of 5%.

from the actual company, right? So there's like, there's so many facets of this conversation that are just nuanced and complicated. And so I think each person has to start just asking questions and get to a point where they feel safe and comfortable. And if that choice is to still get it, I think that's fine. And that's great. And I support them. I don't judge them. I did it too. I just think that it is dangerous to,

The way that we as a society not only speak about it, the way it's marketed, the way we're pushing it on younger and younger women with no studies that tell us if you start Botox at 25, what does that mean when you're 45? If someone can show me that and show me what that safety looks like and what's happening inside the body, that's

I'm, I would love to see that, but it doesn't exist as far as my knowledge right now. So those are just things where, you know, I just think about if this is the landscape of how we talk about things like this now, I'm scared for what that looks like when my daughter's 25, unless we start having these more deep conversations where we start going, Hey,

I'm not sure that this is feeling right or that, you know, these answers to these questions are good enough at this point. I think it's so important lately, especially for people to speak out, you know, especially people that have platforms who are being followed for, you know, beauty, skin, whatever it is, whatever they're being followed for.

And I'm actually not talking about myself, though I know I'm one of them to some people. But I've seen like really big influencers talk about this. And I just think it's really, really important. It almost just triggers something in the brain of like, oh, wait, I can question this? Oh, wait, maybe my symptoms are connected to this. Okay, I want to change gears a little bit and go into –

I would love a little sneak peek into the seven sins of skincare. Like I want, I think people, at least this is how I feel. Sometimes I don't know if what I'm doing or using is okay. And sometimes I'm just my own little skincare witch in my bathroom, like just kind of making things up. And I think I have it locked in now because I've, you know, I've learned from you. Um,

But so often I'm like guessing. So would love to get into that because I think people are kind of going into this a little blind. I agree. I think we're all very blind. I was for a very long time. Yeah. So I think this conversation also kind of comes back to marketing tactics a little bit. Yeah.

This goes back to my conversation and my experience with sunspots and skin cancer. I had dermatitis, like redness, aging, all of that stuff. Um,

And it felt like everything I used really just either made things worse, worked for a minute, then either stopped working or made things worse. And so before I actually got into my Botox deep dive and the whole shenanigans with that, I had already started on a skincare ingredient journey, which was ignited by my skin cancer diagnosis.

plural. There was three of them. And I kind of got to a little bit of the same conclusion that I kind of got to with injectables. Um,

is that there's not a really good, strong body of research on what happens when you put 12 products that have 56 ingredients each in them. And then there was this recurring list of ingredients that I was finding over and over and over and over again, that if you researched individually by themselves,

showed to be skin sensitizing, damaging the barrier, damaging the skin's microbiome, making the skin more sensitive to sun, to UV damage. And then we're using products, like I said, that have 50 of these ingredients in them. And we're using 12 of those products a day, maybe twice a day. And then the skin is just broken down. And then we go to the dermatologist and then we try to get...

prescription medication to fix it. And then round and round we go on the hamster wheel. And so for me, that really got to the point where I just said, okay, every product that I use, I'm going to understand every single ingredient in it. I want to know what it is, why it's called what it is, why it's in the product, what it does for my skin and how it interacts and reacts with all the other ingredients that I'm using. And so a lot of times people will say,

I always like to use essential oils because that's a big one that people push back at me about and get very defensive and confused about, which is understandable. And so they'll say, well, this study says it's safe and this study says this amount is safe. And then this expert formulator uses it in this percent and all these things. And those are all, again, probably true.

But what happens when you use 15 products that all have that 0.5% in it? Well, you're not at 0.5% anymore, right? And so like those are the nuanced parts of the conversation that I felt were missing from an educational standpoint. And I also think that there were trends that I saw over time that

as I got deeper and deeper and deeper and again, asking more and more and more questions where because skincare has become a multi-billion dollar industry, which is mostly thanks to social media, there are more and more companies, right? There's a skincare. I feel like every neighborhood probably has someone who owns a skincare brand at that point. And what most

brands and companies are doing. And when I say most, I just, there's a handful of them that are taking ingredients that already have a strong researched, studied background that have given like

We'll use hyaluronic acid for an example, right? So like there's a handful of studies that say that hyaluronic acid increases by six, you know, skin moisture by 6,000%, blah, blah, blah, right? It has this. Well, you will notice that now every single skincare brand and we'll call, I call it big beauty. So we're not talking about small businesses or small botanical companies. We're talking about, you know, these big companies, right?

They're all going to throw hyaluronic acid into their product. Why? There's usually a buzz. There's like a buzz ingredient of the year. And I agree. Hyaluronic acid is this last year. I'm trying to think of other ones. I mean, there's been so many like

Yeah. I mean, now it's peptides, but I think peptides are good-ish. We can talk about it anyway. But so they all throw them into their product and sometimes multiple versions of it because then it'll come out that hydrolyzed hyaluronic acid or low molecular weight hyaluronic acid and all these things, right? Basically because, like you said, it's a trend. So they can say, hey, our product has it too. Yeah.

Or because they just want to say our product is backed by research. That doesn't mean their product is right. Like, yes, it doesn't mean that it's just the product is backed by research. It means one ingredient or one or two ingredients in this product have some research that show that it does X, Y, Z. And so, again, that for me is like I get really frustrated.

worked up about it because it's just a marketing tactic.

It is not really helping you understand your skin, what your skin needs, how these 72 ingredients interact with your skin, the state of your sebum, the other ingredients and products you're using, right? Like there's this laundry list of things. And that's why so often people will be like, this is the best product in the world. It completely healed my skin. And then the person next door is like, that wrecked my skin.

Right.

And it's just so nuanced and complex, but we just want to go, hey, that product has XYZ ingredient that Kim Kardashian uses and it's backed by research. It must be perfect for me. And so that I feel like is just where, again, it comes back to, we have to ask different questions and we really just have to look closer to,

at what we're using, why we're using it, why the company is saying X, Y, Z about it. And then also just ask ourselves, what is it doing for me long-term? Right? Like there are very few ingredients and products that I would say, Hey, Lindsay, you should use this for 20 years every day, twice a day. Like very few.

Because your skin needs to function optimally with the least amount of input possible to stay healthy and strong into your 40s, your 50s, your 60s, right? Like...

We don't want to keep slathering on things that are going to thin the skin, make it more sensitive to the sun, like all of this stuff, because it might work short term again. But in 20 years, where are you going to be? And so I feel like because of all the mistakes I made in my 20s, I was already seeing that happen in my 30s. And I went, oh boy, where am I going to be at 45? Where am I going to be at 55? You know, and now with...

This trend literally makes my stomach hurt, but nine-year-olds, 10-year-olds being obsessed with Sephora and all of these. They can't. The get ready with me's of the nine-year-olds, what? I just...

I don't even know. Yeah, that's a whole other topic too. I completely agree. Just this like, you know, this obsession with consumerism and that to all of that. But, but what did you find? Where are you? Where are you directing people product wise, and we'll get into the practices that have really helped my skin as well. And also when I'm eating and drinking that you recommend, but

I guess if you're looking at someone's skincare routine, what are some, ooh, a lot of people are doing this and it is not great for our skin. Again, there's bio-individuality, so I get that. But in general, and where are you directing them for a better result? So that's kind of where the seven sins of skincare was born. And I always try to make sure that I say, you know, there are...

Common truths? I think for most everyone. There are always going to be outliers and people who go, hyaluronic acid is the best thing for my skin, completely fixed it. It's the best ever, right? Those are what I call outliers, at least in my opinion, or people who just haven't gotten to the point where that ingredient has broken their skin down yet.

It's one of the two. So the seven sins of skincare, and I won't go into all of them because it is very lengthy and complex, but it's usually things like toxins, right? And so that's one of the top ones. And I talk about toxins and skincare from two standpoints, which is one, what's it doing to your hormones and your health overall? Right.

And then two, what's it doing to, you'll hear me say this a lot, is your barrier in your biome. So your skin barrier and your skin microbiome, if those two things are broken down, you could use all the skincare in the world, right? You could use all the actives in the world. You're just always going to feel like your skin is just kind of meh.

It's reactive. It's red. Products don't seem to work right. Everything gets irritated and patchy, all of that stuff. And that often comes from things like emulsifiers, surfactants, preservatives. Preservatives are a really big one for the microbiome and usually is something that I will see that when I remove that from my clients who have acne and I take away all

all of those biome-impacting or dysregulating ingredients and let their microbiome rebalance out with a little bit of help, but mostly just by removing those ingredients, they see drastic improvement in a very short amount of time because your barrier and your biome want to function optimally because they're protective immune organs. Your skin is your largest protective organ and is your first line of defense. So it is...

Yeah.

And then we kind of go down the list to, you know, not necessarily things that are particularly going to impact your body internally, but just things like high polyunsaturated fatty acid oils, which is a very triggering topic for people both internally and topically. And then just things like essential oils, hyaluronic acid, and really just anything that is going to imbalance the microbiome, break down the barrier and or, you

send your skin into some sort of like immune dysregulation. And so a lot of people will say, you know, the skin is your largest detox organ. And I always like to remind them it's also your largest immune organ and your largest protective organ. And when we only treat the skin as if it is either a detox organ or something to be manipulated aesthetically, then we forget that it has a very important function as an organ. And

And so that for me is kind of like putting those pieces together. The seven sins of skincare really came from a place of removing everything that impedes optimal function. Yeah, it's fascinating to think of the skin as the important barrier that it is and also...

like your gut microbiome, your skin has a microbiome and it's connected to so many things. People can learn more about the seven skin sins of skincare in which of your guides? So it's actually, it's a free guide. I'll have it on my website. It's

To be able to download for free. It's just on the homepage if you scroll down a little bit. And yeah, I kind of break down like cheat sheets, what these ingredients look like on a skincare bottle. I go into deep dives on things like essential oils, high PUFA oils, tallow, like all of that stuff. And I just kind of explain what the function of these ingredients do when you put them on their skin to help people understand if it's an ingredient that is...

obviously putting their skin in a place where they're not happy with it or what's it going to do long-term. Sure.

Okay. I know a lot of us made a vision board at the top of the year. It's a really, really powerful practice. So I'm curious what you guys put on yours because spring is coming and I kind of treat spring as like the actual new year. So sometimes at the top of the year, I'm like not motivated. I'll write things down, but I'm still kind of in that winter introspective mode. But I

Anywho, I'm excited for us because spring is here. And one of the goals I had was to really uplevel my skin and gut health. I am just interested in natural ways to make my health as optimal

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I am back to listening to audiobooks and it has been the greatest addition to my day in the last month and I just want to share with you that Audible is it. Audible is where I listen to my audiobooks. They have over 1 million audiobooks, podcasts, and exclusive Audible originals.

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Yeah. Cause girlies, let's be honest. We don't know. We're just kind of slapping things on our face and praying. Um, no, but I love your guide. So I'm, I'm really excited. So people can get that for free, but then there are a bunch of the radical radiance guide is incredible. Um, and you kind of break them out into different aspects of the guides. The trio includes all three. I would recommend that one. Um, okay. Let's,

Let's talk about, I want to talk about the practices, the taping, the cupping. There's so many. Okay. So let me just name a bunch. I feel like you focus on a few, but the taping, the cupping, the gua sha, the facial massage, the face yoga, the, is that it? That's kind of what's on my, oh, red light, uh,

Okay. What's the electromagnetic like microcurrent? Okay. Okay. So I don't recommend all these things. You're just naming all the things. I hope that's clear. I was naming all the things that I feel like are constantly, you know, being fed to me. I've tried all of them. And I feel like

It's funny, like what my body like loves and responds to or skin specifically. But talk to me about taping and cupping, which I think are like the all stars of your, your routine and ethos. Definitely. So I kind of have my guides and my modalities split up, like you were saying into like, you know, taping and cupping and collagen kind of like is my wrinkle protocol that I used when I, you know, quote unquote, broke up with Botox.

And then I have kind of the internals, which is your diet, your lifestyle, your hormones, your cortisol, how to protect your collagen, right? Like everyone talks about collagen supplement and losing collagen, but there are very real ways that you can protect and optimize the collagen levels that you still already have. Now, of course, we can increase collagen and elastin and fibroblast and hyaluronic acid with supplementation. But if you're taking those supplements, right?

but you're still living a lifestyle that is just crushing your collagen stores, they're really kind of leveling out and you're just wasting your money, in my opinion. Like, how are people crushing their collagen? Like, what's causing that? High cortisol, imbalanced hormones, high caffeine intake, high inflammatory food intake, um...

Low antioxidant stores. So like obviously eating a diet that's low in antioxidants, unsafe sun exposure. I mean, it's just a long list. But I would say the top ones are the caffeine, like huge cortisol spikes. Anytime a newly fresh postpartum mom comes to me,

I always tell her first, I'm like, work on your hormones and your cortisol first before you start cupping and taping and like doing all of these things. Like get it a little bit under control. Get your caffeine intake under control a little bit. If you are taking a collagen supplement, take it

outside of a two-hour window from drinking your coffee, right? Like let's optimize what you already have available to you and let's get like some lifestyle triggers under control. Then let's start doing the cupping and the taping and the optimization topically because I do feel like there is a point where

Things can cancel each other out, like I was saying earlier. We can put the face tape on, which is fantastic. And it's going to do amazing things topically for the muscle and the fascia. But if internally we're still in turmoil, it's really just not going to get people where they want to be. Yes.

So those protective measures for me, I think are very important. And they're not sexy and they're not fun and they're not cool and they don't look good on Instagram, but they're the ones that are really going to make a difference when we're 40, when we're 50, all of those things. And just for like the results of the things you do topically to be more permanent more quickly. Yeah. And I think that that's like a high level learning for me is like,

Anything that is worthwhile, anything that is going to hopefully be sustainable is not going to be a quick fix. You know, it's not going to be the magic pill. It's not going to be the one product that reduces. But it's like it is going to take time. It might be a step by step process of healing your hormones first of healing your skin barrier of this and then going into the taping. Yes.

And it can seem overwhelming, but the truth is it's a process. The truth is that you have to be consistent too. I find that as a mom, sometimes I'm like, I can't tape tonight. I'm sorry. I'm tired. I can't see straight and I will cut my finger off. I have a solution for that coming soon.

Oh, great. I was hoping actually that you were coming out with something. Okay, great. We don't have a ton of time, so I want to quick fire. And then I feel like there's going to be a part two to this at some point. Maybe you'll come on my new mom on the block YouTube channel. We could do a convo, especially for postpartum moms. But taping specifically, I feel like is having a moment and I feel, and I hope it lasts. Why, why is,

What is taping? And also, what is it doing for the muscles, the fascia? What's going on? So one of the biggest things that I learned once I stopped getting Botox was that a lot of my wrinkles and a lot of the kind of like things that I was getting these injections for were actually just caused by really, really, really tight muscle, by muscle tension, muscles that were stuck in positions that were not...

as they used to when we were children, falling back into those relaxed, strengthened, and lengthened positions, either because of trauma, broken down collagen, stuck emotions, just making facial expressions for 20 years, right? Like this whole laundry list of things. Some people are much more prone to it. Like you were saying, you and I, I'm a very expressive person. I have very large facial features.

certain things are just going to get more tense and deeper wrinkles for me than somebody else who has different bone structure. So learning that really is what led me to taping and cupping. So there's a couple different types of tape that, you know, are kind of making their rounds on social media. So I'll just kind of do a rapid fire understanding. So the tape that I use, sell, teach is kinesiology tape.

Now, there definitely is kinesiology tape that is too strong for the face. Kinesiology tape uses a cotton structure with an acrylic adhesive with a ridging design on the back that mimics the top layer of the skin. And when placed onto the skin, it gives a slight decompression, allowing fresh blood flow and increase of lymph flow. And it also works on the muscle to release tension because of that fresh blood and the lifting effect that kind of allows everything to relax properly.

smooth, strengthen, and lengthen. There are tons and tons and tons of studies of what kinesiology tape does for muscles. It is not specific to facial muscles just because no one's done them yet. But it really is an extremely effective modality for muscle tension. And when you release that muscle tension, it's almost as if...

I try to explain to people that it's not the fact that your face moved. It's the fact that it didn't go back to the place that you wanted it to go back to once you stopped making the expression. And most people think that that's because of collagen breakdown, which yes, eventually that's the case in our 60s and our 70s and our 80s. No matter how much tension you release, your skin will wrinkle. But if you're in your 20s, 30s, 40s, even 50s, and you are getting that wrinkling, it is most likely

likely that it's coming from a combination of muscle tension, fascia adhesions, and maybe some collagen breakdown because you haven't kind of addressed those protective measures that I was talking about earlier.

And so when you apply the tape in certain positions, in certain designs, along certain muscle insertions and origins, right? So like when we're taping our cheek, we start up here and then we pull down to here because where the muscle inserts versus where the muscle starts, which is the origin, impacts the direction it moves and all of that stuff. So when you place the tape in the right position,

place along those right muscles, you can release the muscle to go back to a relaxed state. And most often it will also smooth out the wrinkles and create less stuck movement over time. Now, like you were saying earlier, this is something we're consistent with for months versus something that's going to take effect in two weeks. That being said, it all depends on where you started,

how aggressive your muscle tension is, you know, what your age is, your wrinkle depth when you started and all of that stuff. But ideally what the tape is going to do is release the tension to allow the skin to

which is attached to the muscle. So the skin on your face is the only part of your body where the skin is attached to the muscle and the bone, which allows us to make these facial expressions. We couldn't make these same facial expressions if the skin wasn't attached to the muscle. It's not the case in other places of your body, so you won't see wrinkling like you do in the face. Right.

So I always say that where the muscle goes, the skin follows. So if we treat the muscle and we release that and the muscle lays back into its original state, into that flat, smooth, strengthened, lengthened spot, then the muscle will also do the same thing. Okay. And the...

First of all, the guides are so helpful for this. So like I know people are like, well, how do we do this? And we can do a how to on my YouTube channel at some point for like a couple of them. But I think the guides have really helped me. Like I'll sit down.

I'll put my phone, play the video right as I'm doing it, a little instructional. And it's actually really nice. I don't know why. It's like very relaxing to me. But I'm the type that doesn't like to read directions. But don't FaceTape and just guess and just kind of like follow the visual on Instagram. You kind of need to know the why and like what is actually happening and what you're doing. So I just wanted to say that. What about...

What is the benefit of coupling that with cupping? So with cupping, it is a similar mechanism of action on the skin in that when you put the cup and it suctions, it decompresses from kind of the layers down below. I always say that cupping is like taping on steroids.

So it is doing a very similar thing that the tape is doing, but it's a little bit more aggressive. So we can't do it as often. You're also using the cups in a dynamic fashion. So a lot of people will see cupping where they're kind of lighting the fire, putting it on the back and then there's a giant hickey on the back afterwards. So,

So we're using cups a little bit different on the face in that we want to go a little bit lighter and we're also using it dynamically, which means we're sliding it along the skin. And again, it is really just addressing the fascia and the muscle that is really stuck or tight. I do think that there is a certain level of blood flow and enhancement that the cupping offers that the tape kind of like,

is a compliment too. So they're very complimentary of one or the other. Some people can get away. They just do the tape. It works perfect. They're great. Usually that's if they're a little bit younger, but usually the cupping is also going to just kind of give you that bump to the next level of results because it is a little bit

stronger, a little bit more aggressive of a modality that's going to get into those spots where the muscle, you know, like right in here, this is a really common place for people who kind of like do this a lot or they're like holding their lip, like whatever it is, people who hold tension in this mouth lip area. And so, you know, really being able to get the cup in there and like dig and get that tension out. Mm.

is important for people, like I was saying, who maybe are a little bit older, their skin has already started to lose some elasticity, or they just have tons of facial tension, again, for any number of reasons, trauma, holding your face weird, whatever it is. So I just found that those two, when paired together, just, I like to say that like the cupping really sets you up for success. And then the taping locks in results is kind of how I look at it.

Amazing. Yeah, I love coupling those. And just quickly for people, you recommend...

obviously depending on your skin type, but two days on for taping one day off generally. It's very different. And it depends on the level of tape you're using. So in the radical or in the, um, radiance rebel shop online, it has the three different levels of tape. And so there are a lot of just kind of like, again, bio individualities with this and the guy does break down. And I always say like, you know, if you have anatomy issues,

training, then go ahead and try to tape on your own. But, you know, if you can't tell me where the insertion and the origin of the muscle is, you probably should be following directions. But the guide really was created to make sure that all of these small bioindividualities are covered and addressed for when someone, you know, says, you know,

you know, this two days on, one day off isn't working, but three days on and one day off is working. So again, there are kind of like blanket statements that work for most people, but inside the guide, I teach you how to understand where your skin is at and to apply it

in a safe, effective manner to get your best results. And so, yes, there are schedule suggestions, how to pair the different applications together, right? So knowing like you can do this forehead application and mix it with this one, but not with this one because there's two different types of applications. There's a drainage or like a lymph application, and then there's a smoothing application. And you don't want to do a smoothing application underneath a lymph application because then the lymph will just get stuck.

where that kind of like smoothing application is underneath. So I teach you how to pair the right applications in the right part of the face to really like optimize results and make sure nothing's getting stuck, right? Like we don't want the lymph to get stuck in the eyes or stuck in the jowls. We want to make sure it drains all the way down to, you know, the collarbone to the big lymph nodes there. Yeah, I'm becoming, I would say I'm,

I would say I'm intermediate right now. I'm not doing any advanced taping. We're getting there. I'm really excited for people to try this. So the last few minutes, can we quickfire some like internal things? So drinking hyaluronic acid, what does that look like? I feel like that's kind of a buzzy thing. I was like, wait, how do I get that? I did get my...

My bio cell, um, bio cell. Yeah. Um,

Yeah. What else? What do we need to be drinking, eating that you feel like is going to really help? Yeah. Some of the big hitters are definitely drinking hyaluronic acid. You can get it from more vegetarian or vegan from something called tremella. It's a mushroom. It acts very similar to hyaluronic acid in that it attracts water. So it's a humectant. There are more naturally occurring hyaluronic acid that usually comes from animals. I don't usually suggest salmonella.

synthetic internal hyaluronic acid since it's from fermented bacteria. I don't want it to impact your gut microbiome. So those are kind of the two big heavy hitters. And when you use internal hyaluronic acid instead of topical, it's actually able to get to the place in your skin where the hyaluronic acid is stored, which is deep down in the dermis. And that's something that topical hyaluronic acid can't reach because it just can't penetrate all the way through to those lower levels. Got it. And

And your hyaluronic acid, I always tell people to think of like hyaluronic acid as collagen sidekick. And collagen really needs the hyaluronic acid to hydrate the molecules to make sure that it can stay and stick and stay strong in the places that we want it to kind of get to. Yeah.

Obviously, like I said earlier, collagen supplementation is important, but doing those practices that protect your collagen, which is also things like eating really high quality meat. Anytime someone comes to me and is saying like, my under eyes are hollow or my skin is thin or anything like that, I always tell them, eat grass fed and finished ground beef once a day for the next six months. And let's see where you're at, right? Just because

The composition of nutrients and protein and bioavailability of that specific high quality meat can drastically change the quality of your tissue, like the actual skin tissue, the skin cells, like the way the protein and the extracellular matrix like interact with each other. It just is drastic. So that's one of the things I will always tell people. What's one of the other ones?

Those are the two big ones for sure. Those are the big, biggies that will make drastic change. And then obviously just get the high sugar, like high roller coaster. There's something called glycation, which is something that happens in the skin cells over time when you have super high blood sugar levels.

sugar levels that spike and then plummet and then spike and then plummet, something happens in the skin called glycation. And it really not only eats away at your collagen, but also just breaks down the skin cells. And a lot of times people will just see like their skin looks very like dull, saggy, lifeless, like all of that stuff. So if you can get off the blood sugar rollercoaster...

It's going to be those three things will have someone looking completely different in six months if they did nothing else than just those three things. Yeah. Our friend, Jesse, the glucose goddess talks about glycation a lot. I love that. I'll have to listen. She's amazing. She's really very simple, helpful hacks for that. Okay. Those were, that's powerful. I completely agree. I

I was vegan for a hot second when I lived in LA, as you do when you live in LA. I felt absolutely terrible. No shade to vegans. But like for me, I mean, my animal protein intake is, especially since I got pregnant, has been really high and has made me feel so much better and made me look, I think, my skin so much better. So just...

kind of a testimony to that, that piece. Um, I could talk to you for hours and I've, um, we'll continue this for sure, but this has been so informative, such a great jumping off point for people to start thinking about what they are using, doing for their skin. And I think more importantly, just the relationship with their skin. You know, I've,

I'm here in New York, you know, and sometimes when I like walk, walk the streets and I'm like looking at myself in windows, LOL, but I'm really in this practice of like loving the skin that I'm in. And, you know, there are days when I'm like a little dehydrated. I see my wrinkles. There are days when I'm just, you know, I've been up all night with my son and I'm like, Ooh, Lord. But I really want to,

I want to love my skin, you know, no matter what, and just commit to it being as healthy as possible. And you've really helped me do that and continue to do that. So thank you for your work in the world and your products are incredible. So we'll link everything in the show notes. We'll mention it in the intro as well. But I appreciate you, Catherine. This has been so, so fun. It's my pleasure. And I always say when you're looking in the mirror, look for the good. It's so easy to look for the bad. It's so easy to look for the parts that are

fall under judgment, but look for the good. And if you're having trouble looking for the good in yourself, look for it in your kids because they have your features and their features are beautiful just like yours are. I know. They're so sweet. Oh my goodness. All right. Well, I adore you. I appreciate you. And yeah, everybody, thanks for listening. We'll see you on the next one.

Thank you so much, Catherine. We appreciate you. You can follow Catherine on Instagram at Catherine underscore Romine and all of her. Her shop is linked there. All of her guides, face tapes.

Um, et cetera. So enjoy. If you're someone who's looking to just kind of rethink how you treat your skin, this is one for you. Yeah. We love you guys. We're so grateful to everyone that's pre-ordered the book, the almost 30 book, which is out now we have pre-order incentives, like a 70 page Saturn return guide.

that's specific to you and where Saturn is in your chart. We also have our Almost 30 camp, which is like the best event of the year free when you purchase the book. And then we have for people that purchase two books, we have a masterclass that Lindsay and I recorded that is so fire. We are so excited for you to get it. So almost30.com slash book. And then Morning Microdose is our second show. It's like a clips channel. It's ad free. It has the best of the best on Almost 30. Almost 30 podcast on TikTok and Instagram and YouTube.

My name is Krista. This is Lindsay, and we'll see you on the other side. Bye. Bye.